Jealousy: The Seer Overheard (Book 6, Chapter 25)
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ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. ACAST.com. Chapter 25, The Seer Overheard. The fact that Harry Potter was going out with Ginny Weasley seemed to interest a great number of people, most of them girls. Yet Harry found himself newly and happily impervious to gossip over the next few weeks.

I'm Vanessa Zoltan. And I'm Jolie Doggett. And this is Harry Potter and the Sacred Text. Jolie, I'm so excited to have you here today. I'm gonna tell you my announcements.

And you can be a stand-in for the audience. First of all, we have a pilgrimage in Prince Edward Island with Casper Turk Kyle reading Anne of Green Gables. What an exclusive get for you guys. I know. I know. Second of all, we have a writing retreat with Julia Argyle.

Talking about the book Upstream by Mary Oliver. Wow. And then, of course, we have our Every Flavored Bean announcement. Our theme today is jealousy. And there is a moment in the chapter in which Trelawney is like, oh, my God, Snape is so jealous of me. And I think she might be wrong. But you and I are going to tell stories of times that we are right and people were definitely jealous of us.

Absolutely. So Jolie, as I said, I'm so excited that you're here today and you are telling us a story on the theme of jealousy. I am. What story do you have for us? When I was trying to think of a story on jealousy, I honestly just couldn't settle on a single story about a time that I have felt jealousy. I could have talked about the time my sister told me that she had gotten a brand new job at the time that I was in the process of losing my own. I

can talk about all the times when someone shows up to my dance class and just nails a move right away that I've been working on for months and I still can't seem to get the coordination right. I can talk about how I've been trying to grow subscribers on my newsletter. You should totally subscribe for a year, but then someone else joins in a week and they get a thousand subscribers and I don't understand why. I've felt jealousy a lot in my life and I think that that's something that most people don't

readily admit that they don't brag about, like feeling jealousy and envy. We have a very anti-hater culture. Mary J. Blige wrote a whole song about how there's no hateration or holleration in the dancery. And if you get that reference, congratulations, you are aging, you are old. Put on some eye cream, start stretching daily, but I'm glad that you're here. But yeah, like, especially in my youth, being a hater was like the worst thing you could be on the social hierarchy.

But at the same time, I feel like our culture also breeds a lot of jealousy and cultivates envy. For those of us who participate in social media, we know that social media just shows people's highlight reels and it's easy to look at things and compare yourself and wish you had that life. And at the same time, you're motivated to post your own highlight reels and get that dopamine, that like, and also creating comparison in other people. And that cycle of jealousy and envy just continues.

And jealousy feels bad. It feels bad in our bodies, like there's a gnawing feeling inside of our gut. But just because jealousy feels bad, I don't think being jealous makes you a bad person. And that's kind of the point that I wanted to make with this story. I think jealousy, like any feeling, is just information. And I think it's what we do with that information

that determines our character. Jealousy just basically means that you want something and wanting something doesn't make you a good or bad person. Wanting something is actually a good thing. It's good to have goals. It's good to be ambitious. It's just a matter of what am I doing now that I have that information? So.

That's what I think about a lot when I think about jealousy in my own body. I tend to try to like ask myself like, oh, like, is this really jealousy or am I feeling something different? Or is it possible to feel jealousy but still feel love for the person who I am jealous of? I think when we avoid or push down or even deny our jealousy, that's when it starts to get kind of dangerous and that's when it starts to feel worse.

But I think if we embrace our jealousy, if we're a bit more curious about it, I think that's when jealousy kind of starts to fade. So those are things I think about when I feel envy in my own life. And that's what I thought about as I read this chapter. I was thinking, does hatred breed jealousy or does jealousy breed hatred? Are people really jealous of Ginny and Harry or Trelawney and her seer abilities? Or is it something else? What is...

The jealousy that is expressed in this chapter, what does that reveal about people's own desires, their own goals, their own fears, their own guilt? And

Specifically for this chapter, I'm wondering how feelings of jealousy can impact our interactions with other people. And I am excited to talk a little bit more about that as we get into it. Jolie, it was like you knew the etymology of jealousy and just wanted to set me up for Etymology Corner. It comes from the same word as zeal.

Really? Yes. And so it is exactly as you're saying. Jealousy is pointing to the things that we feel zealous about, right? And so if you're jealous of Ginny and Harry, maybe you're feeling lonely and like want romantic love. Right. Like, do you actually want to be with Harry Potter? He yells a lot. Like, you just want to be with somebody and that's okay. That's okay. Or what is the thing?

the thing under the thing that you want, right? Yes. Jealousy is actually information about something that you have a deep desire on, I think is wonderful. And I also just always love reminding myself that a strong emotion is information. It does not necessarily mean that it has to determine how I act.

But it's a minimum information about what I value or what I'm sensitive about, you know. And then it can, of course, be information about how we act, but it doesn't have to be. Yeah, I think that's fair. I love the idea of

taking guilt and shame out of our emotions. Like they just, they just exist and they're all here trying to help us live a more full and complete life. Everything is trying to help you. You saying that Jolie reminds me of a friend of mine who had a very difficult three-year-old and she made him five t-shirts that said, I'm here to teach you patience and put them on him every day for preschool. Yeah.

That is so cute. She was like, let's just name this to his teachers. I'm here to teach you patience. Okay, I am zealous about 30 second recaps. I'm jealous about your ability to do 30 second recaps, but I'm hoping that information will encourage me to get better at my 30 second recaps. Let's not put pressure on my 30 second recaps, okay? Can you count me in, please?

I sure can. Are you ready to tell us all about what the seer overheard? Can't wait. Three, two, one, go.

So Harry is like, should I get my book back? And Hermione is like, the Half-Blood Prince is totally a woman. You need to chill out. Everybody is upset that he's dating Ginny, including Ron, and he's just so happy. And Snape is still punishing him. And then he's hanging out one night, and he gets a note from Dumbledore being like, come, we're going to go hunt a Horcrux. And on his way, he runs into Trelawney outside of the Room of Requirement, and Draco has kicked her out.

And because he's solved his thing and Harry finds out that Trelani, Snape knows about the prophecy. Okay. Okay. I think that's good. I think you set me up so I don't have to do that much work. It was a little bit out of order. The hunting of the horcruxes happens at the end, not in the middle. Okay. Are you ready, Jolie? Okay, I'm ready. On your mark, get set, go.

Go. Okay, so the hot goss in the Hogwarts streets is that Ginny and Harry are dating. And Ginny is a messy queen who lives for drama. And she's spreading rumors about Harry having a chest tattoo. And then Hermione is still thinking that the Half-Blood Prince could be a woman. And Harry is denying it because boo, girls drool, boys rule. And then he gets a note about having to go see Dumbledore. But he runs into Trine trying to hide Sherry. And she yells and talks about being a seer. And she says mean things about friends. And then he goes to Horcruxes. But he also finds out that Snape is the one who set the...

prophecy in motion. I also put Horcruxes in the middle. You know, we know it's coming. The note comes and we're like, this is obviously about a Horcrux. There's clearly something more important going on in this chapter and it's the hippogriff tattoo, not the Horcruxes.

So, Vanessa, I think I picked the theme of jealousy before we read this chapter. And I think it's really ironic that the chapter literally opens up with like everyone's super jealous of Harry and Ginny, especially the girls. Not sure why she had to emphasize that, but whatever, especially the girls. Oh my God. Wait, no, we have to pause. Rolling starts this chapter with...

In such a sexist manner. Everybody had a great interest, most of them girls. And then in just like a page, they look at a picture of this young woman, Eileen Prince. And the first thing that the book tells us is that she wasn't pretty. I'm like, okay, that's not how you talk about boys. We don't find out whether or not the kid who brings Harry the note is pretty or

This chapter is so sexist, but I'm sorry, please continue with your actual point. But yeah, I think the chapter opens up with like a literal sentence about how everyone is jealous about Harry and Ginny being together. And I

like this for two reasons. One, it means that I picked a good theme for today's episode. Good job. But two, I like it because it's such a high school thing. Like sometimes with everything that's going on with Harry, Ron and Hermione and Dumbledore and Voldemort,

It's hard to remember that these kids are just kids. And like I said earlier in my story, jealousy is a very normal emotion. Like you see people all coupled up. It's all nice outside and people are hanging out and holding hands and being cute. Like, and you're just inside, like studying for exams or in detention like Harry, but yeah.

It's okay to want what other people have. And Jenny points out in the chapter that like everyone is super focused on these two teenagers instead of like, dementia attacks and real things that are going on in the world. And while I think that is definitely a side effect of jealousy, you're not focused on your own life or your own things. I also just find it like, you know,

What a time to like be a child and just like the most important thing in your life is does Harry Potter have a hippogriff tattooed across his chest? Like those days fade very quickly, very quickly in this book, but definitely very quickly in life. And it's a moment of jealousy that I actually appreciated reading about. Yeah, it really struck me on reading this time that Harry and Ginny literally get one chapter. Yeah.

They get one chapter. They kiss at the end of 24. And then in 26,

Dumbledore is going to die. So they get... He doesn't even get to say goodbye to her. No. And that's it. And so this is just this moment of calm that you know they're going to look back on. The only thing I disagree on what you say is that I think even in times of emergency, we have time for petty jealousies. I have spent, you know...

sometime in my life in emergency mode. And I will still be like, man, I like those shoes, right? The nurse who helped take care of my dad when my dad was in a coma, I still remember her sneakers. And this was two years ago now. She had the cutest sneakers. And I was like, why don't I ever know where to buy cute sneakers?

fully obsessing about my dad's coma. And so I just, I love that about us, that it can be like war. And also you get to see Harry Potter's tattoo.

His nipples and everything. Why? Why you? Romilda Vane went through all the trouble of like making a love potion and possibly poisoning Ron. Just for Jenny to come out of nowhere. And like, she didn't even try. Yeah. Where's the effort? Where's the workmanship here?

that that also speaks to why jealousy is so natural is because the world I know you were joking and it yes but the world is unequal and unfair and so it's like I'm jealous that you just

have that thing that no matter how hard I work, I'm not going to have that thing. And so because inequity is just part of the human condition, there are always going to be things to covet. And we know that comparison is the thief of joy, but also like that person has the toy that I want and that I can't afford that.

It does suck. It does suck. I hope that Romilda finds what she wants. I hope you find some cute shoes. Vanessa Aldo has really cute shoes. I think I just like this entry point because, as you were saying, it just speaks to the normalcy of jealousy. And it speaks to the fact that no matter what is going on, there is still time and there's still space to be human. I want to ask a random question. Do you think it's possible to be jealous of yourself? Yeah.

Or is that just regret? Because we talked about how it's Harry and Ginny's last moment together. And I wonder if Harry ever looks back on these, the sunlit afternoon and is just like, dang, I really wish I could be that guy again instead of out here shoveling poison into Dumbledore's throat in the next chapter. Like, I bet you're wondering how I got here with this crash moment. Yeah.

Smash cut. But yeah, is it possible to feel jealousy of yourself or am I just overexpanding the definition of regret? No, I mean, I think that the two are so tied, right? We've all had this feeling where someone is reading your favorite book for the first time and you're like, I'm so jealous that you get to, you know, find out that plot twist for the first time. It was a highlight of my life.

And what you are is jealous of a past version of yourself. I think that's a wonderful reframe of something that we more typically think of as just like longing, right? Yeah. Longing for a time in which dot, dot, dot. Yeah. I know I've talked about this on the podcast before, but I...

I went to Shabbat dinner at my grandparents' house every Friday night. And then the Northridge earthquake was early on a Sunday morning. And we went back over that Sunday afternoon. My grandparents' house had been destroyed. And I was just like, oh, my God. Remember Friday night when I was here and like my cousins were annoying me? And like I'd do anything to swap with that feeling. Yeah. That's like longing for the past. But it's also, yeah, jealousy of your past self who didn't know better.

Yeah, it gives you information about what is important to you down the road. That past jealousy and even that present jealousy. Bringing back to Romilda for just a second, like, is Romilda jealous of Ginny for dating Harry? Or does she just want some companionship? Does she want a hand to hold as she's studying for her exams? Does she want someone's knees to lean up against while she's sitting in the common room? Like, does she really want all the drama that comes with dating Harry Potter? Yeah.

I doubt it. But yeah, it gives you information about what is important to you, like what you're looking for in a partner or what you're looking for in life. Jealousy helps you figure those things out. It doesn't always feel good at first, but there's something to be learned. Absolutely. Yeah.

Yeah. And if what Romilda is jealous of is the fact that it's the Harry Potter and therefore there's fame associated with it, right? It's like, well, let's investigate that, Romilda. Like, why do you want to be popular so much? Why is that important to you? And trying to break those things apart, right? Do you already have popularity? The book starts, we introduce Romilda with like her being surrounded by a bunch of giggling fourth years. Maybe you already have the thing you're seeking, right?

How can you pay better attention in your own life? Exactly. Appreciate the moment before your future self is longing for it, you know? Yep. That's one of my favorite lines in any TV show ever. It's at the end of The Office when Ed Helton says, I wish there was a way to know you were in the good old days when you were in them.

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the fun thing that happens in this chapter which is that the word that is our theme shows up in the chapter love when that happens love it

And it is when Trelawney is talking about forensic, right? She is obviously projecting, which is so interesting about this, right? She says that rumors have been bandied about by the jealous for years that she has not inherited the seer quality of her ancestors, which we happen to know she actually has. And yeah, there's this thing where when we are jealous of others, we accuse them of being jealous of us.

Oh, I wonder how that's going to come up in our every flavor bean conversation. But yeah. And I also this is where jealousy starts to turn from, you know, the innocent little thing in my earlier story. Like, oh, it's just information. This is when it starts to turn nasty. Right. It's like when it is revealing something about your character a little bit because she's very

rude about Forenze in her speaking about him in this moment, about him being jealous. She refers to him as the horse, the nag, anything but his name, anything but a child of God, which I found to be like really rude and problematic and bordering on creatureist possibly. And

And I just made up that word, but I think it fits in the context of this story. And yeah, it's all used as a way to disguise her own insecurities about no longer being in the position as the sole divination teacher at Hogwarts and also recognizing possibly that he may have skills that she may be jealous of.

that she can't wrap her head around and appreciate. And I think that leads her to some pretty self-destructive behavior because she's not listening to her jealousy. She's not accepting it. She's not accepting the things that she wants. That's when her jealousy turns into denial and anger and rudeness. And it was hard to read and read.

sad to see. And also knowing that that also exists in our real lives when we project our own feelings onto others. Yeah. And what this really is, is just a belief in a finite amount of attention, right? Like I'm always curious when people are capable of a mentality of a rising tide lifts all boats versus there can only be one of us. Stephanie Paulsell,

who I love very much. She and another woman wrote very similar books about Virginia Woolf and her religious life right around the same time. And I was like, oh man, do we hate her? And she was like, no, I reached out to her and we've now become friends.

And when I was in England next, she was like, you should meet up with her and have tea with her. She's fantastic. And just like, I know so many academics who would be like, oh my God, you beat me to it. Or like be looking at exact publication dates to see whose came out first or whose is better. And instead these two women were like, wow, we have similar interests. We should probably be friends. And now like present at conferences together. And the scholarship around research

Virginia Woolf and religion is improved by this and both of their careers are improved by this. And I think that so often that move is possible to make where Kehlani could be approaching frenzy and be like, oh my God, our department just doubled in size.

Like, let's write a curriculum together and be building off of each other. And so often I think that the information of jealousy can be, oh, maybe this is exactly the person who I should be reaching out to. Yeah, I agree. And I'll give

Trelawney a little bit of grace in this moment because she does speak about how she tried to approach Ferenze with the tarot cards about, like, the lightning struck tower and that he laughed in her face. Which, you know, I can't expect someone who's been treating me pretty rudely to, like, just want to talk to me and I'm not just gonna... I'll probably laugh in your face, too. Like...

Who do you think you are? Like, get away from me. But I'll give her a little bit, Grayson. Like, you know, there was an attempt to stage some kind of a conversation. But I think you make such a good point, Vanessa, about we're...

oftentimes better together than we are trying to move on our own. Like you've actually given me that advice in our personal conversations that like collaboration helps you go very far. And it's something that has stayed with me. Like you can be jealous of someone and wish you had what they had, or you can join them in both move toward what you want together. I think that's

It's always just a decision that we make and we can always make new decisions down the road. We don't have to be like Trelawney in this instance. Speaking of Trelawney, she feels like everyone is just hating on her. There's a lot of hateration and holleration in her dancery.

Only is Firenze just coming for her life, coming for her job. But it's not the first time someone has been super jealous of her demure professionalism and her ability to see and try to come for her job. I'm talking about young Severus Snape, who had the nerve, the nerve, the gall to barge in on her perfect girlfriend.

interview and conversation with the Albus Dumbledore. And because Trelawney is just so perfect and handled herself so well, that's the reason Dumbledore hired her right away. Because, you know, everyone else is just hating and, you know, there's nothing wrong with her. God. And part of what is so interesting is that

Snape is jealous, right? Like she's not wrong. He's just jealous of James and Sirius, not of Trelawney. And she's also right that he's lurking outside of her interview and using that information for bad reasons. It's just, it shows how partial information can be really dangerous. Yeah, absolutely. And I think Snape's

This doesn't actually happen in chapter or even in the book as we see, but we know because Snape has jealousy over Sirius, James, and Lupin. That's what influenced his decision to join the Death Eaters. Like, not one-to-one, but it was a through line because we never got over those feelings of everyone else has what I don't have and...

this is the only way in which I can develop some sense of power and control over my own life. Again, that's when jealousy starts to turn nasty. That's when we're not taking the information that we need away from it and we're allowing it to consume us and take over our entire lives, our entire being, become our entire personality. And it leads Snape to lurking at a doorway and doing something that he ultimately comes to regret, which Dumbledore speaks to Harry about later on in the chapter, but not...

you had your moment, Dumbledore. You had your chance. I know. You could have told him. I don't think Harry would have believed him anyway. I actually, I know on this reading, I have more sympathy for Dumbledore than before. But yeah, I think that spending a minute on that point

is really important because I think that jealousy when misapplied can be deeply dangerous, right? Like this is where violence occurs. This is what leads to supremacy. And what it is, is jealousy in the mental space of a scarcity mindset. If Ramil Devane thinks of Harry as a,

the asset, then yes, it is scarce. There's only one Harry. But if she thinks of adoration and love and connection as the thing, then there's actually an infinite amount of that. And then, right, like there are moments of true scarcity when it comes to a certain job. But if, right, and so I absolutely think there are moments where jealousy is a completely reasonable place

To stop because there is inequality and there are things that are scarce. And I think that we do that to ourselves with much more frequency than is actually true. And I think patriarchy and white supremacy, right, that is based on a belief that things are scarce that aren't true.

Nobody's freedom is being taken away by another person being made more free. In fact, it's the opposite, right? I think it's also based on this belief that things should be in your control that are not in your control. Like I'm thinking of the incel movement and like how those are men and women in some instances who are jealous or feeling as if they deserve a certain type of sexual companionship that they don't get anything.

And like that, that's something that should be in their control. It's something that they should be able to just produce out of life. Life doesn't always work in a way that we get everything that we want. And it's easy to see other people getting things that we want and feeling a way about it. But also when we accept that, you know, sometimes I'm not going to get what I want. As you were saying before, sometimes I'm not going to get that job.

that I want. Sometimes I'm not going to get certain things that maybe I do need, but I can't have because of the way the system of patriarchy and white supremacist capitalism is set up. But sometimes I'm just not going to get things when I want them, you know? And it doesn't necessarily mean that wanting them is a bad thing. But when we get into the space of like,

entitlement and this feeling of like, I deserve this. I should have control over this. That's when we start to breed envy and that envy starts to blossom into the society that we live in now of white supremacist, patriarchal capitalism. However, Bell Hooks said it. She had like such a concise sentence for it.

But yeah, it's all interconnected. But there are ways to stop it in its tracks. One is creating a more equal and just society. That's the most important one, though, right? It's like when we feel jealous about the specific job...

Am I taking it out on you who gets the job? Or am I taking it out on like, oh, why are the resources so finite? Why were you more willing to hire this intern who you can exploit and not pay versus me with the skills who could do this work but demands proper compensation for it? You know, it's I'm not going to take it out on the individual who receives the thing I want. I'm not going to take it out on Jenny because she's dating Harry. I'm going to take it out on the fact that Paco

the guys at Hogwarts suck. Right. And I'm not going to join the Death Eaters because I'm jealous of James and Lily. I'm going to grieve my feelings about Lily and hopefully go find someone else. Right. Like I'm going to observe life around me. How many girls were actually checking for Severus Snape? You know, there may have been somebody. I don't know. There are a lot of people.

We have to just mention at least briefly another form of jealousy that pops up at the beginning of this chapter, which is we have to take a leap to get there. But I really do think that it's about jealousy. I don't even think it's a leap. I think it's a little hot. Yeah.

No, that's fair. It is just a hop. It just gets presented in a sneaky way, which is Hermione comes to Harry and is like, I really want to figure out who the Half-Blood Prince is. And she and Harry get into this fight they've gotten into before about whether it is possible that the Half-Blood Prince, even though they are called Prince, could be a woman. And Hermione is bandying forth this theory that it could be a young woman with the last name Prince.

which is a completely reasonable point of view. I agree. And that like we take on different gender coding ways to talk all the time. Yeah. Harry and Hermione both feel like there are a lot of stakes in this.

They really do feel like, no, I need to be able to see myself in this excellent person. And so I want this person to have something in common with me in order for me to feel like I could be included in it.

I think that those are the stakes, but Ron says it so well, right? Ron is like, no, no, this is about jealousy. This is about Harry doing better in potions than you. Yeah, he says, she's just never got over you outperforming her in potions. She is just...

used to being the best and can't deal with it. And can it be both? I think sometimes we can be jealous of someone, but also think they're doing something that is harmful, you know, or that they're doing something that maybe you shouldn't do. Or I can love you and be jealous of you at the same time. I can have concern for you and also still want what's going on in that little life of yours, you know? And yeah, I think in this situation, Hermione could

be both. I think Hermione is trying to challenge her friend's inherent sexism a little bit. And she's also like trying to get him to see that like something isn't all that it seems about this half-blood prince character. I want you to think deeper about this. I want you to care about it as much as I care about it.

Yes, and that we should have expansive ideas of the identities of who people are and that this is just like more generally why diversity is important so that people can see themselves in success.

Yeah. And that Harry, like without this book, you wouldn't be outperforming me at potion. Yes, it is. It's not fair. Except that I love how complicated this is, though, because Harry does offer to share the book with Hermione.

And she's like, no, I'm going to do it the legit way. How often do we set ourselves up for our own suffering just to be like, right, just to do things like the right way? And I wonder how like the haughtiness that's involved in that, like you want other people to be like a little jealous of you, maybe of like, look at me. I did it the hard way and I still got a good grade. I still I'm still getting praise for it. Like, look, look at me, validate me, praise me.

Nothing's wrong with that either. You know, it's just, again, how far are we going to get that validation, to ease those feelings within ourselves? That's the question that we should always be asking ourselves as we move through life as humans who interact with other humans. Casper's just going to ask for it. And I think that's the best way. Me too. It's going to be like, I need compliments every day. I'm like, do you know what? I can do that. Morning, noon and night. I think nice things about you every day. Why don't I say them?

Jolie, we are going to do the sacred reading practice of Florilegia in which you and I both brought a sentence that sparkled up at us from the chapter. And we're going to put those sentences in conversation with one another. Yay. What sentence did you bring, please? Harry says the following sentence. Right, Harry said, glancing down at the sherry bottles, but you couldn't get in and hide them. Ooh, okay. First context, please remind us where this is from.

Yes, he has just ran into Trelawney outside the room requirement after she was unceremoniously booted out by a whooping Malfoy, even though we cannot confirm his Malfoy yet. But Harry is right. And everyone's just jealous of him being right. And she was explaining to him how she was looking for a place to, you know, store her sherry bottles because there's nasty rumors about. And she was trying to get into the room and Harry interrupts her. It's like, right, but you couldn't get in and hide them as he says.

observes her sharing bottles completely, you know, blandly. He's just looking around. Yep. It's not his concern.

What about the sparkled up at you? Why do you like this sentence? What sparkled up about it for me was the word hide. Like, there's so many things that are trying to be hidden. One, in the room requirement, like in general, but also with Professor Trelawney. She's not just trying to hide the sherry bottles. She's trying to hide her dependency on them a bit. She's trying to, you know, hide away also from the students and rumors and things like that.

Like, I'm sure that's not her first time using the rumor requirement. And she comes to find that someone else is already hiding in there. There's a lot of things hidden in this sentence. And I think jealousy is something that feels hidden within ourselves all the time. We don't always want to admit it. Sometimes we don't know. Sometimes we don't take the time to observe of like,

oh, I'm actually just jealous. Like, why don't I like hanging out with my friend and their new partner? Like, I'm actually just jealous. And I just thought I just didn't like the shoes he wore. But, you know, could be anything. But yeah, I like the term hide here. Yeah. And this is a moment where Harry is the one who uses the word hide. Trelawney doesn't use it first. And so this...

I'm gonna just articulate what's actually happening here. Harry doesn't have time to waste. He has to meet Dumbledore. Well, and I love...

love that I love when people are like I'm gonna say the thing that's actually going on I'm someone who can really lose a grasp of reality quickly and so I feel like I need to be like I don't know why we're not talking about what's actually going on so I'm just gonna say you're hiding them is that right you're hiding them I can only help you if I know what's happening

And he phrases it as a question. He's like, right. But you know, you couldn't get into either of them. Is that what's going on here? And so, yeah, this like listening to what someone else is saying and maybe saying it in a clearer way, I think is...

Actually, it's a communication strategy that I use in my life. Whether or not it is always appreciated is a different thing. But it is always effective. It's always effective for my sanity. I don't know if it's effective with communication. Yeah.

So I picked a line that Dumbledore says, and he says it to Harry. He says, I mean, you must follow even such orders as run and hide. They are going to go hunt a horcrux.

And he's like, Harry, do you want to come with me? And Harry is like, yes, I'm mad at the world. I would really appreciate doing something reckless right now. Which so relate. And so he's a little hyped up. And Dumbledore knows that Harry is someone who is fearless to a fault and who will run headlong into things. And he thinks it's important that Harry come with him and see what it's like to hunt a horcrux.

And yet I love this line because Dumbledore is being the adult, right? And is reminding Harry, like, I'm going to need to protect you. Yeah. And I like, I need you to promise that when I try to protect you, you are going to let me protect you. And he knows that this is something specifically that Harry needs.

needs to hear and we're gonna see this little bit of conversation help keep them alive through the next chapter right that Harry is gonna listen to Dumbledore even when it's really painful and

And I think that it's often hard to live up to the things people ask you to do that you agree to ahead of time. Right. But that is really important to write. This is my favorite sentence from Jane Eyre. Laws and principles are for moments like this when our body and soul rises in mutiny against them. And Dumbledore is saying, like, your body and soul is going to rise in mutiny against me, right?

telling you to go run and hide and I'm telling you now I need you to commit to this principle and follow it even when that's the case. His body and soul is already rising in mutiny. Like, when he gets into the office, he's fighting everything, not the smash things. And like, again, like, Dumbledore, that's not the first time he's smashed up his office. Nope. Not the first time in the last 12 months. It really isn't. Nope. It's not going to be the last time either. Nope. Let's put these two sentences together, shall we? Okay.

Right, Harry said, glancing down at the sherry bottles, but you couldn't get in and hide from them. I mean, you must follow even such orders as run and hide. Oh, fascinating. Yeah, I didn't realize the sentence you picked before you read it, so I really liked how hide was involved with the sentence itself.

It's like you couldn't get in a hide, but you got to try again. Like you must follow the orders of run and hide. Like whatever is telling you that you have to hide. Oh, this just made me so sad.

Oh, gosh, whatever is telling you that you must hide, like you must be ashamed of it. Like it's like telling you have to hide something about yourself. You have to run away. You can't be perceived. You can't present your whole self. Oh, that was upsetting. Oh, and sometimes that's true. Right. That we live in a broken world and you're scared and feel the need to hide.

And actually the safest thing that you can do is to mask. Yeah, you have to. Oh, can you just think about the times when you're just trying to get through a day and like there's so much going on in like your life. And like you're just like, I just got to get through this meeting. I got to get through this day. I got to get through this traffic. No one can know what's going on. Eventually I'll be able to get home and I'll be able to just relax.

let it all out. You know what I mean? And it's just that feeling, that weight, that gnawing inside your body is very intense. Oh, that sentence made me so upset. I actually like, I feel like I got hit in the face. There's something, I had a physical reaction. Well, let's try it the other way. Maybe it gets better.

I don't know, though. I'm going to read it. I mean, you must follow even such orders as run and hide. Right, Harry said, glancing down at the sherry bottles. But you couldn't get in and hide them? Hmm. This is more of a conversation for sure. Like, Harry's responding. It feels passive aggressive. Yeah. Like, I told you that you have to follow orders like run and hide. And you couldn't figure it out? You just couldn't?

Sounds like you wouldn't. Sounds like a you problem. Yeah. This is like, I told you to clear the table and there are still dirty napkins. Do those not count? Do those not count? The sentence is just like, you're not trying hard enough and I need you to try harder. I need you to follow instructions a little bit. And it's funny because I think in my sentence, that's kind of,

Harry is very sassy in this book. And like that kind of feeds into sassy Harry a little bit where he's just like, right. Like, did you really did you really try? I mean, you couldn't. There's a part that was going to be the sentence I picked where he was like, you couldn't see that coming. This kind of like gives that same energy. Yeah. Told you to do that. But you didn't. Like, did you even try? Like, what's going on here? OK, I like that one. Yeah.

We did. We ended on an up note on a little bit of passive aggressive sass. Really? Really, Joey? Really? You didn't even try? Like you didn't even have those feelings? No, I can't. I'm very emotional. Well, thank you for doing this sacred reading practice. Thank you, Vanessa. I'm going to think about this a lot more throughout my day. I'm sorry and you're welcome.

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Hey, everybody. I'm Jen. I'm Jess. And we're Fat Mascara, the only beauty podcast you need in your life. We're beauty editors by day and podcasters by night. And we've got all the industry gossip for you, like insider product reviews and advice you're not going to find online. And the best part is interviews with the most sought-after experts in the beauty biz. Charlotte Tilbury. Jen Atkin. And makeup artist Sir John. That's just a taste of what you're going to get on the Fat Mascara podcast. So come hang with us. New episodes drop every Tuesday and Thursday.

ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. ACAST.com. This week's voicemail is from Chris. Hi, Harry Potter and the Sacred Text team. My name is Chris. I'm from Richmond, Virginia, USA. He, him pronouns. And I am so thankful for the work that you all are doing and teaching the way we can use all literature as sacred text. Um...

I'm reading book five with my nine-year-old daughter for the first time and listening to your second round of podcasts. And it struck me when we got to the part on the new Sorting Hat song that I

There is some student who ended up in Slytherin who might have been somewhere else had Harry not talked his way into Gryffindor. Like, what if Crabbe or Goyle was actually a Hufflepuff and a Hufflepuff student needed the confidence boost that would have come from being told they're brave and should be in Gryffindor?

And just the way that systems will put people in places where it's not the best place for them. And so I want to bless whatever that unknown male student in Harry's year was who might have been a fish out of water and fell in with the wrong crowd.

My wife and I have two amazing daughters we're raising and now have a three month old son for the first time. And, you know, I start to worry about what it's going to be like to raise a boy who might fall in with a crowd of Draco Malfoys when really he just wants to be a gentle soul.

So let's, I just want to raise up and bless all those kids and people who found themselves hurt by a system that put themselves where they're not supposed to be. And so that somebody else could have the advantage that maybe they could have had. And hopefully we can do better as the sorting hat puts everyone into a house that helps them in the real world. Thank you again. Bye.

Wow. Abolish houses. Oh, my God. I've been saying that for years. Abolish the housing system. Pharrell, that was such a thoughtful voicemail, Chris. I totally agree with you. I haven't thought about it as like Harry took someone else's place before. It didn't occur to me in all my readings of this book that, yeah, the sorting hat places boys and girls in a very specific number into each house. And yeah, what a crab and gall just wanted to...

be Hufflepuffs and hang out in the kitchens all day because Hufflepuff stereotypes. I think what this speaks to more is like the categorizing of people at such a young age and telling them who they should be versus observing who they could be and not recognizing that Hogwarts as a school needs all of these different types of personalities and students and that they shouldn't be

assigned to one place where they have to be and have to behave a certain way, they should be able to explore all that the different founders had to offer. I always tell people that I am a Gryffindor sun, a Slytherin rising with a Ravenclaw moon. And I exhibit all the different characteristics of all the houses. And I think if those students had more freedom to explore the different characteristics, maybe Draco Malfoy wouldn't have even been the Draco Malfoy that we know today.

So I think the solution to this quandary is just freedom, giving kids the freedom to explore themselves and become not who we tell them they have to be, but who they are, you know, who they're going to be and allowing that to change, you know? Yeah. Bad pedagogy at Hogwarts. For the win, as usual. Thank you so much, Chris. So Jolie, we now get to offer blessings of our own. Who would you like to bless?

I would like to bless Forenze. He doesn't necessarily appear in this chapter, but he's mentioned quite a bit. And I just want to send a blessing out for everyone who works really hard, but have to deal with just powers that may deem you to be unqualified or undeserving of your spot as if you've taken someone else's spot. And specifically speaking to students and workers of color and women who just are

are constantly looked down upon as not being deserving of their space. You are smart, you are intelligent, you are skilled, and you deserve to be in every room you walk into. You deserve to have a seat at every table that you sit at. And while people may be naysayers of you and may even try to demean you in private or behind your back,

just stand tall and know that you deserve to be here. And also a real quick blessing for Jimmy Peaks. Like I know I mentioned you earlier, but I just, I want you to know that you're worth way more than being somebody's messenger boy. Not what you're here for. You also deserve a seat at the table. I am going to bless Dumbledore. I really feel him in this chapter. Um,

Trying to teach Harry as much as possible on a limited timeline. I think his lack of communication is going to frustrate me until the day I die. But in this chapter, I actually do think he's trying. He says explicitly, you're not a good Occlumens. Like he doesn't want to tell Harry certain things because he doesn't want Voldemort to see like, hey, Snape's a double agent. Yeah. But he's like, please believe me. Snape is on our side. Yeah.

And he is just trying so desperately to mind meld with Harry. And I think we've all had those moments where, you know, a friend is insecure and you're like, please believe me, you are wonderful. Or like you want to tell your kid, like, please believe me, this thing is going to keep you safer. Yeah. And we just can't get through. And I really see Dumbledore.

being stuck and trying so hard in this moment. And so I just want to call attention to it because I know I'm going to forget and in book seven be real frustrated again with the lack of information. But I really do see him trying in this chapter. And so communication is hard. And I just want to bless all of us who are doing our best to communicate. I love that. Next week, we're reading book six, chapter 26, The Cave with Caspar Turk Kyle through the theme of fear.

Just a few reminders before we give our thanks. We have spots available for a Mary Oliver trip, an Anna Green Gable trip, and a Remains of the Day trip. You can find out more about all of those at readingandwalkingwith.com. And you can always get ad-free episodes through Apple Podcasts or through our Patreon. This was a Not Sorry production. We are a feminist production company. We're sponsored by the Fetzer Institute.

I'm the executive producer and we are edited and produced by AJ Aramas. Our music is by Ivan Paisao and Nick Bull and we are distributed by ACAST. Thanks to Chris for their voicemail this week, to Ariana Nettleman, Julia Argi, Nikki Zoltan, Courtney Brown, Casper Turquille, Matt Potts, Anissa Ahmed, Danny Langley, and Stephanie Paulsell. Thank you. And a huge special thanks to Jolie Doggett. Thanks, Jolie.

She feels like everyone is just hating on her. There's a lot of hateration and holleration in her dancery. That song has been stuck in my head for two days. I'm so sorry. That happens to me all the time where I'm like, oh, somebody said a turn of phrase. I now live like this. I live here now.