Coming Together As A United Front
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Welcome to the shit show. Things are going to get weird. It's your fave villain, Kale Lowry. And you're listening to Barely Famous. Barely Famous.

Welcome back to another episode of Barely Famous Podcast. We have a guest that you guys know and love, Javi Marroquin.

Welcome to Barely Famous again. Happy to have you. Before we get to the reason why you came on Barely Famous today, I want to start at the beginning with our story and then also how, you know, Lauren got involved, how Elijah is, you know, here turning points in our dynamic. And then we'll get into, you know, I hate to call it an announcement because I don't think that's what it is, but the reason you're here. So,

And also before we get attacked for us not working and having real jobs, for those of the listeners who don't know, you've been in the military for 13 years? 12. 12 years. So you joined in what year? 2012, December of 2012. Okay. And then from there, you got stationed in Delaware. Yep.

And that's how we ended up here in Delaware. And you don't want to get out. I do not. It's going to be a full career and 20 years. Yeah, I've worked too hard. And I got eight years left until my retirement. So I think I've made it far enough where I kind of have to ride it out. Yeah, no, for sure. And I understand that. But there are people who think that you don't work. Yeah, there's people that don't even know I'm still in the military.

Do you react to comments like that or do you just kind of let it roll off? No, I don't care. Do people in the military react to you having been on TV? My friends, I mean, they crack jokes here and there, but they don't. I mean, it's been so far, I don't even know. Because I'm in a whole new career than when I started, when I first went. And then you being in Delaware for as long as we have...

is sort of unheard of or what do you, because I think what the stigma is or what people know about the military is that a lot of people move all the time and it's usually like a two year rotation, right? Like you're stationed somewhere for two years, you move so on and so forth. Yeah. Um, my first six years were active duty and then I got out cause I didn't want to move.

In that time, I opened up the gym and then I went into the reserve side of the house. And then a guy that came to my gym, he offered me a job back in active duty. And he was like, "I can put you back, you can stay here in Delaware." So I was like, "Okay, can't pass that up." And then since then, from year six to 12 now, I've exhausted all my positions in Delaware that I could take and stay here. - And what's the difference between active duty and reserves?

Active duty was full-time and reserve is part-time essentially. So you went from full-time to part-time to full-time again? Yes, exactly. But you've worked pretty much every job you possibly can in Delaware. So now what did they do? They came to you and they were like...

it's time for you to go or how does that what does that look like yeah they would have they would have said hey it's time if you want to stay in this so i'm recruiting now so if you want to stay in recruiting stay in this job you need to grow and you need to you can't do the same basically we're all we're all capped out so once you're in this job you're capped out at three years that's when i was started in dover i was like okay well can i take the newark spot newark delaware for those who don't know they gave

They gave me Newark and now I'm capped out here. So there's no other place, no other job I can kind of jump to. So even if a recruiter does a good job in the area they're at, they still have to move? Yes. Why? Because if you're doing a good job in this area, they want to see you grow. Okay, well, go do it over here. Okay.

So what was actually got we talked, I think, last year at this point, or I guess it would have been the year before. I don't really remember. And we talked and you were like, hey, like, I think it's about to be that time where we're going to have to move. Yeah. And I had said that depending on where you went, that I would attempt to try to go as well, because I couldn't picture a life for Lincoln anymore.

any other way than 50-50. So at that time, I didn't know if I thought it was real or if it was like, oh, you guys have decided that you want to move. I didn't really know what that looked like. And then you and I didn't talk about it again for a long time. So I just sort of put it in the back of my mind and never thought about it again. So fast forward to, you know, you have two more kids, you're with Lauren and 2024. I mean, for people who have watched Teen Mom, they know that the dynamics of

between myself and Javi and myself and Lauren and Javi have been a little rocky, I would say. And, you know, fast forward to 2024, we go to Spain for the kids to play soccer. And I felt like that was a little bit of a turning point for the relationship as parents. Would you agree with that? Yeah. I mean, we were in a situation where we were just kind of

forced to spend more time than we either one of us thought we were going to I mean I didn't think you know you and your hotel situation ended up being the way it did and then you ended up in the same hotel so we were kind of stuck in the same place so we were gonna you know make the best of it for the kids sake I mean we traveled 10 hours to Madrid we're not gonna make it crap yeah I mean I think that was the first time that

Lauren and I were able to be in the same place at the same time and have a conversation and be there for the kids without any

outside opinions, conversations, anything like that. And then you got to spend time maybe unintentionally with Elijah, which actually worked out. I feel like to benefit the kids, I got really sick. I had strep throat and you Lauren and Elijah took the kids outside to go play soccer. And I saw y'all from my hotel room. Like I looked down at the field and you guys were all playing. And I thought that was really cool because it's,

I guess I just never... I didn't know what to expect for Spain in general. And then I also didn't know what to expect with everyone in such close proximity. So I think it really ended up being pretty cool. Right? Like you and Elijah got along. Yeah, for sure. I mean, we definitely got along. I mean, hey, let's make the best of this and let's figure this out. And it worked in Madrid. It worked in Madrid. I think you spent more time with Elijah than I did. Yeah. How do you feel now? Good. I mean...

Lincoln's with you guys half the time, so it was nice to spend some quality time and see who this man is around Lincoln. And how did you feel about Lorne and I getting along in Spain? It was nice. I mean, it was... It was fine. I mean, like I said, I'm glad everyone was able to put all the difference. There's a lot of... There was a lot throughout the years that everyone went through. So it was...

I mean, for that trip, it was good that we were all able to just put it behind us and, "Hey, we're here. Let's cheer on the kids. Let's all go. Let's figure this out." Right. So it was good. So how do you feel today about it? A little mixed, if I'm going to be honest with you. Okay. Tell me why. It's hard, right? Because I thought we were at a place where we were good in Madrid.

And then, you know, we come home and, you know, things were said and I had to send you an email the week after. So for us, it was like, damn, we just had this good week. We thought we were turning a leaf. And here we are back to where we knew where we were. Yeah. So that's why for me, it's just kind of, I want to make sure that boundary line is, not that we've crossed it for years, right? I think we figured out that boundary line, but I want to make sure the civil, I don't know how to put it into words, the civilness or the,

Us being able to say hello to each other is strictly for Lincoln. Mm-hmm. At that point.

So I don't know how to say it in words, but that's how I feel. It was just like, damn, we were here, come back home, and it's back to what we thought it was. So when we got back from Spain, for anyone who's listening and doesn't know, I was having a conversation and I had said something on the podcast. I also thought that I was speaking so vaguely that I didn't think that people would know what I was talking about. And so in some ways for me to say it in the first place, I thought, okay, I'm not going

nobody will know. I literally, and I'm not ashamed to admit that I literally left you a voicemail sobbing because I was so upset over it. And I don't know if Lauren ever heard it or if y'all ever listened to it, but like, I was truly sobbing, so upset beside myself. And I remember calling the producers of the show and I was like, you know, we made so much progress. Like, how could I let this happen? So I still stand by that. Like I, to this day, I mean, Lauren's here, you're here and I'm sorry. Like I'm telling you to your face because I just,

I was kicking myself for it because I shouldn't, it's hard because when people tell me to get a real job and they, you know, they say this, that, and the third, I'm like, well, I have been paid to talk about my life for 15 years now. And so that adds a very complicated layer for me and I have to tread lightly. And so in order to engage in conversations on my podcast, whether it be with Lindsay or Becky or whoever, it is very hard for me. So I try to make them vague and then

I forget that people that are in my life and in the situation know that it's about them. Does that make sense? So I'm not justifying it by any means. I'm just trying to explain for the listeners or anyone to understand where hobby is coming from, because I do think that it's fair for you to have those feelings is that, you know, we made progress and I was the reason why.

we took a step back from that progress and It I would I would agree with you and you say it's a little don't you say it was complicated or mixed emotions? Yeah, I just feel like I always have to have my guard up like I feel like Where when like a Madrid, okay, we put it down. Hey, let's have a good time We went to the amusement park together and hey if Lex wants to stay, you know stuff like that So I feel like when we let our guard down or me I'll speak for me specifically when I let my guard down and it's like damn

We're here. And since you brought that up, I don't want to cut you off. So I'm trying to think of my thoughts as you come. So it's like in that instance where you're saying what you did, it's like you were saying you're trying to say it vaguely so that you didn't think other people would understand it. But I know who you're talking about. So I know it's me. So even if other people don't know what you're talking about, I do. So for me, it's like, damn, if we're taking steps forward, can I make an example? So it makes all make sense. For example, for me, I feel like that's a running joke that I hear constantly.

from you, from your friends. So I get it. You got a job and it's funny to you. But for me, that caused a lot of pain between us. It caused a lot of pain in my life, my personal life, with my family. So for me to constantly hear jokes coming from you, I just feel like it's disrespectful for me. I'm thinking we're all, we might not be coming together, but we're level. So anytime I hear those types of jokes, it's like, damn,

You might not specifically be shooting them at me. No, yeah, they're not. But it just... It sparks outside world of this is still funny or Javi still did that years ago when it's like, that is behind me for, you know... I made all this work to get it behind me. So stuff like that just frustrates me. So that's why coming here, it's uncomfortable. It's just like I took myself out of the TV world for a long time and it just sucks. I think that's fair. I mean, I didn't know the Wawa jokes were like...

I don't ever think of them just in terms of you. I mean, I wrote about, well, this is fucked up. I wrote about Wawa in my first book in 2014 about something that occurred there. And then I also talked to my podcast about something that happened with Wawa. So like, for me, it's more than that. It's just like, just the fact that people associate me with Wawa, it's never directed at you. Like it never has been, at least on my end.

you'll be glad to know that Wawa is out officially and Royal Farms is in. So we are, we are very much going to be downplaying all the Wawa stuff. So that's out. So if that's any consolation to you, and I don't want to disrespect you in any way, and I want this to be, especially with the things that are about to happen, I definitely want to

respect you and respect that. So now that I know that I'm not going to participate in wawa jokes and you have my word on that. And so does Lauren. And so does everyone in this room. So, you know, moving forward, I won't do that. All right, you guys who doesn't love good things in life, right? Even though I enjoy a little luxury, it doesn't mean that I can always afford it until I discovered quince. Quince is my go-to for luxury essentials at affordable prices. And quince offers a wide range of high quality items at prices within reach.

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Moving on to that, I have some questions that I...

you know, those like crazy 3am your mind is racing kind of questions. Aside from Spain and the Wawa conversation, right. And feeling mixed emotions, right. How do you think that

we have done both you and me, but then also Lauren and Elijah have done collectively as co-parents for the last year or two. Yeah. Co-parents specifically. I think it's been great. I mean, I think it's, I think Madrid, I think it was important. Actually, I think it was important. You saw the way Lauren was with,

just the kids in general and then vice versa. It was important for me to see how Elijah would. I mean, I'd never heard him say more than two words prior to Madrid. So to be in Madrid, no offense, but like he's just a quiet guy. So like when we're in Madrid and, you know, being able to play soccer, I didn't even know he knew how to play sports. Not that he's not athletic, but, you know, it was cool to be in that environment where I know Lincoln is okay on the other side. I mean, because it was always, hey, I have to trust whoever you bring into his life that

you're making the right decision and same thing for me. So to be able to see that firsthand, I think that's where it was good for everybody to see everyone interacting with other kids. So I think co-parenting wise is fine. If I need something for Lincoln, hit you up or hit Elijah and Elijah will bring it. And there's no awkwardness. I don't think there's no, and vice versa. I don't think you've needed anything from Lauren, but I'm sure if you did, I don't know, but I'm sure if you did, I'm sure it would be fine. Yeah. I mean, I, it felt good knowing that I didn't have anything to worry about.

And not that I really ever did. I think it was always like we were really young when you and I were married and divorced. We were very young. And I think that we, you and I don't get a lot of grace for that. Like, I think that people still want to hold our past against us. And, you know, people want to remember us how we used to be and not now. And I think that...

you know, seeing it all firsthand, you and Lauren together with the kids and, you know, you guys have welcomed Lux in, you know, to go to the amusement park and stuff or stay at the amusement park. It was really nice for me because at one point you texted in a group chat and was like... Oh God, what'd I say? What are you about to say? You said...

No, it was with Elijah. And you said something along the lines of, I didn't know Elijah could run like that or something or play soccer like that. I think it surprised you. And so it was nice that... Because I was sick, so I couldn't even be down there. Oh, in Madrid. Oh, yeah, sorry. Just to be clear, we're talking about Spain. And so you said you didn't know Elijah could play like that. And I don't know, it felt good for me too because our dynamic is so different than...

you know, what our dynamic used to be. And so Elijah getting involved with the kids that way and playing out on the soccer field with you guys, I think Lauren was out there. It was nice for me too, because he wants to be a part of the crew. I think, you know, with, with being a sports parent, but because our dynamic is different with the babies and things like that, he doesn't get to go to all the stuff. And so it was nice for me to see him interact with you and Lauren and the kids. So I say all that to say that I think that

Spain really opened my eyes and I think that was a turning point for me and how I felt, you know about Lauren and you know making sure that Lincoln's best interest is always Top of mind. I think prior to Madrid we were struggling with Lincoln because he thought we were all four of us were always clashing Yeah

And so he got away with or tried to get away with a couple of things, doing things differently here, coming to our house and saying and doing things differently so that me and you would clash and be like, well, he's saying this, he's saying this over here. So, OK, so, you know, so then I think Madrid helped that and being OK, well, four of them are getting along. So.

I don't know if I'm getting along, but all four of them are, have my best interest. So we're trying to get Lincoln. In my experience with co-parenting, with Joe, with you, with Chris, I definitely, and I don't want to speak for all kids. I just want to speak for like my situations. I have noticed that when you and I are on the outs, Lincoln knows. We don't have to say anything. He doesn't have to hear anything, but he knows. Same for Isaac. When Joe and I aren't getting along, Isaac knows. And I think that

human nature, whether the child knows they're doing it or not, subconsciously will pit them against each other to see what they can get away with. And I think that's a common theme from what I've read online too. It is common. It's not uncommon for kids to do that, but I definitely think that you and I have

done a pretty good job tackling that once we see it starting to bubble up. And I think for the, since Spain, I've seen a change in Lincoln, like not worried. Um, he did know that I was coming to record with you today. And he's like, am I in trouble? Cause he, he was like, you guys get together when I'm in trouble. And I'm like, no, we're always going to be united for you, but it's nothing you have to worry about. You're not in trouble. And he was like, oh, okay. So he, you know, he feels better. But, um, how do you feel about,

I mean, I kind of already asked you, but how do you feel today about Elijah, towards Elijah? Good. I mean, with what's going to go down, I mean, I feel like a bigger layer of trust has to be there. And I genuinely, you know, I'm at peace and I'm okay knowing that Lincoln has him and he's going to be okay. Right. Okay. I think that's fair. Where do you think we could improve as co-parents?

Co-parents, specifically. Well, we're only co-parents, right? Yeah, no, I just mean like if we could just avoid the talking on, you know, the jokes and stuff like that, I think co-parenting is an issue. Jokes on the podcast or jokes in life? No, no, no, on the podcast. Just like about like past stuff. No, no, no, yeah, we don't joke. Like, no, no, no, I just mean like the past because it's hard for me. I tell you, like...

Well, I don't tell you all the time, but like when I hear those jokes, it's hard for me to then, okay, I have to go. So we have to go be nice at basketball or soccer. You know, the kids played soccer on the same team this year. So it was just like, you know, it was just hard for me. So Eli and Lex are on the same, well, they played on the same team and I was coaching them. So, so yeah, it was just, yeah. Are you aware of how much Lux looks up to you? Like, do you know? Even after the soccer, Lauren said I was mean.

As long as I'm a mean coach. Did he tell you? No, I've never heard that. But, I mean, he looks up to you a lot. So I was a little nervous about Lux playing for you because I've only ever seen you coach Lincoln. And Eli and Lux love each other. Like, they get along. They always have. So even when things were rocky, it would be, like, a little bit awkward at, like, games and stuff because they would be playing and none of us wanted to talk to each other. And so it was... And I don't know if Spain was the reason, but I felt...

more comfortable with um you know Lux being on the same team as Eli and you know playing for you and now they're on another team um playing together and I feel I feel pretty good about it and I think that we can you know keep those boundaries in place while they get to be kids on the same soccer team yeah do you feel the same yeah yeah I mean the past team it kind of took me back to like the MLT days where like everything was just kind of clashed and it was like

One, I realized coaching that team, I do not like coaching at all. Why? Too much stress, too much the high expectations I've been told. And sometimes my voice, the way I come across the field, like it's just very, I just think I'm loud and I'm positive, but I've been told it doesn't come off that way. I don't know.

So it's just, you know, I never want to make a kid feel bad, but it's just, I have, maybe I'm just, I don't know, high standards. I don't know. I'm not doing it anymore. I'm done. I'm done coaching. You're not even going to coach Eli? No. Okay. I mean, maybe it's for the best. You guys know what's in the best interest of Eli, so I won't even go there. Lauren won't let me anyway. Maybe Lauren should coach. Yeah. That could be good. She feels what I feel. That all being said, you're...

Your time in Delaware has come to an end. And so you're moving out of Delaware this summer. Yeah. What does that look like for you? And what was the decision making process there? Like, how did you decide where you're going, when you're going, et cetera? How does it look like for me in like a professional standpoint? Yeah. So you're going to continue recruiting, I'm assuming. Okay. Yeah. Basically what happens was we already kind of touched on it. My time was coming up. So it was like, okay, well, where can I go? What are my options? So,

So Virginia came up, and after talking about it with Lauren, we felt like that was probably best-case scenario. They didn't know what was going to happen with Lincoln. We thought worst-case scenario were at least driving distance. We don't have to jump on a plane or anything like that.

So it was, hey, take Virginia or when your time does come up, when your three-year mark hits, you're going to get whatever is on the table. So it could have been like Minot, North Dakota. Yeah, it could have been California, whatever was on the table at that time. So I wouldn't have, I would have to pick out of whatever's on there. Knowing that there could be an even closer base at that time. Like you picked Virginia, but like you didn't want to risk...

whether it was a closer one or one that's even further away, right? Like if say when your third, when your three years came up, you could have been like, Oh, you're going to be closer because so how it works is positions come out every month. So you see who's applying, you see who gets those positions. So the Maryland and New Jersey's just got there. So I knew they had three years there at least at a minimum before those positions would open up again. So I was like, okay, well that's taken me off the board for those. Um,

So what's left? And then it was like, well, Virginia's coming up. And I was like, okay, well, that's the next closest. That's probably the best case scenario. So I didn't want to take that risk of waiting to the end of either deciding, hey, we're moving to wherever or I got to get out. And I don't think getting out was an option for me. Was this decision...

Influenced at all by creating more distance between you and me or Elijah and myself and you and Lauren. No, this is strictly professional work wise. I mean, the military has done so many good things for all of us. I mean, it pays for Lincoln's health insurance. It'll pay for some of the school when he gets there. I've been in for 12 years. I've worked too hard to get to where I'm at as far as rank and all that stuff where I'm sitting at the table.

I'm really good at it. No, for sure. And I don't want to dismiss that you're good at your job. I just didn't know if the thought process behind leaving earlier than, you know, your three year mark was, okay, this would create distance between, between the families basically. No, the thought process, decision-making was strictly, Hey, I need to take my career into my own hands before they tell me,

this is all you got left. Right, because I mean, you had a plane ride in there. I mean, that would create a whole new situation if you would have went. That would have been way different than what we came to. A plane ride would have just, yeah, that would have... Exacerbated any pain that we're already going through. Yeah, that would have been tough. So when you let me know that you were going to Virginia, we sort of, I don't want to say went at it because I don't think we argued about it, but it was definitely... No, we went at it. Did we? We went at it. Okay. Okay.

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You can have them too. And you can have it all at two for $6. Like a Filet-O-Fish, Big Mac, 10 piece McNuggets or large fries. Limited time only price and participation may vary. Cannot be combined with any other offer. Single item at regular price. You don't think so? I don't think it could have gone any other way. Like I don't think that there, yes, we went at it, but I don't think that there was going to be an easier conversation. Like there was no way to make it any easier.

So we disagreed, I think, on several occasions about what was going to happen. And so... So like when I brought it to you, obviously the initial emotions and all that kicking in, everyone's angry. Okay, let's let it dust off. And then how'd you feel? Or what was your mind? What did you think? Because I told you basically I wanted Lincoln. I think I told you I wanted Lincoln for the school year. Or I might have not said that, but I told you I thought Lincoln was...

Not better because this is a shitty situation. It's not like you have two shitty parents and it's a no brainer, right? He deserves to be with this parent more than this parent, right? I feel like it was down the middle. I simply just took it as I thought my connection with Lincoln was a little bit more crucial at the age he's at to be with me.

I don't want to say more important. It was more crucial to be with me now for the next three years or whatever than it was to stay. So that was my standpoint and that's how I was looking at it when I approached you. How'd you feel? I also felt that way. I felt like given his age, because we started having this conversation when he was 10. So my thought process was...

Okay, this will be an entirely different conversation at 10 and 13. So my thought was, okay, if he goes, he gets stationed somewhere, Lincoln stays with me. And at 13, we would basically reevaluate the situation. And if he said, I want to go live with my dad, I just think it would be a different conversation.

So that's sort of where we basically were thinking the same thing, in my opinion. And so and I think that both of us are valid in our feelings. I think both of our points are valid. I think that and I agree with you that, I mean, Lincoln has only ever known 5050. This has always been and if you ever wanted a week on my time, I'd give it to you and vice versa. So we've always worked together in that way. And so when you're going to court for relocation, and you have two parents that are

always doing what's in the best interest of their children. And we don't really... Co-parenting for us, I feel like... I don't want to say it's been easy because it hasn't been easy, but we always put Lincoln first. So when you have two parents that are both doing their very best...

It's so hard. And I just, I couldn't imagine putting that in a judge's hands. Like I couldn't. So when we, we were in Disney, Elijah and I took the kids to Disney and when we had our, I guess it was like a case review or like a pre-trial you and me with the judge. And the judge was just like, he was brutal. He was, I was very discouraged after that call. I'm not going to lie. It was very discouraged. Well, after that call, I was like, I think I told Lauren, I was like, this, this sucks. I'm not going to get nothing. This judge is like,

What is it? Well, me and you butted heads because you felt, and correct me if I'm wrong, that Lincoln shouldn't have been involved. You didn't want me to tell him or you didn't want him to know, something like that. I did not want you to tell him when you told him.

And I thought that we were on the same page about telling him at the same, like we were going to be together when we told him. So when you told it, you were like, you emailed me and you were like, I'm telling him. I was really upset by that. Um,

Because we are so good, I just felt like if we were united about it, whatever that looked like, it would have just set a better example. Because I think at that point he thought that we were kind of going against each other and I didn't know if he knew how to feel about it. And I didn't want him to feel like, oh, when I'm at my dad's, I want to tell my dad. I think he wants to hear that I want to go with him. But then when I'm at my mom's, I think she wants to hear that I want to stay with her. And so that's what I was afraid of.

I'll be honest with you. I think that is what set the judge off that you told him. Fair. Well, yeah, that's what he said. But where I was coming from with that was my path of moving forward with custody was going to be based off of his answer, right? And so if he would have said...

It was either school year or summer because let's get that. I think both of our attorneys said, Hey, this is, this is no other way to do it. This is the baseline. So one parent is going to get school. One parent's going to get summer. We'll figure out the holidays. So it was okay. That's at a minimum. So it was like, okay, link, this is the situation. I wasn't, if, if I'm moving, it's, this is, I'm moving. Um,

How do you feel about it? This is a school year. Who do you where do you want to go? Because based off of his answer was going to be my driving factor of, hey, is this even a fight I'm going to put up? Or if he says, hey, I want to stay with my mom. OK, well, then what am I fighting for? If you don't want to come with me, that's how I took. So if he would have said that, then I don't need it. Why am I going to spend thousand dollars on an attorney and put this in the judge's hand? So for me, when he was like, no, I want to go with you.

And it's hard, I get it. He's telling you one thing, he wants to stay with you. He's telling us he wants to go with us. And I can only imagine, I can't imagine the emotions and feelings that an 11 year old is going through. So for him to say, "Hey, I want to go with you." I was like, "Okay, well I'm going to do everything I can." It's just a pain that is, this is a feeling that is a shitty feeling for everybody. And it sucks because he like, he cries with me and he cries with you. It was the same, right? So he would go to sleep.

and i'm saying hey are you okay you know and he'll just start crying and i want to go with you and i know i know i'm doing you know let me handle that i'm doing everything i can where you just got to let it ride out and so that was my driving force as to why i thought

I needed to tell Lincoln. So, and then when we get to the, with the judge, it was, he was like, Oh, well, why does, uh, why does he even tell him or something like that? I'm like, I just don't get it. I don't understand it. And my, my attorney, no, I, how can I, how can you not, like, it's not Lux or Creed's age, right? I get that. If they're that little, but Lincoln's 11 or 10 at the time, whatever he was, how can you not get his opinion on it? I, I,

Didn't want to get his opinion on it at his age, even 11, because I do think that because he was breaking down to me, you know, and not to put all of Lincoln's business out there, but he was breaking down to me.

About wanting to stay. And then towards closer to now, not right now, but closer to now, I think he's torn because we're back to being okay. You and I are getting along. We're co-parenting. Everyone's copacetic. So he's torn with what do you mean? I think that closer to now, because we haven't talked about it in a long time, I think that he's...

It maybe hasn't sunk in for him. Like he doesn't realize what's about to happen. But I, my apprehension about telling him at his age was that it was going to weigh in on him the way that it did. Right. Like it played out exactly how I thought it would.

Which was that he was going to cry to you and also cry to me about staying and leaving. He's never had to make a choice, right? Like he's never had to choose between parents. And that was sort of, I think what the judge was getting at was like, you're, we're putting adult decisions on him. So young, right? Like it wasn't like asking a 13 year old who's about to go to high school. It was asking, you know, a fourth, fifth grader, how, how,

what they want. And I just think at that point, maybe we could have gone to him and say, hey, this is what we're doing and not really given him the choice. Because if he feels like the choice is up to him, he knows that he's going to disappoint one of us by not saying what one of us wants to hear. Does that make sense? Am I making sense? But correct me if I'm wrong, we couldn't get with him together because we didn't agree on what each other wanted. I can't remember. I thought we argued email. Yeah.

Yeah, well, I don't because I remember we couldn't tell them together because we weren't agreeing on something. I don't remember exactly. I think it was that I think it was like, Oh, yeah, I think you you didn't want to tell him and I did. I said, Well, I'm going to tell him he's my son. You know, I think that might have been it. Yeah.

So I was very discouraged after that the judge came in and he was hot and he was, I don't think he was anti-military, but he was just like, oh well, he's going to move. And I felt very discouraged. I do think that if it went to trial, it would have been a lot harder for the judge to decide once he sees, okay, both of these parents are perfectly fine. They're perfectly capable. They're financially sound. They're emotionally there. They're physically, you know what I mean? I think that it would have been a very hard decision for him to make. So I think

And I don't want to speak for the judge because I don't know him, but being that you were the one to move and it's sort of the closest option, I think...

If I had to guess, maybe that's why he was thinking that way. Like, okay, you're moving. It's close. It's within driving distance. We can make this work. Yeah, well, I thought I was losing the battle. And not to put it in that tense, but I thought when we met at mediation, I felt kind of backed in a corner, honestly. I mean, honestly, I felt like I was at a corner. I remember I called Lauren crying, saying this, I have to take it.

If it goes to a judge, I'm going to lose. If it goes to a judge, it's going to be worse. And we can get into the details of that. We don't fast forward. But I thought, I felt like I was in a corner by the time we met in that mediation room. How do you feel now? Conflicted. Part of me doesn't understand. So we agreed in one year, whatever Lincoln says, that's kind of right. So it was like, how does one year make that much of a difference that that's what you fought for? I think it's your...

Does that make sense? Well, for me, yeah, I think it makes sense. I understand what you're saying. But I think for me, it's you guys have never lived there. Don't know if you're going to like it. If there is a possibility for you to leave at any point after you get there and you're like, we hate it here. What if you guys decide that you're going to come back? That's like my, not that I wish on your downfall. And Lauren, please don't take it that way. I'm talking to both of you. It's like,

I don't wish on your downfall, but like in a perfect world, I want Lincoln to have 50-50 until he graduates high school, right? Like that for me, it's like, okay, what if you guys go and you hate it? I mean, I'm never going to say that to Lincoln, but...

And second to that is, I do think it's a different conversation when he's a little bit older. That is sort of where I'm at. And we talked about how he's in the same school this year and he'll be in the same school next year. At the point that he's done with school in sixth grade and transitioning anyway, I think it makes more sense. And I also think that I do understand that a father's presence in a boy's life or a young man's life is very important. But I also think that there is a very...

small window for some mother son relationships to sort of develop a little bit. And so I, my hope is that I will have, you know, if he decides at the end of next year that he wants to go with you, I, I will feel confident in our insecure, that our relationship is secure no matter what. And so then when he leaves to go with you, like it's not going to change anything between us. And so I think that one extra year, um,

for me and him will be beneficial to not just me, but to him. And I know that you guys have your bond and you guys bond over sports. And, you know, I know Lauren's into sports and things like that. And so I just think the transition period in everyone's lives a year from now makes more sense.

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Yeah, I mean, I struggle. Part of my argument before we even went to mediation was I struggle with

I told you your career. So like the way the custody is written out here is you'll have them school year. I don't know if you want to say talk details, but you'll have, you'll have them school year. I'll have them summer and then all the holidays and three days in between. So it was like, okay, you're going to be the primary, but just like I'm putting my career, you know, this is what I got to do for my career. Same as you, right? You're busy, you know, your network and everything's blowing up, which is great.

But for you to want that bond, how are you gonna do that? At the point that I knew that you were moving and I'm not gonna have 50/50, I also don't have 50/50 with Lux and Creed either. So...

This sort of opened my eyes to I have to scale back my travel So there's no other option and I try to do it when I you know if there's a three-day weekend And I know that the kids are gonna be with you or with Chris or you know, whatever that looks like That's when I try to do my three day. Obviously, it's not always gonna pan out that way But I try to make sure that I'm in and I'm out. I'm not flying. I'm not getting on planes I'm not touring. I'm I canceled all my tour dates for the first six months of the year. I This opened my eyes because I said okay. Well, I

At the end of the day, my relationship with my son comes first and co-parenting with you has to come second in a circumstance like this. So, you know, I say all that to say that we both have to do what we have to do for our careers. And I don't think that either one of us can expect the other one to, you know, just get out of the military or just stop traveling altogether. Right. Because at the end of the day, we have to have these finances in order to be able to put Lincoln first and to be able to come together to do all of this stuff. So, I mean...

I don't want to say that I'm hopeful that you guys aren't going to like it, but I just, maybe there's a chance you'll come back. There's nowhere for me to come back to. That's the problem. There's nowhere for me to come back to. If there was, would you come back? Would you consider it? Recruiting, it's, yeah, I mean, everything's always up for consideration. I mean, hey, we'll give you a strike, you know, E8 if you take Dover or, you know, stuff like that. I don't know.

you know, only my ball. There's a career path for me. And what that looks like, I don't know yet. I just know right now I got to go crush it in Virginia. Right? So I know right now the next step of my career is, hey, we know you're going to go crush it in Virginia. Go crush it in Virginia. That's what we need you to do right now. Okay, so once Virginia's up, what's next? Where do you guys need me? Right? And so that's where I struggle. And honestly, for you, right, and same for me, I got to be okay with it too, is Lincoln's going to come to an age where

Where the custody we have, he's not going to want to go back and forth. Right? So... Can I cut you off right there? Sure. I don't know about that. Because, I mean, even Isaac, who I would...

For a short while there, he wanted to be with me full-time, right? But he flat out told me that even though he wants to be with me full-time, he's never going to not go to his dad's. Like, he doesn't ever want to do that to his dad, right? So, I mean, it's possible that he... Maybe it's not exactly 50-50, but at the point that he's driving and he's able to go back and forth kind of as he sees fit. But I'm seeing it more of like...

Getting older and puberty and girls and friends and like, you know, the custody, damn, every holiday I got to go to Virginia or I got to go back to Delaware when like I got friends here. Like I don't even get to spend the summer with my friends here or I don't get to see vice versa. So he's going to get to an age where we're going to have to come back together and say, hey, and even with the current custody, it might be a lot on him. So, yeah, we did the best we could and gave each other what we thought was best case scenario, but it might be a lot of him to travel in.

And he might say, hey, this is a lot of travel. I mean, you've got to come back together and say, hey, this is putting a toll on them. What would you do if I emailed you guys tomorrow and said, I'm filing to relocate to Virginia? Ugh.

That's almost impossible. I'm just asking. But that's a hypothetical. That's not going to happen. No, I'm saying how would you feel about it? How would you feel if I said, because I feel like there has to be some excitement about just getting away from the situation and not crossing paths ever, right? So how would you feel about that? Would you be okay with it for Lincoln? Or would you be like, oh no, that's too close for comfort? Not even too, but like Virginia's not going to be forever home.

So not only is it impossible for your custody with all the kids you have, why would you follow, you know, you're following me. Why would you do that? For Lincoln. And I told my lawyer this and she was not really thrilled about it, but I was like, I cannot imagine a world without 50-50 for Lincoln. That is where I'm coming from. I already don't have 50-50 with Lux and Creed, right?

Elijah was already stationed where you're going. He was already there. So to me, I was like, okay, well, is it a, is it a far stretch for me to say, okay, well then I, and Chris doesn't live in Delaware. So he's already out of the state. So my thought was, okay, could I make it work where I relocate to Virginia so that Lincoln still, I can't imagine one, my household without him and two, you know, not him not having 50, 50. So that was sort of my thought process. And my attorney was like,

That is not realistic for you. But that's where my mind went for Lincoln because...

why not? That's sort of where I was at. I mean, now I know based on how the judge reacted, it's not going to go well for me either. If I tried to, no matter where it was, Virginia, New Jersey, no matter what, I think the judge would be like, you've lost your mind. But I would be lying to you if I didn't say, well, that absolutely crossed my mind just so that Lincoln could have 50-50. It's not like I have 50-50 with all of them. Do you get what I'm saying? Like where I'm coming from on this? Yeah, yeah. No, I hear you. Yeah. I mean, not having 50-50 with Lincoln is tough and

Talking with Lien about it now, it's like, okay, you know, I asked him, are you okay? How are you feeling? Because the time is getting closer. And, you know, I talked to him and said, listen, nothing's going to change. We're going to do our best. I'm not going to be able to come every weekend and all your stuff, but I'm going to do my best to

I'm still your dad and, you know, we figured it out. So not having to, do you want to talk about what we, how mediation went? How do you think that we went in there? How do you think when you went into mediation? I didn't know what was going to happen. Truly. I didn't know that you felt backed into a corner. I think when we saw all the dates on paper and looking at school year versus summer and holidays and three day weekends, um,

It became so real to me. And I don't think that there was, I don't think it could have gone better, but I also don't, I think it could have been significantly worse. Well, I mean, I thought before we went up to mediation, I, for whatever reason, I was taken under the impression that you were, I was going to get the school year.

And just based off of, you know, things you were saying like, oh, summer camp in Virginia, you know, I'll bring Lex. I was like, okay. Which I'm doing. Well, I was just like, okay, well, for whatever reason, I was getting under the impression that, okay, maybe she's, you know, things cooled off. She's calm and I was going to get to school year and you were going to get to summer. So when I went in there, I thought I had a, you know, a pretty good offer. It was, hey. And you did. Here are all the dates. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Here are all the dates. And you just weren't budging. Neither were you.

I mean, you were just stone cold. You were just arguing back and forth. I was like, damn, I thought this was a good deal. This is a sweet deal. So I was, so then when you weren't budging, I was like, okay, well, it was just, mediation didn't go well for whatever reason. I thought it went well. Yeah. At the end, because I had no choice. But you didn't give me the decision that day. You didn't tell your, you didn't give us a decision that day. You said you were going to go think about it. And so at that point I was like, oh, we're going to trial. Yeah. I mean, I don't know.

I don't know why I got that feeling, man. I just thought there was things you said that I was like, okay, I felt good about it. I was like, okay, maybe we're going to go to mediation and she's going to say, you know, you take the school and I'll take the summer. We'll figure out the holidays in between. Did you even consider it? Honestly? Yeah, I did. But I think my, the deciding factor for this summer versus school year, which is what I was about to say anyways, is that I have 50, 50 summers. If I got summers and you got school year,

Out of the 12 weeks in the summertime, he would only see Lux and Creed six weeks out of the entire year because I don't I give the holidays to Joe and Chris. So spring break, fall break, if there is one and Christmas break, I'll go to Chris and Joe. So I'm not even if I got Lincoln on those weeks, the brothers and his brothers wouldn't be there. So.

me fighting for Lincoln during the school year was so that he could still continue to have that relationship with his brothers for right now. And I think, you know, for the time being, I think it's crucial for him not saying that Eli's not important because he absolutely is. But I know that, you know, Lux and Lincoln have a bond, um,

as well and he's they're closer in age and so if you remove Lincoln from the school year and he was only here in the summer he's only having them he's only going to be around them for six six weeks out of the entire year so that was a point to consider if Lincoln goes with you for the summertime he has the entire summer with Eli and Maisie and I do I do understand the point that like as he gets older and puberty and friends and you know driving and I know that you don't I've tried to bring it up to you before but like that's going to come quick right so to me I was just trying to you know

soak up these last like year, maybe two of that, like of developing our relationship, the security in our relationships, bonding with the brothers, because I do think that there is a very high chance, if not an almost certain chance that he will decide to go with you next year. And so just making sure that everything is,

you know, he has that extra time with his brothers for, you know, one last school year. Yeah. And in a situation like this, it's... Nobody wins. Nobody wins. So me getting the school year is not a win. And I know that you might view it differently, but it's not a win. It's not a win for either of us. And it's not a win for the siblings. And it's not a win for Lincoln. It can go both ways as far as, you know, you wanted him to bond with your side, your kids. And then same thing with him. Eli is all he knows, essentially. He's not only... So Eli is all he knows, right?

sort of wrap my head around where, hey, you're not going to have him for the school year, right? Now he knows, hey, when's Bubba coming home, stuff like that. So my take in mediation was I felt like that was your driving force instead of looking at from where I was coming from of just Lincoln, what is the best case scenario for Lincoln with the parent, right? So I thought I had a strong argument of he needed to be with me

Taking the kids out of it. Although it is it is a factor in it, right? You're gonna play it in it but the majority of it was Which parent is gonna for this first year be the best to help them adapt help them transition into whatever we decided and that's why I went when I went into mediation and you weren't budging I was like well this sucks. This is not how I thought it was gonna go honestly, and that's how that's why I fell in the corner so when I asked you to step out with your attorney or whatever you guys went out and

You know, I was crying. Oh, me too. I went in the bathroom, bawled my eyes out. Yeah, I called Lauren and I said, this is it. I have to take it. If it goes to a judge, I'm going to get half of what I'm getting right now. That's how I felt. I'll get the summer, right? No judge in their right mind is going to

- You gave me every holiday. - But I pretty much did. - And I just thought Lincoln getting out of Delaware was just crucial for these middle school years. There's just, you know, take, I'm excited to grow out of, get out of Delaware. I don't know if you love Delaware that much. - I don't have a choice. We're all here because of you.

So, and, and that's, I think too, like thinking about, and, and not that I am here to speak for Joe and his family or even V and her family, but like, I think us coming to Delaware has spider webbed into something so much bigger that none of us can control. Right. And like, I don't make my day to day decisions off you and Lauren, and I don't make my day to day decisions off of Joe and V and, and vice versa. Like, I don't, I can't expect you guys to make your decisions off of us, but I think that there is something to be said about what is, what we have created. Yeah.

And that is the spider web. So if you pull on the spider web on one side, that entire spider web is, is having a ripple effect, right? Because Joe moved here, his mom moved here, V moved here for Joe, V's sister just moved here. So there is so many layers to this. And I think it's nobody's fault, right? It's just the circumstances of life and the phases of life that we're going through is like, in order to progress in your career, you have to move. But

it sucks because the rest of us don't have the option to relocate. So it's like you get to relocate and you are excited to leave. I would have left a long time ago if it was up to me because my career could soar in Atlanta, Texas, California, New York. Like my career could have flourished, but I don't have a choice. You get the choice of leaving and we don't. So that's sort of where it's tricky because I hear you when you say you want to get Lincoln out of here. But at the same time,

Lincoln doesn't know any different. He was born here. He's been raised here. And so we know different. We do. Not to cut you off. We know life is better out of Delaware. And so like,

You knew whenever we got married that I was joining the military and that was always a possibility. I've just been lucky for 12 years that I've been blessed to be able to stay here. Joe knew that when he was there. So that can't fall on me because eventually it's kind of like breaking generational trauma. Eventually, hey, you understand the career field that I'm in. But I don't think that they ever thought that it was a possibility that we would... Like, say you and I stayed married. I don't think that anyone thought... I mean, your parents moved here, your sister moved here, your brother moved closer. Military is a different story, but...

I honestly don't think that it ever crossed their mind that you could be stationed again somewhere else. But like, I'm just in facts of you saying the ripple, like, Oh, his mom moved here. His sister moved here. That's their own decisions. Right. So like, no, of course, no, no, no. But like, you can't, that's not, I'm not blaming you. I don't want it to come across as like me blaming you. What I'm saying is that you and I know that we both,

would have moved out of Delaware, right? But the circumstances didn't allow it. Now the circumstances have allowed you to move, but the rest of us can't. Like we literally can't. Because I know after talking to the judge when we went to our pretrial, I understand now that I have zero, slim to none chances of being able to move out of Delaware. Yeah. And so that just knowing how much better life would be outside of Delaware, that's what I wanted to give Lincoln.

Right. That's better sports. I complained to you about sports, where we put them. We've tried. We've gone up and down the state trying to find just a good program, just good coaches. And we're driving an hour up north. That didn't work out. We thought it was bad. We try it here. That's not enough for him. Right. So it was just for me. That's how I that was part of my reasoning.

There's nothing in Delaware where he's thriving that he can't get equal to or better, hopefully, in Virginia. But now you have the opportunity for this next year to test it out with Eli. Yeah. Silver linings. In terms of co-parenting, do you think that you, Lauren, myself, and Elijah are solid enough to be doing this? We don't have a choice, but do you think that we're solid enough to do what we need to do for Lincoln over state lines? Yes.

All right, you guys, thank you so much for tuning in to part one. Part two is dropping on Tuesday and I'm super excited for you guys to hear who else is on part two. If you could please respect and give us some grace during this time and also just be kind in the comments, the feedback. We're real people with real feelings. We're trying to come together the best we can for our son and to raise our family peacefully so we could just keep the comments respectful. That would be super great. And we'll see you on Tuesday.

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All right, I may not be as funny as Nikki Glaser. I want to pitch a series of like calendars where men are just crying in a therapist's office or punching a pillow and working out their anger towards their dad. But I do have my moments. I actually have full conversations with the moon. Yes. I try to keep

it pretty balanced on this podcast a little fun dance between comedy therapy self-medicating oh and sorry if you haven't guessed hi i'm caitlin bristow host of off the vine podcast where we like to just keep things loose and keep them raw and keep them real like when we have listeners call in and give confessions and then that glass of wine progressed into me becoming a unicorn for them so

But we do, and I promise you this, try to keep it honest and vulnerable. So jump on the wagon, not off. Grab your favorite bottle of wine, preferably Spade and Sparrows, and join the Vinos. Have yourself a time. The Off the Vine podcast is available wherever you get your podcasts.

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