Your Money Map Replay: Why Money Alone Won’t Make You Rich with Sahil Bloom
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And the four common threads that kept coming up over and over and over again across all those conversations were four things that people really wanted. Time, people, purpose, and health. Those were really the four common themes that came up over and over and over again. Money was an enabler to those in a lot of ways, but it was not an end in and of itself. No one talked about sitting on a private jet or a yacht by themselves.

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Hey everybody, I'm Jean Chatzky. Welcome to Her Money. I've got a question for you. What does it mean to live a wealthy life?

Well, what if I were to tell you it is not just about having a lot of money? According to my guest today, Sahil Bloom, there are actually five types of wealth and by investing in each, you can build the life you've always wanted. Sahil is an inspirational writer and content creator and in his new book, The Five Types of Wealth, he lays out a roadmap for designing our dream lives.

Sahil recently joined me on Your Money Map, a show I host for the Alliance for Lifetime Income, to share his story and explain why the traditional definition of wealth no longer works. So keep listening and be sure to check out the rest of the amazing work being done by our friends at the Alliance for Lifetime Income at ProtectedIncome.org. Here's my conversation with Sahil.

Sahil, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for being with me today. Thank you so much for having me. It means the world. A great deal of research, but also a lot of personal lived experience. You identified

these five types of wealth that can help people attain a better life. We're a money show, so this makes a lot of sense for us to talk about, and they are the focus of this new book. Before we get to exactly what they are,

How did you get to them? How did you get to the fact that it's not all about the money? Well, I'll tell you, in May of 2021, I had a single conversation that changed the course of my life.

I was out for a drink with an old friend and we sat down and he asked how I was doing. And I told him that it had started to get difficult living as far away from my parents as I was at the time. We were living in California, building our whole life there, my wife and I. And my parents and her parents were all on the East Coast, 3,000 miles away. And I had noticed for the first time in my life that my parents had started to slow down a bit, that they were getting older.

And my friend asked me how old they were. And I said, mid-60s. And he said, how often do you see them? And I admitted that it was just about once a year at that point. And he just looked at me and said, OK, so you're going to see your parents 15 more times before they die. And I just remember feeling like I had been punched in the gut.

I mean, the idea that the amount of time you have left with the people that you care about most in the world is that finite, that countable, that you can literally put it onto a few hands. It just shook me to the core. And in that moment, I realized that something had to change, that if we didn't change something about the way that we were living, we were going to wake up in 50 years and wonder what we had just done, wonder where we were.

And the next day, my wife and I had a very candid conversation about what we wanted to serve as our center, our true north, if you will, in our own journey. And within 45 days, we had made a dramatic change. I had stepped off the path I was on. I left my job that I'd been at for seven years, a good, quote unquote, successful, good sounding job. We sold our house in California and we moved 3000 miles across the country to live closer to both of our families. And

And really that one conversation and that one decision was the start of this entire journey that's led to this book, to think differently about what we view as a successful life. And the recognition here that's so important that I want people to really embrace and understand is you will never feel successful unless you create your own definition of success.

It's so often that we just embrace and walk into this default definition that other people hand us, whether it's success or status or whatever those things are. And you have the power to actually create your own around these things. And until you start measuring the right things, measuring the things that you truly care about that actually contribute to this more comprehensively fulfilling and wealthy life, you will never feel that you have enough on your journey.

It's so striking in its...

It's simplicity, but the fact that we just don't look at it. There's a lot that I resonate with in your story. We moved to be closer to my mom during the middle of COVID in Philadelphia. She was in her 80s. It just felt like we needed to be closer. And she actually passed away a few years later. And I am grateful for every single day. I'm

Crushed that she is not here, but I am grateful that we had what we had I also

Hearing you describe this path that we feel we have to follow, I see my own children in their 30s struggle with this. What happens if I take a gap year? What happens if I don't take the next step that everybody says you're supposed to take? And it's daunting. But as you started your exploration journey,

How did you get to five? How did you get to the fact that there are five types of wealth and what are they? So what I started doing after making that change in our life was investing

really just immersing myself in the human experience. I sort of realized that there are certain things about our journeys and about our lives that you can't learn from reading books. So I tried that, right? I went and read all of the ancient texts. I read self-help classics. I read everything that you could imagine getting your hands on. But I realized that to understand something so deeply human about what it means to live a fulfilling life, you actually have to immerse yourself in the human experience. And that meant sitting with

thousands of people over the course of the last three years and trying to ask them a series of really basic fundamental questions. For young people, what do you actually envision is your ideal future? When you're age 80, what does your ideal day look like when you wake up as an 80-year-old? And as an older person going and talking to 80, 90, 100-year-olds as I did, what advice would they give to their younger self, the things that they know now that they wish they had known when they were earlier on their journey?

And the four common threads that kept coming up over and over and over again across all those conversations were four things that people really wanted. Time, people, purpose, and health. Those were really the four common themes that came up over and over and over again. Money was an enabler to those in a lot of ways, but it was not an end in and of itself. No one talked about sitting on a private jet or a yacht by themselves.

Everyone, when they talked about envisioning their future, talks about these things. They want to feel free. They want to have some level of freedom. They want to have people around them that they love, their children, grandchildren, friends, spouses, all of those. They want to feel some sense of purpose, like they know what they're doing on a daily basis, something on a higher order than just their days. And they want to feel healthy of mind and body. They want to feel like they have a level of vitality, something within their control around that.

And so that was really what started to formulate in my mind this idea of these five types of wealth. And the important piece as I formulated it was wealth.

This is universal. It's not about a different entire framework when you're 20, then when you're 40, then when you're 60, then when you're 80. The way that you view the framework will be different. The lens through which you view these things will be different, but the questions you're going to be asking yourself are universal. And that is a really important concept that comes out in the book is just this idea that

Your life has seasons and what you focus on or prioritize during any one season will change. But you are going to want to be working on or investing in all five of these areas across all of the different seasons of your life to build towards that future that you're looking for. And yet you say that the prescription is individual, right? For each person in each season of their life.

So what questions do we need to ask ourselves in order to structure the pie in a way that it makes sense for us in the current situation?

I think that the first question to ask yourself is, what is your actual true north? What is the future that you are actually trying to march towards? And then ask yourself and have a level of self-awareness around whether or not your actions in the present are actually bearing out that future, whether they are actually marching you towards that future.

When you were talking earlier about your children or young people feeling this speed obsession, we're surrounded by this culture that is obsessed with speed. You need to do everything faster. Everything is urgent. You have to take on X, Y, or Z. You have to say yes to every single thing that comes your way. And the real truth is that life is much more about direction than speed. It's much better to climb slowly up the right mountain than it is to climb fast up the wrong one.

And we get that wrong a lot of the way. And the reason we get that wrong is because we haven't more clearly identified what that right mountain is. We haven't actually sat with the question of what is that true north that I'm trying to walk towards during this season of my life. And as I said, and as you pointed out,

That is going to shift. In your 20s and 30s, the financial wealth building season of your life, like that is a real important factor because during those years, you are setting up the foundation that you can compound off of for the future.

But these areas cannot exist on on off switches in your life. Traditional wisdom has been like this four burners theory that people have talked about, where if you have one burner on, the other ones are all off. And it's like if your work burner, financial burner is on, all of the other areas of your life have to be turned off.

The reality is that all of these things in life exist on a dimmer switch. And just because you are prioritizing or focusing on financial wealth in your early years, or you're prioritizing and focusing on family during your middle years, it doesn't mean that you turn off the other areas. You can just have them turn down and invest in some

basic maintenance activities that continue to move the ball forward in your life. Because all of these things have the same natural compounding that financial investments do. We know that investing $100 today in the S&P 500 is better than investing zero because it's going to compound over a long period of time into the future. The exact same principle applies to your relationships.

Investing a tiny bit of time today, sending the one text to the friend when you're thinking about them, calling your parents for the five minutes that you have in the car ride is better than doing nothing. It's going to compound positively in your life. So having that mindset shift to recognize that all of these areas have the same natural compounding effect as your finances do is a really important mindset shift for people to internalize.

So you talked about people, right? And we talked about financial a bit. And I want to come back to the three pillars of finance and really get a grip on that. But let's talk about the other types of wealth. And how do you know that?

when they are your true north during the seasons of your life. Are there commonalities of people at different ages when passion starts to wave its flag and say, pay attention to me, or time is the thing that you really have to master?

Absolutely. So time wealth, just to understand it a little bit more, time wealth is all about the freedom to choose how you spend your time, who you spend it with, where you spend it, when you trade it for other things. And it's fundamentally about recognizing time as your most precious asset. It

It's that question that my friend asked me at the very beginning that shocked me with the reality of time wealth, with the fact that these moments that we have are actually our true wealth in life, our true asset that we have. And we're in much more control of that asset than we think.

there is a tendency to view time as a passive observer to say, well, time just goes from point A to point B and I can't do anything about it. I just, I have to like grab at it along the way, but it's just passing no matter what. And the reality is that that's not really the case. If you think about my situation,

15 more times before my parents were gone. Well, we heard that, we took an action, and now I see my parents multiple times a month. I probably took that number from 15 into the hundreds. We see our parents all the time. They're a huge part of my son, their grandson's life. We took an action that actually fundamentally created time with the people that we care about most. You did the same when it came to spending time with your mother. You took an action that led to more moments with the person that you cared about. You created time.

The ancient Greeks actually talked about this. There were two words for time. There was chronos, which was the idea of quantitative, just linear time. And then there's kairos, which was the idea that not all time is created equal, that certain moments are actually more important than others. Certain windows of time are more important.

So internalizing that lesson to understand that energy deployed into these moments of time that are more powerful actually has these amplified, incredible effects. You can actually go and create and change the nature of time. I mean, I think this is amazing because we all have that feeling, right?

that time slips through our fingers, right? That time truly is not something that we are in control of, or even that other people are more in control of our time than we are. But essentially what you're saying is that by focusing on it, you can take it back. Yeah.

You can trade other things for time. And that's just a really important light lesson and financial lesson, I think, to keep in mind. Yeah. And there are things we all need to do. It depends on the stage of your life. You know, I understand from your listener base that this is likely people that are further along in their careers, maybe starting to approach thinking about retirement. And generally speaking, that means that you have a little bit more autonomy or control when it comes to your professional work.

that you can say no to things maybe more actively than you could when you were in your 20s or 30s or earlier on in your career. You can decide which opportunities you're going to take on in your personal life as well. And one thing that I found over and over again is that Americans in particular, very bad at saying no. We live in this like busy, obsessed culture where busy becomes like our status symbol. Saying I'm busy is taken as a good thing. You want to tell people you're busy.

And the unfortunate thing is when we take on too much stuff, we aren't able to actually focus our energy on the things that really matter. So we all have felt that at different times. You take on a million different things and then you just feel like you don't have any time or energy for yourself or for your family or for the things that you truly care about or for the opportunities at work that are really going to move you forward professionally.

And so the ways that I think you can get at that in your own life, I'll just give you two simple kind of tests or ways to start saying no a little bit more effectively. In your personal life, when someone asks you to do something a few weeks from now or a month from now, ask yourself if you would do it tonight. I call it the right now test. Like, would I do this tonight if it were tonight? And if the answer is no, just say no to it.

There is a cognitive bias called the yes, damn effect that says that humans have a bad tendency to think we are going to have more time for things in the future. So we say yes to things that are a month from now. And then that thing comes and we say, damn, I should have said yes to that thing.

It is an actual studied cognitive bias now. And the way that you solve that is by pulling that thing from the future into the present to ask yourself, would I want to do it right now? If the answer is no, just say no to it. The one for professional opportunities that I think is really interesting is that

We need to fight back against the tendency of like the shiny object syndrome that we all get when it comes to new professional opportunities where the new thing comes and we start getting excited saying like, this could be enormous. This could go so well. Look, this could be a huge opportunity. So we say yes to all of those things. And then inevitably, most of them don't end up working out.

The test that I talk about with that is to say, assume that this is going to take twice as long as I currently think and be half as profitable. Would I still want to do it? Oh, wow.

Because what that does is it pulls you back from that like irrational optimism that we feel at the start of a new thing. And it forces you to ask yourself, am I truly energized and interested in this thing? Just on the basis of what the actual work is going to entail. And if the answer is yes to that, it ends up being something that you're going to be excited to lean into whether or not it ends up working out. T.

Two tools that are going to be deployed in my arsenals immediately. I'm very bad at saying no, as I think many, many, many women, in addition to people, are.

Talk about purpose, and then we're going to turn the conversation and really talk about the financial. When you are thinking of the times in your life where you want to lean into purpose, how do you make that happen? I think you want to lean into purpose throughout your life. But the important piece is that I actually really believe that you've been lied to when it comes to purpose. You have been led to believe that your purpose has to be your work.

That is just not the case. That is a lie that we've all been told. What you do want to be able to do is connect to your purpose while you are at work. I'll give you that distinction and explain that. During the course of this book research, I spent time with a man who works on an assembly line at a factory. He basically puts together widgets for eight, 10 hours a day. Hates his job. Doesn't get energy from that, right? It's really challenging. It's monotonous. There's not a whole lot that he likes about it.

But his purpose, as he states it, is to be the father that he never had to his sons. He wants to provide and be an incredible father figure to his young boys. And so every single day when he goes to work, he connects to that purpose because he views the work that he is doing as serving that higher order purpose of being that father figure, of being the provider for the family.

And so he gets great energy every single day when he goes to work because he knows in the back of his mind, I'm connecting to that higher order purpose that I have in my life. And I felt that that was such an interesting example of that exact trait of your purpose doesn't have to be your work. It doesn't have to be grand or ambitious. It just has to be yours. You have to have something that is really your version of kind of the hero's journey, if

if you will, like your thing that you are connecting to on a daily basis. And that applies when you're 20 and you're in your foundation building season. It applies when you're 70 and you're trying to refine new joy in life after your children have grown up and have moved on. All of these things are about finding some way to connect your longer term decisions with the shorter term daily actions to wake up in the morning and to feel like I understand why I'm doing the things I'm doing and know what I want to do on a daily basis.

I can say to my new Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra, hey, find a keto-friendly restaurant nearby and text it to Beth and Steve. And it does without me lifting a finger. So I can get in more squats anywhere I can. One, two, three. Will that be cash or credit? Credit. Galaxy S25 Ultra, the AI companion that does the heavy lifting so you can do you. Get yours at Samsung.com. Compatible with select apps. Reparts Google Gemini account. Results may vary based on input. Check responses for accuracy.

I love the description of money, the financial pillar as a threat through the others, because I think that's exactly right. I've always felt that money is not the end goal. It's the tool that you use to make all of your other goals happen. Right.

Right. Money can buy you time. Money can bring you closer to the people that you want to be with. The link between money and health is unavoidable these days. Right. Without money, it's really hard to maintain your health. Without good health, you're going to run through your money trying to improve it. So I see that link. You say that there are three pillars.

to building a strong financial life? What are they and how are they different for that person who is at the start of their career arc versus the person who's a bit further down the road? So the three pillars of financial wealth building are really just established on the basis of a

simplicity. The fact that basically every single journey to financial wealth involves engaging these three pillars. And the three are income generation, which is think of cash inflows if you want to view it on a cash basis, expense management, actual cash outflows for all of the things that exist, and then long-term investment. Those are compounders, the things that you are going to actually be investing in that are going to compound wealth.

The reason those three are such a beautiful, just easy way to think about this is because at a deconstructed level, the journey to financial independence just involves a very simple engagement of those three pillars. You want to grow your income alongside your skills. So you're building skills, you're leveraging those skills that grows your income or it grows your cash inflows, whether through primary employment, secondary employment, side hustles, or like windfall, sale, exit events, things of that sort that grows your income.

Managing expenses, the second line item there, is how you create a gap of cash inflows and cash outflows. There's a gap there that exists that hopefully you can scale over time because your income grows faster than your expenses do. That gap

is your single greatest asset for building financial independence because you can invest those into long-term compounding assets, the third category here, the third pillar. And as you do that, they will stack and continue to compound on top of each other over a long period of time, the eighth wonder of the world, as Einstein called it.

And that, as just a simple deconstructed view on how to build financial wealth, is, for me at least, the most easy to understand version of this that I can possibly articulate. And I think...

I think we live in this world now where social media and most of the content that you see out there is focused on the most complex, sexy sounding solution for building financial wealth in your life. Everyone tries to sell you the fancy asset class, the fancy solution, the multi-tier pronged arbitrage, whatever all the big buzzwords are, the word salad that gets thrown at you. And

That really obfuscates this underlying simplicity that is at the core of actually building the life of financial independence that you're looking for. It isn't just social media. It's actually the financial services industry in many cases that is growing.

throwing around complicated terms, throwing around lingo and buzzwords. Why do you think that the financial services industry, the industry that actually wants you to be a client, insists upon talking to people in language that many people just can't understand? Yeah.

Well, there's the cynical side of me, which would say that a bad advisor, a bad financial advisor wants you to get hooked on them. If you view them as being significantly smarter than you on the topic, then you're likely to stick with them.

You will think that like, oh, they know all these things that I don't know. So I'll keep you around as an advisor. I think there are good advisors out there who recognize that their real role is not to generate outsized returns for the people that are investing money with them, but to allow them to create this holistic full picture of these different types of wealth and how to build the life that they actually want. And I think the best financial advisors out there do a great job of that.

of helping you actually understand the bigger picture of your life and how money is going to be a tool, but not the goal. But there are a whole lot of bad advisors out there who will use the jargony acronym filled word salad to try to impress you and to try to make you feel intimidated. And so my advice to anyone out there,

is if you have a conversation with a financial advisor, someone that's pitching you to be a client, and they use a whole bunch of big buzzwords, and you find yourself feeling really intimidated or concerned, and you ask questions, and they're not able to answer them to you in a very simple, basic way that could almost be understood by a five-year-old,

You should run the other direction because the person is trying to hide something behind all of that complexity and jargon that just doesn't need to be hidden. On the same notion, you talked about compounding as the eighth wonder of the world. It is really a miracle if you can get yourself on the same.

regular investing bandwagon. One of the things we know is that there are a number of people who feel like they've gotten on that bandwagon a little bit late. We're at the peak of what the Alliance calls peak 64.

And basically what that means is that this year, 2025 is the peak. We've got 11,400 people turning 65 in America every single day, more than 4.2 million this year. It's the highest on record. What would you say to people who feel at that age as if

They're behind as if they don't have sufficient assets. They didn't get a start early enough. How can they make adjustments knowing that, in fact, we do live a longer time in this era to improve their lives in the years to come?

I think there are a couple of different messages here. One is a functional message, which is to say that if you functionally feel like you are behind and you need to make adjustments to the way that you are thinking about spending so that you can increase your investable gap on a monthly basis to start to, quote unquote, catch up to what you feel you need for the remaining years, then you should do that. You should start to build an actual plan, work with someone to actually craft the specifics of that plan and stick to it.

That can kind of become a bit of a game. It's actually a little fun when you kind of gamify, like trying to hit these different levels. My wife and I have always done that, and it has been a fun thing for us. The other piece is a more psychological or emotional one, which is just the idea that there are a lot of people out there in our culture who feel like they have not done well based on the default scoreboard of just thinking about your wealthy life as being about money.

And on this new scoreboard, this idea that there are different types of wealth, they are doing so much better than they have ever been led to believe. A perfect example of this, one of my college teammates from I played baseball at Stanford and one of my college teammates after we graduated decided that he wanted to move back to his hometown and become a gym teacher and coach his high school sports teams.

Now, he probably makes $40,000 or $50,000 a year. On the surface, people would say that he's not doing so great. He got a Stanford degree, and now he's working as a gym teacher and a high school sports coach.

But if you look under the surface, he is loving what he does. He loves working with young people. It lights him up every single day. He has tons of free time because he works from about nine to about four on a daily basis. He has two beautiful children. Both sets of families live right next door to each other. They get to spend tons of time together, and he's extremely fit. He gets to spend all this time outside doing his workouts and things that he loves.

On the surface, on the default scoreboard, he's not doing so great. But on a new scoreboard, he is abundantly wealthy. Wealthier, in fact, than a lot of my friends who make a whole bunch of money working in finance and are miserable.

And so what I would encourage people to really think about is every single time you start to go down this rabbit hole of feeling like you're behind or feeling like you're not doing as well as you should or as you thought you would be doing, ask yourself these other questions about your life, how you're doing in these other areas. Because my suspicion is that there are a lot of people out there who, by the old definition, are not doing so great, but by the new one and a more comprehensive one, are actually much wealthier than they've come to realize.

You brought up exercise. And I think it's a very important part of the equation. I always come back to this study that Fidelity Investments did that looked at the biggest stress reducer across a whole bunch of stressful situations. And lo and behold, it was get up and move. Go do something with your body and your brain. It's going to actually feel better. The other lever that we've been talking about

a lot about in recent months is loneliness, this social epidemic of loneliness that we are experiencing in this country. In the time that we have left, and I will have one last question for you, but can you just talk a little bit about those two components and why they're so meaningful?

Yeah. I mean, with physical wealth, with fitness, I would argue that it is hard to appreciate or enjoy the other types of wealth without your health.

And so physical wealth is fundamentally about controlling the controllables. It's about doing the things that you can do in order to fight the natural decay that happens with aging. We all know we are facing a constant march of decay over the course of our lives. And what we're trying to do is take the actions necessary on a daily basis across three pillars, across movement, nutrition, and recovery, to try to fight against that aging, to slow it down for as long as we can.

And again, this is an area where you are bombarded by the complex, crazy information about what it means to live a healthy life when the reality is it's very simple. Move your body for 30 minutes a day. Try to eat whole, unprocessed foods at about 80% of your meals and sleep for seven hours a night.

If you can do those three things, that's kind of quote unquote level one of the physical wealth video game. If you can do that, you'll be getting 80, 90% of the benefit for free. That doesn't require some crazy regimen or any fancy stuff. You can level up from there, but do those three things consistently and you have a good start.

That will be a catalyst into all of these other areas of life. You will feel better, which means that you'll operate better in your relationships. You'll operate better at work. You'll start to see yourself differently. All of these things start to change on the back of that.

On the second piece of your question when it comes to relationships, there is clear scientific evidence that the strength of your relationships impacts your happiness and health more than any other factor in your entire life. The Harvard study of adult development was this amazing study done over the course of 85 plus years. They followed 2000 plus participants in it. They found that the single greatest predictor of physical health at age 80 was relationship satisfaction at age 50.

Not blood pressure, cholesterol, not smoking or drinking habits. How you felt about your relationships impacted your healthy aging.

And so what better reason to invest in relationships on a daily basis, to do those things, to get the group of friends together, to schedule that coffee date with the old friend, to call your mom or your parent, to send the text to the friend when you're thinking about them. Make those tiny investments and they'll pay dividends over the long run. We usually ask our guests to leave us with three pieces of advice, three pieces of actionable advice to wrap up the conversation that are valuable.

pre-retiree audience can take and run with? What would they be? And maybe you can give me both of those truths. You will never feel successful until you create your own definition of success. That is one of those truths that I talk about in the book, that at the

At the end of the day, accepting other people's definition of what a successful life looks like is not the path to you living yours. So create your own, really identify the things that truly matter to you, and then go and take action to build your life around those things. The second one is that your wealthy life may be enabled by money, but in the end, it will be defined by everything else.

So I'll leave you with those two. I hope that people sit with these questions. I hope that you really wrestle with these bigger picture questions around your life about the things that you truly care about and

reject these defaults that we've been handed and start living by design. Sahil Bloom, the book is The Fine Tights of Wealth. Where can we find more about you? You can find me at Sahil Bloom on every major platform. And the book is available everywhere books are sold on Amazon. Obviously, if you have a favorite local bookstore, you'll be able to pick it up there. And I'm just so grateful for the support and for the opportunity to have a chance to chat with all of you today.

Such a pleasure. And if you're looking for more information from the Alliance, you can find it at protectedincome.org. If you love this episode, please give us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts. We always value your feedback. And if you want to keep the financial conversations going, join me for a deeper dive.

Her Money has two incredible programs, Finance Fix, which is designed to give you the ultimate money makeover, and Investing Fix, which is our investing club for women that meets biweekly on Zoom. With both programs, we are leveling the playing fields for women's financial confidence and power. I would love to see you there.

Her Money is produced by Haley Pascalides. Our music is provided by Video Helper and our show comes to you through Megaphone. Thanks for joining us and we'll talk soon.