Dr. Michael Paul Masters - Humans from the Future - PRE-RELEASE

2024/12/18

Greetings from the North, citizens of Earth, welcome. So, I am committing yet another UAP program, although I insist we are not a UFO-centered show. But we had to do this one, because it touches on several areas we've discussed in other shows, like the nature of time, and also the grace as humans from the future.

The idea of UAPs being time travelers has indeed been present in UFO lore for decades, though it remains a minority view within the broader UFO community. This hypothesis has been explored in various works of fiction, such as H.G. Wells' The Time Machine and the TV series Doctor Who. Some researchers have speculated that the alleged Men in Black series

who have been reported in connection with sightings may be time travelers from the future. Some experiencers do relate to have encountered beings who claim to be from the future or to have knowledge of future events. This hypothesis is also tied to the idea of extra-tempestuals, which posits that some UFOs may be piloted by human beings who have mastered time traveling tech in the future.

Proponents often point to certain commonalities among sightings and encounters that could be explained by the presence of time travelers, such as the appearance of UFOs near military installations or nuclear facilities. Some experiencers have reported that the beings they encountered had technology that seemed far beyond our current capabilities, which is interpreted as evidence that they may be from the future.

There are a number of different variations of this hypothesis, with some people speculating that time travelers may be responsible for certain historical events, such as the construction of ancient monuments,

or the origins of certain religions. Others have suggested that time travelers may be involved in a larger cosmic conflict with competing factions from different times or dimensions vying for control of the present or future. And this approach is often tied into larger narratives about government cover-ups and extraterrestrial contact.

There's also those who have hypothesized that time travelers may be using the present as a kind of experimental laboratory, observing and influencing events for their own purposes.

Others propose that time travelers may simply be "time tourists" visiting different times and places to observe historical events. I would definitely be among those given the opportunity. Still others have speculated that time travelers may be from alternate timelines or parallel universes rather than from the future of our timeline.

And of course, there's some researchers who argue that time travel may not be necessary to explain certain aspects of the phenomena, and that some sightings may be explained by advanced tech developed by human civilizations, past, covert, at present, or breakaway, or even by unknown natural phenomena a la Dr. Valet.

Whatever the case, I had to get on an expert of the topic to learn more about this particular angle. And here's some highlights. And especially in more recent human evolution, we have what's called neurocranial globularity, where we have these big round bulbous heads, small faces, our eyes would get bigger in association with the brain increasing in size because of what we call pleiotropic gene mechanism, where

Where the same gene or sets of genes control both the brain and the eyes. So as our brain gets bigger, we'd expect our eyes to get bigger, our faces to continue to shrink to get out of the way of the expanding brain and the expanding eye. So these are all the same characteristics that we see in these grays. I agree. And we will continue to lose hair.

Yeah, absolutely. The pale skin, that's an aspect of what's called the domestication syndrome. We've been self-domesticating for about 30,000 years, and especially after the rise of agriculture about 12,000 years ago. And one of the characteristics is a loss in pigmentation of the skin. And this was pointed out to me by someone

who claimed to have been an intelligence agent not long after my first book came out. But that's also likely what explains how they can do these 10,000 G maneuvers, these instantaneous accelerations, accelerations, is that they're not actually doing that or smash them on the inside of the craft. But it's what we see outside of that reference frame. It looks like they're doing a 10,000 G maneuver, but really it could

be zero or 1G to them. It's just a difference in how time passes in that space-time bubble versus outside of it in global space-time, which is what we're a part of. Yeah, yeah. Now, this is significant because you have Korsarev, for example. He launched, you know, in the Soviet Union, he launched a hyperdimensional physics model, which were based on, yes, rotation, but you have two opposite rotations. That's always significant in this technology.

Yeah, absolutely. You're right. And you find the same reports regarding the so-called Die Glocke, the Nazi bell, which, by the way,

Many think, I mean, in the lore, it was useful. No, if you look at, they call it Project Kronos. One of the most dominant patterns that emerges from people having these contact experiences is a warning about some sort of cataclysm. Is it war? Is it an asteroid? Is it just a shift in consciousness? Nobody knows, but something's coming. I'm going to say something bold. I know what it is, and I'm going to tell you.

I've heard about four or five different things. Yeah, but this is undeniable. But anyway, I'm going to tell you. Where if you go back and meet yourself and give yourself some information in the past and then use that information throughout the future and then go back and give yourself that information in the past again, you create this closed time-like loop. Ah.

And why people think it's a paradox is because there's no actual creator of that information. And I use the Roswell crash as an example. If that was a time machine and we're reverse engineering this craft that crashed, not just in Roswell, but likely 10 or 15 other places, we didn't create it.

Because that came crashing into our time and we reverse engineered it. However, the people in our future didn't create it either because it took the reverse engineering process of their ancestors to figure out how this thing worked. It's not a paradox. It doesn't need to have a creator. We're just used to thinking that because we have this bias, linear, one-dimensional reference for time. But with the time machine, you can have a future cause and a past effect and

They have managed to send a particle back in time. I'm talking milliseconds or something. And most people will shrug, no big deal. But it is a big deal because if you can send a particle back in time, even if it's just a millisecond, per definition, that means you can send anything, you know, big or small,

as far back as you want. It's just a principle of it. It's just a refinement of it. Can I talk about this? Because it was a very, very odd, paranormal interaction that involved telepathic communication. They blacked out my eyes and injected things into my brain, which is how this came up somewhat serendipitously because...

They did the same thing where they told me I wouldn't have access to this information, but there were three things they needed to put in my brain for some future times and that these things would come out when they were supposed to. So kind of this time release information situation. And they were very polite. They asked me if I agreed to this.

The voice of our guest tonight belongs to Dr. Michael Paul Masters, who is an American professor, author, and scientist. He received his Bachelor in Anthropology and French in 2000 from Ohio University, Masters in Anthropology in 2003 from Ohio State University, and

and went on to complete his PhD at the same institution in 2009, where he specialized in hominin, evolutionary anatomy, archaeology and biomedicine. In his academic career, he has taught a range of anthropology courses, including biological anthropology, cultural anthropology, archaeology and sociology. He has conducted research on topics such as relationship between health,

and socioeconomic status using anthropometric indicators, demographic structure and foraging patterns of howler monkeys, capuchins and spider monkeys, and human ocular, orbital, mid-facial, cerebral and neurocranial morphology. Between 2001 he worked as a research assistant in Department of Anthropology at Ohio State University between 2 and 4 years.

as TA in their School of Journalism and Communications between 2004 and 2005, as GRA at the same place between 2005 and 2006, as instructor in the Department of Sociology and Anthropology at Ohio Dominican University,

Between 2002 and 2008 as instructor in Department of Anthropology at Ohio State University. Between 2005 and 2009 as instructor in School of Social and Behavioral Sciences at Columbus State University College. Between 2008 and 2009 as a lecturer in Department of Anthropology at Ohio State University.

between nine and thirteen as assistant professor at Montana Technological University, between thirteen and eighteen as associate professor there, and since eighteen he has been a full professor of biological anthropology in their Department of Interdisciplinary Arts and Sciences.

Great that those faculties now exist, where his research program is centering on hominin, evolutionary anatomy, human variation, archaeology, biomedicine and the UFO phenomenon.

Some of Dr. Master's honors and awards received are Rose and Anna Bush Faculty Achievement Award in 14 and Montana Tech Faculty Merit Award in 13, 16 and 20. He has a large body of academic publications, among others in American Journal of Physical Anthropology,

Journal of Anatomy, Frontiers in Human Neuroscience, American Journal of Human Biology, and Medical Hypothesis. To read some of his studies, you can check out, for example, Google Scholar.

Michael Masters' books aim to provide a scientific and multidisciplinary approach to these topics using evidence from fields such as astronomy, physics and biology. In 19 he published the book Identified Flying Objects, a multidisciplinary scientific approach to the UFO phenomenon. In 22, The Extratempestrial Model, a scientific hypothesis for extraterrestrial life and UFOs.

And in 23, Revelations, the future human past. He has been featured in many movies, docus and TV programs like The Experiencers, The Proof is Out There, Ancient Aliens, Top Secret UFO Projects Declassified and Evidence of the Unexplained. He has also been featured in several prominent media outlets to discuss his research, such as Coast to Coast AM,

The Richard Dolan Show, Dreamland with Whitley Streber, Mysterious Universe, Fade to Black with Jimmy Church, New Thinking Allowed with Jeffrey Mishlove, Open Minds, UFO Radio, UFO Rabbit Hole, The Anomalist, Rogue Planet and the UFO Chronicles. Some of Michael's non-academic interests include skiing, piano, mandolin, painting, golfing and tennis.

And now, let's travel back in time to listen to our conversation. Welcome to Forum Borealis, Michael. Thanks, Al. Where in America are you? I am in southwest Montana. Ah, Montana. A town called Butte, Montana. It's kind of nestled in the mountains. Yeah, isn't there Scandinavian ancestors living there?

isn't it montana yeah quite a few actually it's uh there's a whole section of town where uh people from finland and norway worked it was a mining town about 100 years ago so a lot of miners nice nice um is it also where jesse ventura was governor no that's minnesota

Okay, Minnesota. Is that a neighbor state? No, it's about a 12-hour drive to the east. Oh, okay. We're closer to Oregon, Washington. Right, more in the west coast. Yeah, yeah. It's considered the Pacific Northwest. Right. Well, my impression is that that's like closer to Europe in many ways. Yeah, yeah, I guess so. Culturally and...

Yeah, I was just in Europe actually. Uh-huh. Where? I took the family into Paris and then we rented a car and went down through the countryside and ended up in the Mediterranean and then flew out of Barcelona about three weeks later. Ah, Barcelona, that's beautiful.

Yeah, that's lovely. Barcelona, as they say. But Paris is an outburned whore, I have to say. Oh, I still love it. She's seen better days. I've been to Paris. I've been going to Paris since 1998. A lot of people say that, but I still love it.

Yeah, it's great, except for, I don't know what happened to the French spirits after COVID. I know. Yeah, it's really sad. I used to live with a family in France, and we were visiting them. They live in Tours, just a little south of Paris, and

They were really depressed about it. Just the life went out of the French people in that country. It's really sad. And before COVID, so promising, they had a yellow West and everything. It was like almost a new revolution. But okay, let's get to it then. All right. I appreciate you having me on. It's good to be with you here today. Yeah, it's a funny story how this happened.

See, I was having a discussion with a guest, and it wasn't even about UFOs. It was about death, of all things. And we were discussing his book, and I told him, look, man, I've often thought, especially lately, that many of these encounters has to be

from the future. It has to be probably humans from the future. And when I saw a mention of that in his book, I said, I've never seen this discussed anywhere. Now, he didn't elaborate on it, of course, because it was about something else. And he agreed with me that, yeah, that's just also something that he intuitively have thought. Mm-hmm.

so and i lamented that there was no proper research or book on this and then a listener contacted me if you're out there it was a woman but i damn i forgot her name i'm so sorry i would have given you a shout out but she linked me to your work

I immediately knew, okay, great. Because my show is not me ranting on about my own theories. I sneak them in in the discussions, of course, but I want someone on who can deliver. And it indeed seems you can.

You have three books on the issue. We're going to get to those at the end. But tell me, first of all, Michael, where did you come into this notion? Is this something you have kind of developed as your own hypothesis? Or have you been reading up on, studying up on it or someone else and taking that and ran with it? Or how did this begin?

Yeah, well, I'd like to give out a shout out to the person that recommended my work as well. Yeah.

Yeah, to answer your question, it's been kind of a lifelong pursuit. It started when I was about eight or nine years old, actually. So in that sense, it's an original idea. However, as I started getting more involved in this and talking about it publicly, I learned that there's a lot of others who have also explored this as a potentiality. And in fact, in my second book, The Extra-Tempestual Model,

And one of the first chapters, I try to list out all of the people I could find, not just authors, but military members, producers, directors. There's a lot of people who've considered this and really tried to work it into the global zeitgeist in some capacity. So I wanted to sort of give an homage to them who came before, but

But yeah, no, it was an independent thought that came to me sort of through what I consider now to be a moment of conscious precognition. I've had dream precognition my entire life. I dream things before they happen, sometimes as early as the day before they happen, sometimes months, years, even decades before.

But this was a moment of conscious precognition where I looked up at the living room shelf and my father had gotten a copy of Whitley Strieber's book, Communion, which had just come out. And mostly because he had seen a UFO not long before I was born. And when Whitley's book came out, he was interested in learning more about the phenomenon. So he got that copy.

And I remember very vividly walking into the living room and that book was facing out on the top shelf in a little inset bookshelf thing in that particular room. And I had this thought pop in my mind, I think in pictures, and it was accompanied by a picture where it was kind of on the left side an early hominin or chimpanzee-like form. In the middle was a modern human. And then on the right side was an image that...

very much like what Whitley had drawn for his book cover and the

The three were so similar, what I eventually learned are called synapomorphies or homologies, but just traits that indicate common ancestry, a common heritage, and the result of common ancestry. We have the same ancestor going back, if they are hominins, if they are us or our evolutionary descendants, going back about six to eight million years in the past since we split off from the line that would eventually become chimpanzees. So

Yeah, I just, you know, I didn't know the word synapomorphy at that time. Obviously, I was about nine years old, but just intuitively, like you said, I sensed that there's

some commonality there and more than what you would expect if it was an organism that developed on a separate planet, had its own evolutionary history elsewhere. It's just, there's too many similarities in the craniofacial architecture. And that's eventually what I went on to study in becoming a paleoanthropologist, a biological anthropologist is modern paleoanthropology.

Yeah.

Psychos, you say, indeed, because after I became, like, after I had that interview with that guest and we had talked about it and I discovered that he too had the same thoughts, because he wasn't aware of your work, I became aware. But that's normal. That's a normal phenomenon, right? That when you're aware of something, when you think about something, you see it everywhere. Right.

So suddenly, right? Absolutely. Yeah, the synchronicities and literary angels, things just pop out of the bookshelf at you and, yeah, answer a question. Yeah, and among chats. So I saw that suddenly it was an idea out there. And also, you know, that very rarely when it's a lone idea, when we make progress, it's often, like you say, synchronicity, new inventions come at the same time. So,

For some reason, this thought form has been planted among humans right now. And one of the things that made me aware that it's in the zeitgeist right now is... Are you aware of the show called Redacted? I think I've heard of it. I don't know anything about it, though. No, no. It's a pretty... Several million, I think, followers on YouTube. Yeah.

It's two ex-journalists, ex-mainstream journalists, a couple, I'll give a shout out to them, Clayton and Natalie, I forgot their last name. But anyway, they had on a chap who is an experiencer and it was the first time he had been on. If I remember right, he came on, it was because of these disclosure things going on now in the Congress and all.

And I don't usually listen to these things. It bores me. I've heard enough about it since I was very young, 15, and got interested in UFOs. But I had that on, and he said that he was an experiencer for me as a child. And they had told him, these creatures, I think they were grayish, kind of. They had told him that they were from the future. Yeah, a lot of people are told that. Experiencers? Yeah.

Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. I've, I've met so many, I mean, obviously there's some selection bias or sample bias in that because they reach out to me because I've sort of become the main advocate for this idea that again, it's been around as early as the 1940s, but yeah, people reach out to me all the time and say, I was on a ship and I sat down with these people. They look just like you and me. Uh, and they said they're from the future. And,

um one in particular which is kind of interesting along these same lines is they uh

I guess they told this woman that they don't advertise that, they don't make it known. And in many cases, they have just said that they're from a different planet for ease of our understanding, mostly because we don't understand, we don't talk about time. But they also added another bit of information that I think is interesting and relevant, is they said that they don't advertise that because they don't want people to think that

um or to get a false sense of what groups like what races what we used to call race what ancestral groups become dominant in the future because we tend to see some groups over others and they're afraid we would fight wars over access to this technology to become the dominant ones in that future so you know that kind of makes sense and and goes along with this sort of

prime directive that you see where they don't make themselves known. They don't, you know, they haven't yet just shown up. But like you said, there's definitely an interjection of this idea into the global zeitgeist. And I mentioned this specifically toward the beginning of my second book where

The theory of evolution or the law of evolution, because it's not just a theory, where you have Charles Darwin and Alfred Russell Wallace discover this same process of evolutionary change by means of natural selection unrelated to each other in two very different parts of the world.

at the same time. And there's so many examples of this throughout history where we just sort of get to the place where we have this foundation of knowledge that we can build on top of. And it's just a short step to the next thing that allows us to have this new foundation

of realization, essentially. And I think that's what's happening with the UFO phenomenon. And with regard to this theory, too, I think it's part of the equation. I don't think it answers everything. There's certainly a lot more going on. But like you said at the start of the show, it's most likely a part of the equation, at least. Yeah, indeed. And the interesting thing, like this experiencer I listened to, he talked about science

something happening, some big event. I forgot the details. Not that he had too many details, though, because it was on his fourth or fifth, you know, in the beginning. I mean, you can imagine if you are like 10, 12 year old and experience this.

You're not going to start interviewing them, right? But eventually he did get them to say something. And apparently something is going to happen. And I think they needed access. They were coming now because it's before that thing. And I think he got the impression that they needed...

something now to save or to, I don't know, save, but something they didn't have access to there and then in there. And they didn't want to go into details about it or they didn't go into details. I mean, he was basically a kid. So I guess that's responsible. But my question then is,

since you also have checked what people have said about this, have you noticed any commonalities among the stories? I mean, we probably can rule out some of them. Some of them are probably not that. Some of them may even be completely other things. Maybe some are making up stuff and maybe some are mentally unstable, but there will always be

You know, if you have a sample group of 100, there will be some that are it. So it's interesting then to see, because if they are all, those who are genuine should have commonalities, maybe not in all details, but in some stuff. It's like when you study near-death experiences, right? There will be subjective and individual experiences.

colorings, filterings, projections, but then there will be, for example, the tunnel and the feeling of love. It doesn't matter which religion you're from or whatever, right? So I'm wondering the same here. With a scientific approach, you should be able to see stuff like that. Have you seen any? Oh, yeah, absolutely. That was kind of the main focus of my second book was to

look at a number of different case studies and use what we call an abductive approach, which ironically is also what happens to people as they're abducted. But an abductive approach, you look at all available information. It's hard to really classify it as evidence, but there are data points. And if you have enough of those, it's not just anecdote anymore. They are actually data points for observational studies like this.

But with the subductive approach, you look at all the information and then try to whittle down the best explanation, what we call inference to the best explanation. And in doing so, yeah, a lot of patterns emerge. This is definitely a real phenomenon. This is happening. People are being taken. A lot of the same things happen to them. And interestingly, it's almost identical to what I would do as a biological anthropologist and along with cultural anthropologists and linguists,

If we had access to time travel technology right now, I've worked on digs in South Africa and Southern France and throughout the United States. And we're left with artifacts where one of the sites was 3.5 million years old. And all we have is fossils and teeth at that point. So...

Yeah, if I had access to this technology, I'd be in a lot of the same things and that Joan over and over through the patterns that emerge. Also lifelong abductees. And this is another thing that sort of indicates that their time traveling is that abductees are picked up usually be to the young age around seven to nine typically. And they're

Yeah.

you know, five, six, 10 times over the course of their life. But to those researchers, it's maybe a day or two. So you wouldn't expect them to change throughout that period. Cause only a day or two has passed. Um,

Um, also with the lifelong abductees, another pattern that emerged in doing this study was that there's typically a, what I dub a chaperone or some sort of caretaker, like a social worker assigned to each individual. They don't recognize just the people, but one specific individual who's sort of like a mother figure when they're young or a father figure. And that's one of the patterns that emerged is that chaperone tends to be the opposite sex, uh,

of the abductee in almost every case I encountered. And then they're sent to be the one that reminds them, okay, you're safe, you've been here with us before. And yeah, they interact with them throughout that abductee's lifetime. And there were other patterns like that that emerged. But I think that is a good way to conduct a study like this because we can't apply the same standards of evidence that we would

in doing a lab experiment uh but we can use observational research methods which are just as valid um in order to yeah they use it in medicine i mean most everywhere yeah because you can't experiment on people and that's why anthropologists are uniquely positioned to do this because we can't experiment on people but we can account for a lot of variables and still make logical inferences based on the data available to us through observational studies like those

Right. But it sounds to me that your sample group are meeting human beings. This chap that Redactor talked with had, these were so-called greys, or a variation of those. And there it's hard to distinguish between gender and... I mean, these Nordics...

I wouldn't mind a future if, you know, we still look human. And actually, as they often describe, we look super handsome and pretty and we have telepathic abilities. And I mean, that's an ideal future. That's where we would maybe expect evolution to go if we get our act straight here and now. Yeah. But...

What spooks me is this grace, because first of all, they are often one commonality when it comes to those creatures is that they are described as robotic, like organic machines. But if they actually are our end stop, then we are talking about a very horrible line of evolution, probably a transhumanist direction.

Because one of the things, when I was like 15, 16 and started to interest in parapsychology, UFOs and all that stuff, in the beginning it was the same fascinating. But as I grew older, I realized, look, man, these has to be projections because why are all human beings completely different? But every time we see aliens, they are just like insects, right? Yeah.

I don't mean like literally that too, of course, we have insectoids, but they are always, they all look the same. There's no individual distinguished feature. Now there may be the, of course, the experience bias. Like if you go back a hundred years or 200 years, if someone in Europe saw several black people, they would kind of think they looked alike, right?

But when you grow up with different ethnicities, we learn to see a distinguished feature. Actually, it's the same with the blacks. They thought Europeans looked alike. So you have that. But even still, look, you can say someone has a long nose, a short nose. Someone has high forehead, low forehead. Someone has different color on their hair. There are some distinctions anyway. But for these reports, they're always like,

what I deem archetypal things. But lately, when I've been thinking about these maybe either transhumanist things or, like I said, a very sad... You know, we humanize mice in labs today. So why wouldn't we? I mean, if the powers that be are in charge forever and ever...

The chances are we're going to look like that eventually if you're given enough time. So what's your thought about this?

Yeah, there's a lot to unpack there. So when I first started working on this, and it was actually something I overlooked in my first book, is that I was just focused on the greys. Because they do have, and that's what drew me into this, is they're ubiquitously reported as having the same characteristics as a human, just accentuated based on evolutionary trends. And the most dominant trends is this bifurcation with the lineage that became chimps.

is that we have what's called encephalization, an increase in brain size, and a reduction in our facial anatomy, orthognathism. So you have this trade-off between the brain and the face. Not only is our brain getting bigger, it expanded forward anteriorly, and we're the only mammal, in fact, that has a brain, the frontal lobes that sit out over top of the eyes.

And in addition to moving forward and expanding medial laterally left to right, the parietal lobes in the back, and especially in more recent human evolution, we have what's called neurocranial globularity, where we have these big round bulbous heads, small faces, our eyes would get bigger in association with the brain increasing in size because of what we call pleiotropic gene mechanism.

largely what I focused on because of my own research. But yeah, the hairlessness, the thinner frail bodies, the telepathic communication is an aspect of our evolving brains and consciousness and mind.

So to get to your, uh, the robotic aspect, yes, some of the grays are described as being robotic, but a lot of them do have individual personalities. Some of them do look different. If you look at the case of Travis Walton, when he first woke up, there were two grays, short grays tending to him. That's another thing is childlike characteristics. What we call neoteny or pedomorphosis is also very much a characteristic of human evolution and the

these grays specifically they look like children essentially of today but they also might be making robots in their own image already making robots in our image now so we expect if these future humans are making a robot carry out some of these more dangerous tasks like what whitley streber experienced he was initially taken by a short gray that seemed to be robotic as well but

The woman he interacted with, again, their genitals are somewhat atrophied, and that's also an aspect of human evolution to some extent. But he still recognized her as a female from her presence. There's almost a spiritual gender. It's not just, can I see a penis? Can I see a vagina? But there's a sense of their gender based on their

Yeah, Jung has definitely illustrated how gender is also a psychological thing. Yeah, absolutely. Like anima animus, right? We have both genders. Like men have the inner feminine, females have the inner masculine. So that's a game. Exactly. Yeah, so that comes into play as well. So what I think is that with these Nordics, as they're called, that they're probably a more close to us in time, a more proximate period. Yeah.

In human evolution, maybe 8,000, 10,000 years in the future, but then these grays are likely 50,000 or 60,000 years in the future. So it's what I call temporal ancestry. In the same way, like you said, you can see characteristics of sub-Saharan Africans who look different from people in your part of the world, my part of the world, Native Americans, Australian Aborigines.

Those characteristics that we see now because of our evolutionary history and adapting to the environments in those different regions, we would expect to see something similar over evolutionary time if people are coming back from different periods in time. So I think they're all probably future humans or at least made by future humans in the case of the avatars that look and act more robotic and don't seem to have a soul, so to speak, but are still likely made by individual humans that

That look and act a lot like us but make these things to do a specific job and and I'll point out one last thing If you look at the the doctor Edgar Mitchell free study, it was the largest to date the largest Survey of experiencers the most commonly reported form were humans exactly like us exactly like these Nordics with somewhat accentuated evolutionary characteristics telepathic abilities, but they still look very human and

And then were the short greys. And then the tall greys, it should be pointed out, they do look different for short greys. They seem to be in charge of what's going on in most cases. And then you add hybrids between those. And all four of those, importantly, based on how we classify a hominin, an upright walking human, these would all count as that. They would be in the hominin clade or we would have a phylogenetic relationship to them, as we would say. So I really think a lot of the variation that we see

May just be the result of what time period they're coming back from and possibly what place they might be coming back from. Because some still are described as having East Asian characteristics, whereas others are described as being more Nordic looking. So it could be both. It could be time and also racial ancestry coming into play. Yeah.

Yeah, but I expect like 60,000 years. I think the racial features may still be there, but...

Yeah, they wouldn't be as recognizable compared to, yeah, I literally said so many of these same things. I agree completely in a case study 10 of my second book. I actually just came on my iPod the other day and I was listening to it because it's been so long since I've written that book now. But I said that exact same thing, that if you look at what we consider geographic racial differences today, um,

With people coming back 60,000 years, they would hardly notice. We would probably all look the same to them. I completely agree with that. Yeah, and also it seems, at least in the so-called grey manifestations, there's also a commonality that they seem to have no empathy. Not evil, but that they are puzzled about our emotions. Our emotions are like...

How we would... Like, if we catch a feral animal, right? The instincts and the fear and... It's like somehow they have purged their emotions, which I don't think is a good thing. I mean, we can refine emotions, but...

to remove it altogether sounds to me like a transhumanist. I don't know, because those same emotions are also why we commit genocides and go to war with each other and rape and pillage and plunder. They're not always good. You know what? I don't buy it. That's like saying all wars are because of religions. That's very... You have to go deep. No, I think those are very different things. They stem from some sort of emotional response. I'm not saying all of them are because of that.

But certainly some aspect of conflict, you could argue most conflicts are the result of some sort of human emotion. Okay, let me clarify then. If I'm a pope or I'm a king a thousand years ago, the reason I'm going to war is the same reason people go to war today, which actually is connected to emotion, but that's the emotion of power.

and like the psychopathic thing, right? Money, power, all that stuff. But then when I whip up a frenzy among the population, then of course I'm appealing to, you know, more baser emotions. Like, for example, I use religion as an excuse or instinct. But,

If there was no psychopaths in charge who were – like today, it's all about profiting. It's all about keeping the military industrial complex going. Nobody's going to war because like, oh, look, Putin is crazy and is angry and he's lost it and now he wants to take revenge. That just doesn't happen. Yeah.

But that's the story that, you know, the less informed worker bees in our society maybe entertains in their skull because they're not going deeper. They need to be on board for us to go to those wars in the first place. They have to have those emotions triggered in order to get that group mentality that says...

they're different from us, we're better than them, let's kill them. And it's certainly appealing to people's basal reptilian cortex in doing that. But I'd also like to point out in the context of what started this side conversation of something being evil or lacking empathy, a lot of times wars that are committed are because the person that initiates them thinks they're doing something good. They really don't.

feel that they're on the right side of history, even with these genocides a lot of time, that there's some sort of reason behind it that they can justify and they see themselves as doing something good and the people they're killing as being the evil ones. And that plays into a lot of this that we're talking about, the military industrial complex, the constructing the other, the us versus them mentality and many, many other things as well. But

And I just I think it's hard when we're talking about this stuff to really put some sort of positive or negative valence to it. And especially if we're talking about humans from tens of thousands of years in the future. I mean, what is good and bad? What is morality? What is ethics? Well, it's just really hard to nail that down, I think.

Yeah, it's dangerous because we could relativize, right? I want to say two things about that before we move on. Number one, if you go back and study decentralized societies, the mostly reason they are warring then is for resources, which is a survival thing. And that's understandable. It's not because they're losing their cool, right? Right.

But when it comes to emotions, how demonized they are. Look, people are sick today when it comes to emotions. Not just today, but the more alienated we get and the more stressed we get. Yeah.

But so I'm not saying that emotions, it's the same with thoughts. Is it good to remove thoughts because you can have the thought that you can, you know, I can torture someone like this. You know, you can use your thoughts negatively. You can use your emotions negatively. My point is, if we are going to find some commonality, some universal law, for example, when it comes to emotions, let's look at the Nell Death Studies.

and spiritual experiences and like, you know, Nirvana, all that stuff. There's commonalities here that love, no matter the culture, love is, it's not like a coincidence that love is regarded as the good thing. And that's one of, uh, that's even a more commonality in the dust studies than the tunnel. So this bliss feeling forgiveness, uh,

it's like, it's the most human thing. You have a family. You go on holiday to Paris. Emotions and love is a huge part of that. And I think it is what defines us as human beings. I think so too. Right? So that's why I'm very skeptical if

in the future we don't have that well that's what I was going to say is it seems like in many cases we have more of it that the empathy reigns that we get almost more in touch with the spiritual aspects of our soul which I think is what really makes us human and escape more of these

sort of ancestral reptilian tendencies of just eat and fuck and hate and war and things like that. Like, I really do think, yeah, other than these robotic forms that don't seem to have any sort of empathy, the tall gray ones seemingly have an exponentially greater amount than we do. And they can use their mind to communicate telepathically. And when they take humans in this physical realm, in our very primitive state, into that existence that they're a part of,

we then feel that we're imbued with that and you come away from these experiences with a greater sense of love and empathy. It's really common among the experiencers that interact with those types. Obviously there could be a lot more going on. There could be negative factions. It's not all just the same ones interacting with us all the time. A lot of bad things do happen to people.

seemingly by beings that don't care. But there are a lot of them that do. And I would argue those are from a future where we're much more evolved, not just physically, but consciously. And that we're more aware of these aspects of our spiritual existence that involve great empathy and love. Yeah, here, here. Like, it's fun to discuss these aspects, but I want to go a detour into the technical stuff, the scientific stuff.

It's not that long ago I read they have managed for the first time... I forgot the details. Maybe you know about this, but...

They have managed to send a particle back in time. And we're talking milliseconds or something. And most people will shrug, no big deal. But it is a big deal because if you can send a particle back in time, even if it's just a millisecond, per definition, that means you can send anything, you know, big or small,

As far back as you want. It's just a principle of it. It's just a refinement of it. It's like now we invented the wheel. Eventually the wheel will become a car, right? So that's why I'm not going to ask you, oh, do you really think it's possible? Because now we know it's possible. Do you have any comment to this aspect of it? Yeah, I mean, so obviously a big part of this theory is the time travel component. And so...

There's not many things that physicists agree on, and we don't need physicists to confirm this for us, because they don't have any idea what's going on either, and they'll be the first to admit it. But we know that time is some sort of emergent property that emerges from something more fundamental about our universe that we don't yet understand. And

with that in mind, um, what I tried to do in my first book, especially it was just start with what we do know, what we can know right now. Cause I, I wasn't given any esoteric knowledge from the future that explains exactly how these time machines work. So I started with Einstein's 1905, uh,

theory of special relativity and then mostly from his 1915 paper on general relativity that he published ten field equations in association with solutions to those those field equations almost instantly at least in historic time with lens and theory only about two or three years later showed that frame drag in the rotation of a massive or highly energetic object could create back

Time travel abilities. Closed time light curves. It can reorient light cones toward the past. And then you had Godel in the 50s. You had Van Stockham. A spinning disk essentially. An infinitely large one. And then importantly in the 70s. Frank Tipler. A well known cosmologist. Physicist.

showed that if you shrink all of that down to the size of a rapidly rotating ring, sphere, or disk, which is exactly what we see with these UFOs, you can create those same time-bending properties with something finite. It no longer has to be infinite in size.

And really, we have this expression in biology that form follows function. And if we look at the form of the saucer-shaped craft, I don't think they're all time machines. The triangular ones are clearly something different, probably built in our time by these groups from the future. My thought on that is a tangent.

But they do seem to have a form of what would be capable of creating closed time-like curves and moving that object back in time. I think those are the actual time machine. And I list a number of cases in my second book where the space-time metric around them, space and time seems to shift or be modified in proximity to these craft. So you have, for instance, Jim Penniston, I

The Rendlesham Forest case where he moves into this sphere of influence, as he called it, and the entire forest goes silent. You don't hear anything because time isn't moving in the same way any longer within that relative reference frame. You also have time passing at different rates. The case of Corporal Armando Valdez in Chile, 1977, I believe, where he walks into proximity to this craft, disappears immediately.

relative to the six men in his platoon that were outside watching. He's gone for only 15 minutes to those men, but five days passed for him within that space-time bubble. I also think, and this was pointed out to me by someone who claimed to have been an intelligence agent not long after my first book came out, but that's also likely what explains how they can do these tests

10,000 G maneuvers, these instantaneous accelerations and decelerations is that they're not actually doing that or it smashed them on the inside of the craft, but it's what we see outside of that reference frame. It looks like they're doing a 10,000 G maneuver, but really it could be zero or one G to them. It's just a difference in how time passes in that space time bubble versus outside of it in global space time, which is what we're a part of. Yeah. Yeah.

Now, this is significant because I don't know if you, I mean, you just gave examples, but I'm going to substantiate that with further examples that you may or may not have included in your work. But you have Korsarev, for example, he launched, you know, in the Soviet Union, he launched a hyperdimensional physics model, which were based on

Yes, rotation, but you have two opposite rotations. That's always significant in this technology. Yeah, absolutely. You're right. And you find the same reports regarding the so-called Die Glocke, the Nazi bell, which, by the way, many think, I mean, in the law, it was you for no. If you look at, they call it Project Kronos.

We both know that Kronos is the god for time. And there were some weird experiments. You have, of course, the so-called... What's it called? The ship that went in and out of time in Bermuda. What was that called again? Yeah, the Philadelphia experiment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's a provenance of incidents or ideas or possible, like...

here that all point in the same direction. And also, in traditional UFO experience situation, it's so common that they are silent.

That they are silent. Now they have a light. Or a slight hum. What's that? Or a slight humming sound, they say. Or a slight humming sound, yes, yes, yes, that too. But definitely not what you would expect from, let's say, fuel-based engines, right? Right, yeah. So we're dealing with something completely different. But I've always thought that just from basic science, Einsteinian science, that if you are traveling in space...

and not by traditional combustion, then you also, per definition, must be traveling in time. Yep. Right? So could you address this?

Yeah, at least since Minkowski, who was Einstein's mentor, they sort of collaborated on this four-dimensional space-time model. Minkowski space-time is what it came to be known as, where, yeah, time and space are inseparable. And I used to hear this. People have kind of grown out of this, mostly because it doesn't make sense. But I used to hear people say,

try to say as a criticism of this idea, well, the galaxy is moving at this rate and then, you know, if you try to go back in time, it would be in a different place, but that separates space and time. And one thing that we now know and have since really 1916, I think, is that it's one thing. So if you're moving backward in time, you're also moving backward in space. And

Because they're both compressed. An easier way to think of it is with the twin thought experiment. It's called the twins paradox, but it's not actually a paradox. And I think when we use that phrase, it confuses people. So most of your listeners, I'm sure, are familiar with this, so I'll keep it short. But two twins, identical, same age, one gets into a spaceship, travels at near the speed of light.

they see basically time stop because the light is moving with them. As they left, that same light from that moment also left. So they see almost time stopping on Earth, but space is compressed too. Both space and time are compressed. On the return trip back, they're now flooding Earth

through all of those moments of time and the light that came from the earth as they're moving in reverse. So time speeds up tremendously. And when they get back, they find that time had slowed for them inside the craft, but it sped up on earth. And so if they're gone for 10 years, maybe 20,000 years would have passed on earth. And I think this is an important thing to consider too, because even if we are talking about a space varying civilization, or if we are

become a space-faring interstellar civilization, we're going to have to account for that in traveling to other stars and planets. So we would likely be developing time travel technology in association with the same technology that allows us to be interstellar, just so not only could we get back to our planet, but get back to our planet at the time that we left, so everyone isn't dead that we knew, and our kids don't grow up and die and have their own kids that grow up and die and grow up and die.

So if we are doing that in association with interstellar travel technology, what would keep us from using that same backward time travel technology to go into the past and study our ancestors and likely use that technology to solve problems that we may have? And what you're, the experiencer you were talking about who mentioned there's something coming, I've heard this over and over.

over and over and over from all experiencers, not just ones that talk about this time travel theory, but they're all being told the same thing. There's some sort of shift coming. And one thing that dominates basically the 60s through the 90s is the extraction of genetic material. And if there is something coming that creates a bottleneck in human evolution, we're already becoming a homogenized group. Mm-hmm.

where there's no place left to get new genes because we've been interbreeding really since European colonialism began about 500 years ago. So the only place to get wild type DNA to help alleviate problems with reproduction would be in the human past. And there seems to have been this program that lasted about 40 years where that's exactly what they were doing in mass numbers. Like people who are taking and having genetic material extracted typically survive

tens, hundreds of other people being marched through these corridors and into these rooms and having the same thing happen to them. But that's kind of tapered off since the 2000s, since the Audis really. And it makes you wonder if that thing that they were taking this genetic material for wrapped up because that thing that so many experiencers are warned about

coming soon if we're on the precipice of whatever that is. So it's a little bit speculative to connect these two things, but again, we started this conversation by looking at patterns, and one of the most dominant patterns that emerges from people having these contact experiences is a warning about some sort of cataclysm. Is it war? Is it an asteroid? Is it just a shift in consciousness? Nobody knows, but something's coming. Yeah.

I'm going to say something bold. I know what it is, and I'm going to tell you. I'd love to know. You want to hear? I've heard about four or five different things. Yeah, but this is undeniable. But anyway, I'm going to tell you. But I want to say, damn, that means I have no descendants in the future because nobody's come back to visit me. Right.

Yeah, I don't know. I was just talking to a colleague of mine the other day and she was like, you know, I think I have good genes. I'm kind of pissed that nobody's come back to talk to me and take my eggs. You know, like, what does this mean for me and my ancestors? But I don't think everybody is going to die. I don't think that the only way the human population survives is with death.

this genetic material they've taken, but it seems to be probably a way of diversifying our gene pool rather than just replacing everybody that's alive today. I don't know, but I don't know. So what do you think it is? What do you think's coming? I'll tell you, but I want to say first that you talked about the time thing and you mentioned interstellar. That's a movie too. And they picked up on something similar to what you're talking about, because if you go into black holes, right?

You'll experience exactly the same thing as you talked about. How I'm outside the black hole, the other guy is on the verge. I'm aging, he's not. He comes back, I'm a handful of dust when he's back. So it's fascinating how that works.

We've had shows about time, so we don't have to go too much into that. Although I'm going to discuss timelines with you. But first, my bold claim. I goddamn know what it is. At least I know that this thing is a factor. There's no denying it.

Now, with the risk of getting this show censored on YouTube, something happened very recently that will alter the future of humankind. And for every year passing now, we know more and more and more. And that is that 80% of the human beings living right now has been genetically modified. They have been polluted. They've been polluted with this mRNA thing, spike protein.

And it is per definition, gene manipulation. It's not even gene therapy, gene manipulation. Now, I'm not saying like, oh, it's a sinister cabal. They're going to develop grace with this. I'm just saying there's no turning back.

And I have to complete a reasoning here, so indulge me. In the same moment, we also see that there is explosion of sterility. Yeah. And this thing about, oh, we overpopulated Dr. Hans Roslin, Swedish doctor. I think that was his name. Too bad he died a few years ago.

He already before this thing back like five to 10 years ago said, no, no, no, no. This is a huge misunderstanding.

We are not overpopulated. In fact, the Earth can take five times as many. We can discuss resources and the way we are doing the resource thing now with a corporate model is ruining Earth. But that's not because it's not enough food. It's the way they're doing it. No, it's overconsumption, not overpopulation. And it's wrong. It's also like a wrong way of...

doing the agriculture and all that. But this is another debate. The point is, now, already now we see the numbers. They are projecting now that already 10 years from now, we will be like declining, what you say, exponentially. So it's not like a gradual, it's a crisis we're going into. So that's number one.

Number two, when we have... There are some pure bloods around, but they are going to be polluted because the spike protein doesn't just travel. It travels through everything. It goes through people's brain, but even the membrane protecting the mother's milk, which is the huge...

As a scientist, you probably know this. That's like the huge wall that's there. And now they're talking about these insane unscientific people. Bill Gates, a college dropout, knows nothing about these things. But he wants to spray mRNA in the air and force it on people. They want to do it in all animals, in animals.

Even in the wild, they were talking about during the COVID thing, the lockdown thing, insane people in the media was talking about, oh, we have to go. I mean, it's so, it's like a child, a crazy child. They want to go and give vaccines to animals in the wild. One thing is in zoos and farms in the wild.

So they are like obsessed with this. And now they're going to develop all sorts of so-called vaccines based on the mRNA. It's per definition not a vaccine anymore. A vaccine is taking a dead virus and it's a sound principle. It's actually a homopathic principle. And you create a reaction by using your body's immune system. But here we are talking about putting in these alien elements that are not natural and

and hoping that they will achieve something. So they're going to make malaria intervention medicine. They're going to do all sorts of stuff with mRNA, and they're going to take perfectly good vaccines that work today, and they're going to change them into mRNA. It's what those people with power and influence do.

and finances and control are saying openly that they want to do. But even without all that, even if that doesn't happen, it's too late because they have now proven, people Google this, it's out in the open. It's no wild theory for me. It's things that I read and react to that it spreads in kissing. It spreads, especially in sexual intercourse.

So unless people are going to be like Nazis and say, I am not going to breed with some mRNA people. I'm not going to let my offspring breed. We're not going to be able to control this. So even if we have 20% quote unquote purebloods around now, go down 20 years, 30 years, 40 years, everybody's going to have this stuff in their system. And another thing they're saying, and I'm almost done with my rant now, is that...

You have to monitor it for 12 years before you know the final outcome. So people who took the mRNA and are not dropping dead or getting blood clots or myocarditis and all these things that are reported and think, oh, I'm out of the woods. You're not out of the woods until it's been 12 years. And those 12 years are just to know if you survive, if you can write off this thing and continue to function.

as you do today, without... You have this rapid cancer that's exploding. It's all signs of aggressive gene manipulation. Now, let's say that most of the population writes this off, and we're still around 12 years from now. We do not know

What this will mean in terms of genetics, in terms of how the human race will, you know, what will happen with our DNA, what kind of artificial detour will we take in the development and evolution because of this?

Because it represents an artificial... So whether this is the event they're talking about or not, this has to come into the equation. Because they are not escaping it. They are carrying around whatever we did now. So I honestly think this is it. Comments? Yeah, I mean, I can't really comment on any of that. I...

Yeah, I don't know. Maybe. It's not something I've really looked into. No, but given that all my claims are actual, are real, not a speculation about the future, but what I've said so far is mainstream. Well, one thing I'll say is that when I was writing both of my books, I went out of my way to not just speculate about what might happen in the future. I really made a concerted effort to focus on dominant trends

trends now and things that are happening. And yes, I did look at the rapid reduction in fertility and fecundity, like a 60% reduction in sperm counts in males in the Western world. And that's

Because of something like it's clearly something environmental a lot of people chalk it up to pollution and Microplastics and hormones and our water and things like that so so I agree we should start with a place where we can have Verifiable proof of things happening now and what might be of the effect of that in the human future But like I said, I haven't looked into this mRNA thing it I to be honest I I tend to be a little

when people are talking about rich and powerful people and what Bill Gates is doing. But he's saying it in the open. Maybe. I don't know. I haven't looked into that. Google it. But you can see how that tends to sort of border on conspiracy theory. I don't know. For something to be a conspiracy hypothesis, first of all, you have to have a hypothesis that can't be verified. Right.

And then usually it's based on plausible dots. But you put together those dots. And yeah, it may be, but it may also not be. I'm talking about… Yeah, and that's all I'm saying. Sorry, I'm talking about interviews with Bill Gates. You can Google it and you can hear it coming out of his mouth. Yeah, sure, sure. I'm just saying that it's a perception thing. It's like how UFOs used to be.

Like you would be having a conversation with people and as soon as you say UFO, they shut down. And I'm just saying that for a lot of people, whether it's accurate or not, that tends to happen as soon as things like, you know, George Soros or Bill Gates or any of these rich, powerful people's names are thrown out. Like they control the universe in ways. So I'm not commenting on what you said. I'm just commenting on the process.

that tends to follow that. But you're not the only one who kind of thinks or points out these things. So it's for the benefit of the listener too, right? That what I'm saying is, look, it's speculation that the mRNA and the gene manipulation that we are going through now, that that has something to do with the grace or the future or that it's even a bad thing. Maybe we're right. I don't know. I'm just thinking that's plausible. What's not speculation is

that they have open plans and people can Google. It's just a keyboard click away folks that they have open plans to change like Garby and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation that are financing these things and Pfizer and all this stuff. It's they're not hiding it because for them, it's not a bad thing. I mean, I don't think they would have done these things if it was if they thought it was bad. Of course, the profit incentive is there. Yeah, but

They're saying, we want to change all vaccines into mRNA. Now, Robert Malone, who is the inventor of the mRNA principle in vaccines or in all sorts of tech, he has a new book out where he kind of is saying the same as me, where he's warning against this. Because, you know, all these to be safe and scientific, you have to monitor over time and

And you have to have at least a human, a basic human humbleness where you don't assume that you know everything, that you at least let the science, let the verifications speak for itself. But they don't do that these days. They rush it out and they... And I don't know why. I don't... Here's where this conspiracy theories comes in. Why are they in such a rush to...

force it down our throats everywhere, the whole world. That's where, ladies and gentlemen, launch your conspiracy theories. But what I said is not, and anyone can verify for themselves, but okay, you don't have much to say about it, so I'm not going to flog a dead horse. We can move on. But now I planted the idea, folks, so you think about it.

timeline. Yeah, just real quick before we move on, I will acknowledge, and honestly, you know, these days, as we find out more and more about what's been hidden from us with regard to the UFO phenomenon, it's naturally easy to say, well, what else have they been hiding from us? And certainly there's been a lot of things that were intentionally hidden because they violated laws and ethics, like experimenting with people

humans in the 60s with LSD and trying to understand drugs in different capacities and the way they introduce certain drugs to certain communities at various times. But also like prion diseases. You have around here a really big problem in the deer and elk is something called chronic wasting disease, which was a human made prion disease, which are really scary because it's just proteins that get out of control, almost like cancer.

And affect the brain and just make these animals wither away and become basically incapacitated cognitively and mentally. And that started from a deer farm where these had been interjected. There's a lot of things that we should be paying attention to that we don't.

And yeah, I don't know. Like I said, I'm not I can't comment on it because I don't know enough about it to make an informed opinion. Yeah. But I wouldn't be surprised if there's some things happening that could be detrimental in the human future because we don't stop and think about it.

or because it's not regulated or not tested in the way it should be. So, yeah, I'm not trying to poo-poo anything you said. I just don't have enough background knowledge to comment on. No, and you're a scientist, so you have to be careful what you say, too. But I think we can all agree that whatever it is, it's probably something we're doing to ourselves. Yeah.

Don't you think? Yeah, I would say so. I think in asteroids, probably. Rather than some aliens coming from Sirius to space invaders, I don't think that's it.

No, I don't think so. And I don't think it's something celestial. I think it's probably going to be war or disease or yeah, I do make the case that, you know, we might screw up something with CRISPR technology and trying to make designer babies or even try to cure some congenital diseases that we think we're doing something good, but we don't know enough about the ramifications, the latent effects. So we end up doing something bad.

that's very much a possibility as well. That's basically what I was saying. Only I was making a specific example of what it could be. Exactly. But in general, that is because it's a genetic manipulation, not manipulation, a genetic dramatic change that has happened. Even if you accept the mainstream view of evolution that mankind is now 300, modern man,

is 300,000 years old. They used to say 200,000. They amped it up to 300,000 and they're going to continue amping it up. I know. Yeah, I think so too. But 300,000 years. So if you go back 300,000, we're not that changed yet.

No.

But I think it's safe to assume that when we have the know-how and the technology to implement it, and man is like this, if we can do it, we do it. Yeah, for sure. Morality doesn't stop us. So yeah, I think it's safe to assume it's going to be something like that. Yeah, and you're right. It has been an accelerating trend.

trend toward a lot of the same craniofacial changes that I mentioned and a lot of that is a feedback loop with culture and these types of manipulations could be an aspect of what continues that acceleration as well but

but I don't know, like, yeah, there could be external factors or it could just be an aspect of the same accelerating trend toward changes. And like I mentioned, the self domestication that tends to increase things faster too. You can take, Oh,

wild mare and breed it into a racehorse within a few generations if you select for the right traits at the right time. So, yeah, we're selecting ourselves. We're also domesticating ourselves. And like you said, we may be genetically manipulating ourselves too, which would only exacerbate that. Whether it's deliberate or not. Now, I think there's good reason. It makes sense because if they're coming back to get something from us,

from our genes, then I too would come before this time we're here in now, that they start in the maybe 50s, 60s, and all the way up to the 90s, 2000s, because they don't want to go too far back, because they want as evolved genes as possible, right? Closest to them, but purest as possible. So it would make sense, all the sense in the world that

60s 70s 80s 90s and even 2000s are being time periods of harvest if something is happening close to where we are now that are polluting the gene pool yeah along that same line it may have something to do with why so many native americans are taken and arguably used as breeding stock there's a number of cases um

Yeah, there's two really great books. Well, three, I guess, but two that I've read by R.D. Sixkiller and Clark. Oh, they're sitting right over here. Something about star people. Where is it? I got them out because I'm working on a new book now. Yeah, because they have it in the lore. All these Indian tribes have a lot of it in the lore. Yeah.

And she does a great job actually interviewing people and a number of different tribes. I think she's based here in Montana where I live. But yeah, her name's Artie Sixkiller Clark and she's focused exclusively on Native American encounters. And there's so many where people are...

are are essentially star people they're hybrids and and they're they're genetic materials taken and that could have something to do with what you're saying too i'm i don't know i'm just speculating but if there is if there are wild type genes you're going to find more of those in ancestral populations especially prior to uh the colombian post-colombian period after colonialism

And we know they are, no wonder the future humans are hairless. Because Amerindians have less hair. So that's interesting. All of our files are free and will remain free. If you like to show, you can show support by donating $1 to help with expenses. Just use the paid link on our webpage. Thanks.

But, Michael, we have to discuss timelines because one of the, you mentioned the grandfather paradox. Now, of course, these are hypotheses, but if we are taking them as real facts, then I'm kind of relieved because it means that all these future humans coming back are not our descendants. Because per definition for them to be able to come back, they automatically create or enter another timeline.

Because, you know, if I go back two days, it's the same principle if I go back 2000 years or two days, I go back two days and I meet myself, that's not going to be possible to interact with myself or kill myself or whatever.

And you know also the butterfly effect. You sneeze here and, you know, a nuclear bomb goes off in China. This is how Cosmos is. Even on a quantum level, we have the, you know, you push the quantum one way and the other follows, no matter if it's the other side of the universe. So timelines...

We have to take that seriously when we entertain time travel. And that means that our real ancestors, descendants, they can't come back here. Now, of course, those who do come back, according to this assertion of mine, you know, it's close enough for them because we're talking the same species. It's just different time. It's not different physicality. It's not different races. It's not different places. Right.

So that means that poor those people who are the, you know, who the grace represent, I'll be happy to give them some DNA material to fix whatever havoc they cause. So I hope like our descendants will prosper and, you know, live in wise communities, peace and love and harmony and decentralization and, you know, in harmony with nature and

where they are controlling technology rather than be controlled by technology. Here's all my biases and opinions coming out. But you understand my drift here. Any comment to this perspective? Yeah, well, one thing I would point out, and unfortunately I read this book two weeks after I published my second book, but it's a book called

called the ultimate time machine by Joe McMonagle, who is the first remote viewer as part of the Stargate program. He was, uh, if any of your viewers have watched stranger things, which the show is largely based off of, he was basically zero zero one. He was the first remote viewer and arguably the best remote viewer in that program. Um, and,

So he wrote this book called The Ultimate Time Machine, and he remote viewed the future. And the reason why I'm remiss about not including it in my second book is somewhere around like page 144, I think it was, when he remote viewed 300 years in the future, he stated that

for lack of a better word, UFOs are time machines and these are our descendants. So that's coming from a very different place and for a very different reason than what I'm arguing, but he's saying the same thing. And more interestingly, and to your point is that he's talking about a very utopian society where prisons are completely reformed. Cities are completely rebuilt in a way that makes more sense and isn't just centered on cars and, uh,

They radiate out and are used for commercial center, kind of what some cities are already doing, I guess. But it really did seem... And we're already doing it up here with prisons, just so you know. Yeah, exactly. Europe's far, far more ahead than

Than we are in the U.S. and mostly because of our car culture that dominated since the 1930s, basically 40s. But yeah, no, that should give you hope that if you do trust the remote viewing of people like Joe McMonagall, he's saying that that type of future is real, that we're going to have that future.

In any case, I'm getting off topic here. In fact, I kind of forgot. Oh, yeah, the grandfather paradox and things like that. So you actually can meet yourself. You can interact with yourself. And it really comes down – and these descendants very well could be our –

You have to explain that model. You understand that, right?

Oh yeah, sorry. I guess that would make sense. Well, tell you what, I'll send you a link of a really good article that explains it well. I'll explain it in brief here, of course, just so we can move on with the conversation. But if your listeners are interested in learning more

about it is the most dominant model to explain space-time among not... I remember where you were going with your reasoning before I... Oh, I will. That's one of a few things that I'm good at is... Keeping threads? ...remembering why I went off on a tangent. Okay, great. My wife's always impressed that I can bring something back to what we were originally talking about. Super. So anyway, the block universe model, again, it's the most conventionally understood model...

to explain space-time among philosophers and physicists and Aspen. So it's not just me saying, oh, well, maybe this is the thing. This is how we understand space-time now. So in the block universe model, and this is the important thing and why it's called the block universe, is

it's seen as every moment within all of space-time with from the beginning of the Big Bang to the very end of the existence of this universe if it does in fact end there's some suggestion that it might just start over and constantly exist and the last bit of matter gets sucked into a black hole and then emitted during the Big Bang and there's just this constant cycle going and

At infinitum, but the idea is that all of those moments that exist as part of this universe exist at the same time. Essentially, they're all there. And you can think of this, if you look forward to the future, it seems like all possibilities, all potential futures are there, that there's all these different routes you can take. But if you look back to the past...

there's only one. There's one history. Now, if you think to the future, what seems like this infinite number of possibilities to people that already live in that future, there's already one past that's already been manifested.

So within that, you can jump around. You can go to the past and you're not changing anything because if you go to the past and interact with yourself in your own life or with regard to this model, you go back and interact with humans that existed 20,000 years in that same past. Because again, there's just one timeline and the block universe. You're not changing anything. You're not making this butter. Yeah, but why didn't I remember it?

Just let me finish real quick, then we'll get to that. You're not changing what you're doing in that past. You're interacting. You're creating what seems like changes, but because those moments already exist in a structured way, all you're doing is going back and fulfilling those obligations. You're doing the things that to you seem like the past, but

But you come back to the future and nothing's changed. Nothing's different because you had just done the same things that you were always going to do in those moments in the block universe. So if you go back and interact with yourself, say, say I'm 45, I go back and interact with my eight year old self. You can guarantee that.

As the eight-year-old self grows up and becomes 45, that he slash me is going to go back in time and visit my eight-year-old self because those two moments in time are connected. You're not changing anything. You're just going back to do the thing that you always had done in those moments.

With that said, the reason, again, I focused on that exclusively for my first book. In my second book, I did discuss the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics and the potential in a quantum universe of differentiation.

different timelines that you don't have coherence, you don't have a collection of the wave function per se, but you have this branch where there can be all of these other possibilities. And there's some issues with that with the second law of thermodynamics, the law of conservation of mass and energy.

But it is a possibility. It's something discussed. So I did discuss that in my second book and, interestingly, what we were just talking about in the context of a cataclysm and whether they would be coming back to change something because you can't have change in the block universe or if they're coming back to warn us about something that they know is coming because they exist in the same timeline. Right. But I still don't understand in the first model that if I go back and interact with myself…

Why don't I remember it? I'm totally with you that there's an eternal now, like the inner midpoint of a circle. And you go back and forth in the different clocks. I go to three o'clock, I go to six o'clock. But if I do that, then I should automatically also alter my past. Then I have to remember it as I'm interacting with myself or something like that.

Yeah, why wouldn't you remember it? I'm quite sure you would. You would certainly remember yourself from the future coming back and interacting with you. What I mean is that today we're talking about it. Now tomorrow I'm going back and meeting my 15-year-old self. But I have no memory before. Like now I have no memory of it. Tomorrow I go and do it.

Why do I have no memory if I say, hey, it's me, it's you from the future? Wouldn't I have that memory of it before I set out in the spaceship, in the time ship to meet myself? Or would I return with that memory? You would return with that memory. Well, are you talking about which version of yourself?

Because you said if there's no timelines, then it's the same version of myself, right? And you would absolutely have that memory. If you went back and visited yourself as an adult at eight, you know that you will go do that because you remember being visited by your older self. So...

Yeah, there's no reason why you wouldn't have a memory of that. And you would actually, in a way, know your future because of the way the block universe works. It's guaranteed that you would go back. So you know in your future you are going to be the one that hops out. You'll look exactly like you remember yourself looking when you approached yourself at age eight because you will have

Turned into that person. You'll absolutely have a memory of that. I think it'll probably be one of your most intense memories. In fact, if anyone is visited by their future self, they would be really hard to forget. Exactly. So that means that the only people who can go out, go off and meet themselves are those who already remember it.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So if I have a time machine here, the universe will refrain me from using it. Like I will get a heart attack before I actually use it to meet myself. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Okay, okay.

No, that's kind of a misconception, is that the universe guides something or prevents something. It's just because the moments are already structured that way in the past. If something didn't happen, it can't happen, because that past already exists in the way it does. Yeah, that I'm with you on. All moments exist the way they do, past, present, and future. So there's never change, but it's not like...

the universe, you know, I think a lot of our brains were ruined by back to the future because it creates this idea. I'm serious. I find myself fighting this constantly and having these conversations because this is the thing we end up talking about the most in these interviews. And I've done over 500 interviews now because people have a misconception about what time is and how it works in the block universe model, which is why I'm looking up this article to send you right now because, um,

This woman does a very, she's a philosopher and philosophers have been talking about time long before physicists. And importantly, you know, physicists don't have exclusive control over our notions of time. And she explains it very, very well in the context of all of these things we're talking about that I've explained somewhat well, but obviously not as well as she does. So here, I just sent that.

Do you want to link it to Donuts? No, you must forgive my... Yeah, you must forgive my slowness because... There we have it. Just to give it a shout-out, it's called...

From September 18, the block universe theory where time travel is possible, but time passing is an illusion. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think I'm on board with that theory. I think I didn't know the name of it, but I recognize the elements. But there's one thing I still don't get and I have to hammer it on. And hopefully you can.

spoon feed me that because I'm being slow now but let's say we have that technology okay you and me we have it today and then we get the idea hey Mike why don't we go back and meet ourselves yeah that's a great idea you say

Now, when we say this, neither you nor me has the memory of having met ourselves. Okay? If we go back and do it, we absolutely have that memory. We remember doing that. So we create that memory by doing it. We create the memory in our younger self by doing it, yes. And then we carry that memory with us the rest of our lives. Okay. So that means that as soon as I meet myself, I remember then, ah, this actually happened. Exactly.

And just somehow I forgot it. Oh, no, you remember the whole time. Your whole life you remember having done that. No, no, I'm not remembering it when I'm sitting with you with a coffee and saying, hey, should we go back in time and meet ourselves? I have no memory of it. You have no memory of it. But we have a time machine. We can do it. If there's the same timeline, we have to explain the memory thing, right? No, not at all. If you go back and do it, if we go back and do it, we're sitting there having coffee and

If we actually do it, if we do go back and meet us, if we met ourselves as babies, of course we wouldn't remember. If we met ourselves, and this happens a lot in UFO encounters, if we meet ourselves and then are made to forget through UFO amnesia or screen memories, we also wouldn't remember that. And a lot of times people's brains are sort of turned on where they're allowed to remember something once they get to an appropriate age that the ontological shock triggers.

is a little bit less to them or they develop a foundation of strangeness that allows them to remember without being disturbed by it. But if we went back and visit ourselves at 15 or 20 years old,

We didn't get drunk and forget it or, you know, we didn't wave a little magic wand in front of ourselves to make ourselves forget. That memory will always be there. It won't be a new memory where we're like, oh, let's go back and visit ourselves. We know we already did that because both of us were aware. We were cognizant. We weren't on drugs. We weren't babies. That memory is in there.

Okay, but then, but it still doesn't make sense because why didn't we have that memory before we decided to do it? Well, you're imposing that on the situation. Yeah. You're making a situation in which we think of this as a new idea. And that's the part that is incorrect. If we did it

We have a memory of it from us being younger, unless there was some extraneous factor that caused us to forget. It's not a new idea. You're creating this hypothetical scenario where it's a new idea. That's not how it would be. That would be a memory, not a new idea in the block universe. Right.

Well, I suppose because even if it's a simple thing in the whole complex theory, it has to be accounted for. But I don't discount, for example, that there are some natural protections to maintain the consistency of the universe.

That's an old school thought, of course. I'm not saying the universe... Yeah, Stephen Hawking proposed that chronology protection conjecture. Yeah, so that instead of it physically like departing to timelines, instead it's doing something with the consciousness like we didn't remember it as soon as we did it, then that memory is accessible to us, like that kind of protection. And I didn't even think of what you said, that it's true, time-lapse protection.

And memory and yeah, memory holes are so common in UFOs. Yeah, they are. Yeah. And some people this there's a case in John Mack's book, Abduction, Chapter six, I think it is or chapter three, where this this boy was taken around puberty. I think he was in high school, maybe, but he was young and.

Yeah.

Where information is put there and then it's set to be turned on at a specific time for a specific reason. Now, that is also interesting because they're made to forget in the moment with the knowledge that they will eventually remember. And yeah, so it just indicates that there are a lot of aspects of memory that come into play.

A lot of kids aren't allowed to remember at first because it's too traumatic. But then in adulthood, there's another case in that book, the case of Jerry, another case, Linda Jones. I talk about both of those in my second book where she was made to forget until a certain time. And then all of these memories of past abductions, having eggs extracted, came flooding back. Yeah.

So, yeah, they definitely manipulate our perception and are able to, which is kind of an incredible thing if you think about it. Yeah, absolutely. So, okay, you saved the time thing from my dissection. So that's well done. But they always talk about killing your grandfather because that has to be accounted for too. What if I go back and kill myself? How can we be on the same timeline?

If you didn't kill yourself, if you're alive, then you can't do it. It's just not in the past. It's not an aspect of those moments that exist in the block universe. And that's the hardest part for people. I get this question all the time. And again, I would encourage them to read that article I just linked because it explains that issue very, very well.

Okay. Yeah, I guess I have to do that. But I mean, it is the classical thing to kill your grandfather. And yeah, I get I can't do it. But that means either there is no free will or there is some kind of protection mechanism from because because like I said, if we can do it, we do it as human beings. I'm sure. I mean, some people suicide themselves in the now.

I'm sure there's some crazy people if they had access to time machine, they would go back and kill themselves. Yeah. And wouldn't that destroy the whole goddamn universe? Yeah, if it was possible. I'm sure people would do that.

And again, in the many worlds interpretation, that is possible. But that's not what people think is happening. Again, the block universe, at least for now, again, we don't know exactly what time is or how it works or what is fundamental that time emerges from. But based on our current knowledge and the model that works the best with space-time as we know it, the block universe persists. And in the block universe, you can't change the past. No. Okay. Well, I know you're...

fed up by this question so uh i'm trying not to sound fed up but i'm sorry no no you don't sound it it's just i've been i've been having this conversation for five years and it's it's hard because you know you're not alone people just don't think about time um and as and most people aren't aware of the block universe model for time so it's it's starting over with so many people and

Yeah, it's not that I get frustrated per se. It's just I feel like there's… It's not the most inspirational part of your interviews. I get that. But do you address it in your books? Oh, my God, yeah, so much. That's one of the main things I talk about because you have to. With a theory about time travel, you have to go through and address these perceived paradoxes, the bootstrap paradoxes.

Again, it's not a paradox, but the bootstrap situation is another one of these where if you go back and meet yourself and give yourself some information in the past and then use that information throughout the future and then go back and give yourself that information in the past again, you create this closed time-like loop. ♪

because that came crashing into our time and we reverse engineered it. However, the people in our future didn't create it either because took the reverse engineering process of their ancestors to figure out how this thing worked. It's not a paradox. It doesn't need to have a creator. We're just used to thinking that because we have this bias linear one dimensional reference for time. But with the time machine, you can have a future cause and a past effect and

And you can have things with no cause and effect or no creator as we would conceptualize them because time can work in reverse. Yeah. The real evolution or linear time is not physical, it's consciousness. Because if I, whatever I go and do and all these paradoxes, in the moment I am in at any given time,

I have behind me experiences. That's a consciousness thing. Yeah. So, so if I go back in, in the past, that is my now, right? If I go in, even if I go into the future, that is my now. And then, then I go back and then my future self,

Yeah, so if I'm ahead of my future self, I'm still in the past of my consciousness. I'm having a hard time explaining this. No, I know exactly what you mean. And the precognition I've experienced my whole life is a good example of that. I used to just sit on a plane or in a car and be like, okay, now is now. But now is...

Kind of always now, like you're saying, it's just in these physical bodies we experience it at specific times and it does move in a path to forward direction.

Future direction, unless we get in a time machine. But even at that point, as we're traveling back through all of these different global nows for everyone else, we're still experiencing a localized me in this body now that's still going forward in time. You're just moving into the global past.

Yeah, exactly. But with the precognition I have, you know, those future moments are there. I get glimpses of them. I see them. So that's my now and the future for that me in that body at that time. But I'm still given a glimpse of it in this past me through this dream precognitive state. I'm going to inquire more about that. But first, what about the future? The past, yeah, we get that. But do you think then equally we can go to the future?

Oh, yeah, I'm sure. That's actually, you know, there's some debate, although it's getting to be less of a debate, about whether time travel to the past is possible. I cite two articles in my first book by Ehrman et al., who did a vast literature review of all the pro and cons

anti-backward time travel literature and found that there's nothing in the laws of physics or philosophy that prohibits time travel to the past. But time travel to the future is easy. We do that all the time.

a few sat at the edge of a black hole like you said or even get on an airplane or orbit uh the earth in the international space station for a year you will have traveled into the future just because of special and general relativity so i mean we have traveling into the future right now both of us well yes well collectively but again because space and time is relative it's

Relative to who or what is what we always have to ask so relative to those in a rest frame and again Earth's not in a rest frame It's moving at a very high rate of speed and the gravity of Earth still creates gravitational space-time warpage through general relativity But if you're in the space station relative to those on earth you are traveling into the future Like if the universe wasn't permanent and

and would cease to exist, then that would be a huge paradox. If you travel to after it ceases to exist, that wouldn't be possible, right? Actually, the same with the past. If you go back to before the Big Bang, there's no time and space for you to operate in. Is this solved by the... Yeah, but what would be the physical mechanism with which you travel in a universe that doesn't exist? I think that's...

I think it's more the hypothetical is paradoxical rather than it being something that you could actually do.

Yeah, I mean, if we have a time travel capability that is unlimited, I mean, we have to account for these extreme scenarios. There's actually a scenario where they represented that in a really funny episode of a TV show called Futurama. And they advocated for the same thing I just said, where they go so far into the future that they...

go beyond the last bit of matter disappearing. And it begins over again, doesn't it? And then what happens? Yeah, it begins over again. And they live the exact same past, present, future. They have to do it again because I think Bender...

hit the control knob so they had to take it around again as they said in the episode but yeah so they actually I mean it's a comical show but they did have writers with 50 years experience and graduate and postgraduate school at Harvard who were writers for that show so it's usually pretty spot on with regard to the physics and the philosophy and anthropology of the show. Yeah I mean it doesn't matter if it's presented in

comedy or not the principle is there yeah and it was based on scientific principles it's funny because yeah they address that exact question about what if you time travel to a time when the universe doesn't exist and that's exactly what they did in that episode must be funny to be you know how creative they're sitting there the writers in the room with their coffees and

You know, what can we do today? What if this? What if that? Right? Oh, man, I dream about that. I would absolutely love that job. And especially with that medium. Like if that show was a sitcom and they had to exist in this physical reality, it would have been horrible. But because it's a cartoon and they can depict whatever they want, however they want, it really gave them the freedom to do that.

Yeah, creative work is fun. Absolutely. And they don't have to be like so meticulous and anal as you have to be as a scientist, which you know, right? Yeah, for sure. That's why my third book was a science fiction book. I could kind of take the chains off. I still brought in the science. It's a hard science fiction book that's still based on these same principles discussed in the first two, but in the context of a satirical technology

time travel story which allowed a lot more freedom to explore these ideas much like Futurama right I wasn't I didn't realize one of them was a science fiction we'll soon go to them but yeah no problem what happened with you man first of all you said you had these precognition dreams fine I don't assume automatically that you've had some encounter to have that but that happens too so you wanna are you comfortable by maybe you talk about in your books but are you comfortable about talking about your own

Only recently. Yeah, it happened about a year and a half ago. And it was only about half a year ago that I was willing to talk about it publicly. And the first time was in a documentary, a guy named Jesse Michaels, who did a whole documentary about this idea. And he already knew about this contact experience. And I had a feeling he would want to talk about it. So I worked up the courage to be able to do so online.

Which was hard. You know, it's really hard to talk about these things when they happen to you and they shake your world and your sense of reality and just place in the universe. And so I really struggled that week before I went down to L.A. to film this talk with them. But I decided, you know, it was time and these others came.

They allowed me to ask a number of questions before they did what they came to do. And one of the first questions I asked, or the second question, I think, was, can I talk about this? Because it was a very, very odd, paranormal interaction that involved telepathic communication. They blacked out my eyes and injected things into my brain, which is how this came up, somewhat serendipitously, because...

they did the same thing where they told me I wouldn't have access to this information, but there were three things they needed to put in my brain for some future times and that these things would come out when they were supposed to. So kind of this,

time release information situation and and they were very polite they asked me if i agreed to this and after everything else that had been happening leading up to that i realized that not only can i trust them but in some way or another i've been interacting with them my entire life wait a minute so so the remembrance came back uh a few years ago not the episode happened a few years ago

Um, no. So the three things that they put in my brain, again, I don't know what they are, but I got the sense that there was some urgency related to it. And I think it has something to do with whatever this impending shift or cataclysm is. So that's still locked away. I don't have access to it. I don't know what it is. And they told me that. They told me I wouldn't. And I agreed.

And it was fine. And they told me what would happen, that they'd black out my eyes. And then I would sort of feel or see this information coming in. And that's exactly what happened. My eyes went black. How old were you when it happened? Oh, it was just a couple years ago. No, no, I mean, not the memory coming, but the encounter. That's what I'm talking about. The memories, what they put in my brain haven't come out yet. This all just happened about two years ago.

And I had never had any sort of paranormal encounter. I did see some UFOs shortly before this happened. But no, this was just a couple years ago. It was October 14th, 2022. So the things they put in there are still locked away. But I was fully conscious. I was fully aware of all of these things that were happening when they were happening. Because it was just very recent, in fact.

Yeah, but I think it was a good choice to go to you since you have been interested in these things, right? You wrote your books before this, didn't you? Yeah, and that's a big part of why they showed up, as it turns out. It was something of an intervention because I decided I didn't want to do it anymore. And that's the very first thing they said. And one of the main reasons why I knew this was not a normal experience and that I was speaking to...

These others, they were speaking through two people, somewhat exceptional people that were sort of channeling these others. But it was...

Because I was quitting. And the reason, like I said, the reason I knew it was something extraordinary was happening is because I didn't tell anybody that I was wanting to quit. I was just going to go to this last conference that's happened in Phoenix at a conference in 2022. But I went there thinking this is my last conference. I don't want to do this anymore. I was so sick of TV interviews and documentary shoots and conferences and traveling. So I just thought in my head, I'm

I'm not going to do this anymore after this conference. And they showed up and the very first thing they said was, we know you've been thinking about quitting lately and we'd really prefer you didn't do that yet. Wow, sounds like they're monitoring you. They knew my thoughts. They knew my thoughts. So what kind of beings were these? Oh, these were just people. These were people that were being used to

They basically, I think the best way to understand it is that these two people, a man and a woman, their brains were taken over by these others. I don't know what it was. They alluded to being future humans, but I can't definitively say that. Um, so I just, I refer to as a highly advanced non-local consciousness, um, because they, they had the ability to,

take over people's entire bodies and minds. They did that twice with the man, once on the balcony of this hotel that night at the conference, and then once the next morning when I was really struggling physiologically. I had this intense crying response. I couldn't stop crying the whole next day, but I had an important panel to be on and had to finish the conference, for God's sakes, without just being a mess of people.

I don't think it was fully emotions. I think it was just a physical response. But he showed up. He wasn't even part of this conference. But he knew exactly, they, I should say they, they knew exactly where I was going to be the next morning. This same man from the night before whose mind they took over, they did it again, made him appear at a place in this hallway of this large convention center where they knew I would be and then took that picture

They took that response away so that I could finish the rest of the conference. Once I got home, all of that came back and I was really screwed up for about three weeks after this interaction because it was just so...

beyond the scope of my reality that it was really hard to process. Yeah. It's gotten better now, but yeah, for the, at least. It makes what I told you earlier, peanuts to process. I mean. Yeah. Yeah. But no, you have to, you have to question if I'm trying to put myself in your shoes. The first thing I would do was to look for these people to see if they remember anything.

Oh, they do. Yeah, I know them. I knew one of them already. She was, I met her briefly. I wouldn't say I know her well. But what's interesting is she only knew this man a little bit. They had never actually met in person. But they took over both of their minds at the same time and made him come up there to this room that nobody else was in to do this thing.

But that was the first time they had met in person. I didn't know this person. I'd never met him. And he shows up and tells me something that was only in my mind. Like that's really going to make you pay attention. This complete stranger suddenly says, I know one of your most intimate thoughts that you just had last week.

Let's have a conversation. And it was a conversation. Even before they blacked me out and started putting this information in there, I was allowed to ask questions. We had a whole conversation. About halfway through, it turned entirely telepathic. So this man and the woman who's standing next to me, he was sitting about eight inches from my face and said they needed to be that close for this whole thing to work.

Which was quite jarring at first to start with, even before he told me my personal thoughts. Yeah, close talkers. Yeah. But yeah, they allowed me to ask questions. I could have asked anything. I could have asked, you know, how did the universe start? Is there a God? I didn't. Tell me what you did ask. It's a little personal. Oh, you went there. Okay. I talk about one of the questions is...

in that documentary i'll send you a link to that documentary too okay anybody wants the full story but these these were two people they i had a i did an interview i can link this too they interviewed me or we it wasn't so much an interview as we just talked about what that was what they remember how it all happened and and by the end of this because we were in this room and

It was a shared space where there was a party earlier and then everybody left and then I was taken back to that room and then slowly everybody started coming back in. And by the time this was done, there's probably about 15 or 20 people in that room.

watching this and they had different perceptions of what oh so it wasn't a private event it was semi-public it was a very public conference and that was the room where all of the booze was basically so as the party was wrapping up downstairs in the convention hall

started trickling up there for the after party. So it was us three on the balcony having kind of this hive mind telepathic conversation. And then slowly all of these people started filling up that room and could see us out

out on the belt. Wow. And they had to hear you? No, no, no, no. Oh, okay. Okay. So you were still private. No, the door was closed. At one point, three women came out because they were worried about me. Like, what's going on out there? Why are these people just staring at each other? And whoever, whatever this was that was controlling my mind eventually before they took over my mind too, can you close the door behind you? And all three of these women at the same time turned, walked back inside and closed the door.

In a way that wasn't just them saying, oh, okay, their minds were being controlled too. So whatever this is, is a very powerful, highly evolved consciousness that's capable of

using certain people's minds manipulating people's minds manipulating their memories But also putting things in my brain to be released at a future time Which still completely blows my mind that that's even possible in the first have you tried hypnotherapy to unblock it? I don't know they locked it away for a reason and I don't want to see you try you you fully trust first. Okay, I do Yeah

And they gave me the option. If I didn't trust them, I could have said no. But they asked me if this was okay. Like I said, I realized. Okay. Now I get it. So you remember those parts so you know it was. I remember all of it. I remember all of it. Yeah, except the memories they put into you. Except that. Yeah. That was the only thing they locked away. And like I said, they asked for my permission to do that, explained exactly what the process would be like. And then, yeah, they did.

exactly what they said. Well, it's interesting. It's, you know, you are a scientist and you're also an author. So if they want...

some of this information out there that would have to do with people like you. But now we are coming into a phenomenon of, I didn't think we were going to discuss that today, but we're coming into an aspect of UFOs which is very murky and very meta and which has been like Jack Vallee's domain. Some people like that, right? Messengers of deception. There's so many paradoxes. Why are they, you know, why wouldn't they do this with the president? Right.

It's the classical question. Why do they always find these local people? I mean, you're an exception because you have two things going for you. But most often they are taking people that have little to no consequence.

And they go ahead and create sex.

And I was like, you know, it doesn't even matter. I'm just going to these conferences saying blah, blah, blah, writing a couple books, going on TV. And the only time I saw them sort of show any kind of frustration was when I said that. Because at the same time, and this kind of got in my head too, the exact same time that woman to my left turned and they said in this perfect cadence, almost like they were speaking through the same voice,

no, this is important. And that freaked me the fuck out, to be honest. Yeah, it does indicate that the two most likely things with you is, well, there are three things. Number one, you're a scientist, that matters. Two, you're a published author and speaker and all that, that matters.

And maybe also the third element can matter, and that's your precognition dreams. Have you had them before this encounter? Oh, my whole life, yeah, since I was a kid. Right, yeah. So that's one of the... Because these three things, it doesn't matter that you're a male, right? That's half the population. No, not at all. It doesn't matter that you're white, right? No. Et cetera, et cetera. These three things are highly individual for you.

Especially. Yeah. And there's nothing special about me or my brain or my mind or anything. I seemingly am useful for something. Exactly. And open enough. My brain is open enough that they could do this. Yeah.

Um, is the president's mind open enough that it could receive this information that shut me down? Like it hurt. It shut me down. My brain felt so heavy after this. One thing I didn't mention is I went straight back to my room, which was fortunately just four doors down in a zombie like state laid down on the bed with my feet still on the floor and slept in that position for almost 14 hours.

Yeah, right. It messed with my brain. They put something physically in my brain. So yeah, that might be a factor to include too. But there's nothing special about me as a person or whatever. I'm just doing something that is clearly of use to them, whoever they are and for whatever reason that might be. Yeah.

No, but I think, no, not exceptional. I mean, there's many people who have these things, but I'm trying to think like a scientist. Why would they contact you, right?

And yeah, you're open. I would say that the president isn't present in his own mind, so it would be futile. It would be futile. But most presidents probably aren't. Yeah, yeah. Good point. But you're open. But I do think it matters that you have been researching these things and that you have like like now you're talking about it with me. Right. So you have a way to get it out.

And yeah, so we have to look at those kind of factors. But tell me this then, I would remiss not poking more into this while I have you here. What did you ask them that's not personal that they could answer and you could remember? Well, one of the main things and the first ones that I asked and one of the reasons is

I had been wanting to not do this anymore. It wasn't just the travel, but it was like leaving my family behind and, you know, subjecting not just myself, but potentially them to dangerous people, dangerous situations, whatever might be coming on my mind lately. So even before this happened, about...

March, April, May, June, July, August, about five months before this happened. I talk about this a little bit in the documentary is I felt like I was having already a telepathic conversation through this very large light in my neighbor's yard, like a security light that lights up the whole canyon that I live in.

And the next morning I just kind of wrote it off. But part of the conversation that was had in that moment was about these concerns because I was just about to go to Rice University for this event called Opening the Archives of the Impossible.

Put on by Jeffrey Kripal with, I mean, Jacques Vallée was there, Whitley Streber, Diana Pasolka, Leslie Kane, all of these notable people. Russell Targ, the Remote Viewer Program, Edwin May, who ran the Stargate Program. So it was this really impactful event, but I was struggling with

the, the, the dangers, the fears, fear for my family. So I asked if, if they would be safe and it was kind of a personal thing and I was assured, yes, they will be. And I said, okay, cool. So again, feeling a lot of these same sentiments, the next morning I wrote this all off as being in my head because it was easy to do that as opposed to, Oh, you were having a telepathic conversation with,

With some unknown cognition through a light in your neighbor's yard. That's why I would try to find these people to see if they remembered anything. Well, I did and they do. And yes, all of those things did happen. Didn't they freak out, by the way? To some extent. Yeah, we can come back to that if you want. But let me finish this part because it's relevant. That night when I was having this conversation via this light, that was only me.

There was no one else there. It was just me. So, you know, harder to validate, also easier to just ignore as being something in my head. So the first question, to get back to your question, the first question I asked them when they pulled up this chair right in front of my face and there were two of them present and they were communicating through these people, I said, will my family be safe? When they asked if I had any questions.

Because again, I was allowed to ask anything I wanted, essentially. And the first thing I asked is, will my family be safe? And what they said was, we already talked about this before the conference at Rice University. And again, I had written that off as just being in my head. It wasn't. That was a real conversation happening telepathically with these same others, importantly, with these same others, but now who had manifested...

In a physical form through these two individuals. So that sort of added to the reality, unfortunately also the shock of what was happening, that they not only rolled up and knew a thought that I had told nobody, that was just in my head, but they also referenced specifically a telepathic conversation I had had with them previously that I had chose to ignore and write off as being a figment of my imagination. Yeah.

So you basically ask them personal stuff, not like life and death existential stuff? Yeah. I know, isn't that funny? Well, it's kind of frustrating for all of us, isn't it? Well, yeah. I mean, I guess there's... But I don't blame you. It's natural. No. And I, you know, there's other reasons for that beyond just

you know, this thing. But one thing I did ask is, can I talk about this? And specifically they said, we want you to talk about this, but it messed me up so bad that it took a year before I even could. And that's why I really struggled before I went down to LA to film with Jesse Michaels, because I, I,

Just didn't know if I could. Like, it's really putting yourself out there. And there was a reaction. It's a very vulnerable thing. Yeah. And there were a lot of people that lashed out at me because we fear what we don't understand. Yeah. And people don't understand that. I don't understand it. No. You know, I feared it for a while. I didn't know what the hell was going on. But people lashed out at me personally because of this reaction.

Situation that I didn't ask for you know, I did not ask for this to happen it just happened for whatever reason and Who knows we kind of touched on some potential reasons maybe but yeah It's a very vulnerable thing to talk about this and then not long after his documentary came out I gave a talk in New York City at something called inquiry into anomalous events and

And talked about it in a room full of people for the first time, which was also hard. But it's a room full of experiencers. So it was easy in that respect because it was a conference for experiencers with a lot of notable people who aren't experiencers who are interested in this. Leslie Kane was there too and Diana Pasolka. Yeah.

A number of others. But that was the first time I talked about it in a room full of people. And then the very next day, I went on Coast to Coast AM with George Schnapp and talked about it there for the first time in front of a very large audience. I mean, Jesse Michaels' doco had over 700,000 views, but obviously Coast to Coast AM has a broader reach and

Yeah, I don't know. It's weird. I'm still trying to figure it out. I know they used to be huge back in the day. Are they still, like, huge? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's something like 7 to 10 million viewers each show. Coast to coast? Yeah. Wow, okay.

Well, you know, I was going to ask you one of the pre-planned questions was, has it been hard as a scientist to, you know, write about these things? How is the overtone window? Are they taking it seriously or is it because not everybody? I mean, Jacques Vallée is very respected, but it is, you know, we're talking about the slowest kind of paradigm shift ever.

group of people, right? Yeah, painfully slow. Yeah, so, but this adds, this is out of the left field. I mean, this makes your research look like peanuts.

Because there's so many people who are not going to take this seriously. They're not going to, I mean, even if they believe you, they're going to write it off as psychosis or something. Hang on, hang on. This is why it's so important that, that's why I asked you about these two other people. Because if they, because it can't be written off as anything. That's why they did it. That's why they did it. That's why they showed up.

Yeah.

And then later, once I felt comfortable telling the story, we're like, oh shit, I was there. There's people that can back this up. Me talking to a light in my neighbor's yard, yeah, that could be psychosis. I don't have any symptoms of psychosis or schizophrenia or anything like that, but there's nobody else involved. Then it becomes a belief system. Do I believe him? It's a little different when other people

people, physical people were sent to be involved in this and a room full of people watched it happen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's so exciting because in your case, if I should choose, I would rather be in your shoes than have something take over me. I think I would freak more out from that. And it certainly gives a new perspective to the phenomenon, the classical traditional phenomenon of possession.

I mean, that makes this whole concept very interesting. So those two people that did... So what did they remember? I mean, certainly they cannot have remembered the information they put into your head, but did they remember being taken over? Did they remember having the conversation? What did they say about their perspective of this? Yeah, one of them did a lot. The other one didn't much.

And, and I looked this up, I've researched this a good bit cause I've been trying to figure it out myself. It's very, very strange. Weirdest thing that's ever happened to me. Yeah. Um, and there's something called, uh, trans mediumship and there's different levels of it. There's sort of surface level trans mediumship and then deep trans mediumship where you as a conscious agent in your own body are basically removed from the

the perception of what's going on around you in the deepest form of this. But there's other levels too. So the woman to my left, you know, when I was really struggling, I didn't talk to her even though I knew her and I had her contact information. We're friends on Instagram. I didn't contact her because I was

I didn't know who this other guy was. He was a complete stranger, but I did know her. But I was really struggling with whether I could talk about it in this documentary. So I reached out to her and I said, hey, do you remember when they, whoever they is, said they want me to talk about this? Did you get a sense of like when that is in time? Because I think I'm supposed to talk about it soon and I'm kind of freaking out about it. And

That's when I learned that she had very little memory of what happened that night. She remembered being there and she kept me there. That's something we didn't talk about, but she kept me there because she or they knew that this was about to happen.

And I couldn't figure out why she wouldn't let me leave this room. But she doesn't like her brain was taken over all the way downstairs before she even took me up to this room. He, on the other hand, who is the one that really led most of this, his name's Eric Mitchell. You can look him up. He, his whole brain was changed because he was pinned down by a UFO, which saved his life. He was,

after, well, mostly after that because it really messed with him a lot and someone in the MUFON organization saved his life and

Anyway, that's a whole side story. But he, I didn't know him, didn't even know how to contact him or if he was even a real person. It was so jarring that I didn't know. Maybe he's a future human. Maybe he came back in time. I had no idea. But he remembers most of it. He doesn't remember all the specifics of what was said. He doesn't. They also hid from him what they put in my brain. But he remembers a

lot of aspects of the conversation whereas she doesn't But they were they were both operating as one entity Once the conversation turned telepathic

They became sort of one, and at times I did two with them during these conversations that were taking place telepathically. We sort of entered a collective consciousness space almost. Again, it's hard to know what words to put to this because it's so outside of our normal everyday life.

Of course. So I try my best with the verbiage, but it's hard. You're doing good. You're doing good. Go on. I consider it, yeah, I consider it some sort of like hive mind, collective consciousness sort of form of communication. All telepathic, but it wasn't just one brain to one brain. All three of us were sort of in a shared space, so to speak.

See, this is why I'm fearing one of the potential futures, namely the great thing, because they are also described as hive mind. And that's where the transhumanism movement wants to push us. They think it's a good thing. We're all going to be connected to kind of an internet, intranet and blah, blah, blah. So I don't know about that, man. Well, I experienced it. It's true. It does exist.

I don't really know what to make of it or what that means for our future, but it's real. Okay, so your precognition dreams, you want to tell us a little about that? Because we do explore consciousness and these things in this show too. You've had it all your life, you say.

So what can you tell us about it? I mean, it's pretty boring, to be honest. It's never anything exciting. It's never lottery numbers or anything like that. It's just...

pretty banal everyday experiences but it involves people who I eventually know so in that sense it's kind of cool that I knew my wife before I met her I knew my kids before they were born and I remembered things from those futures just you know playing baseball in the yard or just standing outside talking or

Just little things that really have no significance. They don't give me any insight or information, but once they happen, I remember the exact dream. And sometimes after the dream, I'll be like, oh, that's definitely a real memory, a real future memory, as I call them.

It has happened. Something that's a little more interesting is that about five different times I've had conscious precognition where I know something's about to happen and then it does. But those are pretty rare. It's about one handful of times that that's happened. But the dream precognition happens pretty regularly and has for my entire life.

So do you do any exercises like go through your day and clean your mind? Because they talk about, you know, many dreams are polluted by the fragments of the day being processed. So do you have any particular instinctively or educationally techniques that you've methods that you implemented in terms of going to bed and what you put your mind to before you, you know, or is it just something that comes no matter what?

Yeah, no, I don't. I just kind of raw dog reality. I probably shouldn't as much because there's that's probably a waste of a lot of these types of things. I could be using it or learning from it. And I started to recently with something that's completely different. But I do. I did start meditating between about three and five a.m. and using that time to connect to.

and energy and knowledge that exists beyond this limiting physical reality. But I see that as completely different. That's a recent thing that's only started happening since my contact experience in Phoenix. But as far as the precognition, it's just, I've lucid dreamed a few times, but I think that's maybe unrelated. It just, it happens. And then I'm like, Oh, Hey, we already did this. And sometimes I know what's about to be said or done and,

Because I remember the dream well enough. But again, it's always the most benign events. It's never anything interesting or impactful. No, but the phenomenon itself is interesting. It is, yeah. But again, it's happened to me my entire cognizant life. So it's very normal. And I don't even think of it as interesting anymore. No.

And there's many people who has this, so it's not rather rare. Yeah, exactly. No, it's not unique. No, what, you know, we would have wrapped up by now if it wasn't for these bumps you dropped. Yeah, sorry. I wasn't planning on talking about that. It just kind of came up. But it's on me because I didn't research you properly, right? You knew on my radar. So had I known all these things, I could have prepared better for it.

I mean, maybe it's better that way, too, just having an organic conversation with off-the-cuff questions. Because I don't have prepared answers. I don't know. I don't know what this is. It's all pretty recent for me, and I've only started talking about it with other people.

in these types of conversations recently. So I'm trying to figure it all out too. So maybe it's better. Yeah, I'm honored that my show then would be early out to get you on the record for this. And I do think, look, this precognition stuff you have is tapping into the future. And that dovetails with one school of philosophy that say that physically we cannot move in time.

But consciousness can move in time. Oh, yeah, it's timeless. I mean, memory is actually going in the past. And precognition is going in the future. So, yeah. So that's one aspect. And it's interesting that it's with you, right? Because maybe this also plays into the whole thing. Because I said you're a scientist, you're an author. And I do think maybe this precognition thing could be a part of why you had this experience. Again, not completely unique, but still interesting.

enough for the average person not to have it, right? Yeah, and for them to be mad at me that I'm talking about it. Mad at you, and probably... That was something I didn't expect. I knew it would be hard. I didn't know that that part of it would trigger people so much. I'd really love to know more about that because it's interesting. That's ABC psychology, isn't it?

I mean, this is... People hear what they don't understand. Exactly. Sometimes people don't want to hear the truth because they don't want their illusion destroyed. Exactly. And if people have the illusion that things like this are impossible...

And they're forced to think about it as a real possibility that people's minds can be taken over and telepathic communication exists. Then it destroys illusions. It destroyed my illusion of reality. It destroyed my illusion of ego and a sense of self. It's really transformational. Yeah. But I have one last question and we'll wrap it up here. So how did you talk about the illusions of what exists and doesn't exist?

When you started writing or researching UFOs, I mean, you come from academia, so it's not a natural step. What made you go into that? Why were you open to that? Oh, no, it was UFOs. The UFOs is the reason I got into biological anthropology, not the other way around. It was the other way around. Yeah. Right. Largely because of that...

moment of conscious precognition as I consider it. It could have been something else, but that happened when I was nine when I saw Whitley Strieber's book that I mentioned at the start of the show. That's what brought me down this road. Yeah, okay. That makes sense. Okay, your books, man. There's three of them. If you could give them in chronological sequence and a quickie about what they are each about. Yeah, I guess I've referenced...

each of them very briefly at different points in the show, because they are relevant to what we've been talking about, of course. But the first one published in 2019 is really just laying a very grounded scientific,

for this theory focused on multiple disciplines. So obviously anthropology, but also physics, philosophy, astrobiology, and astronomy. Not really saying why

The extraterrestrial hypothesis isn't valid because it very well could be a part of this. These aren't mutually exclusive, but just pointing out some important problems with it and then making a case for why we should consider this time travel theory based on evolution, evolution of technology, and just what we know about the universe at this point in time.

Again, it mostly focuses on long-term evolutionary changes, but also racial, geographic racial differences, modern human variation, things like that. The second book that I published in 2022 sort of flips the script. The first one didn't talk about abductions or contact experiences much. It was more about the science with a little bit of discussion of UFOs

Mm-hmm.

And people find it to be a little more readable. It's less dense. It's less hard science. It brings the science in, but in the context of a relatable story. So it's like listening to stories. And it's kind of become the more popular book because of that. I always encourage people with a scientific background to read the first one. And it's readable to people without that too. But it's easier to just read it if you have some knowledge of various scientific disciplines.

And then the third book, like I mentioned, is a satirical, hard science fiction novel that brings in the science again, but in the form of a highly satirical, somewhat crass sex drugs and UFOs capacity. The story itself is pretty wild. A lot of sex. One of the main characters is an intertemporal sex researcher.

And then one of the guys... Intertemporal. Oh, my God. What a great concept. Go on. Yeah. It was a fun one to write. And then the guy she picks up is kind of a delusional, apocalyptic, alcoholic, druggie. I don't know. They have some fun traveling through time together and studying the past. Oh, I should mention it's also highly heretical. So if people...

Really have strong religious beliefs or easily offended. Please don't read it It's not for you. It's for a different target demographic but people

Who are a little more open-minded and less easily offended have really enjoyed it. So it's a very different book than the first two, but also brings in a lot of the same concepts. And you are putting in real science and stuff like that. Yeah, it explores the same idea just like the other two, but does it in a very different way.

And here, there, I just remember one other paradox that we didn't mention. We just mentioned it briefly now at the end. Let's say you go back in time and you have sex with a woman and that becomes your ancestor, if you see what I mean. But that's the loop. I think that's the loop you mentioned. It's just a loop. It's a self-consistent loop. There's no paradox. It's like the Roswell thing. Yeah. And if you enjoy that

potentiality, read the third book. It's mostly about that. I see, I see. Great. In a very funny way that I can't give away because it's sort of the main plot twist. Yeah, yeah, sure. But I have some fun with that idea. Let's just say that. Are you aware of Graham Hancock's book about, he writes about this ancient tribe, Neanderthals or something, and a modern woman is in contact with

her back. This is true consciousness. You're using time machine. This is true. But whatever happens back then has influence in the presence. Are you aware of that book? I'm aware of Graham Hancock, but no, I don't know that book. I think you would enjoy it. It seems like you're both tapping into a similar strata of philosophy. Now, this sounds very interesting and exciting, Michael. I'm so happy we got you on. Your website is

Yeah, it's just MichaelPMasters.com. And there's links to the books. I'm not sure how it works in Scandinavia. I think they are available up there. But yeah, MichaelPMasters.com. And I haven't really been updating interviews and events because it just got to be too much work. But there are still links to kind of the main...

synopses of the books and links to the books and things like that. So it's still a useful site if people are interested in learning more.

But the advantage we have here in Scandinavia is that when we order books from Amazon or abroad or whatever, there's no tax. There's no VAT. There's no customs. Oh, that's great. Yeah. They want us to be smart, right? And they realize we can't just read Norwegian books. That's awesome. That's so cool. I'm really happy to hear that. Yeah, yeah. Otherwise, we tax to death up here. Yeah, well. But that's a decent exception. It's not much better when you go the opposite direction because you don't have health care. Yeah.

Pick your poison, I guess is what I'm saying. No, absolutely we have healthcare. Yeah, and that's part of what the high taxation rates do. Yeah, it's like Bernie Sanders' paradise, right? But okay, so that's the website, it's the books. Do you do any podcasts? Anything else you want to give a shout out for when I have you here? Yeah, I don't know. I guess I've just been...

Yeah, writing books, doing shows, talking to folks. I have been working on some academic articles with some fellow researchers and

and in the US too. And there's one coming out about crypto terrestrials pretty soon. And we've got about two or three other papers in the mix. So yeah, I guess folks could keep an eye out for those too. It's very academic. They're peer reviewed journal articles. But that definitely adds another element to the conversation, I think. The crypto terrestrial, that's those who are among us now? Yeah, I think

Yeah, that's a part of it. It's sort of a version of the ultra terrestrial hypothesis that they may be living underground or they're living, you know, on underwater on a moon base and they very well could be future humans that came back to Earth.

these times and can blend in because they are us and living amongst us in that capacity there's a lot to explore they're probably a little late in the conversation to bring this up but it explores all those potentialities and a pretty big it's like a 75 page paper academic articles so

There's a preprint of it available on my colleague's ResearchGate page, but it's going to be – it's expanded slightly and will come out in an actual journal article soon. So I'll let you know when that happens if you want to alert your listeners. Absolutely.

But I kind of think they're idiots coming back, living here now. If I had a time machine, I would, there's so many. I would go back to Jesus, first of all. I would see if he was crucified or not. I would go back to Pythagoras. You're going to like my third book. Oh, right. That may or may not be an aspect of the storyline. That's so great, man.

Okay. It was fun to talk with you. You too. Yeah. I'm glad we did this. So we will stay in touch. Just be patient. It's going to take a long time for this show to get come out to the public, unfortunately.

Yeah, that's what you said in the show notes. I'm used to that in some cases. I did an interview with a really very well-known woman in Russia, a journalist there, Sophia something. I think her grandfather was the president of Georgia, the nation. But I did the interview. It didn't come out for an entire year. It came out on Russian television.

literally the week after russia invaded the ukraine wow and i was like come on people what kind of timing is that you know it looks like i just went on this show ukraine make a big stink across the world but it was a year before that that i even visited you now so hopefully norway doesn't invade anybody before this yeah right but

But that has happened here too. We've also used the air sometimes. I think this will come up before a year though, my behalf a year, but no, I'm totally on her timeline. But you said it yourself, time is an illusion. It is. And the best thing of all, this isn't urgent. This is timeless information. Absolutely, yeah. It's evergreen. All of it's going to be relevant. Yeah, for sure. Mm.

Great stuff, Michael. Thank you so much. Yeah, it was great talking to you. And like you said, keep in touch. Yeah. Okay. Sorry to be keeping you so long, but again, thank you. And see you around. Sounds good. Have a good evening. Thanks again to Michael for coming on and notwithstanding sharing with us his personal experience, which I suspect will be costly for him in terms of his academic background.

But the idea of time travel has been explored in the context of theoretical physics with some scientists speculating it may be possible to travel backwards in time using exotic forms of matter or energy. Indeed we have shows about these things in our back catalogue.

And to clarify the experiment I mentioned in the show, I was referring to the 2019 experiment. The researchers at the Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology, in collaboration with the University of Vienna and the Russian Quantum Center, successfully sent a photon, that's a particle of light, a few billionths of a second back in time. I said milliseconds. This is

far shorter, but thereby demonstrating a concept known as quantum temporal steering. In this experiment, the researchers were able to manipulate the state of the photon at one point in time, which in turn affected its state at an earlier point in time.

It's made possible by the strange and counterintuitive nature of quantum mechanics, which allows particles to exist in a state of superposition, meaning being in multiple states at the same time, and to be entangled, meaning interconnected with each other across space and time. And like I said, if the principle is demonstrated, now it's just a matter of scaling it. A particle, an organism eventually. Billions of a second, thousands of years eventually.

And while this 2019 experiment was certainly groundbreaking, it's not even the only one of its kind. In fact, researchers have been exploring the quantum of quantum temporal steering for many years, and there have been other experiments that has demonstrated similar phenomena.

For example, in 2016, a team of researchers from the University of Queensland in Australia successfully sent a pair of entangled photons through a wormhole, which is a theoretical structure that connects two points in space and time, as you all probably know. While this experiment didn't involve sending particles back in time, it did demonstrate the possibility of transmitting information through space-time using quantum mechanics.

And another experiment in 17 by a team of researchers from the University of Waterloo in Canada

showed that it was possible to send a photon back in time by reversing its quantum state. This experiment used a technique known as quantum erasure to effectively erase the photon's past and send it back in time. So while the MIPT experiment I first mentioned certainly was a significant achievement, it's just one of several experiments that have explored the strange and fascinating world of quantum mechanics and its implications for time travel.

And Michio Kaku seals the deal by stating, indeed, once confined to fantasy and science fiction, time travel is now simply an engineering problem. But it has been difficult for the dogmatists to reconcile the idea of time travel with the known laws of physics, as they think it will require an enormous amount of energy and resources to travel across vast areas.

stretches of time, of space-time. But like Dr. Michio Kaku said, in Einstein's equation, time is a river. It speeds up, meanders and slows down. The new wrinkle is that it can have whirlpools and fork into two rivers. So if the river of time can be bent into a pretzel, create whirlpools and forks, then time travel cannot be ruled out.

Yes. The idea of traveling in time has different scientific and philosophical theories that propose ways in which it might be possible. I'll share some of these main theories. They include general relativity, Einstein's theory, suggesting that time is not constant, but rather that it can be affected by factors such as gravity and velocity. This has led some physicists

to speculate that it might be possible to travel through time by manipulating these factors. And we also know that at the end, when he cooperated with Dr. Rosen, they launched the, I don't know if they used these terms, but the wormhole theory, you know, entering...

a black hole coming out of a white hole so so this is a consistent with the einsteinian physics then you have quantum mechanics of course some interpretations suggest that particles can travel backwards in time and that certain quantum phenomena may violate causality which is the principle that causes must always precede effects

You have the closed time-like curves. Some models of space-time geometry allows for the existence of closed time-like curves, which are paths through space-time that loop back on themselves, potentially allowing for time travel. You have multiple dimensions in string theory and other theories of physics, suggesting that there may be additional dimensions beyond the three dimensions.

of space and the one of time. Some speculate that these additional dimensions could provide a means for time travel. And as we learned today, there's the block universe theory proposing that all moments in time, past, present and future, exist simultaneously in a four-dimensional block of space-time. According to this, the passage of time is just an illusion, as our experience of time is simply the result

of our consciousness moving through this block. Some proponents argue that it provides a solution

to the paradoxes of time travel, since all events in the past and future are already fixed within the block and cannot be changed. Others argue that the theory is incompatible with our everyday experience of time and that it fails to adequately account for concepts like causality and free will. Within the philosophy of time, the block universe theory implications for time travel are still a topic of debate among physicists and philosophers. In development, you can say.

But what about the experiences? Well, some who believe UFOs are time travelers have reported that the visitors seem to be preparing for some kind of future event, like we mentioned in the show.

But some common themes include a collection of genetic materials. The beings seem to be interested in genetic material from humans, possibly for use in some kind of future breeding program or genetic engineering project, or to restore something that went seriously wrong with their own development, which would be the case if we take our

transhumanist deviation and I think this is also connected to the warnings of impending disaster some reports experiences report that the beings have warned them of impending environmental or social disaster and have urged us to prepare or take action to prevent this from occurring

Some experiences report that the beings seem interested in observing and studying human technology, possibly to gain insight into our level of development. As for the appearances of these beings, reports vary widely, but it seems to be two main categories nonetheless.

You have, of course, encountering greys who claim to be from the future and who are interested in studying human genetics to prevent some kind of future catastrophe. They are described as looking everything from similar to humans, while others describe them as having more alien-like features, such as large heads, small mouths and large eyes.

And then you have, of course, the so-called Nordics, who claim to be from a more spiritually advanced future civilization and visiting our time to share wisdom or guidance. I mean, if they can make themselves known to us without screwing up our space-time consistency, why not then do it properly? It's the same argument that's used against aliens like...

Why not meet with the journalists and the presidents? And I guess today it should be with Joe Rogan or at least make some kind of huge public event rendering it undeniable. And yeah, coming out to the close at once and for all. I mean, there's a million reasons why that shouldn't be done. I get that. But then why bother at all with unknown or random folks?

I guess if it's just collecting the stuff, they can tell them anything, right? But it seems very unlikely that they are coming to warn us. I mean, the warnings are probably a by-effect of the interaction that, for whatever reason, is necessitated.

And this is true whether it's beings from other planets in this universe or other times or even ourselves from other times or places or dimensions or what have you.

But you know, if our civilization is not abrupted by some gigantic catastrophe setting us back, and if people can fight back against the current tyrants dumbing us down and degenerating our collective pool, I think those who are our youngest today, the generation alpha,

will see it, this technology, in their lifetime. At least at its rudimentary stages. And thus far today. Thanks for listening, reviewing, sharing, and of course, your support. I've been your host Al, concluding with this. Confucius said, wherever you go, there you are. I say, whenever you go, then you are.

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Dr. Michael Paul Masters - Humans from the Future - PRE-RELEASE 02:46:15 Share

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Dr. Michael Paul Masters - Humans from the Future - PRE-RELEASE