How to Make a Space Feel Like You - with Cooper Osinski
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I mean, the first thing is going to have to be find something that you love to do. Because anything that you don't love to do is going to come up inauthentically and there will be a disconnect between you and either the people in your office or the audience watching you. Okay, hi, welcome back. It's a new episode. I hope this is a nice break from...

the news or the heat or the heaviness around you. I hope this lets you

Just eavesdrop on two people who've never met before having a conversation. This is my podcast. My name is Katie Dalebow. The show is called Let It Out. I've been doing it for a long time. If you're new, thank you for being here. This week I speak to interior designer and really such an impressive, smart, warm, fun person to talk to, Cooper Ozenski.

who I met, you know, I joke at the end of this, brought to you by the algorithm. One of his videos on YouTube about interiors and spaces popped up into my algorithm. I watched it and then I watched a bunch more and then here we are talking on the podcast and I'm so happy that we did and that you get to hear it. He gives so much great advice

advice in this and his philosophy about design I really agree with and I love how he talks about ideas and how he has developed his taste and style and a visual language over time and we get into tons of advice on how to create spaces that reflect

your identity and are functional and aren't just aesthetics and and we talked about what it's like to be an interior design creator on the internet and making his personal approach to design clear and not just you know adding to what's already out there and he honestly gives the smartest interior design advice that you'll ever hear and

I just really loved speaking to him. I'm so impressed by all he's done. In awe, yeah, I just really loved getting to speak to him. We cover how he makes his videos, how he got into this, and he doesn't really talk about himself that much in his YouTube videos. He's mostly speaking very clearly about aspects of design that could be helpful to people and that are very applicable, but in this I get a little bit into who he is and...

I can't wait for you to hear it. So here is my conversation with Cooper. Thank you so much for being here and I'll talk to you at the end. Okay, action. We're going. We're rolling. Cooper, thank you so much for hanging out with me. I'm just, I'm a big fan and I emailed you right away and I'm stoked that

I get to talk to you more and hear more about you, which you don't really, you help people so much with interiors on your YouTube, but I want to know more about you as a person and hang out with you. Well, thank you so much for inviting me on. This is really the first thing, like I said, we had chatted a little bit before, but this is really the first thing I've ever done outside of my normal content stuff. So I don't usually talk about myself a lot,

it comes to that I mostly try and give my advice so I think it'll be fun at least for the people that watch me to maybe understand you know the background of everything a little bit better. Yeah yeah completely exclusive that's what I said when you told me that I was like I'm honored it's an honor so okay so you're in Portland right? Yes I'm in Portland Oregon. In

Is that where you're originally from? No, I'm actually from the other side of the country, almost the exact opposite. I'm from a small town in Connecticut called Fairfield. Oh, cool. Yeah.

I've been actually. Oh, no way. That's not super... I don't hear that quite a lot. But yeah, I moved out here for college. I'm actually still in college out here. And I'm not somebody who's super academic. I don't love school. And so I try my best at that. But I also...

I'm grateful for the fact that I am in school because it pushes me more towards the things that I really do love and has pushed me towards interior design and gaining experience in that at a young age. So, you know, that's been been

been really great. So what brought you to Portland was school? Yes. Yes. College. Yeah. Are you studying interiors in school right now? Is that how you got into it? Were you always into them as a kid? Yeah. So basically when I was a kid, I was always obsessed with interior design and houses. Like that was my favorite thing. I couldn't talk about it for days and I still can to now. But I, I

Would sit in my room and just, like, draw. This is such a weird thing for a child to do. But I would draw, like, exterior, like, frames of, you know, how, like, architectural prints will have, like, a frame of, like, a certain angle of a house. And I would draw my own houses in my, like, little sketchbook. And then I would draw floor plans for all of the houses in my thing. And then I would draw, like, where the furniture would all go in my

in the rooms inside the houses and that's that's pretty much all i did i think i'm one of the last people

In the last generation who still had a childhood without technology, like I wasn't really allowed to have a phone or watch TV or anything like that. So that's what I did with my spare time. Oh, wow. So are your parents into interiors? What were your houses or homes that you places you lived when you grew up? Like, does that style change?

inspire you now? I know you're very mid-century focused. Yes, I'm very mid-century focused. My parents are actually not into interior design at all. I come from divorced parents. They divorced when I was about two years old. So I would go back and forth from two different houses. And my mom, she always lived in very modest places until she remarried. So we were in apartments and stuff. She always made it really cute. Not anything I would

Sorry, Mom, but not anything I would say is exceptionally...

in my eyes now, but, you know, bless her heart. And then my dad, he's like a divorced, he was a divorced dad. So like, no. I feel like I have a vision with my own divorced dad. Yeah, it's not, it wasn't exactly, it was a little bleak, but, you know, I made my room. Did he have a George Foreman grill? Yes. Really? Yeah.

That's my first question to every, and I thought that would be a stretch because I'm like significantly older than you, but glad to see that that stood the test of time. Absolutely. So their style wasn't super formative for you. If anything, it kind of inspired you to find your own. No, I mean, I did not grow up like my parents were like middle class, lower middle class. They didn't have

money and as everybody knows interior design and nice furniture is very expensive and so you know we didn't have a ton of access to that so you kind of just had to do with what you had and do like the little touches that can really make a big difference which I still take to

know this day because i don't believe that everybody needs to have a three thousand dollar couch to have a nice place like it just doesn't need to happen but something i would do when i was a kid is you know given that i had two separate rooms i would you know just move the furniture around constantly and you know draw it out in my like book or whatever

What was your style like back then? Because I relate in a way, like I've always been into decorating, like whether any space that I had, like my room when I was growing up, but I had slightly less autonomy of my, you know, where I lived when I was a kid because I

you know, I lived with either, either parent, but my locker, for instance, like I had complete control of, you know, or my college dorm or my, my college house, which I always shared with roommates, but had, you know, more autonomy and spaces as I got older, but I had terrible taste or what I would consider terrible taste now. Like there's a phobia,

that went sort of viral of my room and viral for like a long time ago, but on Tumblr of my room in college. We weren't, our landlord, they didn't want anyone to live up there, but we wanted the rent to be cheaper. So we had, you know, more roommates than was allowed. And it was an attic. It was fully like, it was an attic, crawl space, if you will. But I made like a canopy bed and I had stuff all over the walls and I,

It's like a photo of me sitting on the bed and it popped up the other day, like on Pinterest, like somebody sent it to me. And I was like, wow, this is such a giant contrast to my very minimal space I live in now. So did you go through any similar phases where you'll look back on, you know, things you did when you were a kid? How did you develop that?

the taste and direction that you have now. Yeah, I mean, that's really, really funny because I've had such similar experiences, obviously not with a viral moment, but my grandfather, so he was like super into like going to estate sales and like

antique stores and stuff. And so his basement was pretty much a giant thrift store. It was pretty cool. He lived in this tiny house, but then his basement was like super organized and he had, I think he was like a very organized order and he had a ton of different things like all over the place. And he would be, me and my sister would go and,

He would be like, you guys can take whatever you want, you know, anytime. And so I always had access to this mini thrift store when I was a kid. So I look back at photos of my childhood rooms and stuff like that. And I'm like, I'm gentle with myself because you need to think about the context for you and the time that it's at. Like for instance, now I'm a college student. So I'm in college. All my friends are in college too. And so when I visit their places or their dorms and stuff like that,

Does it look like a professionally designed space? Absolutely not. But you also need to understand these are college students that are living on their own for the first time that don't have an interest in that kind of thing. So I think, you know, it's important to take into the external factors when considering that stuff. Yeah, yeah. I mean, to me, you're...

This space is just so wonderful. You know what I mean? And I think it's so timeless. And that's something that you talk about a lot. One of my favorite videos, I think of yours, I don't remember the title, but it's something like...

something about trends. And I think I maybe even wrote it down in my notes, but something about, well, maybe you can remind me like how to make a space timeless and not completely feed into trends. I would be so curious to know with your friends and being in college, like,

Are you an outlier and most of your friends faces go more into the trend direction? Or is this just what, you know, all I can expect from a younger generation are have incredible taste like you? This sounds like I'm really, really going to bash on everybody else. Yeah, OK, never mind. Oh, God, that's a terrible question.

We can cut this out. No, you can keep it in. You can keep it in. I am definitely an outlier and all of my friends and family will agree with that. So they're not going to be offended, but I'm absolutely an outlier. I always have felt like a little bit of an outlier in a way for most of my life. So yeah, I think that...

I have a very different taste and style than a lot of people my age. Some people, you know, align with it. Some people don't. But even my primary, if you look at my like YouTube analytics of like who watches my content and stuff like that, I think it's like ages like 25 to 35 is where I'm most popular. And I think that's when...

in your life you are starting to get things together a little bit more and you figured out who you are a little bit more and so you kind of start getting more interested in creating a space that surrounds your personality and what you want your life to look like so that's just an observation but no i definitely don't think you're ahead of your time thank you not to toot my own horn but i definitely think

Not necessarily people are super trend driven, but they just haven't figured out

who they are and how they want that to be reflected in their space. Yeah, that's the time that you are figuring out who you are. And I feel like also it just probably isn't as much of a priority. Like it wasn't for me genuinely. I mean, I barely fit into that demographic that you, but I'm on the high end of that. And I feel like only, you know, I moved into this place

years ago and I still feel like I'm figuring it out but prior to that I was always living with roommates and I lived in New York before this. I'm from Michigan and Michigan before that but in all of those other places I lived with others and so it was sort of like the shared spaces I was just like alright it's you know just going to be what it's going to be and might put some of my input in but often not and I was especially in New York I was never really home so I would make my room as

as comfortable as it could be. But I was paying so much money to live in the city that I was just like, I just never want to be there. And I didn't really care. And then when I moved here, it was the pandemic and it was my first...

of my own and I knew I was going to be here for a bit. So, you know, I was, you know, a decade older when I first even considered interiors. And so I think that's what I really love about your work is it's so approachable.

regardless of age. And it's, yeah, because I think whether you're in your 30s and in an apartment on your own or you're in your 20s and you're living with roommates or in a place on your own, like design just might not be as much of a priority or you might just want it to be, but feel like it's, for me, I feel like it's daunting. Like,

And honestly, this track curves thing, which is specific, but for so long I was like, it's so challenging and I just need someone to come and do it. And then watching your video, I was like, oh, wait, sick. I can do this. I got it. And sometimes I think you just need to be expanded to know what's possible and not blocking yourself from making the small changes that can actually make a big difference. And that's really what I see as a through line in your content.

Well, thank you. I really appreciate that. That's definitely my goal with things. And I think there's like a couple of obstacles that people face in the sense of that. And one of them is going to be finances, as I was saying. They think that having a nice space costs too much money. And so I think some people might shy away from a

approaching that even in the first place because they think I have other priorities, I need to afford groceries right now and not a nice couch, you know, the one that I have just on the side of the road, whatever. But that's not necessarily the case. I understand like working with a low budget and things like that, but there's always ways to go around it and there's always ways to design around any kind of budget no matter what it is. And like you said,

Even tiny things like curtains or a singular light bulb can really make a difference. So you don't necessarily have to have it all figured out. And like you said, with the execution of things, that's something that I find my clients always come to me for because I also do run my own

interior decorating business outside of YouTube and everything. And everybody, they have an idea of what they want, but it's really hard to put it into action and execute it in a way that they're going to like in the end of it in a way that's not going to waste their money because it's

interior design, to be honest, it's very trial and error. The entire thing, very trial and error. Sometimes you need to swap things out, you know, whatever. And so being able to see that complete vision together of what your space is going to look like really is helpful for a lot of people so they don't feel as nervous about it or, you know, aren't second guessing themselves. Yeah, yeah, completely. It's like it must be so collaborative.

So you went to Portland, you moved to Portland for school, but you were saying you didn't decide to study interiors and then you got into that. How did you end up getting into it? You always had this interest, but then when did you decide that you wanted to make a career of it? Yeah, I'm a very strong-willed individual. And I think for a long time, and I think a lot of people deal with this, they have something in their mind that

society is pushing them towards and that people expected you. And that would be to have like a traditionally admirable job, like a lawyer or doctor or, you know, something like that. But for me, anything that I'm not passionate about becomes extremely hard to me, which is a blessing and a curse because it does push me towards what I'm passionate about, but it also makes other things very difficult.

And so when I went to college, I actually, I moved here, went to college. I have this plan that I wanted to go into psychiatry and like therapy and stuff like that because it's something I am actually pretty interested in. But I ended up not liking it in the way that I thought. And I changed my major from neuroscience to economics. And

And then I really wanted to do something with business because that is very helpful for me. Like, I don't like to waste my time in that sense. I want to make sure that I'm getting the most out of what I can at the time of whatever. And so, yeah, I switched my major to economics. And then when I was 18, I also got my real estate license in Portland, which was so hard, by the way. It's very difficult.

I don't know what possessed me. Congrats. Thank you. I don't know what possessed me to get my real estate license. I'm just so interested in houses, but it is a lot more difficult than I think people realize. And it takes so much time. And I was doing real estate school on top of regular school, which is like rough. And then I got my real estate license. I worked at a real estate brokerage for a couple months and then

left because I didn't like it. It was too much bureaucracy for me and it was too much numbers and

not enough house, not enough house stuff. - Were you doing that along with school that whole time? - Yes, I was. - Oh my goodness. - So I was working full time in that while doing school, which is not very sustainable if you could imagine. And then I got an opportunity because my stepfather, who my mom is married to, actually grew up for a little bit in Italy.

And they ended up connecting me with an interior design firm out there. And I'm actually still working with them on a apartment building doing like furnishings and interior stuff. And so that's where I've gotten most of my experience from. And then that is going to be finishing up at the end of the summer. So that is really, really exciting. And yeah,

Amazing. Yeah, that really inspired me to start my own business in the United States and start YouTube after that because I had always... I actually used to make YouTube videos when I was a kid. Don't try and look them up because they don't exist anymore and they only exist in my account. So not happening. But... What was the topic? It was like...

I was like, what, maybe 14 or 15 or something like that. And it was like, you know, those like crazy vlog videos that were really popular, like that in the Chamberlain style. Yeah, love her, but I was not great at it. And I wasn't really anything that paid off. But

But something that I think I'm pretty savvy about in my own brain is understanding branding and understanding, you know, how to navigate that and what works and what doesn't. And so I just had a feeling in the back of my head that, you know what, I think YouTube would work out for me on top of my interior design business and really help that grow a lot because, you

I love watching interior design videos on YouTube. It was like something that I have done for the longest of

of time. So I was like, why not? I mean, I love these random, you know, YouTubers that are talking about interior design. And so why not start my own thing? Because I feel like I also have advice to offer on top of that. And the people that I were watching were not necessarily people who had worked in the interior design industry. And so I thought, oh, well, I think I could have some insight in that as well. So yeah.

And you do. Yeah. Wow. That's, that's so cool. Your trajectory is so kind of crazy. I know. No, I feel like, you know, everything leads to something, you know, like that Steve jobs quote about like, you can't connect the dots moving forward, only going back or whatever. And even, you know, your Emma Chamberlain style vlogs, like at least it like showed you the medium of YouTube and like got you comfortable with all of

all of that and you knew you were intuitive and could learn it and could be consistent. I think it all kind of feeds into each other in some way. And much like you said about interior design being trial and error, I think life is too. You've got to know what you don't want to know what you do. Absolutely. That couldn't be any more true.

Yeah, so you're still in school studying business then and then doing all of this on the side? Yeah, so I'm in college full time. I go to Reed College in Portland. And so they don't have an interior design program. Otherwise, I would do that. But I am an economics major. And basically, I do school...

24-7 around the entire year because once I started my business and that started working out and my parents saw that and they were very very proud of me and I was like you guys I have to take this opportunity while I have it because you know look what I have already made in this very short amount of time for myself and so we had a conversation and so I actually take

less classes at school during the school year. And then I also take classes over the summer. So I have school 100% of the year, but it's less overall. So that way I can still work full time and attend to my clients and YouTube stuff. Wow, you're doing so much. I mean, so YouTube became your platform and to build your business. And like you said, with branding and having a knack for that, like,

I'd love to know a little bit more about what you mean and kind of some specifics that maybe people listening can take away that you've implemented that you think are really working that anyone could apply to what they're doing. Yeah. I mean, the first thing is going to have to be find something that you love to do.

Because anything that you don't love to do is going to come off inauthentically. And there will be a disconnect between you and either the people in your office or the audience watching you. Any of those people, they can sense it might necessarily not necessarily be, you know, something you can point out, but you can always feel that disconnect. And so find something you love.

and then after that, understand it to the best that you can. So work really hard and absorb as much knowledge as you can, learn as much as you can about it, and learn the sides to it and learn, you know, the demographics. And I figured,

I'm watching these videos, right? I'm watching these interior design videos and I love them. And it seems like some other people are based on, you know, other YouTubers view cow and everything. So I'm not the only person out there who has these kinds of questions or this kind of interest. And so then you need to understand, okay, so what are the things that you like that

circle around this bubble. So my bubble would be interior design, right? Things that I really love outside of that is like plants and creating something that is aesthetically pleasing, but also functional. And I also love being, you know, funny and lighthearted and having a good time and not taking anything too seriously. And so that's kind of what I've created my

whole, I can't call it a shtick, because it's my personality and things that I enjoy. And that's how I've created my whole audience. And I think that those reasons that a lot of people share the same interests. And so then they are more enticed to, you know, click on that and watch it and hopefully enjoy it to the best that they can. And yeah.

No, it's so true. And it does feel genuine. And I think that's very solid and a great concise way of putting that. So you seem very self-aware and very intentional with what you do and how you're doing it. How conscious are you?

that you're building your persona and sort of the self mythology of, of all of it. Like, are, are you intentional about things that you share and you, and you don't share, like you had your, your vlogging area and this seems very specific or, you know, sort of in contrast to that, but does, how does that make you feel really to be growing your,

an audience and what has it taught you so far? Yeah, it's actually taught me a lot. I think what you kind of have to do when you're starting out anything, especially if it's something on the internet, first of all, there's a lot of shooting and missing the target. But what you have to understand is you can't get down on yourself or be sad about when you miss. But you do need to pay attention to

to when you hit the target and understand what people like. And so something that I do, at least personally for my own YouTube channel specifically, and when I create like Instagram content or whatever, is I look at what does well and I watch it back. And I'll watch it back several times to understand, okay, this is the format that my viewer likes. How can I build on this and alter it in ways that will still appeal to them?

You know what I'm saying? Completely. So, yeah, there's definitely a lot of like not fails. I don't like to call them because every fail is an experience of learning. Yeah. Experiment. Yeah. So, yeah, that is kind of my method of trying to grow. Is there something that worked really well that surprised you that you weren't maybe expecting? Yeah.

You know what? I have to, let me pull up my like page because there are a couple of those and they actually really do surprise me from time to time. I remember I did this video about, I think it's my most popular video on my YouTube channel and it's called the secret to making Ikea look good in your apartment. Great.

Love to click on that. I thought, ooh, everybody's going to eat this up. They're going to. And they really did, like way more so than I thought. And it was really shocking to me. And all the support that I had gotten from that video really helped to grow my channel and grow my audience and grow my business. But I didn't think it was going to do that well because at the time I was only actually I was doing pretty well online.

for myself. So that was definitely a pretty big moment. But I would say the biggest moment was definitely the first video that I put out on YouTube got like 10,000 views, which is kind of insane. And it was like this little like spin off of this series that Home and Garden does called Design Notes. If you are interested in interior design and watch YouTube, I'm sure you might be familiar with it. It's

but they like sit down and talk through everything. And so that's what I did for my first one. And people really loved it. So that was pretty surprising to me. I love that. So what is your process like with videos, like from idea to execution with both videos and design projects? You know, how do you approach, like when you get an idea, how do you collect them? Do you

you seem like you must be very organized because you are doing so many things and you've done so many things already.

Do you capture them in your phone and then jot down notes? Or do you have a place where you like certain days when you do scripts or kind of storyboard a video or plan a project? Or can you vacillate between the two? I'd love to know a little bit more about how you spend your days and handle having so many

different plates spinning at once yeah definitely i mean with youtube i would say that comes super easy to me when it comes to ideas i have like a note in my notes app on my phone called video ideas and then they just will come to me randomly or i'll be inspired by things that i've done in the past or things that i see other people do and then i kind of build on that and then i will go to my

my audience, a lot of my subscribers on YouTube follow me on Instagram, and I'll post a poll on my Instagram story and say, hey, which video idea do you want to see? I have these next couple videos ready to go and ideas about them. And then I have people vote. And then whatever the top one is, then I then I do that one. So I like to make sure that, you know,

they're getting what they want. Yeah, that's so smart. But for YouTube videos, I once I have the idea down in like secured, I will go and create a little this is so like school of me to do but I create a like Microsoft document and then I write down Okay, so what are the points that I want to make about this topic and I go down and I write the main points and then I

look at each point and then I'm like, okay, so what are the sub points to this topic that I think are important for people to understand? And then I write all those down.

And then my videos are not scripted at all. I don't like to script things just because I find it very difficult to talk like a normal person if things are scripted. Yeah. Yeah. And so from there, then I have like this whole like list of things that I want to talk about and go into in a certain order. And then I will film it. I film just on my phone and then I,

I edit it and then I post it. And they're so incredible. You honestly have such a knack for this. It's not surprising for both interiors and your personality and your YouTube and spaces, your style, all of it. It's very unsurprising to me that you had such success immediately because really you'd been, you know, you had been...

at it since you were a kid, you know, and really developed a taste and a style in both YouTube and interiors. And,

You know, like I said, I really love that your approach to interiors is so approachable and it really encourages people to have a space that feels like them and including personal touches and their own style and, you know, cords and things that we use. And we...

With that, I'm curious with how you see the role of interior design creators, because there are so many, which is probably why your videos got served to me in the algorithm, because I obviously must have been...

clicking on a bunch of them. And I'm so glad it did. And I'm so happy to meet you. But like you said, there's so many, which I think was your point to finding a niche. And it's not a bad thing that there are other people doing what you want to be doing, whether it's writing a kind of a book or a type of a niche on YouTube. It just shows there's a market for that. But with that, specifically with

interior design, something that I talk about with my friends sometimes and I'd love your thoughts on is like with the way that the internet makes everything a bit more like there aren't really subcultures as much anymore and everything becomes homogenized rather than unique, which is very boring. I love that you encourage people to make it their own and make it original. But do you think things are becoming more

the same or has that always existed within trends and it's just we're seeing it more because of social media? Yeah, I mean, it's really a matter of like, I guess people would call it market oversaturation when you have so much accessibility to all of these ideas and concepts that it starts to merge into one thing. And honestly, I think that this happens a lot when it comes to trends. I see a lot of people

Not necessarily ones that I watch a ton, but I know there are some creators who are a little bit more trend driven and I'm not backing them at all. I think that, you know, there is something to interior design trends because without interior design trends, we would have nothing timeless.

Nothing. So yeah, I think there is, you know, kind of a side to interior design that is like that. But I, I like to think about it in this way. When I have a client and I design their space, um,

it is 100% personal to them. And if you think about it, if somebody is being genuine and somebody is being honest with you and you can see them and understand them for the person that they are, so cringy that every single person is different. Right. And so every single person's space is going to look different if they're doing that in a way that's authentic to them rather than something that, you know, might just be pulled off of Pinterest.

So I think, you know, when people have a design approach that's more meaningful and authentic, that creates much better design than something that, you know, you could just pull off the Internet and copy and paste into your house. Yeah, completely. Like one of those videos that you mentioned, your video, I think it was like something about timeless versus trendy. I love how you said that of like we wouldn't have –

Like there's a there's a positive to everything. And I feel like that even trends allow you allow you to have the contrast to know what is what is timeless. Speaking of trends, though, what is a trend that if there is one just off the top of your head that you currently like?

And one maybe that if you can think of it off the top of your head, that one that you're going to skip. Yeah, I mean, I can definitely name that. I can say that some trends that I have been liking lately, I know that, you know, 70s styles have really made a huge comeback in the last couple of years. And I love that. I love that bandwagon. So I'm all for that trend.

Some trends that I would avoid, though, is kind of the things that you would see being really put out by, like, mass producers. So think about, like...

like Crate and Barrel and HomeGoods and stuff like that, where you have maybe a super, like, I know it's been a little bit, but Checkered is super in right now in a way that I don't think is super timeless. It can be done right, like anything can, but I think there's a lot more people using that in a more friendly way.

I also really love the trend of color drenching. So this is basically, I'm sure you've might have heard of this, but you paint everything in the room one color. You paint the walls, the trim and the ceiling all one color. And actually this is an exciting day to do this podcast because before I hopped on this call, I actually just signed a lease at my new house.

Oh my gosh, congrats. And so I'll be moving in a couple weeks. And I think that I've been contemplating doing some color drenching in there, which is a little bit, you know, maybe not as expected from me considering I hope people don't take me in this way. But I might be perceived as like bashing all trends because sometimes I'll make like

Instagram reel where it's like, or TikTok, where I'm like, my interior design ics or things that I don't find, you know, timeless, whatever. Those are just for fun and, you know, entertainment. But there's a lot of things that I do. I do like so. Yeah.

Oh, another exclusive on this show. I'm so stoked to see you design a new space. That's so exciting. So thinking about both that, your new place and just in general, where do you draw inspiration from outside of Design Trends and other creators? And how do you, you have such a distinct

How do you stay connected to your own taste and avoid getting overly influenced by designers that you really love? Yeah, I mean, something that I really love to do is look at like very old vintage magazines and books that have, you know, vintage interior design in them. And I really take a lot of inspiration from people

I also do take a lot of inspiration from Pinterest, as a lot of people do. But the inspiration that I take from the internet, I would say I take a little bit lighter and not as seriously. And I like to see what people are doing that's new and that's now. And that's

you know, draw from that and say, "Ooh, what do I like about this? Do I like the color palette here? Is this a color palette that I haven't really seen?" And I like that, and I kind of like save that in the back of my head. So I would say I draw inspiration from everywhere. I also draw a lot of inspiration from just like being in the world and going to different places. I also draw a lot of inspiration from architecture because my personal design style is very structured, if you have noticed. So

That is a big thing that I like to pay attention to. Yeah, no, I love that. So one thing that we talked about a bit before we started recording that I'm so particularly excited to get into is that you mentioned that you often get asked for help

from people in your real life, not your viewers necessarily. So they might not completely understand. Your audience maybe knows this one area of you better than even some of the people in your life. So when your friends and family and close people in your life ask you for design help and their taste is different

different from yours, how do you navigate that? Yeah. I mean, it really depends on the person and my relationship. It really depends on how close I am with somebody. My mom asks me for my opinion on things a lot. And I think I sent her a text this morning. She was like, do you like these bar stools? And I was like, no, just literally no. And then I sent her a bunch of different options of what I thought

she might like in her kitchen or whatever. But it can get a little bit tricky. I

I am very adamant that I do not give my opinion unless it's asked for because I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings. I don't want to tear anybody down or make them feel bad. And just because I don't like it doesn't mean that's the final decision. Just because I work in interior design does not mean that I am the main authority or the interior design police. Like, it's totally fine to have your own style that I don't like. Like, that doesn't matter.

You're your own person and so, you know, whatever you love, all to you. But if you ask for my opinion, I'm a very honest person and I will be very straightforward with people and give them my opinion if it's asked for. But otherwise, I usually tend to, you know, withhold it, even if it's interesting.

That's the perfect way to handle that, I think. You know, I mean, you have to read the room, honestly, is all you can do. So it sounds like you do it well. Is there a design? I don't want to call it necessarily like mistake, but something that you see often that maybe has like a quicker fix or an easy fix that you could offer people, something that you see in spaces that's kind of a

a pattern per se and that you could be like, if you just tweaked this one little thing, do you have anything like that? I mean, yeah, I have a couple things. So I think...

There's a couple things actually, and one of them is going to be things like taped onto your wall. I see a lot with people my age, like my friends or family members will hang posters on their wall or, you know, whatever. And a really quick fix for that to really help make things look a little bit more together and a little bit less random is going to be putting those into frames. So that's something that can really help elevate your space pretty quickly.

Another thing that is also really helpful that I actually talk about quite a lot, and I talked about this,

A couple days ago in like a TikTok that I posted and I am talking about this in the video that is coming out this Sunday. And that's your lighting and like the kind of light bulbs that you have in your space is really important. That's what I say. It's like the number one like low budget quick fix is if your lighting is wrong, everything is going to be wrong. It doesn't matter if you have a $5,000 couch or all designer furniture. If you have bad lighting, it's not going to feel nice in there for anybody because

And so it's really important to have the right colored bulb in your space. So it feels cozy. Completely. That's such a big one. I feel like that I was telling you before we started recording, I had this like monstrosity of a ceiling fan in here and I switched it to one of the lantern lights. I think you have that too. Yeah, I saw yours. Yeah, that's cute. And with a dimmer and it like just that, you know, that alone, like I felt better about the space with like literally just, just that.

And not the like, I don't like any overhead light really, but that one was particularly bad on the, on the fan. So I, I love that one. What about something unexpected? Like you mentioned this in one of your videos, I think once about having an unexpected object and that making all the difference.

How do you find or decide what that item is? Or can you talk about that a little bit? Yeah, absolutely. I am such a huge proponent of this point. And so, you know, what Katie is alluding to here is like the unexpected object theory or the unexpected object rule. And basically what that is, is that you need to have something in like each room of your home that is unique.

inherently you, like you love it. Maybe it's something a little bit weird. Maybe it's something a little bit abnormally shaped, you know, it doesn't matter.

But it needs to be super personal to you. And maybe it's a little bit unexpected. Like if you have like a funny picture with your friends or, you know, a weird sculpture that you just like weirdly like for some reason, like those can be examples of it. Or, you know, like a funny little couch pillow that has like a slogan on it, you know, whatever. I love that. What about other design rules that you tend to break? Are there any that come to mind that...

you break regularly that still surprise people and what makes breaking them work? Yeah, I hate design rules a lot. I really don't like a lot of them because I find that they're very limiting to spaces. I think that interior design is such a case-by-case basis that I don't think it is

fair to employ a list of rules to every single one of those. And so I break a lot of them quite often, but I would say the one thing that is good to keep in mind that is an interior design rule is going to be measurements for your space. I know it's a little bit boring, but to have

you know, your coffee table a certain distance away from your couch or where it should be placed or how long it is in comparison. That kind of stuff when it comes to scale really does matter. But something that I do break quite often is probably the design role that you have to

have, there's like a design rule where you have to tie colors from like each space into each other in like one certain way. And I don't think that this is true at all. I think asymmetry and, you know, color, you

in an unexpected way, or maybe just one pop of color or something like that can be used without having to do it multiple times throughout and still make a big impact and look nice. I think a lot of people and designers get caught up in making things too matchy-matchy, which if that's what you like, sure, but I think that can really elevate a space to do something a little bit different in that way. Yeah, completely. Do you have... This is like...

Kind of specific, but speaking of like the size thing, in one of your videos, you were talking about getting a larger duvet cover than your... Can you talk about that? Yes, yes. Actually, this is a great thing to bring up. I'm so glad you said that because it is like interior design secret. So, and everybody needs to hear this. So when you buy a duvet cover...

and a duvet insert for your bed. That's like the like white fluffy thing and then whatever you get for the cover. But you want to buy a duvet insert that is one size larger than your duvet cover because when you go on the website and you see, ooh, that looks so comfortable. Ooh, it looks so fluffy and nice.

that is a size larger duvet insert into the duvet cover. And then a lot of people order, you know, a queen size insert and then a queen size cover. And then it gets there and it looks really flat on their bed because prop stylists, when they're doing shoots and stuff, they, you know, we'll use a larger size to kind of overstuff the duvet and create that really fluffy and nice look. And so when you,

are, you know, buying bedding for your space, it's always good to if you have a queen size duvet cover, then you want to buy a king size duvet insert and then it'll feel really nice and fluffy and you'll really get, you know, what you want out of it. It might be a little bit more pricey, but it's definitely really worth it in the long run. I love that. And I want to try it. But I'm is it hard to get it in there? Like, it's not okay. So a lot of because I was like, I have trouble do every time I do my laundry. I'm like,

All right, here we go. Like it's my least favorite chore. No, I totally get that. It's so many people's least favorite chore, but it's actually so, it's so simple. And a lot of duvet covers, this is random, but if you like look at the inside of them, they'll have ties where you can tie together your duvet and insert in the cover. So you just kind of tie it to that and just. So it's no different than if you had the regular size, it doesn't make it more difficult. No.

Wow. Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna try. I've learned so much from you. And I'm so glad that like the people listening, hopefully are walking away with stuff too. Is there any other small change that can totally transform a room or design or design advice for

smaller spaces, either of those that comes to mind to just sort of leave people with? Yeah, for smaller spaces, I would say, actually, this applies. I have two tips, two more that really apply to everybody. And I would say,

Invest in maybe some larger artwork. It definitely makes a big difference in your space and small artwork is really great, but having a big piece of artwork, at least one in your space, just makes it feel so much more different and makes it feel a little bit more grand and gives the space a little bit more scale and will really help to create that more cozy space.

vibe that people want to go for. And then another thing to add into your space is going to be making sure that you have signs of life. So even if you're a minimalist, it needs to make sure or it needs to look like somebody lives there. You know, if you're reading a book, keep it out when you go to sleep, just put it on your nightstand or whatever. If you like plants, go to Trader Joe's and get like a $5 plant and a pot for it. And that's

That will instantly help your space feel so much better and breathe a lot of life into it. It's really like small things like that and making sure things are practical as well for everyday use. Yeah, I love that. And in one of your videos, you also said that finding plants on Facebook Marketplace, which is a tip that I love too. There's people when they're moving, it's something that, you know, especially if you're moving remotely.

far away where you're, you know, to like a different state or city where that's the first thing that you can't really take with you, even if you're shipping stuff. So there's, you can always find them there, which I really love because it's sad to throw them away. Gosh. Okay. I have a million more questions for you. So we'll, we'll shift them into rapid fire. How does that sound? That's totally fine. But take your time. With juggling so much, it seems like you thrive in the fast paced freelance life that you live. Do

Do you actively build in some slowness or how do you stay grounded while juggling everything? What do you do to relax? Yeah, I mean, it's really, really hard. I do have a lot of moving parts in my life that go on at the same time. And honestly, I think what matters the most is having people around you that support you and, yeah,

you know, are good to and create a good environment. And in the times that I'm not working or busy, I still do block out time for myself, whether that's, you know, taking a bath at night or making sure that I get to spend enough time with my boyfriend. So, you know, it doesn't matter, but

It's really important for me to make sure I'm spending time with the people that I love on a daily basis. Because I work from home, it's very easy to get roped into working, you know, hours on hours and not leaving my desk. So that's something that I really prioritize. Yeah. What is a typical day like for you? Like, what time do you wake up? What do you do in the morning? Like, how do you stop working at the end of the day and, like,

have time to hang out with your friends? Yeah. So since I work for myself in my business and doing content stuff, I have to be very strict on my own schedule because I can pick it. So it's very easy to like succumb to your brain in the sense if you don't want to do stuff. So I block out my schedule. I wake up every single day minus the weekends at 630 in the

in the morning and then I have my coffee, I have my breakfast and then I shower and then I film content for about two or three hours and then immediately after that I start answering all the emails that I have for my

business and responding to my clients. And then I will be editing and responding to my clients for the rest of the day and doing schoolwork on top of that. And so that can get really tricky. Right now, it is the summertime, so I'm able to do my classes online. But during the regular school schedule, I have to

be very organized about, you know, when and what I'm doing things. So for YouTube videos, I film YouTube videos on Tuesday and they come out on Sunday. And right now I'm doing two videos a week, not this week because I'm going to visit my boyfriend's family, but I...

am a perfectionist when it comes to videos and stuff like that and so i really try and take as much time as i can to work on them so sometimes i'm up until two in the morning and people don't see that and that's when i finish it and then it comes out the next day at six so you know

So you really made that commitment with two videos a week because you just know that that consistency and that pace is what's best to grow a channel? Is that something that you just knew that, you know, taking it up from one video a week to two would help with that? Yeah, I mean, that's a decision that I made very intentionally because nobody does it anymore. Nobody does it anymore. Yeah.

everybody always wants to watch YouTube, you know, whenever. So I put out videos as often as I can. And right now, as often as I can is twice a week. And so that's what I'm going to do. And I have a very clear vision of what I want to do. And I know exactly what I have to do to make that happen. And I know that sometimes it might be strenuous or take a lot of work, but you know, when you're in that moment, you just have to remind yourself, Hey,

you want to get to this end goal, just push through this last couple hours, you know, you got it. And then, you know, then it's done. Wow. Oh my God. This is, you really, you're really inspiring me in a way that I wasn't expecting because I

I was more similar to you when I started this. You know, I was kind of like this young person interviewing people who are like 10 years older than me and kind of really is a way to get an hour of people's time. And, you know, back then, this is 2012, 2013. I also was in school and I...

was just in admiration of these people and kind of knew what it took to had this ambition, you know, and, and was like, okay, it's coming out every week. Of course it didn't have ads because it also didn't have an audience, you know, but podcasting was so different back then. But, but lately, you know, I'm, I'm figuring out my next sort of phase and, um,

I'm also wanting to bring back some of that ambition that I had when I was younger and how scrappy I was and how I really just like went for it. And this podcast that I love, my friend's brother's show, they, they talk about this often too. They put one out three times a week and that's just what they do because it's similar to your point. They want it to, you know, kind of feel like old radio. And that was every single day, you know, and they said the same thing. Nobody really does that anymore. And, um,

Also, you know, I studied journalism when I was in college and I went to this, I studied abroad for a semester and I remember going to this newspaper and the art director was like speaking to my class and this paper in Spain had won all these design awards. They were like very esteemed. And somebody asked like, you know, I don't remember what the question was like, what is the secret or something like that.

And he was like, look, we put one out every single day. So statistically, some of them are going to have to be good. And like, of course, there's a lot of misses too. Like you said at the jump, like you're not going to hit the target every time, but it teaches you a lot. And I think that for me, when I get out of the flow of anything, whether it's like exercising or if I've just been like

alone for a while, I'm a little shaky like talking to people or if I haven't answered emails for a while, like my inbox is daunting. Like I think just doing it makes it easier. Yeah, you just you really inspire me with the way you spoke about that. Thank you so much. That means so much. I really admire everything that you do. It's very impressive. And it's really cool. And I'm so glad to be on this podcast because of that. But you really have to like just get up and

do it because you can't let fear stop you because if you're doing content creation and starting that,

That is really scary because then people are going to be like, oh, they're really trying hard and they're not doing great. But I don't see you trying, just saying. But, you know, besides that point, everybody has to start there. Like, that's all you can do. And you just have to, you know, get the courage to just do it and not care. Yeah, completely. So you said that you have this...

vision that you're working towards and you know what it takes to get there could you tell me a little bit about like where you want your career to go next or any dream projects that you have or anything that you're excited about for where you want things to go oh my gosh yes absolutely I have

so many different things that I want to do and so much that I want to expand into. I am like, this is going to sound so silly, but I journal a lot about, you know, what I want to do in my life and stuff like that. And every single thing- Not silly, you've come to the right place. It's going to sound like a movie, but every single thing that I write down in my journal ends up coming true.

I love that.

vintage store with things actually priced correctly because you see a lot of people doing that now but then things are really expensive and not accessible to people and I think you know being able to bring that access to regular people who might not have millions of dollars

is really important. And so that's something that I would absolutely love to do. And even further down the line, I would like to be able to design my own furniture in that sense and, you know, have a similar situation with that to where people can actually get it in a way that's not going to,

be super, super costly. And yeah, I just I want to keep doing YouTube too, and try and give my advice to the best of I can. And I'm really excited because now I'm moving into a house. And that's, you know, big change from a studio apartment. And, you know, because of the YouTube stuff that I'm able to do that. And for that, I'm very appreciative. And it's going to help my channel a lot too, because now I have other things that I am really passionate about, like

doing stuff outside with gardening and, you know, like exterior design and things along the lines of that, that now maybe my current audiences might not have been super interested in seeing in the past, but maybe since they have already, you know, seen me before, it might open their eyes to, you know, something that they maybe haven't been exposed to. Yeah. Oh yeah. They'll, they'll grow along with you. And well,

Wow. I'm so stoked for you. And I see all of that happening and, and beyond. And I can't wait to like come along for the ride. And I'm so happy I found you when I did, because I do live in a studio apartment. And I think that that's, what's so cool about you having started where you are is that, you know, I'm absolutely like along for the ride of you living in a, in a house and who knows someday, maybe that will be relevant to me, but yeah,

And it still will be relevant to me here, but you bring in so many more people who can relate to all these different spaces that you've been in different phases. So I love all of that so much. Thank you. I'm so excited for the future. I'm going to try my best to accomplish that. It's going to take some time, obviously, but you know. Yeah. No, it's very exciting. I'm stoked.

Are there any interior designers or artists in general that you look up to or that inspire you or architects or who inspires you or who is someone that you look to for inspiration? Yeah, actually, I am inspired by, you know, a couple of people. I have a ton of coffee table books, so I love looking through those and getting a ton of inspiration. But, you know, someone that I'm really inspired by is the

theories that Frank Lloyd Wright uses in his designs. I don't know if you've heard of him. He's a very famous architect, but he talks a lot about like compression and release and not just the aesthetic side of things, but you know, how it feels when you're walking through a space and you know, how to make that feel in play with scale on a, in a different way than most people consider. I'm also really inspired by this artist who does like,

These drawings of this character actually have a frame on my desk. Yoshitomo Nara. Yeah, I saw this. Oh, wait. Oh, cool. And there's another one. Do you have another one in your bedroom? I do have another one in my bedroom, yeah. I'm super inspired by the color palettes that the artist uses in those pieces. And so I like to carry those a lot through.

design. I think you can get a lot out of art. And I also am really, this is going to sound so boring, but I am also really, I have this still life painting of fruit. If you've seen the first video I ever saw, I'm sure you've seen it. But I'm also really inspired by like random old oil paintings and the color palettes that they use. Because some people were like, why is this like such a famous painting? And it's like, well, think about, you know, what they're doing.

That's beyond just an apple. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. So cool. All right. Well, I guess I'm going to ask you some more, some just sort of fun general questions, but before we leave the interior space, the space space, any spaces that inspire you or anything else within design right now that's

exciting to you that you, you know, haven't gotten to talk about yet or haven't found the exact place, but, you know, maybe you want to share? Yeah, I mean, I haven't had like

I like to make references to people and I get to draw inspiration from so many different random people that I can't name just one. So that's a little bit difficult, but I'm definitely really inspired right now because I am moving into this new space by, you know,

new experimental ways to do outdoor furniture and outdoor design and stuff like that. Because I think a lot of people see like interior design and stuff like that. And it's so much more complex than outdoor design is there's so much more strides to be made in that realm. And so I am really inspired by just like

cool, fun, you know, new concepts that are done outside that, you know, maybe haven't been done in the past is really fun to see with color and stuff like that. So that's what I'm really inspired by right now. But yeah, I don't know. I'm like such a like moment by moment thing and such a trial and error person that it really varies so much.

Yeah. Yeah. No, it's exciting. So when do you move into the new space? I move in in about two and a half weeks from now. So this is going to be like, are you moving in with your boyfriend? No, I'm not moving in with my boyfriend. I love him very much, but no. Um,

But it'll just be your space, so you're not having to merge styles yet? Yeah, that's a really difficult thing. I have a cat, so it's just me and my cat, but I'm moving into a really small little two-bedroom house, so that's going to be really exciting. It's not much bigger than my studio apartment, but it just has walls.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, man, I'm so stoked to follow along and I'm so happy for you. So, okay, here are some just sort of fun rapid fires. We'll see how many we can do. What is the best thing that you've eaten this week, in the last week? The best thing that I've eaten this week? Oh, well, actually, me and my boyfriend were cooking together at his apartment and we made this

homemade penne a la vodka with burrata on top of it. Oh, wow. Oh, my God. That's probably my favorite thing that I had this week. Yeah. Wow. Do you cook a lot? Both of you? Yeah, we both really. Oh, wow. Good. Do you ever get anxious or overthink things, you know, with what you were saying of just the clip of having to put out content? What's something that helps you feel comfortable

connected to what you're doing and feel like you can release it without fear? You know, it's really hard. I'm a very like, I do have a lot of anxiety and, you know, stuff along the lines of that. And so it is like,

scary, but at the end of the day, something that is really just helped me a lot is like I said, having people in your life that you can be, that are super accepting of you and you wholly. And I may only have a couple people that are close to me in my life, but to those people, I can say what's on my mind, speak my mind and have a clear and honest relationship with and being surrounded by those people who support you in such a great way.

helps you accept yourself in a way that you might have not before and you don't have those fears because you don't have people in your immediate circle who would be judging you and you know obviously there's a lot of criticism towards me because I'm on the internet but you know I don't take that into account they don't know me on a personal level and yeah yeah

Oh, good. What is your greatest lesson related to that on friendship? Yeah, friendship. That's a really tough one. I would say that...

Something that is extremely important with anybody in your life is going to be communication and stress. I've had a really hard time trusting people in the past. And so, you know, that's why I have such strong relationships in my circle because I can trust them so much, which isn't exactly something that comes super easily. But I would say, you know, take it day by day and trust.

be yourself and be honest. And if people aren't

you know, receptive to that, or they're like putting you down because of something that isn't reasonable, then I don't think that's somebody that you should, you know, be super open with or choose to include in your life. I definitely don't think being mean or disrespectful to anybody is ever okay. I'm always about respecting anyone, no matter, you know, the circumstances, but

I think that you don't need to, there's a difference between, you know, being nice and being friends with somebody. So I think that is really important to take into account. Yeah, completely. And it's kind of self-selecting, you know, the more that you show of yourself and the people who stick around are the real ones. So you also need to make sure that

you need to make sure that your friends can be honest with you. And if you make mistakes and they have a conversation with you, that's okay. You don't need to feel attacked by that. If it's somebody that loves you very, very much in your life, you should be able to understand, oh, hey, maybe I did do something wrong or I hurt this person's feelings. So I need to take accountability for that. I'm a very direct person and I speak my mind a lot. So

I sometimes can say things that may come off as, you know, very blunt and sometimes a little bit like rude. And so that's something that I have to take into account a lot. And so the relationship that I have with the people in my life is they can tell me when I cross that line. And I've learned significantly since I was younger in the last couple of years that I

you know how to deal with that and understand like adapting rather than pushing away that's so huge that's incredible because i think too you know when a friend comes to you with feedback

I've learned and much, much took me a lot longer than than it's taken you. But I learned that while it's challenging and not my favorite type of conversation, it means that they want to keep you around. You know, I think it means it's a sign that it's an important relationship that you want to grow with, that you want to repair and continue where if they didn't care about continuing the friendship, it would just fade and dissipate.

And yeah, and I think it's great that you're direct. It's something I'm working on. And I find that it sounds like you know how to navigate that really well, which is, you know, for people who perhaps are more like me and more indirect and around the back and through the legs and over the shoulder, but like get there, you know, it's much quicker to go your way. And yet, I think for people who tend to not be that way, it can feel challenging, but

it's a much better way to be, to have clarity and be impeccable with your words. So yeah, that really inspires me as well. Well, thank you. I appreciate that. It's definitely not something that is easy to come to. Obviously, with anything that comes from a lot of experience and hardship in the past. So everyone's on a different journey. Yeah.

Yeah, most of the good lessons do, I think. Okay, one more lesson I'll ask you about then, because I bet you have some good ones with this one. What are some of your productivity lessons that you've had to learn? Or how do you...

any advice that's been helpful to you or things that you've learned, you know, perhaps the hard way about productivity? Yeah. Productivity is something that is really difficult for me. I'm such a ADHD person. So I'm like a little all over the place in that way. And I do have trouble focusing in general. So productivity is sometimes really difficult. And I think

It's about understanding and listening to your thoughts. I think that sometimes if you're productive, sorry, just to jump back really quick, and about understanding what thoughts are valid and that are coming into your brain when you're, you know, being productive and it's telling you to do something else and what thoughts are maybe something that is your, you know, immediate, ooh, I want to go lay on my couch and, you know, eat fries. Yeah.

Right, right.

I don't think it's a negative thing. I think it should be like a positive thing where it's like, okay, maybe you want to do this certain thing, but that can take the back seat for now.

And you can do that, you know, once you've gotten this thing done. And that thing is going to be, you know, eating fries on the couch is going to be so much more satisfying after I have my work done because then I don't have something in the back of my brain. Yeah, I say this all the time that nothing tastes better than dinner with your friend after you've completed your homework. And homework, in my case, I just mean like getting my chores done or my tasks done, but having anything hanging over...

And I think when somebody told me this once of like having being a freelancer, having your own business is feeling like you constantly have homework. You're never going to ever feel like you got it all done. It's just when you take time off, it's really just displacement of work, you know, like front loading before you go and, you know, catching up when you get back. But, you know, that's you just have to mentally work.

move that around so you can be present wherever you are. And yeah, very well said. Yeah, I don't think people get, you know, enough credit that are entrepreneurs and freelancers. Because I think, you know, being in both positions, you know, working a service industry job at a bakery at three in the morning, you know,

I think that, you know, me in that place a couple of years ago would have said, oh, that must be so easy to, you know, do what I'm doing now. But just because you have your own business or your own endeavors that you have to plan around to make an income and support yourself does not mean that it's easier or less work. It is a lot more work, actually. So, you know, I think that's a pretty common misconception. Yeah, yeah. And I think we'll always care

care more too you know I've had full-time I've had a one full-time job but I was there for six years and even though I was respectful and I always cared about the people that I worked with genuinely you know and I never wanted to bite the hand that fed me so to speak but I

Never was going to care about that in the same way that I think you probably care about your work and me with mine because it's always going to be less personal, you know, and I think that actually helps to be able to switch on and off a little bit. And that's just not possible with me.

Especially if you're doing something as personal as I think in both of our cases. Yeah, absolutely. It's like you don't get to clock out of your shift. It's 100% of the time I get emails all hours of the day and working on things. It's all hours of the day. And the thing is it's not like, ooh, I could care a little bit less about this. It's like I'm doing this wholeheartedly. And so I physically cannot screw it up because –

it will like hurt. It will like, it's like, you know, it's like an arrow in the chest. It's, it, it's not pleasant because you're so personally invested. Yeah, completely. Yeah.

Okay. This is sort of a left turn or a hard pivot, but do you have a time that you, what I like about you is that you don't take yourself too seriously and you're like, and on the joke and can have a laugh and it's adorable. And I relate. And I feel like I, you know, when I watched your videos, I was like, Oh, he's,

cool. Like I would want to have a conversation, get a coffee, like, you know, and I don't feel that way about every creator for sure. I might like really gain a lot from someone's content and, or learn something or even like find it quite helpful. But there are many people I watch or listen to that. I'm like, I'm all, thank you. But I'm like, I'll say on, you know, further, uh,

like you as a person, you know, and just like different people, but you seem to be someone who like maybe has a has a excellent sense of humor. So what makes you laugh? Like, is there something that made you laugh recently? I know this is a hard question to answer. But is there a time that you laugh the hardest that you remember that, you know, often it's hard because they're like inside jokes or like personal things. But if there's something you can think about, oh my gosh, everything makes me laugh. I really, as you said, I do not take myself too seriously. And I think that's

the number one problem with my audience sometimes is that they take me too seriously because I'll be very informational. But information, don't be confused with something set in stone or anything like that because I'm a very humorous person and I am always trying to have the most fun around whatever. But I'm trying to think. I...

Oh, well, the other day, this is so like small and silly, but it made me laugh pretty hard. My cat, I have a kitten. I like came out of the bathroom and he's like eating my desk chair. Like it's like a wooden chair. Oh, cool, cool, cool. And he's like eating it. I'm like, what are you doing? What's his name? His name is Franklin. Oh, I love it. He's a little black cat. I don't know where he is. Somewhere. Somewhere.

Yeah, I was gonna say he's never made his way into your videos. So he's pretty new? Yeah, he's pretty new. I mean, he's actually been around for like three months. So yeah, but he doesn't, he doesn't like when I'm talking in a way that's like, not to him, he will like go on my bed or something and lay. Because he knows like, oh, he's busy right now or, you know, whatever.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Work mode. Wow. Good. That's probably helpful. It is definitely helpful. Do you have any routines that you do in the morning or in the evening that kind of help you and set the tone for your day? Yeah. I mean, something that I've had to learn as I've gotten older is that, oh, it's so annoying because you just want to live your life free all the time, but you have to have some structure. Honestly,

On a daily basis during the week, unfortunately, you have to get up and go to bed at certain times because it's very good for your health. But yeah, I'm somebody who is like very, I prioritize my health over like a lot of things. And I make sure that I get

you know, at least nine hours of sleep a night and I get up early and I have my coffee and I make sure to eat breakfast. And in that time period that I wake up, I will turn off my alarm on my phone, put it back down, have my coffee and eat breakfast without any screens because my day consists of screens all day. So I have to make that time not to do that. And I always make sure that I go

to the gym a couple days a week and get exercise and get myself outside and you know seeing you know loved ones and everything you love that what do you eat for breakfast do you switch it up yeah I mean I like it's so boring my breakfast but I'll have like iced coffee and then this morning I had some scrambled eggs and some toast and then some oatmeal that's that was my breakfast today

I, too, am a big breakfast person and, like, I have to eat first thing in the morning, too, to, like, wake me up, kind of. Okay, here are just a couple quick recs, if you can think of them, and you can skip some of that if you're like, I don't know. Is there a book that you love that you want to recommend to people? It can be any type. Well, there's a great novel called Piranesi by...

Oh, I don't remember her last name. Her last name is Clark. So if you look up Piranesi and then Clark, it has really great, beautiful descriptions of architecture. And it's just a very beautiful little story. So yeah.

Oh, I love that. What about movie? Favorite movie or like just a movie that you like that you want to recommend? My favorite movie is Coraline. It's always been my favorite movie. So, you know, it's just like a little Halloween. I don't even like Halloween that much. I just always loved that movie for some reason. Are there any...

films or TV shows or any sort of media interiors that stand out to you that were inspiring to you or that you just like? Yeah, I mean, I definitely love me like anybody, a nice little architectural digest tour or a little design notes or, you know, whatever on YouTube. Yeah, those are like a, that's a little thing that I'll indulge in just to, I like to see what people are up to.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is there one that you love that you go back to? Like I have one for sure. Like that's – it's old, but it's like one of my favorite. Who is that? I used to – I could like have it memorized. Who is that? You might hate it. I'm kind of nervous. No, no, no, no. It's David Harbour and Billy Allen's New York, but not the recent one. It's their New York one. It's an apartment in New York. This would have been like 20 –

2018 maybe 2019 because now they have a house yeah the irish yeah because it was just david harvard yeah

Oh, the one about the one the Lily Allen house? The house? Yeah, like the time. Yeah, that one is cool. But she's not even in this one. It's just his and he just says like, it's his but I just knew they were together. So I hers too, I guess. But I think what I loved about it, I really like him. Like I just whenever he's interviewed on podcasts, he just seems like much like you somebody I'd like want to get a coffee with, you know.

And what I loved about it so much is, this is like a part I have memorized. I haven't watched it in years, but I just, I really liked it. But he was like,

you know, showing the bathroom and he's like, yeah, you know, I do have a candelabras in my shower lit because I always have that, you know, and like just kind of in on the joke. And he was like, yeah, my interior designer just like made me do this for this video, you know, and I just that made me like it even more. But I really did like the style. And I don't even know if honestly, now that I'm thinking about it.

I remember there were a lot of plants and I'm like, oh, wow, if I watched it now, I might like think it was I might not like it. I might think it was too cluttered or just the taste would be it'd be I'd be curious to watch it now and and see what I thought if we if we had more time, we would like turn it on and we could do a commentary together on it.

Yeah, it's just funny how like taste changes with that too of like something that you really loved and is just like, oh, not for me anymore. Might not even be for them. It sounds like they moved. I'll have to go back and look at that one. I don't think I've seen it before. Yeah, I'll find it and I'll send it to you. Yeah, so are there any that you love that stick out to you? Yeah, I mean, I like...

There's like bits and pieces of certain ones, but I can name a couple off the top of my head. So everybody knows the Dakota Johnson Architectural Digest tour because it was the green kitchen and the limes that she's actually allergic to in real life. Yeah, iconic. Dakota Johnson, her living room and dining room, I really, really love. I think those are done...

really beautifully. I really like Emma Chamberlain's kitchen in her new one that she just did. It's like this beautiful old house from the 70s with skylights going up and it's this beautiful like sage green kitchen with a bunch of green marble. It's pretty cool. Yeah, so those are two that I can think of off the top of my head. I really liked those as well.

All right. Anything else that you want to leave people with? I usually ask, like, is there a piece of advice that's been helpful to you or a favorite, like, quote or mantra? I know it's kind of cheesy, but anything that someone gave you that's, you know, been genuinely useful? Ah, that's a tricky question, but I don't know. I feel like you just have to do the best that you can, right?

on a daily basis and don't be too hard on yourself about things. I like to imagine the best advice. If I like to imagine if I'm having a hard day that one of my friends had the same day and they came to me with that piece of information, how would I react to that?

And if you have a good friend and you're a nice person, hopefully you'd be empathetic towards it. And I think sometimes we don't have empathy for ourselves. So, you know, putting, doing that little like theoretical, whatever can sometimes help you have some more empathy. And if you need to take rest, you should. And, you know, if you need to work, then you got it. You got, you can do it. Like it's not your, you'll live. Yeah.

Yeah. And being honest with yourself about which one it is. I think that's you have to it vacillates and sometimes it's pushing yourself and that's actually going to be the thing. And sometimes it's like knowing when to stop so you don't get burnt out. And yeah, I'm very much still figuring that out and probably forever. I'm still figuring it out, too. So.

Yeah. Well, is there anything that you wish people would ask you that you never get to talk about or anything else that you want to share? Did I squeeze you for all your juice? Anything you want to let out? Yeah. I mean, I just feel like sometimes I think people obviously take me too seriously and I think they should take me way less serious because I'm like,

I don't mean anything set in stone and everything is good intentioned. And I think, you know, every single like hate comment that I get on the internet is always somebody not listening to the full story. And I'm going to say, if you're going to do that, you know, I'll take advice. Advice is fine. But if you're just going to be mean, at least like listen to the whole thing and then be mean. Because I'm just like, you guys, come on. But...

What are you going to do? I don't know these people and I don't know why they're leaving 10 paragraph essays on my comment section. I can't even imagine. I never, I guess I never would have get, I mean, of course, I guess it happens to everyone, but I'm just like your, your content is so good.

I just don't know what someone could find 10 paragraphs to have a problem with in that. It's so like generally lovely and helpful and sweet and easy to goes down real easy. So it's just, yeah, that it's those people are to feel sad. I just brush it off. I'm like, okay. Yeah. Good. As you should.

All right. Well, the name of the show is Let It Out. So will you let out a deep breath with me? Yeah, of course. Okay. Inhale. Let it out. There you go. That's funny. I like it. Well, thank you so much. Thanks for doing this. And it was so nice to meet you. And, you know, everyone should go and watch everything that you do from here on out. And I'm so excited to see where you go. And I've already loved it. I'm so glad that...

I think, thank you to the algorithm bringing us this episode because you popped up in my, in my algorithm and played. And honestly, I think your video, like I have a projector and I think it, it just auto plays videos and it played. And I was like brushing my teeth and I was like, Oh my God, he's so, this is like so great. And, and then I went back and like emailed you like right away. And then here we are. And it's, you know, it's just, it's funny how that happens. So

Anyway, thank you again so much for doing it. I'm really grateful. Thank you. I really appreciate you inviting me onto the podcast. It's always really fun to talk about things and maybe give people some other insight to maybe things that I don't normally talk about just because I am very informative and I'm like an advice person when it comes to what I normally talk about.

Yeah. Well, this was great. This was great. And I'm stoked for people to get to know you more because you're, you know, I'm not surprised at all, but you're really easy to talk to. Well, thank you. And you did a great first podcast. Congrats. It was great. And where can people find you?

find you obviously i'll have everything linked but if people want to work with you are you accepting clients and how does how does that work do you work with people only in portland or do you work with people remotely or how does that work i actually have i do you know domestic clients in the us everything is remote and so i have clients in portland i have clients

across the country and I have clients that are international as well. So, you know, it doesn't matter where you live. You can, you know, go onto my website, which we can put in the description or whatever, just so I don't have to read all that out. But yeah, absolutely. You can, you can find some information on there about me and I have free consultations. So we set up a meeting in chat and, you know, we talk about your space and,

you know, if you choose to move forward, then great. And if you don't, then we had a good time. So, you know, whatever. But then you can also watch me on YouTube. My YouTube is called Cooper Plants. Yeah. I love it. Okay. Well, we'll link to everything and everybody work with him and support him. And obviously he's incredible. And I hope this sends a lot of people your way. And yeah, thanks. Thanks again for doing it. I appreciate it.

Alright, that was my episode with Cooper. Thank you so much for listening. Go watch all of his videos and I am going to do the same. I just, I think he's the greatest and I can't wait for you all to, you know, send us photos of your spaces and

If you liked this podcast, let us know and maybe he can come back and we can take more questions or, you know, we can. I'd love to collaborate with him again. And I'd love to know if you use any of these tips in your life.

And I have and I will be and I'll share too. But thanks again for listening. If you are new here, go check out the archive. And I am back to sending regular sub stacks. So let it out lists on sub stack. The link is in the show notes. And it really helps if you want to share this with somebody else or leave a review. I just want to keep talking to people and keep making these. So if you're still here...

At the very end, I'm so grateful. And send us a emoji. Comment on his most recent Instagram post or mine or let it out with the emoji of the couch, the sofa. Yeah, because I'm looking at mine right now. All right. Thank you so much. This podcast is edited by the incredible Jeremiah. And I will talk to you in two weeks. Bye-bye.