Leisha Hailey and Kate Moennig reflect on 'The L Word' in memoir 'So Gay For You'
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Hey, it's Empire's Book of the Day. I'm Andrew Limbaugh. There were a batch of TV shows in the early 2000s that had to do two things. One, be entertaining. And also, two, introduce queer culture to a sheltered, closeted America. I'm talking about Will & Grace, Queer as Folk, Queer for the Straight Guy.

Still, there weren't many shows specifically focused on queer women. But then came The L Word on Showtime. That show was an important cultural phenomenon, and you can see its fingerprints all over television today. Leisha Haley and Kate Minnig were two stars of The L Word, and they've got a new memoir out about their time on the show, titled So Gay For You. And they spoke to NPR's Juana Summers about not just what they loved about the show, but also some of their regrets. That's ahead.

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By the early 2000s, only a handful of queer female characters had ever been featured on television. So just imagine the buzz when The L Word premiered in 2004. Okay. Melanie slept with Heather. Okay. Heather slept with Brooke. Heather slept with Brooke? Yes. Brooke slept with Nina. And I slept with Nina. See that? Oh, yeah. So four. One, two, three.

That is how many people it takes to link you to me. Over six seasons in a 2019 reboot, The L Word explored lesbian identity, friendship, and sex with nuance, humor, and a whole bunch of drama. Leisha Haley and Kate Menig starred in The L Word as Alice and Shane, and they are the authors of a new memoir. It's called So Gay For You, Friendship, Found Family, and the show that started it all. Leisha, Kate, welcome to All Things Considered.

Oh, goodness. Thank you for having us. Thank you so much for having us. We're thrilled to be here. I got to just start off by saying that you have lit up several of my group chats who are just so excited to have this conversation. I mean, The L Word for so many of us was a show that we found community around, we found family around, and...

Even so many years removed, that seems to be the case now. What do you think it is about the L word that has been so enduring for so many people? Isn't that wild? It's still connecting. And it still means something to us to talk about, right? Yeah. Maybe it's because nothing has ever filled its place. And you'd think it would after all this time, but nothing had. It also was about the friendships. Yeah. And I think that's surprising.

Surprised a lot of people, like a lot of straight people watch the show as well, because that's what they identified with. Also, it was the first. Yeah. You can't beat the first of anything. And that certainly might add to it.

I want to start by talking a little bit about your origin story. You guys met in the casting process for the show. You were both up for the same part to play the character Shane, which Kate ended up portraying. And there's this sort of immediate magnetism between the two of you that you describe in the book. I'll let you pick up the story from here. Well, that is a true story. We were both testing. It was actually the last phase of the audition process. We were the only two.

And it's shocking to people, including myself, that I was up for that part. I can't imagine it being played by anyone but Kate. Maybe in a Black Mirror episode, it's going to switch where you can. And then maybe I play a version of Alice. Oh, never thought of that. Yeah.

It took a long time before there was another show quite like this. And I wonder if you feel like when you look at our films, our media, or even our music to some degree, if there's a more well-rounded representation of queer people. I felt like it was quite one note in the pre-L Word era, at least in my opinion. I mean, I think like if you think of just like a power lesbian, let's just talk about that for a second. It was very corporate. It was career driven, like the suits and it just felt like

I'm not going to say one note, but it was like, oh, a woman who walks in and knows what she wants. And now I feel like the idea of a power lesbian would be more inclusive and more fluid. I feel like queer characters are more well-rounded. I just don't think we have reached the goal yet where we have enough queer characters on television. So we're always left with these crumbs and we're supposed to be so happy every time we see one. And of course we are, but I just think there's so much work to be done.

One thing the show did back then was break cliches. And I can speak for Shane as an example. No one really understood what that character was until she landed on screen and then it started to make sense. And I think that's because she's an example of breaking a cliche.

Like if you're boyish or if you sort of lean more masculine, less feminine, you're considered butch. It's like, well, that's not necessarily true. It was very binary. It was binary. And now I think there's more of like this beautiful arch of where you can fall in that.

I mean, I do have to ask you, do you think you'd ever revisit those characters again? I know, of course, there was the Generation Q reboot, but will we ever see an Alice or a Shane? Well, we never say never, but we don't own the brand or the IP or we have no say in it. Who knows? I mean, we had a reboot one time. Maybe in 20 years they're going to want to do L Word hospice care. You never know.

When I started reading the book, I took the opportunity to rewatch some of the episodes of the show, which I've done from time to time over the years. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. And there's so much in it that I love, but there are also some other parts that don't stand the test of time as well. And, Leisha, you wrote about the way that the show mirrored the cultural attitudes at the time towards bisexuality and the way that the show understood the gender spectrum was also pretty fraught. Yeah.

And you've said that some scenes and the way that trans and non-binary people were treated fill you with shame. Can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah. I mean, I don't take responsibility for the lines I had to say or some of the scenes we all had to act because I would say all of us said things that were offensive. But I don't like that I was a part of that. I can't change where we were at the time. The writers were only using the language they had at the time. Mm-hmm.

I do think, however, we were the first show to put those kinds of people on screen. So I'm both proud and ashamed at the same time. It depends which scene we're talking about. I know there were times where even Shane and Alice would completely be dismissive to Max, the character, as though he didn't exist or what he was trying to say didn't matter. It's that sort of...

ghosting in a way of someone's identity. I want to circle back to where we started, which is talking about your friendship. I know that the two of you also have a podcast that is rooted in your friendship. It's called Pants with Kate and Leisha. Can you just tell us about the name? Well, Pants came from Mia Kirshner, who played Jenny, because Leisha and I were

like two glue sticks stuck together. And one day Mia saw us and she had a light bulb go off and she said, oh, look, it's pants. And we said, what does that mean? She's like, you're like a pair of pants. You can't have one leg without the other. And we thought initially it was an insult. And then when we actually had the image in our head, we're like, actually, no, that makes sense. Cut to 15, 20 years later and this podcast idea came to us and we had to come up with a name.

And Leisha goes, remember pants? I was like, that's it. That's the answer. Just listening to the two of you talk about your friendship, I love that there's this magic between the two of you, but you have made it so clear that it's not always some sort of fairy tale and that maintaining a decades-long friendship takes work. I wonder if you could just tell us maybe one thing from each of you. What's the key to making it work for all these years?

I use the word consistency a lot because I think without it, things can die on the vine, especially when it's a friendship. And especially as you get older and you have different responsibilities than you did when you were in your 20s. I think also I've learned to be more vulnerable with Kate. We put so much concentration on, you know, significant others or home life. But sometimes friendships take more work. And also friendships are the perfect medicine.

Sometimes it's just, it is like there are times where like sometimes I just, maybe it's just I'm having a day, whatever kind of day that is. And nothing's really scratching that itch. And then you and I will hop on the phone and it's the perfect antidote. And now I move on. We have been speaking with Alicia Haley and Kate Menig, the authors of the memoir. So gay for you. Thanks to both of you. Thank you for having us. Girls in tight dress.

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