The Poop Question GI Doctors Are Tired of Hearing with Dr. Kaveh Hoda
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Today's episode is brought to you by Microsoft Dragon Copilot, your AI assistant for clinical workflow. To learn more about how Dragon Copilot can transform the way you work, stick around after the episode or visit aka.ms slash knock, knock, hi. That's aka.ms slash knock, knock, hi. Hey, Will. Hey, what's up? I've been thinking, the US healthcare system, it needs some improvement. Yeah.

Yeah, it's, it's, there's room for improvement. Yeah. It's a confusing, scary place for everybody involved. Absolutely. Physicians, families, patients, everybody. Everybody. And I've experienced it from both sides, right? I'm a physician. I've also been a patient. So I wanted to use my platform to give people practical education, really the only way that I know how.

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Knock, knock, hi. Hey, everybody. Welcome to Knock, Knock, Hi with the Glockenfleckens. Over here we have Kristen Flannery, also known as Lady Glockenflecken. Yes, and you are Will Flannery, also known as Dr. Glockenflecken. Did you think of a different... You said it on Lady. Uh-huh.

Is there, is there like, did you have a few options, things you were trying to decide between? This was a long time ago and I never thought it would turn into an actual thing. So it was just meant to be a joke. Yes. Because A, I am, there, there is a lady. Right. Right. Of the couple, but also it

it felt like a title, right? Cause I don't have doctor or something. So I needed a title to go along with Dr. Glockenflecken. You didn't want to be Mrs. Glockenflecken. I mean, technically I could be master, but nobody uses that. And it's got some negative connotations that I would want to avoid. Yeah. Master Glockenflecken would have been a bad business move. Yes. Right. So, you know, settled on lady. It felt, uh, it felt right. Good. I,

I'm excited about our guest today. Me too. I always love hanging out with him. Kaveh Hoda of the House of Pod fame. Right. Great podcast. Really good podcast. He was made to be a podcaster. I feel like, at least for me...

What are you all doing listening to this podcast? Go listen to the podcasting world and just figured it on the fly. He's like, I just I'm very impressed by his podcast. Yeah. And he was one of the original medical podcasters. Yeah, there were only a few. He's been doing it for quite a bit longer than we have. And and so he's got a nice little array of of different eclectic.

Yes. He knows everybody. From the music world and the comedian world and everything. And we did talk about butts. Well, he's a gastroenterologist, so you can't avoid it. Yeah, absolutely. You can't get back. He did correct me. I felt bad. I did start talking about poop again. And he had to remind me that he is not a poop specialist. That's right. Very rarely. And I

There are other doctors that are more poop adjacent. Right. You know why I think everyone just like talks about poop? Because it's GI. Well, because I think that's what people are like.

afraid of, right? You don't want to go to a doctor and have a poop problem and you don't want to get a colonoscopy and do all that poop prep. Have you ever been to the doctor for a poop problem? No, I haven't. And I would like to keep it that way. We took our daughter there for a poop problem. Okay. Well, she probably won't appreciate you sharing that with the world.

Oh, and you know, 20 years when she listens to this episode, our kids will never listen to this podcast. No, they won't. Podcasting, will podcasting even be around in 20 years? That's a good question. What's going to be the next thing? We'll just circle back to radio. It's a big circle. It's like a podcast, but it's on the radio. Yeah, exactly. What is that?

All right. Well, let's just not delay this any longer. All right. Let's get it. It was a great conversation, a lot of fun. Here is Dr. Kaveh Hoda. Hey, Kristen. Yeah. I've been, you know, grossing you out about these Demodex mites, although I'm not sure why. They look, like, adorable. Well, these are cute, but it's the real ones that kind of freak me out a little bit. Yeah, but I have some new facts to share with you about Demodex. Oh, great. All right. These mites have likely lived with us for millions of years. Oh, wow.

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It's fun to gross you out, but we do have all of these. It's really common, but there is a prescription eye drop to help with these now. Okay. That probably excites you. That makes me feel better. Any way to get rid of them, right? That's right. All right. Sign me up. Visit MitesLoveLids to learn more about demodex blepharitis, which is the disease that these little guys cause. Sure. Again, that's M-I-T-E-S-L-I-D-E-X.

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All right, Kaveh, you're here. I am. I think you might be our first... You say this for every repeat guest. Oh. I'm trying to make it... Why did you have to tell me? I didn't need to know. I was trying to make him feel special. Yeah, but the audience would know. I was going to say he's our first repeat gastroenterologist. Okay, I think that is true. That's true.

I'll tell you. I hope. I was going to say, a friend of the pod here, Kaveh, and we've talked a few times. I've been on your podcast. And you're known to curse here and there. I can. You asked before we started recording, you're like, is it okay? I was like, just be yourself. Whatever. We can always, if it's something egregious, we'll just never invite you back. It's not a big deal. Fair.

But why would you want to invite me back? I mean, there's so many reasons for you to never invite me on the first place. But let me tell you, because like people always assume like I never curse. Right. Which is not true. Like I curse in real life. But just ask our children. But I'll tell you the reason why I don't and I've gotten in the habit of not cursing in my content is because one time I was at a conference and a doc came

came up to me with his two little children and they acted out one of my skits in front of me at this like nice dinner and I was like oh man I didn't realize like kids children are watching kids watch my content so ever since then I was like let me I'll tone I'll just you know censor myself a little bit but they probably don't listen to podcasts I'm

I mean, and there's so much worse stuff that they're probably being exposed to. I feel like it's true. I feel like you'd still, no matter what you did, whatever you did would still be probably the least worst thing that they're getting from YouTube. You're probably right. Probably. I got to ask, what is this? So for those of you who may be watching this on YouTube, what's the disc thing? There's a disc. Oh, this thing.

thing around thing in an old looking case it looks ancient is that I didn't I couldn't tell if you could see that from my so this is called the daft it's a Persian drum oh I don't think the sound will come across but it's like it looks like a great big tambourine but without the great big tambourine yeah okay I don't know if you can hear that yeah absolutely this is a podcast we can hear audio fairly well yeah but sometimes it cuts out like at least you know that's good

Anyway, so that's a dab. That's cool. And it's got little... Are those chains on the back? I can't tell. Yeah. It's like little rings. These are called frick-em-frack-ems. Frick-em-frack-ems. All right. I'm just making that up. I don't know. I'm going with it. They're called glock-em-fleck-ems? Yes. Yeah, they're called glock-em-fleck-ems all around. And they help this little texture for the sound. Yeah. That's really cool. Ooh.

What's the... Were you just hoping I would ask about that? Is that why you just set that up in the background? You just displayed it nicely. I have it always in the back with...

Waiting for somebody to ask and you're the first person to do it. This is also like, I don't, you're like me, maybe I don't have a studio space where I do my stuff. So this is a guest room slash music room. So my guitars are over here and all my instruments are here. So I do like recording stuff in this room as well for music. So all my stuff is here.

That's how you know so many musicians. You always have musicians that you're talking to frequently. Yeah, because he's a musician. So give me the back of the way. Are you in a band? I wouldn't call myself a musician. I consider myself an entertainer. Okay. But I have at times played a musical instrument. So I have been in a band. I've been in a band forever.

since college, since like the first year of college. I have to assume it's some kind of pun related to medicine. No, because up until recently, I was the only doctor in the band. Although the band, so I've been with a bunch of bands over time, but the one that I've been with the longest, the name changed about 10 years ago to The Resurrection Men, which does have a medical connection. Do you know what it is?

All I know of is that I went to I did my intern year at a hospital called Resurrection Medical Center, but I'm sure that's not it. That's not it. Although that's pretty cool that you did. That sounds like a good like TV show. It does. Yeah.

But so back in the old days, Victorian England, like when they were studying cadavers and stuff, and there's like these guys like working on the bodies, they got the bodies because people would dig bodies up and bring them to them to do called resurrection men. Those are the, that was the name of those guys. So, but it has given people do think our band is like a religious band because of that, which it is not. So I don't recommend going that route for other people. So I play guitar mostly. Okay.

And we're still playing. We have a gig coming up in June, June 28th at the Hotel Utah in San Francisco if you're in the area. That's awesome. And now is this a Persian guitar? This is a Persian, very Persian guitar. Okay. No, it's American guitar or Western guitar. I'm not sure. I wish I could play the sitar. That'd be rad. But there's a lot of strings on that. And

Six is already too many for me. You're only a gastroenterologist after all. I'm a simple man. Your finger dexterity is not as... Have you seen what I do for a living? Very basic stuff, you see. Yeah, you jam cameras up, people. That's exactly what I do. Yeah, there's not a lot of dexterity in there. I want to ask you, have you seen the pit

I have not, but that is something I, everyone tells me it's really good. People are saying it's really like accurate. Right. And it does sort of play on not just the medical accuracy, but like the emotional pathos of like working through COVID, et cetera. So I am very curious to have, why is it good? I am too. So I've seen little clips of it. I haven't watched a whole episode of it yet, but I hear the same thing. And I actually saw a post from a emergency doc who was like, you know, ER was,

was the show that made a lot of people fall in love with emergency medicine and wanting to maybe even become an emergency physician. The pit is like the last thing you want to show to a med student. Too real. Because it's too real. It's like all the worst possible things that you can encounter in an emergency setting

But it is accurate, right? Which got me thinking. I think people, because the most recent episode apparently showed like a birth. Showed it? Wow. Yeah, like the baby emerging from the vaginal canal. And like apparently I saw some still, I mean, I haven't watched it yet, but whatever prosthetics they use, wow. Yeah. It looked. Can you imagine if that's your job to make those prosthetics? Yeah.

You're like, how did I get here? And so, but it got me thinking, what we haven't seen yet in a medical show is a visceral, realistic evacuation of the bowels. Someone taking a dump is what you're saying. No, not well, I mean, in no uncertain terms, yeah. I feel like there's laws against that. Think about what happens in the emergency. There's disimpactions that are happening, like

If you're going to be realistic, you're going to show all the things that happened. I mean, Katie Couric did have a colonoscopy on TV, which is like about as close as I think it's going to get. Oh, that must have been a big day in GI. Do you not remember? No, now that he's saying it, I do remember that. But I want to address what you're doing here. Let me see. Let me tell you what you're doing here, okay? What am I doing? What you're doing is like the whole GI doctor, our focus is poop. I want you to understand, okay? I am not a scatologist. Okay?

I'm not a fecologist. I am a gastroenterologist. I don't study poop. Okay. Poop is sometimes something that we have to deal with. Correct. Sometimes there are physical ailments or there's problems regarding poop, but I don't study poop. I deal with the GI system. I would say. Poop is just a hobby for you. I would say. Just a sidekick.

I would say the typical ER doctor deals with poop way more than I have to deal with. That's probably fair. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. All right. Yeah. I feel like there's a soapbox for Kaveh. He really was passionate about that. I'm here to defend my fellow GI brethren and sistren against these malicious attacks on our besmirchments. Fair enough.

Well, I guess we could, I mean, what have you, what's the most invasive thing you've done in an emergency department as a gastroenterologist? Oh, we, we scope people in the ER, not infrequently. I mean, bring your little, little scope or we have like a whole tower and it's not easy. It's not like we just walk in like an ENT doctor does and they open up like a case and they like, you know, we have to have a big tower with our equipment on it. And it has like a camera on it, at least one, if not two TV screens.

And it's a whole setup. So it's not an easy process to do. It takes a little bit of time to get it going. But yeah, in the ER, there's people with big bleeds. Sometimes you can't get them to the ICU or stabilize and you have to do it there. More commonly, the most common thing I would say that we get called to the ER for is if somebody has something stuck in them, usually from above, usually like someone's got something stuck in their esophagus.

and we kind of want to get it going. They don't really need to be admitted most times for that. You can usually get it going and then get it through and then deal with follow-up stuff as you need later. But that's probably the most common thing that we actually do invasive-wise in the ER. So like esophageal foreign bodies? Yeah. So like when our daughter...

Aspirated and then coughed up and then swallowed a piece of her extender when she got her braces off. That would have been you. I have gotten gotten extenders and I've gotten actually this is going to this is going to terrify your listeners because this is only something I've experienced twice, but it's happened in the last two years.

someone's going to the dentist they're getting their work done and the dental drill a piece of it falls off and gets swallowed which i'd never seen before but now i've seen it now twice it's another little thing to make you freak out about going to the dentist yeah but um button batteries too that's a thing right yeah mostly kids i don't do that much stuff with kids but yeah that is that's a risk what how do you grab it that's like what how because the scopes that i've seen they're just

They come to a point at the end. Is it like one of those games at the arcade? The claw game? Yeah, that's exactly what it's like. It drops a thousand times.

it's actually not that far off. We have like, the scope is a long flexible tube for your listeners. And at the end of that long flexible tube, there's a camera and a light on it, but there's also some channels that we can work things through. And so we can put in nets, we can put in grabbers, we can put in snares. We have all kinds of fun stuff. Yeah. It's a fun gig people. You guys should, I,

I did a rotation in GI. I did a rotation and I actually really liked it. And you're right. There wasn't a lot of fecal matter involved. I watched a lot of, of colonoscopies. It was just the rounding that I was. Yeah. So I think I had a very, the, the, the chief resident was just very much into rounding. I think maybe I just got,

you know, a bad rounding experience. Like as far as the length of time. Right. Yeah. I would say actually that's probably not the case with most GI doctors. I think,

Most GI doctors went into this field because they didn't want to do nephrology. And they were like, they want to do procedures, do their stuff and get going. So for good or bad, I would say most GI doctors, and I do a lot more liver stuff, you know, than most GI docs do and biliary stuff. So that sometimes does require more rounding. But I think a lot of GI docs, they're like, let me do the case and just let me do that. Put my hands in people. Let me just do that real quick. Well, this chief resident I worked with also would wear jerseys.

dress pants and a scrub top. Interesting choice. Terrible. Not okay. Yeah, he's a bad person overall. That's a lot of red flags there. I don't know if it was a... For a long time, I just thought it was a GI thing. No, it is absolutely not. And now I feel like you could have been a great GI doctor had you had a better experience. I didn't mind because it's obviously very different from ophthalmology, but we also have a half-clinic

yeah or clinical half surgery right and so you know there's i don't know though it's still a lot of hospital i yeah hospitals yeah they they smell bad they're yeah they're well you know what happens in them right no what like people die people get sick there's puking there's vomiting there's blood yeah i don't i don't deal with any of that stuff you're smart smart man but i'm

But I will say, I mean, I don't know. It has its moments. It's fun. I mean, like you could have been a nephrologist. Is that what you're saying? No, no. Although I did come close. I considered dermatology at one point, which is like very different from my experience. And I'm glad I didn't pick it. No offense to dermatologists. Fantastic stuff they do.

But GI was the right choice for me. But there was a moment when I thought about, you know, Derm and skin. And every now and then when I'm woken up at like three in the morning, I was like, what?

What could have happened if this was a term? Yeah, probably would not have happened if I was a dermatologist. But you're certainly beautiful enough to be a dermatologist. Thank you. That is my real concern. My real concern was that people would look at me and be like, how are you, my dermatologist? Like, I make sense as a gastroenterologist. Like, this guy likes to eat. And like, sure.

I like to eat. I want to help eating, so let me go to this guy. So dermatology, they'd be like, this is... You do kind of need... I think it does help to look like your specialty. Oh. Well, how do you? Well...

Well, I mean, I've, I don't know. I don't think you do. I didn't really think this through. You're very pretty. Well, it's funny, guys, because we had a, I had an attending as a cornea attending and he always had just excellent, excellent tear film, his eyelids, nice long eyelashes, just amazing. So I don't know, I think it helps. Dermatologists, they all have wonderful, like amazing skin. Yeah. Yeah. And they, they're keeping all their secrets to themselves. What specialist would I be?

I think based on these, uh, you, I gotta be very careful with how I answer this question. Yeah. I'm curious to know how you handle this one. Certainly. Uh, absolutely. A pathologist. Okay. Thanks a lot. Maybe radiology. Okay. No, no,

He's putting me in the basement. You can't be in the basement. You can't be in the basement. You could do dermatology. I have a skincare routine. That's pretty impressive. You could do that. You could definitely do that. I could see you, and this I'm biased because I've heard you talk so much about the...

the psychological strain that happens to patients' families, you know, when their loved one's sick. But clearly I think like psychiatry or something in the mental health would, would also make sense for you. But I'm a little biased because of what I've heard you already kind of cover. Well, it's not too far from what I did study, which is why I speak to that all the time. So you're not wrong. He's, he put more thought into that. He did. Yeah. Who's the better husband? Hmm.

You just drink your little drink there, okay? You just have your little... What are you drinking? Whatever Persian apple juice. Oh, okay, there you go. There you go. All right, so Kaveh, the match just recently happened. Now, this episode is going to come out in April, so it'll be a few weeks old, but this is match week when we're recording this. And so, do you remember your match? I do, yeah. I remember pretty clearly. Tell me about it.

You know, I have to be honest with you. I didn't have a great match day. No? No, I didn't. Like...

I didn't get my number one pick, which, again, in the long run, I'm very happy with where I went and how things landed for me. But I had real concerns about whether or not I had made the right pick, made the right selection, and whether or not I was making the right choices. So there was a lot of doubt. I had a lot of concern. In terms of specialty or just the location? You're a matchless. A little bit of both. I decided I really wanted to work...

at like a county hospital or something that, where I got a good vibe off the people. I was feeling very punk rock Johnny Cash at the time. And I was like, I need to be working with the people. I don't want to work in like an academic, too academic institution. Right. And so, and then I was like, oh, but I also want to do GI. So maybe that wasn't a great idea. So,

So it was a little, I was a little concerned. And then of course it's hard when you're like that and you see everyone else like losing their minds with joy and that, that can hurt, you know? So yeah,

I remember that pretty clearly. I remember. And again, if there's no other lesson to learn here for someone who might be listening to this and didn't get their top pick, I am super happy with the way things ended up for me. And they ended up working out very well. I'm not even one of these people who's like, everything happens for a reason. I don't, I don't even believe that, but I do believe that you're going to have great potential no matter where you go. If you put in the time you put in the effort. So I do think, I do think that, um, it's a, it's a bit stressful. Did you guys not, was yours stressful? Uh,

You know, mine, I wouldn't say it was that stressful. I also didn't get my top choice. I got my second choice, which is Iowa. My first choice was Michigan. And I only ranked that higher because it had a better ultimate Frisbee scene. That was the only reason. Wait, wait, wait. No, no. He's not even joking. Please, I'm not kidding. No, that is true. You made your career decisions based around ultimate Frisbee.

Of course. What did hacky sack play into your decision making? I know I have like a standup comedian, uh, play ultimate Frisbee. What the hell am I doing in medicine? I don't know.

Uh, no, I, I, it's true. I could not, I, I loved both programs so much and I understood put that up there because they did, they had better first. And, uh, and so I was honestly very much fine with, with ending up at Iowa. Um, but did you open an envelope? Yeah, we had a different experience because you were ophthalmology.

Well, yeah, that's right. Because ophthalmology, we find out, we find out like two months early. It's like January. And you're just like, you just open an email at your house. There's no pomp and circumstance. Ours was, there's a big like room, big out of all the medical students are there. There's like a talk, there's a speech. And then there's, everyone gets their envelopes and then you open them up right there in front of everyone. And yeah,

everyone looks to you and they're like, Hey, how are you? And you're like, you did one at a time. Like each person. No, everyone opened at the same time. Okay. Cause our class, we said Dartmouth, where'd you go to med school? UC Davis. Yeah. So I don't know how big your class was. We had like 70 people in our class at Dartmouth. It was a very small class. So we did, everybody went up one at a time.

Oh no. To the front of the room. Was this a spelling bee? What the hell? And we got to choose our own walk-up music and everybody. That's kind of cool. Yeah. What did you pick? I recorded myself narrating myself walking up to the front. It was the stupidest thing. It's like, here comes Will.

That checks out. He's standing up. He's trying to get through the aisle. He's tripping over people. Fortunately, he's very tall. He has long legs. He's walking up to the front. I think at one point there was a do-do-do. I think that's amazing. And I've never loved you more.

But that was for your intern year, Matt. That was for my intern. So less pressure. I already knew where I was going for ophthalmology. So the only thing I found out at the same time as everyone else was where I was going for intern year, which I was also very equally excited about because I was doing a transitional year in Chicago, which can barely be called an intern year. It was phenomenal. But so you...

you opened your envelope and, and initially just a little bit of just like, oh, I didn't get, I didn't get exactly what I wanted. It didn't get exactly what I wanted, which, you know. What was number one? It was, I think it was UCSF at the time. Oh, okay. Yeah. So you were set for, you wanted to be California. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I've been in California my whole life. Yeah.

It's a whole thing. Other places scare me. God forbid you leave the West Coast. If I'm being honest, I'll tell you the truth. Right now, for the first time in my life, I've actually wondered

If I should have done that, you know, because I love California. My family's here. I love everything about California. I'm a Californian first, maybe before I would say even American. But like the there are times where I'm like, I would have loved to have lived in New York. And.

And, or some other city. And now it's too late. I mean, not New York is just too much for me right now. I can barely handle it. Like, I don't think I could maybe go for like a week, but like living there seems like so hard anywhere where there's snow. I, I'm not, I can't do. So I, those times when I was like young enough to have handled it, I do feel like maybe I should have done it. So yeah, there's a little bit of that, but then again, it is California. So I mean like, come on. Poor you. Well,

I want to ask about interviewing and your experience with all the interviews stuff, but let's take a break first. Clorox Antiva smells like grapefruit, cleans like Clorox, and feels like... Okay, we could be here all day. Try Clorox Antiva for a trusted clean with long-lasting freshness. Also available in lavender and coconut. Use as directed.

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All right. We're back with Kaveh. And so, so back when interviews for residency and you got to do fellowship interviews too. So I'm, I'm curious to hear the difference between the two, but all of now, most interviews are virtual, which I guess pros and cons there, right? It's, it's cheaper to do that, but I honestly can't imagine having done in-person interviews. Do you have any fun interview experiences?

fun. You know, the only ones that I remember distinctly are the ones that weren't great. Oh, even better, even better.

You don't have to give names. You don't have to give names of programs. I'll name names of people I remember. There was, okay, I'll tell you the first, the first one was a guy who I actually ended up working with. I'll say his name, Steve Rowe. Steve, you know who you are and you know why, you know why I'm doing this. We'll go into details about it later. But his question was like, well, give me your life story. That's what he asked. And then I'm like, all right. I tried to give him a bridge version of it, but like he started yawning and I was like,

okay maybe you didn't want the whole story so maybe that's a little bit on me too but like that was i remember that being like oh boy that's when you're like well my app cars were nine and ten

I started with my parents. Yeah, so that was one. And the other guy, I actually don't remember his name, but it was at USC. And I remember going in and I remember the guy, first of all, making me wait. Like there's an attending and he made me like way outside his office for like 20, 30 minutes while he did something else. He calls me in and the first question he asked, he looks at my name.

And he's like, Kaveh said, what are you Persian? I'm like, oh yeah. Cause he's LA. I'm like, he probably knows. And his first question for me is, is your dad making you do this? Oh, and I was like, I was like,

Well, yeah, but still jerk. That's kind of funny. That's risky. That's risky though. No, I, I have to be honest with you. I was mad. I did not like it. I was like, dude, don't, don't come at me with your sense of like what I'm all about because you may know a couple of Persian people. You think you can come at me like that. I was like, it was, it wasn't good. So you emphatically put your Persian drum back in its case and you walked away. Right.

I did play it in, wearing the traditional garb. I was trying to be daring. I was trying to be different. You got to be memorable. Yeah. You probably didn't rank that program very highly. I didn't rank it at all. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's true. There were a couple I didn't rank too. That made me mad. I was like, I was done with that place. I was a little, maybe a little too hardcore in my youth. Yeah. Unproc.

Gen X all the way. That's right. Cusper. Cusper. Okay. Boomer and Gen X? No. I have to decide. I could maybe fall into like a geriatric millennial or like a juvenile Gen X. I think juvenile Gen X sounds better to me.

You could do it when it's convenient for you, when it suits you. When you need to pull either card. Exactly. Oh, that's what I would do for sure. I'm not old enough. I'm definitely an elder millennial, but I feel like I'm, I don't really identify much with the X. You're not close enough. Not close enough. Yeah. That's okay. I don't really want to be part of the X. You're not missing much. My, one of my more memorable experiences, I don't,

a whole lot from, I remember my Iowa interview very well because I remember just clicking with them. Like, absolutely, just cracking jokes is great. Well, were you meeting with Tom Oding? Yeah,

Yeah, yeah. We're all on the same wavelength. Sometimes you just know. You go to a place, you're like, oh man, this is... We had that guy on the... He was his program director. We had him on the podcast at one point and two of them just giggled the whole time. That was their dynamic. No words, just giggling. I would watch. Not a very highly rated episode. I'd repeat it. I will say...

I went to Stanford for ophthalmology residency interview and they got us drunk. Wow. Yeah. Like not that they were trying to, but it was one of those at the interview, like the night of, no, the night, the night you rad, if they did it like during the interview, this was actually, there's the night before the interview. And, um,

We were at a, we were at a restaurant. It was like a, like slash wine bar. And it was one of those things where they just, they kept refilling our glasses. Right. And I was, as soon as I like got up to leave, I was like, whoa, I, there's no way I can drive this rental car back to wherever the hell I'm staying. Um,

And, uh, and, and so I had to just sit in the parking garage for like two hours before I was, this was like pre Uber and like, yeah, exactly. Rental cars everywhere. Right. How many medical students do they cause to crash? That was like thinking back on it. I was like, man, that was really not great. That is pretty wild. Was it a test and you failed?

Oh, if it was, I mean, I didn't, I was not, they were like middle of the pack for me. So I didn't really enjoy it. Why not? Why would you not say that? I've spent some time at Stanford. I know it well. So I feel like I may have some understanding of why you didn't choose, but why not? Because I think most people would hear the name and they'd be like, wow. Yeah, and I was really excited to go there. Honestly, I think it was, and sometimes this is all it takes. It's like one little interaction that makes you like really question whether or not you want to go there.

uh it was one of the residents who had um five kids and was uh living in like a 1200 square foot apartment because that's all i could afford yeah yeah in palo alto yeah yeah and so i was like okay all right that tells me a little bit about what i can expect in terms of not that we had five kids but you know we had one and um and so it was uh you know i i didn't

I was not enamored enough by the area to be like, I want to be barely living in like a studio apartment. Right. Yeah. You came in with a very different mindset than a lot of us probably would because, you know, you were already like you had a family. You were building and growing a family. Your priorities change. Well, and a cancer run as well. So that was...

Yeah, and they were really... That does things to your... And they were notably at Stanford very mean to cancer patients there. No, I just mean that changes your priorities. It kind of changes the way you look at life. But you can be a jerk if you want. That's fine. What about fellowship interviews? Fellowship was better. Fellowship was a lot better because at that point, you're sort of like... You have maybe published a couple papers you can talk about. You have something you can do. It's a little bit more...

mellow in general. You feel like you have something to offer the world a little bit. I have to say that the hardest part of the whole thing is getting into medical school. The second hardest part is internship. And then it gets a little easier every step along the way because you're so vulnerable in those early stages. And then as you get a little bit further down, you have a little bit more confidence. I was a little bit nervous because...

I was coming from a non-academic powerhouse. It's a great place, Santa Clara Valley Medical Center. I love the place and I love the mission of the people that work there. The doctors are some of the best I've ever worked with. I was able to do research there and at Stanford and I was able to do things around the area. And it was an amazing time, amazing place, but it wasn't known for putting out people in difficult fellowships. And GI...

is a, especially them. No, I still say probably even more so now actually is a challenging fellowship to get a spine and to get one in California, where's where I want it to be. That was difficult to do. So I was a little bit nervous because of that, but in general, your confidence is up a little bit more. You're already a doctor. At least, you know, you have that and you know, you can do something from there. So it was easier in general than the medical school and internship. Yeah.

Did they wine and dine you? Cause it's probably a smaller group, right? It was just like, I mean, imagine when they interview you, it's just, there was a couple of places that met up, but you know, I, I was, I dreaded those things. I dreaded those. You didn't like the smoothing. Oh my God. Having to go and schmooze with people and drink and then not know if you're drinking too little or too much. And like, and not knowing what to say, you're being tested the whole time. You know, that like people are coming at you, like,

And like, hey, I'm just cool. I'm a cool. Hey, fellow kids. And they're like, they want to be like, but disarm you. But you know that they're going to go back later and be like, that was a cool guy or that was a problem. So like, it's just not very natural and comfortable. So I don't love those experiences. You know, they went back like, well, he's got the body of a gastroenterologist, but he smells like one. He's got the face of a dermatologist. I'm not totally sure if he's really in it for the right reasons. Yeah.

The right reasons. There's so many wrong reasons to go into GI. Yeah, I guess they probably don't do that stuff anymore, though, if all the interviews are virtual. I mean, not all of them, but honestly, I think it's probably for residency because residency is just going to suck. Like,

It's going to be difficult. Okay. Yeah. It's going to be very challenging. And in the end, like you need the information, like what, you know, what the, what it's like, what the, ask the logistics about the, about the residency, the experience, the numbers, how much of this you're going to do in that. But like where you're at, like going to see it, there's some utility in that for sure. But I think for residency, you can probably get by and get a good sense of the people that,

Like virtually, I'm just thinking pros and cons, right? Like the amount of money that we spent on interviews. We had to take loans out. Just take extra loans out, which we're still paying back. Right. And so I see how, how it's, it's going to be hard to get away from virtual because it does make it just more accessible. Yeah.

I mean, I don't know. Maybe this adds to the whole cost of it overall, but like, it seems like you could do virtual as like a first round and then. I think a lot of programs do that. Do they? They have like second look. They have second look. Yeah. I would, I mean, I agree. I think the concept of the virtual interview is great because it allows students more options. And I think that's wonderful. But I do think no matter, you're right. You're going to be in the hospital a lot of that time.

But where you are, I think is kind of important. I think you should be in some place that you're going to be able to enjoy your time outside of work because I really highly recommend you do in residency. You find ways to get out of the hospital and do things on your own. And it's not going to be easy and you're going to be tired, but it's also something you kind of have to learn to do. Like ultimate Frisbee. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Yeah.

Playing in a band with a Persian band. No, let's start a podcast about Ultimate Frisbee. I think that's a great idea. Oh, man.

That's what this should become. So I would say, even if you don't, even if not for the interview, I do think you should check out the place if you've never been there before. You may have a chance to fall in love with the new city. I think it's worth checking out. Well, that was the case for us. Like, I cried when he said we were moving to Iowa because I'd never been. All I had was, you know, my mental image of it. And then it turned out to be one of our favorite places that we've ever lived because it was like the perfect place.

the particular city that we were in was really cool. So yeah, you just never know. And the cornfields do look nice. Especially when the setting sun hits them just right. Exactly. But yeah, I think the second look thing is like a good way to do it. Get a first pass, do the interview. So you don't waste your money going somewhere that turns out you just hate the program or whatever. Right, I don't know.

I'm not sure how it's going to change in the future, but certainly the best interviews were like when you're interviewing for jobs. So Kaiser treat you well. Yeah. Most places are all, you know, I mean, they, they know what they're looking for. They know what they want. And that's pretty nice. You know, you get to actually sort of like,

get to talk to people on a real level. And again, every step you go up further in this chain, you become a little more confident. You become a little bit more self-assured. And that I think reads well in interviews too. So,

So interviews become a little bit easier, I think overall. And the thing that is a hundred percent true, that is, it sounds like a cliche, but is absolutely something I would want young people to remember is that you are interviewing them as well. Right. Right. And my number one, like my number one tip for it, can we, do we do this? Make us like an interview, like tip. Yeah. Okay. This is my, my tip for you guys out there interviewing. If,

you're waiting to the very end to ask your question. I think you're doing it wrong. They're going to ask you the end. Do you have any questions? And generally that's like, no one's really paying attention. The interview is pretty much over at that point. And everyone's tired at that point in the conversation. I ask questions along the way. Like if you get asked the question, answer it. But then if you have a moment, be like,

Why did you decide that? Or what was it? Do you feel that's true here? Ask them questions to get your interviewer engaged, keep them engaged in the conversation. And it shows that you're listening. It shows that you care. I think that's a better way of doing it than waiting till the very end to ask your question. That's such a good. Yeah, I agree. That's such a good tip because then it makes it actually feel more like a real human conversation. Right. Yeah, exactly. That's another thing. It's not just like,

question, answer question. It's just like, and it gives them insight into how you are thinking about this job, like how you are approaching it. What kinds of things do you care enough to ask a question about? Do you do, are you, do you work with fellows or, or residents? I did. I don't anymore. Not with my, my current gig, but I was teaching medical students before and fellows. And I loved it. I do love teaching. I think that is, that is great. That's a great part of being a doctor. That's one of the best parts of being a doctor, to be honest. Yeah.

Do you? I don't know. You teach in a different way. Yeah, yeah. It's not, you know, in the practice we're in, private practice ophthalmology, it's so fast-paced. It'd be actually hard to be able to take the time that you need to really do, like, significant teaching. But Kristen did recently suggest that I do some shadowing. Yes. Interesting. Yeah, yeah. Of whom?

you know, for content, for comedy related purposes. Because,

Get some ideas. Come visit me. Yeah. Yeah. So much fun. Can I, can I, can I shout at you? Can I, can I, you can stay in the studio guest room and play the Persian drum. I'm going to record some pods together. I can, I can watch you do some, some sigmoid and the, you can't even say it. The colonoscopy sigmoidoscopy. This is why he needs the shadowing. It's a thing. It's a thing. Yeah. I would love to see you get to that. I see valve. Yeah.

And just really just blast through that thing and do the thing where you turn the scope around. You can look at where the scope's coming from. Retroflection. Yeah, you got it. Sure, whatever. I'd love to see this. Come with me for an endoscopic retrograde cholangiopancreatography. That sounds fun. That's what I want you to come and watch me do and hang out with me to do. That's what I want you to see. All right. That's the fun stuff. If I start doing some shadowing. I'd stand by. It's a good idea.

Actually, it really is not a bad idea. That could be like... That's some good content. Yeah, that's some good content right there. The only problem is if you do that, every doctor you're working with is going to really try to be like... They're going to try and ham it up for you. They're all going to be trying out material on you. They're going to be like, you can make a character that does this. I think you're overestimating how funny doctors are. I don't know if I'm overestimating the humor level. I don't know.

So what you're saying is I need to wear some kind of costume. Yeah, you might have to go in costume. It's pretty hard to disguise yourself. It's a six foot four, curly headed, lanky white guy. Yeah. Well, not that many white people in medicine. You're right. You're right. Yeah. Not that many. Not that many. No white dudes, especially. Let's take one more break. And then I've got a little activity for us.

All right, Kaveh. So we're going to have you perform a virtual colonoscopy on one. No, we're not going to do that. You know, there like there have been like attempts to do that, like games that people are training games, that sort of thing. You have to have like a special module. But like, I mean,

The job eventually, eventually, yeah, that's literally what it is, like a fake button is connected to a thing. It's terrible and never worked well. But the technology will be there to do them remotely. I mean, that's going to happen eventually, you know?

How? How's that? I mean, you'll have to have, you'll have to have like nurses in the room and like professionals in the room. And I'm talking many years down the road, like probably when I'm, I'm done or retired, but like there, you'll need to have someone there to help guide the scope. Maybe from the outside, you'll put pressure on the abdomen, turn the patient when you need to, but there'll be like a machine that you could like,

whirl up to someone in like rural, like East West Jesus, Texas. And there's no like GI doctor around. And then they, you say, insert the scope and then there's puts it, puts it in and it'll somehow move forward. It's like an automatic. It's like the, the, the, like the garden hose. Like,

Like the crank that advances. I mean, or something like that. Like for God's sake, we have like, it is a bit archaic. Like it's work. We have great equipment that the screens get better every year. The technology gets better all the time and we're doing fine with what we have.

But I mean, I would like to see us move forward in the field. Don't you think that a robot could do the insertions and the pushing on the abdomen or whatever else you just said? Like, can't that be a robotic arm that you're controlling? I mean, robots are taking over a lot of different surgeries. Yeah, we'll just make an AI agent.

to do colonoscopy and then for the from the gastroenterologist side of things it's like knowing what you're looking at and knowing what you're right obviously the maneuvers are a big part of that too so i don't want to say that a robot could do exactly what cave does no but if he's controlling he's controlling the robot did you miss that part oh he's oh i see yeah yeah yeah yeah okay all right um

Anyway, it's going to think about business idea of the day. I mean, people have been talking about like robotic. People are currently talking about robotic cataract surgery. And my, my question is like cataract surgery takes six minutes to do. Yeah. What the hell are we doing? Yeah. How much more efficient do we need to be? Why do you think we're at reimbursements continue to go down? It's because we could do cataract surgery in six minutes. Yeah. Anyway. All right. So here's what we're going to do. Um,

I thought you could help me out with this because I was thinking, Kaveh, that UnitedHealthcare, one of our dear friends. Sponsored by. Right.

You know, the amount of shit I'd get in if I was suddenly unveiled a United Healthcare sponsorship. That would be pretty amazing. That would be a great turn. Wow. Maybe that's how I end my career. Yeah, that's how you cancel yourself. That's how I get out. That's my exit strategy. All right. So I think they need our help, Kaveh. Yeah. Because they're doing this vertical integration thing.

So just for the listener knows, UnitedHealthcare at this point or UnitedHealth Group, which is the parent company, they own hospitals, pharmacies, pharmacy benefit managers. They own physicians. They're the largest employer of physicians in the U.S.

So, and obviously insurance companies. So every step of the ladder, they're, they're just taken over. They're taken over so they can just, they can regulate everything, set prices, all the terrible things that's happening. But Kaveh, I think they can go further. Yeah. I think, I think there's, there's more meat on that bone. Don't you think? So, um, I have some, I want to throw some things at you here. Okay.

on other ways that UnitedHealthcare could be more vertically integrated than they are now. Okay. So here's something we've already talked about. I think UnitedHealthcare should buy the match. I shouldn't laugh because that's actually totally feasible for this to be sponsored, the match sponsored by. Not even just that. Think about how far... Match insurance. Oh my gosh.

It would be funny if it weren't possible. Everyone would buy it and they would think how much money you would spend. You would spend so much money. Oh my God. Like, hey, if you don't match, we'll, you know, we'll give you, you know, we'll pay out a certain amount of money until next year. But then, obviously, they find a way to kind of cut back on it. Oh no, you'll owe them for the rest of your life. I mean, you will be paying off that loan. Maybe while you're

receiving those benefits, you have to work for them. Indentured servitude. Yeah, that makes sense. You buy into it and then you're theirs. I like where this is going. Keep going. See what I'm saying here? We're vertically integrated. We're getting everything. Get them into the UnitedHealthcare ecosystem early so that they know that they get brainwashed early enough. I don't know why they haven't done this yet. No, get them while they're young. Exactly. Here's the next thing.

The NBME, the National Board of Medical Examiners. Yeah. If you don't pass, then you have insurance if you don't pass? Yeah, you could do that. You could also just because the NBME makes the step exams. All right. So we instead of instead of exam or teaching them and testing them on medical knowledge, it's medical knowledge through the lens of UnitedHealthcare.

why don't we just make it a medical school?

See, now you're thinking. Now you're thinking, Kaveh. See, this is the way they work. This is the way UnitedHealthcare works. All right. Yep. Now they own medical schools. Why not? Why not? Yeah. All right. Create your own textbooks. Just really just get in, get your teeth in there early and don't let them know. Learn how to make those important medical decisions about why nobody should get covered. I think there's something very interesting there. See? I think it should be its own specialty. Oh.

Yeah. Like you, you like go to a, like, um, I'm assuming they, there's like, these are all mostly doctors who have somehow they're called medical directors, medical directors, medical directorship, medical director residency. Mm.

Or fellowship or both. Or you could just keep adding different types. You could do a fellowship and peer-to-peer reviews. I think what you need, though, is you need the lowest scores of your class to be considered for this opportunity. Absolutely. Because you have to be – they have to get those doctors that are willing to do a little –

around the edges. Yeah. They don't have the highest scruples. Like there should be separate. I mean, and you know what they say, the person that graduates bottom of their medical school is still called doctor. Um, but there, maybe there could be like a personality test. Oh, that's an even better, like an ethics test. Right. And then you're going to see the outliers on either end and you mark them. The ones with the highest ethical standards, you mark them as problems. Mm.

It's good to know what they're going to be. It's good to know what they're up to. And then the other ones, those are the guys that maybe we take out for dinner. That's right. Those are the Dr. Oz's of the world. Cheesecake factory for those guys. Cheesecake factory. I don't mean to be giving cheesecake factory any strays here. I think that's perfectly fine. No problem there. All right, here's the last one. I think they should buy McKesson.

All right. So McKesson is a company. They do medical supplies. Okay. But what they also make are automated pharmacy delivery machines.

There's something called, I don't think McKesson makes this. I think they call it the McKesson, but there's also something called a Pixis machine. Is this like a vending machine that serves? Yeah, it serves the drugs. They go, they have to put their fingerprint on it, put in their information, they get the drugs. It keeps it all sort of hopefully on the level. Here's why they should buy this.

Um, because you could do point of care prior authorizations. Oh my God. Does this patient deserve any more painkillers for their surgery that they're experiencing currently? Yes. Get involved. And so, so, you know, the nurse, they, they put their fingerprint on the thing and it's like, all of a sudden you get asked a question.

that either the nurse or someone on the care team has to answer. And this it's all AI. And so, and so I got to say this last one is going to happen. This is not even a joke. This last one, it's like, they've talked about this. This is like, this is this last one is like the low hanging fruit for them. This is smart. It's too good of an idea. You have a dark gift. Well, I,

I think that they would do this. Honestly, I'm not even kidding. Let's come back to the subject. No, no, no. You're not giving them ideas. Don't worry. They're already working on it. Someone's talked about this. There's meetings about this already. Trust me. There's like this meeting board that's happening right now where they're like, okay, here's the money we're going to make.

Here's the hit we're going to take, you know, in terms of public image. What is our what's what's the point in which we say it's worth it? And there's going to be a lot of people like even in the post Luigi world, they're going to be people on that board are like, it's worth it.

That's a promotion worthy idea right there for somebody. Point of care, prior authorizations. I think you can go even bigger than medical school and MBME. I think now's the prime time to do it. Medical research.

They got to own all the medical research. It's probably going to be the only way we get medical research. Exactly. See? There's probably another one that's already on the table. It's already because they're already trying to privatize everything. Yeah, because now everything's losing its funding. They're going to need some more funding from somewhere. Everything's sponsored by... Or just that UnitedHealthcare is the NIH. Pretty much. Yep. This is chilling, chilling words, but...

But I mean, this is not far off. I mean, the whole point of what they're... This is... Okay, and I hate to be political here, but... It's okay. This is a little bit of a Republican strategy. Yeah.

You take some existing structure that's public, some public entity, something for the public good. You defund it to the point or you make it so hard to do what they need to do. You take away, you put so many blocks in the way to the point where it no longer works well. And then you could say this stinks. Let's give it over to private equity. Let's give it over to Medicaid. Medicaid is a perfect example. That's how this is going to work. And this would be the perfect example of doing that. And why not? Why not then? Why not UnitedHealthcare?

It's also going to be McDonald's. Maybe it'll be a joint venture. National Institute of United Healthcare. That's right. The NIUH. Whatever.

They already have the title. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. Well, well, uh, we'll, we'll stop giving them more ideas for now. So I think we'll stop there. Uh, Kaveh, any last words? You got anything going on? Uh, again, June 28th. If you're in San Francisco, come watch my band, the resurrection men play music. It'll be an unusually fun and sweaty show. I think you'll enjoy it. Um, not sweaty or they will be sweaty. It was going to be sweaty. Maybe everyone, a little bit of everyone. Um, and then, uh,

More importantly, listen to the podcast, The House of Pod, that I am on and that I do. And it's a fun little look at the world of medicine. It's very similar to this, just not as good. And if you like that and you're like, I need more of this, but I can't have enough of this. Then I'm like your Kirkland brand version of the Glockenfleckens. And I will have an episode waiting for you. So come check us out. And I think you'll probably appreciate it.

You have the most varied and interesting guests. Yes. You've been around the block a time or two. You know...

And you're much smarter than us when you talk about it. You know people. And you know everybody that owns a Persian drum in the near vicinity of where you're at. I do know. Actually, I'm going to tell you the truth. Not a lot of Persians in San Francisco. I mean, we have a lot of everything, but not enough Persians is what I will say in San Francisco. So if you're Persian, come to San Francisco. There you go. Check it out.

But yeah, thank you guys so much for having me. This is super fun. I appreciate it. Thanks for coming on. We'll see you. This episode is brought to you by Principles. Are there limits to the U.S. government's debt growth? What will happen if the debts are not curtailed? What should policymakers or investors do?

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Yeah, Kaveh really makes me want to be a gastroenterologist. Does he? That's impressive. All the scoping and... Yeah. Honestly, colonoscopies, they seem kind of fun. Do they? It's video game-like. Oh, okay. I mean, yeah, you gotta put something in someone's butt. Well, you probably don't do that part. I bet there's like a tech or... Well, I mean, they do have like a helper person. Yeah, right. But

It is the one. No, I know that that's what happens, but the GI doctor probably is not the one to do the inserting. Don't you think? Cause they're going to be back at the video game console. No, usually it's like they have a, the monitor and the camera is at the end of the scope. So they just sit there. So they got to drive the scope. They're driving the scope. They're, they're, they're threading it through. Okay. And all the way up in there, all up in those guts.

Do they do anything? We should have asked while he was on. Do they do anything without a scope? Or is it entirely scope-based? No, there's other. No, because there's, they do, because they're also, like you mentioned, liver. Yeah. So there's other organs they're involved with. But they don't scope into there, because there's no tube into there, right? Don't scope the liver. Yeah, I don't want to do that. Probably a bad idea, scope the liver. All right, let us know what you guys...

Let us know what you guys thought of the episode. Have any other guest suggestions or topics you want us to cover, you can hit us up. Email us, knockknockhigh at human-content.com. We're on all the social media platforms. Hang out with us on the Human Content Podcast family on Instagram and TikTok at humancontentpods. Thanks to all the wonderful listeners leaving feedback and reviews. If you subscribe, subscribe. Subscribe. Subscribe and comment on your favorite podcasting app.

Or on YouTube, by the way, at Glockenfleckens. That's our YouTube channel. We might give you a shout out. Like, at ElizabethJohnson4916 on YouTube said, in regards to your brain being tricked into seeing things like the dress color. I talked about the dress. Remember the trend in the early 90s where they had those hoops with images that if you stared a certain...

way you'd see an image in 3D. I know what she's talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The poster. Magic eye. Magic eye, yes. Magic eye. I was going to say crazy eye. Different diagnosis altogether. I never could see those things. Could you? Kind of. I never could. Didn't ever see a single one. Well, he says, how come some saw the image and some couldn't? All right. I'll do that for an upcoming episode. You know the answer? Well, it has to do with how much stereopsis you have.

Like how much your ability to use both eyes and see images independently. All right. Full video episodes every week on our YouTube channel at Glockenfleckens. We also have a Patreon. Lots of cool perks, bonus episodes where we react to stuff. We've got to get the pit. Yeah, well, we've done one. We need some more. We did the baby birthing episode of the pit. Yeah, that's what we should do.

Hang out with other members of the Knock Knock High community. We're there. Early ad-free episode access, interactive Q&A, livestream events, much more. Patreon.com slash Glockenpluckin or go to Glockenpluckin.com to find out more. Speaking of Patreon community perks, shout out to all the Jonathans. Patrick, Lucia C., Sharon S., Edward K., Stephen G., Mary W., Mr. Granddaddy, Caitlin C., Brianna L., Mary H., K.L., Keith G., Jeremiah H., Parker, Muhammad L., David H. times 2.

Kaylee A. I'm partial to the second David H. Yeah, I know. You've said that before. You're going to make the first David H. feel bad. You know what? David H. number one, I'm here for you. Okay. All right. You each get one of us. You'll get her in the divorce. Yeah. Jeremiah H. Parker. Oh, I already said that. Kaylee A. Gabe. Gary M. Eric B. Marlene S. Scott M. Kelsey M. Joseph S. Dr. Hoover. Sean M. Hawkeye M.D. Bubbly Salt. And...

Seanity. Patreon roulette. Random shout out to someone in the emergency medicine tier. Peter S., thank you for being a patron. And thank you all for listening. We're your hosts, Will and Kristen Flannery, also known as the Glockenfleckens, thanks to Dr. Kaveh Hoda. And our executive producers are Will Flannery, Kristen Flannery, Aaron Corny, Rod Goldman, and Shanti Brooke. Editor, engineer, stage sympathizer. Our music is by Emmy Award winner Omer Benzvi.

To learn about our Knock Knock Highs, program disclaimer, ethics policies, submission of every case, and licensing terms, and those pesky little HIPAA release terms, go to GlockandPlugin.com or reach out to us at KnockKnockHigh at Human-Content.com with questions, concerns, or any fun medical puns you might have. Knock Knock High is a human content production. Bye! Knock Knock! Goodbye!

Hey, Kristen. What? You want an assistant? I would love an assistant. I bet you would. I don't want just one, though. I want many. Many assistants? Yes, I've got a lot of work. Well, I can give you something that does the work of many assistants. Okay. Have you heard of Microsoft Dragon Copilot? Oh, I have heard of this. Yeah, this is an AI assistant for clinical workflow. That's amazing. It transforms the way clinicians work.

Uh, it's like a little Jonathan doing lots of things for you. Uh, one of those things is, is helping you get information faster. Oh yeah. This is what I, one of the things I love most about it. Like you just ask and you can get answers on a wide variety of clinical topics with citations. Sometimes like we don't, we have to like do research to like,

Try to jog our memory about certain things. There's a lot to think about in medicine. And new stuff coming out all the time. Well, Microsoft Dragon Copilot can just make that process faster and give you citations that lead you. You can look up the latest evidence about things, guidelines. It just makes that whole process seamless. I like it. Totally.

To learn more about Microsoft Dragon Copilot, visit aka.ms slash knock knock high. Again, that's aka.ms slash knock knock high.