Shownotes Transcript
Have you ever like been in a conversation and it just feels like everyone's speaking a totally different language? Yeah. Or maybe you walk away and you're like, did I even connect with anyone? I think we've all been there. It's so common. Yeah. Like it's a really frustrating feeling, right? Absolutely. So today we are diving deep into the next conversation.
Oh, I love this book. Yeah, you shared this one with us. And honestly, it's full of these like really cool insights on communicating better. Not just like effectively, but like, you know, actually building those connections in every part of your life, right? Like work, personal life, everything. Yeah. And it emphasizes those small changes that you can make that lead to big differences over time. It's about progress, not failure.
perfection. I love that. So, okay, this deep dive, just to be clear for everybody listening, it's coming straight from Fisher's book, The Next Conversation. Yeah. Which, by the way, just came out this week. So it's hot off the press. Brand new. And we're going to be unpacking some of the most powerful strategies from it, like actionable stuff. Yeah. Not just theories, but like, here's what you can do. Exactly. And what I think is so great about the book is that it really breaks down this concept of functional thinking when it comes to communication. And
And that might sound a little complicated, but really it's just about cause and effect. Like if you do A, it's going to lead to B. Understanding that relationship is key. It's all about intentionality. Like if you're going into a conversation with a specific goal in mind and you use the right tools,
you're way more likely to achieve that outcome. Totally. And for you, the learner, that's the whole mission here, helping you guys understand these tools and techniques so that you can walk into any conversation feeling way more confident and clear about what you want to say. And what I think is so interesting about Fisher's approach, it's not just about what you say, it's how you say it. A huge difference. Yeah. He really focuses on authenticity and empathy, like coming from a place of genuine connection, not just trying to win an argument or something. You know, and he makes the really crucial point that
that facts, those are transmitted. You can send an email or a text.
But understanding and empathy, that's how you connect on a deeper level. Right. And what makes his perspective even more fascinating is like his background, right? He's a trial lawyer. Yeah. He learned about communication in the trenches. Exactly. Like high pressure situations. He dealt with everything from, you know, sibling squabbles to courtroom battles to even like an unexpected viral social media journey. And that actually like led to the book, which is crazy. This was a cool story. I know.
So, okay, let's jump into this whole idea of the next conversation. I'm really intrigued by this. Well, this is where he challenges this whole idea of arguments and the way we often approach them. The need to win, right? Exactly. Like it's so ingrained in us to try and win arguments, be right, prove the other person wrong. But Fisher says, what if we shift our focus completely? Instead of trying to win, we aim for understanding and genuine connection. That's the real win. He talks about this guy, Bobby LaPre,
Really intense story. Bobby walked into a room just furious, ready to explode. Oh, wow. And Fisher's on the receiving end of it all. Now, most people, right, would probably get defensive or fire back. But Fisher did something completely different. What did he do? He simply asked Bobby, what's been your biggest struggle this year?
And that simple question, it completely changed the dynamic. Bobby opened up about these really deep personal challenges he'd been facing and that anger, it just dissipated. That's incredible. Just by asking about his struggles, he bypassed all that immediate anger and connected on a human level. It shows that conflict often stems from deeper issues, from things we're not saying. It's not always about the surface level disagreement, right? And that story is right there in chapter 10, if anyone wants to check it out, but it
perfectly illustrates a key concept from the book. Focus on progress in the next conversation, not necessarily solving everything right now in this one. And that's chapter 11, such a practical approach because not every conflict can be resolved in a single conversation. And by acknowledging that, you take the pressure off.
You're setting these smaller achievable goals like truly listening to their perspective, acknowledging their feelings, even if you don't agree with them. You're not aiming for a complete resolution. You're just aiming for progress. A long game, right? Like building trust over time. Exactly. And it's about focusing on those little steps forward. And he also talks about values like kindness and honesty being the foundation for these interactions.
So it's not just about having an outcome in mind. It's about how you get there. Absolutely. It's about approaching every conversation with integrity, with a sense of respect and a genuine desire to connect, even when it's hard. Which brings us to a really key point that he makes the difference between transmission and connection. This is Chapter 12, right? Where he talks about how we often mistake communication.
Just exchanging information for actual human connection. Exactly. And I think we've all fallen into this trap, especially with digital communication, right? You can fire off a text or an email. You've conveyed the information. But have you actually connected? There's no nuance. Exactly. He gives this example of a text exchange with his mom about an old car and how the tone was completely misconstrued.
Because, you know, text is just words on a screen. It lacks those vocal cues, those subtle expressions that convey so much meaning. And I think that's something we've all experienced, right? Like a simple text can turn into a huge misunderstanding because you're missing that emotional context. Absolutely. And connection, as he defines it, is about trust.
truly understanding and acknowledging another person's experience, even if you don't agree with them. He actually quotes his father who said, you don't have to like it, you just need to understand it. That's really profound. It's about validating their reality without necessarily endorsing their actions or beliefs. Exactly. It's about seeing things from their point of view. And he pinpoints these three common ways that we block connections.
Lack of self-awareness, lack of understanding and lack of self-assurance. Right. Lack of awareness means we're not even aware of how our communication style is affecting others. Then there's lack of understanding where we're so focused on our own perspective, we don't even try to see things from their side.
And then, of course, there's that lack of self-assurance. Which I think a lot of us struggle with, right? Like not wanting to rock the boat so we kind of water down our words or we over-apologize. That's right. We hesitate to really own our voice and speak our truth. And that fear, it prevents us from fully connecting.
But the good news is Fisher offers a way to overcome these obstacles. He introduces this three-step function for building connection. Okay, lay it on us. What's the secret sauce? He says, say it with control, say it with confidence, and say it to connect. But what does it actually refer to? It refers to your views, your needs, and your truth.
So being authentically you, but in a way that fosters connection, not conflict. Exactly. And to understand how this works, he uses this idea of functional thinking, which sounds really academic. Yeah, a little bit. But he makes it super relatable. He's like, think of a coffee maker. You put in coffee grounds and water. That's your input. And what do you get? Coffee. Right. Or think of your grandma's famous cake recipe. You follow the steps. You use the right ingredients. You're going to get a delicious cake.
That's functional thinking. So it's basically understanding the process that leads to the outcome you want. In this case, connection. Exactly. So the first step or rule, as he calls it, is say it with control. And this is all about intentionality, right? Being mindful of how you're expressing yourself. Yeah. Like taking a moment to pause, reflect and respond thoughtfully instead of just reacting on impulse. That's key.
Because, like he says, every conversation sets the stage for the next one. It's all connected. Exactly. If you lose your cool, that can damage the relationship and make future conversations even harder. Control is about building that foundation of respect and trust. And he also talks about silence, right? The power of silence. Yes.
It's not just about talking. Sometimes the most powerful thing you can do is just be quiet. It gives you time to think and it also signals to the other person that you're truly listening. That's a good reminder. So we've talked about control in general, but what about those really heated moments when things start to escalate? How do we stay in control then? Well, chapter 15 gets into that. He talks about arguments having these two phases, an ignition phase and cooling phase. Ignition is like when things are heating up.
Emotions are running high. Tempers flaring. Yeah, it's like a fire has been lit. And then cooling is when things start to calm down. You can think more rationally again. He uses this great example of Grace and John arguing about their daughter's bedtime. Oh, yeah, the bedtime battle. Every parent knows that one. Totally. But the key is understanding that both of them are getting triggered.
And those triggers, they come from our individual personalities and our past experiences. So recognizing our own triggers and trying to understand other people's triggers, that's key. Exactly. Because once you understand what sets you off, you can start to manage those reactions better. And he also points out that sometimes when someone raises their voice,
It's not always aggression. It could actually be a plea to remove a threat. Like, hey, I feel unsafe or I feel unheard. Exactly. And being able to recognize that it shifts the whole dynamic. Instead of trying to win, you're trying to de-escalate. And that's where emotional intelligence or discernment, as he calls it,
comes in. Being able to pick up on those subtle cues. Right. Like is their body language tense? Are they avoiding eye contact? These little clues can tell you a lot about what's really going on. And then there's that great line.
What triggers you teaches you if you're willing to learn. It's so true. Our triggers can be these amazing teachers if we pay attention. So we've talked about controlling ourselves in the heat of the moment, but what about those moments before a conflict even erupts? Can we do anything then to kind of steer things in a better direction? Absolutely. And that's what chapter 16 is all about. He compares it
to feeling a storm approaching. You know that tension in the air right before a big argument? It's palpable. Exactly. And he gives us these three tools for taking control in those crucial moments. The first one is your first word is your breath. So pausing to breathe, being intentional. Yes. He actually teaches this technique called the conversational breath. It's a specific way of breathing that calms your nervous system and gives you a moment to collect yourself before you speak.
And he even references Navy SEALs using tactical breathing in high stress situations. So if it works for them, it can work for us. Right. The second tool is your first thought is a quick scan.
This is about doing a mental body check, like what sensations are you feeling, what emotions are present, and actually label them. He even tells this funny story about being in a yoga class and suddenly realizing he was angry, just acknowledging that anger helped him to manage it. So it's about bringing awareness to those emotions, not trying to suppress them. Exactly. And then the third tool is your first conversation is small talk.
And this isn't small talk with another person. It's the little pep talk you give yourself. Those internal mantras. Yes. He talks about using this before his very first trial. It was a way to calm his nerves and focus on his goal. So setting an intention and reminding yourself of your strengths. Exactly. It's about managing your mindset before you even walk into the room. So we've covered controlling our emotions, but what about controlling the pace of the conversation itself? That's chapter 17.
And he tells the story about a deposition with a guy named Chuck and how Chuck was speaking way too fast. Probably nervous. Yeah. But by rushing, he wasn't thinking clearly and he ended up making mistakes.
So Fisher advised him to slow down, to approach each question as casually as if someone were asking him about his weekend. Just take a breath. Exactly. And it made a huge difference because when we speak too fast, it often signals that we're in a reactive state. And we're not listening as well either. Right. So pausing both for yourself and for the other person, it's so important. And he makes a distinction between shuffling.
Short pauses, which can add emphasis and project confidence, and longer pauses, which give you more time to think. And sometimes those longer pauses, they can even prompt the other person to reconsider what they've just said. He tells that story about the lying witness and how that long silence just completely threw him off. It's such a powerful tool.
So we've talked about controlling our reactions and the pace of the conversation. Now we move on to rule two, say it with confidence. And confidence, I think, is something so many people struggle with. It's a common one. But chapter 18 emphasizes that confidence isn't just some innate trait. It's a skill that can be developed through practice. That's encouraging to hear. Right.
And he highlights things like eye contact, clear speech and avoiding filler words. All these little things that contribute to a more confident presence. So it's not just about what you say, it's how you say it. Like projecting that belief in yourself and your message.
Exactly. And one tip he gives is to focus on the message itself rather than getting caught up in your own self-doubt. So external focus instead of internal focus. Right. It's about shifting your mental energy away from those negative thoughts and towards the substance of what you want to communicate.
And that leads us into chapter 19, which is all about developing an assertive voice. And he uses this great analogy of a scientist. Ooh, tell me about it. Well, he says scientists don't just think about their theories. They test them. They take action. And confidence, it's not something you just feel it comes from doing. It comes from being assertive. So speaking up.
setting boundaries, advocating for yourself. Those are the things that actually build confidence. Exactly. And he gives all these practical tips on how to do that, like being mindful of your word choices, avoiding unnecessary qualifiers like just, which can undermine your message, and following through on your commitments, even the small ones, because that builds self-trust. And reframing apologies, like instead of saying, sorry, I'm late, say, thank you for your patience.
It's a subtle shift, but it changes the whole dynamic. It does. And he also talks about the importance of knowing when to speak up and not underselling yourself. And not being afraid to share your ideas and contributions. Right. Because when you do that, it actually strengthens your confidence over time. It's this positive feedback loop. So we've talked about control.
confidence. Now, what about those really difficult people that we all inevitably encounter? Ah, yes. Chapter 20. This is a good one. He tells this story about two sisters who are in a family business dispute.
And one sister is just being incredibly difficult trying to provoke a reaction. But the other sister, she stays calm. She doesn't take the bait. So not giving them the reaction they're looking for. Exactly. Because often difficult behavior is all about control. They want to get a rise out of you. But when you don't react, you take away their power. And he suggests things like using those long pauses, reflecting their words back to them, even calling out bad apologies or interruptions.
Yeah, all those are great tactics. It's about setting boundaries and not letting them walk all over you. And he also talks about recognizing your own worth, like knowing when to walk away from a situation with your dignity intact. And that leads us right into chapter 21, which is all about setting and enforcing boundaries. I think this is something so many people struggle with. It is. And he makes this really interesting point about how we're often conditioned to have a hard time saying no. Like it's almost rude, right?
Yeah, but he gives this really simple formula for saying, no, I can't. Thank you for the invite. And then maybe a kind closing if it's appropriate. But the point is,
"No" is a complete sentence. It doesn't need any further explanation. Exactly. And boundaries, they're not just about setting limits, they're about defining what's acceptable in your relationships. Creating that safe space for yourself. Right. And he outlines a whole process for doing that, like defining what's important to you, creating almost a user manual for yourself, communicating your needs clearly and assertively, and then most importantly, following through. So if someone crosses a boundary,
There are consequences. Exactly. It's about showing people how you expect to be treated. And he acknowledges that sometimes people won't like your boundaries. Well, they're essential. They are. They're a sign of self-respect. Okay, so we've talked about control, confidence, boundaries.
Now we get to rule three, say it to connect. This is where it all comes together. Chapter 22. And this is where he really emphasizes that every conversation is an opportunity to build connection. And he tells this great story about a networking event where someone bypassed all the usual small talk and just asked these really thoughtful personal questions. Like, what are you passionate about? Exactly. And it completely changed the dynamic. It showed genuine interest and created a real connection. So it's about being intentional.
Asking those deeper questions, trying to find common ground. Yeah. And he suggests that in every interaction, try to leave a positive impression. Maybe offer a genuine compliment or a thoughtful follow-up question or just a warm smile. It's the little things that make a difference. They really do. And he talks about the power of words to build bridges, to create understanding. It's about using your words intentionally and authentically.
And that leads us to chapter 23, which is all about conversational frames. Ooh, I love this concept. It's so helpful. And he uses this analogy of shoe shopping. Okay. How do shoes and conversations connect? Well, he says, imagine you walk into a shoe store and there are just shoes everywhere. Overwhelming. Exactly. Too many choices. But if they narrow it down, if they say, okay, what kind of shoe are you looking for? What's your size? What's your budget? It becomes manageable. Right. Right.
And that's what a conversational frame does. It sets boundaries, it directs attention so you don't get lost in the weeds. So instead of just letting the conversation wander aimlessly, you're defining the purpose. Exactly. And he gives a very clear process for doing that. You state the topic, the desired outcome, and you get the other person's commitment. Like, are we on the same page here? That's so important, that buy-in. It is. And he has this rule, one frame, one issue. So you're not trying to tackle 10 different things at once. You're focused.
And then if the conversation starts to veer off topic, you can gently redirect it back to the frame. So you're the guide in a sense. Exactly. Now, a big challenge to connection and it comes up all the time is defensiveness. Both in ourselves and in others. And Chapter 24 is dedicated to this.
He starts with this story about an expert witness in a courtroom who's just being so defensive and it completely undermines his credibility. People can sense that defensiveness, right? Oh, absolutely. And he explains that defensiveness often comes from feeling attacked, like your identity, your beliefs, your ego is under threat. And when we feel that way, we stop listening. We just want to defend ourselves. And he gives that great example of the OK text message.
How something so simple can turn into a huge conflict because of defensiveness. Right, because we're reading into things, making assumptions, and reacting based on our own insecurities. So being aware of our own defensiveness and trying to understand where it's coming from, that's crucial. Totally. And he gives some really practical tips on how to stop defensiveness in its tracks.
like taking a long breath, counting to nine, that kind of thing, and really trying to be curious about the other person's perspective instead of just formulating your rebuttal in your head. - Putting yourself in their shoes. - Exactly.
And he also gives advice on how to prevent defensiveness in others, like using I statements instead of you statements. So instead of saying you always do this, you say I feel this way when this happens. Exactly. It takes the blame out of it. And he also says try to avoid starting questions with why, because that can make people feel like they're being interrogated. Good point.
Okay, so we've covered a lot of ground, but what about those really tough conversations that we sometimes have to have? The ones we dread. Yeah, chapter 25 tackles that head on, and he makes this really interesting point.
How you handle a difficult conversation reveals more about you than the content of the conversation itself. It's about your character, your emotional maturity. Exactly. And he emphasizes the importance of preparation, like knowing where you're going and how you're going to get there before you even start talking. So having a plan. Right. And he lays out three key rules. First,
Set aside real uninterrupted time. Don't try to have this conversation in the middle of a busy restaurant. Right. Find a quiet space. Exactly.
He tells this story about a law school internship where the feedback was given at the worst possible time and it just made everything worse. So timing is key. It is. The second rule is drop the pleasantries. Like don't beat around the bush. Be direct and clear about what you need to say. Get to the point. Right. And the third rule is lead with your conclusion. Don't bury the lead. Like state your main point up front so there's no confusion. So being assertive and transparent. Exactly. And then he also gives advice on...
How to be a safe space for someone else when they're bringing a difficult conversation to you. Just expressing gratitude for their trust can go a long way. OK, so we're almost at the end of the book. And I love how he wraps it up with the afterword and the 47 second version. The story about Clemen Lee in the afterword is just so powerful. It is. Clemen had to give this speech at his law school graduation and he was terrified. But he had this mantra, only be Clemen Lee.
And that simple phrase helped him to overcome his fear and deliver an amazing speech. It's about embracing your authentic self, even when it's scary. Exactly. And that connects to the whole message of the book, right? Be yourself, communicate your truth clearly and respectfully. And then the 47 second version, it just distills everything down to these three key takeaways. Never try to win an argument. Confidence comes from action and focus on changing the next conversation, not the entire relationship.
Such great advice and so actionable. So for you, the learner, what's the big takeaway from all of this? Well, you now have a whole toolkit of strategies from the next conversation.
You can start using them today to improve your communication, build stronger connections, and navigate those tough conversations with more grace and confidence. And remember, it's all about progress, not perfection. One conversation at a time. And as Clem and Lee showed us, the most powerful thing you can bring to any conversation is simply being yourself, your authentic self. So here's a thought for you to ponder.
In a world that's so full of information, so noisy, genuine connection is becoming more and more valuable. So how will you use these insights to make your next conversation really count? How will you make it matter?