Build Your Own Table w/ The Teaching NP
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Hey guys, welcome back to Friends and Enemas. My name's Lindsay. Ignore my stuffy nose voice today, but I have a beautiful guest with me today. I'm going to let her introduce herself. Hi, I'm Sunny Kangura. I am a practicing nurse practitioner from Vancouver, BC, Canada. And I'm also the CEO of The Teaching NP, which is a nurse practitioner education company I created approximately 13 years ago. And I am here connecting with Lindsay today.

today. Awesome that's so cool. I was actually just binging your content. Yes I was like all right well and I also like to kind of know about my guests before you get here but your nursing or your MP booklet. Yeah the comprehensive one. I was like it's comprehensive but I was like that is so cool to me that there are so many nurses kind of diving into the entrepreneurship and

lifestyle like outside of bedside or clinic or wherever they're using their skills and being like how can I put this to the test with making more money or starting a business yeah which I think is really cool how did you begin doing that

I think, Lindsay, I kind of fell into it organically because it was when I was going through my NP program, I found I struggled with like various clinical practical skills. Like how do I actually do a full cardiac exam? How do I do a neuro exam or a knee exam?

And so I found the skills aren't always taught in a very practical way where you can learn them, practice them, and then enter the clinical setting, see a patient and actually go through the skills. So I, as a student struggled with that. So I figured so many other people must be struggling. And that's when I took it upon myself to teach myself. And then from there, I started teaching others, other NP students and started with a small group and it just sort of organically grew. And yeah,

entrepreneurship wasn't something I ever knew of or was familiar with and even thought that could be a potential career path. It just sort of organically happened and grew and I've been doing it ever since and it just kind of ignited a fire in me, you know? Yeah. I mean, that's really cool. That's my husband and I have been kind of entrepreneurial entrepreneurs

In our own way, we weren't using our nursing skills with it at first. We were just like, how can we... Because let me back up. Whenever we both... We both were in nursing school, not making that much money. At one point, one of us was working, one of us wasn't, just trying to get by. Then we start our nursing job and we realized...

still not making that much money actually. You know, it's more than we had, but when it was all said and done, we were living paycheck to paycheck and we were like, this isn't sustainable for our, for the lifestyle we want. So how can we put our brains together and come up with something else? And my husband started selling a product on Amazon. So that was kind of our first like,

toe dipped into like something else besides nursing like how can we launch like a business out of this and it kind of just started um rolling with um just learning one thing after another you know failing here I think I think success and failure go hand in hand especially with entrepreneurship yeah and I was going to ask you about that like have you come up with

Or come into like failures or something that made you feel like you were failing, but now you look back and you're like, actually, that was a lesson. Easy to move on from, easy to learn from. Yeah. Does it make sense? Absolutely, Lindsay. I think...

you cannot do entrepreneurship without multiple failures, multiple setbacks, multiple rejections. I think, but from those setbacks and rejections, like that's where the growth and learning actually happens. So despite the moments where I was, you know, knee deep in anxiety and overwhelm, I had to still work through it step by step to solve various problems or issues that would arise.

But then the next time I had to tackle those issues, I was so much more efficient and more confident. And I had the self-belief that, okay, I got through that other shit before I can get through this now. And it makes you want to keep going because you're like, I never knew I could solve that problem. Like a website issue. My skills are...

healthcare based. And so now I can, I learn a little bit of coding or I can, you know, update my website or do these certain skills that are non-nursing related. So yeah, you start to believe more in yourself and you have to enjoy the journey. Yeah. Most important. Yeah. I think that it builds confidence too. Like I don't think you build confidence without experience. And so the more you do it, but this also goes back into bettering

where did you begin your nurse career? Yeah, so as an RN, I started in orthopedics and trauma, and I did some palliative care and short stay unit. And then I went on to pursue my nurse practitioner degree. And I worked in primary care, so family practice for several years. And then I took on, I worked in, sorry, a mood disorders clinic where it was more mental health focused. And then I took on a director of health

a role where it was a large nonprofit organization and it was a lot of mental health and addictions and vulnerable population. And now in this current part of my career, I'm working in neurosurgery and have been in it for six years and loving it.

it that's really cool um neurosurgery is so interesting neuro anything is just interesting to me like the patients can sometimes feel like they're all the same but they're not like there's something so different going on but sometimes they like have the same behaviors as someone else which i think is so interesting and that's why you have to be really good at what you do yeah and you can pinpoint exactly what you know do they have a tbi do they have something else neurological going on yeah

But kudos to you because I don't think I could do neuro. I'm just like a medical ICU. When I get floated to neuro, I'm like, okay, I can do this. But I was going to bring it back to saying the stuff with your business, when you trial and error, you also do that on the bedside.

Absolutely.

So you have to rely so heavily on your observational skills. And if I'm at the foot of the bed and my patients on their cell phone, that tells me so much about their GCS versus someone who has their eyes closed and no spontaneous movements whatsoever. Um, or, and based on the lines you see, right, there's just so much assessment you can get from observation. And, but I think that's the beauty of neuro is, you

it can be challenging because your patients can't always tell you what they feel or what their symptoms might be. But that is the neat part of like the critical thinking and deep diving into problem solving and identifying your differential diagnosis or looking at

the different systems. So review systems as nurse practitioners, we often do like looking at other systems. If we think an issue might be stemming non-neural related, like is it cardiac? Is it rest? Just like, you know, you would as an ICU nurse. Yeah. Yeah. So it's pretty neat like that. That is neat. What made you, or did you always know you wanted to go into NP?

I think I got to a point in my RN career where I realized like, I cannot do this anymore physically, mentally. Like I would go and as many RNs would like hours and hours without a sip of water, without peeing. Like it was, I was like, I am not in a third world country. I'm in Canada now.

a public healthcare system and there's pros and cons to private public, of course, as we know, but I'm like, these are not reasonable working conditions. And I was just like, how is this normal? You know? And I think it was, there was a point I remember where I just realized I need to do more or something different.

And then I started my NP journey. And part of the reason being is that there's a little bit more autonomy and responsibility. And I'm really glad I did it because not only the work that I get to do with patients, but this entrepreneurial journey that like I got, I get to be on in that, um, you know, opened up for me and, um,

it just opens up so many opportunities. I think, you know, whether you pursue your NP or not, I think nursing in general, there are so many things you can do and it's okay to do those things. And there's so many skills within nursing that are transferable. Like for example, even for yourself on your platform with mental health advocacy or advocating for healthcare professionals or comedy and like being so transparent for new grads on what freaking nursing actually looks like is amazing.

So refreshing, but like as nurses, we have excellent communication skills, critical thinking, problem solving, but all those things you can bring into your platform and make an impact on the profession. And I don't think we give enough credit to that, you know? Yeah. That's honestly, it's eyeopening for me too. I'm like, Oh yeah, wait, no, I'm pulling some of my nursing background obviously and using it for something else, which is something I preach on as well.

nursing is not just bedside nursing. And you, you, oh, you said something that I was like, Ooh, I wonder why you said that. You said, um, like you don't have to stay. Has anyone made you feel like leaving bedside is not means you're not a nurse or not a real nurse? Oh, for sure. I think like, and that's that horizontal oppression, right? Yeah. I don't think that will ever be put to bed. I don't either. It will be,

even in the new generation, you're going to see it. Right. And part of me wonders, um, is it because nursing is predominantly females and, you know, biologically we would compete for resources, reproduction, et cetera, but like, what's the problem now? Like there is enough space at the table for everybody. Yes. And if you come to a table and no one is pulling out the seat and

for you or the chair out for you, do not beg. Yes. Go build your own damn table. Yes. Right. And that's my mission. Yeah. I don't ever want nurses or NPs to, you know, if they want to take on a new project or do something creative, whether it's nursing related, non-nursing related, like I will

support them. Absolutely. We cannot let like the nursing profession define us. We are so much more than that. And we can offer so much more than that. I love that. I love that. I wish I would have met you sooner. That's so true. Because I think I think you're right. I don't know if it's because it's female dominated. I haven't been able to pinpoint either. Because I

But it is a real thing when someone starts realizing it's a crab pot theory as well. Have you heard of that? What is the crab pot theory? No. Okay. It's when, unfortunately, you know, when you have a bunch of crabs are put into a pot to boil. Yes. If one starts crawling to the top to get out, the others pull it back in.

They pull it back in. You're not going to get out. Not without us, you're not going to get out. So it's a crab pot theory. Or there's another name for it, like the poppy, tall poppy syndrome. Okay. Where one tall poppy is above the rest. It gets cut down so that it's as short as the others. Okay. And it makes me think of nursing. That when someone has their foot outside of bedside a little bit. Yeah.

It seems like people are behind you. It seems like your community is behind you. But when both feet are outside of bedside is when you start realizing who was really in your corner. Yeah. And it's sad. It's kind of sad. It's like, why? What made you stop rooting for me now? You could do it. There's room for everyone. There's room for everyone. If you want to leave, it's not always easy. We don't have the same circumstances or situations, but...

You could do it. Yeah. But you want to bring other people down for leaving bedside for any way, shape or form. Yeah. I find it strange. It's sad. It is sad. It's like we should be rooting for each other. Like it's already a hard profession. Yeah. And it's in it runs deep. Yeah. But if someone's wanting to leave and if someone's wanting a better way, whether it be, you

climbing the ladder or whether it be extending their education, MP, you know, masters, teaching, et cetera, or just leaving the professional together, we should be rooting for them. Like what, like you said, there's a seat for everyone at the table. It's so strange. I completely agree. And I think that, you know, one of the missions I'm on or like the impact I want to make is for NPs, nurses to recognize that,

you should be able to go to work and do something that brings you joy and fills your cup. Like you're no job is ever perfect. Like entrepreneur endeavors hard can be hard, but it's the passion that drives you, you know, the grit, the relentlessness, relentlessness, relentlessness. I knew you were going to get you there. Yeah. And you know, it comes with determination and perseverance, but I think what,

as our generation, you know, we motive, well, motivation is a whole other issue too, but, you know, inspire and encourage people to keep going. I think it brings me to like Mel Robbins book, the let them theory, which yes. And I think it's so applicable to nursing because it, the theory really focuses on embracing your, your true authenticity and focusing on

what you truly inspire to be like you are in control of your future and working on eliminating worrying about other people's thoughts and perceptions and judgments of you because they'll often hinder you from doing the things that you truly want to do and I've applied it already in so many instances throughout my career in the last little while since I've read her book and

I think, you know, in order to build the life you want, it's such a relevant theory. And like, imagine living a life where you're so consumed by what other people might think within nursing. If you, I'm going to start a social media platform, I'm going to create nursing gear or, you know, swag, whatever you want to call it, or you want to,

Start a teaching business. You want to create a virtual virtual platform for primary care. You want to start an aesthetics business, med spa, whatever it might be. Maybe you want to create a medical device like we should be clapping for those things. Absolutely.

like imagine waking up and you're like, I'm not going to do it because what so-and-so is going to think like, you know, Dorothy who's 80 and the Dean of whatever school, like we cannot worry about that anymore. And so I think it's so important to apply that theory and, and,

create the life you want because there are so many uncontrollables when it comes to people to worrying about what people are going to think they're going to continue to think like that or if they don't support you it's okay like let them and don't let those opinions take up too much mental real estate in your brain use that energy to do what

fuels you. Absolutely. I love that you brought up Lethem by Mel Robbins. I'm only halfway through the book because I swear I have ADHD and I'll like listen to it and I'm like, okay, okay, cool. And I want to take that little piece and like use it in my life. But so far through the book, I'm to the point where she's talking about her family now, like using it even with your family. For me, it's easier to use it with my family over strangers.

And it's like, why am I letting strangers opinions or comments or mouthy? Whatever's get in my head. Yeah. Like you can't do that. It's so strange. It's like,

Like these people, one, are not your people. Yeah. Because your people will always be cheering for you. Exactly. But also a lot of your haters turn into your supporters when they start wanting, wait, can I, when they realize, oh, I can do that too, is when they're like, oh, wait, actually, wait, how'd you do that? Yeah. Is when they start asking and you're like,

I remember when you were not cheering for me, but now you're interested because it could benefit you too. That's why it's so important to cheer for everyone because eventually you'll be wondering and you'll be questioning, how did they do it? But letting them know

I think I actually did a post on this, like, that I tried to make it nursing related too, because it's like, if you go to work, I get DMs from usually newer nurses. Like I feel excluded at work from even activities outside of work. Like my unit goes and does stuff without me. You have to let them. A hundred percent. You have to. Unfortunately, that's not how you should treat people. You don't deserve to be left out. You don't deserve to be excluded. Yeah.

But at the same time, let people act how they're going to act. And honestly, don't read out of how they're treating you. They're treating you like that for a reason. Let them. Why would you want to be hanging out with people who exclude you in the first place? It's strange. Let them. You can't let these comments and opinions... There's another comment. Sorry, now my brain's like, wait. There's another phrase that says something like...

I wouldn't take the opinions of someone that's doing less than me. Yes. Something like that. Yeah. Or someone who hasn't been on your journey. Yes. So me starting an NP teaching business, I've had lots of people not support me on the sidelines. But I'm like, wait a second.

You have not created a business. You have not started a business. You have not been on social media. You have not built a website. You have not created e-courses. You have not taught in person. You have not flown places and taught. You have not done speaking events. Keep going. But you know what I mean? I do. You're like, why am I listening to you? They have no perception, perspective. Absolutely. Of what you're doing. Exactly. And it's funny, even though...

I have my journey, Lindsay, and you have your journey. It's the fact that we're both doing things that are non-traditional paths within the nursing field that we can automatically connect because I already can assume some of the challenges you've been through and the haters and the judgment and the opinions are

but you've persevered and that's what success is. And that's what true passion is for your craft. Absolutely. That's good. I feel like this is such a good message for people listening because I think it can just be so, it can be so easy to get into a negative head space about what you're doing with your life or what, what path you want to take. And if you can just let go of those negative

people's opinions of you, like really, it doesn't matter. I also like to think like one day I will be the patient in my deathbed. And what will I be regretting at that time? What will I be thinking of?

It probably won't be some stranger's comment on one of my videos. I hope it's not because then it really affected me, but it shouldn't be affecting us like that. So like, what are the things that are going to help us get to our deathbed and be happy that we're where we are because we didn't listen to everyone's bullshit. Yeah. Essentially. And I think it goes back to living in your true authentic self and, um,

not giving away your power to people whose opinions really don't matter. I will value...

opinions of people who are close to me and know me well. And if I'm veering on the wrong path or, you know, maybe I'm missing a key point in something I'm trying to do, I hope they share that with me. But at the end of the day, when you're on your deathbed, you just want to know that you were loved. And I want to, you know, be known. I hope I'm, it's known that I was a good mom to my children and a good wife and a good friend and sister and daughter. And those, those are, that's what's, that's what matters. And I,

You know, I hope that I inspired people in the nursing profession to do good and support others and not suppressing people or oppressing, you know, other nurses to do other things. I love that. I love that so much. So kind of jumping back to, you're from Canada. Do you know of any differences between Canadian nursing versus American nursing off the bat?

Like in terms of... Well, we could jump into this topic because it's very relevant right now in America. Is there workplace violence in Canada as well? There is, unfortunately. And, you know, recently there was at our hospital a student who was stabbed. It was in the media. Oh, wow. And...

I will say, though, the cases that I hear from the U.S., though, are so significant. But, of course, the population is so much higher in the U.S. We do have security. You know, we have employee-based counseling, et cetera. Yeah. But at the end of the day, for the hourly rate that RNs are being paid or, you know, physicians, health care providers, none of that is worth your life. Yeah. Yeah.

And it's sad, the cases that I've been hearing. Yeah, they're awful. Awful. Awful. I bring it up only because A, it's relevant. Absolutely. And something that I notice whenever I post or I'll get nurses from the UK, from Canada, from Mexico, and they're like, this is happening everywhere. And it's an epidemic essentially because it's almost like nothing truly is being done about it. Yeah.

And I don't have the solution for it either, but I know that it's a mixture of things that we could do better, like metal detectors at every entrance, not just the ER, if there are metal detectors. I don't know about your security, but a lot of our security here is not hands-on security. They're hands-off security. And I'm like, what does that even mean? When we already have a patient...

who understandably a lot of times it's a mental health issue but sometimes it's not yeah and those are the ones I'm like how come we're just letting people get away with acting like animals in a facility where if they acted like this in any other place it wouldn't be tolerated yeah

but it's very much tolerated in America. And so I was like, is it the same in Canada? Which I already knew I get DMs from other people, but it's something that I feel like has to change. Absolutely. Because we're going to keep losing healthcare workers. People don't want to work for a tiny bit of money to possibly lose their life or lose a big piece of their life or quality of their life. What are things that you think...

what hospitals could do that could help the safety of their healthcare workers? Yeah, I think security is like the key piece and having the hands-on security. And then, um, and I I'm familiar with the security where they're not allowed to actually touch the patient. And, um, and then you have your, um, sort of private security hired that or companies hired as part of the hospital that can actually physically restrain. And, um,

I think that's a huge piece, but I think early detection, like you said, like the metal detectors, I think is more so important for the US, like the gun laws are so different for Canada. So you would not commonly...

see someone enter the hospital with a gun, but things like other types of weapons or handmade weapons or knives, et cetera, those kinds of things are definitely something that can come through the door. And then I think the key piece is stabilizing early from a mental health perspective. So if someone is in an acute psychosis or an acute delirium or significantly agitated and recognizing signs early, there needs to be some sort of team or mental health team that needs to act early to assist or

policies in place to address it before things escalate. You know, I recently heard of the case where the nurse was beat quite significantly with a TBI, severe orbital fractures, facial fractures, and

her life will never be the same. And how did it get from that, from zero to that, right? Like what was missed from it to go to all the way to that. And she'll probably get what, two weeks off of work and something, something ridiculous. And that's not okay. No, it's not okay. I believe the nurse you're speaking of is Lila. Her name is Lila and she's in Florida. And I think what shocked me was,

not the most, but shocked me was I was assuming this was in the ER because unfortunately a lot of attacks happen in the ER. But this was on the third floor of the hospital telling me it's not the ER. I don't know what unit it was. I'm guessing a med surg unit of some kind because this facility doesn't even have the resources to handle psych patients.

Why was that patient there in the first place? Exactly. And some people say, well, we didn't know he was a psych patient. I think you're right though. There had to be signs that something was off before he just snapped. It's very rare for even a psych patient to just snap. There are typically signs, whether it be body language, the way they're speaking, the way their vitals are. There's something different. And I

I feel like you're right. Something wasn't caught. And I'm not saying by Leela. I'm saying by people previously, doctors or nurses or administration or whoever, or even our system for when we look at patients. Maybe we didn't have all the information about this patient. Why didn't we? Something has to change because her life will forever be changed, even if she doesn't lose her eyesight. Yeah.

Which I think she still is going to lose her eyesight. But even if she didn't, her life is forever changed. That is a terrible thing to happen to someone traumatizing. And it's like, like you said, was she going to get two weeks off when she's better? Yeah. And has a TBI. And has a TBI. And probably PTSD as anyone would have. And yet...

that patient's probably going to get a slap on the wrist of some sort. I mean, it looks like they're charging him right now with attempted second degree murder. But from what I noticed is a lot of times charges get dropped. And it's like, well, what are we supposed to do? And then you have another side of the team saying, or people saying, but he's a psych patient. So what do we do? We don't have enough resources for psych in America, probably anywhere. Yeah.

I can speak on America. We don't have enough resources here, whether it be funding therapy from a young age, et cetera. And I'm just like, what do we do with these people? He can't just be left on the street. Look what he did. But then you're right. He has a psych issue. What do we do? I was just curious if you have any like thoughts on that.

I think a huge part of the problem also stems from like lack of resource from housing, opioid crisis, polysubstance use, addictions, childhood trauma, which I don't think there's enough assessments done with the ACE score. Gabor Matei speaks a lot about the ACE score as well, where you're assessing adverse childhood events in people who do acts like this gentleman did with that nurse. And more resources have to go

into that, into the vulnerable population. And it's challenging because you have harm reduction strategies, opioid replacement therapies, and I think there's opinions across the board, but there's no easy answer, Lindsay. But I definitely have to say, like, it doesn't mean that it's okay for

to wake up to go to work and take care of someone and get the shit kicked out of them where it will impact their life so significantly and the domino effect now that's going to occur not only for herself but how it's going to impact her family dynamic her children may never have the mom that they had the morning that she went to work and

I think I can completely understand how people considering nursing as a profession, seeing all of this in the media, you know, newspapers, et cetera, no longer being interested in pursuing the field. Hence why many nurses are also doing other, you know, going through, pursuing other ventures or taking on other endeavors so that

This doesn't have to be their full-time job. And I don't blame them. I don't blame them either. It's actually something my husband and I were talking. Um, I always say like nursing is my plan B was nursing something that you grew up wanting to be a part of, or did it happen later in life? I think it sort of happened later in life. I knew I always wanted to do something in healthcare. Um, and then I was like, you know, I'll try nursing. And

did it and enjoyed it. Like I really enjoy the field, just the critical thinking. I like the problem solving and then so much that I want to pursue my NP. And but it's so much more fulfilling with me being able to teach and make an impact in a different way on NP students.

And I don't think I would enjoy nursing as much if I didn't get to teach and work with students and promote mental health and help students recognize that their self-limiting beliefs are not actually true and they need to challenge them and help them get to a place of confidence and realization that

they can do hard things. Yeah. I am. I'm kind of circling back to what I want to talk about with both of these things, but do your students have a lot of imposter syndrome? Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's like, and I don't know if it ever really goes away. And I think, you know, there's a true phenomena around it. There's lots of literature around it. And now though, I try to go about it where I,

rather than reading, you know, be well versed in it, know what it is, know where those feelings come from. But like, how do we

help get rid of it or minimize it. Right. And so that might be where you're struggling with certain skills, let's say IV insertion or identifying differential diagnoses or doing review systems. What do you need to do to get rid of that shitty little voice in your head? That's like, you suck at this. And that means practice, like put your head to the books, like hands-on practice, like talk to people who can guide you and mentor you. And, um,

build the confidence rather than focusing on the feelings of imposter syndrome. And I love that. Yeah. That's, I feel like looking at the strategy of working through it rather than just sitting in it. Yeah. Is what you want to focus on. Absolutely. It's still in the NP profession for sure. I almost find it with, um,

most women. And I say most because I came across a video. Do you know who Alona Mars is? Yes. And she was being interviewed as she's an Olympian. She was being interviewed. And the interviewer asked if she has imposter syndrome. She's like, I don't know what that is. Yeah. I don't have that. Never have. What a badass, confident woman. Yeah. And to show us that we don't just have to have imposter syndrome because we're women. Yeah. Like,

no one's going to know what they don't know. And that doesn't mean you have imposter syndrome, but you can have imposter syndrome, but you're right. The way to break it is by building confidence. And how do you build confidence? It's with practice and with experience. And so I always tell like new grads, I get, I'm like, everyone feels a little unsure of themselves, but it doesn't mean that you can't do it. You just have to practice it and you don't know what you don't know. So you can't beat yourself up. Um, but it makes me circle back to us talking about, um,

There's a lot of violence in healthcare that we're trying to figure out, but it's something that I pride myself in that nursing's my plan B. It was never my end all be all. And it's not my identity. And you said this earlier in the podcast that, um,

When you identify with your job and that's all you are, I'm just a nurse, it can start going south quickly, in my opinion. Burnout is going to come out right around the corner. Because all you do is think about nursing. You take nursing home with you. You take everything home with you. And if you can't separate yourself from the job, first and foremost, you're going to have a hard time, in my opinion. Or you're going to be the bully on the unit. I always feel like the bully on the unit only identifies with just nursing. Yeah.

But whenever you decide there's something more for me out there, like entrepreneurship of some kind, I think it's really important because two things will happen. More nurses are going to leave bedside. And I think it needs to happen so that hospitals realize we're not dealing with this stuff. And also it gives you a safety net of once you start building more money outside of bedside, you start realizing you don't really need that job. And then you might be like me and start loving the job more. Yeah.

That's what happened to me. I was like, I actually love bedside now because I'm not forced to be there 36 hours a week. Absolutely. Yeah. You want to be there and you're enjoying it so much more. And yeah,

I think that's the beauty of doing a few different things in your profession and it gives you variety, you acquire new skills. And I think just like you said, like when you have to be somewhere, it's so different from wanting to be somewhere or wanting to do something. So I can completely relate with that. Yeah. Going back to the comparing and contrasting of Canadian versus American work,

Anything really, but with healthcare. How was nursing school for you? Nursing school, I would say it was intense, like the program I did. And overall...

It was a lot of weekends studying, writing papers. But again, there was a lot of competition within nursing school. Who got what grade, whose grade was higher. If you were being called upon by the clinical instructor and humiliated in front of everyone. I think, unfortunately, nursing school, there's a lot of anxiety within the training program. And I think...

There's such a lack of confidence building. And I think nursing school and NP programs, it needs to be kinder, more respectful, more supportive. And I think you can easily get there.

But I think, I hope the newer generation of educators, et cetera, can offer that. And I'm not saying it's the old school, you know, nursing educators or generation that are creating a toxic environment. I'm not saying that at all. Like I have amazing past professors who are, have been nursing for several, several years. I think it's just, how do we do it across the board where,

every class you go to, you know, in your undergrad or your NP program, you're feeling well supported. And, and it doesn't mean it's going to be fluffy or that you can cut corners. It just creates an, a, a learning environment, a learning environment that's so much more conducive to like acquiring the information and learning the information. And I think like when I teach, that is the number one

is creating an environment where people can ask the questions and say, can you show me how to do this? And I'm going to show you because I know other people are thinking the same thing. And I think that's the only way you're going to have strong healthcare providers that can allow for good patient outcomes. Absolutely.

And it's so simple. Be kind. It is simple. You're providing a safe space for them. Safe space, yeah. Because I think we all unfortunately have a story where someone was in a safe space and they made you feel dumb. Yeah. And whenever you do that, you undermine your coworkers like that. Confidence goes... Yep. And it just like puts you down a peg. Exactly. It's like, it's really not that hard. No. You can teach people and you don't have to be like, you didn't know that? Yeah. It's like...

just teach them and move on. That is so strange, but you're right with different, um,

experiences and working different places or, or using your expertise like you, like you're doing with, um, creating, um, products for people to learn how to be an MP. Like you're, you're learning more by doing that as well. And it makes you a well-rounded nurse or well-rounded person really. Um, I think that's really cool. I'm glad that you're saying like safe space of, I'm like, hell yeah, that's exactly how it should be. Um, let's see. Um,

I will speak of, you know, we're talking about the entrepreneurial journey. There is a well-known NP named Sarah Michelle who created Sarah Michelle NP Reviews. And she was a young NP who created this phenomenal NP education company. And she recently posted also about being told by many people in the industry, like well-known in the industry, that her success was based on luck.

Oh, excuse me. Yeah. And she recently just posted this and it really resonated with me because she spoke about like people not seeing the perseverance and the consistency and how much she focused on detail and collaborating with students to create her education company. And I think, again, it speaks to.

that's still going on within nursing and like, why are we not celebrating someone of that caliber who's like changing education for NP students and helping build confidence and decrease anxiety? And I think that's

sort of the mission, you know, to just continue to support so many nurses and NPs who are taking on non-traditional paths. Absolutely. And unfortunately, my brain always comes back to, would they have said that to a man? Yeah. Yeah.

Would they have said, oh, it was luck? Yeah. I don't think so. Most of the time, no. And I feel like with women, it's either luck or you slept your way to the top or you did this or you did this. And it's like, actually, we have a whole brain. Yeah. And we are intelligent and she's intelligent. I know you're speaking. I've seen her stuff come across my page. And it's like, what a way to undermine her. Yeah. That's so rude. Absolutely. Not luck. She worked for that. Worked her ass off for it. Yeah, she earned it. She earned it. Yeah.

Yeah, and that's what I think I want to highlight is like, this is what we need to support if we're going to move the profession like forward and grow the profession and be innovative is we have to welcome new ideas like with open arms. Absolutely. You know, even me and some of my friends that I know of, I won't say their names, because I don't know if they want this type of information out. But

Me and some of my friends who are content creators, you know, we'll get comments or messages that are like, well, you're not even like a real nurse anymore. I do still work bedside actually, but I'm not full time. But once again, it's that mentality of,

Are you jealous? You could do this. It's hard work. It was hard work for me too. I wasn't gifted with a silver spoon in my mouth. It wasn't luck. I worked for it. So it's like you can also work for these things and get these things, but I would never...

Even before I was online, I wasn't messaging people being like, oh, you're not as good as you once were or you weren't blank. And it's like, what is going through your head to say something so rude to somebody? And like you said, undermining them. Yeah. And that's where like the let them theory, right? It's that why are you going to let opinions and judgments from others who have not walked your path take up so much mental real estate and keep you awake at night?

having you question whether you should pursue your dream or not. Absolutely. That shouldn't be even in the equation anymore. No. Yeah. And I think, I think it doesn't happen overnight. And also I think people's backgrounds play a big part in who they think they are. Like if you've had a struggle growing up, it could be a little harder for you to gain confidence in yourself than someone who seemed to have it perfect. But we, but, but,

But pain is relative. And so we all go through something that's painful in life. And so we can all connect in some way. So I'm with you on that. Like enough with dragging people down. Let them talk about you. Let them think whatever they want. Because you have to know who you are at the end of the day. And I feel like that's how you get two steps forward is remembering like, I'm a good person. I know that I meant this whenever I did this. However, they're trying to twist something, you know? Yeah.

Has your content ever been twisted into something it wasn't? And you're like, how did we get here? Yeah. I don't think my content has because it's quite education. It's very like fact-based. Yeah. From my experiences, how people, like comments they'll make about me teaching, like,

you know, you should just get hired by a institution and teach there. And it's like, but then it's not my own anymore. And I have a certain style to the way I teach. And again, creating the safe space that's priority and helping students identify those self-limiting beliefs to allow them to be successful and,

And I think as you go through it, just I'm sure as you have Lindsay, like on your journey is that noise gets a lot quieter because, you know, your confidence grows and the belief in yourself continues to grow. And, um,

I'm sure just like yourself, you allow the people who follow you or enjoy your content be your biggest supporters. And I think for me, I no longer look to anything else except for my students and the feedback I get from my students and

the validation just from seeing the shift in students, like even in their eyes, their body language from the start of a course to the end of it and how appreciative they are. That's all I need to keep going. Yeah. I love that. Can your NP course, since you're from Canada, can people from America benefit from your course?

Yeah. So I initially started teaching for, uh, created an exam prep course for something called an OSCE exam. Um, so that's an objective structured clinical exam where you work through patient stations and it's timed and it could be like behind your first door. You have, um,

a 28 year old with right lower quadrant pain and you need to complete a history and physical and you have 10 minutes. And so you have to be very systematic and methodical. So that's the first course that I had created. And then I have other courses, one being the nurse practitioner student master course. And this sort of,

gives you all of the clinical and practical skills you need as an NP student either entering clinical practicums or entering real-world practice and focuses on things like patient history taking, developing management plans, performing physical exams and you work through patient-based scenarios and so that's an e-course and you can also attend in-person courses.

That's so cool. I'm like, I'm excited to go. Like, I want to see how the process was that you even made this. Cause I'm like, how could, how could I learn from you? I'm not going to become an MP at least right now. I'm like, nah, I don't think so. But if I do, that's really cool. Yeah. I'm like, okay, I got my girl over here. Absolutely. That's really cool. Is there anything else you want to add? I think in nursing and, you know, with MPs,

If, for example, there's a lot of NPs who do aesthetics and, you know, maybe there's NPs working at the bedside or working in a primary care setting, et cetera, or who may feel that that might be soft nursing. But to start a business, open a clinic, get your software programs in order, your operating systems, scheduling systems, your equipment, your supplies, ordering, inventory, everything.

clinic processes from the second the patient walks through the door and that patient experience from beginning to end of treatment, post-care, pre-care. It goes on and on. And I think there is no way you can define that being soft nursing. And same with what you're doing. Same with what I'm doing. People might see that there's an entrepreneurial endeavor to what I do, but it never started that way. It started with me wanting to

help people become more confident and actually learn the practical skills to become NPs. And, but with what I've done, for example, creating e-courses or teaching in person, you know, I worked with someone overseas creating an e-course and that's a lot of coding involved and a lot of waking hours in the middle of the night and took a year to develop and

people do not see those things. They don't see me creating the comprehensive template bundle where I spend hours, you know, overnight

through blood, sweat, tears, and breast milk, creating these services and products for people because they don't see the grind behind all the things that we do. And so I always chuckle a little bit at the definition of soft nursing versus hard nursing because soft nursing often is defined as there's more flexibility, more work-life balance,

It's not those hard skills, you know, with bedside, such as the technical or procedural skills that you might have. But the things that...

we do when we're on non-traditional paths, they are also hard and they may be hard in other ways, but we often have to acquire new skills that are non-nursing, right? So from what you're doing with your podcast setup, like the technical skills and the support that you've probably had to acquire to do this. And so when people say,

you're not truly a nurse, well, you're actually doing a lot more. And I think that we don't give enough credit to that. I was about to say, you're making me like, it's like a light bulb moment to like, soft nursing is almost a way to possibly undercut. Yeah, undermine people being like, Oh, you're not really that it's not that hard of a nurse job. Yeah.

but really you're right. It's that we take the skills that we learned, we use them in our new job or we learn new skills or we learn how to fix our old skills into new skills. It's much different than just soft nursing. Absolutely. It's really not fair to call people soft nurses if you're not like ICU, bedside, ER, bedside. Like it's,

It's strange. We're doing different things and we're learning different things. Absolutely. And even with soft nursing, you know, the definition can include there's better work-life balance. So if entrepreneurial endeavors are considered soft nursing skills or because we're not at the bedside or, you know, working in primary care or acute care, whichever hospital setting, it's

there is no work-life balance as an entrepreneur. Like your obsession, you have to have a healthy amount of obsession

as an entrepreneur to create that success and move your business forward and scale your business. I don't think without that obsession, you can do a lot of that and something's going to give. And so every day your priorities might shift. You know, I spend a lot of time with my kids one day, the next day is more work focused. Next day is at the hospital and kids like there's always this shifting of priorities, but I don't think it's soft nursing. I don't know where those definitions came from, but I think again, it's a way of oppressing

oppressing nursing that it nursing can only be in this box. And if we take a step outside of the box, whether it's one or both feet, it's not defined as nursing. But there's so many nursing skills that are transferable into other areas. And why can't we do both? Yeah. So and that's the beauty of it. That's what we I'm sure you've harped on as well.

Whenever people are like, should I go into nursing? I'm like, well, that's a personal question, but you can do so much with it. You can do so much with it. So at the end of the day, I'm always like, yes, go for it. Because you can use those skills for a multitude of other things. And like you said, like the soft nursing thing, that's like a light bulb for me now. I'm like, oh, I can't wait to go say more about that because it's true. It's not soft. This is not soft. And the thing, something else you said that I'm like, oh,

You're like validating some thoughts I've had about my life before. Like content creation and entrepreneurship, it can be a very hard work-life balance. Yes. There's a lot. I think I have carpal tunnel in my thumbs because I'm constantly editing. I'm constantly on my phone for work. Yeah. You know, and it's like people don't see that part. Is it as hard as...

watching someone pass away in a bed. No, there are different emotional tolls. Absolutely. But I'm sitting over here on my phone, you know, trying to get something done. My husband hasn't spent any time with me. It's like, oh yeah, okay. I have to, it's hard to time manage. That's for sure. Yeah. It's just a whole different world. It is. And you're using different parts of your brain and, you know, but it's also gives you that creative outlet to do something that fills that passion that you want to pursue. Yeah. Yeah.

That's good. And once again, it also fills my cup to kind of step back into what I like at bedside. Like it's doing all this stuff away from bedside has helped me love bedside more. That's why I tell everyone, I'm like, if you want to go be an artist, go do it. On your four days off, you're going to be tired one or two of those days, but do it. Do something for yourself to fill your cup.

Because otherwise you're not going to be able to help other people. And if there is a passion, you know, that you want to pursue, it doesn't mean you have to stop working your full-time job. If you can carve out a few hours, a day, a week, you know, to slowly build on something that you're passionate about and you have to just start and see where it takes you.

And then over time, as you continue to develop your skills, if you're to a point where if you can say that, oh, yeah, I have to continue doing this, that is your calling. But if you get to a point where you're like, it's not really my thing. Well, at least you tried rather than being so stressed about what other people are going to think about you. You know, if you're going down a non-traditional nursing path and not pursuing it.

that's not a way to live either. Right. Right. Right. And if you've never tried it, you're going to have regrets about not trying it. You'll always wonder what if versus like you said, putting it aside. There are several things I've tried that I was like, actually no, actually no, but this, I do like this. And I feel like it's important for us as we grow as adults, as humans, I say adults, cause I feel like early twenties, it's like, yeah, you're

adult but you don't really know yourself and so trying new things throughout your life whether it be with nursing or outside of it is just so important yeah um and most things that are worth doing are hard yes agreed and also don't compare your start from someone else's 10-year journey absolutely that's something else i i've been in that boat before too comparison is totally the thief of joy and i've caught myself being like why but why are they here and i'm not they're 10 years ahead of me yes

of course we're not going to be in the same spot. And Lindsay, you're bringing something totally new to what you're doing. So, you know, and I think it's important to remember that like there are many NP educators out there, but again, there is space for all of us at the table and we each bring something unique and you know, someone who may not like my nurse teaching style might really like another educator style. And that's great though, as long as that student is supported and, and,

you know, we're able to get that student to the place that they need to get to. So again, like pull out a chair for the people who want to sit at the table. That is so sweet. I'm so glad I met you. I love that. That's amazing. I think that's all I've got for today. Where can everyone find you?

Um, so on Instagram, I'm at the teaching NP and my website's the teaching NP.com. It all flows. It all flows. It's the teaching NP. Yeah. Awesome. Well guys, I'll have the links to her social media and her product in the description. So please go give her a follow and thank you so much. Thank you so much, Lindsay. Bye guys.