How China-ASEAN Free Trade Area 3.0 reshape regional trade?
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China and ASEAN have agreed to upgrade their free trade agreement to version 3.0. A major trade expo connecting China with Central and Eastern Europe gets underway, billions in deals expected. And the top diplomats from China, Pakistan and Afghanistan meet in Beijing to boost trilateral cooperation.

Welcome to Road Today, a news program with a different perspective. I'm Ge'anna in Beijing. To listen to this episode again or to catch up on previous episodes, you can download our podcast by searching Road Today. ♪

Our top story, economic and trade ministers from China and ASEAN, the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, have announced the completion of negotiations for an upgraded free trade deal. The 3.0 version of the agreement includes nine new chapters on areas such as the digital economy, connectivity in the supply chain and facilitating customer procedures.

A statement says China and ASEAN aim to send a strong message on protecting free trade and opening up. The two sides are each other's largest trading partner, and China and the 10 ASEAN countries will ratify and sign the deal before the end of the year.

So to delve into the details of the upgraded 3.0 version of the free trade agreement, we are joined on the line by Dr. Joe Mi, Senior Research Fellow with the Chinese Academy of International Trade and Economic Cooperation. The negotiation for the free trade agreement 3.0 version began in November 2022 and were fully completed this year after nine rounds of talks.

So compared to the first version back in 2010 and the 2.0 upgrade, what are some of the biggest changes this time around? And where do you see the main breakthroughs?

Well, we know that China and the ASEAN countries were very important trading partners. For both of us, the bilateral free trade agreements are our first free trade agreements with other trading partners. So we have tried to propose this kind of idea of using different phases to try to promote the bilateral cooperation between us. For the first time,

for the comprehensive version one, as you mentioned, in the year of 2010 and the second is 2019. So there are nine years between these two versions, but from the version two to the version three, there are only five years. So I would say that we have speed up the improvement and involvement of these free trade agreements.

If you are looking at the version 3, I think there are maybe three kinds of very important characteristics. The first one is that both sides are trying to expand the cooperation in the new areas, some of the emerging areas like the digital economy, the green economies, and a lot of things to do with qualification recognition.

For both sides, we are trying to encourage the development of new forces of development and that is what we are trying to see about the new productivities. But for other sides, they also want to benefit from that. And second, I would say that we have improved the connections and cooperation in the standards and the rules. These are really important for guidance about how can the enterprises do business.

And the third one is about the facilitation on the trade and also the inclusive development. So we are trying to encourage more entities to take part into the trade bilateral cooperation between us and trying to improve their abilities in the global trade regime.

The expansion into emerging sectors is a major highlight. As shown in the material, the 3.0 version has nine new chapters, including the digital economy and the grain economy, which are being included in the FTA framework for the first time. What specific impacts might this have on industrial cooperation between China and ASEAN? And what new models of industrial chain collaboration could emerge? Well,

As you mentioned, there are new areas. For the new areas, there may be no existing rules. So for both sides, we are trying to do something in the field where there are no ways. I think that for both sides, we have designed very important principles to try to give more confidence to the enterprises.

Well, for many of the enterprises, they are going to do that, but they are afraid that whether what they are doing will benefit themselves or be recognized by the government. I think that this agreement is trying to give them more courage, that they can do more. They can try to do what they have to do to explore the boundaries and trying to have better integrations and also better efficiency.

I think that is very important because for the new industries, they really are facing many challenges, including the efficiency, the technology, and also the role-based system. So if they have more confidence, there will be more companies who will enjoy these kind of benefits and join the collaboration in these areas, and it will have a better performance to benefit the people and the users.

So these are really important, especially in the international cooperation between these two major trading partners. The upgrades to chapters on custom procedures, for example, are considered crucial reforms. With all the recent disruptions in global supply chains, how do you think these changes will make trade between China and ASEAN easier? And what kind of benefits could smaller businesses see from this?

Well, if you're looking back to the WTO after the Doha negotiations starting in 2002, there are so many rounds of different areas of exploration, but the only achievement is on the trade facilitation. It means that all the members of WTO really take it very seriously about the trade facilitation because it will reduce the cost of doing business.

Well, for the version 3, I think that they are really trying to make a better use of the trade facilitation collaborations between our, you know, the customers. The customers are really important for the

companies to have a better facilitation like they are using the e-commerce and also some of the invoices and also trying to reduce the time of recognizing the products from other countries and trying to have a better collaboration on the rule of origin. So with all this technological cooperation, I think that enterprises, especially small and medium sized enterprises, they will have better abilities to do the trade with others.

because they are really small, so they do not have too many profits and the margins to try to use a very complicated system of supporting for the customer clearance. So they can depend on the collaboration between our two parts to have a better performance and reduce the cost of doing business.

Dr. Zhou, it's one thing to have agreements on paper, but making sure they really work on the ground is another. So since us young countries have pretty different levels of economic development, especially when it comes to digital tech and green energy, how does this new deal balance being inclusive with keeping high standards? What part could China play in helping with this?

Well, if you're looking at last year's negotiations, so we had held three rounds of negotiations last year in the year of 2024. And in these negotiations, the different rounds, we invited more than 400 people from different ASEAN countries. And many of them are coming from the least developed economies in ASEAN. So we are going to help them to have a better

capabilities building and that is really important for them to understand what are the usage of these e-commerce and also the green economies and they have a better understanding about the importance of doing that. So for the inclusive development, it is one of the main characteristics of this version's agreement. I believe that we can also continue to work with those partners

and not only for the least developed countries but also for some of the small and the media size enterprises they can use this mechanism to benefit from this very good products and solutions also be involved if they they want to join this collaboration in the value chain between you know different partners with the chinese counterparts

Dr. Zhou, the RCEP, Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership Agreement, has been in effect for three years now. How does this new China ASEAN FTA 3.0 version fit in with RCEP? And how does it help push toward the bigger goal of building an East Asia Economic Community?

Well, ASEAN is a main part of the RCEP and they are also the proposal of this agreement. So I would say that will benefit by supporting the upgrades of the RCEP in the future. We can try to know each other better and the collaboration between our two parts can form a

majority of the economy cooperation in RCEP region. So I think that's no matter the trade investment and also the practices and the roles, we can both support the development and the upgrade of the RCEP and it will definitely benefit the rest of the RCEP members like Japan, South Korea, Australia and New Zealand.

Beyond just economies, do you think this upgraded trade deal will help build political trust and improve regional security between China and ASEAN? For example, could stronger supply chain ties help them work better together when facing outside geopolitical challenges?

Definitely, in my understanding, when people are having better interest with other partners, they will try to align, even in the political side. But I don't think that we are trying to build up some kind of, you know, the units to fight against others. We are trying to do that in the

in the open ways we are trying to benefit you know the other the rest of the world by supplying them with better goods and services i think that's this kind of experience especially and economic areas can give the people of the china and other regions uh a better uh you know uh benefits and we will also uh support the development of the global supply chains to

strengthen the resilience of that. One last question. In recent years, the US has been promoting the Indo-Pacific economic framework, aiming to establish non-tariff trade rules in the Asia-Pacific region. How do you compare this to, would you see this as a response to the growing fragmentation of the current international economic order?

Well, it is true that we are under so many uncertainties. I think this uncertainty is a very important protectism, and the protectism are giving many of the cost for the international trade. So for most of these countries, we have our own benefits and targets. I believe that we should respect all of them. But if you are going to use your own targets to destroy others, I don't think that is a good choice. So for the rest of the world who are not going to support

poor technicalism, they will do better collaboration by better connections in the trade and investment areas. And that is definitely what they want to do because it's not only providing more products, but also giving them better abilities for sustainable development. Thank you, Dr. Zhou, for those valuable insights. That was Dr. Zhou Mi, Senior Research Fellow with the Chinese Academy of International Trade and Economic Cooperation. This is Road Today. Stay with us.

Hello, I am Dr. Digby James Wren, a political analyst and international relations scholar specializing in China area studies. World Today offers unmatched in-depth perspectives on China's politics, economics, business, technology and society. World Today's team of reporters and contributors provides valuable information from all of the world's major economies. I hope you can join me on World Today for the very best insights and news from China, on China and help to build a better understanding of China's role in the world today.

Welcome back to Road Today. The 4th China Central and Eastern European Countries Expo is underway in the eastern city of Ningbo. More than 430 companies from 14 European countries, along with participants from 9 other countries, are taking part in the exhibition. As one of this year's guests of honor, Slovakia is highlighting its strengths in aviation, electric vehicles and agriculture.

In an interview with our reporter Song Ruixin, Lucia Skalvaleninova, economic counselor at the Slovak embassy in China, called the expo an important platform to expand trade and showcase her country as a stable, long-term partner. Let's take a listen. Lucia, is this your first time participating in the China and CEEC expo? And what opportunities or outcomes are you expecting to see from this year's event?

For me, it's the first time to personally participate at China CEC Expo in Ningbo. However, in the past, I already attended several events that were dedicated to promote the talents from the CEC countries. So I already participated.

experience a lot of forums where people and representatives from the CEC countries attended forums together with the Chinese counterparts. And also when it comes to my expectations and outcomes, we are all expecting because I'm the representative of the Slovak Republic, the main aim is to basically

is to actually describe what Slovakia, what kind of country Slovakia is. And we would like to show our friends and all the people in China and also participants who will be attending the expo what can we offer.

because Slovakia is located in the heart of Europe, it might be that not many people have been to Slovakia or even have heard of Slovakia. So our aim is to actually let the Chinese public to know more about ourselves. And through this, we are bringing the high quality products to our national pavilion. And because we are really honored

to be the guest of honor this year. We really chose like a very specific theme

that Slovakia is good at. Besides the products from the agriculture and wines and luxurious goods, we would like to mainly present the aviation industry. And you might not know, but Slovakia is a really important country when it comes to producing products

small aircrafts. And it's not about the quantity that we produce, but we have really like high quality of small aircrafts. It's advanced manufacturing. And also because China has recently introduced the low altitude economy. So specifically in this field,

Slovakia is really suitable and would like to share not only our high quality products as the small aircrafts are, but it's also the knowledge that goes beyond it. In November 2024, which is last year, China and Slovakia elevated their bilateral relationship to a strategic partnership.

So how significant is this upgrade? And from your observation, what does it mean for the future of China and Slovakia relations?

Well, thank you very much for bringing this information that Slovakia and China at the occasion of the 75th anniversary of establishing diplomatic relations between People's Republic of China and the Slovak Republic. Our Prime Minister Fico have visited China last year in November and together with President Xi Jinping, they signed the strategic partnership.

So as the outcome, we can see more and more intensive exchanges, not only at the political level, because recently working as a diplomat in Beijing, we are receiving a lot of official delegations coming from Slovakia to China. And at the same time, diplomats

They are also accompanied by businessmen from Slovakia. So this is very good exchange of views, not only on the political level, but also we are improving the bilateral ties in the trade. As a counselor, Lucia, what specific developments or trends have you observed in the economic and trade relationship between China and Slovakia since this upgrade?

It's just the period of half year, let's say, something more than six months.

But so far we can see fruitful results because it's not only that individual companies are coming to China very often because before they used to have a visa policy. And since we are granted the 30 days of visa free policy, we receive a lot of questions, a lot of requests.

how to travel here, some advice. So people, not only from the business sphere, are really interested to come in person and to find their appropriate partner for the trade, but it's also in the sector of the tourism. And I appreciate it by myself because my family members can visit me at any time, very convenient place.

The one thing that is really missing, I have to admit, is we don't have any direct flight from Slovakia to China so far. You know, like our neighboring countries, for example, Czech Republic, Austria or Hungary, they have direct flights. However, let me just tell you a secret. We are trying to really push forward and to establish a direct flight between our countries. So let's

See, and hopefully there will be a flight to Slovakia. So I really wish one day you can fly to our country. Right. Slovakia is one of the world's leading car producers per capita. Like you've mentioned, the country has a strength of manufacturing and is rapidly embracing the shift or the change toward electric mobility.

including plans for a joint R&D center with China on cooperation in the new energy vehicle industry in Bratislava. How do you think this collaboration will position Slovakia within the global green mobility landscape?

It's a very good question. We can look from different perspectives and try to find the best and most suitable answers. However, as you mentioned, Slovakia is really the automobile country. Slovakia has been the largest producer of cars per capita, nearly 1 million cars per 5 million inhabitants. Based on such economy, which is really automotive industry and it's oriented in automotive,

It's just very near to switch to NEVs because we can see the major trend of NEVs. It's definitely China number one at this moment. I've been to so many countries and lived in many countries in the world. However, I see China to be the leader of the EV segment.

And for this reason, it's the best partner that we can cooperate with. Looking ahead and beyond the NEV sector, Lucia, from your observation, which areas hold the greatest potential for future China and Slovakia cooperation?

Beyond the car industry, which we already mentioned, I believe it's in education cooperation. Slovakia wouldn't like to be just the producer of goods. We are looking ahead, but we need to say we have to work hard to become the leader. Even though we have the potential and many talents, we have to...

take these talents and work with them. And if we can have the cooperation with China, I think it's really, I see the potential over here because it's important to take our students and to bring them to the local universities, to local labs, to develop in terms of innovation and R&D centers, as we mentioned before.

So on the other hand, the Chinese people can also experience the culture and the student life and expertise in Slovakia, cultivation of talents and experts. So how does Slovakia view its role in advancing broader regional cooperation with China? And in what ways can Slovakia's experience help to

let's say, shape the future of China and CEEC engagement? Okay, this is an interesting question. Maybe I'll answer in a different way. But Slovakia, being located in the center of Europe with the population of 5 million people, we possess a lot of natural resources, mineral waters, we have a lot of spas, forests,

And we are really a natural country. On the other hand, as I already mentioned, we are knowledge-based society.

And we would like to combine this together. So on one hand, we are the touristic destination. On the other hand, we are the incubator of talents. So what example do we want to actually give to our neighbors? This is the main point. I see it in the way that if Slovakia takes a lead, especially after the strategic partnership that we established last year,

We can become example for our neighbors in terms of showcasing the best results and outcomes, what comes from our bilateral relations. So let's say whether it's going to be in the NEV sector or it's going to be the tourism, we can always...

become a good example for our neighbors from the Central and Eastern European countries. Definitely, if we have a very positive experience in different fields, so we can share our knowledge, our ideas with the colleagues from different countries.

That was Lucia Skava-Leninova, Economic Counselor at the Slovak Embassy in China, speaking with my colleague Song Rui-Hsing. Coming up, top diplomats from China, Pakistan and Afghanistan meet in Beijing to boost trilateral cooperation. You are listening to Road Today. Stay with us for more in-depth analysis after the break.

Welcome back to World Today with me, Guiana, in Beijing. We now turn to a significant diplomatic development in Beijing, where Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi hosted the China-Afghanistan-Pakistan Trilateral Foreign Ministers' Meeting. This informal dialogue brought together Pakistan's Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Mohammad-e-Shakdar and Afghanistan's Acting Foreign Minister Amir Khan Muttachi.

Held for the fifth time, the trilateral talks focused on strengthening regional cooperation, promoting connectivity through the Belt and Road Initiative, and deepening counterterrorism and development partnerships. So to unpack the outcomes and regional implications, I'm joined now by Sultan Hawley, a retired Air Force officer and author in Pakistan. Welcome, Mr. Hawley. Thank you so much. It's my pleasure to be with you.

This trilateral dialogue comes at a time of continued regional uncertainty, especially with the shifting dynamics in Afghanistan and strained Pakistan-India ties. So how do you read the significance of this China-Afghanistan-Pakistan trilateral meeting at this moment?

The China-Afghanistan-Pakistan trilateral meeting, it holds, as you mentioned, significant strategic importance, especially given the regional uncertainties surrounding Afghanistan's evolving political landscape and the recent Pakistan-India tensions, which I'm sorry to say still persist.

Therefore, in this backdrop, this particular meeting is crucial because the extension of the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor into Afghanistan was a major outcome of the meeting. This move aims to boost trade, infrastructure, economic integration, providing Afghanistan with much needed development opportunities.

Therefore, not only that, but diplomatic normalization, counterterrorism and security cooperation and all these aspects were made sure to be discussed and the three nations reaffirmed their commitment to countering terrorism, particularly addressing concerns over militant groups operating from Afghan territory.

The trilateral dialogue has now been held five times with a plan to convene the sixth round in Kabul. How do you assess this mechanism so far and what tangible outcomes have been achieved under this framework? This particular trilateral dialogue has evolved into a strategic mechanism.

for fostering regional stability, economic cooperation and diplomatic engagement. Therefore, I'm pleased to note that with five rounds completed and the sixth round, as I mentioned, coming up in Kabul, the framework has yielded several tangible results.

outcomes now just to enumerate them they are strengthening the political and diplomatic ties the extension of the economic cooperation and the china pakistan economic corridor expansion the counter-terrorism and security collaboration as well as china playing a key role in facilitating security discussions ensuring regional stability and strategic coordination therefore i can

conclude in this aspect that China's diplomatic mediation has strengthened trust-building efforts reinforcing long-term cooperation. One outcome of this meeting is that Afghanistan and Pakistan have agreed to exchange ambassadors as soon as possible. So how do you view this announcement and how do you think are the key drivers behind both sides' current willingness to improve relations?

oh you see i welcome it because this agreement between afghanistan and pakistan to exchange ambassador it marks a significant diplomatic breakthrough it is signalling a shift towards normalisation of relations after years of strained ties

This development announced reflects the growing regional cooperation, re-endorses China's role as a mediator. Now, as to your question about what are the key drivers behind the decision? First of all, obviously, China's diplomatic mediation. China has been actively facilitating dialogue between Pakistan and Afghanistan, and China has been encouraging both sides to resolve tensions through diplomacy. China views diplomacy

both Afghanistan and Pakistan as its neighbors. And it does not like to see any tension in its own neighborhood. Now, Beijing's push for regional stability, it aligns with its own Belt and Road Initiative and particularly the extension of the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor into Afghanistan.

More so, the security and counterterrorism cooperation has been a key driver. Now, Pakistan has long expressed concerns over the Tariq-e-Taliban-Pakistan group, which operates from Afghanistan territory. And recently, Afghan commitment to rein in the militant groups. Now, this has helped ease tensions, paving the way for diplomatic normalization. Then, of course, economic and trade interests.

Both countries recognize the economic benefits of enhanced trade and connectivity, particularly through CPEC expansion. Then, of course, strengthening diplomatic ties will facilitate cross-border trade, benefiting both economies and the people of both countries. Then regional stability and external pressures.

The geopolitical landscape has pushed Afghanistan and Pakistan towards greater cooperation, especially amid India's outrage to the Taliban government. And China has been warning against external interference, suggesting a desire to consolidate the regional alliances. Mr. Hawley, let's dive into economic collaborations.

During this meeting, Wang Yi emphasized upgrading the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor and expanding cooperation, also called for extending the corridor into Afghanistan. So how do you interpret the deepening of this cooperation? And what might a CPAC plus Afghanistan model look like? Now, you see, your question is extremely important.

because I see it in the backdrop of China's success in its own backyard, how it dealt with the separatists and the terrorists and the people who were trying to form in trouble in Xinjiang province. China managed to overcome it through development. And the same rule applies here. The deepening of China-Pakistan economic cooperation

cooperation and its expansion into Afghanistan actually marks a strategic shift in regional connectivity, economic integration and geopolitical element. Now, let me tell you very briefly how this development can be interpreted.

First of all, strengthening regional connectivity and then the extension of CPEC into Afghanistan. It aligns with China's broader Belt and Road Initiative. Therefore, aiming to connect South and Central Asia, Afghanistan's geographical position makes it a critical transit hub facilitating trade between China, Pakistan and Central Asia.

Then, of course, we must talk about the economic growth and infrastructure development. The CPEC plus Afghanistan model would likely focus on transport infrastructure, energy projects and industrial zones to boost Afghanistan's economy. Then, of course, the investment in roads, railways and energy grids. This will help Afghanistan modernize its economy and reduce dependence on foreign aid.

Of course, security and stability considerations are paramount because none of these will progress or see fruition unless we tackle the issues of security and stability. And now China, Pakistan and Afghanistan have reaffirmed their commitment to counterterrorism, ensuring that CPEC projects remain secure. And of course, this can happen and not without improved security cooperation because

because this will help stabilize Afghanistan, making it more attractive for foreign investment from the enhanced trade routes while Afghanistan gains economic opportunities that could reduce internal instability.

You asked me what might a CPEC plus Afghanistan model look like. Therefore, very briefly, I see infrastructure development, roads, railways and border crossings to facilitate trade, energy cooperation, hydropower projects, solar energy farms and electricity grids.

Of course, industrial zones and the special economic zones, which we have seen prospering tremendously in China, some in Pakistan. But these attract investment and security framework, joint counterterrorism efforts to protect trade routes. And this expansion could reshape regional trade dynamics, making Afghanistan more

a key player in South Asian economic integration. Mr. Hawley, one last question. Could you please elaborate more on the security cooperation? Because security concerns were high on the agenda. So how should these three nations cooperate to fight terrorism and prevent external interference, given the complex security dynamics, especially along Afghan and Pakistan borders? This is very important.

The China-Afghan-Pakistan trilateral cooperation is a crucial mechanism for addressing terrorism and ensuring regional stability because along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border, the security challenges still persist. We were talking about many other things, but I must mention non-kinetic warfare through proxies still persist. And how this collaboration can be effective is by intelligence sharing and counter-terrorism coordination. The

The three nations, I'm pleased to see, have agreed to enhance intelligence sharing mechanisms, allow real-time tracking of terrorist movements, joint counterterrorism operations,

which could be conducted to neutralize cross-border militant threats, particularly targeting groups like the Tahrir-e-Taliban Pakistan. Now also strengthening border security. Pakistan and Afghanistan are working on border management strategies, including enhanced surveillance and military coordination. And China's involvement, it ensures that the technical and logistical support is there, which will be helping both nations secure key transit routes.

Then, of course, there's economic development to reduce extremism.

The extension of China-Pakistan economic corridor into Afghanistan aims to boost economic opportunities. Reducing the appeal of the extremist groups in infrastructure projects will create jobs and stability, discouraging recruitment into militant organizations. Thanks, Mr. Hawley. Appreciate your thoughtful analysis. That was Sultan Hawley, a retired Air Force officer and author in Pakistan.

Twelve U.S. states have asked the federal court to halt President Donald Trump's sweeping tariffs on imports, saying he has exceeded his authority. The states said Trump has badly misinterpreted the International Emergency Economic Power Act to justify the tariffs, treating it as a blank check to regulate trade. The three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of International Trade heard arguments in New York.

A decision is expected in the coming weeks. So for more on this, my colleague Zhao Ying joining us in the studio. Thanks for joining us, Zhao. Thanks for having me. What exactly are the 12 states arguing in this lawsuit?

Well, the 12 states led by a Democratic attorneys general from places like New York, Illinois and Oregon are arguing that Trump's so-called Liberation Day tariffs are illegal because he's misusing his authority. They say he is wrong evoking the International Emergency Economic Powers Act or the IEPA to impose this broad sweeping tariffs.

And their main point is that IEBA is for addressing some serious, unusual threats to the U.S., not for routine trade deficits or as a tool for leverage in trade talks. And they are also arguing that these tariffs, which Trump claims no court can review, are a power grab that bypasses Congress, which should have the authority to approve such

sweeping trade policies. So essentially, they see this as economic chaos driven by presidential overreach, and they want to want a court to just to just stop it. At the heart of this legal fight is the International Emergency Economic Powers Act. Can you tell us more about this law? And why do the states argue it doesn't justify Trump's tariffs?

Yeah, IEPA was passed in 1997 and is meant to give the president authority to deal with genuine national emergencies that originate outside the United States like terrorism, hostile foreign actions or cyber attacks.

It is primarily used to freeze assets, block financial transactions, or restrict exports and imports in specific targeted ways. So what the states are saying is that Trump has stretched IEPA far beyond its intended scope. They argue that the U.S. trade deficit or even problems like fentanyl trafficking don't meet the legal standards of an unusual and extraordinary threat.

more importantly, they say AIP has never been used to impose broad tariffs like these. And the states believe Trump is misusing the law to gain leverage in trade talks, which they argue is not what emergency powers were designed for. So in their view, this

This sets a very dangerous precedent where any president could declare an emergency and unilaterally rewrite trade policy and bypass the Congress entirely. A three-judge panel has heard arguments in this case. What kinds of questions did the judges ask and how did both sides respond?

Well, they asked both sides some very sharp questions, and the focus is on how far presidential emergency powers can really go under the IEBA. For instance, one of the judges, Jane Ristani, appointed by Republican President Ronald Reagan, challenged the Justice Department's lawyer on whether there was any limit

to what a president can really do once they invoke emergency powers under the IEPA and whether the courts could stop that. And the administration's lawyer, Brett Shoemade, argued that once an emergency is declared, the courts really cannot second guess the president's decisions. And he argued that the law gives the president sweeping authority to investigate, regulate or prohibit transactions

which in his view includes tariffs, even if the word tariff isn't explicitly mentioned in the law. But on the other side, Judge Gary Kasman, appointed by President Obama, challenged the state's lawyer by asking if courts should really be in the position of second-guessing the president's foreign policy decisions. And in response, Oregon lawyer Brian Marshall said the president's actions have to be reasonable and should be tolerated

to a real emergency. Otherwise, he warned that the law becomes a blank check for any kind of trade action a president wants to take. So in essence, the judges were wrestling with a central constitutional question, and that is how much deference should courts give the president when national emergencies are declared for economic reasons?

And what constitutes an emergency in the first place? They haven't issued a ruling yet, but their questioning suggests that they're fully aware of the precedent that this case is going to set. This isn't the only lawsuit challenging Trump's tariffs, right? Can you give us the bigger picture? How many lawsuits are we talking about and who else is suing?

Yes, this lawsuit by the 12 states is just one part of a larger legal fight against Trump's tariffs. And there are at least seven lawsuits challenging these policies. And they are coming from a wide range of plaintiffs, including other states, some small businesses and legal advocacy groups.

For instance, California has filed a separate challenge in federal court arguing that the president's use of emergency powers is unconstitutional and economically harmful, especially to the import heavy states like California. And several small businesses have also gone to the court.

For example, a Florida stationery company called Simplified has filed a lawsuit challenging the tariffs. The company relies on Chinese manufacturing, and the increased tariffs have substantially raised its production costs.

And also an educational toy company called Learning Resources has also sued the Trump administration as the tariffs have caused a dramatic increase in import costs and a significant drop in its sales.

And there's also a lawsuit from the Liberty Justice Center representing the small business owners and importers. And even tribal groups are getting involved. Members of the Blackfeet Nation in Montana are challenging tariffs on Canada, citing tribal treaty violations.

So together, this represents a coordinated legal effort to push back against what critics are calling for an unconstitutional power grab, where the president is using a law that's meant for emergencies to impose a trade agenda that bypasses Congress and destabilizes the economy. Well, that's indeed a lot. Looking ahead, what's the next step for this case and what outcomes might we expect?

The next step is for the three-judge panel to issue a ruling. There's no exact timeline, but a decision could come within weeks or months. So if the court chooses to side with the 12 states, that would certainly be a major blow to the Trump administration's trade strategy. But if they side with the federal government on effectively upholding the tariffs,

That would give Trump more legal ground to continue his aggressive trade agenda. But there's also a chance the court could issue a narrower ruling, perhaps allowing some tariffs to remain in place while requiring more justification for others.

And that kind of middle ground decision could still leave a lot of uncertainty in the market. But no matter how the panel rules, an appeal is almost guaranteed. Like whichever side loses, it's better to take the case to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the federal circuit and potentially all the way to the Supreme Court.

So this legal fight could stretch well into 2026 or beyond. So the legal battle is just beginning and the outcome could potentially reshape how much power a president really has to unilaterally remake US trade policy. Thanks, Jiang. I appreciate your take on this. That was my colleague Zhao Ying. This is Road Today. Stay tuned.

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Now we turn to a rather tense exchange at the White House. During a high-stakes Oval Office meeting meant to ease trade tensions and strengthen diplomatic ties, U.S. President Donald Trump has confronted South African President Cyril Ramaphosa with conspiracy theories about a so-called white genocide in South Africa.

According to multiple media reports, Trump presented a video and stacks of articles alleging unfair land seizures and attacks on white farmers. President Romaphosa has denied the claims, pointing out that the views expressed in the video are not government policy, and hoping Trump will listen to the voices of South Africans on this issue.

The clash came at a time of strained relations between the two countries. Since Ramaphosa signed the Export Prohibition Act into law in January, Trump has criticized the land reform law for discriminating against the country's white people.

To help us unpack what this clash reveals about U.S.-Africa relations, I'm joined by Dr. He Wenping, Africa expert and senior research fellow at Chinese Academy of Social Sciences. Thank you so much for joining us, Dr. He. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Dr. Hu, let's start with the Oval Office encounter itself, because many analysts are calling this another ambush, similar to the episode where the Ukrainian president Vladimir Zelenskyy highly an euromove in formal diplomatic settings. So how do you view this emerging pattern from the current US administration using this moment to confront

foreign leaders in such an abrupt manner? And what does this moment say about current state of U.S. diplomacy?

Well, this is not the first time, as you just rightly put forward. Now this is the second time. First to the Ukraine President Zelensky, now this time is targeting to South African President Ramaphosa. I think that Donald Trump now is really fond of this kind of way. Normally, when the country, he now wants to

giving, you know, the pressure. So he will choose this kind of way. Apart from so-called the close meeting, that close meeting will focus on something, you know, bilateral relationship in those real sense. And then he will invite this president, the visiting president, and then moving to this meeting

over offers and then opened this media. And then even come up with a surprise this time compared with Ukraine President Zelenskyy. I think at this time, even Donald Trump upgraded

this so-called like show, like acting show, because he suddenly put forward this video, even saying lower down, close this night, and then put on the video on, and then those clips of a newspaper, those coverage one by one, and then open to the South African president, Amalfosa. So this has come as a surprise.

even for South African president. I can see it because I watched that video also several times to see the detail. I can see South African president, I'm also even feel very surprised to have this kind of episode, a video and then the newspaper coverage. So this is Donald Trump. Now he's very favor and also

like even like this kind of a performance to show now he is the, even this is actor, director, you know, the actor and the, you know, director of all this episode. He likes this way, giving pressure to the president,

Now he wants to focus on and targeting on and then show this all this to the world, especially to his supporters at home in the United States. He wants to tell the message, you see, I give the pressure to the president directly, even in the open way. And then you see, I care so much.

about those white people, their life. You see even they all some flee away, you know, to United States. So he wants to send this message to the supporters at home. Of course, also wants to send a message to some other countries, for example, in Africa continent. The message is, if you follow me, okay, you got benefit. If you want against me,

All right. You should see the consequences. Now, turning to the meeting itself from your expertise on South Africa, how credible are the videos and articles that Trump relied on to support his claims? And why has South Africa's land reform policy become such a point of controversy, especially in the West?

Well, that video he showed, I think it's just loving things. Because President Lama Fosso rightly pointed forward South Africa is a liberal democracy country. So multi-party can be legally existing there. They can speak what they, you know, their point. So the video Donald Trump put on actually is South African, one of the parties called the

economic power, the fighter for economic power. That guy speaking, saying, occupy the land, white people's land. That guy is called Lamala. So that's a very radical, radical black

this economic rights fighter for blacks. So it's not a ruling party, majority seats holding party in the parliament. So of course it's not the policy of the South African government. So this point, President Ramaphosa already pointed out in a very clear way. So actually this is a very wrong argument

doing by Donald Trump shows he has no knowledge about South Africa's political issue. Second, that land reform law, also, you know, the South African government passed this law, already come up with a lot of those item clauses saying we are followed by like a compensation way and then all kinds of way. It's not saying taking away those lands,

by force and even saying kill the white farmers. So it also goes totally extremely similar by Donald Trump's own explanation. Then in your opinion, what kind of long-term damage might this meeting cause in not just the U.S.-South Africa relations, but U.S. and Africa relations? Yes, this time we see since Donald Trump got in the White House, now he has put in all the pressure now

seems focused to South Africa in the Africa continent. Why? Because obviously, you know, White House and also Israel, their team together, they don't like South Africa's foreign policy, especially South Africa stands out to lead the way to law should Israel in the International Justice Court and then successfully put Israel doing genocide in the Gaza and also even

Netanyahu has been wanted now by the International Justice Court. So this makes them very angry, both Israel and the supporter United States behind Israel. So this has been spoken out in a clear language by State Secretary of the U.S., Rubio. Rubio just in the day, two days ago, when he did joining this hearing in the Congress, in the Senate, and he said,

Because South Africa not always support, not support the US stance in the international, this arena, always against our policy, voting against us. That's why we will boycott this G20 hosted by South Africa in this year, 2025. Even saying we are not going to join G20 summit. So they want to give a pressure like 2020.

the country if you stand against us. Using this way to show to others, those medium-sized or even smaller African countries, to tell them now you have to think twice how to make your stance, is with the U.S. or against the U.S. Thanks, Dr. Ho Wenping, for an insightful analysis. That's all the time for this edition of World Today with me, Guiana. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time.

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