What Is ARFID and Why Is It So Misunderstood? | Andrew (ARFID Andrew) Luber
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It's a little different than usual. We're not speaking to a healthcare professional this time. But someone who has definitely been in the healthcare system in a very unique way. That's right. As someone with ARFID. Talk about ARFID. Right. Auto-restrictive food intake disorder. And the reason that is something that I am excited to talk about is because it is...

Well, I'm excited and I'm a little nervous to put this out there, frankly, because it is something that I suffer with as well. So I've had it my whole life. It's been very difficult. And I've had a lot of negative reactions to it. So putting it out on the Internet is a little bit scary. But I believe in you, Glock Flock. You guys are always very, very supportive and nice and wonderful people. Yeah.

Be kind to me. You want to give people a rundown of what RFID is? Yeah, so...

I have to start by saying, like, when I was growing up, there was no name for this. There was no one studying it. There was no knowledge about it whatsoever. And I'm super, super glad that that has changed over the years. And now we have this name for a disorder. As I said, it's auto-restrictive food intake disorder. And a lot of times, I think it is classified as, like, an eating disorder. But it's...

more accurately, I think, to think about it as a feeding disorder because it has nothing to do with your body image. It has nothing to do with feeling like you need to lose weight. It is actually a food phobia. So it's that, you know, like I don't look at food. I've always said I feel like something in my brain is broken, right? The thing that identifies...

Here's a thing in the world that you should put in your mouth and eat and it will help sustain you. Like what other people classify into that box, I do not put into that box. It would be as if, you know, if you put, I don't know what a...

Name a food. Just anything. So hard for you to even name a food. I hate food. Shrimp scampi. Okay, shrimp scampi in front of me. First of all, I would probably promptly vomit. But secondly, that does not look like food to me. It's like if you were to put a rock in front of me and say, here, eat this. Or.

Or, you know, some grass or something. Like, technically, I guess you could eat grass, but no one wants to. It's not appetite. Probably cause a bezoar in your stomach. Probably. I don't know. But anyway, so that's... My relationship with food has always been very fraught and tricky. And it is the... If I could change one thing about myself, it would be to either not have ARFID or...

To be able, I've said from a very young age, I wish that I could just take a pill and have all my nutrition that way. To just not need to eat would be my fantasy. Kristen's the kind of person that in the Matrix movie, how all they, in the real world in the Matrix, they have this slop.

that has all of their ingredients that the human body needs in one. The Soylent variety. The one Soylent type thing. Yeah. But I want it in a pill. I don't want to even have to taste the slop. But Kristen sees that and is like, hmm, they're onto something. They are. And that's not something that the average person thinks like that. And I wanted to point out too, since we do have, you know, our audience is largely healthcare professionals,

professionals. And so I wanted to give a little bit of kind of healthcare context around all of this. There are, apparently I learned this, this is new information to me. There are apparently three types of ARFID. One is a lack of interest, a genuine lack of interest in eating and in food. And they, and people with this also get full quickly.

I feel like I have that. Do you feel like I have that? Is that true? I'm always eating your leftovers. Yeah. And I just like forget to eat and I don't care about food. It's like a chore to have to eat. Yeah. You don't feel like you have to eat, except there are a lot of our conversations and logistics and planning is around food. Yes. And we talk about that in this episode. Right. Because it's around, ultimately it's around avoiding food, but needing to have food to live.

That's a really problematic conflict every single day. Okay, so that was the first type. The second type, sensory avoidance. These people have issues with food tastes, textures, temperature, and smells. I feel like that definitely applies to me. Yeah, you absolutely have, like, what, all of those? Yes. Temperature thing? Yeah, because, like, certain things should be cold or should be hot, and if you switch it, it's disgusting. Like, you couldn't eat cold pizza.

I have a harder time with cold pizza. I can eat it if I have to, but it does sort of...

I'm not excited about it. And then the third type is fear of aversive consequences. So fear of illness or choking, nausea, allergies, that sort of thing can give you a food phobia. I don't know if I have that type so much. I definitely have a... You have a fear of throwing up. I do have a fear of nausea and throwing up. And when I think about food, I'm feeling it right now even.

And in this episode, I even had to take a minute. But I get this feeling in my throat that I'm about to gag. I mentioned feeding asparagus to her by mouth, by hand, hand to mouth. And here I am doing it again. Sorry. I do. I mean, as you can see right here, if you're watching. So we also... You can hear. I'll take... I have a physiological reaction to it. Like I really start to...

I do feel like I might throw up or at least gag like that. It is physically happening. So we also are, uh, we recorded this interview with Andrew, uh, right after shortly after Thanksgiving. So we mentioned Thanksgiving dinner and which, which,

by the way, is a comfort for you and probably a lot of people who have ARFID because there's a lot of beige. Lots of beige food. I'm good with beige food. Most of the things that I can eat that feel like safe foods are some degree of beige or very close. Yeah. Like, you know, bread and dairy and things like that. A little bland. Yeah, bland. Bland things. Not too much flavor. Right. Yeah. So,

Really fascinating conversation. It's an important thing to know about because it affects so much of your life, especially because in our culture and in our society, food is such a big... People get offended if you don't eat their food that they've prepared. And people get really excited about food and they want to share it socially with people. And so to be a person that rejects food...

people take that very personally a lot of the time. And so it becomes this really big problem socially, right? You get a lot of negative social attention as a person with ARFID and you learn to just sort of hide it about yourself. And we talk about little tricks that we have for doing that. And so I'm really excited that we're talking about this today. And I hope that

that it helps spread some awareness. Let's talk about our guest. Let's do. So this is Andrew Luber, better known as Arfid Andrew on TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube. He's gained a sizable following just exposing himself

with his friends and family to new foods. Yes. And it's fascinating. It's funny. It's informative. Definitely check it out. ARFID Andrew. He's also a screenwriter. He's working on a movie. We talked a little bit about that at the end. And just interesting, definitely a fascinating conversation about ARFID and some of the interesting things that come up in life as someone who has this disease. And so I hope you guys enjoy it.

Here he is, Andrew Luber, aka Arfid Andrew. Today's episode is brought to you by Dax Copilot from Microsoft. To learn about how Dax Copilot can help you reduce burnout and restore the joy of practicing medicine, visit aka.ms slash knock knock high. Again, that's aka.ms like Microsoft slash knock knock high.

All right, welcome, Arfid Andrew. Can I just call you Andrew? Is that good? Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, all right. So we're so excited to talk with you. I think Kristen is... Yeah, I've been waiting a long time. She's been waiting a long time, ever since we found your social media presence. And I have a quick question right off the bat here. How was Thanksgiving dinner?

Did you, did you survive it? Are you, are you doing okay? So Thanksgiving dinner was actually pretty good. Uh,

I was I'm honestly I'm making a movie right now. So I'm like pretty preoccupied and stressed out and making this movie. So I wasn't even hungry just because of that. So I was maybe I'm giving myself an excuse. But the white meat chicken that I ate and it's pretty good. So I mean, it's it's

I did see, I saw, I saw the, the Tik TOK you made, uh, of trying the different, uh, first of all, I love the Thanksgiving glasses you had on the drumstick glasses. Those are great. Uh, but also I, I, I, you did, you did pretty well trying the different foods. That was, that was great. The chocolate covered strawberries gave you a little bit of a challenge. Yeah. Oh my God.

The texture, it's just very freaky. It's very freaky. It is. I like strawberry jam now, though. I think it's great. But the strawberry itself, I'm not there yet. Yeah, the flavor is fine. It's not the flavor or the smell. It's the texture and all those little seeds. It's like little alien pods. Why would you put that in your mouth? It's so intimidating. Yeah. I don't know very many people who would describe it as alien pods.

I mean, that's what it triggers for me. Yeah, right? Same here. Yeah. I watched your video where you tried a pomegranate and you said something similar about the inside. It looks like food from Mars. And I was like, this guy gets me. Yeah.

I mean, I would never think like whoever first discovered these foods, I would never open and be like, oh, that that pomegranate that looks edible. Like I would never come across my mind. Exactly. Thank you. I have been saying these things my whole life and everyone looks at me like I'm crazy. Like it just doesn't seem like food. Food doesn't seem like food doesn't seem like something you should put your mouth.

Well, it does seem like, because knowing you, Krista, who is, I think you have like an undiagnosed ARFID. Oh, I for sure have it. I've just never, there wasn't a name for it growing up. So like, I've just never, no one knew about it. I didn't get a diagnosis. No one knew about it. But when you read ARFID,

you know, the criteria and stuff. It's like, yes, that is definitely me. Let's do the criteria just so people have it. Andrew, do you want to do don't know it off the top of your head? You want us to pull it out? There's like medical criteria now for like, what defines this disorder? I would say there's a medical criteria. And then I have my own criteria that I would say is more suitable for like,

the everyday individual trying to understand. So like from coming from that perspective, yeah.

If you shape your day around where you're eating and what you're eating, you have ARFID. Like if it's an anxiety in the sense that you're literally organizing yourself according to that, then you have ARFID. It's like pretty safe to say you have ARFID, I would say. The medical understanding of it, I mean, it's... Sometimes I say it wrong, but it's...

It stands for avoidant restrictive food intake disorder. So there's, it's on a spectrum and, uh,

Some people literally avoid all foods. Like, uh, I know this girl, Cassidy, she has her own page. Uh, she's way more restrictive than me where she just restricts herself and, and, and doesn't eat. Where for me, I avoid a lot of food groups and I plan my day around avoiding them. Um, so there's, there's different, uh,

People have different relationships with food that Alfred accounts for. What was it like growing up? When did you or in your family know that, okay, this isn't a typical journey with eating? Yeah. Pretty much since when I was a baby. It was very difficult for them to get me to eat.

like in general and I would freak out and cry and throw up a lot not to get vulgar but you know no I mean our audience is mostly healthcare professionals they've seen a lot worse than vomit let me tell you so it's fine

No, but yeah, I was the same. I would just... It was hard to feed me because I would just spit everything out. Yeah. And then there's a photo that Kristen has of her asleep at the dinner table because... It's not a photo. I just remember this like a flashbulb memory burned in my mind. They tried the parenting tactic, right? And I feel bad for my parents. Like, it is hard to be a parent of a person with ARFID. I get it. And they were doing their best. And they just took advice from their parents, which was...

If she's not going to eat, then she, you know, you just leave her there until she eats. She can't get up from the table until she eats. And so, you know what? I fell asleep at that table that night. Like, no, I'm not going to eat it. Like, it's not stubbornness. It's not a defiant act of a child, right? It was just like...

I cannot eat this. I would rather starve, literally. Yeah. Do you recall if there was a trauma event? Or if your parents told you there was this time where...

when you're a baby, you like ate something and you threw up and you like sat in it or something or I don't know. Right. No, there was no big trauma. I just always was like that. Sounds like you have something though. So I have a story that my mom tells me, you know, whether I myself can tell you if it's true. I don't remember, but this is what my mom says. So like my relatable story. Well, two things.

My parents would...

try to make me eat something. And I'm a very dramatic person, like in pretty much every facet of my life, especially when I was a kid. And I would have hissy fits to a whole nother level. And like, they would maybe put me in my room or do anything, it just would persist. Like it doesn't matter what punishment or like for them to get me to calm down. I would freak out, cry, throw up, like shake, act like I'm sick.

just to not be near the food. Yeah. So like my parents at a certain point had to like, just give me food that I would eat because otherwise it would just be constant hissy fits. Now the story that my mom tells me is her friend, a good family friend of mine brought over banana and rice baby food. And apparently I ate it and,

and then went to sleep and I threw up all the food and I sat in it. And I was crying apparently and she didn't get me for a while. And then when she did, she saw that I was like hysterical with food all over me. And she said, ever since then,

I just treated food differently when I was a baby. And I think that's also like the origin of like why bananas are like number one thing for me. Is it the taste? Is it the texture? Is it both? What is it that... The texture is awful. Is there like a breakdown of like 90% texture, 10% taste? I mean, can you...

Yeah. I mean, I've never had a banana before, so I couldn't tell you. Or really with any food, really. What is it that kind of sets you off more for hating something or being unable to eat something? Is it-

Is it taste or texture or something else? I think it's all of those. But I think what's more initial than that is there's this orientation that I have, this idea of food that just literally makes me want to throw up. Yeah.

So it's, so it's, it's, it's like the idea of food itself. Yeah. That makes me gross. Okay. Yeah. But the weird thing is the foods that I do like, I love, like I'll binge eat goldfish. Yeah. Like, like if you give me goldfish, like those big boxes. Oh yeah. Got one in my pantry. Gone in an hour, gone in an hour. And,

It's not good because then you get double chins like this. But then, you know. What else is on your list? Of foods I will eat? Yes, yes. So like very, sorry, what were you going to say? I was going to say, first of all, I would imagine it's a short list.

It was a short list. Yeah. But I've been pretty persistent about this for a very long time. I just started really posting about it and getting like really active in my exposure and trying to expand my palate the last like five months. Okay.

Yeah. Or so I forget when exactly I started the TikTok. So let's start with what was on your list before you really started trying to expand. And then I want to get into that because I am not there and I don't know how you get there. So I want to talk about that, too. Let's start with with what was on your short list.

Okay. So there's two eras. I would say there's like pre-college and then post-college 20s. Pre-college, it was pretty limited to filet, like random things. Filet, shrimp, mac and cheese, peanut butter and jelly, roast beef and cheese sandwiches. Okay.

and uh like chocolate chip cookies like that that's basically it how about french fries french fries um like basically chicken just like white meat chicken um and uh

Bacon. Yeah. Bacon, like even pulled pork and that kind of stuff. Like it was very iffy on like if there was no from an aesthetic standpoint, if it was presented in a certain way, I would be able to eat it. But it was like very context dependent.

Then in like post in college and like in my 20s, more so when I was like 2021, I started getting into fish. So I eat all fish besides like salmon now. Interesting. I was going to say your pre-college years, shrimps was a bit of a curveball. Yeah. I was not expecting you to say that.

Yeah. Um, I don't even know when exactly I started eating shrimp. I think I was like, like probably like 14 or 15. I like my dad would trick me. Um,

My dad would try to trick me a lot. Same with my mom, but my mom was less successful. My grandma. So like there, there were things that I would eat that I had no idea that I would eat. My mom would make me chocolate chip cookies, but there were, there were raisins in them secretly or they were like ground up carrots secretly in it. So like my parents would try to like,

you know, conceal what I was actually eating. Right. At times. Okay. And then, so go back to, so after college, what did you, what did you expanded? So like I started eating fishes and then I would say like four years ago that they were like on my diet.

I could get it on a weekly basis, but it took time. Like there's different stages and there's like, Oh, it's edible. I can actually swallow it. And then that doesn't mean I can like eat it on a regular basis. Right.

So like that to get it to a regular basis is like repetition and making sure that the food is presented in a similar context and that it looks similar to how I was able to eat at that initial time. Even hearing you talk about that is I'm having like heart palpitations and like this stresses me out so much to think because how did you get it to where you could even put it in your mouth to try it? So...

There are certain like social pressures. Yeah. Like I'm a single guy. I go on a date.

I have to like you're very motivated to hide this thing very motivated like there's been plenty of times I remember like especially my earliest mornings I would go on a date I would like try oh here try a bite of your food I'll be like okay I like put it in my mouth and I'm like mmm I gotta go to the bathroom and I'll go to the bathroom and just spit it out and be like and then come back to the table and be like

acting like nothing happened that was that food was so good I just had to take a break from the table for a second just collect my thoughts I would do that with the napkins right like just pretend like I'm wiping my mouth and really you're spitting your food out into your napkin all the time great move right there classic

Well, so what did you, before we get into like the, I want to get into your TikTok presence and kind of what you're doing with exposure and everything. But growing up and even up until you started this TikTok channel, what did you, I'm sure you probably heard, and Chris Kristen's heard this all her life, is that, oh, you're just a picky eater. Yeah. And there's a clear difference here. I want people to realize that between like,

quote unquote, picky eating. Normal childhood picky eating. And ARFID. This is a totally different thing. Did you struggle with that perception from people growing up?

They would call it picky eating, but they would be like, oh, that's like people will call me my last name Luber. They would just be like, oh, that's just Luber being Luber. So like, again, I'm like very dramatic. So like when I was in middle school, like my friends would chase me around the cafeteria with food. And like at the time I would just like play into it.

Because I'm like recognizing from like a social cue standpoint. Oh, I'm providing entertainment for the situation. I eat, I get friends because of that. So people thought I just was like very dramatic with my picky eating. But like everybody kind of knew that like I had this

weird or they would just say a weird relationship with food. Um, I would say people that aren't like outwardly dramatic about it and expressive about it. I totally can see how people could just say that's simply picky eating. Right. Um, but again, people knew that I would plan like where I would sit at my lunch table. Like if someone ate a banana at the lunch table, which was a very common thing in like middle school and high school, I would literally, um,

position myself the opposite end of the table and like if i couldn't i'm sitting at a different table and like people knew that so like it's interesting to hear about not just the presence of of food at the table because i don't get that sense from you you don't that well like think about any time you try to eat seafood around me yeah maybe that's the only thing though but i i i just haven't it hasn't been a big thing where like i can't

eat something like in your presence. That's not very common. Like it would go out to dinner or something. I mean, it doesn't sound like it's very like his was bananas, right? You're specifically, it was been hard boiled eggs. Like the smell of that, like it was for sure smells like I, so I totally get fish if it's from like a smell standpoint. Um, that was a hurdle for sure, which we could, we'll, we'll, we'll get to, but, um,

yeah, it's some people are really good at concealing it. And I think that's also part. I think if you have ARFID, you should be very extroverted, like in, in a way where people like, no, because in that, in that sense, it's going to be hard to like distinguish picky eating. And it's also going to be harder for you to like fit in socially because like,

They just won't know. Like, I think transparency is like the best. Yeah. Self-advocacy to stand. And it's awesome that we have this framework for it now that didn't used to exist. There was no name. People didn't know about it. People didn't understand it. And and so there wasn't anything that I could say, hey, I have this disorder.

you know, here's what it is. So it was, it was really, I did just get very good at hiding it. And to your point, I think I'm just, I think girls are probably socialized even more so than boys to just sort of go along and not make a fuss. Right. So I'm just very good at that, but there are certainly times like I'll, I'll sit at the table, but I'm not going to look at people eating a certain food. Right. I'm going to do other things to try to avoid. I think the first time I noticed that there was something about,

I always knew you were there. You didn't need a lot of different types of food. I'm talking about when we were dating. Yeah. But the first time I knew that she was like, truly like this was a whole different animal was whenever I would, she would always get a taco bell. She would get like bean and cheese burritos. That was, you know, it was a taco.

Oh, tacos. Bean and cheese. Soft tacos. You're getting it all wrong. They were soft tacos. Beef and cheese. Beef and cheese. Oh, beef and cheese. Yes. Beef and cheese, soft tacos. And one time she was able to find in her taco. With my mouth. Like I took a bite. She pulled out the smallest little insignificant piece of lettuce that had found its way into her taco.

And like, I was like, how on earth did you know that that was there? They tasted it and it was disgusting. I was like, I cannot believe it. And then like, is some kind of a super tasting something going on? I am a super taster as well, which I don't know. Andrew, do you know, are those, do those go together like more than in the average population?

Oh, yeah. And the second I taste it, it's done. It's ruined. Yes. Can't even touch it. And it's like... I remember I got Shake Shack and they put... Oh, no, no. It wasn't Shake Shack. What was it? I forget the place. I got a cheeseburger and there were pickles on it and I took a bite. Oh, no. And just a little glimpse of the evolution for me. Yeah. Like...

I remember like, must've been like seven or eight years ago. I got a bite and I just was like, I was so hungry and I was like freaking out. And I'm like, I can't eat this. I'm done. Now I have to buy a whole nother thing. And I was broke and it was just like very annoying. Um, then, uh, while I'm like two weeks ago on set, uh,

Same thing, but because of the journey that I've been on, I was able to just take the pickles off and then eat the cheeseburger. And I would taste the aftertaste. Because yes, pickles are strong. Yes.

And I was able to overlook it. And I remember turning to my writing partner, Alex, and being like, dude, I can eat this. And he's just like, that is crazy. Because in the beginning of my partnership with him, he would just eat a lot more food because they would get my orders wrong. And then it would just be passed off to him. That sounds awesome for a food lover. Yeah. Well, that's what you do, right? That is what I do. Yeah. All right. Let's take a short break. I'll be right back.

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All right, we are back with Arfid Andrew. I like that. I like your name, by the way. It's great. Arfid, it just rolls off the tongue. It's a great social media name. It really is. And so let's talk about that. Let's talk about the impetus. I'm sure your personality kind of lends itself to a social media presence because you're so outgoing, you're extroverted. But tell us the origin of Arfid Andrew on TikTok and social media.

Yeah. So I actually started taking videos of myself doing exposures about like five, six years ago with my writing partner, Alex, and I just didn't have the courage to put it on line. Um,

It wasn't until I saw... I don't know if you know My Arfid Life, this eight-year-old girl. Her name's Hannah. Yeah, I've seen her. When I saw her doing it, it was during this liminal time in my life where...

I started making this film and I'm a screenwriter and normally I like prolifically writing and I didn't have time to write and do the movie. So I was like, okay, I still need to produce content. And this girl, if this girl can post herself doing exposures, then I can, then I can, I can do it too. And the only difference is I wanted to,

Because I'm very self-deprecating as an individual. I wanted to lean into the comedy aspect of something that for me, like phenomenologically is very serious. Yes. It's terrifying. Right. It's super terrifying. So having that juxtaposition intention, I thought would make great content.

So I was like, screw it. I am just going to do it and see what happens. And that's kind of what brought it about. It was just having this period of time where I was like, okay, I need to still make content. And I think this would be good content while I make this movie. And now it's turned into a whole thing. You put your own social pressure on yourself. Like you're putting this out there for the world to see. So you'd better try it. Yeah. Yeah.

And it is funny, I will say. I feel bad for you sometimes because you're clearly anguished, but you do lean into the comedy aspect of it. And honestly, just seeing you put something on a plate, you can see the anticipation. It stresses me out. Under your breath, you're like, oh, God. I know. And I can feel, I know exactly what you're feeling when you're doing that. Chest tight, heavy. Yes. I'm not.

It's like, oh, man. Palms clammy. I was watching you. I was watching your video where you tried a pickle.

I think in this video you weren't, maybe you, I don't think you were able to try it. Maybe I can't remember, but, but the pickle was the thing. And I was just watching it. And even watching you, like my friend turned on her, like she started videoing me watching you because I was having such a strong reaction to even the thought of like trying a pickle of all things. That day was horrible. Yeah. That day was, that day was absolutely horrible. I,

I was out of commission for the rest of the day. I don't blame you. I was getting the spins. I was seeing spots. I just went home and literally fell asleep, like right on the couch. Like it was like a,

It was like a trauma response to me. Just shut down. Not like a... Literally, a literal shutdown. Yes. Like, I sat in my car. I was like, I can't drive home yet. I can't drive home yet. And I'm like laughing at myself. Here's the weird thing. I'm so upset. There's part of me that's like looking at me and I'm like, this is ridiculously funny. Right. That I'm responding like this. Right. And it's just such a weird position to be in. Right. What's on your Mount Everest of foods? Like, give us like...

Well, a banana. Like banana. Obviously that's like probably top, right? That's the peak. Like what else is like, it seems so outlandish that you'd be able to even put in your mouth, much less swallow. Yeah.

Yeah. Even the thought of thinking about that. Isn't it awful? Yeah. Like that was one real quick. That was one thing that I realized where I'm like, what did I get myself into? Like, it's a good thing that I'm like having this social pressure that makes me want to try more. But it's like thinking about all the things that I had to try. I was just getting panic attacks after panic attacks. We don't want to give you a panic attack.

No, no, you're fine. You're fine. So on my Mount Everest, it would be bananas. It would be like a pickle that I learned. I didn't realize I was going to respond that strongly to a pickle. Look at me. He's twirling his hair. I'm like tensing up. It's awful. Sorry. I'm sorry. I don't mean to make you guys set up. You're good. Even when I start thinking about it, my brain...

There's got to be some kind of... Starts to shut down. Yeah. We haven't even mentioned the name of any vegetables so far on this podcast. I was going to say, how about broccoli?

Okay, so broccoli is one of those interesting cases where it has to be cooked and presented in a certain way for me to eat it. So I'm not at that place of broccoli where it's fully on my regular diet. But if it's like... I've had broccoli where they smash it and they put a little olive oil chili flake on top, some salt, a little pepper. I'm like, that was good. I like it. It was crispy. There you go. If it's broccoli that's not crisp,

And if it's big broccoli, it's like, ugh. I like broccolini. That's something new. Okay. A little smaller. Yeah. A little smaller dose. Right. But with the Mount Everest, it's like, honestly, very hard for me to even... Think about it. Think about it, which is crazy. Yeah.

Yeah, like what was one of the I guess I guess what was what while doing this TikTok channel? What was like what sticks in your mind as one of the more difficult attempts? Peach. Peach was wild. Yeah. Oh, my God. It's so fuzzy.

It's so fuzzy. And even on the inside, it's got the little like filaments. It's got a big pit in there too. Oh my God. And then yeah, it's gushy. Things that gush out are hard.

Yeah. Things that have a strong gush, you don't do the gush. Because then it's like a huge hit of flavor all at once. It's just scary. Gushers were not really your thing. Gushers aren't really food. I like gushers. I like gushers too, because it's not really food. It's just like sugar. Exactly. I...

Cucumber. Cucumber is also definitely a big one. It's a big one. For sure. So what is...

What kind of reaction? Tell me about the reaction you got from your, as you started building an audience on TikTok, putting these videos out there. Was it, was it about what you expected? Were people like, what's wrong with this guy? Like, why don't, why can't he just eat the food? Like what's, you know, because sometimes social media audiences can be a bit harsh. So talk a little bit about that. The reaction you got. Yeah. So, yeah,

people thought I was joking. People thought it was like a farce. Like, like they couldn't tell if it was like real or not. And honestly, I was just like,

I wanted that reaction at first. Like I, I wanted that because to bring actual awareness to ARFID is to throw its legitimacy into question. So it's like the ironicness of it all is if you just come out being really serious, this is what ARFID is. People are going to kind of just like brush it over. Yeah. But if it, but if, but if you actually put position it,

such that it's a question, then they have to investigate and explore it. And it draws their attention in versus just like throwing it in your face and like, this is serious. Because what happens when you just say, this is serious, look at this. People are like, oh, I don't care. This is not serious or relevant to me. And I'm just going to overlook it. Like the ironic thing happens. Nobody wants to be lectured to. Yeah.

Nobody wants to be lectured. People want to have a self-discovery. So like an unfolding, a drawing in where it starts with an initial question of, to me, is this legitimate or not? Is this guy trying to make me laugh or is he trying to like,

show me something that he's dealing with and then what they find when they actually explore it it's both yeah spoken like a screenwriter right exactly as this but it totally makes sense because that's that's like what i do exactly with the uh you know i'm making these comedy videos about the u.s health care industry if i just were to tell people you know about this terrible thing happening in health care less people would be interested in it but if you make

make it funny. Like you said, draw people in, you're going to get a bigger audience. And I always kind of related to tricking people into learning something. Right. And that's, that's essentially what you're doing for our food, which I think is super cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Dualistically, I wanted to showcase my ability to make content too. Right.

Right. Yeah.

could showcase that I have an actual approach that works. Right. Right. Yeah.

Well, do you, so social pressure sounds like it's been a big one for you to, to expose yourself to new foods, but I don't know. Do you have other tips? Like, I'm not, I can't do that, that I'm not there yet. Like that sounds terrifying. I would rather do anything else, probably including death, then try some of these things.

So I don't know. Have you learned any tips along the way to get somebody to where they can try, you know, some exposure therapy on themselves? Yeah, totally. I would say...

If you have a good friend foundation, like for me, it was not just family, but really my friends. My friends are what motivates me to try because I'm never alone when I try. So I'd say the first tip is never be alone. Put yourself in a room where the spotlight is on you trying. So like, even if you don't have a social media presence where the social media presence is providing that spotlight, I would say what's even more

what's stronger is having like people you care about. Yeah. That care about you in the moment there in person where they're like, you could do it, you could do it. And it's just like, not your family. Cause there is something like horny where it's like mom and dad, you know, come on, you can't get up from the dinner table and do this. There's too much baggage. Right. Way too much baggage. But if your peers are doing that, then it's,

You're not totally inclined in the same way to reject like you would with your parents. Yeah. So I would start with that with one tip. Another tip is figuring out a way to present the food that makes it look desirable to you. Figuring out a certain situation or a certain context where you can position the food for you to eat.

Um, that's a bit trickier because obviously going into it, it's not like, oh, if the strawberry was, if Zeus came down and presented the strawberry to me, then I'll eat it. Like it's nothing, it's nothing like that. It's kind of like, you kind of just have to keep throwing yourself out there and like eventually like a food with a certain situation will reveal itself and you'll be like,

Yeah, I'll try that. Like for me, sushi was one of those where I was at the sushi restaurant. I only eat, uh, sushi where it's like the fish is on top of the rice and that's it. Like no rolls. I can't do rolls. Um,

It was like I was out to dinner with my great uncle and he got sushi and there was just something about the environment and the way he was eating it. I was just like, can I try a bite? Like I actively wanted to try it because there's something about that situation that allowed, like afforded me almost that ability to try it. Right. It was comfortable enough.

Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like you have to have a certain level of like wanting to try things like it's it's hard if you don't if you don't want to try anything new, you know, like I don't know how you get that internal motivation to begin with. But I think if you have it, that's definitely very helpful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Here's what maybe we can do, because listening to what Andrew's recommending, let's get you just real comfortable, like maybe in front of a nice fire in the fireplace, like cozy, get you really in a really nice situation, and then I will feed you asparagus. Yeah.

He comes in the room. Yeah. Comes in the room. Shirt off. Looking great. Yeah. Hey, honey. Yeah. It's just it's, you know, I feel like like I'm about to gag. OK. All right. Well, I feel it in my throat. Let's not associate me shirtless with asparagus. I don't think we want to do that. All right. Let's take let's take one more break. I'll be right back.

Hey, Kristen. Yeah. I know you're a big fan of Demodex mites. Uh-huh. You know, the eyelid mites? Yeah. They're on your eyelid? Uh-huh. They're just right there in your eyelid? Yeah, thank you. Well, what if they flew at you? Oh, God. Stop. What if they jumped? What if they jumped?

Would that bother you even more? Oh, it'd be even worse. Would that be better? Jumping bugs are always worse. Well, I have good news for you. They're not jumping. They don't jump at you. But they are there and they can cause like crusty, flaky, itchy, red. That's not good. Irritated eyelids. So I can tell you're a little bit grossed out. Yeah. It's a disease. It's called demodexblepharitis. It sounds like no fun. Well, but it's pretty common. And a lot of people don't really know about it. Yeah.

But I mean, these like, they are kind of cute. I gotta admit, just a little, just a little cute. Maybe a little cute. Regardless, you shouldn't get grossed out by this. You should get checked out. Okay. Go to eyelidcheck.com for more information. Again, that's E-Y-E-L-I-D check.com to get more information about these little guys and Demodex blepharitis. All right, Andrew, a couple more things. Have you been noticed out in public because of your

I really am. Oh, we got... Just give me a minute.

I feel you. I'm sorry about that. No, no. It's my fault. It's him. No. Great. I just, I thought about it too much. I went, I went there too deeply. Okay. I'm just making it worse. I get it. Okay. I'm better. Go ahead. But what I was going to ask you, Andrew, is as you've, as you've been posting these videos, have you,

either been noticed out in public have people like oh you're the arfid guy has that has ever happened to you a lot now oh really oh that's cool and it's and a lot of the uh a lot of what they say is like hey you're that guy that's scared of food yeah and and it's just like oh great i'm i'm that guy now um scared of food

But yeah, I mean, I would say it's just funny when there's people that are like freaking out and want a picture with me when I'm just like doing food exposures. So just there's like a couple stories where like.

I'm with... I was at a bachelor party in Vegas. And this is... I'm with people that... I'm from Philly. A lot of them were from Philly. And they just haven't seen me really since I did the TikTok. And they didn't understand, I guess, how big I became with it. And people were coming up to me and they're like, holy cow. I can't believe it that this girl wants to take a picture of you. And I'm like...

I have no idea. There you go. It's great that people are recognizing me as this guy that's scared of food in the sense that it's bringing awareness to ARFID. And a lot of people say, I know somebody like you. Yeah. And having it be a household concept, even if people don't know that it's ARFID,

Like the term ARFID, just the familiarity is key because that's what will help people understand people that are suffering from it. Cause like I had that, I had people that understood, even though they would make fun of me and we would make jokes about it. There was this baseline understanding of like, I have this issue. That's not just picky eating. It's like,

And that's really the goal of my account. So, yeah. That's cool. I love that so much. It makes me a little bit teary because, you know, I think, I'm not sure how old you are, but I think, I'm guessing you're younger than I am. 28. Okay, yeah, quite a bit. So I'm 40. And I can tell there was a difference in what the world was like.

For me versus you, right? Like, like the level of acceptance that you have experienced is greater than the level of acceptance that I experienced, which is amazing. And then it seems like now even, you know,

28 years later from you, it's growing and you're contributing to that growth. And I think that just makes such a huge difference in humanizing this issue for people like us, right? And making life a little bit easier for people that have this really weird, bizarre, but very difficult thing to contend with every day. So I'm so glad you're out there doing what you do. And I hope you continue for a really long time.

I really appreciate that. Thank you. Let's talk. Yeah. And let's talk about the film. Yeah. Yeah. What are you working on? So the film is called The Hunt. And it's actually a lot about how identity, how one identifies with themselves and how it relates to a society in which they don't agree on its identification. So like,

I'll just give a quick one-liner, but basically it's a world. It's called The Hunt. It's a world where there's only wolves and sheep. And we follow a main character who is a lone wolf who's trying to get into a wolf pack in order to kill more sheep because you could kill more sheep in a pack than you by yourself.

And the more he tries to get into the wolf pack, the more the world and others don't recognize him as a wolf. So he's at this crossroads where he sees himself as a good wolf trying to get into the wolf pack. And the world sees him as literally not a wolf. So he has to make a decision on like, how am I going to assimilate myself into society? And basically the film goes down this hole of what identity is.

And identity, basically the way the film understands it, is always in relation to what your fantasy is. So how you fantasize about your future self and where you're going to be shapes your current identity. So it's like identity is just a moment in time of yourself. And he ultimately...

uh realize he's just wearing a mask that he's not actually a wolf inherently and that underneath the mask is this void of possible identities and in this world it's only binary where it's wolf or sheep um so he essentially picks choosing to be a sheep knowing that he's going to get killed

And choosing that over being this like voidless nothing, because it's better to be the basically the message of the film is it's better to be assimilated into society, even if it's with a identity that you don't fully initially desire, because that initial desire is always situated in some arbitrary fantasy that that.

you, you come up with. Now, again, this is for the film. Um, so it's, it's better to be something than nothing. And it ties with Arford. It's like when I was in middle school and I'm running around being chased by a banana, I had a choice where it's, I can either, um,

assimilate myself in the situation and find a way for me to have a perspective in which I'm happy with, that it actually meets some fantasy that I construct for myself. And that fantasy was to have a fun group of friends. So I was able to position myself where it's like, okay, I'm okay with this identity because I have the relationship where I could have that fantasy. I could have that be achieved.

Versus me just like not participating at all and just not even having any relation to that particular fantasy. Yeah.

So that's like a quick gist of what the movie's about. I'm making it with my two best friends, Tyler Crystal and Alex Shandleman. And we're actually shooting it starting tomorrow. Oh, wow. All right. Good luck. I'm excited. Thank you. What a huge undertaking. Put yourself out there and make some...

something uh you know big like that a big creative project that's that's hard to do so i wish you the best and thank you also people can find you on social media at our fid underscore andrew on tiktok instagram and youtube definitely check it out it's fascinating uh i think this is an interesting disorder that i think people are a lot of people are learning about through your channel and through conversations like this so um yeah we appreciate what you're doing keep it up

Thank you. Thank you guys for having me. How was it talking to someone that suffers your affliction? It's always very emotional for me to find someone else. Because it's not uncommon, but it's not frequent that you find someone that has it. Like, I think in my entire life, so, you know, four decades, I've met a handful of people that have it. So it's always...

Nice to run into somebody who just knows, right? Because you spend so much time as a person with ARFID trying to explain ARFID to other people because it is...

You have to eat multiple times a day, and it's considered a very social activity. You do it in front of other people a lot. People really have strong opinions about food, and so there's always a lot of questions. So just spend a lot of your time explaining. It's so nice to meet people that you don't have to explain, and you just get it. Yeah. Definitely an entertaining social media presence, so everybody should check them out. Yes.

And let us know what you thought. Let us know if you have any guest suggestions. We're always looking for new, interesting people to talk to. You can email us, knockknockhigh at human-content.com. You can visit us on our social media platforms or hang out with us and our Human Content Podcast family on Instagram and TikTok at humancontentpods.com.

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We would love to come to Canada. I'm a big fan of Canada. Yes. Early adopters of the Glock and Flecken brand up in Canada. They are. Toronto in particular. We feel a debt to Toronto. So we'll try to figure something out. First time I ever got asked to speak as Dr. Glock and Flecken and not as Dr. Flannery. In fact, no one has ever asked me to speak as Dr. Flannery.

It was emergency medicine up in Toronto. In fact, people are mad when they find out your name is actually Flannery. They're like, no, I don't like it. They don't like hearing my real name. Full video episodes up every week on our YouTube channel at Glockenfleckens. We also have a Patreon. Lots of cool perks, bonus episodes, react to medical shows and movies, hang out with other members of our little growing community, early ad-free episode access, Internet for CUNY livestream events, much more. And we have all kinds of food at our town halls.

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