A Very British AI Revolution!
40:51 Share

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop. With Mint, you can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments, but that's weird. Okay, one judgment. Anyway, give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of $45 for three-month plan, equivalent to $15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See full terms at mintmobile.com.

This episode of the Times Tech podcast is sponsored by Vanta. Let's talk about something that might be keeping you up at night, cybersecurity. According to Vanta's latest State of Trust report, it's the number one concern for UK businesses, and that's where Vanta comes in. Whether you're a startup, growing fast, or already established, Vanta can help you get ISO 27001 certified and more without the headaches.

And Vanta allows your company to centralize security workflows, complete questionnaires up to five times faster and proactively manage vendor risk to help your team not only get compliant, but stay compliant. So stop stressing over cybersecurity and start focusing on growing your business in 2025. Check out Vanta and let them handle the tough stuff. Head to vanta.com forward slash the times tech to learn more.

Because when it comes to your business, it's not just about keeping the lights on. It's about keeping everything secure. Why are you wearing a helmet? I'm bringing some masculine energy to this podcast.

Because, yeah, I don't know if you know this, I'm in Silicon Valley and what we've been missing is masculine energy. For sure. I've got my sword. I'm smoking some meats downstairs. I might go on an elk hunt or I might get a cappuccino. You know, it's up in the air right now. But, yeah, I'm just trying to reclaim my masculine energy in 2025 in the tech industry. What are these swords and helmets made from? Well, that's classified information.

I'm so glad you brought the masculine energy. I've been very worried for the white man of Silicon Valley. I think about it a lot. It keeps me up at night. Oh, gosh. It's a bizarre time out here. It's a bizarre time. I think you should put the helmet back on. You think? Well, it's actually, I'll be honest, it's not very comfortable. Ergonomically, there's no padding inside. And it's like if I was in a sword fight as a knight.

I don't think it would do me much good. You're a bit exposed. Yeah. I'm not sure your sword would help very much either. Yeah. Come back to normal. Come back to feminine energy. It suits you more.

Hello and welcome back to the Times Tech Podcast. I'm Danny Fortson, Danny in the Valley, Silicon Valley. And I'm Katie Prescott in the City of London, where, Danny, a revolution is afoot. An AI revolution. Man the virtual barricades. Absolutely. I've got not one, but two revolutionary manifestos to bring you this week. Oh gosh, wow.

Because today, The Times and The Sunday Times is unveiling a new list of the 100 fastest growing tech companies in Britain, which you can find online at thetimes.com. These businesses brought in 3.2 billion of revenues to the economy in 2024. And surprise, surprise, the government wants more of that. More boom. Well, more of that later. I do love a list. And it's a good list.

But let's go to another one first. Another manifesto launched a much fanfare by the technology revolutionaries here in London. And I think you will find that the name is as original as the Times Tech podcast. Oh, let's hear it. It is called, well, the Governmental AI Opportunities Action Plan. Oh my God, my heart is aflutter. The Governmental AI Opportunities Action Plan? Yeah.

Like viva la revolucion. Who's leading this? Che Starmer? Yes, Danny. The Prime Minister, Sakhir Starmer, thank you very much, has called for the nation to unleash AI across the UK. And of course, that will boost growth, productivity, everything. AI is the silver bullet. So, Katie, when we talk about unleash...

What does that mean? Well, that's a very, very good question. And it's one I had too. So I asked the Secretary of State for technology once we managed to get his headphones working. So it's something about men and tech on this podcast. I have no idea what you're talking about. Moving swiftly on. But there is only one answer, of course. The dog's eating your homework. The cat's got your tongue.

You're finding the hospital waiting list too long. AI is the answer to everything right now. Oh, blimey, governor. This is going to be a right British episode, yeah? This is good. I want you to keep it going. Can you keep it going for half an hour? I don't really want to do that. Anyway, it turns out America is not the only country in the world where there is AI. Yeah, it's over here too. It's going to be mainlined into our veins. Weird.

I quote. But anyway, let's hear Sakhir Starmer and what the Prime Minister had to say about it all. AI isn't something locked away behind the walls of blue chip companies. It's a force for change that will transform the lives of working people for the better. So if you're sitting around the kitchen table tonight, worried about the opportunities at your children's school, AI can help teachers plan lessons tailored to your children's specific needs.

If you're worried about waiting times, aren't we all? AI can save hundreds of thousands of hours lost to missed appointments because it can identify those on the list most likely not to turn up and help get them the support that they need, maybe change for a more convenient appointment. It can spot potholes quicker, speed up planning applications, reduce job center form filling.

helping the fight against tax avoidance, and almost half the time that social workers spend on paperwork. Incredible. There you go, he's come in fighting. This makes me, this kind of makes my stomach turn a little bit, I'm going to be honest.

Go on. It just feels like it's a little Silicon Valley-ish where it's like this magic machine, presto change-o, hand-wavy, hand-wavy, is going to fix everything. I think all of them are problems. And you can see how AI could help with all of them. Yeah. But my problem is it's all quite vague, isn't it? Now, clearly it can have major game...

Yes.

But it's how then you go out actually rolling it out. And it raises many, many questions. I like the vision. I buy into the vision. But it's not something, it isn't a magic bullet that's going to be implemented immediately. There are so many things that need to be put in place. And it feels like the technology is not even quite there yet. It's, I just watched Wicked. Reminds me a little bit of like the Wizard of Oz, where you're just like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, yeah, magic. Yeah.

And you're like, well, there's a lot of things that don't require AI that just that you can still make work much better. And it feels a little bit of a cop out to be like, don't worry, guys.

AI is here to solve all our problems. Well, I spoke to the Secretary of State for Technology about this, Peter Kyle. As you do, as you do. I love that. Yeah. He's only been in the job a few months, picking up the tech brief. And so we talked about what the AI plan meant, but also touched on some other things like Elon Musk, obviously, because he's suddenly become very interested in British politics. Yeah.

But he started along the lines of the prime minister there talking about all of the opportunities that AI presents and setting out that grand vision. But what I wanted to know is when people might actually see something practical. Well, we already are seeing these changes. If you go for a scan, if you get called in for a scan at Huddersfield Hospital, the radiography department has AI completely integrated into it. What does that mean for the patient?

several things. Firstly, it means that scans are done, analysed and returned, the results are returned far, far quicker than before. And when I say quicker, it usually takes 10 days, 10 working days to get the results back. The results now come back, if it's all clear, in seven seconds. They don't give the result in seven seconds to the patient. It still has to go through a human process, but it's done incredibly swiftly. The second thing people will notice is if you have

very, very, very early stage disease such as lung cancer, AI is far, far better at detecting that than human beings are. So humans working with AI in this way is transformational. And it's trying to make the public sector more efficient, frankly, at a time when we don't have much money to play with. So I guess the hope is that it will make public services cheaper.

There's an awful lot that will be used in public services, and I'm going to be saying an awful lot more about that in the coming weeks and months, and I can't wait to start talking about some of it. But already, my department is piloting AI productivity tools. We have a tool called CADDI, for example, which is sitting alongside call center operatives. We trialed it with Citizens Advice Bureau, and they absolutely loved it.

So we use AI models similar to ChatGPT and we trained it not on public information. We trained it on the services which the call centers relate to and uses an assistant to the call center handler. It expedites the call, makes things much more focused

It means that the call centre operative has access to far more information that they can then pass on. That's been very productive. We're now using that in other parts of government to see where that could be used effectively. There's a second tool called Redbox, for example, which is used for productivity in the way that civil servants support ministers with the information that we require. And in some cases, that has delivered productivity gains, wait for it, of 400%.

Just imagine what it's like. So if I ask for a piece of advice from my officials saying, you know, I'd like to look at activity online relating to knife crime, for example, they would have to go away and look at all the previous legislation going back decades and decades to see how what I'm asking for is impacted by legislation that's already on statute. Well, AI can do that in seconds or, you know, a couple of minutes.

whereas that would take sometimes well over a week's work for a civil servant. So these sorts of productivity gains are going to be absolutely enormous in government, and we are not even touching the sides of how we can comprehend

AI will deliver a better government on behalf of citizens in this country yet. Will we see a smaller civil service? I think we're going to see, like most workplaces, we're going to see adaptation. You know, what we aspire to is having a civil service that is the size that's required to deliver what the government needs on behalf of the citizens of our country. And AI is going to impact the way the civil service operates and the size and shape of the civil service in very specific ways, not overall, but in very specific ways

across the way that we serve, the way we're structured to serve the country. There was a lot of upset last year when the government changed and it looked like the exascale computer at Edinburgh University was being cancelled. It seems like from your announcement this week, you are bringing in a supercomputer for the UK. Could you tell me about that and what your aims are for it? Yeah, that was a really difficult thing to do.

What happened, you have to understand when you come into these jobs, the first job I've ever had in elected government is as Secretary of State.

And you come in, of course, on the back of a manifesto, policies you've been championing for sometimes years that you are so passionate about. And then the first thing you do is just get the full rundown on the state of the department and its finances, what projects and programs are underway, how they're being financed. And one of the things I saw in those very early days was it was a verbal commitment by the previous administration to pay for an £800 million supercomputer project.

But there was no funding for it. No funding had been allocated for it. So it was all smoke and mirrors. The project didn't actually exist, except in the words that were being said to stakeholders and to the country. So I made a decision, which was a difficult decision, but it was the honest one, just to admit that the project didn't exist. And since that time, I've been thinking very carefully about how we build the supercomputing capacity we need as a country. And

Straight away, I can now announce the expansion by a third of the Isambard supercomputer in Bristol. I've extended the existing supercomputer that's up in Edinburgh by another year so that we have the time so that researchers who depend on it can still access it whilst I think of a long-term strategy. And I'll announce that strategy into the spring.

But I can just promise you that every word of it will be fully costed, fully funded. It will happen. And those projects will be sustainable going into the future. But when it comes to the general compute capacity that we need as a country, so the ability to process data and get that data back to the services that are using it and harnessing it and putting it to work for our economy and people overall.

We are pledged to increase that capacity by 20 fold in five years, by 2030. Really ambitious, working really closely with the private sector and investors to get that kind of investment out there into our economy. And just yesterday announced £14 billion worth of new investment into those particular services and that infrastructure, which I'm really excited about. Do you worry that that compute power doesn't touch the sides of what the big tech companies have?

What I worry about is that as the global economy, I almost said steams forward, but actually that's an old fashioned analogy to use in the digital age. But as the global economy charges forward and overwhelmingly the growth, the opportunities are going to be digital and digital related, then

What worries me is that Britain isn't so close to the leading edge that it's not able to be part of the creation of innovation, the harnessing innovation, keeping the intellectual property rights that flows from it in our country and all of the benefits of it for our country and our people.

you know aren't harnessed properly that's the thing that worries me the most we will always be okay as a country but that's not what i came into politics for and that's not what i believe our country needs we will be okay if we just carried on as we were but being okay doesn't match the potential we have as a country and when you read the action plan yesterday you see you know ambition after ambition after ambition that matches the scale of potential we have as a country and to capture it this government

has to really, really do things that no government has done in the past. But if we come back to that point of power, I mean, you've got the investment in sovereign compute and the compute power for the UK. All of the big power around AI is happening in the US. And if you look at who the big companies are, the big investments that big tech is making in the likes of Anthropic in OpenAI, how can we compete with that? And how can you put limits around that power?

Well, we can't put limits around a private company that is domiciled in another country. What we can do is build out the

the capacity we have as a country and do what we've done with setting up a sovereign AI unit based in number 10 Downing Street, headed up by Matt Clifford, who did the report, is very widely respected. The whole idea of that is an acknowledgement that all of the ingredients that make Silicon Valley special, magical in some ways, if you're an innovator looking for finance, actually exist here in the UK.

But they're not being coordinated. They're not focused in a way that really maximizes innovation. So that sovereign unit is using the power of the prime minister there in Downing Street reporting to me as well so that we can really harness and coordinate so we can create the circumstances where the kind of companies that we're talking about, the Microsofts and the Anthropics and Open AIs, that they can emerge from within Britain and we can keep them here in Britain because Google DeepMind emerged here. It was spun out of UCL. And then it got sold to Google. But it was sold...

And it was sold to Google for 400 million and it's now worth probably well over 10 billion, I'd imagine. So, you know, we need to make sure we do that. But let me just make this point. And that is that I'm not seeking to... The relationship with some of these big tech companies, you know, has to be a really respectful one, one that puts the national interest first, but also recognises the scale of...

of the innovation that they are undertaking. Amazon alone spends more on R&D in singular technological development purposes than the British state does in entirety.

That gives you a scale of what it takes to innovate on the size that they are. And this is why they have space programs, because they can spend that kind of resource on it. And why Britain, when we have to sort of support science and R&D across the whole landscape. So when it comes to these companies, they can do things that we at the moment can't do. And in fact, the American state isn't capable of doing as well.

So we need to have a relationship which is respectful, challenging, but also shows that Britain is a fantastic place to come and do their work, which is why all of the companies that you've mentioned are all building out operations here in the UK. Yesterday, we announced £14 billion worth of new investment into the UK. Over £10 billion of that was from US companies. So we are already seen as a great place to invest,

But I hope as we go forward, we will add to that by being the best place to actually upscale innovation and create the kind of companies, the Microsofts of the future. The Department of Culture used to be wrapped into tech or vice versa. And now we've got two separate departments, Department for Culture and Department for Tech. And in that time, there's also been a row between the tech and the creative industries over copyright issues.

And it seems as if your department has triumphed that the tech companies will get this sort of opt-out system that they've wanted of copyright, which is a more easy way of using other people's data, which is worrying the creative industries. And some have said that the government has been beguiled by big tech, I think is what one individual said.

What are your reflections on that and where we've landed on copyright? So let me just say how proud I am to live in a country where we have the second biggest creative arts community sector in the world. And we have the third largest market for AI in the world. Because what you've just described is two sectors that are competing against each other and one wants to have victory over the other. And that is not the case here.

What I want to do is not pick a side or make a choice. And what people have been encouraging me to do is to do just that.

and what I will not do is say, "Okay, I'm going to say no to that industry and let that just pop off to some other country where they can embrace it." Because believe me, every other country in the world wants to have the third largest AI market and the second largest creative arts market in the world. I mean, they do.

So let's not make a choice between one or the other. Let's find a way forward where both sectors can thrive, can move forward, can exploit all of the opportunities that are out there. And then we as a country can start shaping those sectors, shaping those industries, harnessing

all of the wonderful opportunities they provide for great jobs, wealth creation, but also our power around the world, our influence around the world is shaped by these things, cultural and technological.

So I've released a consultation on this. I put forward some proposals that I think give a pretty good way through this that not only protect the rights of people and their intellectual property when they create music and they create artistic endeavor, which is incredible...

but also allows tech companies to come here and train their models here. The alternative isn't incidentally that AI just goes away and doesn't lap our shores. The alternative is that it goes away and it does its business and it comes back as a finished product and laps our shores over which we have no influence and we haven't benefited from the creation. And the people who have great digital skills in our country go abroad to work.

So let's not pretend that there is a way through this that just gives primacy to one or the other and there is no impact on it. And the same goes for creative arts. If we get this wrong, I know full well that many of those people will leave the country as well and seek a better place. But right now, I think we've found a way through that delivers for both. I know that it's disruptive because...

the very nature of what both sectors do is disruptive.

I'm trying to find a way through that captures the best and make sure that we don't have to pick one side over the other. Are you off to Paris for the Action Summit, the AI Action Summit? I am. In February? I am. What are you going to be pressing for there? Well, recognising that the work of the Safety Institute that we have here is absolutely world-leading. That is recognised. I want the work that we do of safety to be the first step, but not the only step. You'll notice that the AI Opportunities Action Plan, I think, rebalances that. So we as a country can now focus on the...

exploitation of all of this incredible opportunity that AI presents. But we can only do that because we have safety rights. So I am grateful to Rishi Sunak for setting up the Safety Institute. That provides us with a great opportunity, a springboard into the opportunity side now. And that's what we're grabbing with both hands. So this is the spirit with which we'll be going to France.

celebrating the work of the Safety Institute, making sure that is recognised, its work contributes towards the global good. But then we start to have a look in the round at what AI offers and how we can come together to grasp it. This episode of the Times Tech Podcast is sponsored by Vanta. Let's talk about something that might be keeping you up at night, cybersecurity. According to Vanta's latest State of Trust report, it's the number one concern for UK businesses. And that's where Vanta comes in.

Whether you're a startup, growing fast or already established, Fanta can help you get ISO 27001 certified and more without the headaches.

And Vanta allows your company to centralize security workflows, complete questionnaires up to five times faster and proactively manage vendor risk to help your team not only get compliant, but stay compliant. So stop stressing over cybersecurity and start focusing on growing your business in 2025. Check out Vanta and let them handle the tough stuff. Head to vanta.com forward slash the times tech to learn more.

Because when it comes to your business, it's not just about keeping the lights on. It's about keeping everything secure. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same premium wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistants assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today.

I'm told it's super easy to do at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of $45 for three-month plan, equivalent to $15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See full terms at mintmobile.com.

Millions of people have lost weight with personalized plans from Noom. Like Evan, who can't stand salads and still lost 50 pounds. Salads generally for most people are the easy button, right? For me, that wasn't an option. I never really was a salad guy. That's just not who I am. But Noom worked for me. Get your personalized plan today at Noom.com. Real Noom user compensated to provide their story. In four weeks, the typical Noom user can expect to lose one to two pounds per week. Individual results may vary.

Let's talk about Elon Musk. You said to The Times this week that you'd happily have dinner with him. And I think you said he's probably quite a laugh, which is probably true. Well, yeah, I mean, it was just highlighting the fact that, you know, when it comes to innovation, you know, there is nothing I wouldn't do to put the national interest first. When it comes to tech, when it comes to science, when it comes to wealth creation, job creation, I will always put the national interest first. And you can imagine in this job,

I meet a lot of people that I wouldn't agree with or I don't usually sort of, you know, wouldn't socially, you know, click with. But I will always do what it takes to build relationships and do so in a way that harnesses opportunities for our country. Lots of people, for very obvious and understandable reasons, are focusing on Elon Musk. But I aspire to build relationships on behalf of this country, you know, right across the tech landscape and not just in...

the US, but also in the EU and in India and in other parts of the world, which are innovating at a really great rate. I've had the first bilateral conversation with my counterpart in China for many, many years. And that is something I think we need to pay attention to because there are areas where we can put the national interest first and also make sure that we are taking care of our

national security and any other issues that we have. We need to be a sophisticated government that uses statecraft

in a way that our country has not seen for quite some time now. And that is something I think we're putting a lot of effort into. On Elon Musk, though, if you did have to sit next to him at dinner, or if you were lucky enough to sit next to Elon Musk at dinner, depending on your viewpoint, what would you talk to him about? I think it's fairly obvious. I mean, the thing I'd love to have a conversation with him about is about driving innovation, upscaling innovation.

I mean, with Tesla, people didn't think it could be as disruptive as it was. People didn't think it could be as successful as it was, you know, fully electric at the time he was pushing it. The same with space. You know, I would love to know how that kind of innovation could be upscaled. I mean, it's almost a different word because scale doesn't quite capture it. The enormity of the scientific challenges that he undertakes are incredible, but

But don't get me wrong. There would also be conversations where I would point out that I think his view of Britain that he's been expressing in recent weeks is wrong. I would also ensure that my love and admiration for

for Jess Phillips and the work she's done to protect people is astonishing. You know, what Jess has done for women is equal to what he's done, you know, in his world, you know, when you come to the women that she's kept safe over time. So these are just conversations that I would have, but don't ever think that the bread and butter of safety for our country and the core issues of respecting our values as a country aren't first considered.

aren't the first step in any conversation I have when I meet counterparts around the world.

I have to say, I was quite surprised that his brain jumped to innovation when I asked him that. I was like, come on. Especially given at the moment how Elon Musk has been trolling so many people in his party. I thought he was going to jump in there with a comment about, you know, anyway. Well, when he was like, the wind up was like, well, it's quite obvious. And I was like, obviously you're talking about him and trying to like bring down the current government of which you are a part.

No, I want to talk about innovation. Tesla space. But he did get there in the end. I have to say that to him. He did finally defend some of his friends and colleagues. Do you know, I have a question. This is a pop quiz. Go on. Over the last two years, how much the hyperscalers, you know, Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Meta,

In the last two years, how much they have spent on AI infrastructure? Great question. Microsoft, I think, announced a billion pounds in British data centers last year. I'm talking global. Yeah, I know. I mean, I can't even begin. $10 billion? $400 billion. Yeah, I was going to say $10 billion is silly actually thinking about it. It was just one in the UK from one company. $400 billion. And we're like, well...

That's the GDP of someone, somewhere. Yeah, if we could get a 800 million quid supercomputer, we're going to see if we can make it happen. It's hard to figure out how to find your place in this world where you have these companies that are... Seven of the eight largest companies on the planet are all on the West Coast. The only one that's not is Saudi Aramco. Most of these guys, software companies, are making so much money that you can do missions to Mars as a side piece.

When they're talking about a single 800 million pound supercomputer and how like they're really going to try to make that happen. You're kind of like, you know, when you step back in the context, you're like, oh, that's a nice little supercomputer you have there. You know, we've got a dozen of those each. It's for somebody much smarter than I to figure out how you as a country carve out

your place in amongst all of these, you know, this handful of private companies that are so powerful and have so much money and in many cases have more money than governments to deploy on the stuff. And you could hear him say that in the interview, when he said he, I think he used the word respectful. We need to have a respectful relationship with these big tech companies. And I guess it's actually like a relationship that you would have

with the government. I mean, you probably end up needing to have your own diplomatic relationship with them. Yeah. Because they're going to be implementing so much of the technology here. The other thing is, I think it's really interesting in all of this is, you know, you have going back to where we just started the conversation with our helmets and swords is you have Zuckerberg and Bezos and Musk on the inauguration stage with Donald Trump.

And part of Zuckerberg's thing was like, we are going to lean on the Trump administration to help us, you know, fight back against these governments who are trying to control us, who are trying to censor us, who are trying to kind of make us do things we don't want to do. And in that context of the UK and Europe being the leading edge of regulation, you kind of wonder what that's going to look like when all of a sudden you have, again, these

multi-trillion dollar companies all getting in lockstep with the president and being like, all right, now we're all in this together and we're going to make sure America wins. And we don't like being regulated by anybody and certainly not

Europe, the UK, etc. Yeah, it's a big show of masculine energy and power. And I think you're right. You can hear him trying to navigate that. And it was interesting, recently the government made Claire Barkley, who's the UK boss of Microsoft, the chair of the Industrial Strategy Advisory Council. So it's a governmental advisory role.

On one level, you can see that, you know, she's an influential person here. She's got a lot of experience. But there were some accusations leveled at the government at Microsoft that that relationship was too cozy, given that Microsoft wins lots and lots of government contracts. So, yeah, there's a lot to navigate. And the power dynamic is just going to be really interesting because, you know, these are companies with the income and kind of...

money of of nation states small nation states but nation states nonetheless and the power of their technology far outstrips the kind of the the dollars and cents so it'll be interesting to see as it develops as you know we're two years into this ai revolution and the more and more people you talk to be like this is the year it's going to start to hit we're starting to see it with places like meta we're like you know what we're going to do a lot more with less they're still going to hire some people back but you can start to see like startups

That might have hired 10 people to get off the ground and now have four because they're using these AI agents to do a lot of the busy work and a lot of that mid-level stuff that humans used to do. So you're starting to see this trickle into the real economy. So I just think it's going to be a really...

tumultuous, messy few years. Yeah, and it's easy to be negative about these things, but it is great that they've got a plan in place and Matt Clifford, the entrepreneur who's been working on it, is really very much a part of the UK tech scene. But part of the plan was how you encourage homegrown UK AI businesses, which segues us on very nicely. That's why they pay the big bucks. That was a beautiful segue. To...

Our special guest today in our virtual podcast studio, it says here, but actually he's in his shed. Yes. His man cave. Super masculine man cave. We have Richard Tyler. Richard Tyler is the editor of the Times Enterprise Network and a colleague of me and Danny. And he's responsible for the new Sunday Times list of 100 fastest growing tech firms. Hello, Richard. Hi, guys. Hi. Thanks for having me on. Hello. Hello. From my man cave just outside of Oxford.

hub of technology. The script says from the dreaming spires, but you just look like you're in a sauna. Yeah, I'm afraid so. Just listening to some of what Peter Kyle was saying there, I mean, how

How realistic do you think that this is going to be sort of picked up by small British AI companies? And how have startups, AI startups responded to what he had to say this week? Well, I think they've all welcomed the action plan, but then want to see the follow through, don't they? They're already on to the next steps. So what does it mean for them now?

How is this plan going to enable them to engage with government more easily? You know, government public spending is an enormous facilitator for AI startups. We've seen that with DARPA in America. We've got ARIA here in the UK, haven't we now? Sort of copying that model now.

you know, there are lots of companies on the ranking that we've just done where government is an important client. So that making that engagement with government and being hearing from government what the priorities are, I think is really important. Then it's

It's all the other things I'm sure you've touched on, like infrastructure, compute and access to talent and skills, sorting out the visa system. You know, is Britain open to the world or not? Is it fair to say you've been doing these type of lists, which are really, in a way, an assessment of the health of the British small, medium sized startup ecosystem?

That you've been doing this for some years, correct? Correct. So I guess my question is, how does this feel, quote unquote, is this time different? How do people feel? Because a lot of the kind of the mood music, certainly from abroad, is like, you know, it's doom and gloom in the UK. Keir Starmer's coming in and it's like, wow, there's no money or it's going to be tough and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

But for your sense, tracking down these hundred super interesting, fast growing tech companies, what's your kind of takeaway from the kind of the vibes as it were? Well, the vibes are positive. Comparing it with when we've done this research before.

I guess what we're seeing this time is a lot more digital health apps, more hardware. In the past, we've seen a lot of sort of technology being applied to the provision of services or ways of engaging consumers, direct-to-consumer related e-commerce. And, you know...

Imagine in the 2010s, there was the emergence of digital marketing, all those agencies that suddenly took on and worked with the super scalers to help businesses communicate and market themselves. So there were sort of shifts then. Whereas this ranking, we do see a lot of fintech and cleantech. But on the hardware side, we're seeing lots of really interesting companies. And then just in terms of the music,

If you put aside the decline in venture capital funding that we have seen globally since the peak in the pandemic, because the funding environment is still quite tough.

All these guys are gaining commercial traction. So it's not tech can talk a good game, can't it? Sometimes it can be an element of hype. Whereas all these hundred companies, we're ranking them on their growth in actual revenues. So they're growing phenomenally quickly. So people are buying their services, all their goods.

And what we need them to do is take that step up. We want to build big tech companies in this country. These guys are up to about 250 million turnover. Yeah. We want them to take that next step. So the lists, the thing that people like about lists, who's number one? Who's number one? Okay, so I can reveal it. It's a Manchester-based business called Evergreen, available on all good app stores. They're a digital health services business.

And what I really like about them, tech companies can sometimes get a bit frustrated with the NHS in Britain, that it's not, it's slow, it's resistance to change, it's not innovative enough. And so they've got this amazing, shiny new way of doing something. And why doesn't the NHS buy it from us?

Whereas whatever Green seem to have done is they've gone in and gone, well, how can we help? And some NHS trusts have then given them contracts to provide particular services because they've proven they can do it. And off the back of that, they've cleverly looked at the service and thought, how can we apply machine learning and AI to improve it?

So, for example, so in the space of 18 months, they've become Britain's leading provider of dermatology services, the founder tells me, which is amazing. And they've taken waiting lists down from 35 weeks to three days just using patients.

technology to do that and rethinking how the service was provided previously. Great example in their 36 million turnover and expecting a far higher figure this year. And sales growth over three years, 554%. Yeah, the rankings, like they're number one because of the rate of their sales growth, correct? That's the kind of the metric? Absolutely. Yeah. So we measure over three years. So it's the average rate. So they're clocking in

554 a year for three years. So it's not a point to point. That's the average. So it's a rocket ship. And is there, of that 100 list, what's the weirdest one? Or the one where you're like, oh my gosh, this is just interesting or cool or unexpected? I'll go for interesting. I love...

I love businesses that are going to send rockets up into space. So you mentioned Elon Musk before. We've got one called Skyrora that's trying to launch rockets from the Shetland Islands. Oh. Making really good progress. It sort of talks... So I love the fact they're on there. We've got lots of other space businesses on there as well. But Skyrora, it sort of talks to...

some of the Secretary of State sort of promises. I mean, they've been waiting for two years to get regulatory approval for their launches. And it's been pushed back and pushed back and pushed back. So look, from the Shetlands from the show from the bus you Yeah,

But it would be nice to launch some rockets from the United Kingdom. So talk to me about the masculine energy on this list then. How many of these businesses are run by women? We've got 17 of the 100. So either run or founded, co-founded by women. So obviously far fewer than we would like to see. I mean, this isn't us just selecting companies. So these companies select themselves based on their financial performance. So it's not that we're...

actively excluding anyone. It's just how we find it when we look at their financial performance. Is that higher or lower than usual? Female-founded businesses are typically between 20, so actually around 20%. So slightly less in tech. Slightly less. And it's good news. The number one company has a female chief executive. So Evergreen Life has a female chief executive. She's an ex-chief exec of an NHS trust.

Caroline Shaw, and the fastest growing hardware company, which is a data center business called Pure Data Centers, is run by Dane Dawn Chards, an ex-RAF wing commander. She's got a sword. Yeah. Just lastly, when you're doing these lists, I imagine it's quite...

cool because you're kind of digging up all these like fast growing companies. Do you walk away feeling like kind of jazzed about life and like, you know, how the way things are developing for the UK? It's great. It's like pouring a bucket of

over you because it has been a bit gloomy. A bucket of hope. What a lovely way of describing it. Can I add to the bucket of hope? I just spotted one of the names on the list is Synthesia. One of the ones that you've got a little purple unicorn next to to show it's a unicorn. And they've just raised $180 million valuing the company at $2.1 billion. There you go. Very cool. Bucket of hope. I'm going to put my helmet on.

So, you know, if I get poured, if there's a bucket of hope, I have a little bit of protection. This episode of the Times Tech Podcast is sponsored by Vanta. Let's talk about something that might be keeping you up at night. Cybersecurity. According to Vanta's latest State of Trust report, it's the number one concern for UK businesses. And that's where Vanta comes in.

Whether you're a startup, growing fast or already established, Fanta can help you get ISO 27001 certified and more without the headaches.

And Vanta allows your company to centralize security workflows, complete questionnaires up to five times faster and proactively manage vendor risk to help your team not only get compliant, but stay compliant. So stop stressing over cybersecurity and start focusing on growing your business in 2025. Check out Vanta and let them handle the tough stuff. Head to vanta.com forward slash the times tech to learn more.

Because when it comes to your business, it's not just about keeping the lights on. It's about keeping everything secure. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it at Progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.