Authors of two new novels draw inspiration from history in wildly different ways
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Hey, it's NPR's Book of the Day. I'm Andrew Limbaugh. And today we have two wildly different ways novelists can use history to inspire their writing. In a bit, we'll hear about a book where Harriet Tubman comes back to life to start a career as a rapper. But first, the author Emma Donoghue is on the pod talking about her novel, The Paris Express.

It's inspired by a famous photograph from 1895. And in this interview with Emperor Steve Inskeep, Donahue talks about doing a massive amount of research for this book because, as she says, facts are often more amazingly strange than anything she could think up. That's ahead.

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Support for NPR and the following message come from Jarl and Pamela Moan, thanking the people who make public radio great every day, and also those who listen. A famous photo from 1895 is the basis for many posters and the occasional social media meme. It shows an old-fashioned steam locomotive that couldn't stop, crashed all the way through a railroad terminal, and tumbled out onto the street on the far side. The

The novelist Emma Donoghue saw that photo. Her earlier novels include Room, which is the story of a mother and child trapped in a room, which became a film. Now Donoghue's novel The Paris Express tries to imagine what life was like for travelers on that train in 1895. An express train set off from Granville on the Normandy coast and headed straight for Paris. It was only meant to stop four times along the route and it was meant to get in by four o'clock.

And it all went horribly wrong, Steve. There were some important guests on the train, you know, VIPs. There were three members of parliament. And one of them asked, could the train possibly stop near his country house for his carriage to be put on? And that delayed the train by 10 minutes, which was enough to bring on disaster because the driver and Stoker, the entire crew, would have felt under massive pressure to get to Paris on time despite this delay. Yeah.

This would have counted, I think, as a minor train accident and not remembered to history at all, except for a particular photograph.

You're so right. In fact, it's a cluster of photographs. Lots of people rushed to the scene of the disaster and took pictures, amateurs as well as professionals. But all of them show an incongruous image of a train plunging out a window almost vertically. I don't know how I hadn't come across this in half a century, maybe because I never was in residence at a university and it's a very popular dorm room image.

But basically, it's that combination of modernity and high tech and really impressive signs of industry and speed and then complete disasters. You said that you, until recently, were not familiar with this image as a poster and a bit of pop culture. So what got you interested in the story?

I happened to be going to live in the area of Montparnasse in Paris for a year because my partner is a French professor. That was the only place we could find a three bedroom flat for us and our large children. So I Googled it. And the first thing I saw was multiple copies of this photograph from 1895.

And I just thought, that's the most arresting image I've ever seen. And I looked it up and thought, why has nobody written a novel about this? Now, you could have made up everything except the final image, but you seem instead to have done a bunch of research. How did you go about learning about this?

You know, I find the facts are often more amazingly strange than anything I could make up. I research things really very much as if I'm doing solid history. You know, I use databases. I use newspapers. I was able to look up a wonderful horde of bureaucracy. But then there always comes a moment when the facts run out. So I enjoy making stuff up just as much.

When you're making stuff up, I'm interested in this detail. Sometimes writers of historical fiction will say, I make stuff up that is consistent with the historical record that could have happened even if nobody knows that it did. Do you try that? Yes. For instance, I didn't have an individual coffee seller person to use on my train, but I spotted in a photograph in the Paris Historical Museum, I spotted an amazing image of somebody wearing a gigantic tank over

on their back, full of hot coffee, which he served out of little taps on his chest. And I thought, okay, that is clearly credible for the time to have a human coffee pot serving the busy commuters. And what a modern image.

When you began learning about some of the passengers on the train, what are some of the kinds of people you found? We all know that on a train, there's going to be a vivid example of the class system because people are literally segregated into nice red velvet covered carriages in first class and then horrible cramped carriages in third class.

But I also found diversity in other ways because France was the center of its own empire, right? So you've got Cambodian students, you've North African coffee sellers, you've expats and American painters visiting like Henry Osso a Tanner. You have troublemakers and anarchists and lowlifes visiting Paris. You have inventors, you have writers, you've queers, you've feminists.

Well, let's remember what railroads were doing in the 1800s when they were the hot new technology. How were they changing society?

Well, for instance, on my train, the local makers of Camembert, they were able to ship their cheeses across the world before the cheeses got too stinky. So suddenly your man and woman in a village in Normandy could ship their cheeses to New York. And that meant they could actually stay in their village and they could make money there. So it had a huge influence on the settlement patterns, immigration patterns there.

Trains were astonishingly central to the shaping of Europe. It was the perfect vehicle for a novel because a train moves from beginning to end with unexpected events along the way, just like a novel. And I think you're right that it's transforming commerce, but also communication, but also society and where people live and how people work and essentially everything. Right.

Oh, and time, for instance. Suddenly you had to have standardized time zones because the trains were the first things that could, you know, whiz from one state in America to another fast enough that they might actually collide with each other if they weren't working on the same time. So suddenly people had to start standardizing their watches. Did the experience of writing this book change the way that you thought about the next time you were checking email or doing something online or whatever you were doing in modern times?

You know, writing this book didn't turn me into a Luddite, but it certainly helped me think in a very practical way about the costs of our technology and our longing to get there faster and easier and smoother. The ideal of the frictionless life, it's always based on somebody else's hard labor. If it didn't turn you into a Luddite, what did it do? Just make you try to appreciate all the unseen parts of our lives? Yes, and be aware that you can make decisions. I mean, you know,

One of the reasons the train crashed is, I would say, the big railway companies, they had an implicit policy of, yeah, go ahead and speed. You know, in theory, the drivers weren't meant to speed, but the company was like, we'll give you all a good big bonus if you get to Paris on time, despite delays, you know, and any delays caused by the passengers. Can you make up that time, please? It also made me think a lot about my own mortality, actually, because the train, again, starts to seem like an image of a human life. You know, you think you have all the way till Paris.

But there can be an interruption and a derailment at any moment. I am thinking of the popular Internet phrase, move fast and break things, which has been repeated a lot recently because of Elon Musk's actions in Washington. This train was moving fast and breaking things. And you note the historical fact that the crew was in no way

particularly punished for the crash. No, no. These were just seen as the costs of doing business, to use another cliche. Emma Donahue is the author of The Paris Express, her latest novel. It's been a pleasure talking with you. Thank you so much. A pleasure. It's been all mine, Steve. Thank you. This message comes from NPR sponsor FX. Presenting Dying for Sex, starring Michelle Williams, Jenny Slate, Rob Delaney, Jay Duplass, and Sissy Spacek.

This series follows Molly, who after receiving a terminal cancer diagnosis, decides to leave her husband to explore the full breadth of her sexual desires. She gets the courage and support to go on this adventure from her best friend Nikki, who stays by her side through it all. FX's Dying for Sex, all episodes now streaming on Hulu.

All author Bob the Drag Queen wanted to do was write a book about Harriet Tubman rapping. That nugget of an idea is where the new novel, Harriet Tubman Live in Concert, begins. But it just so happens that the only way to justify that premise is to have a bunch of other historical figures come back to life too. Here's NPR's Ayesha Roscoe.

You can call Bob the Drag Queen a lot of things. Performer, musician, comedian, and recently, traitor. Now you can add one more thing to that list. Author.

Bob's new book is all about one of his idols, Harriet Tubman, who he's called the first black superhero. In fact, when asked this question on Ziwe Fumadou's talk show, who would win in a fight, Harriet Tubman or Spider-Man? Bob did not hesitate. I'm going to go with Harriet Tubman. Harriet Tubman is a scout for the U.S. military.

The cardio on this woman from below the Mason Dixie to Canada 12 times. Bob the Drag Queen is here now to talk about his new book, Harriet Tubman, live in concert. Welcome to Week in Edition. Hi, I'm happy to be here. Thank you for having me. In your story, you have these larger than life historical figures come back to life, including Harriet Tubman. Can you give us a little taste? Got it.

I never thought this day would come. When so many figures from the past started returning, I just kept hoping that Harriet would show. Not only did she show, but she reached out to me. I still have the invite, she sent me. A lovely little handwritten note. Get over here, Harriet Tubman. With the address of the studio, I think I'll have it framed. What?

What kind of help does Harriet want from Darnell? And Darnell is your main character. Harriet Tubman wants to continue her work as an abolitionist. She's interested in freedom. Freedom is her guiding light. And obviously the goalpost for freedom has moved from what it was when Harriet Tubman started her work as a conductor on the Underground Railroad.

So she wants to reach a lot of people. And hip hop is a magnificent form of art that has reached millions of people. So she reaches out to Darnell, who is a former Grammy Award winning producer, and she wants his help with reaching the masses. So where did your love of Harriet Tubman come from?

I'm from Atlanta, right? So I know a lot of people talk about their work in school when they did Black History Month. Well, in Atlanta, we take it very, very seriously. Like, we teach black history all throughout the year. I just remember every time I learned something new about Harriet Tubman, it sounded unbelievable. But yet, tons and tons of historians are able to corroborate all these stories. She did things that seemed otherworldly. I mean, she even had superpowers. She had precognition. She was getting divine insight on where to go, where not to go, what to do, what not to do in ways of staying safe. And...

make roughly a dozen trips back and forth without ever getting caught one time, never losing a passenger on the Underground Railroad is a really big accomplishment. She's possibly the most remarkable person to ever live. When did you come up with the idea of having historical figures come back to life?

I never had a desire to write a book about people come back to life. I just want to write a book about heritability and running a hip hop album. And then I had to justify it. And I had to justify it. Yeah. Yeah. And it's not sci-fi. When you read the book, you're not going to be going deep into how it happened. You know, the molecular structure of the DNA, four, three times, it's not all that. The book is like, it's happening and we're in his hair. We haven't figured it out yet. It's just happening. And we're all just living with it, you know?

So you wanted Harriet Tubman and hip-hop to be mixing.

a little bit. Harriet Tubman used music when she did her work as an abolitionist, you know? She actually did use music. So it's actually not that far-fetched to imagine that Harriet Tubman would be using music today if she were actually still here doing things with us. Well, I mean, a lot of people may not know about Harriet Tubman's military service. I think most people know Underground Railroad, but there are lots that they don't know. And that's

explored in this book. Do you feel like this book is also a way to give a fuller picture of her life and to teach more to those people who may not have listened in history class or may not have been taught in history class about these facts about Harriet Tubman? So just to give Harriet Tubman her flowers, Harriet Tubman is not just the first woman to lead a U.S. military mission. To date, she is the only woman to have ever done it.

My book is not a history book. It takes place right now. You can learn things from it. She was a spy. She was a cook. She was a chef. She was a mother. She was a wife.

One of many siblings, she had so many odd and crazy and scary and remarkable things happen in her life. She opened up a home for formerly enslaved people who were reaching an age of retirement where she ended up living at the end of her life because she actually got scammed by people from her own community, even though she had done everything she had given every ounce of everything she had to help people. And I think that stuff is really important.

Who do you look at as the audience for this book? I know it's not a history book. I mean, the truth is I am the target audience for this book. I wrote a book that I would want to read. If you're a theater nerd, if you're a Black queer, if you're a millennial, if you're a history buff, if you like hip-hop music, if you like absurd concepts, this book could be for you. I got to ask you about your most recent TV appearance on The Traitors. I think we have a clip from that.

I will tell a truth, but I will never tell a lie. All of you know I've never lied. Guys, I said I swear to God. God! And that was a lie because I don't believe in God. I'm a traitor. Did you have that speech prepared?

No, I was making it up as I realized I was going home. I had so much adrenaline. I actually misspoke several times. I meant to say I will tell a joke, but I'll never tell a lie. That's what I meant to say. And then at the end, when I said I swear to God, I meant to say that wasn't a lie because I don't believe in God. Yeah.

That's what I meant to say, but I just had so much adrenaline coursing through my veins that it just came out wrong. But the idea got across. The idea, it definitely got across. It all worked out. For your fans who got to know you on Traitors and then before that on RuPaul's Drag Race, what should they expect when they get to this book? It's exciting.

It's another side of you. Would you say that's accurate? Yeah, it's not a memoir, y'all. It's not about my life. I'm not in this book. It's not stories of me and RuPaul or me at the club and the drag queens come in and we doing shots and we're voguing. That's not what this book is.

I mean, it has to do with me because I'm a Black American. And I do want people to know that it does show a different side of me. The book is called Harriet Tubman Live in Concert. There are songs in the book. Would you sing a little bit of one of the songs for us? For sure. Harriet says, I think it's time to write some good music. I mean, some hood music. I'm talking about, I wish some...

Oh my goodness. I love it. Now, I got to ask you, when you think about Harriet Tubman, you're thinking about freedom. What is freedom to you? I have a couple of quotes that I really love. One that I use is Chris Christopherson. And he says, you know, freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.

And I love when Nina Simone said, freedom means no fear. I mean, really, no fear. I love those definitions of freedom.

And am I completely free? No, I have fear. Living in our current administration, I have fear. You know, living in this world, I have fear. Fear of financial insecurity, fear of what's going to happen with my career, fear of what people think of me, fear of what's going to happen with these laws as I see actions against people of color and people who are disabled and queer people, specifically trans people. That does give me a lot of fear, actually.

But the thing about fear, though, that I always think about is that you can be afraid, but you keep going. And that's really Harriet Tubman, right? Oh, yeah. Keep going. No matter what, keep going. That's Bob the Drag Queen. His new book is Harriet Tubman Live in Concert. Thank you so much. Thank you.

That's it for this week on NPR's Book of the Day. Let us know what you think. You can write to us at bookoftheday at npr.org. I'm Andrew Limbaugh. The podcast is produced by Chloe Weiner and edited by Megan Sullivan. Our

Our founding editor is Petra Mayer. The show elements for this week were produced and edited by Michael Levitt, John Ketchum, Lennon Sherbourne, Sarah Handel, Gabriel Sanchez, Kira Joaquim, Christopher Intagliata, Julie Deppenbrock, Adriana Gallardo, Olivia Hampton, Elena Torek, and Melissa Gray. Yolanda Sanguini is our executive producer. Thanks for listening.

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