Vulnerability: The Dursleys Departing (Book 7, Chapter 3)
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Chapter 3: The Dursleys Departing The sound of the front door slamming echoed up the stairs and a voice yelled, "Oi! You!"

16 years of being addressed thus left Harry in no doubt whom his uncle was calling. Nevertheless, he did not immediately respond. I'm Caspar Ter-Kyle. And I'm Vanessa Zoltan. And welcome to the end of the Dursleys on Harry Potter and the Sacred Text.

Casper, our only announcement today is our every flavored bean. So there's a big goodbye in this chapter. And so we're going to talk about goodbyes. They're important. How do we handle them? And then you have a little twist to this.

Well, because we get a very specific goodbye. Yes. Which is literally in the text. What do you say to one another at the end of 16 years solid dislike? So I want us to try doing that live on air to see what we would actually say in a sort of Petunia Harry situation. So come join us on Patreon if you want to listen to every episode's flavored bean. And that's patreon.com slash Harry Potter sacred text.

Vanessa, this week's theme is vulnerability. And you have a story for us. Today's episode is inspired. We want to dedicate it to one of the original members of our Harry Potter and Sacred Texts community. And that is Judith Giller-Linewall. And we picked this theme that you mentioned, vulnerability, because...

it's a really important theme, but also vulnerability was Judith's favorite word. She believed wholeheartedly that if we were all vulnerable with each other, like the world would be a different and better place. And Judith passed away in 2022. And it just in this last season feels really important to recognize her as just

truly a key part of our community. And so the story I want to tell is one in which she was really vulnerable. So you and I ran the original Harry Potter and the Sacred Text class.

And I would say that Judith was willing to be vulnerable from the beginning. She was so important in that. Yes. She was the person who we needed to shake people down for money at the end in order to please my boss. And it made you and I really uncomfortable. And Judith was like, "I'll do it." Right? She was just really willing to step into roles that made other people uncomfortable.

But in particular, you and I ran the class for a year together, and then I ran it for a second year. And then I got fired from that job. And so we were just going to stop doing the Harry Potter and the Sacred Text in-person class. We had started doing the podcast, and it just felt like something that we could move on from. And Judith approached us and was like, can I lead this class now? And she said,

was vulnerable and came with a plan, right? She was like, I would want to co-do it with Emily and Carl, two other key, you know, members of our initial community. And would you be willing to train us in certain things? And I was like, train? I don't know. Go create, you know? Yeah.

And she ended up stepping into this really big leadership role in the Harry Potter and the Sacred Text community and creating a lot of the initial best practice documents and everything that we shared on our website. For years, everything that we had as far as local groups was created by Judith.

So much so that at one point, you know, pre-COVID, when people were still going out and meeting in person, we had over 80 local groups meeting all over the world, like in Lithuania to Seattle. And I think you would agree with me that I 100% credit Judith with this. You and I were like proof of concept. We did a thing. We've lost our space. We've been told we can't do it anymore. Right? Like, it's time to end this.

And Judith, I really do think was vulnerable and, you know, the flip side of vulnerability, right? Was incredibly brave and approached us and was like, can I do this thing? And there was absolutely a chance that we could have been jerks about it. We could have said no. We could have any number of things. And instead, she didn't just take it on. She like took it on and made it something that I don't think you or I ever would have thought to. So...

Yeah, I just want us to take a minute to remember Judith because I know that we would be very different as a podcast and as a company and as people without her. And I love this idea that she had that, right? She's like, if we actually talked about the thing under the thing, right?

we could live in a different world. I also remember she was so willing to be vulnerable about her own life in the group, like what she shared. And it's funny, you know, you and I have been in lots of group situations and there's always someone who has to go first.

And once that person shares, the table is set and other people feel like they can be honest about what's going on or that they don't understand or, you know, whatever it is. And leadership comes in so many ways. And Judith was such a leader in that way, in being the one to go first, the one to say, I'll do it, the one to really embody what so much of this process

book is about. And I'm so glad we get to honor her in this episode. And I'm so grateful to have gotten to know her a little bit through this community. Yeah, she, you know, we used to do several chapters at a time in the class. And so we did three minute recaps instead of 30 second recaps. And I can still hear her voice. Like if there, if nobody wanted to go, her being like, well, I'll go right. Like just perfect willingness. Yeah. I mean, yeah.

For just this willingness to always be the vulnerable one and always be the one to step in and say the hard thing first.

And I mean, what that makes me think of, and we see this in the chapter, right, is that vulnerability makes space for other people. Whether or not they step into that space is then on them. Dudley creates a little bit of space here. And I think Harry meets Dudley part of the way. Petunia sees that same created space and can't get herself to step into the vulnerability. And, you know, vulnerability does have this really interesting etymology. It comes from volnus, which means wound.

And so vulnerability is about the ability to be wounded, that you can be wounded. And I think we underestimate that about vulnerability, right? Like it's really flipping hard. Judith wasn't asking for something easy when she thought it could make the world better. Absolutely. Thanks, Judith.

So Casper, are you ready to do the vulnerable thing where you can be wounded because I will do a better job than you and you do your 30 second recap? Let's go. Yes, I've got a timer ready. Here we go.

Okay, on your mark, get set, go. Hello, my name is Daedalus Diggle, and today I am visiting a house for a renovation. They think they're escaping on a short break to escape Voldemort, but actually I'm here to do a seaside scape theme for...

full renovation of a bathroom with shell decorations, a living room with turquoise Florida seaside decorations, and a little escape hatch for a boy that they're hiding. On the offering price for only $800,000 at the beautiful Privet Drive, who would like to make a bid?

It's in dollars, not pounds. Oh, that's right. Deadless is actually in American. And actually it would be in galleons. I have feedback on your 30 second recap and I feel like it's different feedback than you would think. It's currency based. Okay. Well, Vanessa, it's your turn. 30 seconds on the clock. Here we go for your 30 second recap. Three, two, one. Yep.

So Vernon is like, I'm not going to leave. Fine, I'm going to leave. And Harry is like, dude, you super have to leave. I'm going to turn 17. The protections on this house are going to expire. Voldemort is going to torture and kill you. I'm so sorry, but you have to go. And he's like, fine, can I have Kingsley Shacklebolt? And Harry's like, literally, he's the prime minister's personal guard. No, you can't have him. And so they're saying goodbye. And Dudley is like, I don't think you're a waste of space. And Petunia is like, and then can't say anything. And they drive off.

the Dursleys drive off when they leave Privet Drive. They drive for 10 miles and then disapparate. Correct. They're going to disapparate. I mean, the first sentence of the novel, right? Mr. and Mrs. Dursley of number four Privet Drive. And now they are no longer of Privet Drive. This is a big deal. It's central to their identity. And we will get back to that. Yes, we will.

So Casper, I really felt called out by this chapter. Ooh. Yes. Called in. I felt called in. I'm going to lean into the vulnerability. Vernon does something that I can really relate to. He has a huge decision to make.

And rather than calmly making a pro/con list, he is flip-flopping and like, "I'm definitely gonna leave. We're definitely never gonna leave. This is the only thing I can do to save my family. We're not gonna leave, you're just trying to steal my house."

So, right, we find ourselves at number four Privet Drive in this chapter and Harry is about to leave. Mad-Eye Moody is coming. There's some sort of plan for him to leave because he's about to turn 17. And so the Dursleys have been told that they have to leave for their physical safety. And they are just going to be picked up by two wizards and get taken

somewhere safe and they are going to apparate and like they don't know what that is, right? Like there's very little information and the way that we watch Vernon respond to this incredibly vulnerable situation, if we think about our etymology, like a situation which you can be wounded, it is through this like, yes, I'm gonna leave. No, I'm not gonna leave. Yes, I'm gonna leave. No, I'm not gonna leave. And I think that's

I have nothing to say other than that that is also how I make decisions. And it's not pleasant for the people around me. It's not that it's unpleasant. It's just you just never quite know if it's the final landing place. And so it feels like, you know, when you're dancing, you're like staying on the balls of your feet or you're running. Like you can't rest into the heel of the foot, I would say. Sure. But it's not like...

It's because both things are true. It's not that someone is dumb and they don't understand. Yes, he's in mortal danger. And also, he's going to lose his house. He's going to lose his home. He's going to lose his job, his state. Like, there's no remote working. Like, this is such a life shift. He's worried about providing for his family. Like, the only thing that the text tells us that, at least from Harry's perspective, that moves it ultimately in one direction is when Dudley says,

I'm going with these weird wizardy people because like I've met a Dementor and I don't want to do that again. And the you know Harry then says well of course you know they're not going to leave little duddykins behind. But yeah I do think there is something really about Vernon's role as a protector as a provider that's at stake. I mean obviously he's awful like let's not hide behind that but his concern and therefore his flip-flopping is so understandable. They literally don't know where

or like what they're going to eat, right? The way that Harry is trying to convince them is by raising the stakes, right? The way to potentially try to convince someone in this situation would be to say, look, I don't know exactly where you're going, but they're going to take good care of you. Right.

Instead he's like, "You've tried to run from us before. How did that work out?" Exactly. And appealing to the befores is not a great, like, Arthur Weasley, absolutely bananas. You know, like, previous people basically blew up the house.

Aunt Marge turned into a bubble gum. Like their experience with wizards is not good. And so when he responds to Daedalus being like, oh, all those clever knobs in a car, I could never drive it. He's like, the dude cannot even drive, which made me feel very attacked because friends and listeners, neither can I. Yeah.

Yeah, I get it. Like all of the signs that Vernon knows to look for are not good in terms of what this plan is. And so the desire for Kingsley is this like one person who knows how to dress like a muggle, a person he's seen on television, right? He's seen protecting the prime minister. He's like, you're saying you're sending me your best? Well, then send me your best. You know, like I do get that. Yeah. It just really does make me realize that when someone is feeling vulnerable, you know,

Maybe the thing to do is to not raise the stakes and make it scarier for them. Right. If being vulnerable is being open to being wounded rather than being like, you're super open to being wounded. You're super open to being wounded. Be like, here are all of the ways that we can make you safe. Here are all the shields we can offer you. Because when we're vulnerable, we are.

act out, right? We make irrational decisions. We can't find a place to land, right? I really understand this. I mean, spiraling, right? This is just, he is spiraling. I mean, I mentioned Dudley's thing of like, I'm going to go with these people. That shifts him. But I'm,

ultimately it's the time crunch it's the fact that like the decision has to be made it's now or never you know and that i think that's very reflective of how vulnerability works it's like sometimes you do the thing that feels so vulnerable because like it's now or never you have to there is no choice anymore it's this or that but until the very moment of that moment

It's back and forth. It's back and forth. It's should I stay with him? Should I leave him? Should I take the job? Should I not take the job? Should I give my kidney? Should I not give my kidney? You know, like the whole thing. Yeah. And I really also love your point about him seeing himself as a provider because he's

That was something that he's been able to do to some extent, right? For the last however many years, 20 years, right? He goes and he sells drills and he comes home and he can provide this house. I mean, it's just like the...

purposelessness that he is stepping into also. And I think he's also confronted with a reckoning, right? There's a moment where Harry's like, well, they're going to come after you because they think you might be bait, right? If they capture you and torture you, they think I'll come to your rescue. And that Harry and Vernon look into each other's eyes and Vernon has a realization or at least the heavy concern. A concern.

Harry ain't coming. And that's Vernon's fault. It's the decisions he made because he's abused this child for 17 years. Yeah. And this is the comeuppance of like, there is no loyalty. There is no love. And there is no rescue coming from this boy who has the decision of whether Vernon, his wife and child will live or die. Yeah. And so I think there's this real confrontation with his own actions over the last 17 years. Yeah.

There's one thing to feel vulnerable because someone else has done something to you, which can create anger, which is a self-protective emotion. But if you are in a vulnerable position and the people you love are in a vulnerable position and you realize that it is your own doing, like that causes shame. Yeah.

which is worse than anger, right? It's like, oh, shoot, I see this now. You know, it's very like Prince and the Pauper, right? The mask is revealed. Ha ha, you should have been nice to me all along. And...

And yeah, he is vulnerable because of himself. They would. They would be in a totally different situation if they had been nice to Harry for the last 16 years. Harry would be sitting down with the ministry and being like, we need to protect them. What can we do? He would be going and checking out apartments with them and being like, okay, you're going to be here. Or I can't know. Right? Like this would be totally different. Yeah.

if they hadn't been abusive for the last 16 years. And it's their fault. It would never occur to Harry to do that for them. I don't think Harry is like, screw them. I'm not going to. It's just like, that's not the dynamic that they have. And so why would Harry ever do that? Well, and that's why I think looking at someone else in this scene, looking at Dudley is so interesting because Dudley does embrace, I mean, obviously he's been a child. He's also been awful in his own way, but

Dudley's reaction is so different. And that's because he has had experience in a different way from Vernon of what the magical world can do, right? His encounter with Dementors, his, you know, just even hearing them being described, the text tells us his hand jerked upwards to cover his mouth.

I would say he responds in this scene in a way where he's not really even able to track everything. He doesn't understand where Harry's going. He's like, well, where is Harry going? Why is he not coming with us? It feels like he's just completely discombobulated here. And that vulnerability means he is the one to say, oh, I'm going with these people who say they're going to protect me because I know I can't do anything, nor do I think you, mum and dad, can protect me from this.

Dementors. And now that I'm hearing that there's thousands of them, dear Lord, you know, get me out of here. And I think that vulnerability begets more vulnerability, both in good and bad ways. I'm trying to think.

Help me. Because Vernon's lack of vulnerability to Harry has actually put him in a more vulnerable situation, right? If he was open to Harry as a potential son, they'd be in a really different situation. But here, I mean, I guess it's just how we respond to things, right? Dudley was put in a vulnerable situation with Harry before and...

And he's like, oh, I now know, right? Like, and I don't want to do that again. And the way out of that is to actually make myself vulnerable to something else, right? So in order to not be wounded by the wizarding world,

in a violent way, I am willing to... I mean, Dudley is not going back to his senior year of school. Right. Like, he's leaving his home, his friends, his school. And he's like, that is a vulnerability I am willing to do. And so, yeah, I don't think I have anything smart to say there. Except,

Sometimes we're just picking between two vulnerabilities. Well, but also he then says the famous line, right? I don't think you're a waste of space. And so like he is the only one who's making that kind of bridge towards Harry. I'm suddenly so struck by just thinking what has Dudley been like at school, like in his life since that attack from the Dementors, because that has traumatized him. And like, he can't just go back to being like,

cool dudders on the school playground. Although he does have a leather jacket, which I'm super into. But like, I just don't think he is the same person that he used to be. Right. Yeah. I just think about, you know, teenagers who've,

you know maybe witnessed something that's really difficult or lost a parent at a young age or like there is an experience that no one else in that school playground understands and so he's a different person and there's a a softness that he has not learned at home a humility a generosity that comes out in this moment even in the cup of tea right he's he's an expert at conveying it because he's had no one to teach him but he is acting on it i i just find this to be such a

I don't want to say forgiving moment, but just such a beautiful moment that says like, wow, transformation is possible through empathy, through compassion, through vulnerability. And Dudley is showing us how. Yeah. And that it doesn't have to be expert. No. You know? Yeah. Like it's still beautiful and Harry still clocks it. Right. And not only that,

saves Petunia, Vernon, and Dudley's life, right? I think until this conversation, I always saw the great act of vulnerability being you're not a waste of space, but actually it's, I'm going with them, right? Like he, in book one, he is following Vernon everywhere. And he says to Petunia at one point, right? Like dad's lost it, right? Like, but they keep following Vernon. They're following Vernon to this island in the middle of nowhere. And this is...

Dudley stepping into a leadership role and being like, "Well, you guys are making a bad choice." And they can blame Dudley if it doesn't go well, right? But he's the one who's going to be vulnerable and make this decision. That's so smart. I like that a lot.

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Do you think Petunia has a different model to Vernon's response? Because they're both not doing what Dudley is. But hers, yeah. Tell me how you read Petunia in this chapter. I think Petunia is really excited to let anybody else make this decision, right? Which I also understand when you're in a vulnerable position, right? I've been dealing with health stuff with my mom lately. And she fell and broke her elbow and just...

She will look to me and be like, I need you to decide. Right? Like she's in pain. And so she's like, I just want to be out of pain. So I don't have the long game in mind here. Right? And then there are some decisions that I'm like, do you know what? I can make that decision. And then other ones where I'm like, hello, surgeon, I need you to make this decision. Right? So there are just moments where you're like,

Really happy to let somebody else decide and I do think that that comes from vulnerability I don't have all the information or I'm having too big of a feeling which is pain in order to make a rational decision right now or a decision that I will be glad I made three months from now and So I think petunia is just so overwhelmed that the fact that this isn't up to her is just a relief. Hmm

But what I do think is really interesting about Petunia is that there's space made for her, right? I think that being vulnerable first often makes space, and Dudley does that, right? Dudley clears the floor and is like, "You're not a waste of space, Harry," right? Like,

I hope you're safe, right, is the vibe. And Harry responds not totally in kind, but he meets him there, right? Dudley at least is saying goodbye, right? He says, see you, Harry. And Harry responds, you know, see you, big D. There's this like actually acknowledging each other moment. And then Petunia stays behind, right?

And like consider saying something and then just can't. And I'm wondering, we've all had moments like that where like the vulnerable thing is right there. The right thing to do is right there. And we just can't get ourselves to do it. It would cost her so little. Like the risk is so low. Yeah.

Right. All she would have to say is like, be careful, kid. Right. And like, it could mean everything. What stops us in those moments? I mean, I feel like the risk is that she has to tell a different story about what has happened.

Because the only way that in her mind, you know, I want to be clear that it doesn't justify behavior of, you know, abuse of a child in any way. But the only way I think in her mind that how they've treated Harry makes sense is if he is a threat, if he ruined her life, if he, you know, all of the things that make him bad kind of in her mind legitimize her bad behavior and treatment of him.

We've seen Petunia in other moments throughout the books have these vacillating moments where it feels like something is cracking open and then she shuts it closed again. And it's the same thing here. And I think it's because she has to hold on to that story of this child ruined my life rather than, as the evidence now clearly points to,

This was a boy born into a destiny that was not his choosing and like that it's not his fault. And that, but if I say like, take care or good luck or, you know, I hope you're okay. Or, you know, I hope we meet again. She doesn't want that anyway, but, but something that, that she has to humanize him. And I think she has dehumanized him from the very beginning. And I think that's partly, yeah.

You know, I had this situation recently with a friend where like, I cancelled last minute on something and it was humiliating to pick up the phone and call and be like, and it was the second time I'd done it to the same person.

Humiliating. And I think I was just like, but I have to because either I risk this friendship kind of falling away or I just have to own that I made bad decisions. But it's uncomfortable. I don't want to do that. And I feel like that's the situation that Petunia is in. She doesn't want to be vulnerable because that's when she's going to have to face who she's really been. Yeah. Oh, that's so evocative. Yeah.

I had such a worse answer than I'm going to say anyway. But it's also, he could reject her, right? If making yourself vulnerable is about leaving yourself open to being wounded, Petunia could say, like, be safe, Harry. And he could be like, too little, too late, lady. Yeah. There is a chance that he doesn't meet her there and that she's humiliated. That's true. Because he hasn't really done any of that in this scene so far. Well, and why would he? Yeah, exactly. Right. Yeah.

But I really think your answer is right that, yeah, you had to acknowledge that you are someone who is messing up, right? And that is painful. And she would have to be someone who would acknowledge that she's been messing up. Yeah. Casper, how do you feel like Harry does in this chapter? Do we want more from him? They don't deserve more.

Listen, I think he's already managing himself by staying out of the communal space, right? He's been hiding upstairs. So I think he's already doing some praiseworthy self-management by not escalating. This chapter takes place in the final half an hour, maybe final 10 minutes of them being in the same place. So-

The fact that he hasn't been, like, laughing at Vernon packing and unpacking the car or, like, you know, there's so many things that could have escalated this situation, which he hasn't done. So I want to start there. I think the moment where it feels like there could have been a little more from Harry is in response to Dudley. And I wonder if his parents had not been in the room, if that might have happened.

But again, for Harry, that would have been a vulnerability too much, right? To expose himself in that way by giving Dudley a hug or saying, you know, a little more than just take care. So honestly, I feel like Harry does a pretty good job here. And I love you pointing us to sometimes Harry.

it is all we can do to not make something worse and that that actually is vulnerable and hard, right? Even if it looks like someone isn't doing a ton of emotional work, it is entirely possible that they are. That by not screaming, like, well, you just packed and died! Yeah. That actually there's, like, a ton of self-regulation and... Even if it's not about care for the Dursleys, which I don't think it is, right? He's managing his own experience. But, like...

You know, he knows that there's going to be a transfer that's pretty potentially deadly, right? If things go wrong. That's why you see him also be agitated when he's like, wait, there's a change of plan. Why isn't Mad-Eye coming? Right. He's unsettled in this conversation that we see at the end of the chapter as well. So there's so much going on for him that's really not about the Dursleys that, yeah, the fact that he isn't escalating, I think is credit to him. Yeah.

It's now time for us to dive into the text with one of our sacred reading practices. And Vanessa, I am going to read you a passage and invite you in the tradition of sacred imagination to close your eyes if you're comfortable and notice if you can the sensations, the sights, the smells, the sounds, the touches, the tastes of what's happening in this chapter. And then we'll see if we find more depth about what's going on in this moment.

"'Ready, Diddy?' asked Aunt Petunia, fussily checking the clasp of her handbag so as to avoid looking at Harry altogether. Dudley did not answer, but stood there with his mouth slightly ajar, reminding Harry a little of the giant, Grawp. "'Come along, then,' said Uncle Vernon. He had already reached the living-room door when Dudley mumbled. "'I don't understand.' "'What don't you understand, Popkin?' asked Aunt Petunia, looking up at her son."

Dudley raised a large ham-like hand to point at Harry. Why isn't he coming with us?

Uncle Vernon and Aunt Petunia froze where they stood, staring at Dudley as though he had just expressed a desire to become a ballerina. "'What?' said Uncle Vernon loudly. "'Why isn't he coming too?' asked Dudley. "'Well, he doesn't want to,' said Uncle Vernon, turning to glare at Harry and adding, "'You don't want to, do you?' "'Not in the slightest,' said Harry. "'There you are,' Uncle Vernon told Dudley. "'Now come on, we're off.' He marched out of the room."

They heard the front door open, but Dudley did not move. And after a few faltering steps, Aunt Petunia stopped too. What now? Barked Uncle Vernon, reappearing in the doorway. It seemed that Dudley was struggling with concepts too difficult to put into words. And after several moments of apparently painful internal struggle, he said, but where is he going to go? So Vanessa, what did you notice? Who were you? Yeah, what sensations did you have? I was Petunia. Hmm.

Why do I always feel a temperature? I was like sweaty from like packing and unpacking and, you know, like grimy, disorganized. And that feeling where you can't look at someone. What was so evocative to me was playing with the clasp of her purse. Wow. You know, like I would literally rather like

pick at the hinge of this and have it unclick and click. I had a very specific purse image come to my mind of, you know, like this kind of metal clasp that I will not be able to articulate. And I could feel Harry looking at me and expecting me to look at him. And then as soon as Dudley talks, I'm like, ah, I can look at him. Like that's a safe person to look at. But yeah, I was just like, I was hot.

And there are like people in my house and I just like, I'm kind of short of breath and I will not make eye contact with this child because God only knows, right? Like this, I don't know. It's like fear and shame, right? Yeah.

Oh, that's so evocative. That purse I'm seeing is one of those kind of like leather ones with just the metal clasp at the top, you know, soft. Yes, exactly. That is my purse. That's the purse I'm thinking of. Yeah.

Oh, that's so powerful. And the relief when Dudley talks of an excuse to look somewhere else. Right? Like, where's he going? Like, what? Like, anything to be like, you know, when you're stuck at a party or something, talking to someone, and then you're like, they need me in the kitchen. Right? Like, I

You have to pee, like some excuse gets, you know, she's just like, "I go, okay." I hear the doorbell. Yeah, exactly. "I get to go." Oh, God, it makes me sweat now. I'm like, "Oh, the awkwardness." It's funny because my experience was really sonic. Like, what I heard was Vernon's voice and the way in which that shouting and that kind of

domineering in that house has been the story of this entire seven years that we've seen this family from afar and just that both Petunia and Dudley are living kind of under that constant you know boy and and what else does he say well he doesn't you know what he's just he's just loud he's screaming he's he's and he's taking charge in this way that leaves no room for anyone else's reality or curiosity or interest or ideas like it's it's just it's

He's just a bully. Like that's, I guess he's a bully in sound as well as in person and just a really, really unpleasant man. And I know how important it is for us that we read compassionately, that we read with understanding, but it's in these kind of moments that you're reminded of just what an absolute nasty person he is.

Yeah, Casper, what you're saying reminds me of, and I wish I remembered exactly what, but like when we meet the character of Stanley Kowalski in The Streetcar Named Desire, right? This like famously abusive character. Like the first several words he says are just like kind of grunts, right?

Yeah. Just like one word and loud, right? And that's Vernon in this chapter. It's just these like grunts and loud. And you get the sense of like, of course Petunia doesn't really want to look up and only wants to look at Dudley, right? Like Dudley isn't going to yell at her. Yeah. And the other thing that suddenly as you were talking occurred to me about Petunia is

is she's just cleaned this whole house because she's not going to leave it dirty. And so suddenly I also had a smell of cleaning solvent, of like lemon, like pine salt. Like you know that she scrubbed this place to within an inch of its life before she left in order to have some sense of control. So it's like chemically and I'm sweaty and my husband is yelling and

And there are strangers in my house and I'm a bad person. It nearly makes one want to go to a boarding school that has no pedagogical skill set at all just to get out of the house. Yeah. Well, thank you for stepping into this sacred imagination with me, Vanessa. And I'm kind of glad we get to leave too. Yes, let's go with Hestia.

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and Princess Polly, all under $100. From trending sneakers to beauty must-haves, we've curated the styles you'll wear on repeat this spring. Free shipping, free returns, and in-store pickup make it easier than ever. Shop now in stores and at Nordstrom.com. This week's voicemail is from Emily.

Hi, Sacred Text team. My name is Emily and my pronouns are she, her. I have listened since late 2016 and I love having you along for my walks and road trips and kitchen cleaning marathons. I don't have a baby or a new BFF as a result of the show, but I want to thank you for reading the names of our lost loved ones. I remember that in the beginning, I would always pause and listen carefully to hear about all the people who had died of COVID and it felt like a really important acknowledgement of

My own 97-year-old grandma died in September of 2022. It was devastating. A couple of days after she passed, I got your email newsletter with the link to send memorials. And so I sent mine in and I still remember where I was and what I was doing. Actually, I was in the bathroom clipping my toenails when Matt read her name on the podcast four months later on the episode that he did with Margaret about intelligence. And I

And I think that when you're grieving, it feels so important to let everyone know about the person that you love. So thank you for letting so many of us do that. And speaking of Matt, I want to thank him for introducing me to the blessing. Let light perpetual shine upon them. When my grandma died, my mom and her siblings asked me to be one of the two main speakers at her funeral. And as I wrote my remarks, I of course had to figure out how to end. So my conclusion, and I kept thinking about let light perpetual shine.

I didn't actually use those words, but I did talk about the idea of light and it felt like a good way to be inclusive of both my grandma's spiritual beliefs and my own. Giving this talk is one of the things that I am most proud of. And lots of people have told me how meaningful it was for them and that my conclusion where I talked about light and tied it in with some of my other memories of Gran was a part of what made it resonate.

So thank you again to Matt, Vanessa, and Casper for sharing so much of your lives and traditions with all of us. I'm so grateful for everything I've learned about spiritual life, whether inside or out of congregations from you. Also, thanks to everyone else who has made this podcast what it is. Love you all so much. Oh, Emily, you're giving me goosebumps. Why did we ask for these voicemails? I cry every week. Okay.

That's beautiful. And I also love the vision of you clipping your toenails while you had us read your gran's name. And I really hope she had great nails. I'm hoping there's a connection there. But more than that, I'm so glad we got to join you in honoring her life. And my goodness, what a beautiful testament you must have offered to all those people who loved her to speak so, you know, compellingly and with such depth about her life and the light that shone in her life and continues to shine from her life into yours. So

thank you for sharing that it's wonderful to hear

I just have to say that I also love that you took something that you heard here and changed it. The idea for doing the COVID memorials is I stole it from Grey's Anatomy. At the end of an episode of Grey's Anatomy, they listed every person of color who had died of COVID up until that point. They were making a point about the statistics of how disproportionately it was people of color in the United States who were passing away instead of white people. And

I was so moved by that. And I was like, oh, there are no public spaces to be grieving all of the people who are dying because we can't gather. And that is why we started the memorial section. So I just...

I want to encourage people to take inspiration from wherever they find it. I don't think Grey's Anatomy is a silly place to find inspiration, but I know some other people might. And so, yeah, please keep adapting these practices, like steal them, take them, use them. They are here to serve us. We are not here to serve them. Thanks again, Emily.

It's now time for us to remember members of our community who have been loved and lost. And this week we remember Roger Evans, 70, a friend, free spirit, and a guardian of cats. Tom Tower, who is 75, and love personified. Cheryl, who was 60, a loving aunt and mother and a great warrior. And Judith Giller-Linewall, who was 30 years old, a beloved daughter, sister, friend, and community member. May their memories be a blessing.

And Vanessa, it's time for us to offer a blessing as well. Who would you like to bless from this chapter? I want to bless Petunia as a reminder to myself to do the hard, awkward thing. We don't just bless characters when they nail it. We like to bless them also when they fall short. She is falling short in this moment. There is a child standing in front of her who she cannot gather the strength to be kind to. And I know that there are moments in my life where

It takes a lot of strength to be kind, and I want to fight in those moments. I just spent the last month arguing with Blue Cross Blue Shield. And each representative, right? I was like, I know it's not you, right? But it's really hard.

to like conjure kindness here and I want to hold Petunia as a talisman of how important it is to try to do that so a blessing for Petunia and for myself in the moments where I fall short and I want to call us all in on trying our best

What about you? Who would you like to bless, Casper? I want to bless Hestia. We didn't talk too much about the magical escorts who are there to kind of whisk the Dursleys away, Daedalus Diggle and Hestia Jones. And Hestia has this amazing moment towards the moment where everyone is going to say goodbye in which she says, you know, basically, maybe we should leave the room, Daedalus, to give, you know, this family some time to say goodbye because it's probably going to be emotional. Of course, she's dead wrong in reading this.

the room, but she's, she is dead right in creating space for other people to be vulnerable. And sometimes vulnerability demands privacy or at least space, you know, and watching that goodbye isn't her job. She's there to escort them to safety. And so that the self knowledge to be like, Oh, that's not for me. Let me, let me create some space. Let me step outside. I just thought it was a really beautiful, subtle skill in knowing how to navigate, uh,

you know, social situations. And so I think sometimes I get overenthusiastic of like, yeah, let's all cry together. And it's like, well, actually, maybe not my job. Let's step outside, Casper. Just watch the sky. So yeah, blessing for Hestia. And Hestia is so brave in this chapter, right? She's like, no, that's not enough. And even though it didn't effectively call the Dursleys in, I don't know, it still might mean something to Harry to just like be witnessed.

And be like, oh, right. You see that too? It's weird, right? Like I'm someone who needs that external validation because I'm sensitive. So I'm like, I was hurt by that. Was that actually hurtful? And we'll look around. And so Hestia being like, yes, babe, that was hurtful. I'd be like, thank you. So I love Hestia in this chapter. Yeah. Next week, we're reading Book 7, Chapter 4, The Seven Potters through the theme of outrage.

Just a few reminders before we give our thanks. You can always subscribe for ad-free episodes. It's an amazing way to support the show on Apple Podcasts or by going to our Patreon at patreon.com slash Harry Potter Sacred Text. This episode was a Not Sorry production, a feminist production company. We are sponsored by the Fetzer Institute. Our executive producer is Vanessa Zoltan. We're edited and produced by AJ Ramos. Our music is by Ivan Paisao and Nick Boll and we're distributed by Acast. Thank you.

Thanks to our wonderful Minerva's Book Club members, Avril, Amanda C., Amanda S., Amber, Amy, Ashley, Danny, Emil, Esther, Gregoire, Casey, Kelsey, Kriti, Kyle, Marina, Nadia, and Sita. And thanks also to Emily for this week's voicemail, Ariana Nettleman, Julia Argi, Nikki Zolton, Courtney Brown, Matt Potts, Anissa Ahmed, Danny Langley, and of course, Stephanie Purcell. We'll be with you back next week. Thanks for listening, everyone. Bye. Bye.

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