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cover of episode IN-DEPTH: Greatness on Trial (w/ Brad Stulberg and Clay Skipper)

IN-DEPTH: Greatness on Trial (w/ Brad Stulberg and Clay Skipper)

2025/3/6
logo of podcast Deep Questions with Cal Newport

Deep Questions with Cal Newport
AI Deep Dive AI Chapters Transcript
People
B
Brad Stulberg
C
Cal Newport
通过深度工作和数字极简主义等概念，推动人们重新思考工作方法和技术使用方式。
C
Clay Skipper
Topics
Cal Newport: 我观察到人们对“伟大”的看法存在矛盾。一方面，我们厌恶那些表演性的“伪伟大”，例如Elon Musk拿着电锯在台上表演。另一方面，我们仍然欣赏真正的技能和努力，并希望在生活中追求卓越。我们需要区分“伪生产力”和“真正生产力”，前者是表演性的忙碌，后者是真正有意义的工作。知识工作领域普遍存在“伪生产力”现象，我们需要更聪明地去定义和改进工作方式，而不是简单地妖魔化“努力”的概念。 Brad Stulberg: 我认为要区分“伪伟大/伪努力”和“真正伟大/真正努力”。前者是表演性的，例如Elon Musk的举动，而后者是有意义的，并且符合道德规范。我们既欣赏伟大与努力，又怀疑努力是否是资本主义体系的产物，这反映了我们对“伟大”的矛盾态度。高效的努力并不意味着要睡在办公室的地板上，Elon Musk的例子表明，他同时管理多个公司，每个公司的时间投入有限。人们对Elon Musk行为的批评，并非否定努力本身的价值，而是对伪装努力的厌恶。 Clay Skipper: 忙碌已取代优质工作成为衡量生产力的指标，人们追求看起来很忙，而非真正做好工作。在知识工作领域，我们需要区分“伪生产力”和“真正生产力”。对自身、生活和价值观的安全感决定了我们对“伟大”的态度：安全感强的人能欣赏伟大，而不必盲目追求。运动员有客观的衡量标准（输赢），而知识工作者则依赖于主观指标（例如工作时长），这加剧了对努力的误解。工作已成为身份认同的来源，人们通过工作来获得自我价值感，这导致了对工作时长的过度强调。

Deep Dive

Chapters
This chapter explores the complex relationship between hard work and greatness. It questions whether the current valorization of hard work is always positive, distinguishing between performative hard work and genuine effort towards meaningful goals. The discussion highlights the tension between admiration for mastery and skepticism towards the performative aspects of hard work often showcased by public figures like Elon Musk.
  • Discussion of Eric Baker's New York Times op-ed on Elon Musk's work ethic.
  • Distinction between performative and actual hard work.
  • Debate on whether hard work is inherently good or a product of capitalism.

Shownotes Transcript

In this episode of IN-DEPTH, Cal is joined by the writers Brad Stulberg and Clay Skipper to talk about the topic of “greatness.” They attempt to pick apart the weird moment we are in where, on the one hand, we feel aversion to performative demonstrations of “pseudo-greatness” (think: Elon Musk on-stage with his chainsaw) but on the other, still admire useful skill and seek it in our own lives. 

Video from today’s episode:  youtube.com/calnewportmedia)

INTERVIEW: Greatness on Trial (w/ Brad Stulberg and Clay Skipper)

Links:https://www.landroverusa.com)https://www.calnewport.com/slow)

Thanks to Jesse Miller for production, Jay Kerstens for the intro music, Kieron Rees for the theme music, and Mark Miles for mastering.