136: Google is Done
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You know, a few episodes O, I told that my U. K. Server was dead and busted and had seized to be. I'm delighted to say, thankfully, that IT was the ups. That was the problem.

No.

that this case.

yeah. So here are the symptoms. Tell me if you would have pick the ups as being the problem. The system powers off randomly, you know.

So I would go to try and do as if I back up or watch a plex thing from the U. K. whatever. And the service is often unlike hm that's wid I wonder if my mother in all did something or there was a power out or something.

And then IT happens again a couple of weeks later, and then IT happens two days later and then ten days, just totally random. You come and just find the server just isn't on, so then you go logged into the I PMI and you try and turn thing on and the I P M, I still works. But whenever I guess tries to switch the computer on IT draws too much juice. What's the first thing that would come to your mind that something is not turning on?

I would just assume you're pop in a circuit or something. I know how works over there with your weird electronics. I asked. Pop in a circuit? Gf, I needs to be reset.

I could be. But then, but then the I, P, M, I wouldn't work because it's built right into the other board.

Okay, alright, yeah, I say paris supply.

Yeah, power supply. That's a good one brand. That's exactly where my mind went. So good friend of the show. All who came to the self first to meet up to this summer, very kindly only is about fifteen minutes away from my mother in laws house, where the server lives when, and took IT back to his house for the week to try and help me diagnose IT and a message me and said, alex, I got IT how you plug the in and IT came on instantly. What you're .

talking about about are you like? I'm sorry. What now try doing something. Is that turn off? Does IT overheat what's happening?

yes. So we just left IT for a week and IT was fine. So I bought a new p new ups and gave out the old one for because he he can replace the battery worries I can from me. And everything has been fine for about the last .

three weeks with a battery failure. You would hope you would fail, I guess, Gracefully and just in a power outage, not provide proper backup but still provide consistent power. I suppose by running IT through the batter, you're probably getting additional protection there.

But I find that ironic, alex, because ups s are so often thought of like something that adds reliability and stability. But IT is easy to forget. They can be a point of failure.

Well, this particular one, I think I think I bought IT when we moved to london or just before we moved to london, which would be, gosh, eight, nine years ago now. So it's getting up there in age. But you would expect IT to fail with some kind of a warning tone or yeah, something that mother in look ago. Hey, alex.

you is that really not just beat coming from the room?

Note, nothing like that. So the U. P, S, I got to replace IT has A U, S, B ports that I can plug you in a monitored via A P, C.

Was IT got A P, C, U, P, S, demon. And then overall scale bring IT into premise. This in this housing by the being, by the boom.

smart. Well, you probably heard there are buddy from canada is journey today. Mister bentley is here is going to be talking about a new nas he built in a little bit. Hello, brand, thanks for joining us.

Hello yeah always good to be back.

Ah of course know that you following along with our no goods ber conclusions because you are asking me earlier today about my config for setting up searching what kinds .

good fake ris well I was a nick can fag.

I wasn't onna say IT so you make me do this then I get in travel in the matrix dad, see this one happens .

what you get in trouble for out I.

you know, talking about nick, somebody always criticizes me somewhere return, we do IT well.

I don't. I used to, but i've seen the right now. So I guess these people are just, you know, a little bit behind the behind the time. I don't I don't I shouldn't say that, that in the audience golden rule of content not to do that.

you know else. We've seen the light though. We've seen the light that google might be done at least for a certain category of users, don't you think? Give me looking back at no google ber. I I think I would really smooth.

I haven't missed google one bit. It's almost up there with a jelly fin january chAllenge we did a couple years ago as being like a real nice surprise of all, uh, actually the free and open solution alternatives are actually pretty good.

And I do have to say I found myself also using claude and complexity basically for everything that's not just a straight up. I'm searching for a website or a business. Anything is kind of information or am looking for syntax, i'm looking for config or um for example, this morning I was trouble shooting a mechanical failure in one of my cars and working through the possible scenarios and nearing IT down and a conversational situation like with clara is perfect for that you know because I can say, k, there's no oil leagues there and there's been no metal shavings on the ground.

So can you eliminate all those possible issues? And then IT works through with me that's just so much more superior than search for that exact kind of thing if you use change GPT for anything. No, no, no.

I literally have not um I would be willing if I could pull IT in to like some sort of self hosted ChatApp just through the API. I'm really looking for something where I could have lama, anthropic and OpenAI all in one front end then I think I would probably use OpenAI a little bit more. But for me, perplexity and cloud seem to have a cover because class really good for like config and and development stuff and perplexity seems really good at current information. IT does like actively citing more recent information, so it's great for actual searches.

Yeah that you know I think my conclusion a really I put A A two couple weeks ago saying someone once told me a few years ago that I was gona have to pay for google search in the future and I I recall literally laughing in their face. That's never gonna happen. Why would anyone ever pay for google search? Like IT was endless commodity that you know the the ad model they have would would prop up forever.

But you look at the incentives of the the algorithm, its entire purpose is to serve you ads, right? Not to serve you good content. It's to serve you ads. And also by that same token, people are generating content. The is either in a content marketing stuff.

I saw something just yesterday talking about docker compose isn't enough and IT was literally a the arguments were terribly flawed, but IT was this great long, sort of ten minute long blog post talking about a whole bunches of stuff. And the arguments are really weak up, whatever. But IT ranks really well when you talk about doctor composing cuban etin and stuff because it's all it's on the top of hack news. And you know what?

I guess what i'm trying .

to say is that you type anything into google these days and think about the number of man hours have gone into people optimizing and tweak every little dial to have that piece of content rank more highly. It's not gonna be me or you with our independent media and our little personal blog sites like I used to be in in the good old days of the internet. It's going to be companies with seo content marketing teams that have spent time settling and I don't know accuse anybody anything but A I generating articles that have the correct keywords to yeah rank more highly. And google is just a victim of its own success in that regard.

Everybody knows that's why all recipes have like two paragraphs of their life story because they're trying to optimize for for google looking for that kind of stuff. Goole is looking for me and content and not just small short stuff. And so you've seen the perversion of web content to kind of meet that requirement.

And now IT feels like alex were at a period time where I can kind of see that monopoly google has on search really getting chAllenged. I don't think for everyday people yet, but the fact that you and I between search X, N, G, or what everyone called searching and claude and and maybe others, you'd try that or know, I literally did not need google. And to me that is astonishing.

Because go back even just four years, maybe three and a half, four years ago, and IT seemed like nobody was ever gonna top of google. And it's amazing of these tech giants. While they are, they're not beat yet. They are still doing great like new kinds of paradigm shifts come along that just stand out. And I am sure we'll around for very long time with very for but these are real .

chAllenges during this chAllenge. For me. I was I was doing a bunch of development work with terraform at work and try to deploy tail scare using terraform month p of W S. And I was coming up against the issue where I was providing the A P I K or the auth K. I forget which way round I had IT wrong, but my sin tax was wrong.

And so I just asked perplexity, hey, you know what? What am I doing wrong? Here's my code, and I just copy and paste the the actual terraform file attached IT to the query. So I had an extra context.

IT took me to the exact line of source code in the, in the open source Operator or provide a terrible m sorry that told me the exact index that I needed to use like like IT IT was no, he says, no, alex, this not auth key. It's A P, I key. This line of source code says so. And unlike, oh good, like that would just would never happen in the google universe yeah you you would .

be waiting forever post after foreigners in red read, trying to put IT together yeah .

and that for me was the moment where IT collect. And I just like, you know, I think give IT five years, maybe more for Normal, but certainly for people like you and I. We're already switching.

I think the critical mass will come either google will catch up and they'll figure out how the algorithm works because this is the this is the other part of IT. I I read a another post talking about how a lot of the original talent that wrote these tourne services that run the google searching algorithm, a lot of that talents left. And so a lot of these boxes internally at google are just black boxes. They have no idea how certain things are coming to certain conclusions. And I don't know how much truth there is to the act, but I could certainly see that we've built this complex thing when we just in the corner, not touching because IT works.

you know. But I was revisiting your goods ber kick off episode today and you mentioned default being king. And I wonder what it'll take to see those default change in where business? Because right now, you know early adopters here, you're going to find those sites and making them work for you like perplexity, you're going there to use them.

And that's from your own argument. Alex is not going to work for most of the population. So what's are gonna for those defauts to change?

I'm just going to ask perplexity, how much do google pay to be the default arch engine in twenty twenty? Does here for twenty twenty two, I see what IT comes back with. This is the thing I really like about these more context aware search engines like they give you the exact sources.

So like IT links me to a redit thread in a nine to five mac thread in business today. In apple insider, IT says in twenty twenty two, google paid apple alone a staggering twenty billion dollars to maintain its position as the default search engine in sai across iphones, ipads and max. Now that's just one small pillar that they are paying to be the default.

We've I don't know i'm i'm going to do any further as to how much they paid to be the default everywhere else. How much is the development cost for crime, for example? Like that's not fact in here.

So to answer a question, I suppose what would IT take for google to not be the default? Follow the money. Well.

I could see apple becoming its own default if they keep going with their A I strategy in OpenAI certainly is getting enough money to bump google out that place in certain i'll see.

yeah. Well, I mean, an apple like money, right? They like that twenty billion .

or they'd like not to spend IT.

Well, google is paying them now. It's a nice, juicy, little little bit of money they make. There is an anti trust suit that is proceedings.

And one of the things on the table is a forcing google to stop doing those deals. Mar may not happen. That's one of the things on the table at the moment.

So these i've been brought up in other context. Well, because google pays other vendors as as well and they may have to stop. And I think that's when apple would swap in something like apple intelligence, probably backed by being or google then or something like that.

And OpenAI just released their OpenAI search tool, kind of a soft launch, but they have launched an open a search engine now. So IT seems to me you're going to have the platform vendors build in their own google alternatives and they're gonna be very equality. And then you're going to have self host ers like us that are gonna to plugged in our own self hosted solutions. And there are beginning .

to be more of those exactly, just like perplexities. So i'm aware this this podcast is called self hosted, and you and I ve just spent a while like extolling the virtues of perplexity and claude. But perplexity car is a self hosted alternative or clone of plexi.

So IT uses search X, N, G under the hood, searching under the hood, but is already enough to do its actual google searches that IT then feeds into the local lama model that is using. And this is really nice, like daily training of all these open tools able to feed into one one another. It's not super reliable.

I span IT up for the the some of the time during this month to test IT out in. I found that sometimes I was sending empty responsible to searching, which caused IT to kind of hang in crash like going to some kind of like a race condition, waiting for input to come through. But it's just really exciting that we've got things like politic are coming through that.

Okay, they're not ready for prime time yet, but give you a little bit of time. And if you've got even just one of the new m format minutes, for example, you could use that as a fairly cheap machine learning server that with running olam on IT and that's gonna more than powerful enough to run something perplexity a for sort of the average home user. I think that's where is gonna eventually right now. IT needs too much GPU horsepower for the average person to even consider self hosting IT. But IT does make you wonder about the scale of the the chAllenge of of the the data into farms behind these big AI companies.

I know IT makes me wonder if if maybe in the future, smaller models just aren't more competent and you have people just running smaller models distributed instead of these giant hosted models. You know how the arc of tech sort of started centralized with time compute and in universities and what not? And then we moved out to the micropore, where people got compute at their local desk.

And then we move back to the internet, where we have a lot of cloud compute, which is essentially time slice computing again. And IT wouldn't be interesting if A I takes a path, these elms in particular, where they're really useful ones, take all this horsepower and all this GPU and all this big data. And then as they get Better and more sophisticated, you know, five, ten years, they're micro, and you know, you have them built into all of your phones in your laptops and your OS is in your individual apps and your hosted apps and all that.

It's just one docker container image that they can, can include. Now you ve got ta built right in and the game run on your CPU. I can see IT getting there. And at that point that these big data centres kind of become obsolete or they even get more powerful and do more stuff. I don't I don't know.

I protect you, get per plaxico in your pocket.

I would love IT. Yeah, i'm going to check out per plexicushion. Ks, I mean, that sounds like you maybe just maybe keeping I on a right now, but it's not a crazy docker compose to get all in IT. Looks like it's pretty reasonable .

and set up it's pretty nice yeah IT. So IT uses, like I say, olam under the hood and then IT searching as well. There's got a bunch of different search modes like you can do the standard kind of like writing assist, academic search, that kind of stuff. He also has funded enough a redit default search mode, so automatically searched, read IT for discussions and that kind of thing. But you always ask for what every google searched for the last few years has had ready appended to its to avoid the eos, really.

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I mentioned a tool called 奔头 box， which is a window manager of a macro s written by a good friend of mine. And at several people write in in the day, actually, I really enjoyed that recommendation. And the mac has been my sort of development platform now for a few years because after a lot of adobe staff, I do final cut this. And there's just nothing else that really kind of sits in that gooey middle where where I get a proper terminal, al, as well in I I swear a bit through this rationally on the show before, but i'm talking to you today through a brand .

new macbook. You got a new m four over.

I did yeah, i've got the old one. max. I say old? what? Three or four years old now? twenty? Twenty, right?

yeah. I mean, IT is old in terms of releases. Now it's three back, right?

I wasn't gona buy IT and then in factorial came out and i'm running my mega base are across multiple planets now, and the fans are going where as i'm running. And then I I realized that the m four, we was gna be Better because I read, read IT post about IT on saying that I did the m one max up grade from the m one to em. Foreign IT can run my factories, and the fans don't even sped up. So it's supervise.

I love how alex is determining. Factor now is did the fans spin? Oh, it's time to upgrade.

Yeah hey, man, you know, one of the fans and you're playing when you're trying to play Victory okay.

this is true because you you I must have added, I don't even know how many hours as well over a hundred since I came out like two weeks ago. It's kind of a problem. But anyway, just a quick side note factory o two point o space age has fast surpassed any dreams of expectations I could have possibly had for that game. IT is so good, I can hardly articulate to anybody if your brain works that way in that kind of slightly A D H D like problem solving software, developing kind of way, be where it's a dangerous game to make a self play.

So i'm just kidding. Story, can I jump right to .

the space and love space?

I onest ly.

a lot of the mechanics you learn on the first planet, they still apply to the next ones, but they don't. A really great. I won't give any spoilers, but there are three or four extra new planets now, and the each one has its own complete twist on the mechanics that you've learned on your home planet.

I mean, for veteran players like myself, it's been really weird to like that. I can't can't say anymore i'll spoil IT, but it's been really weird to just have to land on a new planet, be like ha none of the stuff i've done before with like recipe chains and stuff. Like none of that works anymore that we have to throw all out and start again. And it's it's been just a wonderful experience. So and welcome me to factorial corn.

Or apparent it's like learning a new programing language or learning next or something you have to throw out everything you already know. I could see the I could .

see the appeal yeah you know it's not it's not too far off like the yeah yeah okay it's so it's like switching from python to go or something you know and it's like, okay, I know that the constructs are kind of the same and I can Operate in a similar envelope. Er but ha, what's threading, mike? Ah yeah okay.

So anyway, coming back to the macbook, I got the four max with the nano texture display and it's it's like the best math display on a laptop I think that ever seen. IT is superb. And did you say .

it's the fourteen inferior? Yeah.

the fourteen. And that's great.

No, that's a perfect size.

I have the sixteen inch. The telescope provided me to do all my editing on for work. And it's it's a chunked y heavy big unpent .

lord invented is for alex .

absolutely. But yeah.

I think my next laptop has to before and screen just for the portable bly. I'm very famous. It's small.

it's light, it's wonderful and IT fits. I went in the pocket, but IT fits in a backpack without having to, like, do any kind of gymnastics or anything. Really doesn't wait a time either, which is very nice when you travel as much as I do.

But whenever I set up a new mac, always a good chance to test the nicki win configurations, and it's so nice to clone your git rio onto a fresh laptop, run the next star in rebuild command a couple of times, and you got your dock icons exactly where you left them. All of the brook apps are installed. All of the mac APP store apps are installed. All you have to do is logged in.

That is really sweig.

That is wow.

That makes IT just like A A super low effort, low cost to transition.

I think I should probably deal a video on IT before I send my old mac in for trading. By the way, if if you won in one max fourteen inch macbook pro for a decent Price, apple only giving me like eleven hundred dollars or something for this thing, send me a message and we work something out. But before I said that one, I should probably make A A video talking about my like mac nick set up because it's really quite dialed at this point.

I've got i've got IT so that I can override on certain machines if a certain file is present to have a different dock layout. But if if that file doesn't exist, then I would just do the default Darwin dock that I like. So like my recording machine has a custom layout and then all .

of my other max are all the same serenity.

It's really yeah it's really nice now when you're sitting up a new machine, never see you doing a lot logging in in that kind of stuff. And my bit wooden passed where is kind along. So I started looking for a text expanded application. We're finally getting into the death tooling corner part of the discussion.

I thought we you're talking about Victoria.

yeah yes, I kind of diagrams a little of life, but well, and I came across this tool called snippy, snippy dot APP.

Okay.

this is a tool that lets you basically, it's not quite light. Text expanded, which was kind of this magic, always listened to every key store roke like you wish to have IT in the the genius room at the apple store, where we would hype a certain like R, F, R, for example. And IT expand IT to ready for repair or something like that, or R, F, P, ready for pick up or something like that.

And then there were a bunch of like notes that we all had standard eyes across the team and stuff like text expand. There was really great in that scenario. But here I wanted to use IT to do things like type in my master bit warden password.

You know, i'm put IT behind the secret encounter or something like that. So the only I know really what the text expand the thing is, and IT has this lovely kind of like little shortcut t menu where I can do command shift ex. And IT brings up a few options system wide for me to searched through or can do command ship space.

And IT lets me searched the entire vault. It's really nice. And IT sinks with like cloud to, or you can think IT using sink thing because that lets you just do up a specific file if you want to, if you don't only use like cloud, that kind of thing really nice. APP is about thirty dollars, I think on the up store. So not cheap by any means, but it's it's really quite a will put together application.

Alright, so snippy dot APP IT looks like IT IT looks like IT does a lot more than I would even need. But the expanded stuff would be so handy always. Okay, collaboration. We'll think you're settings tomorrow .

so I can to steal, eat them yeah well, maybe not because he hasn't never, but if you're doing the same is right? I instill tail scale docker in a lot of different places these days and a bunch of other stuff too. We're unlike always downloading or curling the same feels like curling the same thing all the time.

And so i've put IT behind a text, expand a shortcut now as literally I do the command shift x tae and then or IT was A I tae actually for install taes go I tae and IT literally cols IT puts IT into the text box in front of view. Coal taes gaed up calm, whatever epix IT to to bash in a minute later, tests installed. So that kind .

of feels like magic a little bit.

IT is a little bit I could .

see using this for a lot of handy commands. IT does make me have a little mack formal sometimes because these apps are a great example of, like there's things that Michael s just drive me crazy, but then there's so many great community apps that you come along and some of them pay and some of are free, but they really fix a lot of this stuff.

This is example that now print. I want to talk you about your lovely shiny new server. We've been threatened or you've been threatening feel this bloody thing. I think as long as i've know new is that um yeah .

that's likely accurate. It's probably one of the reasons we became friends because we've been trying to, just like prior, the knowledge from that little head of yours and how I should go about doing this, which has evolved in the west five, six years, something like that I think yeah, as a little update, I was just remembering exactly a year ago I bought a whole bunch of hard drive with the new grand vision of creating sort of two sister servers, one that would exist in my parents place, one that would exist at my place, that I could sort of a mire data back and forth.

Somehow, a year went by, and those drives were just never really put good use. But I finally did something about IT with the help of western Chris. We got together when, I think, one day last week to try to solve an unrelated problem that wasn't working really like, okay, what's build branch's ness? And I had just so happens to build the hardware that morning.

So we took advantage of some time together and built me a thing. And it's a thing that i've been wanting for a great long time. And there's been, as you've heard on this show, a great number of, you know, Frank in builds trying to get towards this idea of just really just having a stable nas that wasn't like a laptop with the square of hard drives. And I feel like for the very first time, I might just be there.

Alright, so what were the goals for this project? Removing the squid of hard drives? Check sounds like.

yes, so far. Well, I have to blog them in, back in. To grab the day to off them .

at some point would be really be more like an octopus of hard drive. 哎。

now write in and let us know. Yeah, the idea of just having a box that's super stable and that isn't delicate to the point of, you know, someone coming by and unlock ging a thing that was really the idea when I say someone, I else mean cats, but the idea of just having a box of super stable and appliance that's really reliable is was the main go. And having hard drives that I could trust as well because i've had many, many heart drives over the years of being photographer with tons and tons of data on them. But they have never really been in one cohesive machine for more than, I don't know, six plus months of being stable.

You know, you should never trust a hard drive, right?

Well, you yeah, you told me that a while ago. That's why I have more than, yes, more than I need.

Maybe i'm just paying IT forward from our good friends d's island and jim, you know they were always talking about how hard drives are about to eat your face.

Yeah, maybe I should replicate my data summer first, but I don't know there's I think with a lot of self hosting, at least from my experience, a lot of IT also has to do with just feeling good about what you built and a lot of what I built previously felt exciting, but didn't feel like I had that stable aspect of IT. And I know that's a completely emotional thing. And IT worked for the most part to get me where I am today, but I never felt like I was a long lasting solution, both from hardware and software perspective. But I think, I think I might be there now.

We talked about this right at the very beginning of this show with wind, or talking about Chrisman ship. And this is a angle that i'm really beginning to appreciate the longer I dido self hosting is that you make deliberate decisions to replace certain services. In your case, i'm assume there's next class running on this thing, for example.

And over time, you start to assemble piece by peace this solution that remove your reliance on the cloud for for one of a Better example, because you not only are replacing these service, but also learning how, why you want to do those things. There certainly been several examples where i've replay, I can't think for most of my head, but where I replaced the service in the cloud. And then a few months later, i'm like, oh, i've gone back to the cloud.

I've stopped using the self hosted version. I guess that's not that important to me for this particular thing. So like this, this education play a big fact. Phy, as well as the ethical side.

Yeah, I think I am a long like basically a lifestyle learner. I just one of my best, most favorite past times as learning things especially related to tech. And that was part of the problem with the previous incantations of the solution was that I was also using IT as a learning platform.

So, you know, you go in there and you install a bunch of stuff, and I was sudden the thing you were hoping was really reliable. And like an appliance is all crafted, you've gonna head and broken. All the things that were stable and last .

sounds like prety afraid to choose day with me.

Well, I think the key now is i'm in a place to be able to have a couple device, you know, and i've got some smaller devices or some older devices that I don't mind for them to be the test device and for one machine to be the untouchable, let's say, you know, have be super stable and not do any tinkering. It's like a no tinker zone, but we'll see if I stick to that.

So what does the hardware, this thing look like them?

Well, you might recognize this hardware, alex, because you work real hard to get IT over the border here to canada. I purchased your old server components, so think you might know these parts Better than I do.

Maybe is the asa rack e three c two four sixty for you. Roof, the town doesn't.

Yet these from what I understand, where in your old server and they've got sort of what second life was a third life here in my my cave in the woods.

It'll be a second life. Yeah so it's based around the intel eight gene. I five, eighty, five hundred vulnerable CPU. Was there a reason that attracted you to such a platform?

I got to be totally honest. Your life, like I mention the squid previously, i've just taken whatever hard way i've had around that wasn't in use and put IT to this purpose. But I figured I have a surprisingly bad luck with hardware, both with compatibility in frying like some mother boards, by doing things I ably shouldn't have done. Uh, so I just decided to a trust uncle .

embrace the alex .

endorsement. And so when you said I got these parts for sale, I like if I could just take the tried and tested in true components that you've been running that I I trust your your building capabilities than I. I jumped right, right on that.

Well.

cause to be honest, I was, as you know, because I have mentioned this to you very many times, I have gone digging myself to find the right components in the right cases and other stuff in just can become a rabid hole. So I feel super fortunate that I can reach out to someone like you and just say, hey, what should I build in? You give me, you know, other grocery list.

Part of the groceries were in your house this time around. Well, listeners might remember from previous self host that I ended up purchasing a four twenty terrible to western digital reads with the idea of writing them like I read one in pairs. So two of these discs, i'm hoping I can build another sister machine that will end up thirty five hundred kilometres away at my parents place to serve as there sort of stable server as well. So the ideas to have two super stable servers that are built as close to identical as possible, that I can replicate data back and forth.

And so how you planning on doing that? Are you using that?

S, I knew you would ask this question, and I would have to let you know that I did not choose your darkling .

that fs Christ .

has got. To me, no, Chris west did suggest that I go that as as I F S, right? And we had probably a thirty, twenty or thirty minute discussion about like the posing coons of each and it's a IT can be a hard decision.

So I ended up wanting to go with butter. F. S. And part of the reason is I don't think I will be doing extremely fancy, like enterprise type things. And I also don't need those skills for my employ abilities. So that was one factor, but also, and this was the biggest one for me, I wanted to have linux native technologies on these machines as much as possible.

Would you mean open opens offices the next native these days? Do you mean more license compatible?

I mean that you don't have to install like A D K, M S module or like make sure you have the right kernel for things to work properly. And that is now comes out of the box in every single .

so which is a running.

you know, next of us, of course.

So there's no dms with nex, just a couple of lines of config.

Yeah right?

Someone else is already built the kernel. L four year is sitting in the binary cash like just waiting. True crist.

help me out here.

No, it's true. Yes, I think I think nick is probably one of the safest distributions out there to use the fs. I think one of the things that came up on our conversation that we did have around the native truly aspect was and it's good and bad, and I think IT just depends on your preference.

So z fs is an entire sweet of tooling, right? You have the pool and you have all of the zf s commands. Button of fess, with a few exceptions, is really using all of the standard linux tools that you use to manage any other file system on links box.

And so it's kind of handy if you already know that tooling from other distributions like you know like yes, runs Better F S on his laptop two, then you just continue to use the same tells you don't learn a separate set. I don't know. I don't think it's so big.

I think the zf s tools are actually really great. So I don't think it's necessary a bad thing to learn that, but this just something to consider IT would be the same thing like would be cash F S, stable and finally, shipping. It's probably going to make a really great home lab file system for people are looking for something a little leaner and minor than z fs. But IT all again, in the same situation. It's going to be using you make a fast and it's going to be using the tooling built into links that you used to manage all the file systems that just come built into the kernel.

And there's posing on to that. I think I think there's also some positive past experiences that played into this decision like i've had. But our fans on root running my tumbleweed machine here that I usually use for a podcasting, we we ended up the next day.

Why think that too? But that's a different story. You can catch a new plug. And so I felt like I had already positive experiences with button at fast.

And also, if I was going to run butter, I fess on root on my everyday machines. IT sure would be helpful to be able to do, uh, file system native backup PS as well using like butterfly and those kind of things. I know I can run s that s on route as well, but that feels a little bit expanded mentally to me. Maybe i'm wrong, but I think the emotions playing to that decision to do .

you feel like to pushing water up here with this decision, I I can send some kind of a not shame like you even say IT like i'm gona have to admit to you i'm not using that first like why .

do you feel that way? Only because I know you love that F S so much and you would certainly suggest that as the way to go because it's it's in your toolbox um most because i've .

been brainwashed by one of your fellow canadians for many, many years I .

think are you think is my .

fault no no, i'm on dude. Of course you is just like technically a very, very complete solution. So onesta you know not mine data that you're gonna it's so you know you're going to be a ginny pig for rules le brand and i'm actually really kind of interested to hear how you find the bus F S.

Tooling, particularly for cross continental replications. I assume a tail scale or some other means of courses available. Other vapors are available.

It's for me. It's you're just like the canaria in the coal mine and you're doing us all the public service. So yeah .

so IT yeah I don't know. Check .

that me.

You know, as somebody who iran butterfish, when I first came out and I lost data and I also had a system that couldn't boot because of button of fast at one point, kind of ubuntu fault.

But he was also because I was using Better faces like, you know, fifty, fifty, as somebody who saw his last data and lost to such a bootless system to butter her first back in the battle days, i'll test to the fact that you know, a lot of work from suits and from facebook. Facebook hired of several court developers many years ago now, and they're just been cracking out fantastic code. So IT is a pretty solid file system.

Now I think there's a real fine line though, between like when you use butterfly or Z F S for long term data storage. And that's what that's why mean we seriously debated that the longest of all of the decisions we made, like jelly fin, I was about a three second decision. But button fs first is the fs was maybe even longer than a half hour, but ultimately did come down to like a laptop runs IT and his hands runs IT.

I had pretty good luck with mine, you know, now I realized my old droid because it's just a tiny little old dried, uh, i'm using a butter. Fs, in a really irresponsible way to just absolutely bonkers way that nobody should do. I'm not even going to mention how I do IT, but it's it's been running about three and half a years now. It's ridiculous. Well.

I would love to know from those listening, have I made the biggest mistake ever here? I think maybe at least one of you currently on microphone, maybe I have, but we'll see in time .

tail scale dot com slash self host to go tried up for free on one hundred devices in three users, not a limited time deals. The plan i'm on since the beginning, it's a great way to support the show and tried out, then you can play them out their enterprise features if that suits you as well. Its tail scale, that calm slash self hosted IT, is the easiest way to connect devices and services to each other wherever they are.

And you probably thinking of tail scale like a VPN, but it's so much beyond that. IT is a secure remote access system that is also a match VPN. IT is also my land, IT is also programmable networking, and IT is also very easy to deploy.

Zero can think you get set up in just minutes. What I love as a self hoster about tail scale is that I can deploy applications and services just to play round, experiment with them. I don't have to worry about the security, but yet I can still get access and get the same services wherever I go.

And I used dn s resolution on my tail net. So I just access everything by name from every system my own and guys I own way to make systems. It's ridiculous.

And it's so nice at the lament, old man, but the bookMarks that I have for, like whatever IT might be, just work wherever I am. Everything's the same time at work. If I am my phone, if I at home, friends house, that all just works because I have a mesh network that is powered by wired guard, everything's on that tailed.

And that creates essentially, what to me, is perceived as a flat network, very simple, but you can do IT over complex instruction cure. Some of my nodes are on V, P, S. Some of them are vm, ms, running behind a net on a machine.

Some of them are mobile devices, some of them are rasberry pie, some of them are containers, and just the application container is on the tail that directly, and all of that is represented in a flat network that is easy to understand, easy to set up. And then I have all kinds of options like sharing I can do is to security control, access to devices in services I can tie in with my existing ethnicity infrastructure. So everybody that has a jupiter broadcasting account with arsenicum provider also gets access to the tAiling.

And I can set their permissions on what they can can get access to. It's really powerful. You've ve got ta tried out because IT absolutely fundamentally changes the self hostel in homa b game.

So tried to out support the show and get up for free up to one hundred devices, not a limited time trial. Its tail scale dotcom slash self hosted. That tail scale ducks on slash self hosted.

So one of the things that shiny new server of yours does IT does really well, actually, is video transcoding. Using the quick sink video in code. Are you doing much video .

encoding at all? I hope to ah I will admit i've had issues getting quick sink in all of that set up properly. So maybe we need a little session together. But yes, that's that's the hope .

because you're running running jelly fin as a next module.

right? Yeah so yeah probably just .

I now use your permissions for the quick sink device. But i've got this dream that one day we're onna be able to just have quick sink video, encode somewhere on the network and run jelly fin on this super low power ative or other, though like something super basic, I us, we pie, and that's gonna enough to do to front end. And maybe even some of the service side processing to beat the actual video encoding gets distributed across the network with me on this well.

oh, o alex, it's Christmas in november because I got a gift for you.

I thought you might.

Now it's not actually affiloir with the handbreadth ject, but it's called handbrake web. And IT is a self hostile platform that gives you a headless hand break web front end that does distributed transcoding. You can leverage multiple devices and send out transcoding jobs as workers to them, or you can all have to run in on one box.

IT gives you a web in interface to manage all of this and to create transcoding cues. So you could actually like maybe you're going on a trip and you want a transcoding something to a smaller format, you could stack up many, many, many multiple videos and then have a dispatched those videos throughout your network to transcribe them or do IT all in one big box. And they're going on adding a preset creation.

They have some built in. But what I think is pretty need is you can just launch the hand break desktop APP, which is a great APP. You can settle all the settings you want exports, that is A J on preset, and then upload right in a handbrake web.

Bob, your uncle IT brings all of. And IT does that exact in coding because it's using hand break C A I under the hood and it's slick. IT does right now, directory monitoring.

So i've created a directory that's on a sam basha and also, of course, of S F T P. You just drop the job in there and it's off the racist. So like a network share work really well in this kind. Oh, nice. And they have other kinds of features are going to have like no user accounts and other things, but it's it's for which you need right now.

And I kind of stuff, it's great. So you could also just have a network. You know, I used the word drop box, but you literally just drop a video file into a directory. And then a few minutes later, IT spits out something with a predetermined codec.

Oh, man, yeah. And I want to use this so much. Back in the day, we were manually encoding like an hd version and a mobile version and a tiny version, we would create three different versions of the video of because that's just kind of how the distribution worked back in the day. And how great would I be to just design a different PC to each job. So they're all three simultaneous running and then IT just spits them back out in where you have defined the output to go.

H H, one machine has a proper in video of GPU in IT. So that does the four k one. Yeah, yeah. That nice, tasty.

I mean, I think the fact you have to create the process externally IT comes with the defauts hand break ones. But if you want to create them externally, like the author of the project, seems to think like that's a big missing feature that they want to add, like a precent created in there. But you could I couldn't theory like I could say, oh, alex, I just think this is the best video encoding preset and I could send you the j on file. You could import IT and now you do your codes to that back.

I don't know much about video encoding if a month like youtube does a terrible job because you see all the compressions artifacts in a youtube all the time like I know that looks bad compared to what I see in my editor, but like why IT looks back, I couldn't tell you.

So yeah, really they really match IT, don't they?

Can we just have like a directory of community source, like a repos, like presets .

yeah that be interesting .

kind like a docker hub of presets for handbag yeah yet or like .

or like a get hub list of something of great hand break presets. One for like mobile travel you're watching on the tablet. I tend to like to not really, really encode my video as possible, but there are times where i've needed to do like before a trip of batches and coding or you content like I was thinking for J, B. Maybe this is something that can be useful part of our back in, but then the front end aspect of IT is available for the crew for one often codes.

Remember not. Yeah, that would be, that would be really nice if you see those videos on youtube where people take like an old V, H, S. Tape and they record A V H S into A V H S and then do IT about twenty times later, they show you the end result. And it's just complete compressed garbage is just just terrible.

Oh yeah. Have you seen the market mars video where he like uploads his youtube video like a hundred times at two .

hundred times the same thing, right?

The youtube encoding real bad. It's really bad. But yeah, if anybody has anything else out there, are like this distributed networking coating, or like a hosted video and coating nap with the most presets for traveling and what not boosted in, please, because right now i'm thinking this is IT, but the space could be Better.

Maybe there's more things out there and i'd love to know. Speaking of boost, we have some great boost to get into. And our first one came in from wine eagle, who sent in a big old bowler boost a row of sticks, one hundred and eleven thousand, one hundred and one sats, and he said as an email, which I believe we read, because I go through the inbox and read all the emails.

So thank you very much for that. Why in eagle coming over from this week bitcoin into the self host podcast? It's nice to have you a very.

very much anonymous boosted in fifty five thousand, five hundred and fifty five sets. Oh, that's not something special around these parts. No, I mean, he feels like it's .

IT means that does have meaning to you think I just know if I know what IT is.

I fives, oh, that this, my fives do you offer from a long time? Listener started with the linux action show way back when. And this listen finally got albee all set up. So thank you for all you do the J B crew .

that rimes, that's awesome. Thank you. Ony mous. You know, i've been seeing a nice uptake of people getting their self hosted alby hub seps and trying this out.

I mean, why not? right? It's pretty cool support when your favorite podcast with a whole sell host set up.

I thought you with last two back in the good old days.

Well, you making me feel old.

Yes, me too. Me too. Those one of the first linux things I ever took in as learn linux.

So thank you. Wow, wow, wow, wow. Ginko outcomes in with ten thousand sets. My in next cloud instance turned twelve years old this year. I never had many issues with IT.

One time I moved more of its features to specialized apps like logs at an image. But I don't think I would have found those apps have those features has not been available in next cloud in the first place. Also, the next cloud ended.

APP has never complained about being at the sink with the server. thanks. Next cloud, look at your image. Well, that's a nice report.

Yeah, image does love to do that. They released updates all the time, yes. And then unless, well, the phone updates because it's through the apple APP store or the google play store, whatever and then IT, you loaded IT up and he goes, hey, by the way, did you know your server is point one versions like, yeah I don't care please can remember we're not allowed .

to complain about that mean much trouble I got in when we complain about that last .

time yeah I yeah but you're right IT is .

a thing um and you know people were right in whether you should use such as such the auto update, your image container. But at every now then there's a breaking change. So I wanted do IT manually. IT is a thing. I still love the project, but it's a thing, it's a thing.

It's a good time. We got print on this episode talking about next cloud being twelve years old.

Yeah, wow. That's a long install. Our next boost, not exactly the next cloud winds. All read IT is eighteen thousand three hundred and forty five sats by z max. I had crisis issue with next club locking after being recreated due to one of my phone clients trying to log in.

Yeah, I didn't even think about IT that my android to be in trying to knock on the door all night, I have to uninstall the next, cut up and clear all its data, which persists between installs for reasons I do not understand. Also, regarding video on linux, I think this is the strongest case for a boom to here, especially for gaming. Like alex was talking about.

I have a thirty eighty running, playing on a bunch. And while I didn't have the issues alex is describing on a bunch twenty, I haven't sense I had installed the proprietary drivers through the software center. I know it's boring on the most recent version of a bunch every year, just having had a problem since fashion stalls have gone flawless ly in any game in proton, D, B, that's of gold are hired, just works perfectly for our next they all can work.

But we had six thirty on a tuesday. You just want to play a game with your friends. You reach for that a boom too. Ah I mean, yeah if it's if it's good experience, it's a good experience. I think the destroys in general are getting Better about the invidia driver like for door is like a one click install now right? And with nick, you just put in the config once and IT always makes your bills with the proper and video driver and then like you say, you burn to they can have the one click there in the upstart like the the urban to probably has the peak experience when you come to game and I will admit but the invites ents overall is getting .

really good about pop. O, S, that is something been two base.

Yeah, yeah. I think that's resolved too. Probably pretty good experience that without .

imagine they all got their problems. So I mean, I just did a fresh and still the windows big again because Victory oria was playing up. So, you know, need to give the factory room to grow on a proper install.

And the shenanigans that windows eleven makes you go through these days to install just a local only account like I had to disconnect the network cable and then do shift f ten. And then there are some like out of box reset command d have to type in a reboots. And then IT tries to restart the wizard.

clap your hands twice, jump up and down yeah.

And then when I can't find the internet connection, that's when IT lets you finally create a local local account.

Crazy or john bravo boosted in another of five thousand, five hundred and fifty five sets. I used to run next cloud in containers on a bunch that was completely unreliable and very frustrating. Recently, I started over with naxos and the next club, nix OS module.

It's been running with a hundred percent up time for many months now, and i'll never go back. You can provide next set of my cold dead hands. H, yeah. This guy.

so, yeah. And I will say I .

am very happy. So I, I, I haven't fully set up my next cloud install with my new kind of nick based install that talked about last episode. But since last episode, everything I have set up as one work and really great rapport with the performance. So so far, I think problem solved for me. And I agree, you can provide out .

my all that we'll see how IT does with my file upload from this episode. Our centralized self hosted like how hosts get the files to drew our editor. Is we upload them to a sell hosted next cloud server. And the last four, five episodes problems, ever since I got my fire up, look like I can't handle my light speed.

Apparently your felt, we thought so that that was that till this weekend when I upload files from the studio and had the same problem and I see is going to get crap up. Oh, okay. So I think it's I don't know.

We use s three storage as a back end for next cloud. We thought we'd solved IT with file lock king and we'd had a couple of successful uploads. And then we are I don't actually know what the nature of IT is yet. This stinks because IT looks like the files upload and they even show the correct file size in like the web browser. But when you go to download of them, that's when you find out it's like going .

to invalid you are or something you message do. That happened again.

Yeah yeah.

You know the strangest thing is for once, everything's been just working for me. So i've never had one of the files recently have any problem. So we pared notes. I don't know.

he gave S S, A bug. Field Browns wing comes in with a road ducks that's two thousand, two hundred and two, two sets. I don't use next, but I have been thinking in the old time, the perfect media server could just be a next config, just plexo jelly fin and, you know, the r stack, and to have IT all preece IT up, maybe one day, even even trying next.

I've been very happy with unrated. And I have the pro lifetime license. Managing the ray is what I don't understand how to do so kind of scared to switch said .

as a separation in concerns in my mind, at least between the base O S and the application later. I think there's a handful of apps that the nicks way and like the next modules might make sense for, like what we're hearing just in this comment section, just in this feedback section alone that many people have had good success with the next cloud module, for example.

But I think there's still a huge argument be made for kind of the industry standardization around doctor composed as a deployment artifact when if you go to spin up any project, almost any project, at least they almost all have some kind of a docker run time these days. And the same cannot I mean, image was only added a couple of weeks ago to the next packages repo, so long as you are still in the the world that we're in right now. And I appreciate nothing's gna change unless people move things forward.

So if i'm not here saying like we used doctor because everybody else uses docker, because everyone else uses docker, like that just maintains the state is co. I'm aware of the irony, but you know, from my perspective IT just if i'm doing the same thing as everybody else, IT makes trouble shooting easier. IT makes to develop his lives easier because they're got a stable deployment target. Yeah, yes. yeah. I think that.

well, I I think with this one, I get reminded that, alex, on the perfect media server website that you have crafted, you already have a naxos configuration for the perfect media server.

I admitted .

IT to the world last week. You even have a section here says, take the blue pill.

I admitted to the world last week that my media has been running nix for the last six months perfectly happily. And yeah, never been more stable.

It's what to point out. I'm not the one this brought IT up. Once the step me.

I will say the base O S is nick O S with the F S working floorless ly and merger fs for the media drives. And then the attack continues to be dog compose, fed through my ancel playbook that just deploys IT onto the host.

And then I run, dock.

compose up that way of a switch off. Nicks is all about for me, maintaining that portability if if whatever reason nick employs which, with the community drama that constantly seems to be going on with that project, who knows what the future looks like. But I hope, I hope it's bright, I hope it's rosy, whether it's good wick or nex or however likes is just another one. Is that yeah so I don't know portal ability and not show now summarized this one because tb sent us .

a long when he's a long time listener and he went to sentience this thanks he says he's reaching out to mention a heat I don't know that a typo he is not sure has been covered before I recently discovered is extremely useful to quick command or remind myself of command usage and formatting is really made a huge difference for me. okay.

And also also mentioned these beginning in directorate games, and he's been creating docker containers to pack up different flash games. And he had great success. He says, check out tab rights code on get up there, go so it's T B rights code on github um to figure IT out that this get up. Thank you.

We lost the whole era of gaming. Didn't way of retta gaming when flash games went to put.

It's amazing to see people .

working on this. You know, recently, listener jeff brought this to my attention because he's a big flash fan. And I got ta say, before this episode, I was reading this boost in particular, who mentions ruffle, which kind of gets things up and going.

And Chris m, i'm bringing this up because I think you're not you're going to like this one. Uh, IT is an open source piece software written in rest to run these old flash games and these old flash programs. And they have if if you go to the river website, they have a little demos section.

And I I earlier today wasted little too much time playing alien humanity, which is one of the examples there. So I got to say, if you do anything with this empty, at least go playing that game. Really, really good.

Check this out. This is too good. That is really need.

That's nice to see. I love the just opposition of having, like, an extremely modern programing language like rest. Running the super old ancient like flash based game is really nice.

That's pretty great. Swat rounds is out with a row of ducks. And thank you to help. Appreciate that. And says, what's your recommendation for a low power home, nez harbor wise? I've been thinking about an old roy, age four, with an extinct extinguish external heart out.

Maybe it's kind of a dongo with an external hard driving closure with five or eight, three and half base connectivity, a single USB cable, software wise IT would be great to run. Z, F, S, don't know which destroy you'd recommend. And maybe some vms on top of that.

Think about maybe prox smoke on the very metal. And then A Z F S R V M, I think you get a gest. What would you suggest?

wow. yeah. A lot of unpacking this question, I think for for a low power a low power system, I hate to say IT, but some kind of an intel box, their I efficiency is particularly good because of their p and equal architecture.

So if you wanted to go super duper low power with not much headroom, something like an in one hundred ish based platform would be pretty, pretty decent. But that box, that branch just built, for example, is also pretty low power. As I recall.

It's something like fifteen, twenty watts without the hard drives, the idle and then it's got the header ing to go over over sixty, sixty, seventy watts and it's got quick thing built in so almost never uses, only need that amount of power. Yeah so yeah video, transcoding is is a bit of obese. So if you're doing that, get something with harder transcoding.

The O S, I don't think IT matters too much, nick. O S is fine. Unready is fine.

True has just had a nice big release that just had a dog compose. That's probably also fine. Like just try them. I mean, there's there's a lot of different options these days in liter. It's like telling me what kind of it's like turning what kind of to paint your bedroom like different folks are different strokes.

Those one lear pcs are definitely worth looking at. I have I have a lot of extensive experience with the old droid age three days. I want a couple of them and you're right, you could do that. I'm running two days over USB. I don't generally recommend that, but then working for three years, but each four, I would imagine even Better.

And proxy X I think is something you should serious ly consider because you could you could easily expand that later on to a different box to say you did go something like the old right and then you hit the performance limitations of that be pretty easy to migrate to something more powerful. Or if you start with a one later PC, I want to go something bigger at sea prox mox. Would mean though you're going with the X, X six platform, just something to consider.

Lot of the low power options are going to be in the arms side of things as well. But I would kind of love to know if we can answer this and if you're getting in these specific questions or which direction you go. So let us know what.

Thank you very much, and appreciate the boost at a couple of college I wanted to do to we don't get all the boost, but Scott came in with five thousand sets and he's looking for recommendations for a read later flash omeo four replacement omnivores been purchased and he's hoping for recommendation from the audience for a replacement for that PC no. Ref, a cow radio listers wants to send some seats to self hosted for little about love. And we got fifteen thousand sets from the muso, who said I was that I was going to go learn docker compose, but I decided to go full next.

Paddock came with three thousand sets, and I really appreciate this one. The r and r sets, TV, is pronounced like air because it's german, so it's air sets. T, V, uh, and assets is the german word for replacement.

So it's your TV replacement, right? good. I was so grateful there is other people that boosted him. But for time, we do have to, we do have to cut short.

Your boost will be in the boost barn, which is linked and will ever, forever be in our show notes. Everybody, hoop does boost in. We had thirty one of your stream cats as you listen.

So collected saat streamers helped stack forty seven thousand and twelve sats. Thank you very much. And when you combine that with our boosters, we had a very generous three hundred and forty six thousand and three hundred and fifty four sets sent into the show this week.

IT is a value for value production. So if you get some value from IT, we really appreciate if you send in either a boost or you can set your support on autopilot and become a member to boost. And you just need a podcast APP like fountain or customer tic or pod vers or pocket.

There are so many good ones. They listed at a podcast, upstart com fountains, the easiest, but IT goes up from there to fully self hosted solutions. enjoy. And thank you for supporting the show.

absolutely. We all support makes all the difference. So it's it's not lost on us to trust me when whenever we get we see the the subscribe accounts going up and down all the time.

So big thank you to everybody who signs up. We're doing a postshow every time for our slight reliability engineers. Just took give a little, a little extra content as our way of thank thank you and in that free feed as well .

little bit of A P sa before we wrap up, if you use vote warden, there has been a pretty serious release and you need to upgrade to version one that three two dot four and as fixed. Um I guess they quite say quote some C V reported so I don't know the details about the C V E but IT sounds like they recommend the volt ard and team recommend that you get the latest version as soon as possible um and then the contents of the cv are going to be disclosed shortly publicly soon. So you probably want to be patched before they make the public disclosure because then people can start .

banging on interesting. I wonder the bit warden service had a little bit of downtime a weekend on the weekend a couple of weeks ago. I wonder me.

by the way, that got me, that downtime got me. Yeah, you might be right. Maybe they patching the back end.

roque, the only time in many, many years that, yes, ever bit me. Now one last thing we mentioned IT briefly in the episode last week that tea tech, the guy behind the prox mox help scripts, was in a hospice. Unfortunately, since the last episode it's come to light, he has passed away sadly.

So sending thoughts and prayers in the licking stuff to his, to his family. It's nice to see that the proxy x help us scripts have moved now into a community owned repost that they will live on beyond the man himself. So, post humour, sly, thank you for everything you did. T, T, yeah.

is really nice. These people make IT impact on our communities. It's nice to recognize them. tally. Is there anywhere you want to send people to get little bit more of you? Yeah.

you got any places you can catch me every single week to linux and luck.

Hey, have a great idea here ago. Let some plug back com for that. Thank you for joining this brand.

Always a pleasure. Yeah thanks for putting the fire on for me.

I know it's a baby as its brand brand news. So you're onna have to come back at some point after you've had IT and use used in anger for a while sets some things that may be got your backup PS going and and give us some update at some point out. It's all working out.

Yeah i'm sure to ask you had to migrate from .

butter festas at a fest at some point .

you can find me a alex dot kats at dot me. I've got a little posted link tree over there and thanks for listings everybody that was so posted dot show slash one three, six.