Glauc Talk: Should Med Students Have to Work Overnight?
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Hello, everybody. Welcome to Knock Knock High with the Glockenfleckens. I am Dr. Glockenflecken, also known as Will Flannery. I am Lady Glockenflecken, also known as Kristen Flannery. Former all-star cheerleader. Very relevant to this conversation. From Dublin, Texas. We were just talking about proper cheerleading form. You know, Texas is a cheerleading country, so don't make fun. When you say you were an all-star cheerleader...

You mean like among, like who was in competition for being an all-star? Other cheerleaders. From your town?

No, so there's this, I really don't want to get into all this because it's been so long. I'm going to get some details wrong. It's okay. But there's like an organization that. A regulatory body. I guess. For cheerleaders. Yes. And they go around and they would come in in the summers and like teach us the next season's like choreography and cheers and chants and whatnot. And so. They really saw your talent. Yes. Yes.

I was a very good cheerleader. I believe it. I mean, you were good in gymnastics. Yeah. You were very, you know. Could do the splits really well. I had very good form. And you were the one that... And I had power. That's where everybody always underestimated me because I was tiny. Yeah. But my voice had power. My...

tumbling was power like it was just powerhouse you were you were also the one that got flung up into the air no they tried to they wanted me to be the flyer you're like the tiny yeah that's why they wanted me to but I was like too scared and shaky really at the time I had like

I didn't realize that I did, but I had blood sugar issues. And so I was shaky like all the time. And then I, on top of that, I was nervous to, but you weren't flinging other people up. No, I was tumbling in front. Oh, I see. I was the star tumbler instead flips and turns, which to be fair, like other people can be the flyers. And I really was the best tumbler. So that made sense. Yeah.

Do you still have any documentation of your wins? Of your accomplishments? This was before the days that everything was documented on photo or video. You don't have a plaque? I might have like a star on my letter jacket or something. Oh, we still have the letter jacket. Somewhere. My mom kept it. I know exactly where it is. It's in our garage. Is it down there? Yeah. Yeah.

We could check. I don't know. I'm going to wear it next episode. I'm going to show up to our studio. This is how small I was. Okay. Like I'm not exaggerating. It was a baby's jacket. Our 10 year old. Yeah. Put on my old cheerleading, my varsity cheerleading uniform. Okay. For the Superbowl. Yeah. She's 10. Yeah. And she, it fit her like a glove. Yes. It fit her perfectly.

I was freakishly tiny. You were like four foot nine as a high schooler? Good question. Maybe not quite that short, but I was also just like a stick. Yeah, you were just very, very, very slight. Yes, slight is a good word for it. All right. Well, now we've gone through your history. This is not, this is the lockdown. You brought it up. Jeez. Well, I love that I can still learn things about you.

All these years later. Yeah, yeah. Wrapped in a mystery. I feel like there's just, you know, so many things. You don't know me. You know, I was in Boy Scouts. Were you forced to be? Yeah. Yeah, there it is. I was a Cub Scout. Oh, Cub Scouts, yeah. Wasn't that the same thing? That's for like the little guys. Yeah, I was like in elementary school and I think maybe even junior high. I never got up to Wee Blow. I believe it.

I was not. I didn't have enough survival skills. No, you did not. I did the Pinewood Derby. Oh, the cars? The cars. Yeah, that was popular back in the day. What if they still do that? I think there's a big scandal in our troop because somebody won but had their dad do all the work in building the car. Oh, yeah. And word got out. And that was...

That was scandalous in the Cub Scout community down there, Southeast Texas. All right. Well, I did not plan on going into the whole thing about all this. I do have a life update for you. And the listener slash viewer, I talked several weeks back about

probably like two months ago now, about how I'm compensating our daughter for basketball. Monetary compensation. So she was in rec basketball last year as a third grader and just had trouble with motivation.

Just didn't want to, I don't know. I could tell she wasn't trying real hard. Yeah. So this season is the first time I've done this as a fourth grade. I was like, okay, if you're going to do this, this, and this, I will pay you X amount for each thing. So like rebounds, rebounds, assists, points, you know, whatever goals, uh, uh, or field goals and, and field goals. They call them field goals. What? You shoot, uh, you, you make a basket from the field. It's a field goal.

Yeah. No, it's not. FG. You think I don't know? No, I think you're pulling my chain. Like you make a field goal. Field goals aren't football. Yes. But field goal. I've played basketball. I never heard that term. Look at a box score.

On a basketball game. And you know what you'll see? A box score? Is that what you said? Okay, you don't even know what a box score is. No, I don't. I'm not into like the... Anyway, a basket from the field. Stats of it all. From the field, from the court. Okay. It's a field goal. As opposed to what? A free throw? Like they have field goals, they have field goal attempts.

And that's your field goal percentage. Okay. It's a thing. Is a layup considered a field goal? Yeah. What is not considered a field goal? They're all field goals. Okay, well, that's stupid. Why have a name? Anyway. Moving on. So I didn't know how popular this would be with our daughter. Mm-hmm.

But she has recently just like gone bananas with effort. Yeah. With filling up the stat sheet. Mm-hmm. And so far, over the course of the season, which is like eight weeks, like eight games or something, and we have one week left, I am currently out $58. Yeah. So...

And it's like 50 cents a rebound. I give her like a one, a dollar per bucket. Yes. Do you understand? Her field goal. Do you understand the word bucket? Yes. Why are there so many names for it? They're just like slang terms. It's just like, you know, colloquialisms. Okay. Anyway.

I did not expect it to. So anyway. Yeah. Got to put your money where your mouth is now. I'm going to have to pay out. It's going to be. And you know what? This last week has two games as a tournament. I know. I know. God. She can get up to 100. Don't tell her she'll try to make it. I know. And I told her, like, if you score five buckets, you'll get like a $20 bonus. Oh. And then this past week she went out and scored seven. Yep.

She sure did. Speaking of power, she has power. She does. She's a chucker. She's a chucker. We got to work on that. But she can shoot it from further out than any of her teammates. She's strong. Yeah, she's strong and she can run fast. And she's pretty tall. I've been teaching soft touch around the rim. Like layups, we're trying to like, it's okay, take it back a notch. But anyway, the point is,

Bribery works. Bribery works. It really does. If you have a kid that's motivated by bribery, which I think pretty much all kids are to a certain extent. And now she's a professional basketball player. I was going to say, like, to what end? Like, why? What lesson will she have learned by this bribery? You know, I don't know. Like, I don't know.

Or is it just for your own ego? No, no, it's not at all. Like I, I want, I wanted her to, to, cause I know that she has like talent. Yeah. Like she's athletic. Right. And I want her to be able to see what happens if she applies herself. Yeah. And not only has she like made the money, but I have heard no complaining from her. That's true.

All season. Yeah. Which is a huge, um, like last season, halfway through your life so far, halfway through, it was like dragging her feet, crawling on the ground. She didn't want to go to practice. But now it's like, it's just get money for practices, but she enjoys going to practice. So I think it's like, it's,

tricked her brain into like enjoying basketball. Yeah. Certainly the money helps. And after each game, she's like, how much money did I make? That's the first thing she says. How much money did I make? God. But she's also out with me. She asked me to go out and practice and shoot baskets with her. Like she's, she's showing interest. Yeah. She's putting more effort into it. She's putting more effort into it. Not just in the games. So, I mean, yeah, there's some lessons that are like, you know, if you, if you're,

Maybe it's like if you work hard enough, you'll make more money. I don't know if that's great to teach her anyway. I mean, there is something to be said for work ethic. Sure. But then like expecting money for doing anything. Right. That's kind of the backfire. The other day, I was like asked her to pick up something. She left a mess. She was like doing her nails or something. I told her to pick up. She was like, how much money are you going to give me? Yeah. Yeah.

And I was, I was, I had my best like astonishment face on. I was like, nothing. You don't get money for that. You just, you clean up after yourself, be a human being, be a member of this family, all that stuff. So it'll take some time, but we'll figure it out. We'll figure it out. All right. I have a quick healthcare news for you. Okay. This is great news. It is. Really good news. Elizabeth Holmes.

The disgraced CEO, former CEO of Theranos. Remember this story? Kind of, yeah. So Theranos, she raised defrauded investors and defrauded patients surrounding this company that I guess what she said, what she claimed was that

You could do like all this blood testing with a very small amount of blood, like a pinprick as opposed to vials and vials of blood, which would be a quote unquote game changer and change health care forever and all this stuff. She raised like $100 million or something, defrauded. It was all a scam. And she got sentenced to 11 years in prison. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals just upheld her conviction.

Okay. Great. All right. A scam artist off the streets. Yeah, there you go. Fantastic. Good. That's my health care news for you. Okay. That's it. That's all I got. So there's other stuff, but I thought that was interesting. Something we haven't talked about yet. Take a break from UnitedHealthcare for once. Yeah. Although there you go mentioning it again. You just can't quite break away. We're not going to go into it. All right. Just, you know, that's it. Maybe when she gets out of prison, they'll hire her.

Yeah, that might be, I think maybe part of her conviction is that she's not allowed to like lead a public company for X amount like ever. I don't know. But hey, I wouldn't, maybe as a medical director. Right. They'll hire anybody for medical. You don't even have to practice medicine anymore. These days you can even be head of the HHS. I mean, who knows? You could do anything. Sky's the limit.

That's okay. That's all I got for healthcare news. Do you have any healthcare news updates? You try to stay away from healthcare news. I try to stay away from news in general. You get enough of it from me. Yeah, I do. You hear about it. If it's important enough, that's the thing. If it is important enough, I hear about it in other ways. Like just getting it on the, on like TV or social media is just depressing. I don't like it. Who watches TV news anymore? My parents.

Can't tell you the last time. Sometimes they fall asleep in front of the TV and when they do, I go in there and I turn it way down. Do you remember the, because they used to be all, like when we were kids, that was the only way you could get news. Do you remember your local news anchors?

Well, my local, quote, local news anchors were from two hours away. Right. But do you remember, like, other names indelibly ascribed into your memory? I bet if I heard it again, it would trigger it. But I can't just come up with it right now. The only one I remember was Dominique Soxa. Well, that's a memorable name. From Houston. Yeah. Because she was super hot. That's predictable. Yeah.

Like that's like a thing in Houston. Oh, okay. Yeah. Like everybody knows Dominique Soxa. Right. She's like Fox News anchor. Yeah. For like local news. Well, there's the one and only thing that you probably have in common with Beyonce. I bet you both know who that is. Dominique Soxa? Yeah. She grew up in Houston. Yeah. About the same time. Is she a millennial? Yeah. She's a millennial. Yeah. Dang. Yeah. That makes me feel old. Right.

I'm pretty sure she is. You want me to look it up? No, that's okay. Okay. Well, someone will tell me if I'm wrong. They always do. That sounds about right. That sounds about right. I'm sure she's probably like late 30s, early 40s. No, I think she's in her early 40s. Early 40s. Yeah, 1981. Oh, the elder millennial. Yeah, like the eldest. I think that's... Queen millennial. Right on the border, or some people would call them Gen X. Yeah. All right. Let's take a break. Then we'll come back and I have a debate. Okay. Okay.

And then we're going to choose a crew to an Ocean's Eleven style crew out of my characters. That's on the agenda for today. That's going to be toward the end of the episode. But we'll come back. Does Dominic Sox get to be the lady? We'll come back and I'll bring up an ongoing debate on social media. Okay.

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Your friend and jeweler. So this is a thing that comes up like probably every like six months on like the medicine channels, like healthcare related. Usually it's physicians, really. And it's like one of those things, like we are really good at...

I mean, at distracting ourselves from like actual important things to like debate. So we like come up with these things that really like honestly don't really matter. I think they don't really matter that much. You guys like to do a lot of like policing each other. Yeah, that's exactly right. We love to police each other. Yeah. I wonder what that's about. Like, I don't know what that is. We're all we love like it like we're our own worst enemy. Yeah. Try.

Try to get all physicians to come together on one particular thing. And it's like impossible. Even United Healthcare? United Healthcare is like the one thing that unites us all. But like the day-to-day, like how to make a doctor, like especially opinions about medical education and resident training, it's all over the place. So this one is, which I got swept into like most recently. I just like,

posted one thing, but, um, it was, it's about whether or not med students should be doing night shifts. So Brian Carmody, somebody, he's a pediatric nephrologist who I, we've never had him on the podcast. We need to get him on, but he's, I, I, I, I quote him in when we have these discussions, I think fairly frequently because he does a lot of work on like

trends in medical education he's talked a lot about like step scores and like you know he does a lot around the match like which specialties are getting more popular which are getting less popular stuff around is he kind of like img statistics yeah it's like statistics ish like it seems kind of like a hobby for him yeah um i don't know if like baseball yeah but he's really good he has a lot of like great insights um

I know he's on X. I mean, I followed him when he was on Twitter, when it was called Twitter. So he posted a thing that, a graph that was showing that the trend is a downward trend for med students requiring, or med schools requiring students to do overnight shifts on rotations. Okay.

Which is, it's like catnip. It's like you put something like that out there, oh, everyone's going to have an opinion, myself included. Yeah. Does it break down predictably in any way? No, it's just like generally, like...

It's been really a downward trend, I think, since work hour restrictions were instituted. I mean the debate. Does it break down by demographic or anything like that? What are the fractures? Like Gen X. Like age? Older millennial. When you were trained and what it was like when you were trained. Yes. Absolutely. So here's my thoughts. I'm going to give you my thoughts on it. And I'd love to know what your thoughts are. Okay.

So the arguments go like, okay, here's the argument that's like against making students like work. Usually it's like in the context of working 24 hour shifts that it doesn't, when you're that tired, you don't actually like learn things as opposed to residents who are, they're like workhorses. Like you got it.

The work has to be done overnight. Like someone's got to see patients. Someone's got to write the notes. Someone's got to do the consults. And often that's going to be a resident. So we're not talking about residency education. We're talking about med school. Well, and I will just point out, sure, someone has to work overnight, but then that means that that someone should be able to sleep in the day.

They shouldn't have to work overnight and in the day. So that's a whole different discussion on whether or not like anybody should be working 24 straight hours. Right. But when it comes to like meds, med students, you know, the argument against having them do like night shifts is like it doesn't it doesn't.

They're not learning anything. They're not learning anything. It's, it's, uh, it's not necessary for, for becoming a physician to learn how to practice medicine. Um, it's, there's just not as much value in it. And it's more of like a, of a, um, an abusive type thing. Like we're making them do this. They're not getting paid. They're paying, you know?

So that's the argument. And I'm not saying I endorse all of those arguments, but that's what you hear. Okay.

And the argument the other way around for like, yeah, med students should be working overnight is because like, well, that's half of medicine is happening at night. You see things at night that you don't see otherwise. You're up, you're working, you're seeing the work being done in a more resource poor type of environment. Wait, what do you see at night that you don't see otherwise?

Yeah. Well, that's, that's when I, it's not that you won't see like certain emergencies at night, but it has a different context. There's less help around. There's, um, it's more of a, a bare bones team. Uh, you're, you, you build a little bit different camaraderie with your, with your, with your coworkers. And, um, and so, um,

And it's just, if you're also doing nights, then there's just more time for you to experience things. Yeah, sure. That seems flawed, but okay. Those are all the arguments. Okay. All right. So here's my thought. I actually do think med students should be doing some night shifts. Okay. In my mind, there's no reason a med student needs to work more than like 14 straight hours. Mm-hmm.

Like, why? Because aren't they supposed to be, like, studying? Well, they've got to be studying. Exactly. They've got to be reading. They've got to be studying. They've got to be learning. They've got to be able to pass their exams. Right. All those things that residents, although they also have exams, there's a different focus for residents.

med students, it's more like understanding the medicine, understanding the pathophysiology, the knowledge, which I think you would get a lot more of that type of education during the day when you have all your attendings. At night, it's more flying by the seat of your pants. You're just trying to get the work done. And so I do think there's limited usefulness for a med student working at night, but I do think

They should be working a night just to see what a night shift is like. Yeah. What if you had like you had away rotations where you went? So what if you had like a night rotation? Just one rotation that you can experience all this. Well, that I'm saying is like, yeah. Okay. So let's, let's, let's make, let's have students work a night shift, work eight hours at night, but then give them the day off before and the day off after. Like why? Like they don't have to work 24 hours like a resident does. But,

To work at night, you see the process of a hospital and what that looks like at night. And in my opinion, and this is the point I made, I was like,

You can learn to understand what other specialties go through. So let's say a med student is going into internal medicine and they're on a surgery rotation. Have them do a night shift on surgery so that they know, oh, this is what it's like for a resident who's a surgical resident on a 24-hour shift. Maybe you'll be a little bit more compassionate.

toward that person whenever you're in attending, when you're a resident and you're consulting a surgical. So it just like helps us to understand each other better. Okay. I put that thought out there on, on X. Oh boy. And like, of course, nobody's talking about my point. It's like,

Now, hundreds of comments, and they're just going on their own. Well, this is what I think. This is what I think. Exactly. It's like I had to mute the whole thing, and this is why I don't really go on X anymore. Elon ruined it. He did, but that's neither here nor there. I'm just mad about it because it used to be fun. So anyway, I think students should be doing some work at night just to see what it's like. Sure.

But it doesn't have to be associated with like this. Yeah. It's like anything else. Why are we so extreme about it? Why does it have to be all or nothing? Like they're going to, they're going to do. There's a middle ground. They're going to do the sleep deprivation. They'll get there. They're going to do it in residency. Yeah. And that's the argument a lot of people say like, well, this is what medicine's like. You got to learn how to work. Yeah. Sleep deprived. That's what residency's for. Right. Like we're talking about med students. Also,

Why? Why do you have to learn how to work sleep deprived? Why do you all have to work sleep deprived? Because we're all short staff. We don't have enough doctors. Yeah, so let's fix that problem rather than argue about... Well, now we're like, this is only supposed to be like a 45-minute podcast, Kristen. Yes, these are all related. My point is like,

Like, let's just let them suffer when they're going to suffer. Right. Like, why move the suffering up? And it's not like they're going to get into residency and students are going to be like,

Oh, my God. No idea. Yeah. That they had to work this many hours. You see it. Like as a med student, you're seeing, you're watching everything. Right. Yeah. It's like you're a little kid watching their parents. Right. Like, you know. Stand in the corner and just watch what's happening. Yeah. You see what's happening. And so, like, the example I gave is that as a med student on a night shift during surgery.

I watched as this chief resident was operating all night and then fell asleep during the middle of a note at the computer. Yeah. Mid-sentence typing. Stop typing. I looked over. Her head's down. She's literally asleep.

Like that left an impression. I didn't need to do that. I don't need to be that person. I don't need to be that sleep deprived. Right. All that did was turn you away from surgery. Well, it's like either that's going to turn you away from surgery or you're going to be like, man, look how hard that person's working. Like, I want to do that job. I want to be operating all night. Are you? Is there anyone that's going to come to that conclusion? Crazy people, Kristen. Yes.

I don't know. I don't know. It certainly left an impression on me. And that's not the case everywhere that, I mean, maybe that maybe she had narcolepsy. I don't know. But anyway, I don't know. It's just like a, and it's an annoying topic because like, what's, I don't know. It's why are we arguing about medical, like med student education? Like they're paying to be there. Let's like give them the tools to like learn how to be a doctor. I don't think that includes making them stay up all night.

Yeah, I agree with you. People can disagree with me. You can tell us what you think personally. I've been preaching it to you since you were in med school of why do these people treat you guys this way? And aren't you supposed to be the ones that know how the body needs to be healthiest? Like, why are you doing these things to your bodies? You're going to get it in residency. You don't need it in med school. I would argue you don't even need to do it at all.

Now that we can disagree about a little bit because I, you know. In the way that it is currently done. Of course, someone has to be working at nights. Yeah. But again, name other professions. There's not very many where they expect their workers to be there day and night without breaks in between. I know. Even pilots have hour limit. I mean, that's why we have workout restrictions. So it has gotten better. Yeah. But it's, you know.

Like people's lives are in your hands. I don't want you to be sleep deprived. Whether or not those work hour restrictions are followed. Yeah. It's another thing. I don't know. I think it's just, I get that there are like logistical issues that result in this. That's the issue. But again, let's focus on fixing the logistical issues rather than just arguing with each other about who needs to have it the worst.

We're so good at that. You love it. We are so good at distracting ourselves in that way. And you turn on each other rather than uniting against the actual problem. It drives me crazy. Oh, yeah. Oh, we're like we could. It's whatever the opposite of a Nobel Peace Prize is. That's what we would get as a physician community. But like imagine if you all came together and said, no, no, it doesn't need to be that way. Here we are working in medicine. We can't all agree.

But you can agree that these issues are not as important as what is causing them to begin with. Yes. Ideally, we would see that what the underlying issue is that's leading to us having this conversation and then work to make the changes necessary to make our lives better. But that would require all physicians thinking outside of themselves. We're not good at that, Kristen. Mm-hmm.

Well, I'm going to hold my tongue right now. We struggle. We struggle with that. I'm just saying. No, I'm making physicians sound like they're all selfish pricks and just some of them are, but it's.

I think there's, I don't honestly know why. Because you see this, it's so hard to get us to come together. To unite for certain causes and change in healthcare. Yeah, and that is such a shame. Because if you did all come together, imagine the power you would have to make change for the better. I think that's what the AMA is supposed to do. But that's a whole other thing. Like no one can agree on

how best to do that. What change to make. What change to make. And obviously this gets into politics because it's, you know, there's a wide range of politics. Right. Among physicians and among different specialties. Well, and even just in different states. Like physicians in one state have different limitations than physicians in others. Yeah.

Well, we're not going to solve it today. Any other arguments you want to hear about from the physicians like to complain about to each other? I just want to know, you know, what is more interesting to me about this is like clearly that argument, you said it happened on X. But the med Twitter community has really dispersed. Right.

A lot of them are on Blue Sky. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm just curious about like, hey, where are we going, guys? Like, where's Med Twitter these days? I don't I think it got all split up. It's all divided among all the different platforms now.

One, one other, I think one thing that tipped off this particular argument was that there was like a, a, a med student. I think it was a med student or maybe an intern that like said something about how, you know, med students shouldn't be, you know, compelled or, or forced to like work overnight. And that's usually how these things start. It's like,

Somebody with just who's in it, but maybe doesn't have like the years of experience. Yeah. Yeah. And then people take offense to that. Then the more advanced people want to say, let me tell you, little man. That's exactly. Little girl. That is exactly right. Yeah. And so that's also a problem. Yeah. Because you guys are supposed to be mentoring them. Correct. We don't. I don't think we do a great job.

Of sticking up for the next generation, trying to make things better for the people that are coming up after. Yeah. You're passing on a lot of trauma. Well, that's just love intergenerational trauma. Yeah. There's still, there's still way too much. Like this is what's hard for me. It needs to be just as hard for you. Yeah.

Because if it's not just as hard for them, the next group, then why did you have to do it? Then it makes you face your own trauma in a different way. Like, oh, that wasn't necessary. And that was really bad that that happened to me. And now I don't know what to do with those feelings. So I'm just going to pass them on. Not great. Nope.

All right. Let's take one more break. Well, we're real uplifting today. Well, I got something fun next. All right. So we'll finish up on a high note. Let's take one more quick break. Daredevil is born again on Disney+. My name is Matthew Murdoch. I'm a lawyer. Exactly what kind of a lawyer are you?

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All right, here we go. I thought what we could do is, you know, the movie Ocean's Eleven. Yeah. That's a millennial movie. Probably. Like our kids wouldn't know anything about Ocean's Eleven. So should I tell people what Ocean's Eleven is? Well, I think a lot of our listeners are millennials. It's a heist movie. It's a heist movie, right? Brad Pitt, George Clooney. I did see that one. There's a lot I didn't see. I did see that one. Okay, good. So what I thought would be fun to do is let's put together a team. Okay.

Made out of my characters. Okay. Based on like the Ocean's Eleven cast. Okay. Not the cast, but the... The roles. The roles. The characters. Yes, exactly. But fill them out with my characters. Okay. So first of all, I thought that like, what are we stealing? That's important. That's what I was just going to ask. Set the stage. So we are stealing documents. Okay. From the depths of UnitedHealthcare. Okay. Okay.

That would ruin the company for good. Like it would, it would make them go away. Like,

United Healthcare was responsible for the JFK assassination. I don't like whether or not that would actually do it. I don't know what it would take. I'm struggling to think of anything that would, if AI doing prior authorizations is not enough, like what is? Yeah. Or no, not prior authorizations, automatic claim denials. Right. I don't know. Well, let's assume there's some smoking gun. There's some smoking gun that if we stole it, no more United Healthcare. Okay. All right. So first the ringleader.

All right. I'm going to tell you what I, what I wait, let's say what the roles all are. I got to know what. All right. So we have the, we have like the, the mastermind behind the plan. So the, the, the George Clooney, the ringlet, then you have that person's number two, like the partner in crime. They're like right hand man. This is the Brad Pitt character. Um,

And then we have the financier. Okay. Person bankrolling this whole thing. Yep, yep. We have the inside man. There's always somebody that's kind of on the inside, right? Yeah. So Bernie Mac was the inside. He was the dealer at the... Yeah. So he's kind of like on the inside, right? We have like the dirty work guy, the mechanic. It's kind of like, you know...

The handy guy. Yeah, the handy guy. He's like going through the sewer if he needs to. He'll do whatever. He's just like, that's kind of what he does. He's an odd job type of person. We have electronics surveillance. Oh, sure. Okay. Explosives. Okay. I know who that is.

There was, then also there's like the, the athlete acrobat guy. Oh yeah. There's that, that Asian guy in the original Ocean's Eleven, right? He was like, he was a gymnast. Yeah. All right. So we have that, that, that role and then the pickpocket. Okay. All right. Who was the pickpocket? I can't remember. Matt Damon. Okay. What about the, there was a woman. What about Julia Roberts? That was Ocean's Twelve. Really? Yeah. Dang. Ocean's Eleven. She was just like the, she was the ex of. Yeah.

George Clooney. George Clooney. Yeah. She really didn't have a role. She was just there to be the... Token woman. Token woman. Token love interest. Okay. All right. So ringleader, here's what I got. Okay. Emergency medicine. Because you need somebody who's good at interacting with different specialties. Mm-hmm.

So they can manage everybody else. There's a general contractor. Yeah, right. So we're going to have emergency medicine who's in charge of everything. Their number two is going to be someone that works really well with emergency medicine, who's always there, who they can trust.

They're on the same wavelength. Okay. Is that ortho? Trauma surgery. Oh, of course. Yeah. Trauma surgery. They're always there, always hanging around. Yeah. They feed off of each other. They both have like the adrenaline thing going. Mm-hmm. But they do slightly different things. Anyway. Okay. All right. Trauma surgeon. Makes sense. The financier. So I went and Googled highest paid specialties. Yeah. Who do you think it is? Going to be a surgeon. Dermatologist. Oh, a surgeon. Yeah.

Ophthalmology. Neurosurgery. Oh, okay. But great. Yeah. Well, I was thinking of road, right? Radiology, ophthalmology, anesthesia. You're the only surgery in there. I'm not good enough with money to figure out how to finance this kind of thing. Okay. Ophthalmology's wife. We're going to say neurosurgeon. Okay. He's bankrolling this whole thing. All right. The inside man.

Come on. Inside man. Well, at UHC, that'd be Jimothy. Jimothy. Yeah. Jimothy's our guy. Yeah. He's feeding us the inside details, how to get into the building, where the documents are kept. Yep. Absolutely. Jimothy is in on it. He's the one that told us it was there to begin with.

That's right. He came to us with, like, you've got to do this. This is a smoking gun. This will get rid of, this will take care of UnitedHealthcare. All right. So the dirty work, the person who kind of just does everything, knows how to do everything. I got family medicine for that. Oh, yeah. Family medicine for sure. They're just all. Generalists. Yeah, generalists. They can do a little bit of everything. Also, people just want to, like, dump things on them. Sure.

They do crawl through the figurative sewers of healthcare. They do. Exactly. Exactly. Aw, poor family medicine. We love family. But they're also some of the most beloved. Like in the original Ocean's Eleven, that was Casey Affleck and his brother. Yeah. They would fight each other all the time. Yeah, but they were like endearing. They were fun. They were fun. Electronics, surveillance.

I mean, that'd be radiology with the cameras. You got it. Absolutely perfect. Explosives. See, I would think ortho for that because they want to just bank some stuff up. Because how do you make bombs? How do you make bombs? Chemistry. Oh, chemistry? Well, okay, so then anesthesia. Anesthesia. Yeah. Chemicals. You don't think ortho would like to blow things up? They would love to, but they're, I don't,

You don't see them making them? I don't think that. I don't see them making them. Like, they'd love to explode the bombs. Yeah. Detonate the bombs. Okay, that's fair. But they're not going to, you know, they don't. They don't have the patience for that. They don't have the patience for that. But we do have the athlete acrobat. See, I would have put that as emergency probably, but. Have you ever seen a non, like, strong orthopedic surgeon?

Like they're always very physically capable. Let me counterpoint. Okay. You joke all the time about how they're huge. Got huge muscles. Yeah. This requires a tiny person. Well, I don't think it's not. Acrobat. Physically very strong. Okay, but. They don't have to have big muscles. There's a difference. You need agility as well. All right, so who would you recommend? And grace and precision to be an acrobat. Who would you recommend?

Who would I recommend? That actually sounds kind of like an ophthalmologist. Maybe. At least for the hands. The rest of you, no. You do plastic surgery. Plastics, okay. Plastics would be a good option. Yeah. Because you need somebody who is both things. Who is strong, but also all those other things. Okay. Maybe OB. OB-GYN? Yeah. I could see that. It's a good idea. And then finally, we have the pickpocket.

Pig pocket. Jonathan. Hospital admin. Oh. So here's what I wonder. There's surprise. It was a surprise edition of the cast. They come in. They come on screen. You're like, whoa, admin's a part of this crew? Yeah. They're turning over a new leaf, maybe? No, they're stealing things. But then that's the person that's going to double cross them later. Mm-hmm. So got it all in the head. That makes sense. That makes sense. So then I guess that leaves Jonathan as...

the treasure that you are going in to extract. The smoking gun. Oh, Jonathan's the smoking gun. who knows all the things. Maybe. We gotta find something for Jonathan. We gotta find something for Jonathan. Maybe he comes in in the sequel. He's Julia Roach. He's the love interest. Jonathan.

We could go a lot of different directions with, we could get like some of the subspecialty internal medicine. Yeah. Intensivist. But internal medicine doesn't, intensivist maybe, but like hospitalists, they, I don't think they'd be good for this because you got to think fast. You got to act quickly. Tread carefully.

What are you saying? Oh, no. And hospitalists, they're great at thinking. Like, they're the best thinkers out there. But they don't think fast. Oh, okay. Because they want to consider it from all angles. Yeah. They don't act quickly. Okay. They're rounding for four hours. Right. Like, you can't just sit there and think about how they're going to do it for that long. Is internal medicine and hospitalists, are those? Yeah.

It's synonymous. Internal medicine is... I thought you could be a hospitalist of any, or not any, but many. No, when you say hospitalist, it's basically like a general internal medicine that works in a hospital, that does hospital medicine. Okay. So they're kind of like, it's almost like a square is a rectangle. Yeah. So internal medicine encompasses...

all the different subspecialties within internal medicine hospitalist is specifically like general internal medicine okay not a subspecialist that's that's my what i think of when i think of hospitals so anyway that's my team what do you think you think we'll succeed i i think it's good yeah okay good shot although we do have uh a disagreement on we we had or you put ortho i put ob

Yeah. For the athlete acrobat, which if we're not doing ortho for that, he does need a job. So you have to think about, think about that one. All right. You guys let us know if you have any changes that you'd make to that. I think, I think he's the one blowing up the stuff. He gets the bomb after anesthesia makes it. He. So it's a tag team situation. He places the bomb. I guess. Or he pushes the button. He gets to, ortho gets to push the button. Yeah. Yeah.

There's no specialty I can think of that is chaotic. Ortho is the... What's the thing? Also, anesthesia, they work really well in a very chaotic environment, like explosive situations. So then ortho is just the thug. He's the watch out guy that knocks people over the head if they get too close. Oh, he's the muscle? Yeah, he's the muscle. He's the muscle. Yeah. But that's not like...

Like, in these storylines, it's UHC that would have the muscle that you got to take out. And Ortho's not the bad guy. True. So I don't know. I don't know how Ortho exactly would fit. I mean, you don't have muscle of your own if you're the, like, the guy sitting in the truck with the computers. Like, they don't need a lookout guy? No, because...

Yeah, see? Maybe, but I don't know. You don't really see that because they're trying to be stealthy. They're not trying to have like big giant muscly guys out. Well, you gotta be stealthy. Sure. I can tell you haven't seen that many heist videos, heist movies. I think it's an oversight is all. I think in real life you would need some muscle. How much money is this making? Oh, five bucks. I guess the question is, are all these characters my face?

I mean. Because then probably not that much money. Exactly. I don't need anybody that could watch me for two straight hours. Let me tell you. Like 90 seconds is plenty. At least based on social media. Yeah. Well, you've never made it longer, so you don't know. We should do this for other types of movies. We could do like a horror movie. Ooh. Scream. Yeah. Like who dies first and what ways do they die. Right. You could do it for all kinds of different movies. Oh, yeah.

All right. That's our show. That's Glock Talk for today. Thank you all for listening. Let us know what your thoughts are. If you have any suggestions or additions to our heist cast, we'd love to hear those. You can email us, knockknockhigh at human-content.com. Hang out with us and our Human Content Podcast family over on Instagram and TikTok at humancontentpods.com.

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Our music is by Omer Bensfi. To learn about our Knock Knock Highs, program disclaimers, ethics policies, submission verification, and licensing terms, and oh yeah, the HIPAA release terms. Don't miss those. Go to Glockenflecken.com or reach out to us, Knock Knock High at human-content.com with questions, concerns, or any fun medical puns you might have. Knock Knock High is a human content production. Knock Knock, goodbye. Hey, Kristen. What's up? You know what character people like the most? Easily Jonathan. Yeah.

Yeah, 100%. Everybody loves Jonathan. Everybody wants a Jonathan as part of their healthcare team. Yeah, who wouldn't? Well, I can't give you Jonathan. Well, that's too bad. I can give you Microsoft Dragon Copilot. Okay, well, that might be even better. This is your AI assistant for clinical workflow. It's incredible. It helps to streamline documentation, which is one of the hardest parts of being a physician these days. Yeah. It allows you to automatically convert conversations into specialty-specific newsletters.

That's pretty cool. It really is. You can customize commands and templates, and it also helps you to summarize notes and evidence. And it just makes your job so much easier by taking away some of that administrative burden. Yeah. To learn more about how Microsoft Dragon Copilot can work for you, visit aka.ms slash knock, knock, hi. Again, that's aka.ms slash knock, knock, hi.

Knock, knock, hi.