How to Choose: Erin Claire Jones on Decision Making in Career & Relationships & How Human Design Can Help
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So much of how things arise for us are from these really authentic invitations where somebody sees us really clearly. And it's true of every part of our lives. And I think that I continue to resist it and I continue to be reminded over and over again that everything is better when I just trust that. Okay. Hi. Welcome back. I am so happy to be here talking to you. You have no idea. Yeah.

One of the best parts of doing this podcast over the years has been the fact that it's led me to meet so many people and introduced me to concepts that I wouldn't have either known about or gotten to go down the rabbit hole of learning more about. And I think that's

the really interesting experience of getting to talk to people who defined those concepts or wrote books about them and ask that person whatever I'm curious about and research them and really go deep, which I love doing. And today is one of those episodes. Today is one of those days. It's an episode where an old friend is coming back on the podcast and...

I'm stoked because I've known Erin since 2018. Her publicist at the time gifted me a free human design reading with her that's called a blueprint and I was honestly skeptical, which we talk about in here, and I had such a great experience with Erin.

And it led to not only our friendship, but it led to me learning and growing so much from what she helped me with and guided me towards. And then also we did two live events, live podcast episodes in New York. And it was a really special time in my life, which we talk about a little bit. I look back on it so fondly and we kept in touch over the years and her being

and her career has grown so much since. In her life, she's gotten married, she's had children, and now she's written this book, and she's one of the leading experts in human design. And her content and coaching has, and now her book has helped people

Hundreds of thousands of people overcome their biggest obstacles and find more ease and work in their life in general. And she makes these personalized guides that have been purchased by people in over 160 countries. And she spoke on stages all over the world. And she's been featured in Forbes and Elle and Vogue and Instagram.

Allure and Nylon and the Sunday Times and so many more places and she's here now she has a new book called How Do You Choose which is about making decisions in relationships and in career and we get into all of that and more I got to read an early copy which was a real honor and privilege and I loved it and we talk about it and this my feelings towards it and at one point I was like I gotta tone it down because I don't want this to like

I don't want to seem like I like it too much to turn people, you know, like I had to, I wanted to reel it in a little bit, but the point is, you know, I can't hide how much I loved it, which is a bunch. And the only regret I have about this is, and you'll hear pretty soon because it's pretty high up in the episode, but I picked out several excerpts that I highlighted and loved and

when I read it and I wanted to read one of them so you could hear it. And I, I did, but I wish I'd had her read it because it's about her and it's in, in her voice and it would have been really cool to have her read it. But I, I, I, I read it in a second. So you'll hear that, but I'm just really grateful that Aaron's here. Thank you for being here and being back listening. And I'm so sorry for ghosting you. I, I,

Put out an episode months ago and I said I would be back. And I think I even said I'd be back perhaps quite soon with a follow-up part two of that conversation with some of the parts I cut out. But it was a really special episode and I'm sorry for it taking me a full month to post about it and return here with a fresh episode. But I'm back and it's just the way the cookie crumbled and I'm glad that you're somehow back here too.

I'm stoked for you to listen to this one. And if you did listen to the last one, I'm so happy you did. And if you didn't, go back and listen to it. It's a really wild story that my friend Christopher tells me. And now on to today's episode with my friend Erin Claire Jones. Okay, here we go. I know so many of them are filmed now, which is cool too, but I don't know. I like this.

But I'm pretty sure the other first two that we did were events, were live podcasts. They were all live podcasts. They were so fun. That was such a special time in my life when we were both in New York and we got to talk about human design with an audience. And we were talking a little bit before I pressed record and I was saying,

All of these things I was feeling about reading Aaron's incredible book. And then I was like, this is definitely all things that should be recorded. But I was reflecting on meeting you at the beginning of, of the book, essentially at the beginning of what you, what you spoke about in the book. And I,

I know that everyone is going to love it, but I think particularly for me, I was crying reading the intro because I was able to witness some of that and to be able to even record some of it with you and see you get started in human design with this approach that was really unique to anything out there. And I met you in such a kismet way and was lucky enough to get to have a blueprint from you early on in your career. And

in, you know, your work in human design and nothing has ever made me feel more articulated, but I was aware of human design, but it was your specific approach that really made it resonate with me in a different way. And I've been such a fan and we've kept in touch. We were just saying, you know, over the years and I moved away and you've moved and so much has happened in your life, but I was just so stoked to hear from you and to get to read an early copy of the book. And

I'm just so grateful. So congratulations. Thank you so much. It's so, yeah, it's so wild because you were there at the beginning, you know, and like, it is, it's just wild because it doesn't think it's been that long, but it's also been like lifetimes.

you know, and so it does, it, it feels so vulnerable to like send the book out to anybody. Cause I'm just like, I don't know, like, what is this? And so just having people read it feels really exciting. And yeah, it's just, it's really so fun to reconnect. I loved our podcast episodes all those years ago. And so it's just so fun to be back with you. I know. Oh, same. I,

I hope it's okay, but I have a little excerpt that I, I'd love to read. And I, I'm, I might be one of the, one of the first to read it because we were recording this a bit in advance. It was such an, it was such a privilege and honor and I was just beaming the whole time, but this was the first time where I really perked up. So I want to read it because I think it encompasses, this is from the introduction and the way that the book is formatted is so useful and

I it was funny because I both had the thought reading it where I was like, oh, I'm like surprised this doesn't already exist. Like, I can't imagine a world without your book being in it. And I was also like, this is exactly all those years ago. One question that I would ask so often about what is human design and how to get it to more people.

And I remember us having conversations, and I don't know if you remember this, but for anyone who doesn't know what human design is listening, we'll get into it in a second. And we've got episodes from a few years ago that you can go back to and hear a past version of the response. But before we even tell you that, I would often ask, because I found it so useful, especially through Aaron's lens,

And I felt like a lot of people talk about astrology and a lot of people talk about these other systems. And I remember in one of those conversations asking you, do you ever think it will be more accessible or more mainstream than it is now? And that was 2018, 2019, I think. And reading this book, I was like, oh, this is it. This is how it's going to become more accessible.

And it already has so much over it, even in the last five, six years. I think what I'm about to read really illustrates that. So to set up what I'm about to read, you are.

Meet somebody at a party who tells you about this thing called human design. You're instantly drawn to it and skeptical and you do some research and I'll let you kind of fill in the blanks after this and around it. But then you are considering doing cut to you considering doing human design full time. And so then this is this is what you write.

Human design full-time? Did this feel irresponsible? A little, given an Ivy League education and

and a burgeoning startup career, did it make sense? Not entirely, but did it feel like the best thing for me? Absolutely. Within a year of that fateful night in New York City, I offered readings and produced hyper-personalized guides that I called blueprints for friends and acquaintances. I was one of those people. These guides provided actionable insights into how a person could show up more fully at work,

in love and in life according to their unique design. 10 years later, my company, Human Design Blueprint, has introduced human design to more than 500,000 people. I have shared insights globally at corporate giants and small companies alike and have done one-on-one sessions

for over 3,000 people, including orchestra conductors, professional basketball players, executives, ceramicists, pastry shelves, heart surgeons, psychiatrists, full-time parents, and everyone in between. I have laughed with them, cried with them, and relished those magical moments when I see the ineffable look on their faces screaming, I feel seen.

That is so incredible. And it's truly been wonderful to witness that in the last five years, everything that you've done since we last connected. So how did it feel to have your words read back to you? So weird, you know, and also like, I think that, you know, writing a book is such an interesting process because I think that I had been sharing so much of human design on social media and

over the past many years. And there's like such immediate reaction, you know, where I like know if things resonate or if they don't. And it feels like I'm kind of in this constant dance with my community. But writing a book has been a really different experience because it feels like I felt very isolated. You know, like there are obviously so many stories in the book that come from my community, but I feel like I've just kind of been in my own

And I really am like, is anybody going to like it? Like, is it any good? And so like, it's so funny having these beginning to have these podcast conversations because it feels like the first time that people they're actually reading the book.

And so I think that having it read back to me is just a little bit surreal because I've read those paragraphs so many times. But having somebody else's eyes on them, I'm just like, what? Somebody else is looking at that? But yeah, it's a surreal experience. Yeah.

I'd love for you to take us to the part that I didn't read, the before you were, you know, when I, where I started, you were considering doing this full time and you've grown so much. And, you know, I think what I, the passage I read kind of doubles as qualifying you in this space now, but what I really want people to know who maybe didn't listen to our first couple episodes together and how we originally connected, but

I think one of the many reasons I resonated with you particularly as a human design reader and facilitator was your original skepticism and your approach being so unique to a lot of the ones that I had encountered previously. Could you go back and define human design and tell a little bit about what is a bit earlier in the introduction about how you found out about it from someone you met at a party?

Of course. So human design is a mystical personality assessment that is based on your time, date and place of birth.

And I think of it as a thing that really kind of reveals how we're wired to thrive in every part of our lives from relationships to parenting to career. And it just gives us each our own unique roadmap to finding our flow. You know, I think so often we look at the ways others are doing things, whether it's how they're hosting their podcasts or running their business or parenting or being in a relationship and being like, Oh, it worked for them. Like it'll work for me. And

Human design just reminds us that our wiring is so, so different. And it gives us a language and a framework to think about how are we wired? How are we wired to make decisions and choose what's best for us in every part of our lives? And so that's what it is. I'll say what I fell in love with with human design is how practical it is. I think there are a lot of amazing systems that give us a lot of juicy, cool, and

information about ourselves, but then we don't know what to do with it. And I think human design does this really cool thing where it's like, Oh, here's all this really amazing information. And here are all these ways you can actually integrate it into your day to day in a way that you'll probably experience some pretty serious transformation in every part of your life.

The way I happened upon human design was not, you know, it was so serendipitous. It was in 2015 and I was living in New York city and I went to a friend's party in the Lower East Side and I sat next to a stranger who asked to read my human design chart. And I had never heard of human design, but I was at a moment of transition in my life. And I'm honestly so open to systems like these. So I was like, tell me everything you see. And he proceeded to give me the most, you know,

a reading that made me feel so seen and so confronted all at once. I was like, how did he know so much about me? And also like confronted, I was like, I'm not living any of this. And I think kind of the story that I tell in the introduction is also like,

you know, that I was totally skeptical too. I was like, this all makes sense, but like, am I being calm? Like what is going on? And he ended up inviting me to study human design with him that night, which is really crazy looking back. He was like, you're meant to do this. You should do this. And I was like, what are you talking about? Like, this is so wild. I've never heard of this. Like,

Nobody I know knows of this, but there was something about it that felt really right. And so I said yes to that invitation and it's been a really wild and wonderful 10 years ever since. But I think one thing I'll just say for any skeptics listening, and I say this in the book and I'll say it to the end of time around human design, is that I think what matters most to me is not whether it's true, but whether it's useful.

I think that, you know, I've sat with a lot of teams now and a lot of very skeptical people that are like a system based on your time, date and place of birth. Like, what are you talking about? And yet the information itself is so resonant and so specific and so tactical that they're like, okay, tell me more. So I would just say that, you know, the book is written for those people too. It's not just written for people that love human design. It's written for people that are at some crossroads in their life, trying to figure out the right career, the right relationship, what's next.

and are interested in using any kind of system to kind of help them get to that next step. So I think my goal, and I think you spoke to it really beautifully, is to really help human design reach the mainstream. And it just hasn't yet. You know, it's grown in its awareness in such big ways, but it's still very new. And so I really wanted to write a book that would be accessible to people all across the spectrum.

Yeah. And you're such a pioneer and you are the one I, you are the chosen one to do that. I mean, just by your, your background, like you said, with your Ivy League education and your background working in startups, I feel like that made me feel, you know, it's no problem for me, as you know, I'm,

I have a level of belief in mysticism and I am someone who's influenced by people so much that I'm always like, if, if someone I trust tells me something, I'm like all in. I don't really need to know why, but I don't know if you remember this. I was dating someone at the time when I met you and I got reintroduced to, to human design and,

through you because in 2013 I had my chart read and it was like, it just didn't really do it for me. I think it, for whatever reason. And so I had like even more skepticism of like, Oh, like what's my very practical, not, not into the anything esoteric or out there boyfriend going to think. And like, I didn't know what I thought even. And like,

I think the part that you said right there, I had also written that down to read back to you of, is it useful and is it true?

And really, if something's useful, it doesn't, to me, doesn't really matter how it came to be or what the background is. I think that you go into that, you articulated that so, so beautifully. And I think for me, as someone who, it doesn't really matter for me, but if I want to use it and use it with other people, sometimes having a really grounded approach for people who

Yeah. Well, I think that like, I just have found human design to be so useful in my own life. You know, I think it's on so many levels. I think it's changed the way that I've interacted with my husband. I think it's changed the way that I parent my kids.

It's changed the way that I run a business. It's transformed the way I interact with my community. Like there are just so many gems in human design. And I think when it's communicated in a really esoteric way, or even in a way that's like, this is truth, it just will inevitably alienate people. And it's not to say that like,

those ways of communicating about it are wrong because they've got their audiences and those audiences love that way of communicating about it. But I guess I'm really, I just think there's something in human design that makes it accessible to a really broad audience. Like I feel like it can be useful to so many people. And so I really just want to find...

a way to keep sharing about it in a way that reaches those people that people are like, God, I like, cause I guess I've just sat enough with people at this point for people to be like, I've never been into systems like these. Like this is like really out of my comfort zone. And yet you just made me realize why dating is feeling so hard and how I could do things differently. Or you just helped me realize why I'm really struggling in my marriage. And I'm realizing it's not, you know, a fundamental disconnect. We just

you know, didn't understand how one another communicated. So I guess I've just seen enough applications where I'm like, God, if people just could understand their wiring and how they could support each other and how they could understand each other, like life just does get easier in some way because we know ourselves better. And so I just want to help that awareness reach more people. Completely. And I think having enough people with a shared language or some people with a shared language. And I, and I think, I

Honestly, you know, with any of this stuff, Myers-Briggs, astrology, Enneagrams, StrengthsFinders, like you always say, all of these, one thing is that it becomes a shared language for us to talk about ourselves because it really, to me, shows we all just want to be seen and understood. Yeah.

You know, that's huge for all of us. And like you said, I think this one is so useful, but it's also very broad and there are so many different pockets and there are so many different... I remember once we did an episode and I believe I titled it like high level human design and we went into...

stratospheres that, you know, I hadn't explored, even though I am someone who went, you know, fully down the rabbit hole projector style, if that means anything to people on the topic. Well,

ounce of what's possible in human design. And perhaps that's your next book or many, many books I hope that you write. But this one, I absolutely loved how simple and approachable and also really useful it was. Because I think I expected, even though you very specifically talked about authority and strategy in this book, and I want us to get into both of those and how they can be useful. I loved that you chose. You chose the two most important

I think in my opinion and limited expertise and I'm assuming to you. And I think they're the ones that people can start with. So it can like instantly become useful and then you can continue and go on and, um,

I'd love to talk about why you chose those two and what they are and how each of them have helped you. Yeah, I mean, it was so hard and there were honestly so many tears. I wrote 150 pages that were not included in this book. So I can't say that I even chose it at the beginning. There was a lot that I wrote that we didn't include. And I think at a certain point, I was talking to my publisher and it was just like, am I going to write a 300 page or like a 400 page book for my first book? That's just not...

just seeing a book of that size is a little bit scary if you're like new to the system. So I think that it was a real, it was a very hard decision for me to realize I had to choose, which is funny because the name of the book is how do you choose? And I think it's hard because I also know that there are people that like want me to cover everything. And I just had to realize that I, I, I couldn't do that well. I could choose some pieces to cover really, really well. And I really prioritize that. So yeah,

The book is called How Do You Choose? And it's really around how to make empowered decisions in your life, specifically around relationships and career using your design. The pieces of the chart that I use are your type, strategy, and authority. There are a lot of other pieces, if you know human design, that I was super tempted to include. And yet it felt like these pieces would be, these pieces were the building blocks that changed my life.

And I, and I know that just integrating those pieces could be so transformative for people. And there are other layers to layer on top of it, but not at the beginning. And so I included type because type is such a fundamental piece. You and I both being projectors around the fact that type is going to help you know how you can most effectively use your energy, how you can leverage your gifts, what challenges are and how you can overcome them, how you can use your type to articulate your needs and relationships and

I use a strategy because it really helps us know how we can find our way into the best opportunities for ourselves, whether it's dating, whether it's career, whether it's anything. So we can just find our ways to the places we're meant to be. And I chose authority because it helps us know how to tap into our inner knowing to make decisions that are correct for us.

And so like that combination of like, how do we use our energy most effectively? How do we then find the right opportunities for us? And how do we know whether they're right for us? It just feels like when we nail that, everything else becomes a little bit easier because we are so in tune with how we are, how we work best. We're using our energy in a way that it flows. We are in relationships and with people that feel right. We know how to kind of keep growing in that regard. And we also are really decisive and clear on what's right for us and what's not. And we're not kind of,

plagued by indecision or confusion. And so, yeah, again, it was a really hard decision. And yet I just know that those three pieces implemented can make the biggest difference in someone's life. And I also wanted to go deep. You know, I think that

I think there are a lot of amazing human design books that are out there, but every other human design book I've seen so far is a light textbook. It's like, okay, I'm going to walk you through each type, each authority, each profile, each whatever. And like, you kind of get a glance at each and it's really helpful. You're like, okay, cool. Understood it through this lens, really helpful. But what those books are missing and what I felt like was needed in the human design space was

Yeah.

Yeah. And it's funny. I read the introduction a couple of days ago. My gut reaction, other than what I just said in the part I read, was also like,

Because at the end of the introduction, as introductions typically do, you kind of set up the book of like, all right, it's formatted like this. I'm going to go through each type and I'm going to go through each strategy and each authority. And we're going to buckle up. I'm doing there's going to be celebrity examples. There's going to be stories of clients and there's going to be actionable ideas.

ways that you can use it in your life and things to watch out for in journal prompts. And I was like, oh, I'm so in. I was like, that is so...

so genius. And you were very kind and I only had a couple of days to read it before this. So you're like, just read the ones that are yours. And I disobeyed your, um, I was like cramming reading those ones right before this. Cause I was so riveted by the stories of the other ones and it's helpful for, you know, people, you know, and, and whatnot, but, but you're such a tremendous writer. And I, this is like becoming too much of an ad, like for the book, like I put it

It's like so genuine, but I feel like I need to like roll it back a little bit actually. Cause it's like, well, you know what I want to say? Like, well, okay. Well, I just want to say one quick thing. And then, I mean, I'm obviously loving hearing this, but like, I think what's so cool. And I received this feedback on a podcast I was on last week is like,

you know, the way that the book is structured, you could go in and be like, okay, I'm a projector. I have this strategy. I have this authority to make decisions like you can read those chapters. That's how it's structured. But like, honestly, what I really want is I want people to go in and I want them to read other chapters too, because you're going to have kids that have certain designs and colleagues and boyfriends and girlfriends and partners and parents and like,

I think so much of the magic of human design is not only in helping you understand how you work best, but in helping you better understand the people around you in a way that will improve your relationships in such a huge way. And this woman on the podcast last week was like, she's like, I read my things and I was like, okay, this is why these things aren't working in my life. I get it. I have all these strategies. And then she was like, but I do want to read every other chapter for the stories. And it just made me so happy hearing you say that too, because like, it was not really my intention, but I just love hearing that like the,

the thing that's going to get people to read all the other chapters is like wanting to actually read the stories. And I so get that because it's so interesting to be like, wait, how are these people different? What actually showed up in their life? And like, I've read my book obviously 1000 times at this point. And like, I still, at a certain point I was like, I like, I'm still enjoying it so much because of the stories. And,

And I like, and I just, I haven't seen that in a human design book yet, or honestly, even in an astrology book. And like, these systems are so amazing, but what's even more amazing is how people actually use it to transform their lives. And so like, I'm just really glad to hear the stories are resonating because they were so fun to write. They were so fun to choose. And they were so fun for me to read 1000 times because like people are so interesting. Yeah.

Yeah, completely. I mean, I think that's why you enjoy doing readings for so many years and connecting with people. And perhaps that's related to being a projector. But I think it's very, the story thing, you can speak more to this, but I think it's just very human. Like, that's how we learn. Like, if you go back to, you know, primitive times, that's how we connect. And telling stories is amazing.

how I, I'll speak for myself, how I learn, and I've never read a human design textbook. I've been very fortunate to have, you know, kind of fallen into getting to have incredible readings with the top of the top. And I have a blueprint made by you of my type. So I kind of, to be honest with you, went into this being like, I, and probably too, you know, many, many readers having worked with you one-on-one privately, having the privilege of speaking

speaking to you on my podcast and you were so kind to even do an event with me for something that I launched before I left New York. So like three recorded conversations after our session and being friends with you and obviously following your work, but I've never felt moved to read a text about human design. And this one is helpful in a way where I can

I did know a lot of the part because I have a robust knowledge. There were a lot of the parts about my type and authority and strategy that I knew, but I still need a tune up. You know, it's still nice for me to be like, and I can return to my blueprint, but it's sometimes it's just nice to hear that. And then I can envision myself kind of keeping this book like you would a,

Like I have this book that my friend wrote about herbalism. You keep on the top of the fridge and you're like, oh, wait, I just need to check that. Like what herb is good for that? And then I could do that with, you know, somebody I meet or I just want to reference. Like it's not – like there's nothing about generators in my blueprint from you because that's – Of course.

it's helpful to be able to look at that and then even to be like oh wow that's how life works for them like must be nice like I gotta talk it out or you know whatever it is it's it's it helps you to kind of see your type in context yes

Yes, totally. And like, it's so funny. I shared this on Instagram the other week where like, I was reading the book again for like a final edit before it goes to print. And I was reading the chapter on projectors and relationships. And I was like, Oh my God, like, this is why this friendship has been feeling so hard. Like,

And I was like, I wrote the freaking book. You think I would not need a tune-up and yet I need a tune-up. And I always think of human design as an awareness system. And I find every time we read it, something new pops out, regardless of how deep we've gone. Reading the chapters about my husband, I'm like, oh my God, I could have done this better about my daughter. So I so hear you. And I think it's interesting hearing like, oh, I wouldn't even be drawn to writing a

reading a book about it, but like it is kind of meant to be a resource manual in that way where you're like, oh, you know, I feel like a little bit stuck right now or like something feels like a little bit unclear. Let me just like return to this and see what it says.

Completely, completely. Yeah. I hope this for you as a projector, I hope that this makes you feel seen and recognized. It does make me feel seen and recognized. It really does. I am so grateful to you for sharing all that. Well, I want to kind of give people an experience of it and be the guinea pig with my type and my authority that we can speak to a little bit.

But what would be the first one to kind of talk about to just give people, especially if they're new to this, to kind of see how resonant this can be? Would it be to talk about type? Yeah, let's talk about type. You want to talk about your type? Our type, I guess, both of us. Our type. Okay, great. So let me do what would you rather talk about projectors in the context of relationships or career? Oh, maybe career. Yeah.

Okay, cool. So for those that are new to human design, you can look your design up at humandesignblueprint.com. There's going to be lots of different names and things associated with your chart, but the piece we're talking about right now is the type. And so type is the first piece to look at. There are five different types in human design. And like I shared before, they speak to how we best use our energy, how we can most effectively articulate our needs, what our gifts are and things like that.

And the way the book is structured is really looking at the application of each of these pieces of our chart to career and relationships, because those are often the conversations that a lot of my sessions circle. And so we'll talk about, we'll start with kind of projectors and career just to give you a taste.

And one thing I'll say for you, I know, you know, human design, but as always, you know, if anything I share today doesn't feel useful, supportive, resonant, let it go. That applies to all the listeners as well. I really firmly believe human design is meant to be an empowering tool, not a disempowering one. So, you know, so much of being a projector at work is knowing that you are somebody who's a very natural leader, guide, advisor, teacher, coach, podcast host.

You know, these people are so wise about other people. I do feel like so many podcast hosts I sit with are projectors and projectors, as you probably read, are so good at asking questions, which makes them kind of well suited for this role. But I think one of the biggest lessons for projectors in their careers is that, you know, while they are natural leaders, they can often kind of get caught in positions where they feel like they have to be like constant executors and like doing all the doing and they can really kind of burn out in the process.

And so, so much of being a projector is knowing that your gift is not in how much you can do and how hard you work, but it's really in your perspective and how you see. You have a bird's eye perspective. You're sensitive to things others aren't, and you often can offer a perspective that can be pretty transformative. I think on a more practical level as a projector, and I'm curious how you...

have navigated this in your own life. But you're not really meant to kind of have these days where everything is booked back to back and you're working long hours. Like in an ideal world, you have space and rest and breaks built into your days. And often those are the things that really allow you to kind of tap into your gifts and really be at your best. Curious how and if any of that resonates so far.

It resonates so much. It's comical. And I often talk about human design where it's like, I feel exposed. Like it's a little too much. Like I'm like, you just explained how I am with everything. And I think, you know, similarly, my life right now is in a, and I know better because I, but my life is set up where I, a couple of those things need tweaks. So it was really good to have the tune up. And one thing I'm wondering if you could talk about, like related to career, maybe you're about to get to this is,

And I think the thing that really unlocked something for me this time was, you kind of talked about it already, I guess, the executing thing. You know, I had the opportunity and, you know, it was laughable how the strategy being, you

waiting for the invitation, but it just kind of came to me and I was giving the ideas and someone else was executing and that was really useful for me. And as someone who doesn't have a co-host and it's just me, I find that often sometimes I've been most successful when I've had help and I'm in a season of not really having that. And it's been challenging. Yeah.

Totally. And that is a big piece as a projector is like, and you know, this is not always possible off the bat, but it's really letting ourselves be supported. You know, I think that in an ideal world, projectors are amazing people to kind of build businesses and projects around because it's really kind of honing in on where you offer the most value. And like what I would guess for you is around like your vision for the podcast, your ability to interview people like your presence. And it's, it's like eventually bringing in support for the rest.

And I think there's such a susceptibility to kind of overdoing as a projector where it's like, oh, I've got to like do all the things. I've got to manage this and this and this. And it just burns us out so quickly as projectors. So I think kind of allowing and support, delegating where we can, can really help us in all the ways. And like, I don't know if you've experienced this, but I think one of my big lessons as a projector is that

I'm very tempted to like overdo all the time. But when I'm kind of in that mode of like overzealous and overdoing, overzealous and overdoing, it's just like really hard to connect to my gifts. I don't feel like I'm as wise or as insightful or as articulate. And like, I just find like the more rested I am, the more relaxed I am, the more effective I am.

And so there is just kind of this real lesson for projectors of like, okay, how can you see rest not as a thing that is like, you know, unproductive, but as a thing that really makes you better in all the ways and it's always worth taking. But yes, when it comes to work, I think having support as a projector is so ideal and like something to build towards if you're not able to bring it in just yet. Yeah. And I mean, I guess I can speak to having had it and then in a season of not and like

being able to have the contrast that tracks. Totally. You know, and again, like it's, it's just useful to I think be aware of these moments, not because you can always do it, but even just being like, okay, like what are the things I could delegate if I, if I could. And I think for me, when I first started the human design business, I was like, okay, like I'm starting a business. I've got to be really good at all these things. And I think what I pretty quickly discovered is that like, I was really good at talking about human design and I love sharing human design and like

it was so natural for me, but there were a lot of other elements of business that like I wasn't good at and like I could become good at for sure, but like it just wasn't, I just like didn't really have a knack for it. You know, I wasn't like great at strategy or operations. And so like from a very early age,

stage with this business, I've always been kind of in partnership working with other people, like never doing it alone. And I think being a projector was so helpful for me and understanding like, it's okay to not try to do this all by yourself. And it's okay to not be good at all these things because so often where projectors thrive are like in any roles that kind of involve people, you know, and so kind of really being able to focus your energy in those places.

Completely. And I think I was in a season where I had more resources before. And funnily enough, you know, recently I have had to be more scrappy and meaning do more myself and all of that. And it doesn't get me as far. And I also have ended up needing to get the resources anyway. Like here's an example just from today. I mentioned this to Aaron, right? I took

the dog that I'm babysitting on a walk right before this. And she got skunked and I had this interview and whatever. And my friend told me like, okay, you get baking soda and you get dish soap and do this and this and this and the oil and whatever. She smelled so bad. I live in a studio apartment. I didn't want to get everywhere and like a bigger problem. So I was just like, yeah, it might cost more money to take her to the groomer, but that is the path of least resistance. You know, I'm sure I could learn how to do it and do it.

But I probably would do that and then end up having to take her to the groomer in the end. And which, you know, maybe is just like an overarching thing for everyone in some ways. But I feel like it definitely applies in my whenever I've tried to kind of force and do it all. If I can just it's worth it for me to to get help in those instances, even when it's a stretch. It is, you know.

Yeah, it's just really useful to give yourself that permission. I think that I, it took me so long to give myself that permission. And it's also like useful to be like, you know, you might see other people and I don't know if this is your experience, like doing all this stuff and creating all this stuff and being like, we're all very different. Like the fact that you can like interview people in the way that you can. And there's just, everybody has such a specific gift. And I think it's so important for projectors to recognize what is your unique gift and like to trust that that is so enough. And it's great to kind of bring in support around that, but it's not around like how many things you can create.

Yeah. Yeah. What are some careers that you have found that,

particularly useful for projectors. I know in the book you say recruiter, but you know, I'm in this point right now where I agree. Like the only thing that I've sometimes I joke, and this was also in the book, but I joke, like the only thing I do really well is friend. Like if I could just be paid to be a friend, because sometimes I feel like all I'm doing is yeah. Yeah. But that's, yeah, we make friends quite easily and anything that has to do with people comes quite naturally to me. But the other things are,

are, are tricky. And yeah. So I, what are some other instances of that? Yeah. So I think, so roles that would be good for projectors. I think that like, I think that definitely like, I see a lot of projectors and roles that just focus around guiding other people. Like think about, you know, see like manager, CEO, more even manager, like therapist, guidance counselor. Like they're so good at just like guiding others by asking the right questions. I think that

you know, often they have a very particular unique gift that can maybe manifest as like being an artist. They are really good at spotting people's potential and recognizing it. Like, I think you are even the way that you are like offering me so many sweet words of affirmation around the book. And like, you know, those like people can be really good, like book agents or, you know, even, you know,

agents for athletes or things like that, where they're just like their gift is kind of spotting potential, but it is kind of, I mean, and I think what I always have to remind people of with human design is that human design is not meant to limit what we can do. It just lets us know how we can do that thing best. So like you might be a product manager and you're like, Aaron didn't say product manager. And it's like, Oh, projectors can absolutely be that. But like, you know, it's about doing it in a way where you feel recognized and you feel like it aligns with your natural gifts and you feel like you can honor the ebbs and flows of your energy. But you know, it is really around, um,

it's funny, like I can try to do all kinds of things, but I just know for me, I'm always just in a role that's front facing with people. That's just like where I do my best, you know? And so like, I think it's, it's helpful to just like recognize that. And I'm so not surprised that you feel like a professional friend because like your design is so much around recognizing people and seeing potential and like this warmth and it's like community. And like that, those are all like gifts. Those are things you can build a career around. Like I think stories I tell in the book are around the fact that I just didn't believe for a long time as a projector that like

my ability to like see people and ask the right questions was like enough to build a career around, you know? And so I think that can be, and that's not always going to be the gift of projectors. You could have so many different gifts, but like in an ideal world, you're kind of building a career around those gifts. Yeah. That, that very much tracks. Can we talk about strategy and authority at least a little bit? I think I keep confusing those, so maybe set them up a bit.

I'll set them up. So strategy is going to be the next part of the book and it's around how you create and find the best opportunities, whether it's a job, whether it's around dating relationships, all the things, the strategy comes from your type. And so every type will share the same strategy. So, you know, we are both projectors and we share a strategy, which is waiting to be recognized and invited or waiting to be invited. And basically what that means, let's think about it in the context of work.

is that you are somebody who does your best when somebody like really recognizes your unique value and really invites you to share it. And it's kind of goes to your example earlier where it's like somebody, you might be really good at strategy, but like, I'm not going to require you to execute all the things, you know, or you'd be really good. I want to platform you in this way. So, so much of how opportunities arise for us as projectors is people like seeing our value and really inviting us to share it.

And, you know, I think when I first learned this was my strategy and I share this in the book, it felt a little bit disempowering because I felt really confused how I could build a business waiting for an invitation. And I learned that so much of my job was really around just kind of making myself visible and sharing myself authentically and trusting that the right invitations would arise out of that.

you know, and, and always finding ways to experiment with it. But I, when I look back at, I don't know what your career is, but like, but the last time I had a resume and used it was when I applied for my first job out of college.

Yeah, I've never... It's all been from friends. Which is just like, it's just so funny where it's just been like this one moment after another of somebody being like, I see you. I want to create this opportunity for you. And like, even when it came down to like selling the book, it was like, I had like this agent that I wanted to work with and all this stuff. And it was just like, but then there was somebody who like reached out and invited me in and like saw what I wanted to do so clearly that I was like, why would I resist that? You know? So like, it just...

so much of how things arise from us for us are from these really authentic invitations where somebody sees us really clearly. And it's true of every part of our lives. And I think that I continue to resist it. And I continue to be reminded over and over again that everything is better when I just trust that. That one is so, I feel like that one I finally have integrated over the years. It just, it feels so real.

clear to me based on exactly like you said, I have all of these 1 million jobs and times I've consulted in freelance projects and not one of them did I ask for. And even within doing the podcast, it's 12 years of doing this show and I was sitting here right now, you know, I waited for the invitation, so to speak, but I guess I made myself available for

To you, because we have a relationship that we built over years. And so often, you know, I do reach out to I used to reach out to people. But honestly, it's really rare that I've reached out to someone even to come on the show. It's I have a lot of publicists and people coming back to me. But it's often just like recently, it's been more like.

You know, I was just at a friend's art studio yesterday. I was like, hey, you want to do the podcast? And it was more like felt like it was the invitation was right there because, you know, he said something about that. Like, so, yeah, it's been a shift, you know, from the beginning. Of course, I like you said, sometimes you have to work up to it. But my entire life has been kind of oriented around an invitation where I'm kind of swinging at the balls coming at me.

Yeah. It's so funny how it, like, it feels like it could be a little bit crazy to be like, how as a podcast host, are you still like being invited? But like, it just is so fun to hear that, like, it can happen in all the ways.

you know, and like in ways that we don't even expect. And one thing I talk about in the book is that there are formal invitations and energetic invitations. And so like, you know, I think for like invitations are really needed at the start of an opportunity, you know, but if you feel really seen, then you could lean into that. And even in our connection, I don't know if you know that I was writing a book or knew that I was writing a book and it was like, you've always made me feel so seen. So like I had to let you know, I was like, oh my God, I would love to share a copy with you if you're open. But it was like also because the opening was so clearly there.

And so it is also kind of an adventure for you as a projector to be like, you know, when is the opening there? And I, and I share a story. I think the one that you're referencing of me and my husband, is that the one where the invitation? Yes, my favorite, my favorite. You got it. You got to give a little bit of that one. Well, I just loved it. Oh, it makes me so happy. I think that like, it's so funny, including personal stories like that. I'm like, oh my God. But I do think that, you know, my husband, um,

was my best friend for four years before we started dating. And he witnessed me through a lot of romantic relationships and a lot of my life. And honestly, we were always like, we could never be together. We're just best friends. And, but there kind of reached a point where like everybody around us was like, you guys are so in love with each other. And we're like, no, we're not. We are best friends. And like, and, and I knew that I was a projector and I was like, I just like, there's nobody in this world that's made me feel more seen and special than he does. And

And then he has. And I was kind of just like, I felt so invited in by him in all the ways, but like we just hadn't entered their realm of romance. And, you know, I could feel that he was scared for good reason because we were like best friends, but, you know, I ended up having a conversation with him.

where I just kind of like put myself out there. And for me, what made that feel okay was like, I felt so seen by him. And I was just like, I wasn't pushing anything on him. I was just like, this is where I'm at. Like, I think that you're scared. And I was like, and if you are, that's fine. But like, I, I just like, can't choose to be around that right now. I was like, if you don't want to be in this relationship because you don't want to be in it, like that's makes a lot of sense. But like, if it's only out of fear, like,

I just like needed a little space. And like, it was such a funny moment. Cause that felt really scary and kind of out of character as a projector, but it was like, it felt like I had to do it, you know? And like, and then our relationship begun and that was seven years ago. And like, but it was so, it was such a moment for me to be like, I actually feel the most invited in that I've ever felt in any context by any person in this world. And we're just too scared to make this thing real. And so like, if he's not going to do it, I've got to at least give it a shot.

Yeah, that part was really resonant of like, it's the importance of projectors to shoot their shot. And I think that I've been having a conversation related to vulnerability and dating recently. And a friend and I were talking about like, we read something, this article that came out a

AI and dating and the internet. And one of the things that it sort of had this theme of vulnerability, people not wanting to be vulnerable. And we were pushing back on that. I'm like, okay, well, how are you defining vulnerability? Like we're kind of getting into the intricacies of this. And where we landed was that

it's about resilience. Really the reason that people, I am thinking that people aren't vulnerable because they're, it's not a vulnerability problem. It's a, it's a resilience problem because it takes a level of resilience and potentially disturbing your own peace to shoot your shot and potentially be rejected or, or,

confirmed and the scariness of, of trying, you know, but I think a lot of people are playing it safe or, or, or getting stuck in the status quo or stuck at buffering and in between. And I think knowing a lot of these tools in here can kind of help you build some resilience so you can be vulnerable like you were in that moment. Yeah, totally. Yeah.

Right. And I think that I, and I think it is resilience because so much of vulnerability is like putting ourselves out there and we might be rejected, you know, like somebody might not receive it, but I, but I think what my human design taught me in that moment, and I hope what this book will do for people is like, it also will get you really clear. I'm like, when a thing is just really right for you, like in that moment, I was just like, I'm like kidding myself. I, if I say I like, I'm not interested in him. And it was just like, so clear to me that it was like the right direction. Yeah.

you know, he could have been like, it's not the right direction for me, you know? And I was prepared for that, but I, I didn't feel like that was the case. So it does feel like there's something around. It's not about what we're choosing what's best or whatever. It's not about eliminating rejection. It's about just like knowing ourselves well enough to be like, I've got to do this and then we'll see where it takes us. Yeah. Yeah. And I have, I have millions of examples of, of that working very well for me. And I, I guess I can be a, a bit of a success story in this, this,

And honestly, the next one that I hope we have a little bit of time to touch on too, but I have really integrated these two in my life in a way that I know I can go even deeper. And like I said, I felt like I got to tune up in a lot of these, but I'm very confident in their...

in my own life based on I've oriented, like I said, even with the podcast, so much of how I make decisions and so much of how I move through. And I think also, too, you know, you even pointed out, well, I think we're about to get to it with this next one, the strategy and the one that I am in particular. There's kind of a coincidence that I was trying

doing my authority before I even knew what an authority was. And you helped me to double down on that and see that. So yeah. Can you define authority? Of course.

Yeah. So authority is really around once that opportunity is there, how do we know it's right for us? How can we actually assess which jobs to take and which relationships to enter and do and how to make decisions inside of relationships? And I just find it so useful, especially if you're in a partnership, I would definitely recommend reading the chapters if you have the book or if you get the book of your partners too, because it's,

It's just so useful to understand how different people are and how they make decisions. So, you know, you know that I love using you as an example of your authority because you feel like, yeah, you always do it so well. And like your authority is self projected in the human design speak.

And it basically means that you find clarity by talking things out, not because you're looking for advice or guidance from other people, but just the process of actually speaking things out and saying them out loud makes things make sense. You know, you might find your voice becoming more animated, talking about certain things or your enthusiasm might dwindle, but like it is a process of saying things out loud that brings you the truth and clarity you're looking for. And that even can come through journaling, as I know, you know, or voice recording or things like that, but it's all about using your voice.

And so, you know, I have lots of stories around it in the book, but it is so useful for the people around you to know this so that people in your life can serve as sounding boards, helpful sounding boards, not ones that are imposing their opinion on you or trying to steer you in a certain direction, but know that you're somebody who finds your truth by speaking things out. So like their job is to ask good questions and give you space to just find your truth and discover it on your own.

How did it feel? I mean, it's, it's like comical, like the, this one, especially, I mean, the, the waiting for the invitation too. I mean, I can, I can give a lot of examples on times that I didn't wait for the invitation and it either just being more tumultuous or less efficient. And times when I did it being more smooth and, and same with this, like I, I,

And this one, and maybe you can talk a little bit about the other ones, or I feel like people know more about the other ones. Like some people can need a certain amount of time to make a decision. Some people can make a decision right away. And that's...

To me, and perhaps this is biased so you can tell me, but this – and you're not. We don't share this one so you can speak from your own experience to a different one. But this one, kind of like you said with the –

wait for the invitation kind of feeling disempowering to you. I think for a minute, this one, I don't know if you remember, but I remember being where we were sitting on the floor. You were wearing all white, us being... You had a really cool short haircut at the time. And I remember you explaining this one to me. And I think I made you like re-explain it like 17 times because I was like...

but what do you mean? So I don't need their, I don't need their opinion, but I need to talk it out. And you're like, yeah. And it was if you were speaking a different language. And then I remember leaving there and being like, that's exactly what I do. And that's what I need. I just had never, you articulated something to myself that I'd never articulated to myself. And, you know, the gag of all for people who, you know, maybe don't know this, but I, I wrote a book about journaling that came out in 2016. And I,

And I often say, and I think that's a Didion quote, but I think she says, I don't know what I'm feeling unless I'm writing. And I feel that way too. But for me, it's I don't know what I'm feeling unless I'm talking it out incessantly with people preferably. And a really great resource for that. And I haven't told you this because this is a new thing in the last...

few, since I'm, since I moved and it actually started when, and, and I think you, you might remember this too. I left New York and I went on this, I called it like my eat, pray, love after a breakup, but essentially I went traveling for a long time and ended up in LA and just moved here. And when I was on the other side of the world, and I know we both share spending some time in Bali, but for instance, being in Indonesia or Australia, I

Everyone I knew was asleep during the times that I was awake for the entire day. And so to communicate, I would send voice notes because I couldn't really call people and I

It was like audio journaling and I would walk around and walk around and send these voice notes and I was able to process and think about what I was feeling without getting – it was like the best of both worlds because I was getting – someone else was going to hear it. I had someone to talk to just like writing a letter and the journaling prompts that I give is often like having someone in mind is helpful or having a question or a prompt. And so I had that. I knew someone was going to listen.

And I knew that they weren't going to give me feedback, at least right there. Like I was able to get it all out and, and this and this and this, you know, and, and continue. And even, you know, with it being a voice note and sending it off, I also at that time had the luxury of like, they're not even awake. So there's no way we're going to get into like an immediate AIM style, like banter right now, because I'm just firing them off.

And I've continued that where like I have some some friends that I and I know that I'm the other key thing that's that's helped me in particular with utilizing this part of my authority is my.

especially in making decisions. And I also am going to lump in like knowing how I feel about what happened with something. So I guess we could call it deciding how I feel about someone that, or, or how I feel about an interaction or something. I have found that I'm the most reliable narrator, like right after,

So a very kind friend of mine helped me to know, like after I go on a date, she's like, just jump in here. Like we have a signal chat and she's like, just talk it out right here, right away. Because a few days pass and I'll be, I'll start to, you know, other factors will come in or I've told other people or I start to get feedback. And so my intuition gets a bit clouded by like something. And sometimes obviously like feedback is helpful, but usually I know. And usually I'm right. I just have to like,

move through the gunk on top to get to the clear water underneath. And I do that by talking it out. But like I was, I never landed the plane about what I was saying about how you felt like the invitation was kind of disempowering. Like at first, once I finally understood it, I was worried that this

I, yeah, I felt a little bit disempowered by this one at first too, because, and I, I often sometimes joke to my friends who like do know human design. I'm like, Oh my God, I'm the worst one. Like I'm the one that like, because of two other, unless you tell it to other people, like it's, it's annoying unless you can like kind of articulate, unless you really need to talk about with the right people, because people will be like, you already said that. What do you mean? You know, you already said that we were talking in circles or here's what you should do. Or like someone being solution oriented and like,

I have had to really like learn. This one is one that I really had to learn to navigate. And it's, it's tricky. It's really tricky because sometimes I want to do it right away and I can't, or I don't want to be too much for people or I need to kind of navigate it and journaling helps for sure. But it is better if I can ideally talk it out with a person, but it's just one of those human design things that because it's like uncanny.

Oh my God. I just think you're such a perfect example. And like, I do hear that one from, I hear from self-projected projectors so often, they're like the power of voice notes, like, and I include it in the book of like people like leaving a voice note for a friend and then be like, oh, like you don't even need to listen to it. Like, I just like, I talk my way to clarity, like I'm good. And so like, I think that, you know, and I was just on a call before this with some of my students and somebody said a similar thing. So I just love that you integrated that practice more and like,

and I think I also want to just kind of pull back for a moment to say that like the magic of human design is often not telling us anything new. It just kind of reminds us of who we are and how we can step into it more. So it's like, you know, you heard that and it was like, you maybe were like, oh, I don't want to be that. Or that feels like a little bit weird. And then you're like, oh, but that is already how I do things. And this is just kind of validation that like, that's a really great way to process for me with the right people, you know, obviously not with people that don't understand it, but

I think that's kind of why we need to be reminded of these things over and over again, because we forget, you know, we, we, we forget that like, we need that recognition, that invitation or that we don't have all the energy in the world or whatever it is. So I think it just hopefully over time continues to kind of bring people closer and closer to themselves. Yeah, completely. Can you just say what your, what your authority is and just so there's a contrast. Yeah.

So my authority is called emotional authority in human design. So it basically means that I'm somebody who's not meant to make decisions in a rash way. I meant to sleep on things and feel into things and give myself like a day, two or three before I say yes.

I also feel like this is annoying. You know what I mean? Because I'm just like, oh my God, I just want to like say yes once the opportunity comes. But I've had enough experiences in my life to feel like an opportunity comes. I'm super psyched. I say yes in the moment and then I wake up the next day and I regret committing to it. And so like as annoying as it can feel to wait, I found it's always worth it. It brings me a calm clarity I couldn't have found otherwise. And so, you know, my husband is a very fast person.

My youngest, youngest daughter is like also super fast. And so it'll be interesting to kind of see how that manifests growing up as she grows up. But like, I feel like I've learned to appreciate that, like as annoying as it can feel at the outset, it's always worth taking the time because if I say yes and don't really mean it, I'll have to like back out later or I can't really, don't really have the energy for that commitment. And so just like giving myself a couple of days to confirm that my yes is coming from a really genuine place within me has really made a big difference in my life.

I mean, I think, I guess to me, those two seem similar in the sense of we both need time and we know it's better when we take

take the time. Yours is just, you'll get the intuition emotionally and I'll need to talk it out to get the, the intuition, but it kind of gets to the same spot and can be frustrating, especially like when you have a time sensitive decision to have to sometimes say for both of us, like I need to get back to you is like the biggest thing to just know.

Totally. Totally. And I used to really fear that of like, oh my God, asking for more time when the opportunity disappear or whatever. And I've just learned that it often only gets better. I feel like when I respect my process, others respect it too. And for me, when I've asked for time, opportunities tend to only get better and more attractive. And so I think that I...

have learned to articulate that. And one thing for people to know is that the authority that I have, the emotional authority, 50% of the world has this authority. And so, so many of us are walking around being like, oh, we've got to be so fast. We've got to be so spontaneous. And yet like we really benefit when we give ourselves a little bit of time. Yours is really rare, you know? So

I think it's useful for me to remind myself of that and the moments where I feel guilty for taking my time. But, you know, then people are on the other side. There are lots of people that are meant to be super spontaneous and fast and they'll feel like, you know, people will make them wrong for that because they haven't like thought enough about it or like,

you know, when like they already know there's no need to wait. And so it's just really useful to be like, how, what is the way that we can tap into our inner knowing? And also what are the ways in which we can support others and really connecting to their inner knowing? Like, it'd be so fun for, you know, people in your life to read the chapter and self-protected authorities and be like, Oh, this is how I can support her. Yeah. Oh yeah. It's, it's so true. I think for the, the other sort of difference between yours and, and mine in this respect is that,

And the reason why I was like, oh, it's the worst one. It's annoying because and why I envy the other ones a little bit are like, yes, I can do it on my own. And journaling helps and the voice note helps. But I will say that with talking it out with another person is ideal. If there's a really important choice like that, that really is the ideal one. And without the language of human design to kind of be like,

To set it up or even, you know, I don't even have to like necessarily like bring human design into it. It would be ideal to be like, hey, just read this chapter, you know? Yeah. I don't even have to use the word human design using the tools from your book or like the articulation from your book. Like before I met you.

I didn't know that. And so I would just do it and didn't know, do it with some people do it with other, but now I don't even have to like say authority. I don't even have to say human design. I can just use the other words in that chapter of like, Hey, it really helps me to talk things out. I know, you know, I don't even need feedback, like just using the like content to say to someone, cause it's the one that like you do sort of, you have to set up to another person if you're going to go that route. And yeah,

And that, yeah, I think that that's really useful about it. Yeah. And I think you're right that it doesn't have to be couched or it doesn't have to have the language of like, I'm a projector. It's just like, oh, like I'm somebody who really likes words of affirmation, you know, that really is helpful in my connection or like, yeah, I'm somebody who needs to talk about my decisions and it's really useful when you don't give me your opinion right away, but let me talk it out and just ask good questions. So it is true that like, whether or not the people in our lives are into human design and

it gives us a language and a framework to articulate what we need in a way that sets us all up for success. Completely. And then, you know, maybe you get to the point of like, yeah, I actually learned this because of this and it can be helpful to them. But I think you can work up to that. I don't think you have to like run into, to,

As someone who's done that before with people who are a bit more skeptical of like, you know, it can be daunting. And so I think you can just go with it, go into it kind of from the from the end, working back to the beginning. And I think that can be just as if more more so to some people. Yeah.

Totally. Gosh, this is incredible. I wish that we could, I know I've kept you way, way longer, but I feel like I could keep talking about all of this stuff for ages. But is there anything else that you want to share about anything, human design or anything at all?

I know I'm just really so happy to be back with you. You know, I think that it's so nice to be here and talk to you and hear how it's all unfolded. And I'm just so honored that you read the book and said yes. And it's, you know, it's all exciting. I feel so happy to have talked to you. Well, thank you. And yeah, I feel so...

so grateful as well. And yeah, it was such an honor to get to read an early copy and I hope everyone goes and gets themselves a hard copy, pre-orders, orders. And I can't, can't wait to be able to hold one and, and get to reference it and, and tell everybody about it too. And I'm,

I'm so happy to have connected with you and congrats and so grateful to have, how did you say before? Like the open, we have a, we have an open relationship. So like now, or that's maybe not the way you said it. Open invitation. Totally. Totally. Yeah, exactly. Open invitation. Amazing. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you.

Okay, that was my episode with Erin. Get yourself a hard copy of How Do You Choose and follow her everywhere. She's great. Isn't she soothing to listen to? I've just always really liked her. I really have. The second I met her, I just thought she was so cool. I loved being around her. She just is so magnetic and...

inspiring to me and I'm so happy that we have an open invitation. Yeah, let me know if you have any questions about human design. I'll link our other two live episodes here and I also have done an episode with Jenna Zoe who also does human design and we talk about more human design related things also from several years ago but I'll link that as well and

I'll be back soon with a new episode. If you need anything from me, if you want to hear from me sooner than later, you know, Instagram my name at katydalebout or at letitout with three Ts. Also follow Erin while you're there. And my sub stack, letitoutlist, I'll link here. But I...

have been more consistent on there and I hope to be back more consistently with episodes too so let me know what you want to hear and if you're listening just reach out let me know let me know that you're here sometimes I feel like I'm speaking into the void especially these last couple years when it's been a bit more sporadic so I'd love to hear from you thank you again so much and thank you to Erin and I'll talk to you really soon I think I forgot to do the deep breath with her so I'll do it with you now inhale let it out

Thank you so much for listening. All right. Bye.