Progress: The Will of Albus Dumbledore (Book 7, Chapter 7)
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Chapter 7. The Will of Albus Dumbledore. He was walking along a mountain road in the cool blue light of dawn. Far below, swathed in mist, was the shadow of a small town. I'm Caspar Ter-Kyle. And I'm Vanessa Zoltan. And this is Harry Potter and the Sacred Text.

So Casper, quick announcements. Send in a voicemail, blessing for a character. This is your last chance to leave a voicemail, guys. You can give us compliments, but you can also be like, do you know who you all did not bless enough? Dobby. And leave us a blessing. You guys never talked about him and he's a major character. This is your chance to leave final blessings for characters. So do it. Okay. Second.

Everyone should check out our new podcast, Let's Ask Taylor Swift, because it's really good. And I'm seeing Casper of close reading text. Huh. Time. And I go and I'm like, I hate this song. And then I'm like, oh, this song's really smart. I learned a lot.

Go over there and listen to that. You can get ad-free episodes on Apple Podcasts and Patreon. And then our other announcement is that our Patreon bonus episode, Every Flavored Bean Conversation, is inspired by...

by this chapter. Casper, do you want to tell the people what we will be talking about for our bean? We are going to talk about something specific you want to leave someone in your will or something that you really want in someone else's will. Oh! And this could be the way... The diamond necklace. Exactly. I want those... The deed to that house that you own. Exactly. Yeah.

So we'll be talking about wills, which is, you know, very apropos of this week's chapter. I'm leaving everything to Rory.

Well, this week we have a guest story from my dear friend, Hannah Tomasuoze, who I was a youth climate activist with about 15 years ago. And Hannah and I have stayed friends ever since. And she is the author of a fabulous debut novel, which has just come out called Who Wants to Live Forever? And I'm so excited that Hannah and Vanessa connected as she shares a story on the theme of progress.

Hannah, can you just tell people a little bit about your novel before you tell the story? Yes, absolutely. Yeah, thanks for having me on. I'm such a fan of this podcast. The novel's called Who Wants to Live Forever? And it's just come out at the end of March. And it's a speculative novel in the same tradition of books like Station Eleven or Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow that I love. Two of my favorite books.

Yeah, me too. Me too. And it centers on a couple called Sam and Yuki who live in London and they're in their mid to late 30s and they're at a crossroads and they're wondering what comes next in their lives. They've tried to have a kid and they failed and they're wondering whether to move to a town by the sea or

There are all these questions. And at the same time, a drug comes onto the market that can extend the human lifespan. And one of them decides to take it and one of them doesn't. And then the novel tracks the fallout of that decision over the next 20 years. And it bounces from London to California to Tokyo. And yeah, considers all of these questions about how much time we need to make a good life. What story do you have for us on the theme of progress?

Yeah, well, when I was thinking about, yeah, about this theme of time and how much we think we're supposed to achieve in the years that we're given, this theme of progress came to me and it made me think of a time nearly 10 years ago in February 2016.

I was heartbroken after a four-year relationship had broken down. I was 32 then and I'd hoped for a really long and happy life together with my then boyfriend and I'd envisioned marriage and kids and all the traditional milestones that I'd seen many of my friends already embark on. Now I'm 41 and 32 just seems ludicrously young.

But at the time, I had this thought that looped around my head. I was just like, I'm the same age as Bridget Jones. I'm the same age as Bridget Jones. And even though I love Bridget, I didn't want to be as hapless as I thought she was at the time when it came to love and building a life that she wanted.

But yeah, I was there. I was alone in the home that we'd shared and I felt that I'd completely stalled out. I didn't know what came next. So I moved out and slowly I felt my energy just start to come back and all the energy that I'd been putting into that failing relationship, I could just suddenly pour into myself. So I decided to cycle to Paris from London on a charity bike ride and

And I learned how to play the drums and I joined a band and I traveled to the States for a training and I met some amazing people that I still count as friends. And then in the summer, surfing on this like new big wave of energy, I launched a campaign in response to the Brexit vote that happened here in the UK. And that tracked racist and xenophobic instances of street harassment. And that campaign got a lot of attention.

And by the autumn, I'd bought my first flat on my own. And so by October, I was on my own in this new flat. And I sat on the floor surrounded by all of these unpacked boxes. I had a plate of fish and chips from the shop down the road.

And it had been eight months since this really momentous breakup. And I had to admit that even though my life hadn't followed the traditional milestones I'd envisioned, I had made considerable progress on my life's path. And it wasn't in the direction I'd planned, but it was far and it was fast.

And, yeah, at 41, I still haven't hit those traditional milestones. I'm not married. I don't have kids. But I continue to make progress in ways I could never have dreamed at that time. I'm in the same flat that I bought nearly 10 years ago, and it was here that I wrote the novel that was published last month, Who Wants to Live Forever? And I don't think I ever would have written it had I not suffered through that heartbreak and learned to let go of what I thought as legitimate progress. Yeah. Yeah.

Wow. I resonate with that so much. I also had a major breakup right around when I was 30 and I'm now 42 and I've had a book come out that I'm not sure would have come out, right? Yeah. I just keep questioning why the traditional milestones are the traditional milestones, right? And who they serve and who they don't, who they are designed to serve and who they keep out of them. And

I'm wondering if this is true for you too, but like not only does it feel like I'm progressing in a way that feels authentic to me, it feels like I am

away from a kind of brainwashing of like these were the traditional milestones that I was supposed to hit, which actually opens up so many other things for me. Totally. And, you know, I, yeah, I've been thinking about this a lot, sort of being asked questions about the novel. I think of the novel as a very like millennial novel in that there's quite a lot of stuff in there about like

our relationship to potential and work and milestones and all of that. As an elder millennial, I feel like I was really schooled in a particular way.

And I've got a lot of that internalized sort of capitalist machinery inside of me. And, you know, progress in so many ways requires a sort of regression, you know, to unlearn all of that stuff before you can build it back up. And that often doesn't seem like progress. You can be like, wait, what's happening? I'm completely regressing. Like, I'm not doing much or I'm...

I'm just unraveling that, yeah, it's like when you're literally knitting, you have to undo all the stuff that came before in order to make the next better thing. So I think it's hard in the moment to recognize that we're making progress all the time. And it's only in hindsight that you can see the many steps that added up to the distance you've traveled. Yeah. And I feel like that's such an important reframe. On the podcast right now, we're really trying to figure out

how we want to be in the world given politically what's going on in the United States, what our responsibilities are politically without driving ourselves completely up the wall and into despair. And, you know, given your work with Brexit, right, it just, it feels like we're in the middle of a huge cultural regression. And so how do we make sure to, right, like not make the best of it, but like really use that to be positive

progressing on our own. And I mean, already, I just feel like there are really beautiful acts of resistance happening in the United States, but feels like we are walking uphill with the wind at our front, right? Like, there's just so much. Totally. Yeah. And it's painful to be in a moment where it feels like, you know, the very best we can do is protect what we had, which doesn't feel like progress at all, you know? And it does feel like

When you feel that stasis is the best option, it's depressing and it's easy to go into despair. And I think in those moments, what I find the most helpful is sort of like, you know, even though it might not help us in that particular moment, but zooming out and thinking about like the 200 year timeline, for example, it's like, well, it might not look like progress forever.

in the next six months or the next year or the next two years but what can we do now in service of that much longer time frame and that to me anyway helps me think a bit differently about it. Yeah.

Well, Hannah, thank you so much for coming on and for writing this book with these just really important themes. Thank you. In addition to your novel, Who Wants to Live Forever, where else can people find you? Yeah, I have a newsletter on Substack and that is just my name, Hannah, H-A-N-N-A, Thomas, and then U-O-S-E, U-O-S-E. And I also have a website, hannathomasuose.com. So you can find me there. Wonderful.

Thank you so much, Hannah. I hope to talk to you soon. Thanks. What a lovely conversation, Vanessa. And I'm always so happy to hear Hannah's voice. It feels like talking to a friend across the phone. But I really appreciate what she's saying about, you know, when you're older and you're looking back at your younger self and you're like, wow, like how much pressure I felt in that moment versus what I know has happened since, you know, just the perspective of age.

and how that notion of progress can feel so different once you're a few years out of it. And so it's actually making me think about Harry and the trio in this chapter and the way in which they feel this intense urgency of the mission that they've been given versus not that Albus Dumbledore didn't feel that mission and didn't feel the urgency, but I'm curious if he, with the kind of historical perspective he has with his great age,

sees this battle between good and evil as an endless one. And this is just the latest incarnation of it, right? That it's Voldemort. But once Voldemort is gone, there'll be someone else. And I'd never thought about that kind of arrow versus circle idea of progress before.

in the context of this particular mission that the trio has. Yeah. But first, Vanessa, before we dive into the chapter, let's remind ourselves what happens. Would you like to put 30 seconds on your clock? Yeah, I'm ready. Here we go. Three, two, one, go. Oh my God, Harry's 17. He's lost the trace. Accio glasses, pokes himself in the eye. Ron is like, here's a book about how to trick girls into liking you. And Harry's like, cool, thanks. And Ginny's like, I didn't know what to get you. Here's a smooch.

And then there's the party. And then Scrimgeour comes and is like, Hermione, you get this book. Ron, you get a deluminator. Harry, you get a snitch. And everybody's like, what is this? And also the Sword of Gryffindor, but they don't have it. Also, Hermione's like, lawyer joke, rude. And then a big cake comes out. And happy birthday, Harry. Definitely forgot something. That was really good. Hey, Casper.

Are you ready? All right, let's do it. On your mark, get set, go. Harry, first of all, in his dreams is seeing visions of Voldemort and it's like, oh, he's in a strange country. He's like one of those geography people on YouTube who look at one image and are like, it's Honduras. Yeah.

But in his dreams. Then we see Harry having more dreams while he's making out with Ginny being like, I'll have babies. I'll get married. He's having the Hannah vision of like his life's progress. And then he gets rudely interrupted by Ron and is like very resentful of that. And then there's a party. The end. Nailed it.

Vanessa, I want to start in the chapter where we really do see a clear moment of progress, which is it's Harry's birthday, right? Like, yes, progress is complicated. Yes, it's imaginary sometimes. It's like a story we tell ourselves. But here is a real situation where like,

He was 16 and now he is 17. And that comes with like very concrete changes in that the trace is gone. He's allowed to legally use magic wherever he is. You know, it's not just within the bounds of Hogwarts. And he immediately is like, ha ha, let me summon my glasses. And it's just like excited to access this new form.

Right.

Yeah, we're all living and we're all dying at the same time, right? Like that, that is just moving. Time is moving and we are in it. So I do think it's helpful to point to a place in the chapter where we do see that kind of really concrete change. How do you see the birthday shifting dynamics changing?

within the trio, within the Weasley family, like what's going on for you in this chapter? Yeah. First of all, I love your point that sometimes progress is imaginary and sometimes it's material, right? Like I think you saw it before I did. Ellen, my 17 year old, just got her driver's license and she literally has a driver's license, right? Like there's a thing and she's now just like allowed to drive. And the day before she wasn't allowed to drive. And then one day she was old enough and could drive. And legally, right? Like something happens where we decide. And that, yeah,

it's arbitrary and it's not. It is actually interesting just to interrupt you a little bit. The arbitrariness of it is true, right? Like, right. Like,

Like it's materially true that there's a difference and then it is arbitrary that we decide that on the day someone's 16 they are... Totally. And also like, are you able to drive the first time you make a vehicle move or are you able to drive when you're able to like navigate certain situations on the road? Because there are plenty of people who have a license that are not good drivers. Right.

right? So like the recognition of the progress is different from the progress itself. And in some ways it feels like Harry's magical skill is well-established. Like he's already fought the dark Lord, however many number of times. It's just now that he's legally allowed to do it outside of the purview of school. So there's an interesting difference between the progress itself and the markers of progress in some way. Absolutely. And I think that

You know, we see that in this country, right? The right to vote was changed to 18, I believe, during the Vietnam War because people were like, you're going to let me fight for my country, but not vote for who sends me. And yet we still conscript people to fight for our country and don't let them have a beer the night before they ship out. So, right. Like these things are totally arbitrary and yet materially in terms of how the law sees you and, you

you know, whether or not somebody would show up on their doorstep, like there is progress. But also, so true. I do think that these created, like materialized markers of sort of arbitrary progress do actually cause progress. Hmm.

And like materially also with Harry, like he's going to get better at Accio now because he's going to get to practice more. Like he is a really good trained wizard, but also he hasn't been allowed to practice a lot. And so now he's going to progress more because he's allowed. Maybe he can practice some different charms so he's not immediately recognizable. Watch this space.

Here's a moment that I think is really interesting around Harry's birthday, which is Ginny's birthday present. So Ginny is like, couldn't get you anything. Gonna give you this kiss. I know. So cute and sexy. Gonna pull you into this room. I'm your present. What? And...

Ron walks in and he is really mad at Harry and I actually think Harry does a bad job standing up for himself The correct answer is this is none of your business. Your sister is her own person and she was deciding to kiss me, but whatever Ron's point is

I think that Jenny was making progress about you guys breaking up. Right? Like she was really cut up about it. Yeah. And she's fine now. And now you're going to cause her to regress like it by dragging her along. And that's not what's happening, but it is true and not true that time heals things. Things do sting less the further you get from them. And we know that grief comes in waves, right?

And like, Ginny doesn't need to be kissing Harry. Harry's already in the house. She's probably already like having a lot of feelings. She's at a wedding with her ex-boyfriend on the eve of when he's about to go off and fight in a war. I don't think that kiss is the thing that's causing her potentially to regress here. But that we see things as linear. I mean, we know this. We have expressions for it. It's often two steps forward, one step back. Yeah.

And then sometimes it can really feel like two steps forward, three steps back. And you just got to count on the fact that eventually you'll be making that progress. Yeah. It's also so interesting to me that she's the one who, who really learns what their mission is. Right. Like she gets the information about this kind of certain death mission to hunt the Horcruxes. Like she doesn't know the details, but she knows it's about destroying Voldemort. And so this kiss is both, I had such a,

tender thing because there's a kind of hopelessness to the kiss. Like it's, it's not the promise of like return to me and we're going to build a beautiful life together. It's like, I want to have done this. Like I, for you and for me and like, I don't know what's coming. I don't know. There's something. It's goodbye. Goodbye.

It's goodbye. Actually, that's what it is. That's what it is. And so in some ways, there is no progress in their story, right? Like that's what Harry's feeling at least. Like he's seeing all of these things of, wow, a wedding and maybe kids. And like none of that is going to happen for me because I...

I don't get to live that life. And so in some ways the kisses side, yeah, as you say, it's like a moment of recognizing that progress is not going to happen for them. Now, of course, we know a beautiful postscript, but they don't know that right now. It feels like the end. Yeah. And just that moment where Harry is like,

I mean, Harry is just like, I'm going to die doing this. I don't get this life. Right. Yeah. He really knows what he's walking into. And it's, I don't know, it's gross and heartbreaking. Yeah.

Well, the final addendum on that for me is compare it with Voldemort because Voldemort is constantly, right? He's trying to run from death. Like he's trying to progress further and further away from that encounter. So we often talk at the end of book seven about Harry's acceptance. And actually you're already seeing it here too. Like he's constantly in this place of like practicing the acceptance of death of the finality of an ending, which Voldemort is constantly running away from.

Vanessa, talk to me about Ron and the Manosphere, because Ron's gift to Harry is this book, which is essentially a sort of pickup artist book. It's called 12 Fail-Safe Ways to Charm Witches, and he has learnt that

how to give a compliment to Hermione's skills, right? She's decorating the crabapple tree leaves for the birthday party dinner and he's like, "Great job, Hermione. They look beautiful." But it also is kind of gross. So, like, is this progress for Ron? Like, is he learning how to interact? Is he growing in his social skills? Or is it, like, not progress because it's just manipulative and icky? I mean, it just depends on how he uses it, right? Yeah.

Like, Ron can be mean and selfish and unappreciative. And we know that, like, doing things helps you notice them, right? If you start listing the things you're grateful for, you'll start being more grateful in your life. And so maybe he's like, I need to find something to compliment Hermione on. Oh, my God, she works so hard all the time. And, like, he will actually come to appreciate her more. Yeah.

But that's not the title of this book. It's not 12 ways to make the witches in your life more appreciated or notice how wonderful they are. It's how to charm them. And so, I mean, like it's a play on I'm like, who was this publisher? I came up with the word charm and a wizarding world. I get it. But actually, the wizarding world charm of it all makes it even more nefarious that you're like casting spells on them. So I

I don't know. Right. Like I do this all the time. And actually, I think this is like a meme of behind every woman. There are six friends who read this email real quick just to make sure it's nice. Right. Like all the time where I'm like sending an email and I'm like, did I couch it enough? And I'm not lying. Right. Like I'm asking my friends to I'm like.

Am I thinking of all the things that I should be thinking of? What is invisible to me here? And then if they're like, oh, I think that you should compliment sandwich this. I don't make up the compliments, right? Like there are better ways to communicate to make things go down more smoothly. There are gratitude practices. There are all those things.

I think Ron is mostly using this for good with Hermione and with his mom in this chapter, right? He's like, mom, notice this thing, which I'm like, good for you, Ron, transferring these skills.

I don't know. Like the proof is somewhat in the pudding. It sounds like with this book and it depends, but this book sounds not great. And Ron seems to be kind of doing the best he can with this book is my theory and is making progress.

Like, as a person, not just with Hermione. Like, I think that this book is maybe turning him into a better person. Do you disagree? No, I agree with you. Where I'm landing is like, so why is he giving it to Harry? Because Harry has been much more aware of the things that Molly does for him, you know, and has been... Harry's like, I'm good. I'm good. Thank you, Mrs. Weasley. Look at me shine. Exactly. Exactly.

a sweater for me why thank you it's the greatest gift I've ever received so I think in his behavior Ron is doing great in his reasoning of like hey bro like you should check like that's where it feels gross you know what I mean absolutely and also because

It's just this, like, you give the self-help book that helped you, even if your friend doesn't have the same problem. It's like, I loved this book about dog training here, Casper. Right. And you're like, I'm good. I don't have a dog. In Judaism, there is an expression of the fervor of the convert. Right. Like that.

And I think that that's what's going on here, right? He's just like, I just learned about politeness. Have you heard? It works. Wonders. Yes.

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This episode is brought to you in part by the Fetzer Institute. When we asked the team at Fetzer what we should highlight about their mission in this time, they suggested that we breathe together. So take a breath with me.

Fetzer believes that centering the sacred is the path towards shared flourishing. As part of their work, they are sponsoring our shows here at Not Sorry. To learn more about Fetzer and help create a more loving world for all, visit Fetzer.org. Join the movement at Fetzer.org. Is there somewhere else in the chapter where you see this theme of progress? Yes. We have to talk about what happened

- The chapter? - The main activity, yeah, sure. - The title, whatever.

So Scrimshaw shows up in this chapter. Upon this reading, I really felt for Scrimshaw, to be honest. Me too. Fascinating. But what I think is so interesting in terms of the theme of progress that, and I love our theme conversations because this never would have occurred to me, is that the ministry holds on to these objects, right? So Dumbledore has given these three objects, one to each of the kids, and Scrimshaw is finally handing them over very begrudgingly.

And I think part of the reason why he's so begrudging about this is he's like, these kids are going to make progress on their whatever it is that they are up to. And I don't know what they're up to, but it's not exactly the same thing that I'm up to. And therefore, it will hurt my agenda. Right.

That is zero-sum thinking to me, right? Like, in a perfect world, the ministry is working on one front, and Harry, and you're right, like, and Hermione and Ron are working on another front. And I see this a lot. I feel like liberals have this argument a lot about, like, the best way to fight something. And I'm like, we need all the different ways to fight. Like, some of us are really good inside of systems, and some of us are really good outside of systems. And I think that...

And Scrimgeour's flaw here isn't in being skeptical of Dumbledore or isn't necessarily in being skeptical of these kids. I think his flaw is believing that there's only one way for progress. And like this meeting could just be really different. It could be like, I don't know what you guys are up to.

Let us know if we can support you. I know we're on the same side. This is what we're up to. Like, let's try to collaborate and work together and not work across purposes, right? Like,

There are a million ways that this conversation could go. Yeah. And he's delayed the progress of the trio as long as he could. Right. He's held on to these magical items as long as he could. And Hermione is able to figure out why now is the moment where legally he has to pass them on. Honestly, I because of the political situation we're in, I was like, well, good for Scrimgeour that he obeyed the law and passing these objects on at all. Right. No.

They weren't waiting for it. They didn't know they existed. So in some ways he's delayed as much as possible, but then ultimately does make that decision to help them progress. I think part of the reason why he's so unwilling to collaborate or even be curious is that he doesn't trust what they are trying to do. From his perspective, is Harry trying to defeat Voldemort? Is he trying to undermine the ministry? There's just zero...

You know, he's not experiencing a lot of collaboration from Harry. For good reason, right? Like, I'm not blaming Harry. But I think... No, but I think Harry could be like...

Release Stan Shunpike and I will tell... Like, no one is doing good diplomacy here. And Scrimgeour is not Fudge, right? Like, I think there's just a lot... And certainly it's not Umbridge. I mean, you see the troll in the scene. He's literally looking at the back of his wrist. He's seeing the words that he was made to, like, tattoo on himself. So there's so much going on here that is impeding the progress of any potential collaboration. But it's...

Yeah, you can only wonder what might have happened if there had been greater trust, if there had been greater collaboration. But yeah, it's a collision of two different entities that just will not operate together. And it's really hard to tell, right, when you're in a situation where there is actually a finite amount of resources and either you're going to get them or I'm going to get them. And when it is a rising tide lifts all boats.

Sometimes like with podcasting, people only have a certain number of hours that they can listen to podcasts in a week. And I just like I'm choosing like I'm like, no, but I'm still going to promote other people's podcasts because a rising tide lifts all boats and like good audio is good audio. Right. And sometimes you have to know that there's scarcity and still just behave as if like we're all a part of the same thing, which is like, you know, hopefully being in people's

ears in a loving and productive way. And therefore, right, like I will share the space with you. But I really understand, right? Like you're like, but this is scarce. Voldemort is going to start killing people. We do have a finite amount of time. And like, I don't want you to get in my way. Like, I just really understand both. And it's often true that it's a scarce resource. And I want us to behave as if it isn't true, even when it is. Yeah, yeah.

So Casper, it is now time for us to do Lectio Divina, and I picked a sentence for us. Been busy. We got some newborn unicorns. I'll show you when you get back. So step one, Casper, what is literally happening in the sentence?

So at the party, we are having a bunch of guests come over, including lovely Hagrid. And in some ways, kind of relating to our theme of progress, right? Like little baby unicorns are still being born, even amidst this horrific context that the birthday party is being celebrated in. So Hagrid's telling us about magical creatures that he's caring for. And, you know, life continues at Hogwarts, even in a way that's

Well, the trio are away. And Hagrid thinks that the kids are coming back, right? Also true. He's like, I'll show you when you're back. And so, yeah, Hagrid thinks things are more normal than they are. Yeah, which is interesting because he's seen firsthand how not normal things are.

Yeah. We don't know what people know at this point, right? Like maybe everybody still thinks McGonagall is going to be headmaster. That's true. Yeah. Hogwarts famously not great at communicating with parents or faculty. So.

It's true. I actually really do think that at this point McGonagall, jokes aside, that McGonagall is headmistress at this point because the ministry is going to fall in an upcoming chapter. And I think that's when Snape and the Carrows are put in charge. That's when the shift happens. Yeah, that makes sense. So Hagrid's just like, it's going to suck without Dumbledore. And like the world is sad, but like obviously they're coming back for their last year of school. And I have newborn baby unicorns. And I'm so excited to show you. Yeah, exactly. It's adorable. It's adorable.

I want to point attention to is the we got some newborn unicorns because I love Hagrid because I really think he means we like the world because it's the forbidden forest. It's not Hogwarts. Those unicorns do not belong to Hogwarts. Like it's just the forbidden forest and he's like there's a new baby like we got so many unicorns and they live near me so I'm going to be able to show them to you and they're like

proximity wise kind of Hagrid's but the Forbidden Forest has taught us and Aragog has taught us like the Forbidden Forest does not belong to Hogwarts. How

Hagrid has a great diplomatic relationship with it. So this we, I think, is just like very dear. It's true. It kind of it situates Hagrid in this world that is not Harry's, right? Like and we've talked before about how Hagrid is this kind of bridging character between two worlds, between the forest, between the school. And you see him claiming that part of his life in this really beautiful way here. Yeah, that's nice.

Step two, we ask ourselves what the story reminds us of. Been busy. We got some newborn unicorns. I'll show you when you get back. It reminds me of, I mean, just like the only media I'm consuming right now. I'm watching this show called Better Things.

that's about a mom of three kids. She's a single mom with three daughters. And the baby is like significantly younger. It's like, I don't know, like a 17-year-old, a 13-year-old, and like a six-year-old. And the 13 and 17-year-olds are often very frustrated with how the baby gets treated because she gets babied, right? And she does. And then also you're like, but she's sick.

Right? Like, in this feeling of like, well, the world shouldn't stop just because you happen to be younger. And then also,

But they're babies, right? Like a newborn unicorn probably does need special care. And this six-year-old probably shouldn't be overhearing the same things that the 17-year-old is capable of overhearing. And yeah, so I'm just like thinking of the preciousness of young people, especially like Harry was denied so much of a childhood and this like desire to protect young people.

that Hagrid has that I think we see borne out. And I think as a middle child, and I'm sure this is true for you as an oldest child, it can be so frustrating when you're like, why are they getting more of whatever just because they're young? Yeah, it's not fair.

But it's funny because so we both love and listen to a podcast called The Slate Culture Gab Fest. And they recently recommended this French show that's set in 1940 when the Nazis invade France. And there's a doctor who's a prominent character in the first few episodes who delivers a baby while literally the Germans are rolling into town. And so there's this absolute chaos that's happening all around. And yet, like,

he's literally delivering a child. This woman is in labor. Like you can't escape the natural processes of life. What that does impact is that the health and safety and kind of the context of how safe and easy and, you know, everything else, the access to medication, for example, that's needed to deliver a baby safely.

So I'm just thinking about the way, yeah, A, the natural processes of life, but B, this I'll show you when you get back. Like there's so much implied there of like, I'm going to see you again. You're coming back. Right. Like we can predict what the future is because you're leaving on the 17th and you'll be back on the 24th. Like surprise, surprise. Voldemort's rise means that certainty is gone. Like what's coming is chaos.

And that's what you see in this show is just like the mayor doesn't, he just leaves town. Like the police system disintegrates. Like there's just absolute chaos and the horror of that. And sometimes I think chaos can be like,

glorified maybe or just this sense of like oh structures are bad like yes they uphold systems of inequality yes but like my god chaos is not a better option a lot of the time so I'm just seeing the pain in that second clause of I'll show you when you get back like we don't know right and Hagrid is super aware of this right like Moody just died like he just almost died I think it's just like

Hagrid is just so optimistic all of the time. Like Dumbledore just died. Hagrid knows grief and knows that things don't go to plan. And yet,

He's just like, they're baby unicorns and I can't wait to show you. So step three, what is this room I do have in your own life, Casper? I had lunch with a friend yesterday who I hadn't seen for a while. And it was so interesting because I'm sure you have this too, where you sit down with someone and you're like, am I going to try and like say everything that's happened in my life over the last three years? It's like, don't worry about it. Stuff happens. Don't worry. Yeah.

Yeah, and I literally said that. I was like, well, a bunch of stuff has happened, but let me tell you what I'm thinking about now, because otherwise, we're never going to get through everything.

So just that sense of being busy, like it can feel like such an empty statement. But on the other hand, like you want me to tell you everything that I've been feeling and doing and then what this happened in that relationship, but it ended and blah, you know, like too much, too much. And so I love what Hagrid is doing here, which is just like, let me tell you one really specific thing that we can have a nice conversation about, which is these cute baby unicorns, right? Like what an opening volley for a lovely chat at your birthday. Yeah.

Maybe he's been reading the book about like how to talk to people you're in charge of. Lovely. Exactly. Amazing hack. Oh, my God. How about you, love? What do you what do you remind it up from your own life? It reminds me of we just hosted a Seder.

And there's just this moment that made me so happy. So, first of all, our seders make me so happy. I think it's my favorite night of the year, our annual seder, truly. But Julia, who has not been able to come to Seder for the last few years because she has three little babies, came for like the first hour. And there was like flames.

Yeah.

is an introvert who I think if this one-year-old baby was not there, he would have gone upstairs during this cocktail snack hour in red. Right? But he just got to hang out with this baby. Babies are magical. That's what I think. They can keep introverts socializing. So Casper, what does this make us feel called to? Been busy. We got some newborn unicorns. I'll show you when you get back.

I'm really resonating with what you said about intergenerational friendship and just like that a healthy social life includes at least one baby a year, right? Like someone who you love is having a baby, you know, or has a grandchild or like there's just like a constant flow of curdleable babies. Yeah.

I'm always interested in like markers of social and spiritual health. Like, I'm really curious about the number of street parties. Like, can we track that around the country? Like, because I think it would tell us a lot. And so I think like how many babies are in your life is kind of a beautiful marker of like, yeah, what does...

especially at different ages, right? That it isn't just that moment where like, okay, I don't have kids myself, but I'm in this phase of the last 10 years where a lot of people did have kids. But is that also going to be true in 10 years time, in 20, in 30? So I just really like that as like a little kind of tool in my mind to check in on that. How about you? What does it invite you to do?

this is something I'm already doing, but I'm just going to share it because I think everybody should do it and I'm getting you in on it. You plan for the babies by throwing a great Seder every year so that right, like 17 year old Ellen and 15 year old Cammie are always going to want to come back for Seder and in 10 to 15 years bring their babies. So it really calls me to putting in the effort of maintaining rituals and

Because you don't get a baby a year by accident. So I'm going to keep making ice cream sundaes every year so you guys keep coming back. Deal. Hotels.com knows that planning your book club's annual trip can get chaotic. Self-improvement Steve needs a hotel gym and horror Harriet ghosted the group chat about budget. Collaborate, vote on your favorites, and book all in the app. Find your perfect somewhere with Hotels.com.

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Airport stress? Step into relaxation with the Platinum Card. And get that, wait, am I famous? Treatment? Enjoy complimentary access to over 1,400 airport lounges with the American Express Global Lounge Collection and the Platinum Card. Learn more at americanexpress.com slash explore-platinum. Terms apply. This week's voicemail is from Emily. Hi, lovely people. My name's Emily and I'm calling in from Minnesota. The last chapter of The Half-Blood Prince contains my favorite quote from the entire Harry Potter series and I wanted to share that with you all.

I'm chronically ill and disabled. My chronic illnesses have no cure, very little treatment, and very little research on them. And they severely impact my life, and my life looks quite a bit different from my peers. About two and a half years ago, I bought myself my first pillbox, which was a little bit hard for me to do because it was a very tangible sign of just how sick I had become. To make it a little bit more personalized, I wrote this quote on top. It's a quote from Albus Dumbledore.

It is important to fight, fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated. Like I said, my illnesses have no cure, and they have very little research. I have no choice but to fight, fight again, and keep fighting to have even just a slightly better quality of life. But to extrapolate that even more, there's a lot of evil in this world, as there's a lot of evil in the wizarding world.

And I think it's going to be next to impossible to truly eradicate it all. But if we fight, fight again, and keep fighting, maybe we can keep it at bay and prevent serious harm or undo the serious harm that has already been done. I also want to add for my fellow disabled people, if personalizing your AIDS makes your life a little bit better, you're allowed to do it.

Thank you for all the work you do. This podcast really means a lot to me, and I know you're making the world a little bit better every day. Emily, thank you so much for your voicemail. And I love that idea of adding your own kind of personalized wisdom or something you want to remember onto the tools that, you know, help you. And that's something I do, too.

even in a small way, you know, just like inscribing something at the beginning of every notebook that I use or putting pictures of a shirtless Jake Gyllenhaal in my folder in high school. You know, just finding ways to turn that material things that we use every day into something that feel like ours or that help us. So I really appreciate you sharing that. And I'm so glad that this podcast means so much to you because it does to me too. Thank you.

It's now time for us to remember members of our community who have been loved and lost. And this week we remember Alec Javaroski, who was 59, and a farmer who loved tractors, but his family even more. Jane Moses, who was 100, a grandmother, world traveler, and card player. Cheryl Cofferin, who was 66, and above all, loved serving others. And Mark Plant, 65, a dearest dad and grandpa.

May their memories be a blessing. Vanessa, it's time for us to bless someone in this chapter. And who would you like to bless this time? I would like to wish Harry Potter a very happy birthday. Yeah. Say more about that. First of all, his response is just so cute, right? He's sharing a bedroom with his best friend. His best friend wakes up and is like, happy birthday. And he's like, right. And it's so joyful, ecstatic.

And I don't know, any moment that we see Harry be a kid really makes me happy. I don't care about birthdays, but I love other people's birthdays so much. And I love how far out of everyone's way they go to make him feel special on his birthday. And then he gets to feel special on his birthday. And so I just want to be part of that and say, happy birthday, Harry. And if you're listening to this on your birthday, happy birthday.

birthday happy birthday harry what about you casper i want to bless hermione there's this great moment where the trio are still trying to find ways to have conversations together without being caught especially by molly and so at some point hermione uses the muffliato charm and ron is like what like you said we shouldn't do that and then she just says times change and

I just love seeing the growth in Hermione's character. I mean, we saw from book one already her willingness for rules to be broken when she thinks it's appropriate. But there's just this like cool, sassy, calm clarity to Hermione, which comes out in that moment and just a little bit of naughtiness. And yeah, I love that. May we all have that.

Amen. Next week, we're reading Book 7, Chapter 8, The Wedding through the theme of storytelling with very special and beloved guest, Michaela Bly.

A reminder that you can find ad-free episodes of this podcast on Apple Podcasts and on Patreon, and that this was a Not Sorry production, a feminist production company we are sponsored by the Fetzer Institute, for whom we're very grateful. Our executive producer is Vanessa Zolton. We're edited and produced by AJ Yaramaz. Our music is by Ivan Paizow and Nick Boll, and we're distributed by ACAST.

Thank you to our Minerva's Book Club members, Averill, Amanda C., Amanda S., Amber, Amy, Ashley, Danny, Emile, Esther, Gregoire, Casey, Kelsey, Kriti, Kyle, Marina, Nadia, and Sita. And thanks for this week's voicemail to Emily. Thanks also to Ariana Nettleman, Julia Argi, Nikki Zolton, Courtney Brown, Matt Potts, Anissa Ahmed, Danny Langley, and of course, Stephanie Porcel. We'll be back next week. Bye-bye, everyone. Bye, everyone. Bye.

Would you like to put 30 seconds on your clock? Because it's time for the 30 second recap. What? This is always when I try to be funny, she doesn't laugh. And then when I'm being entirely serious, I just get laughed at. Charmed by you.

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