In 'Kingdom of No Tomorrow,' a young woman joins the Black Panther Party
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Hey, it's Empire's Book of the Day. I'm Andrew Limbaugh. There are costs to a revolution. That's true here in the U.S., and it's true in other countries too, such as in Haiti.

The two countries are linked in the novel Kingdom of No Tomorrow by Fabienne Josephin. It's about a young woman in the 1960s who leaves Haiti for the States and gets involved with the Black Panthers. In this interview with NPR's R. Shapiro, Josephin talks about what the revolutionary movement here and in Haiti had in common and what it takes for a movement to succeed. That's coming up.

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Sometimes history can help us better understand the present. The author Fabienne Josepha had that experience back in 2012 when she found helpful lessons from the Black Panther movement of the late 1960s. After the death of Trayvon Martin, I felt I was emotionally overwhelmed with everything that was going on in the country. I stumbled upon a documentary on the Black Panthers and

And I realized the more that I was learning about them, that they were very familiar to me. And then I remember that it's because I grew up with the Black Panthers on my father's reading shelf. That shelf was in Haiti, where she grew up. Today, Josepha lives in South Florida, and she's written a new novel about the Black Panthers called Kingdom of No Tomorrow. The protagonist, Nettie, is a young woman who moved from Haiti to Oakland, California, where

Josepha told me she thinks the Black Panther movement feels familiar to Haitians because it is about revolution. The Haitian history is steeped in the revolution that it had to conduct in order to free itself from colonialism. And when we're in the 60s,

We're observing a movement where people are trying to free themselves from the same types of issues. And in terms of the Black Panthers really protecting their community from the brutality of the police, but also to effect change in the community and take care of their people. I think those are elements that were recognizable to me, and I really wanted to

draw a parallel between both cultures because at the end of the day, I see a lot of similarities. Well, and I also wonder if bringing in the perspective of Haiti brings in the recognition that a revolution can succeed. I believe that a revolution can succeed, but we have to look at what success looks like. I think that we have to take into account the repercussions, which is what I think Huey P. Newton was talking about in terms of revolutionary ideas.

ideal is that the revolutionary person has to realize that first and foremost, it is a doomed person, because you have to embrace the consequences. And unfortunately for the Black Panthers and for the Haitian people, we are seeing the consequences of that need for revolution. As you were working on this novel, you did tons of research. The bibliography is long. Yeah.

Will you tell us a specific thing you discovered, a fact, a quote, a moment that just blew your mind, something that you bring up at dinner parties to this day?

I think maybe what the Panthers achieved in terms of the breakfast program is maybe the most known fact. The breakfast program, of course, was giving free food to kids whose families might not have been able to afford it. Exactly. And today we're still continuing that model of feeding kids in the morning with free breakfast in schools. I think that a lot of people do know about this, but they also probably don't know about the other achievements. And why I chose this

issue of sickle cell anemia in the novel was to... Your main character, Nettie, is participating in a research program into sickle cell anemia and treatment. Exactly, yes. So as a member of the party, she's

So researching and running testing on sickle cell anemia in the 60s, there was very little known or there was very little attention paid to the numbers and how much it was affecting the African-American population. And so the Black Panthers were the ones that pushed for that research, even started a foundation. And that was a fact that I thought was really interesting. When I bring this up, I realize a lot of people were not aware. Yeah.

There are so many narratives about the Black Panthers, from scaremongering propaganda to authoritative biographies and histories. How do you hope this book fits into that and shapes people's understanding of the movement?

I find that fiction, what fiction does is bring the human element and tells us not just what happened, but how it made us feel in the moment. And so I'm hoping that this book will reanimate that passion for wanting to love and protect community, but also for wanting to appreciate the real history and see the Panthers, the Giants, that they really were in terms of wanting to affect change in their community. Absolutely.

I don't know if your father is still alive, but how does he feel or would he have felt about you creating this work of fiction based on the history that he was so passionate about? My father is no longer alive, but when I was writing and researching, he was. And so we had wonderful conversations. It's interesting because I never had those conversations with him when I was a kid. But I had the chance just a few weeks before he passed away to have those conversations with him. And I think he was proud.

Fabienne Joseph-Fa, her novel is Kingdom of No Tomorrow. Thank you so much for talking with us. Thank you, Ari. Thank you.

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