What's in the bag? Babies!
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Hey guys, welcome to Friends and Enemas. My name's Lindsay. I'm your host today and who do I have with me? Hello, my name is Adam Ben-Willows. I am the Peds Yard Nurse and the co-founder and co-creator of Firefly Veinlight. Awesome. Can you tell us a little bit of your background and kind of how you, before you got into Firefly, what were you doing? Well, I started as a pediatric yard nurse back in San Diego as a new grad and then progressed into adult yard, which was kind of

In assistance to help with an addition to a children's section of the ER. And that's where it sparked my idea that there was, or I guess not really my idea because this technology has been around for a long time, but really saw that there was consistencies in missed IVs in kids due to the lack of tools available and especially in adult ERs where they still see a lot of kids.

that this technology they don't even know exists. So I saw a way to improve quality of care for infants. Yeah. How long were you a nurse before this idea kind of started rolling? Oh, less than two years, actually. Oh, really? I think about a year and 10 months or so, maybe a year and eight months when I first had the idea. Wow. Did you go into nursing knowing...

that you wanted to be a nurse? Was it a plan A? Was it a plan B? Kind of like, why'd you choose nursing? Oh, nursing itself. Yeah. Nursing. Oh, no, no, no. Um, it took me a long time to figure out what I want to be when I grew up. And I feel like I'm, I'm still trying to figure that out. I feel like that's half of us. Yeah, no. So, um, back to like early adulthood, I was in the Marine Corps when I was young and

I joined the Marine Corps right out of high school, did that for five years, and then actually went into business and worked in the wine industry and the alcohol industry, studied business marketing. Oh, wow. And then at one point, I decided that wasn't for me and went to pursue...

a career originally in firefighting. I wanted to be an EMT at first and then work my way into fire. And then at one point, I kind of was exposed to nursing for the first time through working 911 calls. And I thought that was a better option. Yeah. I have a lot of family that's EMT or firefighter, first responders. And I feel like you guys have

I bet you get asked a lot. What's the craziest story, right? Yeah. And you're an ER. People ask that all the time. Yeah. And I feel like that's a common question for me too. I'm ICU and like, sometimes I'm like my crazy story isn't the same as a first responders. Crazy story. Um, was working as, um, a first responder, was it difficult for you? Like emotionally, um,

No, I think after the Marine Corps, I did a couple of tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. So going into a field where it's kind of that high pace and critical thinking was it came naturally. Yeah. I don't I've never really been stressed out about anything with emergency medicine. It was definitely a learning curve because I've never done anything medical before. Yeah. And so I had a lot to learn, especially just kind of jumping into it very rapidly, just kind of one day up and quit my job in the business world and

and just went full on into that and been doing that ever since. And that was back in 20, 2012, I think is when I first started as a, in the medical field. Oh, wow. I think a lot of people, um, expect nurses to like, have always wanted to be a nurse or, you know, grew up wishing to like help people. And I, I like bringing this up because I think a lot of us just kind of

It falls into our lap and we're like, oh, I think I could do this. I think taking care of people is the easiest part of the job, in my opinion. But I feel like a lot of people... You don't have to have always wanted to be a nurse your whole life to choose that path. Well, I think there's also been a lot more shift where I think in the past, especially our parents' generations, you chose your career early and you just stuck with it. And you got a job in a factory or you became a nurse or whatever. And you did that for 40 years. But I think people now is...

People switch and there's so many nurses who are starting in their 30s or late 20s as a second career. And I think that's become a lot more common, I think easier to do than back in like the pension days and you get in early and you stay there until you die. That's like not there for us anyway. So of course we're going to be bouncing around. So you said you saw a need for some type of device or like something to help you.

I guess not having to stick kids so many times because you're saying like if there wasn't enough resources, then we're probably having to stick them more than once, more than twice to find a vein. Exactly. So to kind of back up on how this happened. So I was working in the children's hospital in San Diego.

For a couple of years. And I knew I wanted to be a travel nurse, but as I started looking at it, logically, there's one children's hospital sometimes for an entire state. Yeah. So I thought it's like in my best interest to get some adult experience. And so luckily there was a hospital in South Orange County, not far from where I was living in Oceanside.

And so I took a job there where they had opened a children's section of the ER. And so I got hired as like a pediatric specialist to help teach their staff about kids and then at the same time learn about adults. Oh, wow. Which was a whole other subject. It was a whole different learning curve when you've done your whole career with little babies and children. I can't imagine, honestly. And when I got there, just by chance, the pandemic happened.

And so I'm trying to develop ways to teach and things like that. And one of the big downfalls I saw with the staff were getting IVs in kids, which is a very difficult task if you haven't done it before. The approach is different. The tools you need are different. And they didn't have the tool available. So I reached out to the manufacturers who made the most readily commercial, the commercial ready made Transluminator. And because of international shipping restrictions, we couldn't get one.

And so I just made one in my garage, just kind of out of necessity to buy some time. Okay, Jeff Bezos, out of your garage. Well, it's a very simple concept, but what's funny, a lot of entrepreneurs just do that. They'll find a need and this wasn't my intent. It just kind of worked out that way and saw how successful the teaching with this was.

And the more and more the nurses were asking for this tool that I had created in my garage. And it really sparked my interest that we can change healthcare for kids by making this commercially ready, like a commercially made product that anyone can buy and carry on them. How did you make it in your garage? Like what, what was it? So, um,

The way it works is, I guess we can do the demo maybe to show how a transformation works. I guess it's kind of hard to explain for people who either aren't in nursing or who don't work in pediatrics or NICU. So we're going to do a quick little demo. So the way this works is, there's a couple of things to take into consideration when you're putting IV in babies. Because you do ICU. Right.

Adult ICU. So you've probably never had to put an IV in a baby or care for a baby. It scares the living hell out of me. It does. And it's scary, especially for adult nurses, too, because they're going to come through their ERs. Yeah. So this is one of our little demo babies that we use. So the way a Transluminator works is there's a bunch of different ones that are made. It's a little device. And this is Firefly. It'll connect to your ID badge. Awesome.

That we created for that reason so that more nurses can carry on them, which was kind of off of the original concept. But we'll go over that in a second. So the way it works is it's really a very fancy medical grade LED light. When you put it under the hand, which is kind of your ideal place for infants around a year old or so, you'll see their veins illuminate from below.

And a lot of the teaching, or I guess the downfalls in missed IVs are that a lot of adult nurses don't know this technology exists. And pediatric nurses know it exists, but a lot of the existing products are a little bit outdated or the battery's not charged or they're not working. So when I made one in my garage, which was just more or less I got a bunch of keychain flashlights.

And cause it was the pandemic, you know, and I started taking them apart, drilling holes in them and trying to find one that I can fit under a baby's hand and I can control. Cause you have to manipulate the anatomy. You gotta think they have like chunky little hands or veins are deep below. You have to really manipulate the anatomy for it to work. And so I made one in my garage out of a key chain and it worked well. And I was able to teach nurses how to put IVs in with success. And people were coming up to me, about 20 nurses asked me to make them this flashlight.

And that's what sparked the interest. So the way it works is the veins are deep below the adipose tissue. This is really good for kids two and under because there is a lot of baby fat. Once they start developing motor skill, they'll develop muscle, which is far more dense than baby fat. And then their bones will start to develop too, which is more dense.

So yeah, you put the light from below and you're going to kind of pull the hand down to control that baby fat, make the skin nice and tight, and you can eliminate the veins from below. And we have different settings. So we have like a lower setting for your NICU babies and your newborns. And then it gets higher for your heavier babies and your dark skin kiddos. So it kind of works well for a bunch of different kiddos. I mean, that's impressive. Honestly, A, being a nurse during COVID and you're like,

I think I have a business idea, you know, like a product idea that could really serve your community and then also...

hopefully make you money outside of bedside. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, well that, that wasn't the original attempt. I mean, well, I mean, obviously it was when you started business, you're not doing it to, to just, let's be honest for fun. You're, you're there to, you know, create a business and drive some revenue. We were very naive about how much it was going to cost to start. But, but yeah, we just, you know, the, I was teaching these staffs and made these, these key chain and, and we had huge success and consistencies and first attempt IVs and,

And I've created like a little PowerPoint and taught them like the whole thing on this little key chain I made in my garage. And yeah, it sparked the idea. That's really cool. I mean, it's impressive. I'm sure you've heard of Anthony from Lumify, but he created a gadget for nurses as well and also was like a new nurse. And I think he thought of his in nursing school. It's just cool that our minds are like thinking outside of

the box and like we're we're the ones on the unit working directly with patients and so you know exactly what you're needing and we can't always get it from hospital admin or whoever sure decides what products we get in the hospital yeah and you'll see that a lot and i'm sure i don't i don't know how much you see in the icu but you see in the air a lot where people just kind of rig up things that make it work you know there's

Whether it's, you know, your wines are in the way and someone makes a little clamp to go on the bed or they, you know, you kind of make things to make things work sometimes. And especially during the pandemic when there was restrictions, you couldn't get the tools you needed. Right. And this was just something out of necessity. Right. Okay. So going back a little bit, where did you start nursing?

So I started in San Diego at the Children's Hospital, Radiesse Children's Hospital. Okay, cool. I have friends that work there, by the way. So I know a little bit about Radiesse Children's. Especially as a traveler. There's tons of travelers that go there. It's a big, big, busy hospital. When did you decide to take the leap to travel? Because you also were a travel nurse, correct? Yes, correct. So I wanted to do it around two years was the plan. Like I said, it was knowing that

only doing pediatrics was going to restrict me. It was always my plan. I had met a friend of mine as an ER tech who was a travel nurse and he was like telling me about this guy's got making good money. He was just like

oh yeah, I'm going to head to Ibiza for a couple of weeks to go party in between contracts. And he's just like traveling around the world. Must be nice. Single, like making good money. I'm like, damn, I didn't even know travel nursing was a thing. So from the beginning, that was like the goal. That's so funny. That's exactly what happened with me and my husband. We were nurse techs in the hospital. One of my friends who was a nurse convinced us to go to nursing school. She was like, you know what? You guys...

we didn't really know what we wanted to do. We were kind of taking a break from college and we were just working as just normal nurse techs. And she was like, you should go to nursing school, become a nurse and start traveling. And we were like, traveling? What is traveling? And she introduced us to one of the travel nurses on the unit who I thought was making way more money than everyone else. And she liked her lifestyle a lot more. There was a lot more autonomy and just different things that

I guess experience that she had that other nurses didn't have just because once you start working at different places, you notice all these different things that happen everywhere, you know, versus just your one hospital. But me and my husband decided to go to nursing school too, just, just to travel, obviously to get that experience first, but then jump into travel immediately. So I know your husband's original experience,

Degree was in sports medicine. Is that correct? And what was yours before nursing? See, I jumped around. I didn't have a degree before nursing. I was in college for like seven years. I was a pre-vet for almost four. Jumped to geology.

They were licking rocks in class to see if I had salt. And that's when I knew it wasn't for me. I was like, I'm not looking at rocks. That's weird. I literally just did it because one of my family members was like, geologists make good money. And I was like, cool, I'll be a geologist. Lasted one semester, moved on from that to dental hygiene, took a break, and then wound up in nursing school. Perfect. And here we are.

Real nurses. Look at us. Real live nurses. So during travel, then is that when, like how long from nursing to Firefly?

So we started, I, so I had the idea about, like I said, just under two years of being a nurse and then didn't really do anything with it for a while. Like it wasn't my dream to like, oh, I'm going to be an entrepreneur and change medicine. Like that was never my intention. Like I had this idea, ran it by my girlfriend at the time. She's like, yeah, I think that's a good idea. I think that could work. And it did nothing for like, oh man, podcasting.

probably like a year and a half. And then later on that year, I like pitched the idea to a friend of mine who's another Peds travel nurse. And he's like, yeah, I think that's a pretty good idea. Like, I think there's a need for it. And then we took a couple of contracts together at one in Oakland and an adult hospital, which was a whole different world. We kind of a whole episode about East Oakland emergency room. I would love to hear. We'll tell you later. It's pretty wild place. So we

So we went there together and then went to Nicaragua and surfed for a while and then went to another contract. And we didn't really do nothing with it. We thought it was a good idea, but didn't really... Part of it was not knowing where to start, but COVID was kind of tapering off and we were pretty burned out from being in the ER. So it was kind of, let's go climb, let's go surf. And, you know, it was an idea in the back of our heads, but never even knew if we were actually going to do anything with it, to be honest. And there was about...

So September of 2021 is when we finally started the corporation and actually started getting involved with looking into what it takes for research and development. And what does it take? Oh, man, that's so much. There's so much that we didn't know. I mean, we started with like just very basic, like, all right, let's do a drawing of what we want to look like. Features that we knew would be important from a pediatric perspective that other devices didn't have.

and then do like a digital drawing and kind of like a concept more or less that we would present to engineers.

And then it's a lot of being told that, yeah, this, we like the concept. We like what you're doing. This seems cool, but you're not worth our time because it's such a small company. Yeah. You reach out to these medical engineers who, you know, work for like big companies are spending millions of dollars of revenue. Like, yeah, we're just two travel nurses. Yeah. Like, but you had a good idea too. Cause like you're saying these big medical companies and like, they've got bigger, bigger things to do. But a lot of the equipment that we have in the hospital from them doesn't exactly work

just right and I think it's interesting that um like I always say you know who made these hospital beds it wasn't someone who worked in the hospital because half the time they don't work how we should how they should so it's interesting that they're like no no no you don't know well I think it's more from like a volume perspective so you know we're two just surfer travel nurses who you know we don't know we didn't know what we were doing but it you know it's

We're looking to... Yeah, we have this idea. And I think from their perspective, these guys have no idea what they're doing. They're probably not even anticipating how much it's going to cost, let alone being able to dump millions of dollars into production. So for them, I think it's more of just a volume thing. Okay, cool. Like...

We think it'll work. We wish you the best of luck, but you're not for us. And we heard that over and over and over again. Being told no, I feel like, what is that? Every no is closer to the first yes or whatever. That's what they say, yeah. That's what they say. But I mean, finally, it seemed to have happened. Yeah, yeah. So we eventually finally found an engineer company out of LA that was willing to take us on. And they're really good, really experienced engineers. But you can tell that they had just formed their own company.

Like their own company. So they were... It looked like they were just looking to add things to the portfolio. So it gave us a chance. Yeah. And yeah, we ran with it. But it was good. It was like timing. I guess timing is everything sometimes. Yeah, timing was good. It... I can't even... I don't remember when we actually got started with that. I guess...

Five or six months after we started the corporation, probably close to a year after we started designing is when we finally found an engineer to help us out. Do you find it's hard finding other like-minded people, like entrepreneurial or especially in healthcare? I think people have...

a very misleading idea of what it's like to be an entrepreneur and to have, like people have great ideas all the time. And when you tell people about this, it's always like, Oh, I wish I would've thought of that or something. But like, I don't think people understand the amount of where it's literally a lifestyle. It changes your life because you're consumed by it 24 seven. Yeah. And so I just think that,

People have... Everyone has an idea on how to make something that's outdated in the hospital work. But I don't think people really understand the actual commitment it takes. Yeah. I totally understand, though, the frustrations with, like, delays and, I guess...

Like with our company, we have a lot of things that we've been working on, but it just takes so long. Like it takes a long time to change something in our app and then to get it out there to people and then change the new thing or there's a bug. Exactly. There's so much that goes into it. You're right. Yeah. You know, you have your own app and you guys put so much detail into making sure everything's perfect. Then it just takes a third party, like someone who's using like, well, this thing doesn't make sense. Oh, yeah. You're like.

shit, how come I didn't think about that? You know, what if I just spent the last two years designing this and it's such an obvious mistake. That's literally what you said something earlier that made me remember, like people, people don't understand a lot of the ins and outs that happen, but our first year at TrapCon, I think it was 2021. And we had a guy come up to our booth and he said, he was just looking around and he said, this is a really dumb name. And I said, wow, thank you so much. Is that all you came over here to say? And he was like,

Yeah, pretty much. It's crazy because people do come up to the booths. We do a ton of conferences now and they'll come up and then make some kind of comment like that. Like, well, that's dumb or like that.

That doesn't make sense. I'm like, okay, well, clearly it does because it's a very rapidly growing company. Right. And because you don't understand, it doesn't mean it's a dumb idea. Right. I don't know. It's just like. It's strange. Like, I would never go up to someone and just be like, I hate you. Yeah. That's what it feels like. Yeah, exactly. It's like, this is my baby. I guess it's like, you probably feel the same way. It's like, it's kind of like a little personal. Like, I just spent my whole, like, literally took my entire life. It's extremely personal. To change my life to make this thing work. Yeah. You know, if it's just an employee, like, okay, cool, whatever. Yeah.

But yeah, so yeah, it's interesting how people just, they just don't know. They don't know what it takes. They don't. What are future plans for Firefly? We have a lot of things in the works right now. Education is a big part of it. We do a lot of teaching. We're developing...

It was to be announced next year, hopefully. But we are actually expanding our education outside of just vascular access. So we're going to be designing more educational material, more educational courses for all things pediatrics, not just putting IVs in babies. We're going to do some respiratory courses. I'm actually working with a pediatric...

OT that we're actually developing like a whole special needs and autism course to help nurses execute care more efficiently for kids with special needs. Yeah. And so we have a lot more education things and then a couple of

ideas for new models of Firefly coming out as well. That's really cool because, you know, obviously we both went to nursing school, but they just briefly touch on these topics of like pediatrics. I don't even remember anything about it except we talked about kids because now I'm not in that world. But when you tell someone like from the general public, oh, I'm a nurse.

And they asked me something about their kid. And I'm like, oh, no, no. I thought you were a nurse. I'm like, no, I am a nurse. But these are different specialties. They don't know. So that's really cool that you're like diving into specific things. Yeah. And a lot of it stemmed from being a travel nurse and working in multiple different adult hospitals. Because the biggest focus is people think that you don't see kids at an adult hospital in an ER. But it's the emergency room. So I can't remember the exact numbers. Don't quote me. I can get the numbers later. But the...

The CDC does reports on like patient volumes, for instance. And I can't remember the exact number, but I want to say it's like 21% of all patients that go to ERs in the United States are pediatrics.

And then you break that number down even further when you break it down to the demographics of what's the most frequently visited population or frequently frequent. The population that visits the ER most frequently are actually kids under one years old. And I believe the report was for every hundred kids, 104 visits to the ER happens. Or I'm sorry, for every hundred kids under a year old, there's 104 ER visits. Oh. So...

It's a population that I think gets overlooked in adult hospitals. And as a traveler, I really saw that there was a lot of gaps in care for populations for kids in adult hospitals because people just aren't educated enough to...

um on how to care for kids okay okay that's why they want you to have your pals to work here exactly no 100 makes sense and especially like you know hospitals that if there's a children's hospital down the street but you gotta think like there's hospitals where yeah there's a great children's hospital an hour away but there's a local smaller hospital 10 minutes from your house you're not going to drive your kid an hour at three in the morning no when you're exhausted because they've been sick for four days like you're going to go to the closest hospital right that

That's interesting, yeah, because I'm ICU, adult ICU, but I've always thought about switching to ER. I feel like I would thrive there in a sense, but then sometimes I'm like, no, it's too scary, it's too scary. But the kids make me really nervous. Yeah, they're... It's someone's kid! I feel the... I can appreciate that feeling for adult nurses because I felt the exact opposite when I went to adults for the first time. And I have like a giant human that I'm like, what do I do with this? A giant baby! I remember the first time my first...

I think it was my first shift in adult ER. And there's some kind of code going on. I don't remember. It doesn't matter. But they assumed that I was like a real nurse. I was just precepting in this adult hospital. I mean, I was a real nurse, but I wasn't an adult nurse.

And there's like some kind of trauma or code going on. And this nurse hands me an IV, she's like, start an IV and hands me a 20 gauge. And I had never used a 20 gauge needle before. And I was like freaking out. I'm like, what do I do with this giant thing? Because I've never put a 20 gauge in my career. And so I can appreciate that, that.

like intimidation factor for something you're not used to, like working with a tiny child for your first time. That's not anything I would have ever thought of that you've not worked with. Like it makes sense though. Like what do you put in this? What would you put in this little baby? So, um,

I can't really speak 100% for NICU because we just started appreciating how unique NICU is. And I've hired a couple of NICU nurse practitioners that come to conferences and I've learned so much from them. So for ER standpoint, we only have the smallest gauge we have are 24 gauges. And so I like to teach when I'm teaching classes at my hospital or at conferences is

I like to use the 24. There's a shorter gauge as a shorter catheter length and then a longer one. It's like 14 millimeters versus 19. So 19 I usually use for kids that are like over one month old because they grow so much in that first month. And one month and below, I typically will use the shorter catheter because you got to think, you know, the anatomy is so different. And if you're putting IV in a hand or wherever, you got to take into consideration bifurcations and valves and things like that. So the shorter distance makes it a lot easier to advance your catheter. So that's true.

And I believe I just saw at a conference, they make 26 gauges. I'm like, I don't. That's tiny. I know. And I guess I have to reach out to my NICU staff that we hired this year to kind of get more information on that. Because I went to one NICU conference. I'm like, this is way out of my league. Because we designed this from a PDR's perspective. I didn't realize how small these kids are and just what a specialty. I would have.

never thought and that's like a big NICU kit that that doll compared to the size of some of them that I've learned about at these conferences it's just I wouldn't even know what to do I would not know what to do it for those listening not watching I have a dummy so these are called I feel like that's not the right word a doll a doll I have a NICU doll in my hand and it fits in my hand but

they're smaller than this. I mean, that's just crazy. That's crazy that this exists. Obviously, I knew NICU exists, but like, I just, I'm not in that world at all. Yeah, I realized it real fast at the, we went to the NICU, I can't, the National Association for NICU Nurses, a conference, a national conference in Florida this year. And we're rolling in with our other dolls, the one you have next to you, because that's what we've been teaching at all the emergency conferences. And I'm like,

Holy crap, our dolls are huge. And like everyone had these NICU sized dolls. And it like never really dawned on me that like, I mean, we see newborns in the ER. Yeah. But like full term newborns are huge compared to NICU babies. So just a huge appreciation for what NICU nurses do because it's, you know,

Everything's just so tiny. You have to be so precise with like your motor skills. It's just, it's amazing. You would. Like can you drink caffeine and give an IV? Because there's no way. I mean, and you just poke through the arm. I would just be shaking from fear, to be honest. I don't want to be around a baby this small ever in my life at all.

I don't think. You should get a NICU nurse to come and talk about. I should. On the podcast. That'd be great to just hear the perspective. There's a girl I would like to meet. Her name is Tia as well. Not that Tia, but this Tia. She's a NICU nurse. And some of her stories, I'm like, how? They're just so tiny. Like, I just...

Just another world. Yeah, she's super sweet. I've had a couple of meetings with her and her whole team that they have there that she works with, they're amazing. So, so invested in education. That's really cool. I do think one day when my back goes out on me from turning adult ICU patients that maybe the NICU will be where I go. Because like, can you imagine turning this?

You know? Yeah. Like versus my whole back. Do they turn? I mean, I'd be afraid. You're like, don't do that. That's what they say though. They say that the babies aren't as fragile as you think. Yeah. Well, I know from like ER perspective, people always like,

they're afraid to touch like babies when you're doing stuff. Like you're not going to break them. They're fine. But I'm assuming it's the same for NICU. Like, I don't know. I don't know. It's pretty, pretty tiny. Yeah. NICU is funny too, because actually Tia posted this on her Instagram at one point and I was cracking up because it was like some kind of video talking about it being a cult. Cause she's like, oh, everyone here is happy. And I remember my first time walking a kid from the ER to the NICU for an admit. And at the hospital, we had to walk all the peds patients to the floor. And I went to the NICU and this was during COVID and

And everyone was just like in such a good mood. And I was like, oh, the baby is so cute. And I walked out. I'm like, what the hell was that? I'm used to being in the ER where everyone's like 90% of people were in a bad attitude because like you're just getting dumped on and the patients treat you like crap. And I was just like, the charger was like, oh, how's Nikki? I'm like, it's weird up there. Everyone's all happy. I don't get it. Something's wrong out there. It was super funny. That is funny. I didn't think that like, that sound like, is this the cult? Yeah. But I hear like,

NICU and labor and delivery are like the happiest places you can work in nursing from what I'm told. That's what I'm told too. And there will always be a L&D nurse that says, no, I don't like it. But most of them love it there. It should be like a pool. Yeah, we should do a pool. How happy are you? Like when you do a survey, like how likely are you to recognize a friend?

I feel like you're right. Yeah. NICU and I think PICU too. I feel like PICU gets a good, a good rap. I feel like PICU would be sad. Like chronic kids and things like that. That's why I didn't go that route. But like, so would NICU, right? I mean.

They seemed really happy. I don't know. If you didn't do ER, what would you do? Oh, man, I've always, always wanted to do labor and delivery. Really? Yeah. And that was what I wanted to do as a new grad. And I just chose not to because I just felt being a male nurse and being such a specialty, if I change my mind, it might be hard to get out of it. And so I landed in pediatrics. I mean, that's cool. I honestly, you're right, though. I don't see a lot of male L&D nurses. I know they exist. Yeah.

But I, I actually, I know of one and he has told me that he gets fired from more rooms. Oh, really? I can imagine. Just from being a guy. Cause like they're uncomfortable. Yeah. A hundred percent. And I was, it's funny. I was actually just listening to your podcast episode with Anna recently. Oh yeah. And when you guys are going through a bunch of questions, I'm like, Oh,

I hope there's a question about like asking about male nurses and labor and delivery. Oh, yeah. I know I didn't. Don't worry. I'll have her on again. Okay, cool. I'll ask her. No, because I have friends who've done labor and delivery. They say they have male nurses and they're great. Yeah. Yeah. But if I ever leave ER, I'm leaning towards labor and delivery or pediatric oncology. That's really cool. That's something else I would be interested in as like a backup plan. Wow. Very cool. You want to walk me through the details of Firefly? Yeah. So we'll just go over a couple of things and make it unique because there are about, I

probably about a dozen different products on the market that essentially have the same goal. You know, they're transliminators. It's a real simple concept. But what makes Firefly super unique is that Evan and I hand designed this from our pediatric experience. And we took into consideration things that were missing from other ones and what we can do to improve how well this works. So, we'll grab the babe. So, a couple of the features on here. One of them that we thought was super important was...

We actually didn't really take into whole lot of consideration how much people were going to love it. But we were just, you know, we're surfers and climbers. We live our lives in the outdoors. Well, we live our lives in the outdoors and we think it's important to like make things sustainable. So, we added a USB rechargeable battery. Oh, yeah. A USB-C battery. And that was more because like, oh, less waste. We don't have to waste batteries. And then it just turned out like we didn't realize we're like one of the only products that has single or reusable batteries. Oh. And I found out why later. It's mostly because of how strict shipping is with batteries.

I learned that because we're again with some international stuff, but, um,

And so, that's one feature that we added. The studded surface was a cool design that Evan and I came up with that when babies are diaphoretic, the existing translumers tend to slip out of the baby's hands or feet or wherever you're starting the IV. And this creates traction. And I actually learned from NICU nurses that it works really well for newborns when they have to go to complex deliveries. They don't have to like completely dry off the baby to get access. It grips real well. So, yeah.

That was like a side bonus. We never thought of that. It was mostly for diaphoretic kiddos. And then there's actually one of my favorite features is there's a built-in thermal sensor into the product that we had our engineers design. So if it detects heat, it'll turn it off to protect the baby's skin because we had read reports of other products that left burn marks on baby's skins. And so we thought that was important to incorporate that. And the kind of cool thing, and so it's small enough. It's one of the, I think it might be the smallest transliminator device

If I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty certain it is. But if there's another one out there, maybe someone can drop it in the chat because I would love to see if there's something smaller. But I'm pretty sure it's the smallest one. So, for ER, you have typically infants, it fits well in the baby's hand so you can wrap their hand around it. And when you turn it on, it has multi-lumen setting. So, the first lumen is designed for your newborn babies, your NICU kiddos. And then as it goes up and gets brighter...

It will get brighter. So the first setting, I believe it's seven lumens for your NICU babies and your newborns.

And as it gets brighter, it's designed for your dark skin kiddos and your heavier babies. So, that way all the kids that you have to see, it'll work well for them. So, those are kind of like the main features. And what we learned through the NICU conferences is this is like the go-to is the hands for your infant babies. But for your smaller babies, like your newborns, like for instance, this is a little bit more equivalent to like a newborn baby, like a term newborn baby.

That you can hold the product. I like to use the wrist when I'm putting IVs and it's small enough where you can hold the light perpendicular onto the baby's skin and you can use it for the wrist or you can use it for the ACs or for the feet. I like to use the feet a lot, like the lateral foot or even the top of the foot here.

for newborns, but I've learned from NICU, because I'm like, how? It's small, but can I borrow the NICU, babe? And what I've learned from some of the NICU nurses that use it is that it works really well and that you hold the vein light sideways on the baby.

It fits perfectly over the arm or the leg because they put IVs in like the knees and like the shoulders and all these crazy spots. Nurse practitioners use it for their pick lines. They'll put it inside of a sterile glove because the other ones have cords and it'll cross the sterile field and compromise their sterile field.

So, we found that we originally just thought of it as an ER product and then it like just exploded in the NICU world. And we learned a lot about how NICU nurses are using it so that we can educate better on, you know, those smaller babies and things like that. That is super cool. So far, we're going to do it. Yeah, let's get you to try it.

I know we already talked about this, but now I want one for adults. I know. Well, the density, that's one thing. The density difference between the adults and kids makes it so hard. So, yeah, you're going to hold it. The hands are the go-to for the infants. Yeah.

And so you'll hold it. I always tell people, don't turn on until you have it under the hand because it's so bright. It's so bright. It's really hard to put an eye view when you're seeing spots. That is crazy. So what you'll want to do is you'll, you want to hold it like if you turn the baby facing you, that way you kind of with your non-dominant hand, you'll kind of put it in your, on your middle finger and then use your thumb to wrap the fingers around it and flex the wrist down. Okay.

Can you tell I've never worked with kids? - So when you're doing that, you're gonna flex the wrist down and what you're doing is you're controlling that adipose tissue. So if you can imagine, you're trying to put an IV in a baby that has a lot of baby fat,

It's going to have some resistance on the skin if you don't control that baby fat. And when the needle finally breaks the skin, it's like a little slingshot and you can go right through the bottom of the vein, which you can imagine is already a small target. So, by manipulating, by flexing the wrist and rolling the fingers down, you're really controlling that baby fat to make it nice and taut so your needle advances really smoothly. And it also stabilizes the vein because it's controlling the baby fat, making it tighter so the vein's not wiggling around. Not going to roll on you. Yep.

That is crazy. And then if you wanted to, like if you had a heavier kid or dark skin kid, you can press that red button and it'll get brighter for your darker kids and for your heavier babies. Oh, wow. Yeah, that is bright. That would blind me. Yeah. Which you'll be amazed. Like some of my favorite kids put IDVs in are like the real chunky babies. Yeah. But it's really necessary to have that high. I think it's 29 lumens at the highest setting. Wow.

I mean, that is really impressive. I think that's so cool that you guys came up with this. And like you said, just for your niche, but then it exploded into other specialties that need it just as bad. Yeah, and it's crazy. So we just put on...

I put on Amazon earlier this year just as like a trial just to see, you know, that's where a lot of people like to shop. That's where people, you know, it's a credible company and it's one more resource. Like, well, let's just try it. We've been number one bestselling vein finder on Amazon for I think four months in a row now. Oh my God. Yeah, it's like kind of cool watching this like crazy idea that you had in your garage and now it's in clinical practice in all 50 states and there's a couple thousand of them out there like truly changing the lives of kids, helping nurses get their IVs on first attempt, which is like,

insane to think about you know three years ago four years ago when I just accidentally did this that we that we're it's truly changing that you're out where you're at it's crazy it's like no congrats it's such a cool thing to to know that nurses are trusting something that

that we've put so much thought into. And it's an American-made product, which is also really important to us for quality control and things like that too. You told me earlier that you have a waitlist for Canadian nurses. We do. They're like, give us these now. Yeah, we have a long waitlist actually of international from mostly Australia, New Zealand, and Canada. And we are in the process right now. We can't disclose it yet and who we're working with.

But we're in quality analysis and hopefully in the next coming months or so, hopefully early 2025, we'll be distributing in Canada as piloting our first international country. And then if that goes well, we have some plans to

take it global from there. That is so cool. I'm excited to see how far this goes. I mean, and I got to say I met you and hey, he was on my podcast. That's number two. Vegas the first time. Yeah, exactly. So I think we jumped around, but I want to know about financing, funding. How did you guys go about that? Yeah, so

That's a topic I wish we researched and understood a lot more before we started. Because, I mean, it's a real simple concept. It's a fancy medical grade flashlight. So, we were like, oh, yeah, we can get this done in like 50 grand. You know, we were traveling at that time. And we were living in our camper vans. We were traveling, taking contracts. And, you know, we had no rent really. And we were paying for like campsites here and there or whatever. But we took all the money we were making during COVID, which was like peak money.

travel funds. No one will ever see that again in our lifetime. I think it's so, so sad. But we, you know, we took the money and we invested into Firefly. But we wish, I wish looking back at it now that we knew about grants and all these startup companies. It's funny because I was applying for business loans as, you know, now I'm the new owner of the company. And we actually got denied from every bank because the company was technically almost two years old.

But it had no revenue because most of it was research and development. And we had sold some product and made some decent revenue. But they're like, well, this on paper shows that you're a company losing money consistently for two years. I'm like, well, do you guys understand? This is not like a restaurant where you just put the money in and you just go. It's research and development. It's a medical device company. And even though making good money as a travel nurse had amazing credit score, couldn't get a business loan. And so it was kind of like a...

A hard decision, but I believe in this so much at the time. This is before it became like kind of a mainstream. Not me. I don't want to say mainstream because it's not mainstream, but it's getting there. It is. Before it became popular and people saw the clinical application of it, it's still a leap of faith. Like it can fail at any moment. Yeah.

And so I finally like decided like, I can't get a loan. I'm now a hundred percent responsible for this company. And so I sold my house and I invested all the capital from my house into the business to keep it alive. And that was just enough to make it to the launch of the product. Cause when, even at the launch of the product, it was like, if this launch doesn't go well, this company is going to be done. And luckily, thankfully the new version was,

people loved it. It got really good reviews and it's been getting a lot of, a

a lot of recognition as one of the preferred products now for IVs and kids. So, but yeah, that was the biggest thing, the biggest risk, I think, aside from like, whatever, losing money as a traveler is fine. I'll go make more money. I'll go pick up another contract, but. Selling your house is crazy. But like you said, you know, great reward. What is it? Big risk comes with great reward, something like that. I always butcher phrases, so don't mind that. But

Is that when you moved into a van? No. So we were already doing that. We were just, we were already doing that because we just wanted, you know, we're just rock climbers and surfers. We didn't like whatever. So we're just going to do it. So we've, he was already doing it. I just, when I started traveling, I did it as well. But no, no, I ended up selling my house in Southern California and moving to Tennessee. Wow. Because California is just not a business friendly state.

And in order to truly see this thing through, like I mentioned earlier, like it's a full life commitment. Like sold my place, moved to Tennessee. I've never even been to Tennessee in my life. Oh, I've been to Nashville once for like a night, but that's like saying you've been to Nevada and went to Vegas. It doesn't count. It's not the same. And so, yeah, moved to Tennessee, never stepping foot in East Tennessee and established a distribution center out there and moved the corporation in Tennessee and just took

the biggest leap of faith in my life. Yeah. And yeah, so it's paying off. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's funny because it does well, like as far as, I mean, we're talking about business, you know, but I'm actually, I'm, I can say I'm the only person in the history of the company. I've never actually taken a dollar of payment from it. All my shares that I get, I reinvest it into more research, more events and things like that because I have my job, I have my per diem job still. So, um,

I still work as a nurse and the clinical difference it's making in the quality of care in kids to me is way more important than any of the financial gains. And yeah, I was willing to change my life for it. And it's cool because now it truly is. And the reviews we have are just insane. The people talking about their first attempt IVs and parents will come on our website and leave reviews saying how much their care of their kids was improved.

different from the last time they were there and things like that, which is really cool. That is really cool. I mean, you're right. Earlier you said, you know, like a lot of people don't understand, like you didn't understand, I didn't understand, my husband didn't understand when we first started a business just how much money, how much boots on the ground is about to go into that. And

I think people underestimate it or sometimes they'll see this and they'll be like, oh, you just threw this together. And it's like, no, this has been years in the making money. So much money has been put into this. So like, it's your baby. It is. It really is. It's my house in your hand. But, but yeah, and also like, you know, we, we, we, it was really important to me like personally, but to make American made products, I want to keep the jobs in America. I want to like keep everything.

keep as much of the business in the United States and that comes with the price. You know, it's, yeah, we can make that in China or, you know, Taiwan or one of these Asian countries for a fraction of what we do there. But, but the big thing was what's the quality control sacrifice? Like, are they going to meet the same standards as the U S and,

I mean, I can imagine if we like made this, okay, we'll save some money on the front end by producing it cheaper overseas, but then a child gets hurt because the battery catches on fire or something like that. Like the quality control in the United States is just unmatched. And so we've, luckily we have thousands of these in clinical practice now and we've never had an incident the date of any type of event where any child's been harmed or any staff's been harmed. So,

Yeah, there's, it's a lot of cool things that this little thing does. I know it's, it's, it's cool. It's, it's making a difference, but yeah, it's, it's just, you, you just don't know when you're new and I wish, you really don't show it. And that's my biggest advice to any aspiring entrepreneurs. Like before you get started first protected and you'll get your trademarks and your patents paperwork established. But after that, like look into funding because there's so much free money out there. There's so many grants and things like that, that you can.

can get for these types of things that's something we didn't know either and even like talking to you now i'm like oh yeah we still need to look at grants and like there's just so many ways to get money besides like a business loan because we couldn't get one either yeah same thing right you can get you can buy a hundred thousand dollar car and they won't bat an eye right but you want to like invest in your own future it's like no no we couldn't either that's why we had to use our own money and we thought the same thing well we can always if it if everything fails it's

I like to do like the what if scenario and go through every single thing. And what's the worst thing that could happen is it would fail and we'd move back home and go back to our staff jobs. That's the worst thing. And that's really not that bad. So it's like...

It could be worse. And I 100% agree because I say that all the time too. It's like, you know, worst case... I say this kind of jokingly, but it's not funny because it's true. But I was like, worst case scenario, I just lost the house. But realistically, like, imagine if you took out a quarter million dollar business loan and then it fails. Now you're going to spend the rest of your existence paying off a failed company. Where at least with this, we fronted the cash. I took measures into...

reinvesting my shares back into the company and things like that. So worst case scenario, it still can fail at any moment. But at least I'm not in debt to anyone. Yeah, very true. Which is nice. So yeah, I agree. You're free in that sense. Yeah, I had that thought many times. Like, well, if this fails...

At least I don't owe money to banks or friends or family and things like that. Very true. And I feel like that's something like a lot of people are scared to take risks because of the failures that could come. And honestly, the failures that will come because part of success is like you're going to fail at something, but it's all about learning. And like people, you just have to put your ego aside because your ego is like, for me, I'm like, well, we have to be the best, but you're not going to be the best without failing a little bit. And that's a huge part right there. So, you know, there's people who are willing to help out.

And some people are very resistant to help. And it's like,

I've offered help to other people who are entrepreneurs or things that like these types of venues like want to start up a business and somebody it's like it's hard to accept help when you're like no this is my idea I got this under control like okay well I tried yeah exactly you know I don't think we opened up the door for anyone to help because we didn't really we weren't public about it at all yeah we just did it and then we just did like a silent launch yeah and a couple of co-workers and friends knew what we were doing but we never like made

Made it public until TravCon. That was like, we did everything. Launched social media, launched everything at one time. That is so crazy. And so now looking back, like, man, if I would have like...

hyped up in the beginning maybe we could have got some but you can't be in that you can't look back of course of course of course but can't get in that mindset but for future entrepreneurs yeah tell them look at your resource see who's willing to help yeah and honestly you're right because the entrepreneurial entrepreneurial circle they're very supportive and you're right like take the help that they that they offer because

I already mentioned Anthony, but Anthony, again, from Lumify. If you guys don't know who he is, you should look him up. He's so helpful. And it was like refreshing whenever I met him. He's like, anything you guys need, if you guys need a meeting to go about this. And I'm like, yeah.

Is he messing with me right now that he's being so genuine? And I got to say, I actually met Anthony the first time at the same TravCon 2022. You had seen Firefly for the first time. But that dude has a talent, though. Like, his personality is just a marketing genius. Yes. He can walk into any environment and he can cruise around, does his interviews. And, man, that guy has the personality to build anything. He does. And he's...

Just very inspirational when it comes to the creativity of his marketing. Absolutely. That's what we say all the time. I'm like, he is so creative. Well, what are you most proud of from this venture? I think the thing I'm most proud of is that it's making a difference in the quality of care of kids. And that was the whole goal from the beginning.

Um, that seeing those consistencies and missed IVs and not just for the patient, you know, obviously it's not fair. No one wants to poke a baby with a needle more than once, but the nurses, the nurses are stressed out because they're not comfortable in that environment. The parents are stressed out because it's their child that you're getting about to, they're sick. They don't feel good to begin with. And yeah,

And no matter how you look at things, like there's, you know, the whole BLS and, you know, all the acronyms on what's the quality or whatever, the higher priority care. But what it comes down to, like if you're in a code or any type of true emergency, if you don't have access, ABCs go out the window. Yeah. Like, yeah, they're important. You're going to keep them. But how long can you do that without actually solving the problem? Yeah. And knowing that this product is in the hands of thousands of nurses around the country and we have minimal returns. Yeah.

And people just, we get messages on Instagram, we get messages on Facebook, on our websites, on Amazon reviews. And it's truly changing healthcare for kids. And that's the goal. And my goal is,

is to make this the standard of practice for vascular access. It's like, let it be known that there's a product out there that's affordable and that's easy to teach. And we created all the education. We have videos, we have PDFs on our website. They're all free to download. So the goal is to change healthcare and make it the standard of practice. Yeah. I mean, that's awesome. I'm really impressed. I'm so happy to have met you again. Thank you. If you guys are looking for Firefly, they're on Amazon, but we're going to have a link in our description as well.

We're doing a giveaway next year for a few of them. So there's a lot of fun stuff coming. And you kind of already said this, but what's one piece of advice you would give to someone who's looking into entrepreneurship? I think the biggest piece of advice is just like, don't rush into it. I mean, it's a great idea. Like if you have a great idea, do a lot of research. Because I think the mistakes, the mistakes that we made with Firefly,

Could have been detrimental to the company. Like it could have went under at any moment because some of the mistakes were so big, but they were preventable. So I just think take your time, do the research. I mean, I guess again, look into funding, man. There's so much free money out there with grants, especially for research. But I think we just stalled for so long and then we're like, okay, we're going to do it. And we're just jumped all in. But I think this...

slow down a little bit or, and even ask people for advice, but protect your stuff, put your patents in, put your trademarks in. Cause it's a cutthroat world out there, man. The business of, of these types of things. Some people, their, their, their best interests are not in the patients. It's in the, the outcome of revenue. Yeah. So protect yourself and ask questions and slow down. I love that. Well, before we head out, I'm going to read you those new grad stories and we'll see what you think about them because I,

I think new grad stories are one of my favorite things to read. I was good. I don't really have one. My, my funny story was going to be the 20 gauge IV in my first adult patient. Cause I was, it wasn't a new grad, but I was freaking out. I mean, honestly, it makes sense why you'd be like how on earth, but that's when you say it to me, I'm like, no, that's, that's what we, that's what I grabbed every single time. Scary. Like I said, my friend Tia, she was telling me that she's a PDR nurse and they put IVs in their head. And I'm like, what? Yeah.

In their head and like their feet. And for feet, for adults, we have to have a doctor's order to even attempt it. Yeah, I never, I mean, all the children's also worked. I've never seen one done. All right. As a new grad, I had the task of giving my first suppository to a patient for constipation.

I had the patient turn to the perfect Sims position and partially covered for modesty, privacy, and comfort. Even kept lights dim for relaxation. As I inserted the suppository, she said, that is not it. I had put the suppository in her vagina by accident and I was mortified. I now make sure my orientees know how to have the room well lit and pay attention to which hole you're going in. I'd be mortified. Yeah.

I would be mortified. Absolutely. I would be mortified.

It happens. It happens. I mean, I don't know. Yeah, it's like my mom bad. I know you're a new grad. You don't want to get up in there, but you got to get up in there and see where you're going. You do. Honestly, I feel like the thing with patient care is, yes, you have to make sure that their dignity is intact and you're doing everything you can to make them feel comfortable. But at the end of the day, you got to put it in the right place. And so you might have to use a flashlight or something. It is part of it. One of my favorite things to tell. The mood setting part of that story was pretty funny. Yeah.

Like, it is just something that this isn't the first story I've had like this either. So it happens. Yeah. And it's going to happen. Even Anna. Yes. I'm pretty sure she was checking a cervical. Yeah. Yeah. Cervical dilation. And she went in the booty. Wrong hole. But, you know, luckily the patient was numb down there. So she didn't feel it.

Do you have an embarrassing new grad story that you can think about? I can't think of like a new, I was pretty comfortable as a new grad because of all the EMS experience. So it was,

I can't think of anything. Honestly, all those shock factors came when I became an adult nurse because having these giant humans is just so weird to me. I'm so used to working with kids. I was thinking about that on the flight here today, but I couldn't think of anything specific for new grad versus... Or like any, but like you said, the 20-gauge thing. Yeah, that was kind of freaking me out. And then there was another...

time was in my first week in the adult hospital and there was like a full rest that came in with the paramedics and the dude, I want to say it was like 550 pounds. And I'm just like standing in the corner. Like I wouldn't even know where to like, how much are you getting on these like compressions? And, and, um, I'm just like, I just didn't, I had no idea. Like where would you even start on this? And how do you even evaluate if something's working? Cause I just had never been in that position to see, um,

for one, and then like having this population that's, that, you know, you have to get IVs and you have to like, you know, my whole mind as a PEDS nurse is like weight-based dosing. Like, like how do you even, but then, then I realized, okay, well it's just standard for adults. But yeah, so that, that was just, it was just like these constant, like I've been a nurse for two years, but I was like,

like, what is that? What does that mean? What do you do here? That's so true. You kind of made me remember something and the story is not funny. So let me preface that because people will come after me, but the part after is to me a little funny. I was at the gym one day

I've never said this publicly because it's not appropriate really to say publicly, but I was at the gym one day when I saw a bunch of people running towards something and I was like, who are we running from? So I like get up immediately. I look behind me. I'm like, okay. And I look forward and there's a man on the ground. He had fallen, hit his head. He had a laceration. I ran over there and I was like, oh my God, like I've never done this outside of a hospital. And so I was like,

sir, sir, are you okay? You know, the whole like DLS training. He's not responding. No pulse. Begin CPR. So I began CPR in our gym. This ex-cop comes up. We're going back and forth for about 15 minutes doing CPR. I'm like, you call 911. You grab the AED. It's like a commercial. Oh my God, that's what was going through my head.

But when the ambulance got there, they take over. They got the Lucas machine. They wheel him out. And I'm like, oh, my God, that was, A, such a rush. I couldn't even remember anything.

I started second guessing everything. I called my husband. I was like, this man just went down the gym. I have to start CPR. And I forgot to give him breaths. I forgot breaths. Oh, my God. I was freaking out. Jared was like, Lindsay, we don't give breaths off the field anymore. But like your mind just goes. I was like, but in the hospital, we're giving breaths. So I was like, oh, my God, no one was giving him breaths. Like if he dies, it's our fault. And he was like, no, you don't give breaths out there. And I was like, oh, yeah.

We're good. We're good. But it's one of those times that you're just like, whoa. I think they still teach that, though, in the basic BLS. I don't know if they did. Not out. Not in the field. Because no one really has a mask these days, and you don't want mouth-to-mouth. I looked it up after because I was like, I don't think it's true. I don't think it's right. Yeah, because I feel like I just saw... Anyways, maybe not. I don't know. I thought they were like... To some degree, they were still teaching the mouth-to-mouth part, but I'm like, I thought that was phased out. I think it's phased out because, I mean...

In the moment, I didn't get breast, but you know. See, it's like the muscle memory. It is. Just roll right through it. It is. It is. Okay, I have another one for you. This story is from when I was a student actually at clinical. Another student and I were doing a bed change and bath on a stroke patient who had hemiparasite.

hemiparesis. There we go. That's embarrassing. Who had hemiparesis and only used one word at a time to communicate. So as we were finishing up, he's butt naked. We didn't get the gown on yet. He says, bathroom, bathroom. So I'm like, oh, okay. Where's the urinal? Where's the urinal? At this point, frantically searching the room for the urinal that was not present while he's repeatedly saying bathroom. I'm like, oh my God, we're just going to have to cover him up with

I mean, logically it makes sense, you know, like...

plug it up yeah i mean it's like it's still gonna come out just like all over your hand i guess but i think that only works for bleeding in like the hospital setting like not urine that's funny i thought that's very funny too that's all i got for you yeah that's great gotta love those uh new grad days oh yeah and stuff and you're just trying to do your best and something happens that no one taught you in school try not to kill anyone try not to get in trouble try not to plug someone's penis it's a little weird yeah

I keep that in mind next time one of the ER patients are peeing on the floor. Just like point it away from you. I learned this in Arizona at the podcast. Yeah. Well, that's all I have for you today. Well, thanks so much. I really appreciate you having me. Yeah. This has been fun. It was nice to meet you. Everyone go to the description. His links for his social media will be there along with a link to purchase your own Firefly. And hopefully some more fun stuff will be coming next year. Yeah, I think so. Awesome. Cool. Thanks so much. You're welcome. Bye, guys. Bye.

you