What has made Trump double steel and aluminum tariffs to 50%?
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Hello and welcome to World Today, I'm Ding Hen in Beijing. Coming up, South Korea's new president vows economic revival and judgment on martial law. US doubles the country's steel and aluminum tariffs to 50%. China tells the US envoy that Washington should get ties back on the right track. Dutch government collapses after far-right leader quits coalition.

To listen to this episode again or to catch up on our previous episodes, you can download our podcast by searching World Today. South Korea's new president Lee Jong-un has vowed to raise the country from the turmoil of a martial law crisis and revive the country's economy.

President Li claimed decisive victory in Tuesday's snap election, winning more than 49% of the votes. Li immediately assumed the powers of the presidency and a commander-in-chief.

The 61-year-old former lawyer called Tuesday's election a "judgment day" against former President Yong Su-you's martial law. So for more, joining us now on the line is Professor Qu Qiang from Minzu University of China. Thank you very much for joining us, Professor. Thank you. So first of all, Professor, what do you think has really enabled Li Jiangmeng to beat his main rival, Kim Monsun, in Tuesday's snap election?

Well, I think there are many reasons. I don't think this problem has been accumulated in one day. But basically, Lee Jae-myung is such an old soldier in the South Korean political arena. And also, its competitors have really been performing really bad in the past one or two years. So I think number one reason for the victory of Lee Jae-myung is Eun-so Ok's

uh policy and really get you know all the voters feel terrible and revolting so i think last year i think at the end of last year i think it was december the third or november the third um insoox marshall law has been triggered

probably the most serious constitutional crisis over the South Korea. And its supporting rate has been falling down ferociously. So as the opposition party, Lee Jae-myung actually has been benefiting from all these kind of dissatisfactory

and the discounted of the voters towards insolx policies so i think this is a reason one and secondly i think e jimmy also have its own attractions and its policies towards in ordinary families and also towards the whole society has also been you know attracting people for example he is very pragmatic he's tried to

lead the country and stabilize the whole economy and using a very realistic policies to restore people's livelihood and you know for example like developing a modernized industry to use fiscal policies and you know monetary policies to you know solve the difficulties for the small enterprises and on the families and also he mentioned south korea need to lead in ai in you know a high tech and

And also all kinds of the budget need to support families in problem. For example, in poverty and also cannot afford education and old age care. So I think this kind of policies actually, I think with a very strong flavor of the socialism. So I think ordinary families, those kind of non-privileged families really welcome it. And also I think Lee Jong-un himself has very characteristic. For example, he used to be

a you know the the mayor of the song nan city and after the gong kidu in a province and also he has been you know working very very long with the wind wind Jay in and also with the DPK the party so I think he's you know personal his personal you know character and also the personality can really attracting people and also who survived assassination so many

strong supporters or hardcore fans really like him. And also, I think other competitors in this time's election also have been facing a lot of problems. For example, the

Lee Jun-seok and also like the Kim Moon-joo. And their supporting ratio has been, you know, shattered by their domestic competition, by the other voters. So they're not forming a very strong advantage against Lee Jae-myung.

So I think this, you know, his own strengths and also his competitors' disadvantage all cost his victory. I take your point. Now, according to data compiled by South Korea's National Election Commission, Tuesday's vote saw the highest turnout rate for a presidential election in this country since the year 1997. What do you think this tells us?

It tells that the voters in South Korea really pays attention to the future of South Korea. Just take a look at the numbers. The South Korean economy is not growing in a very good situation. Inflation will still be there. And also, Trump's tariff war has been affecting this export-oriented economy. And also, they're facing lots of competition from other economies in the whole world.

I mean, and also you see there are realistic problems in the Grand Seoul region. So I think the ordinary household in South Korea are facing a very questionable situation. And plus, since last year, Insulox...

foul play and impertinence against the constitution really triggered anger in the mass uh you know crowds so people are are worrying about about the future is the hangang you know miracle a joke or for real is south korea's democracy a joke or for real so people are questioning people are confused so that's the reason why people are all

take it to the street and try to vote in the ballot box to show their choices for this country's future and also behind that i think there are a major outburst of the social

Conflict and the people's all kinds of opinions politically, economically, socially, culturally. So everything in South Korea right now are getting into a joint juncture moment. So people want to change.

So through this election, I think at least South Korean people want to express their willingness to change and also at least elect Lee Jae-myung. Lee Jae-myung is, I think, a reformer but also very conservative.

What I mean is that he follows what we call the midway. Always develop economy, not to play with politics. Always choose to cooperate with some other countries, but not to choose side with America or some other side. So take South Korea's national benefit.

and ordinary family's livelihood in the first place. I think that's the reason why people choose him. In a victory speech outside the parliament building, the new president said his first mission is to decisively overcome insurrection and to ensure that there will never be another military coup, adding that

"We can overcome this temporary difficulty with the combined strength of our people who have great capabilities." What do you think he is going to do specifically on this mission? And we know one challenge awaiting this new leader is really this social norm deeply scarred by divisions. So do you think it is realistic to expect Li Jiangmeng to heal the divisions?

well it's very very difficult i'm going to say that is you know is kind of somebody he survived a assassination and he really gets stabbed you know even worse than trump did in the assassination so here's a man with guts with courage no denial to that but korea's problem has not been formed in one day you're going to see many many problems and it's even beyond south korea the country itself so well

I have to say that the fate of South Korea is not even decided by South Korean people alone, even though they're trying to do so, respectably, but they're not making it 100%. For example, like he wants to control the military coup. Yes, a very good consideration, but you have to understand the military force is not quite in control in the president of South Korea.

in a very large extent, manipulated by some other force outside South Korea. And it's kind of an independent source. Once the president is not in line with some other country's government, probably the military force will still have a chance to, you know, overthrow this president or change them.

I think South Korea has made a lot of the progress ever since the Chon Do-Hun and also the Park Chung-Soo period of time. So South Korea has already changed itself from a military authoritarian government now to a quasi-democratic government. But still, it's very hard to change the nature of the military force in South Korea given its funding at the very first. It's very different from a

in a normal nation. And also talking about the jurisdictions and all the legal society in the South Korea is even more so. The prosecution society, the prosecutors is basically not in the hand of the president. It's basically controlled by some other country, big, major country. So can't the South Korean president take back the controlling right of the prosecution society

you know, society, you know, control the prosecutors to make them work for the government and not against the government. I think there's a big question mark ahead of us. I think Lee Jae-myung can face the deaths very frankly. He is a hero, but can he make his country to face such kind of pressure and change the whole course of the nation? Very big question mark. And also within South Korea, even let's put aside South Korea and the big foreign nation.

Within South Korea, there are also many big problems like the chaebols with the ordinary families, like the gap of the social income. And all those can be a problem as well. I don't think Lee Jae-myung can finish that course within his inauguration presidency. So fingers crossed for him.

South Korea is basically an export-heavy economy, and the tariffs announced by U.S. President Donald Trump would actually hit some of the country's major industries, including, say, the auto sector or the steel industry. So the final question before we let you go, and briefly, how would you evaluate the difficulties and challenges for President Lee Jong-un in terms of talking to Washington and reaching a deal on trade?

Well, Lee Jae-myung is a man. I think if the Prime Minister of Japan can do so, can stand up to Trump, I think Lee Jae-myung can do it as well. So to be simple, Lee Jae-myung will always put, as he sweared,

he will put Koreans benefits in the first place so he will try his best to negotiate with Trump to strike a deal with him and to some extent he probably will cooperate with Japan with China and with some other ASEAN nations try to certify

the economic position in South Korea and they're trying to find a third way. So I think, well, even though it's very, very difficult against the current situation, but I think Lee Jong-un is not in Seoul. He will do something for sure to change the current situation, even though a little bit, you know,

even a little bit difficult, but I think he will achieve a little bit something different this time. Thank you very much for joining us. Professor Qu Qiang joining us from Mingzhu University of China. Coming up, the United States has doubled the country's steel and aluminum tariffs to 50%. This is World Today. Stay tuned.

Hello, my name is Alessandro Golombievski Teixeira. I'm a professor of Public Policy and Management at Tsinghua University in Beijing. I am a great listener of The Wall Today. In my opinion, The Wall Today is one of the best China radio programs. In The Wall Today, we can get the best news and analysis in what is happening now in the world. So please, come to join us.

You're listening to World Today. I'm Ding Hen in Beijing. The United States is facing growing international criticism after President Donald Trump signed an order to double tariffs on steel and aluminum imports from 25% to 50%. The European Commission has warned that the move could lead to swift retaliation and raise costs for businesses and consumers on both sides of the Atlantic.

In the meantime, Canada's steel industry also voiced strong opposition, calling the decision catastrophic and warning of major disruptions. Despite all these concerns, the White House insists that the tariff hike is necessary to protect the American steel industry. This is actually the second increase in terms of import duties on the metals since March.

So for more, joining us now on the line is Liu Zhiqing, senior fellow with the Chongyang Institute for Financial Studies, Renmin University of China. Thank you very much for joining us, Zhiqing. Hello? Yes. Thank you. My pleasure. Yes. Okay.

So actually hours before Trump decided to hike these duties, many companies that could be directly affected by these duties could actually hardly believe that the plan was actually moving forward. What do you think has driven Trump to take this latest move? Does this represent a short-term tactic or do you think this would represent some kind of a long-term plan?

I think from his behavior, from the President Trump has shown his own personality to deal with all these uncertainties and disputes with other countries.

He has a very tough idea. When he made his decision, I think nobody, no other factor can change his idea. So this is the major problem for the rest of the world. His decision, I think, temporarily is a tactic. He will show the reaction and the response from other countries, whether he can find a good opportunity to make more advantages and to take some advantage from other countries. And secondly, also,

We cannot give up our hope that his decision is also based on the so-called long-term plan, because he is willing to make America greater again. This is a long process. It's not...

a short decision for one year or two years. So from both sides, from technically and also particularly also from long-term plan, from both sides, I think he has already made his decision to continue his policy towards the world.

So the United States is the biggest importer of steel, for example, in the world, getting most of the metal from Canada, its northern neighbor, and also Brazil and Latin America, Mexico along its southern border, and South Korea. How would you expect these countries or these economies to retaliate when they try to respond to President Donald Trump's latest action here?

As we know that all these countries that who are the main exporters of steel related products to America,

are having limitation on the retaliation. Because as we know that this is still production and export to the United States are the main business sections of this country. They made a great contribution and has a higher part of the GDP in their own country.

So when the retaliation to the United States, they always try to have the other field, for instance, the agriculture, the wines and the pork and other, the living, living hold products or even electricity or information technologies in this way. But in principle, I think that they still have a limitation. They don't have too much strong

field to have a so-called right retaliation. This is why the United States or President Trump is so daring to make such a decision to increase the double the figures of this

These duties on European countries, on Canada and Mexico, because they know that they don't have too much cause to retaliate against the US pressure. This is the main point, I think. Now, in particular, Canada represents the top exporter of both steel and aluminum to the United States.

And a clear message we're hearing from Canada's new prime minister is that Canada must reduce its reliance on the United States, especially economic reliance. Do you think he means it? And what kind of measures or actions do you expect this new prime minister of Canada to take?

I think not only the Canada Prime Minister, but also the other countries' governments have a similar attitude towards the U.S. pressure because they have to say, okay, in this way, because of the uncertainty, there's a pressure from the American side that we have to reduce the

their reliance on the US market. This is a very diplomatic expression because they know that if they insisted to rely on the United States market, they will have more troubles, more problems. But nowadays, they don't find any other way to absorb their export products, especially in the steel and aluminum products.

American market is still unique and very important to market for this country. So they are trying to criticize the United States, I know on the one hand, and the other hand also they try to find a middle way to see that, to tell the United States, if you insist to have pressure unless we have to turn to other market.

But as we know, I think it's not easy to find other market as big as the United States that could buy, import or absorb such high production from this country. So it's a

a way of bargaining from both sides. Both sides have to find another way, how to find a good way or middle way to mitigate all these challenges from both sides. But in any case, I don't think that Canada and other countries have the real efficient way to retaliate the United States in dealing with the high duties on the steel and aluminum products.

Actually, during his first term in office, Mr. Trump imposed tariffs of 25% on steel imports and 10% on aluminum imports. According to a 2020 analysis conducted by two scholars respectively from Harvard University and the University of California, Davis,

Donald Trump's first term tariffs created roughly 1,000 jobs in the steel industry of America, but, and I guess there is a bigger but here, but cost the U.S. economy 75,000 jobs in other areas, other sectors, such as manufacturing and construction. Now,

Some people, some analysts or some economists are nowadays expecting to see even more extreme job losses in the United States this time around. What is your take? I think we should remember at the voting, at the beginning of the election, Trump administration has announced the measures for the tariffs.

only for the purpose to ensure the high employment rate, to avoid the high unemployment rate. This is his promise. And secondly, also to avoid the high inflation. But both purposes, I don't think they have really realized because they already violated his promise during his elections. As we know, what the president

President Trump has done is only a totally roughly the expression of the so-called exploitation. This is a very traditional one, the exploitation of the other countries' interests. So they want to exploit this surplus value of other nations. This is the only purpose of what President Trump tried to do.

So we know that the difference between capitalism and socialism is that capitalism is the one to take advantage of other countries.

But socialism is to share the advantage of each other. So this is why we don't think that the Trump administration will find the right way to solve all these problems, especially for the unemployment and the inflation. Because he doesn't care whether he has high inflation, high living price, high production cost, or high unemployment rate, or high tension between countries.

He didn't care. So he wants to have so-called America great again. But how to be great? Nobody knows. In this way, I don't think that America will be great again, will be smaller than ever.

Thank you very much for pointing out what is fundamentally wrong with this logic that backs Donald Trump's imposition of tariffs on steel and aluminum and his so-called reciprocal tariffs, etc. And also thank you very much for putting this issue into this perspective regarding the ideological differences between capitalism and socialism. Thank you very much.

Liu Zhiqing, Senior Fellow with Chongyang Institute for Financial Studies with Renmin University of China. You are listening to WORLD TODAY, I am Ding Hen in Beijing. We will be back after a short break. You are back with WORLD TODAY, I am Ding Hen in Beijing.

Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi has called on the new U.S. ambassador to China to serve as a promoter of bilateral cooperation. The senior Chinese diplomat made a remark in a Tuesday meeting with David Padour in Beijing.

He noted that China-U.S. relations are currently at an important and critical juncture, and that equality and mutual respect are the prerequisites for interaction between the two sides, and dialogue and cooperation are the only correct choices. Wang Yi expressed firm opposition to the negative measures taken by Washington after the bilateral economic and trade meeting in Geneva last month.

He urged Washington to honor commitments made during a January phone call between the two sides' top leaders and work towards stabilizing bilateral ties. For his part, Ambassador Perdue pledged to maintain close communication with China based on mutual respect and dialogue.

For more, my colleague Song Ruixin is joining us in our Beijing studio. Thank you very much for joining us, Ruixin. Thanks for having me. So in your opinion and in your observation, how might Ambassador David Padua's previous work experience influence his approach to diplomacy with China?

Well, first of all, from my point of view, when I first look at his profile, what comes to my mind is, oh, it is so Trump style. I mean, as a former U.S. senator from Georgia and a businessman with international experience, Perdue brings both

political and economic perspective to the role. I mean, his background in business may make him more focused on resource-oriented engagement, I mean, especially in areas like trade, investment, and market access. So in the Senate, Perdue kind of served on committees related to armed services and budgets, which likely give him an exposure to political and economic perspectives.

So those are both key areas in China and U.S. relations. I mean, his political ties and particularly with U.S. President Donald Trump may also influence how closely he allied with previous U.S. policy positions or, I mean, seek continuity in certain strategic areas.

So overall, produced mix of business, political and legislative experience as a former US Senator and CEO of companies like Reebok and brings a strong background in international business and politics to his role as ambassador. So his work in global trade and corporate leadership, especially involving Asia would

shape his approach to diplomacy in China. So we have heard China's foreign minister Wang Yi emphasizing this critical juncture in the bilateral ties between Washington and Beijing. So what do you see as the most pressing issue, let's put it this way, that Mr. Padua helped to address during his tenure to stabilize this bilateral relationship? And how do you think

his approach diplomatically speaking might differ from his predecessors.

I think Purdue must prioritize restoring regular high-level communication channels between defense and foreign affairs agencies to prevent, let's say, misunderstandings from spiraling to conflicts. For example, unilateral U.S. restrictions on semiconductor exports and investment bans and decoupling rhetoric. Those all have created a climate of unpredictability.

So, Perdue should work with China to define red lines, I mean, avoiding weaponization of critical technologies like artificial intelligence. I mean, without crisis management, even minor incidents could trigger a chain reaction of retaliation. As Wang noted that stability is the precondition for all cooperation. So, compared with Nicholas Burns, Perdue with a business-oriented background may shift

a more transactional tone, focused on concrete bilateral interests? I mean, will Purdue aim to manage frictions through direct engagement and economic trade-offs, given the structural dynamics of the U.S.-China relationship? Let's wait and see. Hmm.

so in the meantime the senior chinese diplomat wang yi has also highlighted this revelation or a i guess it's a very important piece of wisdom from nearly half a century of bilateral ties that dialogue and cooperation are the only correct choices um so how does this reflect china's uh

a strategic narrative about bilateral ties and how do you think it has been received by the US side in recent years?

So recently, like what the Chinese Ministry of Commerce said, that the U.S. has seriously undermined the consensus of China and U.S. Geneva economic and trade talks by imposing AI chip export controls, halting chip software sales and revoking Chinese students' visas. So these actions severely undermine

violated the consensus reached during a phone call between the two heads of state on January 17th and worsened bilateral economic and trade uncertainties. So China's narrative of dialogue and cooperation reflects a pragmatic effort to stabilize relations amidst structural competition, but it faces headwinds in this U.S. political environment.

So it looks like US has shown limited willingness to cooperate. I mean, sustained progress will require both sides to prioritize crisis management and rebuild institutionalized dialogue and identify areas like collaboration to restore trust.

I take your point. So the final question before we let you go, Reixin, how do you think both countries can work towards this equality and respect that Wang Yi has mentioned and has emphasized actually as the prerequisite for cooperation between the two sides? Basically, I mean, I think it's very important to respect core interests of

like US must uphold this one China policy and China expects an end to interference in its internal affairs. And secondly, is to revive dialogue mechanisms. I mean, restore high level talks to address disputes reciprocally and avoiding conflicts. And then boost people to people ties.

like expand exchanges in education, business and culture to counter distrust rather than revoke students' visas.

And finally, I think it is to prioritize women cooperation. I mean, for example, collaborate on climate and artificial governance and public health where shared benefits are clear. So the key is to shift from rivalry to coexistence through mutual concessions and pragmatic engagement. Thank you very much for joining us. That was my colleague Song Ruixin joining us in our Beijing studio.

Coming up, China's DeepSeek releases upgraded R1 AI model ramping up competition with Google or OpenAI. This is World Today. We'll be back. In a world increasingly divided, can diplomacy speak with a new voice? From Hong Kong, a bold new initiative is taking shape.

The International Organization for Mediation, or ILMED, promises to settle disputes not with judges and rulings, but with conversation and consensus. Is this a fresh, flexible alternative to the courtroom, or a so-called challenge to the existing global legal order? This week on The Chat Lounge, we dive into the future of peaceful dispute resolution.

Feel the power of dialogue wherever you listen to podcasts and OCGTN Radio. You're listening to World Today, I'm Ding Hen in Beijing. Chinese AI startup DeepSeek has released a new version of its R1 reasoning model marking its first revision since its debut in January. The company said the new model matched the performance of top global competitors including OpenAI and Google.

China's big tech giants, including Tencent, Baidu, and ByteDance, announced the integration of the R1 upgrade model into their respective cloud computing platforms for developers and corporate clients.

For more on this, my colleague Zhao Yang spoke with Dr. Liu Shaoshan, Director of Embodied Intelligence with the Shenzhen Institute of Artificial Intelligence and Robotics for Society. So Dr. Liu, first, what are some of the new features of this DeepSeq R1 update model and how significant is this technological advancement?

Well, I think DeepSeq is already one of the world's leading models. With the update, I think cost efficiency is the key word, such that you can train on, I believe, a single GPU. So it makes it much more affordable compared to previous versions. But to recap, basically DeepSeq brings three major advantages over other models. First of all, it's advanced reasoning capabilities.

so that you can infer what you are telling the model and then try to give you a very well thought answer. The second feature is cost efficiency, such that compared to, for example, OpenAI's model,

I believe it takes one-fifth of the cost to train, so it's much more affordable. The third one, I think it's a big one, it's open source, so that anyone interested can deploy their own model using the open source infrastructure. These three key features make DeepSeek a very outstanding candidate for the next generation dominant model in the world. And how would you describe the overarching trend and development in AI, especially the generative AI this year?

Well, I think the key word here is agentic autonomy. Now people are building a lot of agents to carry out particular tasks. To make an analogy, a foundation model such as DeepSeq, GPT, they are like operating systems in the mobile computing era. They are Androids and iOS.

and the agents are the apps on top of it so companies are building a lot of agents penetrating many different vertical industry for example menace it's a very famous agent built on top of several foundation modules such as alibaba's qn it's capable of making very default tasks to carry out a long

chain of thoughts and to carry out a list of tasks by itself. So these are agents. I think agents will become the trend for the years to come because the foundation, the operating system level, the foundation models, they are ready. Now it's the application that will emerge and thrive. And what are the most groundbreaking applications for generative AI to date? Is there anything like AI plus, you know, manufacturing or AI plus others model?

Oh yes, I think that's a key point as the applications are penetrating into society, it's actually penetrating into every single sector. So it's going to completely transform our economy. For example, AI co-pilot such as the one on GitHub, it's going to replace a lot of software engineers. And today the software engineering industry is a 700 billion industry. So it's going to be completely transformed.

Second of all, there are a lot of the multi-model agents that integrates visual, auditory, textual input to support manufacturing education and even healthcare. I think that's an emerging market as well. Then if you look at some sectors like urban planning, digital twin are being deployed to do urban planning. Note that as of 2025, the global mobile ecosystem, if you talk about iPhone, Android ecosystems,

Its value is at about $400 billion. But Nvidia estimated the AI agent market would easily surpass $1 trillion. So it's a much, much bigger market we're looking at. And a very big market. So Dr. Liu, from your perspective, how close are China and the US on AI advancement?

As of today, I think we are fairly close. That's why the U.S. is putting out a lot of export control that kind of demonstrates that the U.S. is really feels the threat from China's models and strives to hold off Chinese AI development. For example, the export restriction on Huawei's Ascend chips aimed at limiting China's training capability.

And as you mentioned, the US is targeting the high-tech sector of China and AI. But China will continue to forge ahead and develop its own technological capacity regardless of what Washington does. So what do you think of China's potential in AI and semiconductors? I think that's the most interesting question. If you look at a very recent, I think it's a few years back, there was a congressional hearing in the United States

And then one of the speakers was Microsoft President Brett Smith. He stated, "The number one factor that will define whether the U.S. or China wins the AI race is whose technology is most broadly adopted in the rest of the world, because China-U.S. combined is about 25 percent of the global tech market, but it's up to the rest of the 75 percent to decide who wins the race." So it highlights the importance of global trust and adoption of these technologies.

But now the US is putting out all these restrictive export control, pushing people away from using US technology. So I think it's a golden era for Chinese tech firms. And what do you think are the main factors that are contributing to China's rapid development in AI technology?

Well, there are a few things, right? Talent. For the past decade, a lot of talent is coming back to China to develop startups within China. So that's why we see a thriving landscape. The second of all, there are a lot of AI applications in China compared to other countries. So the Chinese government is more open-minded towards AI adoption. So those applications gave rise to a lot of startups in the space. So it's a very good feedback loop. The third is capital injection, of course.

Now, the focus of the Chinese economy is shifting from real estate to tech. I think that would give a boost as well. And some Western critics argue that China's high tech sector like AI rely heavily on state subsidies. So how do you respond to that? Well, I think that's hypocrisy.

for example in the united states the chips act is allocating what 53 billion dollars to to bolster the domestic semiconductor manufacturing if you look at eu there's a european chipset similar amount 43 billion european dollars

euros onto the sector. And if you look at Japan, they are also investing heavily in this sector. So everybody is doing it. They should not just criticize China for doing it. I think that's a normal practice in global tech competition. And what do you think are the private sector's role in China's AI development?

Well, I think the private sector carries the main role. I think the public sector gives a direction or the government would give a direction. This is the technology we want to develop based on the analysis. But then it's up to the private sector to thrive in these individual sectors. First of all, within the next three years, they have to build up

their technology to win the domestic competition. Once they win the domestic competition, they go abroad, they will easily take over the market due to advancement in their technology. A fierce competition within the China market will give them advantage towards the international market. And could you give us some examples of private companies that are doing well in China in the field of AI?

Well, a lot, right? And if you look at consumer electronics, we have too many. For example, one of them is Anchored in Shenzhen. They're exporting power banks, making tons of revenue, and they're shifting their focus to robotics. And we see a lot of these small firms or small to medium-sized firms growing due to

uh technology adoption um and then for for chip manufacturing of course we have huawei but we have a lot more than huawei for example rock chip in fuzhou they're building these beautiful arm based chips that sells very well so the examples are at the end list and what do you think are in their dna's that you know make them so successful in this fierce competition

well i think chinese firms they are very hard working to start with but uh i i think the key trait is they are here to survive they're not afraid of competition although the condition within the domestic market is already very fierce but a lot

but a lot of firms are still able to survive through the scenario. Once they go through the competition within China, that will give them a very big advantage in the international market. The competition in the international market are not used to fierce competition like in the domestic market.

Dr. Liu Shaoshan, Director of Embodied Intelligence with Shenzhen Institute of Artificial Intelligence and Robotics for Society, talking with my colleague Zhao Yang. Coming up, Dutch government collapses after far-right leader quits coalition. You're listening to World Today, stay tuned.

Hello, I am Dr. Digby James Wren, a political analyst and international relations scholar specializing in China area studies. World Today offers unmatched in-depth perspectives on China's politics, economics, business, technology and society. World Today's team of reporters and contributors provides valuable information from all of the world's major economies. I hope you can join me on World Today for the very best insights and news from China, on China, and help to build a better understanding of China's role in the world today.

You're listening to World Today. I'm Ding Han in Beijing. The Dutch government has collapsed after Geert Wilders withdrew his far-right party from the governing coalition following a row over migration. Prime Minister Dijk Schoof has confirmed that he is stepping down. The coalition was in place for less than a year.

The route leading to its collapse came after Welder's pushed for 10 additional asylum measures. Many political leaders argued that several of Welder's demands were actually similar to policies already in the coalition agreement.

So joining us now on the line is Professor Wang Yiwei, Director of European Studies with Renmin University of China. Thank you very much for joining us. Thank you. So first of all, Professor Wang, does this collapse of the governing coalition come as a surprise to you?

Well, both surprise and not surprise. If we say surprise, because of the NATO summit is coming in Hague, the end of this term. So the government is collapsed and then it's irresponsible. I think it's a surprise in this regard. The time is surprise, but the collapse is not a surprise in fact.

Because today many European elections make the right win or either join the government or withdraw from the government or recent Poland and Romania's election also the right win or the

nearly be elected. So these are quite popular, the rising of the populist and the unstable government in Europe. So Mr. Welder's anti-immigration far-right PVV was actually the largest party in the coalition

But due to some reason, he didn't serve as the prime minister because of a political compromise deal at the time, reached in 2024, I guess. So putting that aside, what do you think this very fact that this party, PVV, won the largest number of votes in the Netherlands 2023 elections tells us?

Traditionally, the Netherlands is very liberal. You see in Amsterdam, there are so many so-called enjoy the freedom of the LGBT, the legal migrants, all this. But in recent years, particularly after the so-called refugee crisis in Europe,

So the anti-Muslim, anti-migrants movement rising. So this is too liberal in the Netherlands. At the same time, the shrinking of the middle class because of the globalization divided the countries, divided Europe. So with the shrinking of the common values,

and then also the debt is huge for the government. So the people cannot accept so many refugees or migrants from abroad. So that's the reason the far right, I think the force is rising. So that's quite normal. Wilders has told reporters that he intends to become prime minister of the Netherlands in the subsequent snap election.

Do you think he will make it? Some people say his decision here to collapse the previous government is seen as reckless, and this very perception that he is putting his personal ambition above the national stability could complicate or weaken his capability to form alliances or coalitions after the next election. Do you think these arguments have a point?

Yes, you see in Germany even the alternative party, 20% of the majority, the second largest party in the parliament, but for the government collusion they cannot accept it. So that's the reason in the Netherlands they accept, however they cannot be elected as a prime minister.

So that's why the vendors used this political crisis to let him to be elected in crisis period.

Now, in a bigger picture sense, Professor Wang Yiwei, what do you think this latest political episode in the Netherlands tell us about the far-right forces and their rivalry with other political forces or traditional mainstream political forces in Europe? And to what extent do you think this Dutch government collapse would matter to the rest of Europe?

Two points. Number one, the traditional political parties cannot accept the right-wing, particularly the right-wing against the European integration, not just against the globalization. So that's the reason the right-wing go to extremes, like a wondrous withdrawal from the government.

So, it's abnormal to get power. And secondly, which makes the other parties, traditional parties, more difficult to accept the right wing to join the party coalition to establish the government in the future.

Now, on Tuesday, French President Emmanuel Macron went to Rome and held a bilateral meeting with Italian Prime Minister Giorgio Maloney. This meeting was largely seen as a move or a signal for these two leaders of France and Italy to mend their rifts and disagreements over a series of issues.

amid a series of external challenges for Europe, ranging from the war in Ukraine to US President Donald Trump and the tariffs from Trump. Now, given the fact that the Italian Prime Minister actually has a far-right background, do you think this meeting in Rome on Tuesday tells us anything about the possible changes with regard to the dynamics of the far-right political forces in Europe?

Well, if we say so-called far right or right wing, there are different kinds of them. Some of them, they are extremism. They are anti-Muslim, anti-migrants, even want to withdraw from European Union, like Brexit happened. And also some people say anti-Jewish, also because of the

of the Ukrainian conflict, also against the globalization. So this is quite far right, two extremes. Some of the traditional right wing, there are not so many dangers to the European politics. So there maybe is a right, middle and left, traditionally the checkers and balance of the European landscape in a political scenario.

So now I think the most dangerous situation is that both anti-European integration and anti-globalization and then anti-populism, anti-elite. So the rising of the populists then make their traditional political values be diluted and then more unstable.

The final question before we let you go, Professor Wan, going back to our discussion surrounding the politics in the Netherlands, how would you expect the politics and the elections in this country to move forward or to occur in the foreseeable future?

Well, the Netherlands is a very quite free trade supporter and also attracted more investment from China and from abroad before. So now the unstable government and also the right-wing rising

I think it undermines the Netherlands' position in the European Union and also in globalization. Thank you very much for joining us. Professor Wang Yiwei, Director of European Studies with Rimming University of China. Unfortunately, that's all the time for this edition of World Today. To listen to this episode again or to catch up on our previous episodes, download our podcast by searching World Today. I'm Ding Han in Beijing. Thank you so much for listening. Bye for now.

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