Failure: After The Burial (Book 6, Chapter 22)
44:43 Share

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop. With Mint, you can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments, but that's weird. Okay, one judgment.

Anyway, give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch.

That's why the Sleep Number Smart Bed is the best bed for couples. You can choose what's right for you whenever you like. You like a bed that feels firm but they want soft? Sleep Number does that. You want to sleep cooler while they want to feel warm? Sleep Number does that too.

Why choose a Sleep Number smart bed? So you can choose your ideal comfort on either side. And now save 50% off on the new Sleep Number limited edition smart bed. Limited time exclusively at a Sleep Number store near you. See store or sleepnumber.com for details. Worried about what ingredients are hiding in your groceries? Let us take the guesswork out. We're Thrive Market, the online grocery store with the highest quality standards in the industry. We restrict 1,000 plus ingredients.

So you can trust that you'll only find the best high quality organic and sustainable brands all free of the junk. With savings up to 30% off and fast carbon neutral shipping, you get top trusted groceries at your door and you can stop worrying about what your kids get their hands on. Start shopping at thrivemarket.com slash podcast for 30% off your first order and a free gift. I mean, it's, it's not you. It's me. Things have gotten so complicated. You know, we just don't click anymore. And I feel like you're slowing me down.

That's why I moved to Monday CRM. It just feels right. It's an intuitive CRM packed with real AI tools and helps my team close deals faster than ever. If you're ready to use a CRM that actually gets you, visit Monday CRM and start your free trial. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. This season on The Dream.

Supplies are being provided by nurses who run out in the middle of the night and purchase diapers. But the hospital is still charging as if they still have these items. We are digging into every topic we've ever wanted to cover on this show. It's a spinning plate analogy. The second that you stop spinning those plates, that crashes. So you can never stop working. The Dream Season 4 comes at you weekly starting Monday, January 20th.

ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. ACAST.com Chapter 22, After the Burial. Patches of bright blue sky were beginning to appear over the castle turrets, but these signs of approaching summer did not lift Harry's mood. I'm Casper Ter-Kyle. And I'm Vanessa Zoltan. And this is Harry Potter and the Sacred Text. So Casper...

We have announcements. But first, I would like to say, welcome back as co-host of Harry Potter and the Sacred Text.

He's back. He's back. The undisputed Harry Potter heavyweight in the history of the world. No, I'm kidding. I'm so glad to be back. I love recording with you. I love recording with Matthew. And I'm really, really excited that we get to walk into the forest together. Your favorite scene in the series. It's coming up. So for the rest of the show,

As of this season, it's going to be multi-guest till the end of book six. But then book seven, you're going to be back just about every single week. I obviously love Matt and I have no regrets about any minute I spent with Matt. And it feels right to end with you. We did this thing together. We did. We did. In 2015. And so it just feels right.

end it together. It will have been a decade. It will have been a decade. Wow. Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow. Okay. I hadn't realized the poetry of that. Yeah. That's so cool. No, I've really loved being able to dive back into the text with you. And it's so fun. You know,

When we started, we would say things like, you know, the text is always new because our lives are new. But it's true. Like, it really is true. And so I'm excited to practice that and, yeah, to end as we started, which is together. Yeah. Yeah. It's almost like Matt was like, do you know what? Casper should probably finish this. That's not what happened. That's super not what happened. But no, I'm just really grateful. I'm grateful to you for being willing to come back. So thank you.

for our Every Flavored Bean conversation, we are going to talk about something that I don't think we've ever talked about in the eight years of making this podcast, nine years, which is how much is a galleon worth? Because we see Professor Slughorn being willing to crash a funeral and steal unicorn hairs in order to make an extra buck.

And at no judgment, teacher salaries are low, but I just, I started poking around the internet and want to get to the heart of this question of how much is a galleon worth? I've got a lot to say about this. So I'm excited to see what kind of bean flavor we end up with. Yes. Yes. The taste of money. And then of course, I want to tell people we have three pilgrimages for sale. We have a writing retreat in conversation with Mary Oliver, with Julia Argy in Montana. Yeah.

We have a pilgrimage in Peru through the theme of possibility with Mauricio Bruce.

And then Caspar Turquoise. What else do we have? We're going back to Prince Edward Island to read Anne of Green Gables through the theme of friendship, because who doesn't need a little redheaded girl who becomes your bosom friend? So come to Canada with me. We're going to walk through the town of Cavendish. We're going to walk through hills and forests and beaches, and we're going to follow Anne's steps through the books and through our lives. So I hope you'll join us in June.

Spots are now available online at not sorryworks.com. Come join me. I am so smad that you're doing this without me. That's sad mad. Oh, I like that. Smad. I've never heard that before. That's cool. So Casper, today's theme is failure. Failure.

And I participated in an epic failure this weekend. Oh, no. Yeah. This is pretty raw, everyone. We, as a rule, like to preach from our scars, not our wounds. And I am breaking that rule right now because I think it's important to cop to our mistakes. I went away for a little beach weekend with our beloved friend Ariana Nettleman. And she and I went to Miami.

And we were walking along a street in Miami and Ariana didn't clock this, but I did. There was a man walking and he was holding a woman who was much smaller than he was by the back of her neck and sort of directing where she was walking. And they were both adults and she was in a lot of pain. She wasn't screaming or making a scene, but she was making a like deeply, deeply pained face.

And I stopped and grabbed Ariana's arm as they passed us, and I kept watching them. And I was like, "He's hurting her." And Ariana was like, "I can't tell." And I pointed it out. And from behind, he didn't let go, and he was still moving her. But his hand was under her hair, and so you couldn't tell from behind how violent it looked from the front. And I didn't know what to do. I just sort of stood there and was like, "What do I do? What do I do? What do I do?"

And it took a couple of minutes for us to keep walking, but I didn't do anything. And it's haunting me. What's really haunting me about it is just like, I really saw her face and I would like to think that if I was in pain and someone saw my face, that they would scream, right? And so I really am like ashamed of myself that I didn't do anything. It was a very busy street. A lot of people saw them.

And of course, I think I didn't intervene for a lot of the reasons that we don't intervene, which is one, he seemed like a scary person. And so I don't know what I would have done. The police in the United States is a failed institution. And so I didn't want to call the police. I didn't think that they would necessarily make the situation better. I was absolutely scared. And I absolutely did not feel like I had a clear path of knowing what to do. And those, I think, were huge reasons why I failed to intervene.

But I also think the biggest reason why it didn't intervene was fear of embarrassment. Because my kid was being hurt. I knew exactly what I would do, right? Even though I, like, quote unquote, wouldn't have known what to do and wouldn't have wanted to call the police, I would have just started screaming and, like, not worried about the consequences. And Jess would have been like, ah, right? And yet, because this wasn't my child, I didn't do that.

And I really do think I was like, well, I don't know for sure what's going on. Right. Like your brain immediately starts justifying what you've seen. Maybe it's this. Maybe it's this. You know, as a white lady in a city that I'm not even from, like, what right do I have to intervene? And yet, like, I saw a young woman be in pain and I let her walk by me.

And I think my biggest concern around failure in general is that we often don't try things because we are afraid of being embarrassed. And that to me is the biggest failure.

of if you really try something and fall flat on your face, I'm like, I don't care. You were just trying, right? Like, look at you trying. If you make a social faux pas, right? Like those are accidents and you learn, right? There's so many kinds of failure that I really have just like deep, not just forgiveness, like preemptive forgiveness for, right?

And yet a failure to act because you are afraid of embarrassing yourself, I think is the kind of failure that I have the hardest time reckoning with. And certainly the one that I have the hardest time with self-forgiveness for. Oh, Vanessa, that's so... I'm just resonating so much with that experience of like,

I sacrificed my values because it would be embarrassing. So first of all, I'm really sorry. Hopefully this woman is okay. And I'm really sorry for that experience. And I think you're getting to something that's really crucial about failure, which is that the reason why it's so frightening is that like,

We're going to be embarrassed in public. People are going to laugh at us. People are going to judge us. Right? Like we see that with Ron that Hermione has to do a lot of work to make him feel okay about failing the apparition test. And that's a school test, right? It's not even like some of our core values when we fall short of who we want to be. We don't want to feel like a failure. And when we do...

It's really hard to enjoy life, to feel good about life. Yeah. So I think you're pointing to a theme within failure that's really important to understand the dynamics of what is happening. I think we see the same with Draco, right? It's all over this chapter, that sense of maybe even humiliation, right? Like that embarrassment is so, so deep. It's humiliating. Yeah. I would have been putting myself in danger and most likely humiliating myself.

And I still think that this was a failure to act. But as we dive into this word failure, Vanessa, I'm wondering if you can help us know where it comes from. Yeah. So, you know, it goes back pretty far. We've always had failure. Nothing new. But the Latin word for failure is defecare, which is the same root as perfect. But the D means away from. So it's that we are away from perfect. And so if there's a perfect way for us to behave...

failure is what gets us away from that sense of whatever the perfect thing is. Well, Vanessa, it's time for our 30 second recap. And I get to go first to help remind everyone what happens in this chapter. Will you count me in? Happily, my love. On your mark, get set.

Go. So the trio are discussing apparition tests and really, oh gosh, it's really important that we get this memory because Voldemort, blah, blah, blah. And Harry is like, oh, I'd be so lucky. And then everyone's like, oh my God, Felix Felicis. That's what he's going to do. And they get invited to go down to Hagrid to bury Aragog. And Harry takes it and is like, oh, I should really go down there, even though he's supposed to go get the memory. And then he meets Slug.

Well, he overheard Slughorn and then they go down and Slughorn gets drunk because Harry keeps refilling their glasses and he learns all the things about the memory. Well, that's coming in the next chapter, but he gets it. Yeah. My favorite part is that you have rewritten this whole series in that 30 second recap. Voldemort, blah, blah, blah. Did I say blah? That's it. That's like summary of all seven books. Voldemort, blah, blah, blah. I forgot about that one. Done.

I mean, it would have saved a lot of ink. It just... Because this book has been printed a lot of times. All right, Vanessa, let me count you in. Here we go. 30 seconds starting now.

Ron and Hermione go to take the apparition test and Harry takes Felix Felicis and he goes down and he overhears Slughorn working. And then Slughorn is like, ah, dead, Iraq, whatever. I'm going to get blood or whatever from them. Then I can sell it for a lot of money. And then he goes and he's at Hagrid's funeral for Aragog and he's like, unicorn hairs. I'm going to steal some of those. And then he gets so drunk that he actually kind of starts grieving. Well,

and Harry really manipulates him by being like, I'm the son of Lily Evans, and he gets the memory. I am the chosen one. Harry goes full guilt. Do you really not want to fight the person who killed Lily Evans? So Cas would like to talk about the only absolute failure in this chapter, which is Ron being failed for his apparition test.

Yeah, Ron and Hermione are both over the age of 17, so they're allowed to take the test. Harry isn't. And Hermione, of course, passes, having been diligent and directed and destinationed in her preparation. Yeah, she is. But Ron leaves behind half an eyebrow and is therefore failed by the examiner. And I would like to call nonsense on this. Really? You think he should have passed? Absolutely think he should have passed.

If you are apparating and leave half an eyebrow behind, you have successfully apparated. You literally haven't. Part of your body is still splinched elsewhere. Your eyebrow is not part of your body. You can shave it off without any injury. It's like a bad haircut. That's really interesting. So you read that as just the hairs of the eyebrow.

Oh, he's not like bleeding! Yeah, I read it as like a patch of skin with the hairs. No, it's definitely just the hair.

It's like he got a little overzealous with plucking. This is ridiculous. You are trying to see if somebody can do a skill. You're not trying to see if someone can do a skill perfectly, right? Like you want them to do it safely. He safely arrived. And I really, this drives me a little bit up the wall, pedagogically speaking, because

You really have to ask yourself regularly, what are you grading for? And if grading is at all punitive or not about the person learning, I'm very skeptical of this. That's so interesting. You're right, because the only way to pass this test by this standard is perfection. Right. And so...

There's no gradation between failure, like good enough, excellent, perfect. It's like, yes or no. That's really interesting. I hadn't even thought about that. I at least want a really good lecture from the point of view of the teacher of like apparition is so dangerous that unless you are totally confident and are doing it perfectly, you shouldn't be doing it at all. But like this is not convincing. This is something, Casper, I've been thinking about a lot.

Right.

And they are going to be chaplains in a variety of settings, you know, and I'm like, I can't possibly scaffold this class for hospital chaplaincy, hospice chaplaincy, university chaplaincy, right? Like, I can't teach it like that. So I actually invite the students to be like, take these assignments as invitations and do them in a way that works for you and that will help you with your learning goal.

And I just had a student flat out do something else, like not do the assignment, right? And he submitted it. I thought so hard. I was like, would this version of the assignment reasonably help anyone learn how to be a better chaplain? And I was like, nope. And it felt

I'm giving him the opportunity to retry because it's all about learning. It is not about the grade and, you know, pedagogy of love wins. But I think that that always has to be the question of like, did you do what the thing is that we wanted you to learn? Not did you do it perfectly? Which Ron did, right? Like he, it was good enough. It was good. That's very interesting. It makes me think about the way in which

You know, I'm working on a book project at the moment and I'm going through endless revisions of the proposal, which is the document that you send to publishers. And now I'm on version six right now. And it is so hard to keep narrating in my head that version five was not a failure, but it was a step closer to the version that's going to be good enough to, you know, make it to becoming an actual book.

And it's amazing how this kind of apparition-style grading system is baked into our brains of like, well, it's not perfect, so it's bad. And it's like, no, it's better than the one before. And I know that. I know that in my brain. But what I feel is still like, I failed. And that sucks. It doesn't just suck. It's dangerous. I really think it's dangerous. If we wait to do things until they're perfect, I don't know. I would...

I would never feed my children. I'd be like, this mac and cheese could be better. Not to mention, right, like the fact that something could be perfect is an idea of supremacy, right? Like this idea that there's a perfect kind of human or there's a perfect way to look or like this is just such a dangerous way to approach the world to believe that your options are perfection or failure. And I really think that this

apparition teacher failed in his duty to teach children. There you go. That's the real failure. You tell him hashtag pedagogy at Hogwarts. It does put into even more contrast then, which I think is the second big example of failure or lack of it.

the impact of Felix Felicis on Harry. Yeah. You know, we're told that he, because he's totally daydreaming about using this as an opportunity to get together with Ginny, which we'll leave aside the ethics of that for another day. And it kind of happens while he's on Felix. Totally happens. But, you know, he says, I'll just, I'll just have a few sips, you know, enough for three hours. I don't need it all night. And,

And he is transformed, right? Like they've made a plan for him to go and get the memory from Slughorn. And as soon as he drinks those sips, he's like, I'm going down to the funeral that Hagrid has invited me to, which involves me escaping the castle at maybe the most dangerous time ever. So his sense of,

failure disappears completely. Even going to do something that was very counter to the plan they just made doesn't feel like failure to him because he's just taken this potion. Do you think that's about confidence? Do you think it's about certainty? Why is he not feeling like that would be failure? Yeah, it's so interesting, the description of him taking the sip of Felix Felicis. It is absolutely this instant feeling of confidence. But

But it's a confidence in knowing what the right path is, which to me implies that the magical world has an ideal way for things to unfold. And that there are certain ways to sort of tap into that. And that him taking Felix Felicis, it's similar to the Room of Requirement, right? Like Felix Felicis gives you a Root of Requirement, right?

Of like, this is what I want to happen. And therefore, Felix Felicis is going to sort of like, I almost imagine it like a computer. Like it's going to take all the data of your brain and be like, okay, all the things that he most wants to happen is to talk to Slughorn and to date Ginny. And so here are all of the possible things that can happen in order to make that more likely. And it sends Harry on this mission. It does not seem to solely be about confidence.

It really does seem to be like putting him on a conveyor belt to let certain things happen.

but it feels like confidence. Yeah, it's almost like failure becomes impossible as long as he follows that intuition that comes through so strongly. Like the text says, it was when he reached the bottom step that it occurred to him how very pleasant it would be to pass the vegetable patch on his walk to Hagrid's. And it's not strictly on the way, but it seemed clear to Harry that this was a whim on which he should act. And so his willingness to kind of trust Harry

that intuition or to trust that whim makes failure impossible because that's where he encounters Slughorn. And he's like, oh, you know what I should do is take off my disguise of invisibility and immediately make myself seen and invite him over and tell him the truth about, you know, Hagrid, et cetera. So yeah, it's really interesting because part of me was also reading into the Felix Felicis element, a sort of shamelessness that comes about. And we see this really at the end of the evening after he's been refilling the cup

of Slughorn and Hagrid as they're kind of toasting first Aragog, but then every wizard known to man, including Harry Potter. He's brazen, right? He's brazen about using the death of his mother. He gets pretty graphic about what happened to his parents on the night that they died. And he's like, you wouldn't want to help the son of Lily Potter, right, when Slughorn has this emotional reaction. And then he literally says to Slughorn, I am the chosen one. Mm-hmm.

Like there's a shamelessness to it, which I think is fascinating because I think it connects to your story of like being on the street, seeing something that to your eyes with all the information you have is wrong. And like having then the kind of shamelessness of walking up or from a distance, whatever it would be to call attention to what you're seeing and not give a hoot about the consequences of that action, not in terms of your physical safety, but in terms of the social impact

humiliation that could happen if the woman turned around and was like, mind your own damn business, I'm fine, you know, or whatever it would be. Harry is just immune to that, and that feels really powerful as an example of like, well, if you have no shame, you can't fail. Is that fair? Yeah, I mean, obviously...

You can, right? And I think we see that with Ernie McMillan in this chapter. So everybody's taking their operation test, so there are only three students in postpartum.

potions class and slughorn is like they're only three of you right so like we probably i remember moments like this i think is it did this ever happen to you as a kid where like 90 of the class was gone yeah yeah why did it happen i feel like there was a school trip that i didn't get paperwork signed for or like something like that and it was like me and two other kids yeah i think

I think it had to do with being Jewish for us, that like there would be some, like Easter Friday, the school system wasn't closed, but the Christian kids didn't come to school. And so it'd be like me and Kim, you know, like the other Jew.

And the teacher is like, well, we can't move forward with the curriculum because that wouldn't be fair. But also, like, we should do something for you. And so Slughorn is like, why don't you just brew a joyful potion, like something light and fluffy? And Ernie is like, this is my shot. I can impress Slughorn. I am here to shine. And so he makes up a potion and he does it badly. And it is an epic failure. Yeah.

Bernie is someone who is pretty shameless, right? And he's not shy. He's not shy. He's not like, oh, I probably shouldn't insert myself here. Like that's not a vibe Bernie has. But he still fails, right? And I think that this is what I was trying to get at when thinking about whether or not to fail my student on this assignment is like, when is failure time?

to some extent, objective, right? Like, if you're a surgeon, I don't know why this is always the metaphor that comes to my head, right? But like, if you're a surgeon and you meant to amputate the left foot and you amputate the right foot, even if you don't feel shame about it, you failed.

Right? Like you failed to do your job. And so I do think that there are objective failures. And so trying to hold both where you're like, failure is often in the eye of the beholder. And if you don't feel shame, right? Like even...

Best case scenario for what happened this weekend is I scream and she's like, I'm fine. This is my brother and he's annoyed at me and he's being a jerk. And you're like a hysterical woman. Right? Like that's what I want. I want for her to have not been in danger and for me to be wrong and for me to have still tried to intervene. And that is a kind of failure that I think we're all for, right? Like try. There are failures that I do think we have to just be like, that was a failure.

Well, and I think in this case for Ernie, Slughorn says amuse me. So in some ways he's giving permission to swing big and try something that really is, you know, a made up situation. Ernie fails to amuse him. Well, I guess maybe succeeds because it ends up being this like purple blob situation.

But it doesn't delight Slughorn in the way that, of course, Harry's perfectly half-blood prince potion works. Right. But I think in some ways, Ernie's swing and a miss is better than Draco's kind of passable potion where he's done, you know, the obvious thing. He's followed the steps. Like,

I guess I want to praise Ernie for trying something, right? Like he did say something on the street. He was wrong, but he went for it. And, you know, snaps for Ernie. Yeah, he took a risk. He took a risk. And yeah, you're right. I should be celebrating Ernie for risk taking in safe environments and pushing the limits of your knowledge is really important. Go Ernie.

This week's episode of Harry Potter and the Sacred Text is brought to you by HelloFresh. HelloFresh is where you get farm fresh, pre-portioned ingredients and seasonal recipes delivered right to your doorstep. I don't know about you, but I get tired of just figuring out what's for dinner night after

night, especially on the busy weekdays. The kids are here. They have homework. I have work to do. And I look at my fridge and I'm just like, I don't know. There are a million things I could make. And I'm just doing math in my head. But it's easy to find time to eat well with 50 wholesome, hassle-free meals to choose from each week delivered to your door with HelloFresh. It takes all of the guesswork and planning out of it.

Their lineup of prep and bake meals come together with minimal mess and only five minutes of prep, so your oven does most of the work and not you. Get up to 10 free meals and a free high-protein item for life at HelloFresh.com slash HarryPotter10FM.

FM for free meal. One item per box with active subscription. Free meals applied as discount on first box. New subscribers only. Varies by plan. That's up to 10 free HelloFresh meals. Just go to HelloFresh.com slash Harry Potter 10 FM. HelloFresh, America's number one meal kit. They say opposites attract.

That's why the Sleep Number Smart Bed is the best bed for couples. You can choose what's right for you whenever you like. You like a bed that feels firm but they want soft? Sleep Number does that. You want to sleep cooler while they want to feel warm? Sleep Number does that too.

Why choose a Sleep Number smart bed? So you can choose your ideal comfort on either side. And now save 50% off on the new Sleep Number limited edition smart bed. Limited time exclusively at a Sleep Number store near you. See store or sleepnumber.com for details.

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same premium wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today.

I'm told it's super easy to do at mintmobile.com slash switch.

I mean, I think Draco is interesting to point to in this chapter too, because he is such a contrast to Harry in the sense that

Harry sees his physicality, Harry's watching him in this potions lesson, and he's describing him as thinner and grayish and pale and he's lost his swagger, right? It's all these very physical descriptions. And he deduces from that that whatever he's trying, he must be failing.

So in contrast to Harry, while he's enjoying Felix Felicis, we're seeing Draco really failing. And I think one of the things that his story reveals to us is that failure isn't just like a one-time thing, right? Like he is...

for nearly the whole school year now, is stuck in this narrative of failure. And, you know, you look at what happens when people can't find a job or when they keep trying something and it's not working, right? It's not a one-time exam fail like what Ron experienced. It becomes identity forming, right? You can no longer keep the story of who you are alive as someone who...

tries and swings big like Ernie did, and sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't, but it's worth keeping going. Like, at this point, Draco just feels like a failure. It's not that he has failed at something. He is a failure. And that's why I think we're seeing this physical transformation. And it's hard to get out of that, you know? I'm sure we've all felt like that in different moments. And I think that's why I always do feel for Draco, because there's nothing in his world

Not his parents, not the supposed mentors, certainly not his boss at this point, who is helping him see something else that could be true about him. And Dumbledore tries and it's too late. There's a sort of destiny that comes out of this story, the self-fulfilling prophecy that captures him and he cannot get out of at this point. Yeah. Yeah.

Vanessa, it's time for us to dive into our spiritual practice. And this week we are doing Florilegia, where both of us pick a little sentence that sparkled while we read the chapter and we put them next to each other. And I don't want to say we have contrasting sentences, but they are different. And I'm wondering if you might read your sentence first. Happily.

The moon was glistening palely through the trees now, and its rays mingled with the light spilling from Hagrid's window to illuminate Aragog's body lying on the edge of a massive pit beside a ten-foot-high mound of freshly dug earth. And what's yours? It isn't lavender. So I want to start by asking you, why did you pick this sentence?

This is the heart of the chapter to me, right? Like at the heart of this chapter, it's called After the Burial. This is the burial. This is sort of the turning point of the chapter where Slughorn eventually is going to give Harry the memory. And I found the language quite beautiful. I feel like it's rare that in these plot-driven books we have a moment of sort of such vivid memory.

And because the books are from Harry's point of view, what was particularly interesting to me about this sentence is that while high on Felix Felicis'

One of the things that is part of this lucky feeling is being very sensory observant. And so, right, like if you're feeling lucky, you notice that the moon was glistening through the trees now, right? It's this really beautiful and evocative description that I think is very much tied to Harry being stoned out of his mind.

Yeah, there is. That's beautiful. This idea of like sensory awareness is heightened and noticing beauty. Yeah, when you're happy, you're like, have you noticed clouds? Trees, pavement. Bouquets of sharpened pencils. Exactly. And I think Harry's

he's in the middle of that, even though he said a funeral. And so, yeah, that's why it sparkled up at me. What about you? It isn't lavender. It made me laugh so much. I mean, this is right at the beginning of the chapter when, you know, the trio are talking and every time girls' voices appear or there's someone who's about to walk past, Ron is kind of ducking and hoping that it isn't lavender. And so we hear Hermione say two or three times,

It isn't Lavender. It isn't Lavender. Don't worry, it's not Lavender. And then of course, at some point, it is Lavender. So the joke pays off. But it's just such a relatable experience, you know, especially when you're in a school or some sort of enclosed space where you do see the same people over and over again. And there's just someone you really want to avoid. And yeah, it makes me giggle. It's also so mean. Break up with her.

I know. Be a human, Ron. Don't be a toad. Be a human. Even a toad would say, rip it. Right?

And Hermione is enabling. I know there is an interesting dynamic of like, yes, friendship, but also enabling and caregiving and not great, not great set up. Yeah. Just be like, go talk to her. Right. But it's it's understandable. It's completely understandable. I just feel like because Hermione likes Ron, she's not like, I'm not I'm not helping you with this. This is bad vibes.

I'm earning brownie points by being on your side. Yeah. Hate it. Use your powers for better, Hermione. You can do it. And Ron...

be better okay should we put the two sentences together let's do it I'll read yours first and add mine on the end wonderful the moon was glistening palely through the trees now and its rays mingled with the light spilling from Hagrid's window to illuminate Aragog's body lying on the edge of a massive pit beside a ten foot high mound of freshly dug earth it isn't lavender did you have the same reaction as me

What's your reaction? Which is that somebody thought that Aragog's body was lavender and is like panicking. And then they see that it's Aragog and they're like, oh my God, it isn't lavender. And that, right, like that is what's going on in general. There's something we haven't talked about in this chapter yet, which is the Montgomery sisters have a five-year-old brother who just died from a werewolf attack from Greyback.

And there's this moment where Hermione's like, "Didn't you hear?" And Ron is like, "Something's always happening to people's families now." It's just random. Like, people are just getting attacked and it's gonna be Amelia Bones and it's gonna be Frank Bryce and it's gonna be this little kid and like, it almost, you know, on a cosmic level becomes interchangeable. 'Cause there's just so much death and so, yeah, it isn't Lavender now, but it will be at the Battle of Hogwarts.

That is how Lavender dies in the Battle of Hogwarts, right? It's Greyback. Oh my God. Yeah. Whoa. Yeah. Oh, that gives me chills. Anyway, so that's what, right? Like it isn't Lavender now, but it will be. Oh.

Oh, that's so powerful. And I'm also just thinking, right, Aragog literally is a terrifying giant, like, flesh-eating spider. And yet Hagrid loves this spider, right? There's so much transference going on there as well, of course, of him being an outsider and the spider being an outsider, and that's why he loves and venerates this animal.

Hagrid doesn't resent Aragog, even though Aragog is how he got pinned for being the heir of Slytherin and going to Azkaban, right? Like, Hagrid never blamed Aragog. Right. Yeah. Which it's not about Aragog. It's about Voldemort, but...

Absolutely. And that's, you know, Hagrid's saving characteristic is just this endless capacity to love, especially love the outsiders, which, I mean, we haven't even talked about the ethics of his invitation to the trio in the midst of everything else going on. But like, it speaks to his wanting to honor Aragog in this final moment and the way in which

Ron and Hermione are not honoring Lavender, right? Like she is not being given the dignity that Aragog is being given in death. She's not doing that in life. Ugh. Do you want to read it the other way around, starting with mine? Yeah, I feel like I made this a real bummer.

It isn't lavender. The moon is glistening palely. This just makes it sound like it's the plant. Yep. It isn't lavender. The moon was glistening palely through the trees. Now it's trees and not lavender. And it's rays mingled with the light spilling from Hagrid's window to illuminate Aragog's body lying on the edge of a massive pit beside a 10 foot high mound of freshly dug earth.

I mean, what I'm noticing this time is the word "paley" we just talked about is also a word used to describe Draco.

And I mean, now I'm really going off the deep end here, but just like lavender suggests like relaxation and it suggests like, you know, like home comforts and care and massage and like, I don't know, like beautiful dried lavender. Just beauty. Yes, exactly. Like this sensual, rich, loving, caregiving kind of vibe. And that's the opposite of what Draco receives and also who Draco is as a person or has become. Yeah.

And so for all of Lavender's like one, one annoying tendencies, and she sure is like ultimately, you know, we'll never get to see her in adulthood, but like she does signify that kind of love and companionship that Draco is so missing. And that, I don't know if this is going too far, but like our

Aragog, it's so hard to know where the line of like nature and nurture line up for magical creatures because it's a different world, right? But Hagrid has to wrestle with the fact that there are now parts of the forest to which he cannot go. Yeah. Because he's not protected by Aragog, right? Like that loyalty was so well earned from Hagrid in his care for Aragog.

And who knows? Maybe lavender was Aragog's favorite smell. I don't know. Like, I can just see Hagrid creating, like, a little garden for his, like, you know, for baby Aragog. Yeah. There's just, like, so much care that's going into that. And the loyalty and the reward for that, that's not why you do it, but it's the benefit of that kind of loving relationship that Draco never experiences. Well...

Sorry, Draco. That was sad. Thanks, Casper. Thank you. Thanks for floralegging with me. Isn't it so fun how just there's always something that comes out of these sentences? Just great. Yeah. And every time we do it, I think of Stephanie Paulsell's dad. And that's always nice, too, because he taught us. This week's voicemail is from Christine. Hello, Sacred Text team. My name is Christine.

And I am a middle school English teacher who is currently listening through the Harry Potter books with all of my four children in the car for the first time for them to be listening through when you're in the middle of book four. And we just read the scene where Victor Crumb and Harry go towards the woods and they find Mr. Crouch. Now, I'm also in the middle of teaching Frankenstein to my eighth graders.

And as I was listening to Mr. Crouch babble on to Harry, and clearly he has gone mad with the secret he's been keeping about his son and the guilt of knowing what he has unleashed on the world. It made me think of Victor Frankenstein and how he kept this secret of this creature he had created for so long. And he knew that it was out there causing havoc.

And then the guilt that he felt over all the innocent people who were affected by this monster that he let out into the world. And he never told anyone about it. And Barty Crouch never told anyone about what he had done with his son to the point where it drove them mad. So I have a blessing for those people who feel so alone and they do something where asking for help and telling people about a mistake is

could bring end to a lot of pain and suffering, and they just don't have that support system or don't know who to tell. So a blessing to people who need help in those times. May the people around them see it. May they feel the courage to ask for help and hopefully make a difference in some of their own pain and suffering and then that which they had started unleashed on the world, I guess. Thanks for the podcast. Thanks for...

giving me ways to connect different texts and giving me ideas of how to discuss these texts with my own students in my classroom. Thank you.

Christine, thank you so much for this voicemail. I love finding parallels between novels in this way. It makes me think differently also about Frankenstein and about whether Dr. Frankenstein feels this sort of paternal urge with his monster, whereas I think it's shame-based, right? Which is very different than what's going on with Barty Crouch Jr. and Sr. Not disagreeing with you, like to your point. And yeah, I just think community can help us make the right decisions, right?

It's now time for us to remember members of our community who have been loved and lost. And this week we remember Malayla, 2 years and 9 months old, who was so brave and so, so, so loved. Hilly Chohish, 66, mum, therapist and healer. Jock Boodleman, 93, a jazz musician and cared for many stray dogs. Jean Lemieux, 84, a wife, mother and grandmother.

And Dave Wilson, 79, devoted husband and a sweet, sweet man. May their memory be a blessing. And Vanessa, we get to bless someone too. And I'm wondering who you've picked in this chapter to give a blessing to this week. I would like to bless Hagrid. Hagrid is having a big feeling and everybody is judging his feeling. And I just want to say that I'm so sorry, Vanessa,

To anyone out there who's having a big feeling and they feel like they have to hide components of it. I'm glad that Hagrid has this really cathartic experience. I hate that it's like under false pretenses, but he has experienced a great loss. I understand Ron and Hermione and Harry's response to it, but he has actually experienced a great loss. So blessing to anyone who's going through that. What about you, Casper? Who would you like to bless?

I think it's so true that this scene is complicated, but really still very meaningful for Hagrid. Yeah. And that's in part for the man I'm going to bless, which is Slughorn, who shows up and is like the king of blessings and singing. He's like, I've read John O'Donohue. Yeah, exactly. I know how to do this. It gives this real...

really eloquent, like beautiful, yeah, honorary, just beautiful words for Aragog that are completely self-serving. You know, he's there to make some money by selling off some of his venom or whatever it is that he's extracting from this dead body. But nonetheless, like the words he says do the job that something like that is intended for and that it helps Hagrid make

make meaning or put this overwhelming sadness and grief that he feels into a place. And then, you know, they're giving toasts. He's singing with Hagrid. Like, I just really saw...

the skill that Slughorn has in connecting with people that is kind of sidelined and made fun of so much in this book. But here we see the gifts that he has. He helps make people feel good through the words that he says in the songs that he sings. So I just want to bless Slughorn and anyone who's out there connecting with people and showing up giving toasts unasked for, because who doesn't want a toast at dinner? So good for you, Slughorn.

Next week, we're reading Book 6, Chapter 23, Horcruxes, with Vanessa and Matt Potts through the theme of ambivalence. Just a few reminders before we give our thanks. All of our merchandise is on 30% off.

Discount for the holidays and you just have a couple of more days to take advantage of that discount before we close it because we want to guarantee that we will mail it off to you in time for the holidays. So check all of that out at NotSorryWorks.com.

This was a Not Sorry production. We are a feminist production company. We are sponsored by the Fetzer Institute. I'm the executive producer, and we are edited and produced by AJ Ramas. Our music is by Ivan Paizao and Nick Bull, and we are distributed by ACAST. We'd like to thank Christine for their voicemail this week, Arianne Nettleman, Julia Argi, Nikki Zoltan, Courtney Brown, Matt Potts, Anissa Ahmed, Danny Langley, Stephanie Paulsell, and everyone who sent in the names of their loved ones.

The self-serving blessing we've had on this show. I'm going to bless anyone who's really charming. Me! I'm blessing me! And it's June 3rd. And sometimes they're a little so-sing, but whatever. But you know what?

Worried about what ingredients are hiding in your groceries? Let us take the guesswork out. We're Thrive Market, the online grocery store with the highest quality standards in the industry. We restrict 1,000 plus ingredients so you can trust that you'll only find the best high quality organic and sustainable brands all free of the junk. With savings up to 30% off and fast carbon neutral shipping, you get top trusted groceries at your door and you can stop worrying about what your kids get their hands on.

Start shopping at thrivemarket.com slash podcast for 30% off your first order and a free gift. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. This season on The Dream.

supplies are being provided by nurses who run out in the middle of the night and purchase diapers. But the hospital is still charging as if they still have these items. We are digging into every topic we've ever wanted to cover on this show. It's a spinning plate analogy. The second that you stop spinning those plates, that crashes. So you can never stop working. The Dream Season 4 comes at you weekly starting Monday, January 20th.

Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.