EP25:Deep Into - Four Thousand Weeks
28:20 Share

Hey everyone and welcome to our deep dive into a 4,000 weeks time management for mortals. Yeah. Now I know what you might be thinking, another time management book. Right. But seriously, trust me on this one. Oh yeah. This is...

Very different. Oliver Berkman, he kind of throws out all the usual productivity hacks and instead he like dives deep into what it really means to manage our time. Yeah. And our finite time. It is finite, isn't it? And we have to embrace our limitations and really focus on what matters, you know, when you're facing eternity. Yeah. Which is a long time. It's a long time. Yeah. That's right. And it's less about like, you

you know, how can I fit more into my day? Right. It's more about how can I be okay with the fact that I can't do it all? Mm-hmm. You know, and the book is split into two parts. Yeah. Choosing to choose and beyond control. I love that. I love them both. And they each tackle these ideas from different angles. Yeah. And, you know, just some of the chapter titles like The Efficiency Trap. Ooh.

Becoming a better procrastinator. Yeah. Cosmic insignificance therapy. I love that. You know, it just, they really made you think. They really do. Yeah. And that's what we're here to do today to unpack is like give you a shortcut to the book's arguments, evidence. Yes. Without, you know, getting bogged down. Too much in the weeds. Yeah. We're going to highlight those key takeaways, those little actionable insights. Yes. So you can get a real feel for Berkman's message. Right. And maybe even shift your perspective on how you approach time. Right. Yeah.

That's the idea. You know, your 4,000 weeks. 4,000 weeks, yeah. Speaking of which, that number really hits home, doesn't it? It really does. It's kind of startling to think like, oh, the average lifespan boils down to just 4,000 weeks. Whoa. It makes you really wonder what we're doing with all that time. Yeah, what are we doing? You know, Berkman, he's this great example of a BuzzFeed video where they wrapped rubber bands around a watermelon until it burst. Oh, God. And-

Millions of people watch this. I bet. It seems so trivial, but I don't know. I think it perfectly illustrates how easily we get sidetracked by these things that ultimately don't matter. Right. They're not really moving the needle in our lives. Right. Yeah, it's like the watermelon problem, you know, this shiny, immediate thing. Right. Just it catches your eye, and suddenly all your long-term goals and values, they just kind of fade. Yeah, they go away. And this leads us right into what Berkman calls the efficiency trap. Ooh.

It's this obsession that we all have, you know. I think we do. With productivity. Yes. And we're bombarded with all these tips and tricks, how to fit more into every minute. But he argues that this striving for efficiency can backfire. I agree. And actually leave us busier.

But not necessarily more fulfilled. Right. You know. We've all been there. We all have. Yeah. It's like this never ending quest for inbox zero. Oh yeah. Like you finally clear it out. You feel so accomplished. Yeah. And then boom. It's full again. It's full. It's instantly flooded. Right. With new emails and the goalposts just keep shifting. I hate that goalpost shift. It leaves us chasing this elusive sense of control. It really is elusive isn't it? Yeah.

Yeah. And it's that constant striving, always looking to the next thing keeps us from being present in what we're doing right now. And speaking of elusive control, Berkman tackles this concept of procrastination in a way that I found really intriguing. I'm intrigued. I'm intrigued.

He argues that it can actually be a sign of us prioritizing the meaningful tasks over the urgent ones. Interesting. So it's not necessarily about being lazy or avoiding work altogether. I see. It's more about understanding why we're putting something off. The why, right. Is it just tedious? Yeah. Is there something deeper there? Deeper. Is it possible that what we're truly procrastinating on is something that doesn't align with our values or goals? Oh, that's good.

So it refers it as a form of discernment. I like that. Yeah, it's like filtering out the noise to focus on what truly resonates. I loved it. That's a good way to look at it. Yeah. And it makes me wonder, are the things I'm putting off even worth doing in the first place? Right. Exactly. But speaking of things we can't control. Okay. Berkman digs into this idea of the illusion of control.

And he uses Hofstadter's Law to illustrate this point. Oh, yeah. Hofstadter's Law. Tell me about it. It states that things always take longer than we expect. Yes, they do. Even when we account for that tendency. Always. Always. It's so true. Like when you plan a project, you think, oh, it'll take a week and then it stretches into two weeks or even longer. Or longer. And a classic example, the Tidney Opera House. Oh, tell me. Initially, it was supposed to take four years to build.

Four years. It ended up taking 14. What? 14? Oh my gosh. So then what's the point of planning? Right. If things are just going to take longer than expected. I know. Well, he's not saying we should abandon planning. Okay. It's more about acknowledging its limitations. Right. You know, and accepting the uncertainty that comes with life. The uncertainty. Things will go wrong. Deadlines will shift. Right. Unexpected challenges will arise. And embracing that reality rather than fighting it

can be really freeing. Freeing, yeah. It's like surrendering to the flow of time instead of trying to, I don't know. Damn it up. Damn it up. Yes, exactly. And this idea of embracing discomfort rather than resisting it is a major theme in the book. It is. And Berkman shares a really powerful anecdote. Oh, I love those. About Shinsen Young. Okay. He's a meditation teacher.

who underwent this intense training in the key mountains of Japan. I've heard of this. And part of his training involved sitting outside in the freezing cold. Oh, no. And instead of resisting the discomfort, he learned to lean into it and accept it as part of the experience. Interesting. And I know it sounds brutal. It does. But the lesson here is that

Our suffering is often amplified by our resistance to it. Resisting, yeah. And in modern life, we have so many ways to distract ourselves from anything unpleasant. Oh, so many. Social media, streaming services. Yes. You know, just keeping ourselves constantly busy. Go, go, go, go. It's all a way of running from that discomfort. I see. But Berkman argues that this avoidance is actually a form of running from our own fititude. Oh.

Wow. That uncomfortable reality of our limited time. Right. And control. Wow. So it's not just about, you know, avoiding these boring tasks or unpleasant emotions, but bigger questions about our own mortality. Exactly. Yeah. And that avoidance keeps us from fully engaging with our lives and appreciating the time we have. Right. That's deep. It really is. And it makes you realize how much energy we waste.

trying to escape the inevitable right so if we're always trying to distract ourselves from that reality yeah of our limited time how can we ever hope to find freedom good question it's a good one and it leads us into another paradox oh I love paradox that Berkman explores okay of paradox of modern freedom hmm you know we have flexible work arrangements yeah technology seemingly more control over our schedules than ever more control but but

But it can actually lead to isolation and a lack of shared rhythms. Right. So less connection with people. Yeah. I've heard stories about digital nomads. Yeah. Who have the freedom to travel the world but often struggle with loneliness. Despite being around other people. Exactly. They're constantly moving disconnected from any real community. Right. Yeah. And it's not just about physical location. It's about those shared experience. Experiences. Yeah. And Berkman mentions a study from Sweden. Oh a study. I love those.

I know, right? That found that people were happiest on vacation when everyone was on vacation. Okay. So when individuals had flexible vacation time, they often felt out of sync. Interesting. With their families and communities. Yeah. And it actually decreased their happiness. I see. So it highlights this importance of shared rhythms, of being in sync with the people around us.

Yeah. So even with all this flexibility and freedom, we're out of sync with the people we care about. Right. We're all running on these individual timelines. Yeah. Our own little schedules. Constantly juggling work, family, commitment, goals. Right. Are we truly free if our individual choices lead to collective isolation? Right. Maybe true freedom is less about controlling our schedules and more about finding ways to connect with others. Yeah. Create those shared experiences. That's really good. Yeah. And it leads us into one of the most thought-provoking

concepts. Ooh, I love it. In the book, Cosmic Insignificance Therapy. Wait, what is that? So imagine this. You're soaring high above the Midwest. Okay, I'm there. Looking down at the vast expanse of fields and towns below. I'm seeing it. And it hits you. Your problems, your worries, your ambitions, they all seem so small. Right. That's the essence of Cosmic Insignificance Therapy. Okay. Reframing those anxieties by acknowledging the vastness of the universe. Right.

And the relative insignificance of our own lives. Oh, wow. So it's about zooming out and realizing our problems, while real, are pretty minuscule. Minuscule. In the grand scheme of things. That's a good point. It reminds me of that pale blue dot photo. Oh, yeah. I love that photo. Of Earth taken from Voyager 1. It's amazing. I know. It puts things in perspective. It does. It's about shifting our perspective and recognizing we are but tiny specks in this universe.

this vast universe. Right. And so it's not about nihilism. No. It's not apathy. No. It's about freeing ourselves from that pressure to be remarkable. To be remarkable. Yeah. You know, he argues this realization can actually be

incredibly liberating. Yeah. It allows us to focus on finding meaning in the everyday moments. Yes. The connections we make. Yes. The simple act of living. Yes. Rather than, you know, striving for some grand legacy. It's about letting go of that pressure. Yeah. To leave a mark. Leave a mark. And instead, focus on making the most of the time we have. The time that we have. It's like permission to be perfectly ordinary. I like that. And find joy in the simple things. Oh, that's good. And that brings us to another...

seemingly paradoxical concept. Okay, hit me. Going beyond hope. Beyond hope? That sounds kind of sad. Oh, but before you think this is all getting too gloomy, hear me out. Okay. He argues that hope...

while seemingly positive, can actually be paralyzing. - How is hope paralyzing? - Well, when we're caught up in hope, we often become passive, placing our faith in some future outcome or an external force to change things. - Oh, I see. - It's like waiting for someone else to come along and fix everything instead of taking action ourselves. - So instead of hoping things will get better, we should focus on what we can do to make them better. - Yeah, exactly. - Like that. - And he references this environmental activist

Barak Jensen, who believes that letting go of hope can be incredibly empowering. Because when we abandon hope, we're forced to confront reality.

And take responsibility for our actions. Take responsibility. It's like ripping off the band-aid. Oh. Facing the truth head on. Right. Even if it's uncomfortable. Even if it's uncomfortable. Yeah. And once we do that. Yeah. We can start to make real change. Real change. Even if it's just in our own small corner of the world. I see. Yeah. And it brings us back to this core concept. Oh.

Of time management in a chaotic world. Right. Because even when it feels like everything is spinning. Yeah. Out of control. Out of control. We still have a choice. We do. And how we spend our time. We always have a choice. We always have a choice. It's powerful. Even if it doesn't feel like it. Right. And how we choose to spend our time. How we prioritize those tasks and commitments. Yeah.

It's a direct reflection. It is. Of our values and priorities. So we're taking ownership of our 4,000 weeks. Yes. Making conscious choices. Yes. It's about making those conscious choices. That's great. About how we want to live them. I know this is good. This is all really insightful, but it's also kind of daunting. It is a little daunting. You know, if we're not supposed to be mastering time, cleaning to hope, what are we supposed to be doing with our 4,000 weeks? Right. What's the alternative?

Good question. It's a good question. It is. And it's something Berkman addresses directly. He suggests we focus on what he calls the next most necessary thing. Okay, the next most necessary thing. What's that? So it's about being present. Okay. Paying attention to what's right in front of us. Oh. The task at hand. Right. The conversation. Yes. The experience that's calling for our attention in this moment. I like that.

It's about letting go of the need to control the future. Okay. And instead focusing on being fully engaged. Right. In the present moment. Yeah. So it's like a more mindful approach to life. Yeah. Embrace those limitations. Yeah. But also the possibilities of our finite time. Exactly. Instead of looking to what's next. Mm-hmm.

Find joy and meaning right now. Yes. And this reminds me of those 10 tools for embracing your finitude. Yes. In the appendix. In the appendix. Are those. Yes. Tips and techniques. Texts and techniques. Designed to help us live more in the present moment. Exactly.

Focus on what matters. Exactly. That's great. He provides really practical advice. He does. Like identifying your intimate interrupter. Your what? It's that inner voice. Oh, yeah. That's always urging you to check your phone. Oh, sick. Scroll through social media. Distract yourself from the task at hand. Oh, I know that voice well. We all do. I do. And once you become aware of that voice. Yeah. You can recognize the patterns.

patterns. Right. Make conscious choices. Yeah. About where you direct your attention. Yeah. So it's about being aware of those self-sabotaging tendencies and finding ways to overcome them. Yes. And another one of his tools. OK. Is radical incrementalism. Radical incrementalism. Instead of getting caught up in that hustle. Oh the hustle. Striving for that massive

Overnight success. Yeah, we all want that. He encourages us to focus on making that slow and steady progress. Right, slow and steady. Focusing on the process, taking those small steps consistently. Little by little. Rather than those giant leaps forward. Yeah. Celebrate those small wins.

and trust that they will add up to something meaningful. - It's a good point because it's easy to get caught up comparing ourselves to others, feeling like we're not doing enough, not moving fast enough, but if we can just focus on those small little steps, it takes the pressure off. You can enjoy the journey more. - Exactly, yeah. - It's about enjoying the process. - It is. - It's not just the outcome. - Yes, and that ties in so nicely with this idea of embracing the provisional life.

Instead of waiting for that idealized future. Yeah. When everything is going to be perfect. Yeah. We can find meaning and purpose right now. Right now. The present moment. Right. Amidst the mess. Amidst the mess. The uncertainty. Yeah. It's about accepting that life is messy. It is. And that's okay. Yeah. It's about finding beauty in those imperfections. I like that. Embracing the unexpected detours along the way. The detours. Yeah. It's about letting go of...

The need to control everything. Right. And just surrendering to the flow. Surrendering, yeah. To the flow of life. Yeah, that's nice. And recognizing there is no perfect time to start living. I like that. The time is now. Now. This moment. Right here, right now. It's all we've got. It's all we've got. Yeah. And it's more than enough. More than enough. Yeah. It really is. And, you know...

All this talk about embracing the present moment might seem a bit abstract. Right. But Berkman gives some really practical advice for how to actually do that. Yeah, that's great because I was just thinking it would be helpful to have some more concrete examples. Yeah. What are some of the strategies he suggests? One of my favorites is what he calls paying yourself first. Okay. But instead of with money, you're paying yourself with time. Okay.

Okay, so instead of waiting until the end of the day or week to do the things that truly matter to you You schedule them in first. Okay, make them non-negotiable right whether it's spending time with loved ones pursuing a creative hobby or Just taking some time for yourself to relax and recharge. Yeah prioritize those activities as if there were the most important appointments on your calendar I love that analogy. Yeah, it's like making a deposit into your well-being account and

before you start paying out to all your other obligations. - Exactly, it's a way of ensuring that you're not constantly sacrificing the things that truly matter to you on the alter of busyness and obligation. - Right. - Another strategy Berkman suggests is something he calls strategic underachievement. - Okay. - Now before you think he's advocating for mediocrity,

Hear me out. Okay, I'm intrigued. What does strategic underachievement actually mean? It's about accepting that you can't do everything and making a conscious decision to focus on a few key areas where you want to excel. Okay. It's about being okay with letting go of the need to be good at everything and instead focusing your energy on the things that truly align with your values and goals. So it's kind of like choosing your battles. Yeah. Deciding where you want to put your energy and effort.

And accepting that you can't be all things to all people. Exactly. It's about giving yourself permission to say no to things that don't align with your priorities, even if it means disappointing others or appearing less successful in the traditional sense. Right. Berkman argues that this can actually lead to a more fulfilling and meaningful life because you're focusing your energy on the things that truly matter to you.

That makes a lot of sense. It's about defining success on your own terms rather than letting society dictate what success should look like. Right. And it reminds me of that famous quote, the difference between ordinary and extraordinary is that little extra. Oh, yeah. By strategically underachieving in some areas, we can free up time and energy to put that little extra into the things that we're truly passionate about. Right.

And that brings us back to this idea of embracing our limitations. Yeah. Berkman spends a lot of time in the book exploring this concept. And I'm curious to hear your thoughts on why it's such a crucial part of managing our time effectively. Well, I think one of the reasons why we struggle so much with time management is that we have this illusion that we can somehow control time. Right. That we can bend it to our will. But the reality is time is not a thing.

time is a force of nature. It marches on relentlessly regardless of our plans or intentions. It does. And when we try to control it,

to squeeze more and more into every minute, we often end up feeling overwhelmed, stressed, and ultimately unfulfilled. It's like trying to hold back the tide with a broom. Yeah. It's a futile effort that only leaves us feeling exhausted and defeated. Exactly. But when we embrace our limitations, when we accept that we can't do everything and that our time is finite, it can actually be incredibly liberating.

It allows us to let go of the pressure to be perfect, to achieve everything, to be constantly busy and productive. It allows us to focus on the things that truly matter and to savor the present moment without constantly worrying about what's next. It's like giving ourselves permission to be human, to accept our imperfections, and to appreciate the beauty of our own unique journey. Yeah, I love that. And speaking of journeys, Berkman uses this beautiful metaphor of life

as a pilgrimage, which I found really resonated with me. Oh, yeah, the pilgrimage metaphor is so powerful. Yeah. He talks about how in medieval times people would go on pilgrimages to holy sites, and these journeys were often long and arduous, filled with challenges and setbacks. Yeah, it wasn't about getting to the destination as quickly or efficiently as possible. Right. It was about the journey itself, about the lessons learned.

And the experiences had along the way. Exactly. And I think that's a really beautiful way to think about life. It's not about racing towards some finish line or achieving some arbitrary definition of success. It's about savoring each step of the journey, embracing the ups and downs and finding meaning and purpose in the present moment.

It's about letting go of the need to control everything and instead trusting that the path will unfold as it's meant to, even if it takes some unexpected turns along the way. Exactly. And, you know, this idea of trusting the journey ties in nicely with another concept that Berkman explores the importance of

cultivating a sense of patience. In our fast-paced, instant gratification culture, patience is often seen as a weakness. But Berkman argues that it's actually a superpower. Patience as a superpower. I love that. It's so counterintuitive in a world that's constantly telling us to hustle, to strive to achieve more, faster, better. I know, right? But think about it. Patience allows us to stay

calm and centered in the midst of chaos. It allows us to persevere through challenges and setbacks. Right. It allows us to appreciate the beauty of slow, steady progress. And it allows us to savor the present moment without constantly yearning for what's next.

It's like that saying, good things come to those who wait. Yeah. But it's not just about passively waiting. It's about actively engaging with the present moment, trusting the process, and knowing that the things that are meant for us will come in their own time. That's beautifully said. And, you know, this idea of patience also relates to Berkman's discussion of the default mode network. Have you heard of that?

Vaguely. I know it has something to do with the way our brains work. Exactly. It's a network of brain regions that becomes active when we're not focused on a specific task when our minds are wandering. Okay. And it's often associated with negative thoughts and feelings like worry, anxiety, and self-criticism. Oh, so it's that voice in our heads that's constantly telling us we're not good enough, not doing enough, not being enough. That's the one. And Berkman argues that one of the reasons why we're so drawn to distractions and busyness is

is that it allows us to escape the discomfort of our own thoughts and feelings. When we're constantly occupied, we don't have to confront the existential anxieties and uncertainties that inevitably arise when our minds are allowed to wander. - So we're basically trying to outrun our own brains. It's no wonder we feel so exhausted all the time. - Right, but Berkman suggests that instead of trying to silence or escape our default mode network,

We can learn to befriend it, to cultivate a more compassionate and accepting relationship with our own thoughts and feelings. How do we do that? That sounds a lot easier said than done. It starts with simply becoming aware of our thoughts and feelings without judgment.

OK. Practices like meditation and mindfulness can be really helpful for cultivating this kind of awareness. Right. And then once we become more aware of our own mental chatter, we can start to challenge the negative thoughts and beliefs that are holding us back. So it's about recognizing that our thoughts are not facts. They're just thoughts.

And we have the power to choose which thoughts we want to believe and which ones we want to let go of. Exactly. And when we can do that and we can cultivate a more compassionate and accepting relationship with our own minds, it frees us up to be more present, more engaged and more fully alive in each moment. That's so powerful. It's like taking back control of our own internal dialogue and choosing to focus on

thoughts that are empowering and life-affirming rather than thoughts that are limiting and self-defeating. It's about recognizing that our minds are incredibly powerful tools and we can choose to use them to create a more fulfilling and meaningful life for ourselves. So if we can learn to defend our default mode network and cultivate a sense of patience,

It sounds like we're well on our way to embracing our limitations and managing our time more effectively. But what about all the external pressures and demands that we face on a daily basis? How do we deal with those? That's a great question. And it brings us to one of the most challenging but also most rewarding aspects of Berkman's message, the importance of setting boundaries. Ooh, boundaries.

In a world that's constantly demanding our time and attention, it's essential to learn how to say no to things that don't align with our values and priorities. Yeah, I think that's something a lot of people struggle with. Yeah. It's so easy to get caught up in the fear of disappointing others or missing out on opportunities. It is. But if we're not careful, we can end up

overcommitted and overwhelmed with no time or energy left for the things that truly matter. Exactly. And Berkman emphasizes that setting boundaries is not about being selfish or uncaring. It's about protecting our time and energy so that we can show up fully for the things that are most important to us. It's about recognizing that we can't be everything to everyone, and that's okay. It's about giving ourselves permission

to prioritize our own well-being and to create a life that feels authentic and aligned with our values. That's a great way to put it. And it's not always easy, but it's essential for living a more fulfilling and meaningful life. Berkman offers some really helpful advice for how to set boundaries effectively, like

starting small, being clear and direct in your communication, and not feeling obligated to explain or justify your decisions. That's really helpful. It's about learning to value our own time and energy as much as we value the time and energy of others. Yes. And it's about recognizing that our time is a precious resource that should be used wisely and intentionally. Exactly. It's about taking ownership of our 4,000 weeks

and making conscious choices about how we want to spend them. So if we can learn to embrace our limitations, cultivate patience, befriend our default mode network, and set healthy boundaries,

It sounds like we're well on our way to masking the art of time management. I think you're right, but I would say it's not so much about mastering time as it is about making peace with it. It's about recognizing that time is a gift, not a burden. Right. And it's about using that gift wisely, intentionally, and with a sense of gratitude for each and every moment. Yeah, it's about shifting our perspective from seeing time as something to be conquered to something to be cherished.

I like that. And speaking of cherishing time, Berkman also talks about the importance of embracing our mortality. Oh, wow. Which seems like a rather counterintuitive approach to time management. Right. How do we embrace mortality? Well, it might seem that way at first. Yeah. But when you really think about it, acknowledging our mortality can actually be incredibly motivating. Oh, interesting. Because when we're constantly reminded of our limited time. Right.

It forces us to confront the question of what truly matters and make choices that align with our values. Our values, yeah. It's like that saying, live each day as if it were your last. Oh, yeah. Not in a reckless or hedonistic way. No. But in a way that makes you appreciate the preciousness of each moment. Yeah. And each moment.

inspires you to make the most of it. Make the most of it, right. Exactly. It's about embracing the present moment. Yes. Living with that sense of urgency and purpose. Urgency and purpose. Knowing that our time is limited and we don't want to waste it. We don't. We don't. On things that don't truly matter. That's right. It's about making everything

Every moment count. Yeah. Not in a frantic way. Right. Not stressful. Right. Yeah. But just in a way that allows us to savor the beauty and richness of life. Yes. Even in the midst of the ordinary. That's right. Yeah. And, you know, one of the things I found most inspiring about this book. Yeah. Is that it's not just about individual time management. Okay. It's also about how we can use our time. Yes.

To make a positive impact on the world. I love that. Yes, absolutely. He talks about the importance of finding our own unique contribution. Yeah. You know, our way of making the world a slightly better place. A better place, right? It's not about these grand gestures or heroic feet. It's the little thing. It is. It's about finding those small ways. Right.

To use our skills, talents, and passions to make a difference in the lives of others. Even in small ways. Even in small ways. It's powerful. Yeah. It's about recognizing that we all have something to offer. We do.

Something unique and valuable. Yeah. That we can contribute to the collective good. The collector's good. And that even small acts of kindness. Yes. Generosity and compassion. Mm-hmm. Can have this ripple effect. A ripple effect. Yeah. That extends far beyond ourselves. I love that. It's about shifting our focus from what's in it for me. Yes. To what's in it for me.

"How can I make a difference?" - Exactly. - And that is so empowering and fulfilling. - It is. - It allows us to connect with something larger than ourselves and find that purpose and meaning. - It's about recognizing that we're all interconnected. - We are. - Our actions have consequences. - Right. - And we have a responsibility to use our time wisely. - Wisely, yeah. - And to make choices that contribute to a more just, compassionate, and sustainable world. - That's beautiful. I think that's a great way to sum it. - It is.

It's about recognizing that our time here is precious. We can't do everything. Right. But we can choose to focus on what matters most. What matters most.

And that choice, that act of conscious and intentional living. Yes. Is ultimately what makes all the difference. That is a powerful message to end on. It is. So to all our listeners out there, what will you do with your 4,000 weeks? Yeah. What choices will you make? What impact will you have? It's up to you. The time is now. Let's make it count. Absolutely. Embrace your limitations. Focus on what truly matters and make the most of every precious moment. You've got this.