Karen Read Trial Part 2 | Explosive Testimonies, Missing Evidence & the Cover-Up Conspiracy
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I will say another night. Another night. Just like you.

Hello and welcome back to Investigator Earth Podcast. I'm your host, Chad, alongside my beautiful wife, Sherry. On tonight's episode, we dive into part two of our coverage of the Karen retrial, a case that's becoming more tangled by the week. We're now deep into week four and five, and with every new witness, it seems that the inconsistencies only grow louder. Testimony contradicts testimony. Key facts shift, and the conspiracy theories circling the case are no longer whispers. They're front and center.

From suspicious relationships to vanishing evidence, what's really going on behind the scenes? Is this just a messy legal battle or is it something being covered up? Tonight, we're breaking down the latest developments and connecting the dots. Let's get into it, guys. Welcome to the show. It is May the 23rd, 2025.

And for everybody out there that is leading or going into the Memorial Day weekend, we hope that you have an amazing weekend with your family and friends. We are here with you guys on a Friday night, and we want to talk about the Karen Reid trial. This is part two. If you have not listened to our part one episode, we do encourage you guys to go back and listen. We cover a lot of some of the conspiracies, especially as far as John O'Keefe's body. Was he ever in the house? Was he not?

Tonight, we're going to more so break down some of week four and five's testimony, but also some of these other people that have come out.

and have called bullshit on the investigation. Also, we'll break down the Brian Higgins return to Canton PD the same night that John O'Keefe died. We're also going to talk about the tip-offs, potentially from the judge in this case to the prosecution. What is this all about? Is this just massive corruption, one big cover-up conspiracy? And for those who do not know, we talk a lot about conspiracies and corruption on this podcast. We've been doing it for about seven years.

Sherry, and listen, this is not something new to us, right? Conspiracy theories, corruption, especially corruption in the justice system. I think this is probably why we started this podcast. Oh, yeah. We've seen it all and we've seen it just about in every state now. There is corruption everywhere around us. And if you don't know that, then your eyes are not open because there is corruption and there is definitely corruption in this case. Yeah. I was talking to a good friend of mine and

And one of the things I said, I said, when did you become a conspiracy theorist? And this guy's very successful person. And he said, you know, let me tell you when I became a conspiracy theorist is when it happened to me. And a lot of people just do not realize until the justice system or until the system happens to you, then you believe that everything is just, you know, hunky dory. The justice system is perfect. Everything happens and goes the way it should happen.

And I think that the Karen retrial, there's a lot of people starting to open their eyes to the possibility of, hey, is this law enforcement, I guess, agency and also maybe even the court system, not only maybe covering up some stuff that happened that night, but are they actually helping the prosecution? Are they helping the police department? We're going to talk about all of that on this show. But before we get to that, I want to welcome my very special guest, Ryan Ross. Ryan Ross. Ryan Ross.

That's backwards. You're getting my dyslexia. I am. I want to welcome our good friend, Ross Ryan, back to the show. Ross, you have a degree in criminology, a bachelor's degree, unlike the guy that testified in the Karen Reid trial this past week, which he says he has a bachelor's degree, but then he says that he's been working on it for 18 years, I think. Right. How long did it take you to get your bachelor's degree, Ross? Well, technically, I...

I guess I could fit mine a little bit too. Technically, I graduated in 1993 with a bachelor's degree in criminology. Again, a lot of BS that went into my BS degree. I was involved in a car accident, which delayed my actual graduation.

my graduation from all my credits until 1998. So officially, I graduated in 1998. My class would have been 1993. Yeah. So you have no excuse. You just had a car accident that you almost died in. So you have no excuse for the couple of years that it took you to get it. That was extra. Yeah.

Right. And it took me five to get the total four-year degree. So that makes sense for you. Congratulations, Ross. I'm so proud of you. That's awesome. Especially after your accident. And for those of you that don't know, Ross is actually not able to even walk.

from that accident. So his whole life has changed. Yeah, absolutely. But Ross, I do say that, you know, you've devoted a lot of your time to cases like this. You have gave us so much insight, especially into the Karen Reed trial. I know we're going to use you extensively with the Brian Koberger trial, which is the Idaho four murders coming up in August.

And I know you have a passion for this. Obviously, you went to school for stuff like this. Let me go ahead and get your analysis. Do you think tell everybody is Karen Reed guilty or innocent based on everything that you know from both the first trial and the second? Well, from the both both trials, the first and second, definitely. I think she is absolutely 100 percent innocent. I don't think. Whoops. Sorry. From the evidence they've showed this trial.

I just don't see how he was hit with a six to seven thousand pound SUV and flown 30 feet in the air and all this stuff happened to him. There's just no bodily injuries that are consistent with a car accident. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. And I was going to ask you, I'm sorry to mean to interrupt. Do you think the first trial proved more of her innocence than this trial or vice versa so far?

From the entire trial, I think they proved more of her innocence in the first trial for sure. From this trial, they're focusing more – the prosecution so far is focusing more on the actual facts that she said. I hit him. I hit him. I hit him. And they're trying to prove – basically put their timeline together to show that in fact she did hit him. However –

The evidence that I've seen so far in this case, in this trial, the second trial, that evidence is just not there. Yeah.

And so we're going to try to conversate tonight on this show about kind of week four, week five, and there's kind of an overall consensus on the conspiracy around this, right? Well, now we do not know the facts of this case 100% as far as exactly what happened, who may have actually been involved in this versus Karen Reed. So anything that we say tonight is speculation. Take it for what it's worth. It is our theories, our thoughts, and our opinions and nothing more. But I do want to go ahead and give you guys, for those that

have not followed this case at all. And maybe you're wondering why we are covering it. As we said before, we have talked extensively on this show for seven years about corruption and conspiracy. And I think when I started to learn about the Karen Reed case and everything that was involved in this case, I wanted to know more about it. And usually stuff, especially with what we talk about

on the regular basis. I guess court trials does not get our attention as much. Now, obviously, we have covered trials such as the Idaho four. That was not trial yet, but it was the murders we covered. We also covered the Alec Murdoch trial in South Carolina. We've covered P. Diddy. We've talked about the

Ghislaine Maxwell trial, Jeffrey Epstein. There's been so many other cases. Also Scott Spivey, which also happened in South Carolina. We talked about the Spartanburg County Sheriff's corruption, which he now officially has resigned. As of today, we brought on Nick Duncan, which will be running for sheriff in the coming months when the special election happens. Vote Nick Duncan Sheriff, by the way, for anybody that's in South Carolina.

And so we're now talking about the Karen Reid trial. And for those that do not know much about it, Karen Reid is accused of second degree murder in the death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O'Keefe, who was found unresponsive in the snow outside of a home in Canton, Massachusetts, in the early morning hours of January 29th of 2022. Now, the prosecution's allegations claims that after a night of drinking, Reid dropped off O'Keefe,

at a house party at 34 Fairview Road around 1230 a.m. and then backed into him with her SUV while making a three point turn and left him outside in freezing temperatures. They also alleged that she was intoxicated and later tried to cover up what happened. Now, the defense's arguments have said that this is a frame job and a massive cover up involving local law enforcement. They say O'Keefe was beaten inside the house, possibly by people with connections to law enforcement, and then placed outside to make it look like an accident.

Now, the defense has also highlighted missing or inconsistent forensic evidence, mishandled procedures and potential conflicts of interest among investigators, including those with relationships to people at the party. So let's go ahead and start here. John O'Keefe was dropped off by Karen Reed. Now, we've talked about this in the first episode, and we're going to elaborate on a lot more stuff that's happened since our first episode on May 1st.

John O'Keefe was dropped off. He was allegedly hit by Karen Reed in the front of this house. Now, if you look at this property, if you and I think the first episode, I didn't even exactly 100 percent have in my mind what this house or property looked like. But if you're looking at the house from the road, you have about 50 yards from the road to the front door of this property.

You have a flagpole that is on the left side of the property, and then you have a driveway that is on the exact right side of the property. From where they say that John O'Keefe was hit by Kieran Reed was on the left side of the property where her vehicle, her SUV was parked kind of, I guess, on the westerly side of the property, the leftmost side, if you're looking at the property from the road. And he apparently got out.

She must have, I would, I would assume what it had to have pulled forward in the road and then backed up at a very fast speed because John O'Keefe was found. What was it? 30 feet, 30 feet from where the curb would have been, I guess. And there was no skid marks or no apparent signs that if you are hit by a vehicle where someone is backing into you, then usually, and this is just my analysis of this, um,

If she pulls forward in a road and she floors it even with a short, I mean, that's only what, I don't know, 30 feet, 20 feet from where she could have possibly pulled forward. And then, you know, they're claiming about 60 feet, but there's no way it was that far. I don't think so either. But even still, you're saying that when she hits him with the back right side of this vehicle, that it threw him 30 feet without touching the ground whatsoever. If you're a lineman in charge of keeping the lights on,

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Yeah, I don't think that's possible. And then so then you have all these allegations that, you know, the injuries on his arm, which appears to be what looks like, in my opinion, bite marks. I mean, if you dog attack. Yeah. If you guys have ever seen a dog attack on your arm to puncture wounds and all this stuff.

That looks like a dog attack to me. And yet what the prosecution has been saying consistently is that these wounds, these marks on his arm are from the taillight and which doesn't make a whole lot of sense either. Or possibly the glass that he was holding in his hand or the glass. Yes. But still doesn't make a lot of sense.

But when you think about someone backing into you and I've seen a lot of, you know, how I've seen videos of people have been backed into or ran over from by a car. Now there can be people that are thrown a decent distance, but usually, you know, that's in a, it's a fast speed that you're going to this vehicle, right?

The other things and the other consistent, I guess, inconsistencies with this case is that there were many people in this house during this time. Many of those people left after the fact. Now, it did just start snowing around 1230 at night or so. And we don't know exactly what the accumulation was over the next hour, two hours, three hours or four. But we do know that there were multiple people that left this house that never saw John O'Keefe in the yard, according to them.

We also know there are special relationships involved in this case. And there was a lot of law enforcement that was involved. John O'Keefe himself was a Boston police officer. Brian Albert, which is the owner of the house. He was also a Boston police officer, right, Ross? Yes. Yep. And then you had you had Higgins. You had Brian Higgins, which is an ATF agent. Now, Brian Higgins is connected to this case because he has an office inside of Canton Police Department. Right.

Now, it is Brian Albert's brother that is with the Canton Police Department, right, Ross? Yes, Kevin Albert. Kevin Albert, yeah. So Kevin Albert is in the Canton Police Department. The very interesting thing, and what we're going to break down tonight as well, is that why did...

Higgins leave the house, then go to Canton police department. He did a lot of weird stuff in the parking lot. He also went and checked in with communications, AKA dispatch Ross, you know, a little bit about that. And, um, so there was a whole timeline about 1 30 AM. This was approximately an hour after the prosecution is saying that John O'Keefe was killed by Karen Reed by being backed into, but

But what was Brian Higgins doing? And then what were they also doing the night of and preceding the actual party at the house? Let's get into that right now. Ross, can you tell me a little bit from the waterfall bar? Obviously, everybody that was in this house went to the waterfall bar.

And so you have Brian Higgins, which is ATF agent. You have John O'Keefe, which is the boyfriend, which is the one that is deceased of Karen Reed. You also have Brian Albert. You have who else am I missing people? I'm sure that was McCabe McCabe McCabe, Jim McCabe, Matt McCabe, her husband, Brian Higgins, Brian and Nicole Albert, John and Karen Higgins.

I want to believe Carrie Roberts and her husband. And that's the guy that owns the pizza place, D&E Pizza or something like that. Okay. And I think, well, Kevin Albert and his wife. I think her name's Julie. Mm-hmm. And I think that was the group. Okay. So to set this scene up, they're all out at a bar. They're drinking. Right. Now...

For those that want to know, like, what is the conspiracy around this? Why is there such a faction of people in this, I guess they're invested in this case, that they believe that Karen Reid is innocent? Well, number one, it is because of the potential relationship between Brian Higgins and Karen Reid. We know, especially based on text messages between Karen Reid that has been exposed in trial between Karen Reid and Brian Higgins, the ATF agent, that

That they flirted all the time. And it seemed like that Brian Higgins was more of the aggressor, I guess, as far as trying to get Karen Reed into kind of his realm. He wanted Karen Reed, I think a lot more maybe than Karen Reed wanted him.

But the big thing here is that even at the waterfall that night, everybody's drinking, everybody's kind of getting shitty. And you have Brian Higgins sitting here texting John O'Keefe or sorry, Karen Reed. And they are kind of communicating back and forth a little bit until she doesn't no longer respond. There is even a video from the waterfall that shows Brian Higgins continually checking his phone constantly.

And John O'Keefe, which is the boyfriend here, the one that died, he is kind of seen off and kind of doing his own thing while they're kind of doing their own thing. Can you elaborate a little bit more, Ross, about maybe the setup of the situation in the waterfall bar that night? Don and Karen came in probably were the last of the group to arrive. I don't know that Higgins knew they were coming.

John had wanted to hang out with him because there was, this was from the first trial that there was some, they were celebrating his, his niece and one of his buddy's daughter getting into a college, I think, or the same middle school, not necessarily college, my fault. They like a middle school or something. And it was a real big deal to them. So they were, they were celebrating that. So they, John had always been asked out by all these people. So he finally went, you know, to hang out with them and,

Brian Higgins was kind of shocked to see Karen Reed there. And he had sent because they had been texting throughout the week and she pretty much ghosting on that Friday because her and John had had a fight and they were kind of making up a little bit. So they had pretty much made up and went to the bar and then all this stuff happens at the bar. He texts Karen. Well, now what? With kind of some question marks and whatever.

You know, and she doesn't respond to him. So he gets mad because he's just she's flat out ignoring. Doesn't really make eye contact with him. Stuff like that. Yeah. And so there's obviously this relationship, right? There is a relationship to some degree between Brian Higgins and Karen Reed.

I mean, there's no question about this. And so all of these people then at one point in time leave this bar. And before they leave the bar, doesn't Brian Higgins kind of motion for John O'Keefe to come outside or at least maybe go to the property where he ends up dead? Yeah, there's a huge – well, I won't say huge. Higgins tries to make it an incident, and Brian Albert and Kevin Albert are –

physically holding Higgins back from going towards John. You can see Brian Albert put his hand on Higgins' chest, and Kevin Albert grabs his sweatshirt sleeve, and you can see the tension on the fabric pulling where Higgins is trying to pull his arm away, and he's motioning at John, saying, like, come on. You can see him, like, doing the come motion until he's hanging with his hand, and John's not paying attention at all because he's paying his bill,

And then Higgins turns around to look at Albert or somebody that's closer to the door. O'Keefe turns around and starts laughing. And I don't know if he doesn't see it or if it, you know, once Higgins turned back, turned back and looks at John, he sees him laughing and maybe makes him more mad. So, I mean, without the audio, it's hard to say what was going on, but clearly Higgins was mad.

Just angry. But if you want to know the girl gossip part of this, we have to back up a week. A week prior to them being at the two bars that night when John O'Keefe died, we have to back up to the weekend before. The weekend before, they were watching a football game at John O'Keefe's house. And Brian Higgins came to John O'Keefe's house to watch the football game with John and Karen.

During the football game, I'm assuming that there was some kind of flirtation going on. And the reason why I'm assuming that is because Karen walked Brian Higgins out of the house to his car that night and she kissed him. Mm-hmm.

And the reason why we know this is during the trial, the texts come out and we'll probably talk about that later. But I just want to say the texts come out and she tells Brian Higgins that John O'Keefe knows that she kissed him because of the ring camera. And he's like, oh, shit. You know, you think about a bunch of buddies that are in a police department together. Nobody wants anybody else to know that they kissed their other, you know, somebody's woman or whatever. Right.

So he's freaking out saying, oh, my God, did he see us? What's going on? What's going to happen now? And then she comes back and almost like kidding, like, well, I know where the camera is. I didn't kiss you, dummy, on the camera, basically, is what she was saying, because she kissed him outside of the camera. But she wanted to make sure that he knew that John had that ring camera. And at this point, he doesn't know if he's seen the ring camera or not.

And then we have to mention the text messages from the whole week. It was pretty much flirtation going back and forth, but in a way, it

I feel like Karen Reed was playing games with Brian Higgins. She's leading him on. Yeah, she was leading him on saying he was hot, but she just wanted to be friends because, you know, they act like each other. They would get along good. And then they're even talking about times when they would meet up at her house. I think she...

purposely stayed at her house to see if Brian Higgins would come to her house. That night he did not come, but he wanted to. He wanted to be there. And I think she wanted him to be there because he was her backup. Yeah.

Yeah. And I don't think either one of them are in the right at this point. I think they both were flirting with each other and they both were going like, well, what's going on? But Brian Higgins was more forward about, well, what are you going to do about the situation? You have a boyfriend. And if you want me, you got to get rid of the boyfriend. This is basically what was going on between them in the text. Yeah. Yeah.

Now, that's a good analysis because there's even a text message that they kind of displayed in court where Brian Higgins asked her or says something in the regards of you won't come back if I come over there. Like basically, you know, insinuating it's going to go down. Right. So.

This was obviously a huge kind of relationship between them. And, you know, even when they ask Sergeant Buchanek, when they ask him about this and when Michael Proctor, which was the lead investigator over this case, which is the one that botched a lot of this, even if you don't think there was conspiracy surrounding this.

how bad Proctor handled the case. And then the text messages where he was looking through Karen Reed's phone and he was like, Hey, I'm just a no new jet. And so even, you know, the defense was like, Hey, what do you think he meant by no new jet? What do you think he was looking for on the phone? I don't know. And then the defense is like, well, do you think he was looking for motorcycles for pictures of mountains or whatever? What do you think he was looking at? And just so you know, it's not news. It's,

Cause I always hear it as news, but it's nudes. N-U-D-E-S. Looking for nudes on John O'Keefe's phone of Karen Reid. Cause she is a hot looking lady. She's a good looking girl. Yeah. She's not bad. She's all right.

I think she's cute. She's all right. But but as you read the text messages between Karen Reed and John O'Keefe, and this is what pisses me off. Like when anytime I hear this stuff, this woman, it seems like at the very least is playing two sides.

And anytime you start playing two sides with two dudes, they, you know, a lot of them have a lot of ego, a lot of testosterone and the alpha, that kind of alpha mentality. And then you start not only playing both sides and then both people know about the sides that are being played in this triangle. This is a love triangle in this case.

Then you bring your boyfriend to where the other guy is, which is an ATF agent. Oh, my God. Could you imagine if that happened to you? No, no. I would feel so uncomfortable even knowing I pretty much kiss this guy's face. Yeah. I'm still John. Ha ha. Yeah. And even knowing that she kissed this guy and now that she's in the same bar with them, she has. Yeah. She blew him off the whole night.

Yeah. I mean, we would be having a podcast about me right now. You would be fighting mad if that happened and vice versa. If I knew you were like texting other girls and say, Oh, it doesn't matter. We're not married. You know, who cares if we're not married, we can talk to whoever we want to. That's just not the way relationships work. In my opinion, smart enough not to leave a person on your front yard. Well,

But not only that, I mean, if it was me in this case and, you know, and you hear about me doing some shit like that, like Karen Reed was doing, you just might as well go ahead and say Sherry's guilty. If I if I ran over in the front yard and they are saying that's what it is, I guarantee you that's what it is. But fortunately, this is not the case. It was the opposite.

Yeah, that's correct. Well, he did kind of have an affair, I guess, or cheated or was like having New Year's Eve. Yeah. New Year's Eve. He had some intimacy going on with a girl in a lobby that she. Oh, you know what? I just put that together.

That's what caused her to kiss him. Yes. Him back for kissing that girl. Yes. In the lobby at the on vacation. Yes. Revenge. And that's why I pissed off at him. That's why Sergeant. You're. Yeah. I always screw his name up. Buchanek. Buchanek. That's why Sergeant Buchanek said about the text messages that he likely think it was for revenge. Revenge.

But Brian Higgins was not for revenge. Brian Higgins, I think, really did to Karen. He was really into her because he was kind of yeah, he was kind of the dude like, how could I ever get a girl like that? I can't even believe this girl is texting me. How did you even get my digits? Like, why are you calling me? And then he calls her out. Why do you want me? Why are you talking to me? Well, you're hot.

Well, I think you're hot, too. That is definitely flirtation going on. Absolutely. Well, listen, we've we've heard about how did you get my digits or my phone number? How did he get her phone number? No, she got his phone number. Oh, yeah. That's what I mean. How did she get his phone number from the bartender at CF McCarthy's, which is the first bar that John and Karen were at.

Early on that Friday night. That makes sense. All right. So let's also talk about this in, on the conspiracy side of stuff. So since this has happened, you have the Alberts that have sold their house.

you have them rehoming their dog. And the reason why the rehoming of the dog, which is a German shepherd, I believe. So the reason why this is important, obviously, is because of the injuries on his arm, as we already talked about, I think. But, you know, these injuries that are on his arm look like puncture wounds. They do not look like this was done by a glass, a glass or a tell light. It looks like puncture wounds. It looks like a dog would have bit all over and up and down in his arm and

And as I talked about in the first episode, I'm not going to go into that. But yes, oftentimes if someone has a dog, they can sick on you and they want to. And especially if you're a police officer and you have a canine. But that dog was not trained as a canine. But it was a German Shepherd, so it could have been trained and we didn't know.

Maybe just because it was they said it actually failed the canine test. OK, and that is probably because he bit the hell out of it. Yeah, it was very aggressive towards strangers. Oh, that's weird. Yeah. And other dogs, even people coming in their house that didn't know the dog. The dog was not comfortable around other people.

And they even said, Brian even said that he was downstairs watching the dog around the people because there were so many people in the kitchen. He didn't want her to attack anybody just out of fear. Because that's what fear, that's what it is with the dogs, is just fear. Right. Yeah. And we know because we've had dogs like that that do not like other people. And when we bring people over, we got to put the dogs up.

But let me ask you a quick question, Ross. The side door, does that go from the downstairs up or is that on the main level? I believe it's on the main level. I don't know if there's a step or something into the kitchen or the living room. I thought they said it opens up right into the living room. So that being the case, you'd walk right in and obviously the dog would be right there. And it's attached to the kitchen. It's all like one, almost one big room with just a few walls separating it. Nothing special.

It's kind of a free-flowing type thing is what the impression I got of it. Yeah. And that's interesting that the dog would be at the side door where Karen Reed says, oh, you don't think so? I don't think she was right at the door. I honestly think she was in the basement.

because once everybody got there, there was more people coming in. It would be harder to watch her. So I think Brian might have taken her to the basement to put her down there and just chill out while everybody was there. Gotcha. Now, we have a lot to cover on this show, and this is kind of the intro 30 minutes of just kind of us talking. There's a lot to talk about here, but there was a clip that came out from retired Canton Police Department sergeant on Karen Reid trial mishipes and mistakes.

And we'll play that. We'll break it down. But he offers some amazing insight. Guys, you have to listen to this. Check this out. Spent three decades in law enforcement and retired as sergeant in the Canton Police Department. His name is Peter Murphy, and he joins me right now. Sarge, it is very good to see you. Thank you for your service to the police. Let me ask you, look, what would you have done if you were still on duty and you had arrived at that house?

I mean, the fact that the guy never went in, you would have gone inside, right? Yeah, Billy. I mean, there are certain protocols and just kind of—

definitely rules of the road for crime scene investigation, policies and procedures. There's dead body procedures. There's suspected mortal wound procedures. The main thing you try to do is preserve the crime scene. And immediately in conjunction with that, Billy, you want to do an exigent search for

perhaps other victims. In other words, anybody that responded to that scene would have and should have known that Brian Albert's involvement with the Boston police as a fugitive supervisor and gang unit and any call for service to that house should have brought all the officers on duty that day

for anything, body on the lawn, shots fired, suspicious car, all boots on the ground on the police department working that shift would have responded. And not only did not, they all didn't respond, but not, but Brian Albert himself, an investigator with a lot of experience in this area, never left his house. He never went out to look what was going on, never checked on the body, never, never did anything. Um,

So back to your, you know, position here in the community, are you comfortable, you know, drawing up some big question marks and raising some doubts as to what actually went on here? Yes. As I said, Billy, I...

reversed my conception of what happened back in April of 23. And I have been very out front with criticism and providing information on different media sites in Canton. And you asked me what I would have done. Basically, you secure the scene, you check for other victims, you secure witnesses, you try to isolate them so they don't talk to each other.

maybe put their phones in a secure place so they can't call. Everybody's a suspect at 610 that morning when you've got a dead cop laying on the lawn in another cop's house and the cop doesn't come out of the house. I mean, it's got some real questions immediately by 615. Any officer on scene and any supervisor, including the deputy chief right across the street from number 34,

who was home, he should have come out and established himself as the incident commander. They should have put a command vehicle on the way, which they had access to through a MetroLac. They could have got school buses. They could have-- there's so much-- they did nothing according to protocol. And shame on them. And I would suggest to you, they could have asked for a warrant. They could have asked for consent to go through the House.

And I would doubt we'd be having this conversation today if that investigation was conducted properly, Billy. We're talking. And I want to pause here because obviously the owners of the house, the police officers, did not even come out of the house this night or this morning. Nobody did. But let's just back up for just a second. What happened is after they left the bar, they decided to go back to the Alberts house for an after party. Mm hmm.

Karen and John were driving together and they come and pull up and they're there. And this is where you get all the testimony and trying to figure out, did John leave the car? Did John go inside the house? Did Karen run over him? This is the whole buildup of the whole thing. Yeah.

Yeah. Did, did John O'Keefe go in the house? Was he attacked inside of the house? That is what obviously the defense wants to tell you. And as this retired police department, Sergeant of in Canton police department says everything, it appears that happened this night was not the correct way to handle this.

Ross, what do you think about the people not ever coming out of the house, number one, but then they never interviewed anybody inside the house at 6 a.m. in the morning or 5.30, 6 a.m. in the morning? There are various people that were there at the time that the prosecution and police department want to tell you that he died, but would they not be obvious people that you would want to be talking to at this point in time?

Absolutely. I mean, with there being a party at the house the night before, everybody was drinking, and that's not been kept silent by any means. And you got a dead guy on the front yard that's a cop, and the front yard of a cop and the family of cops. I mean, there's just—you would absolutely want to get into the house and talk to the people that were there. And like Sergeant Murphy was saying—

You need to secure everything. I mean, there's nothing you shouldn't secure. The crime scene, put tape up. You get a crime scene log, log who's in and out of the tape. Find the area. They should have cordoned off the entire house. And like you said, nothing was done. Nothing was secured. People walking around the crime scene, in and out. I mean, all over the area.

And Brian Albert, a Boston police officer, a trained first responder, never comes out of his house to check on a person laying on his own front yard. I know. Doesn't that sound a little bit crazy? I mean, how could you not see the lights of all these fire engines and stuff coming out? And I'm sure they had some kind of sirens. I don't know if they did. Well, they claim they didn't, but...

I know better. Yeah, that's weird. I mean, well, we always just know like, I mean, code two, like especially in North Carolina and certain parts of like Myrtle beach and all that. Like, I think it was illegal at one point in time to even run code two because you know, insurance purposes, if you're running code two and you have, and you have only lights on what's code two. Oh, just like, yeah. Then code three is lights and sirens. Code two is, is just lights. Now,

But technically, insurance wise, that could be a bad thing, because if you hit and kill someone in an intersection, you only have lights on. And then they say, well, you were only running lights at this time and they can prove that. And then that's on your ass. That's on the county. They can be sued. That's not a good way to do it. So if they were only running license hires, I understand maybe you don't run through a neighborhood license hires at 530 in the morning. But at least leading up to that, I completely see that now.

The thing we had talked about in the first episode, too, was, you know, the possibility that John O'Keefe died inside the house versus he was hit by a vehicle. Now, there was something that this investigator or this non-investigator, but this sergeant that used to be with Canton Police Department says, I believe it's in this clip. I hope it is. And if it's not, I got to play that clip. But about exactly what he said about what would have been the case, I

how they would have found John O'Keefe if what they say happened did actually happen. So we'll get to that. Let's listen to some more of this. To a man with...

Three decades of service, retired as a sergeant in the Canton, Massachusetts Police Department. This is where this whole Karen Reid event went down, where John O'Keefe, officer who was dating Karen Reid, died. She is now facing her second trial right now, and she's up against a lot. She's up against the state police. She's up against the state. She's up against...

I feel bad for the Canton police officer, the little guy that this is the department for which you serve. This young guy, they're basically calling him an idiot because all he could find was, you know, a cocktail glass and a shard. And, you know, two hours later, a much more experienced guy and Michael Proctor finds a ton of broken taillight around the scene. I mean, you know, that guy...

Could anyone be that stupid as to not see taillights? They're red in the snow.

Uh, Ross, can you, can you elaborate on what he's talking about here? Because so now you have Proctor. The guy has been let go. He is no longer a trooper. He's no longer in the department and he's being investigated by the FBI. Yes. Right. So there was initial investigator that got on the scene. Didn't see any evidence of tell lights or any of this stuff. Correct. And not until Proctor came, but here's the thing that there was a video of

There was a video that they specifically ask Yurik about, Yurik Buchanek. Is he a sergeant? Yeah, sergeant. Yeah, sergeant. He was the supervisor over the whole scene. Yes. So here's the thing. They ask him about this. They say, when you guys brought Karen Reed's SUV into the Sallyport, into the garage, this was not long after the incident happened.

Ross, can you tell me a little bit about they obviously had surveillance footage of this vehicle in the Sallyport. But what is interesting about this footage, Ross, in the Sallyport? Well, they show the vehicle coming in at 512 p.m. And then there's a part where Trooper Proctor walks behind the vehicle and kind of disappears. But you can kind of see his head a little bit.

Well, the next time you see it, it's 40 minutes later. So there's a 40-minute or 50-minute cut in the video that just the camera just, quote, glitched. So we know that's probably not the case. It has been altered. The video itself was actually inverted, and Buchanek didn't tell anybody that it was inverted until they saw, noticed the date and time at the bottom and showed it was backwards.

So that's where they got the video of it being inverted. But that 50 minutes behind the vehicle where, you know, it just disappeared, more than likely was possible. Well, I won't say more than likely. Allegedly was tampering of evidence and possibly breaking the taillight. And the fact that they show it back at the 545 and that they're in the Sallyport, McKinney says at some point that they were still on scene at 545.

And that's when they found all the stuff. Well, the timeline's messed up. They got the vehicle around 4.12 and pulled in at 5.12, and they had time to take pieces to the scene and miraculously find all kinds of pieces, you know, eight or nine hours after they searched at six in the morning when they found the glass and John O'Keefe. So...

it's clear that, and some of the plastic pieces were on top of the snow. Whereas if it happened at 1230, like they said, it would be on the grass, not the snow. And let me make something clear. What Ross is saying is there are 50 minutes of video that miraculously somehow disappeared.

And her vehicle was in the shop before they found the pieces. But let me ask you guys a question. And I don't know if you can answer me what. And by the way, Karen Reed is the one that figured out that the video was inverted. What would be the purpose of inverting a video like that?

I guess it would be the taillight and what side potentially, or I don't know. Or to cover up where he was. Maybe. Absolutely. Yeah. That's what I think it is. Yeah. It could have been. And then the other video that actually shows the side of the vehicle that's damaged is a horrible video. It's like the camera's not working very well at all. Now, basically all you see is an outline. And when the vehicle shows up, you know, at one point it's there and then all of a sudden it's not, or I'm sorry, at one point it's not there. Then all of a sudden it is. So yeah.

This camera is pretty much a waste, but you do see the vehicle show up and there's a timestamp on that. But I think contradicts the other video. And Ross, we had talked about in the first episode that there was footage allegedly that Karen Reed

had backed into John O'Keefe's car, John O'Keefe's vehicle in the driveway. Now they're saying that there is no damage on O'Keefe's vehicle from that, you know, a backup, even though in the video, you know, you can kind of see the, the vehicle move, but could this have had damaged the tell light prior, or are we going more on the case of like, Hey, let's damage the tell light, or maybe you saw a damaged tell light to begin with and let's, let's screw it up more. Yeah.

Well, I think the video, the ring camera from John's house does show her backing up and hitting his traverse. The tire moves. Clearly, the vehicle moves. And the vehicle, Karen reads Lexus, the taillights stick out further than the vehicle. So that's going to be the point of impact on the John's car, which I believe cracked her taillight, cracked it. It didn't shatter it.

It didn't bust any pieces off of it or anything like that. So that's where the taillight was cracked. Yeah. Real quick, though, before you go on, did they ever search around John O'Keefe's car for any fragments of this tailgate, this taillight? No, they did not. OK. I mean, do you think they would really present that evidence? I mean, especially if we're talking about, you know, if this is some type of cover up or conspiracy, right?

Even if they did, they're not going to say, oh, well, here we have it right here. Right. Exactly. All right. Go ahead. Sorry, Ross. I just want to make it clear that they did not search around his car at all for any. The only place they searched was at the house. Why didn't they search anywhere else? But I think the interesting thing, too, is like the initial investigator came, didn't really see a lot of evidence for anything. And then Proctor comes and.

you know, he has all this evidence, but the very, very interesting thing is when you see Proctor on this video in the Sally port with the vehicle and then 50 minutes of video is missing. Yep. And then this is the guy that presents the, uh,

Hey, here's all the tell light evidence or, you know, I mean, here's what we found. He's the hero that finds all the evidence. And let me ask you this too, Ross. Wasn't some of the video missing from the ring doorbell camera when Karen was showing her car where she hit John O'Keefe's car? Yep. The ring camera was accessed.

Massachusetts state police, which would have been Proctor because he was the one, the lead investigator. He was one doing all the research and, and investigating. And he accessed the ring app from John, John O'Keefe's phone when he was going through quote, his retarded client's phone. And he accessed that ring app and seemingly just deleted some video because ring was

did say that there was a video deleted. Yeah, and Yurik Buchanek's testimony talked about, you know, they asked him, they said, hey, what is the deal with this? Like who accessed the ring camera? Was it Proctor? And or, you know, however they said that. And then Yurik was like, well, I don't know. I mean, it was investigators.

And he knew likely it was Proctor, but he just didn't want to say it because Proctor is like the kryptonite in this case. You don't want to say Proctor as much as possible. Obviously, that's why the prosecution is damn sure not going to call him into this case because he is like the kryptonite of the prosecution case.

And I am also surprised, although we think that the defense is not going to call Proctor, which I would, I would think that I would want to call Proctor, but then it might shed some light on something you don't maybe want to. I don't know. Either way, let's listen to some more of the sergeant because he makes some great points in this. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, Canton Police threw a couple of police officers down there, Billy, and, you know, initially on the first call. But they never secured the scene. People were walking up and down the street. There's so much that they could have and should have done and they didn't do to preserve evidence and secure the scene. And two officers went into eventually and finally went into the 34 Fairview residence

Um, at nine o'clock, which as you know, quick maths is it's three hours after they found a body on a cop's lawn and it was another officer. They waited three hours to go in and check for other victims that could have been in that house knowing the, um, you know, the business that that officer, uh, Brian Albert was in. And three hours later they decide what to go in and have a coffee. And, uh, nobody really got interviewed in that house. It was just, um,

In one sentence, I couldn't say to you, you couldn't have screwed that investigation up worse if you wanted to. And did you get some- So maybe they did want to. Did you get, maybe they did want to. Yeah, that's the big question.

You know, is this a big conspiracy? I mean, look, there is a fraternal order of of of police. Right. It's a it's a brotherhood. It's a family. It's a, you know, one for one, one for all, all for one type of mentality here. And could that, you know, stretch even to the most gruesome, extenuating circumstances, which is a murder cover up?

And before he answers that, I want to say something on this because a lot of what we've been covering over the past two months has been talking about the corruption in law enforcement and, you know, what the lengths they will go in some cases to cover up things for either their buddies or fellow law enforcement. Now, obviously, you have those videos on the Internet to where I think I'd said this on another episode where, you know, you may have a cop pull over an off duty cop that's drunk and

And, you know, it's always kind of weird to see like a cop saying, look, I know you, dude, but you're drunk and I got to take you to jail. You're going to jail, bro. You're going to jail. And I always highly respect those officers that do that because it sucks for them to have to do that. And it's the same way we talked about Spartanburg County stuff with Chuck Wright. And then, you know, like, who do you want to replace someone that

may be corrupt according to allegations anyway like how do you find the perfect candidate to lead a department of officers that have a lot of power and control over the citizens which is the exact reason why we do this podcast is because we want accountability for any and everyone that is in control and power over the citizens of the united states or your county your state

And the question here is, is what Billy Bush just asked this sergeant, like, how far can it go? And even the sergeant says, well, maybe they intentionally botched this. And it's like he said, this is the worst botching of an investigation I've seen and maybe intentionally. And that's the key here is like we're not just crazy conspiracy theorists to think that this could have been a massive cover up or conspiracy here.

But then you always ask yourself, and everybody's always asked about conspiracy theories, and most people, especially the media or whoever, they say, well, there would have to be this many people involved for it to be some big conspiracy theory. I don't know. But you have to understand the complexity of conspiracies, where it starts where there is maybe an ATF agent involved, multiple police officers, then the investigation itself that has to somehow get involved.

or maybe there's just one bad investigator that then makes the entire department look bad. And then the department starts covering. And then the prosecution comes in and say, hey, look, you know what? Here's the deal. Let's just make sure this all. This is how these realms of. It's a spiraling thing. It is. It's like a lie. Well, and I'm just saying. You lie about something. Wait, you lie about something. Then you got to do another lie. Yes. Then you got to do another lie. Then you got to do another lie. Then you got like 20 lies and you're like, shit, 20 lies deep.

This is maybe this maybe what happens and stuff like this. Yeah. And when you're botching things up so bad and so you're not prepared, I think is what's the problem when you're collecting evidence in a shop and go bag and solo cups. There's something going on with your county. Yeah, that's true. Yep.

That is true. Yeah. I mean, this is what the jurors are hearing is about the DNA in a solo cup in a shop and go bag. Well, I'll never forget. There was some jurors snickering about that, too. Yeah. I mean, well, I'll never forget even the Alec Murdoch case. Right. In South Carolina, the shot and killed his allegedly shot and killed. Well, not allegedly, I guess now he's convicted, but.

He shot and killed his wife and son. But the very interesting thing about the entire case was that the prosecution, the state of South Carolina, wanted to bring in everything that Alec Murdoch did as a piece of shit person that he was, which I do believe that Alec Murdoch is a piece of shit. I will say that right now. But what the prosecution used, including Alan Wilson, they used his, you know, his corruption, his screwed up.

you know, bad dealings, how he screwed people out of money, paraplegics out of money and, and, and whatever they use that to convict him. Yeah. They use that to convict him. For the first week, they talked about how bad he was and how he took everyone's money. It had nothing to do about the case.

of Maggie and her son. Yeah, Maggie and Paul. Yeah. But the interesting thing about it was is that when they started talking about the scene preservation, right? So they come in, Alec Murdoch calls, fire department's walking everywhere, the police are walking everywhere, they don't really cordon anything off. It is a complete shit show. Everybody just going everywhere.

And then so the preservation of evidence is kind of lost at that point. You don't know what is what, whose footprints are what, how many people may have been involved. There's so many questions to that. And there's still so many questions about the Alec Murdoch case as far as his involvement, how big of a prosecutor he was or just in the law and order thing. And then

you know, his great grandfathers and his connections to state law enforcement and all of this stuff. There's a lot of stuff that did not make a lot of sense about that case. And I think in the same way in this, you ask yourself, how can a department potentially, you know, co-conspire to cover up something? It happens all the time. But just, I think we're going to get a chance to go through that Murdoch trial. Cause I think it's going to be another retry. I do too. I think it might because of Becky Hill. Yeah. Becky Hill.

Yeah, for sure. So you're good. But going back to this case, it's the same thing. It's even the way they gathered the evidence. Who uses a leaf blower to find evidence? Like what the heck is going on here? And, you know, they put evidence in solo cops, just, you know, whatever. It sounds all fishy to me. Like, how do you do this? And, you know, and then also when you're testifying, you're,

You don't sign any of the reports. You don't make any of the reports, but you are there. You're the one collecting the evidence, but you are not the one that makes the report. This is the guy we're talking about, this Yurt guy. He is the one that gathered the evidence, he says, but he doesn't write the report.

John Proctor writes the report. Yeah, he won't sign off. He's the ultimate supervisor of the whole thing, so he has to know what's going on. Yeah. So he has to sign off on them. And, you know, some of them, there are his initials on it. And...

He just he's so defiant against the defense. He won't answer questions. He just draws everything out and is as difficult as he possibly can be. Yeah, absolutely. And that seems like all the witnesses for the prosecution, everybody they call.

It's obvious that any time the defense cross examines them, they're just assholes. They want it's almost like, hey, I'm on I'm not on your team. I am on the prosecution team. And that's what it is. I mean, in in trials and when you're convicted or or a prosecutor brings a case against you.

You are against that team because it is, there are teams in courts. It is prosecution and it is defense. It is you versus the state. There's a literal reason why when you see that subpoena or you see that court document or doc, and it says, okay,

you know, say Ross versus the state of South Carolina, you verse the entire state, all of their powers and all of their, everything they have to bring against you. It is you and whoever, and whatever money you hire against the full might and power and force of the state and all the taxpayers that pay all of their salaries to make sure that you go to jail. And, you know, unfortunately I, I often say this, it's like, and I think even what's her name?

Emily Baker, you know, she used to be a prosecutor and she's like, there's been many times actually that I didn't want to prosecute and they were adamant on prosecuting. And she's like, I ain't fucking doing this. Yeah. She had like fights with them in the office. And we are doing this. So you can either be in or out. And then she's like, well, I'm out, you know, and obviously this is Los Angeles. So that makes sense. You had, um, you had George Gascon, but, uh, very interesting. Let's listen to some more of this retired sergeant.

that's, you know, that's a hundred dollar question. Uh, I, I, you know, I used to kiss my children goodbye every shift that I go out and not knowing whether I'd come back, uh, safe or sound. And, uh,

The thin blue line, the culture is there, but at what point do you say to yourself, wait a minute, we're talking about a murder here. This isn't an insignificant event that we're going to back each other up. And there's no way – I mean, look, we're rational people.

It's not likely that someone said, I'm going to kill this guy. Something happened. Tempers flared. Lots of alcohol was consumed. Sarge, you got a audit, right? You've got some actual paperwork that came out about this investigation. What can you share? Yes, there was a there was a very, very, very contentious vote in the town, obviously,

Back in October, I think it was October of last year, and it was to petition the funding for an audit, an outside independent audit to come in and check the police department. And I have – I could show you. Here is basically – if you don't mind me showing these just quickly, here's basically –

I guess there's a total of six of a hundred. Well, yeah, I mean, it talks, there's 206 pages here, Billy of, um, table of contents. And then what I want to tell you is that they did come to a conclusion and here is the evidence pack, um, from the audit, the summarization, which they're going to go over, uh, Saturday at the,

An independent on-site audit, an independent audit from location of the town of Canton Police Department. Okay. Yes. Yes, sir. Correct. And what did it—in short, it said a terribly botched investigation. Correct.

Yes, they conducted the investigation from November 18th until just, I believe, March 31st or 30th. But they address...

of evidence and crime scene searches, and they basically found some serious issues, which is on this page here. I could read it to you, or I can basically say that... All right, we'll pause there with that, because he's talking about this independent investigation audit, and it says that they completely, completely effed this up. Last clip I will play. This is what this same sergeant said.

about a particular instance of something that he thought about with this case. Listen,

And John O'Keefe's body was found out in the lawn. There was only a couple of inches of snow at that time. And if he lost a great volume of blood, which the autopsy showed, Billy, there would have been a pool of blood magnified around his body under his head where he would have drained out had he died there. So do the math. That blood issue is going to become very important, as is the taillight. And I was the one that brought the taillight into the arena because a friend of mine who worked on the job owned it.

body shop and he actually took the taillight out, but they did no paperwork. He didn't appear in any report, no chain of custody, no supplemental report. Very, very concerning and very suspicious. You know the guy that received the taillight and took the pieces out? He took the taillight out of the vehicle, out of the sheet metal and handed it over to the state police, I believe, but there was no paperwork, no documentation anywhere.

And when I asked him who directed him to do it, he declined to tell me. Must be Michael Proctor. I don't have the receipt as to who did it because he refused to tell me. But he told another retired police officer there was only a crack in that taillight and she backed into something solid. There were not 46 other pieces. Wow. Oh, my God. I mean, see, that's kind of bombshell. But let's first let's first talk about this. So he he says here and he makes a great point. Autopsy says he lost a great amount of blood.

Where's the blood? Now, Ross, I know that you wanted to say something earlier about some weird terminology about, I think it was. Well, the medical examiner is saying that it was blunt force trauma, the cause of death, blunt force trauma to the head. Yeah. And hypothermia. Yeah. Well, in hypothermia cases, there is damage to the internal organs, the stomach, the pancreas, stuff like that.

And you get what they call Wisniewskis. And it's wish, new, ski. And these Wisniewskis form in the lining of the stomach and the lining of the pancreas. And it's basically an ulcer in the stomach. And the medical examiner said, you know, most of her cases that involve...

have these spots in the internal organs. And they had asked her, you know, most of them that the cause of death of hypothermia is a 50% or more. Right. And 50% or more of the internal of the stomach is covered by these Wisniewskis. Right. Yeah.

So they said, well, what was John O'Keefe? She said about 10 to 15 percent. Yeah, it's not even close to 50 percent. So the cause of it could be he could have started into hypothermia. His body core temperature was only 80 degrees, which is hypothermic and actually severe hypothermic. And so, you know, but where was the frostbite if he was out there for six hours? Mm hmm.

No gloves. In 18 degree temperature, 23 to your mile an hour winds. No jacket. You're going to have frostbite. Yeah, no jacket, no gloves, no anything. Right. And no frostbite. That doesn't make sense to me. And then when they examined the organs, 15 to 20 percent, it's not even close to 50 percent, saying it was hyperthermia, which means that his body was put out there.

out there allegedly yeah well and also you gotta think too if his core body temperature is 80 degrees or somewhere around there and say he did die at 1230 ish or somewhere around this time frame and yet they did not find him until what's 530 605 or 604 and it's snowing you got snow on top of you you got all

all of these various aspects of mother nature that is happening. You have literally you're, you're, you're like in a freezer and you're telling me that if he would have died, which maybe he didn't die. If Karen Reed did hit him at, you know, what, you know, 12, something, 45, whatever time it was, maybe he didn't die right away, but you know, likely he would have died not long after. And I would think that the body temperature, core body temperature would have been less unless he was not,

Yet dead, right? I mean, that's the question. They already know how long it takes to die in the cold. Yeah. And let's talk about that for just a second. How long to die in the cold, meaning how long to die in the cold? Because this is a big, big thing, in my opinion, if I was a juror and I heard this, this is Jen McCabe. She OK, this is what gets really freaky, guys.

She texts this and it's the original text was at 245 Ross. 227. 227 in the morning. How long to call to die in the cold? And let me real quick. That was just after she searched it. Higgins called Brian Albert. Yes. Yes.

Well, he was at the police office. At Canton PD. Yes. So then that's a video also. Yeah, we're about to get into that, too. So here is the analyzation of Higgins going to Canton Police Department. And this is footage. So whenever we see footage, we'll break it down. We'll pause. We'll talk. We'll talk about it. But this was footage. And this is from micro dots, a YouTube channel. I think he's done an amazing job.

On this breakdown, he also did it for the I guess the tipping off from the judge potentially to the prosecution. But let's listen. This is Brian Higgins, the guy that a lot of people think may have had something to do. We don't know. We have no idea. But let's just theorize that maybe he had something to do with this. If you want to theorize on that side, we don't know. But this is what micro dots is.

Video analysis breakdown of Higgins going to Canton Police Department after allegedly John O'Keefe was hit by Karen Reid. And what time was this, Ross? Like two or not? One thirty. One thirty after he left 34 Fairview. Let me I got another point out from it's kind of from the first trial, but they interviewed Higgins on the stand. And he said when he left, he did not see anything on the front lawn.

Huh? At one 30 and he, you know, had his plow lights on his vehicle. So it was really bright. There was, there was no way he would have missed it. The, he said, I think they said the, from the house to the Jeep was about 30 feet down the driveway. So it, you know, it's maybe, maybe 50 yards all the way across the property. How would you miss a body? Exactly. And he's a trained medical medic or military medic and,

So he's trained to observe things that are out of the ordinary. Okay. Let's listen to the clip. Go ahead. Sometime before 1.26 a.m., Brian Higgins walks outside, gets into his Jeep, never sees the body of a man over six feet tall lying directly beneath the flagpole, despite it being illuminated by the powerful plow lights mounted on the front. No sneaker, no shards of reflective plastic on the road in front of him.

And also this video description is literally showing Higgins pointing towards the flagpole. So these bright lights of his plow and his vehicle are shining right towards the flagpole. So you would have potentially been able to see a body laying in there in the yard at this time. And we'll link this video below. Yeah, we'll link it for sure. Brian Higgins then drives away from 34 Fairview Road.

It's 1.26am. We will first see Brian Higgins arrive to the police station as viewed from the rear parking lot camera.

It is mounted on the back corner of the Sally Port garage. The red circle represents where he parks. So he parks in the parking lot. He's coming into the parking lot now. This is right outside of Canton PD. He is going around. He is now parking next to a pickup truck. Is he in a Jeep? He exits the vehicle.

He's now exiting his Jeep that has the plow in front. It's pouring the snow, by the way. There is a bright light in the parking lot. He is getting out of the vehicle, and he is now walking kind of through the parking lot. The surveillance video picks up his iPhone's true-depth facial ID camera, scanning his face. This means he's looking directly into his device. Yeah, it's showing him looking at his phone. He hesitates momentarily, looks back at the Jeep, looks into his phone, then continues looking.

While he's outside, Brian will be using his phone quite a bit. Next, we see him pass in front of the small island containing a tree and a light pole. The camera is mounted here. So now he's walking right by in a hoodie going towards the police department into a door. He walks to the entry on the church side of the sallypord and is picked up by the camera at the top corner of the main building.

He's now walking into the building and coming through the hallway. At 1.28, he walks down the first floor corridor. He enters this room for 1 minute and 39 seconds before returning to the hallway. This door leads to the communications center. Here's how we know. The camera we are viewing from is located here.

We can trace his steps through the interior of the police station, entering the first floor corridor and then moving directly to the comm center. The comm center is manned at all hours. It would be the first place you'd go to find out if anything unusual has been reported, like a woman calling to say she dropped her boyfriend off at a party and hasn't heard from him since. And it's just on the other side of that glass. We attempted to decipher the words written on this sign.

I believe it reads Authorized Personnel Only. He takes a quick look down the hall, perhaps to see if anyone is present, then takes a right and moves out of view of the cameras. From here, he could have taken one of three doors. To his left and right are offices. Straight ahead is an entryway which leads to the front wing of the building, with also a stairwell that he could have taken to go upstairs to the second floor.

Here's the second floor layout. If he did come up here, he would have exited the stairwell at this point, and based on the timeline, he certainly had the time to do it.

So I want to pause here for just a second. Ross, he's going into communications. Obviously, maybe is he trying to find out that has there been anything reported? Is there anybody that, you know, have you got any calls on anything? I mean, why would he be here at 1.30 in the morning? And you're talking about this is when this is where 911. Yeah, 911. That's correct. Yeah, they, you know, dispatches the hub of the whole city, really. I mean, you're going to dispatch fire, ambulance, police, fire.

We had city workers we could talk to and everything like that. So, you know, this is the actual control hub of the entire city. And anything that comes through, any 911 calls, that's where they're going to pick it up and that's where they're going to dispatch it from. So he would have all the information of anything that's happened since, you know, all night since they came on anyway, probably around 10 or 12.

So, you know, that's the best place to hang out if you want to know what's going on. And he was there at 1.30. And supposedly he was ran over by Karen at 12.30. Yeah. Right. All right. Here we go.

It seems to have numerous cameras in place inside and out. It's peculiar, then, that the exact footage that would show us where Higgins went for those crucial minutes is conspicuously missing. Are we really expected to believe there are no security cameras operating inside the communications centre? The very place where police interact with the public face-to-face through glass every day, and not a single other camera in the building that could show us where Brian Higgins went.

So there's no cameras in communications offices, Ross? Well, we had one, but it didn't pick up sound. It would show the entire dispatch, but there are very confidential computer screens in there that show like driver's license information, insurance information, warrants, any type of in-house computer system, stuff like that. So that was the stuff that we absolutely could not show the public. Yeah. Okay. All right.

officials have proven their willingness to tamper with and withhold crucial evidence. Therefore, it's just as important to consider what was not provided as it is to examine what was. Four minutes and 36 seconds later, he reappears in the main corridor and proceeds to leave the same way he came in. He just reached into his pocket for his phone and now has it in hand, but he waits.

The second he steps outside of the building, he starts using his phone again. It's already up to his ear. It's worth noting he stayed off the phone while inside, at least from what we can see, meaning he likely placed a call as soon as he had privacy again.

All right. I want to stop here. Ross, you had said something and mentioned something earlier. About butt dials. Well, butt dials. What is the deal with butt dials? Do we know anything about Higgins and his calls during this time? Maybe when he was at Canton Police Department. Yeah. How long did he just say he was at the Canton PD? I thought he said like 40 minutes or something. No, it wasn't. It wasn't. He was inside of Canton Police Department about five or six minutes or so. Okay. Um,

I don't remember what time the butt, they claim they're what they're called butt dials, but with an iPhone, it's impossible to have a butt dial. You'll have to have, you have to hit too many buttons, too many screens to get back to something. He had, there was a phone call that was missed. I want to say it was around two 20, but that would seem different for the timeline. Now, if it was just a few minutes, he was there, but, and there was a call that he called back. He missed a call from Brian Albert. And then he called Brian Albert back and,

Or vice versa. And then they had a 22 second conversation, which he does not recall the phone call, the conversation or anything. And he says that you can't have a conversation in 22 seconds. Yeah. Which you have. You definitely can. Oh, you can. Hey, have you heard anything? No, I haven't. You know what's going on? Well, I'll be back over there. You know, I'm bringing this and this from the vehicles and I'll be there in just a little bit.

But he was supposedly supposed to be there to move the vehicles around because of the snowstorm. Yeah. Right. And he actually went to a – it looked like a Ford Edge, which was something that was shown in front of 34 Fairview around 3.30 in the morning. But –

He got into the vehicle, started it up, hit the brake lights, which I'm assuming that's to start it, and then cleared off the windshield with the wipers and then got out, went to a truck, did the same thing. So it kind of looked like they'd been moved. Yeah. But he does, the video doesn't pick him up moving it. Yeah. And we're going to get to that right now, Ross. And he's walking out here going back. Higgins enters frame right and approaches the Jeep still with the phone to his ear.

Do we know anything about his calls at this time? Like 140? I don't know. I don't know what timeline we're on at this point. I think it's about probably 140 in the morning. See, I don't, I don't know. I don't know that they've, I'm sure they picked them up on his, maybe I just missed them. Okay. Um, let's listen to a little bit more of this and we'll explain kind of what this video talks about. One other thing real quick, Brian Higgins did not turn his phone over. So they never did an extraction on his phone to find all these phone calls. Um,

At that point. So I'm not sure where they got all the text messages. It must have just been what he turned over in, quote, good faith, which as a person at the house, like the Sergeant Murphy said, you wanted to confiscate all the phones of everybody that was there. Yeah, that's interesting. Okay. The large pickup. So he's going to a large pickup right next to you. And heads straight for the vehicle in the rear of the parking lot.

We know this because we see his long shadow moving that way behind the jeep. Higgins stands outside the vehicle briefly, then opens the door and gets inside. The taillight illuminates, indicating he starts the vehicle. It is located approximately here. He first turns on the windshield wipers, then rolls the driver's side window down to clear snow, allowing him to see. We speed up the playback while he sits inside.

He moves the vehicle off screen left. He reappears and clears both windshield wipers from a third vehicle. He stops here with his elbows bent as they would be if he was manipulating his phone in front of him. In a stance consistent with interacting with text messaging, he focuses on his device for about 18 seconds and proceeds to the rear of the Jeep and returns to open the driver's side door.

most likely to fetch the keys for the large truck, a fourth vehicle, which lights are triggered as he remotely unlocks it, then enters to start the engine. The lights flicker again when he opens the door. The truck is now on and idling, with the driver's side door still slightly open. He rolls the vehicle forward a few feet, deeper into the parking spot. He opens the passenger side door of the third vehicle, reaches in,

then walks back to the jeep and seems to do the same thing there, opening the door momentarily, then back to the third vehicle he goes, this time to access the bed. We see the black underlid of a container or tarp come up and cover the back window momentarily. He reaches in, throws a large duffel bag over his shoulder and closes the lid. The bag appears to be very large. He opens the driver's side door of the jeep,

Again, you get a clear glimpse of just how massive the bag is. He walks to the back of the jeep and places it inside, then starts up the vehicle and closes the door.

All right, so there you go. And there's a lot of kind of time in between what you're hearing because I'm going to edit this to where there is some blank space where it shows him actually moving about from one vehicle to the other. He's taking time to get the, I would say it's probably 15 seconds between each vehicle. He's getting stuff out of vehicle. He's going back to his vehicle. And in this one third vehicle, he has this massive duffel bag that he takes out of the vehicle, puts in his vehicle. Who knows what the hell is in that?

But this is, you know, oddly enough, an hour after John O'Keefe is allegedly hit. What do you guys think he's doing at this time? Why is he going to all these vehicles? I get...

that he's like turning them on and putting the windshield wipers on to maybe look like he's moving the vehicles. But he does go into more than one vehicle to remove bags out of the bag, out of the vehicles and put them into his Jeep. And one double bag is like huge. Yeah. Like, what do you think is in that double bag? And why is he doing that at one 30 in the morning?

It'll be supplies like cleaning supplies, maybe. I don't know. I mean, you could have crime scene cleaning stuff that would help clean the areas or preservation stuff, gloves. I mean, it could be anything. I've thought about that, too. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, because, I mean, obviously this is a Canton PD. This is in the lot where, you know, I don't know exactly. I mean, these look like normal vehicles, but likely they're probably not normal vehicles. They are, you know, who knows? They could be crime scene vehicles. Undercover or detective vehicles. Yeah, absolutely. Plus, what about the vehicle that he drove?

All day. You know, it was a department vehicle. He didn't drive his own vehicle all the way up and back from New York. Yeah. Right. And I want to reiterate what you said before, Ross. They didn't take his phone and discharge everything on his phone. He willingly gave up.

what he wanted to on his phone. That means that he could have left stuff out. Yeah, for sure. And so I wanted to highlight this clip because what it shows is, uh, Higgins going to Canton police department. This was an hour after John O'Keefe allegedly was hit and killed by Karen Reed. Um,

This is what the prosecution wants you to believe. But why is Higgins, especially after a long night of drinking, going to Canton Police Department, moving vehicles, doing these things, getting stuff out of vehicles, putting in his vehicle? What is he doing? And especially the fact that no one even, you know, tended to John O'Keefe until 530 ish in the morning. You know, how long did they have to potentially do stuff if it was a conspiracy? Now, I will say this.

I want to talk about briefly, like what if Karen Reed did hit and kill him, right? I mean, we got to talk about that for a second. Whether it was intentional or not, you know, she was definitely hammered. And it seems like everybody was. John O'Keefe's blood alcohol content was what, Ross, that night? 0.21 to 0.24.

So 0.21 to 0.24. So that's pretty buzz. Three times the legal limit. Yeah. Pretty buzz. And I'm sure most everybody, they were at the waterfall all night. Then they went to the party. They were drinking all night. I don't know to the extent of what everybody was drinking, but...

But likely a lot of people were buzzed and likely no different than for Higgins as well. He goes to Canton Police Department. He's doing all this stuff. But it's just like if you're out at a party and you're drinking, you're getting drunk, and then you, for whatever reason, go to Canton Police Department and do all this random shit. Well, they did have a storm coming. That was the excuse. But let me ask you guys a question.

If you are intoxicated and you're left out in the cold, wouldn't you think your blood would be thinner and you would die quicker of hyperthermia? You would think so. Well, you would also bleed out more. There's a lot of stuff that would happen when you're drunk because your blood's thinner. Which is why they had such a problem with...

the basement, but that's the conspiracy of it. So, so let me, let me talk about this. So micro dots also has a video on the judge tipping off the prosecution in a particular circumstance. Now I was going to play the clip, but I think we're not going to play the clip because I think we can kind of just explain it at one point in time. The, the defense was saying something and you know, there was a,

motion by the judge where it was like a very coordinated motion. It was, it was a non natural act to her face. It was where she brought her hand up. It was like two or three fingers. She kind of brushed it on her face and she kept looking multiple times. She looked at a prosecution and look and see if they were looking at her first time. She looked, they, you could kind of tell she knew they weren't looking at her and

And then the second time she looked, I think she realized that they were finally looking at her and she did this motion on her face. And it was as soon as she said that they said they called and they said objection. And then she was immediately ready. She she she had like a smirk on her face.

It's where it was pretty much. It's a giant smile. Yeah. Back in the last thing. Yes. Yeah. And the motion, it was like her three fingers going against her cheek or something like us, you know, like what you see in baseball, for example. Yeah. Yeah. Signal. Yeah. And that's exactly what maybe it was. I mean, we don't know for sure, but we do know. And, and I had something else to point out too, for those that don't know about this judge and we got to talk about this a second. Um,

Uh, here is what, what this kind of breaks down to. It was, uh, well, Valerie says Karen was framed to tell light was planted. The police EMS and everyone inside 34 Fairview lied to cover murder. However, the glass on the bumper is the most significant proof that Proctor planted evidence. Um, aperture is sponsoring the mass. Okay. Aperture.

Now, for those who don't know who Aperture is, isn't Aperture the guy that he's the liar for his bachelor degree, right? Yes. So Aperture is sponsoring the Massachusetts Bar Association, while Judge Beverly Smythe

Canon or whatever, however the hell you say her name, Kenoni is the she is the person of the year for the Norfolk County Bar Association. And it just so happens that the CW uses multiple experts from Aperture. So this is the Commonwealth Association.

of this trial. They use multiple experts from Aperture and yet Aperture is who presented the shithead. What's his name? Shannon. Shannon with an N. Yeah. So they present Shannon to try to make him out like he's this huge expert. And they say he has a bachelor's degree. And then when the defense kind of really broke down that shit, well, he don't have a bachelor's degree. He's been working on for 18 years.

And so she has been awarded this big thing with the bar association, the same people that aperture continually uses is all some weird connections to a bunch of weird stuff. Now, the other thing is I wanted to make clear before we wrap this up. There was a lawyer that posted on X yesterday. It says the Karen retrial is over and done. There is no coming back from the state medical examiner.

saying this. Listen to this real quick. You did not include in your autopsy in any fashion any discussion of whether Mr. O'Keefe's injuries were consistent with a motor vehicle accident, did you? No, I did not. No, even though that's what you were told by the troopers? In fact...

There were no injuries consistent with a motor vehicle impact on Mr. O'Keefe, correct? Yes. Did you evaluate at all in your autopsy whether Mr. O'Keefe had any injuries consistent with a motor vehicle accident? I allowed that.

Yes, I did examine his lower extremities. That was protocol in any case of suspected death.

impact with the motor vehicle. So I did examine his legs and I did not see any evidence of an impact site. Bam. We're done here. We're done here. There you go. And you know, what's funny is that as they objected to the first, you know, how the defense was kind of asking that question, they did not want the jury to hear this.

They tried. Oh, did you even hear the people coughing? Yeah. But then so they re-asked the question another way. She's like, well, I have to allow this, I guess, because they ask it in the very most basic way you can possibly ask this. So I have to allow this. They tried their best. The judge tried her best and the prosecution tried their best. Do not let this in. We do not want her to say that there is zero evidence based on everything I've looked at. The state medical examiner.

that says that this looks like a accident or a vehicle impact on John O'Keefe. And then of course you have this brain surgeon guy that comes in. They want to try to wrap and twist everything he says by saying, Hey, this injury on the back of John O'Keefe's head could have happened just from falling in the ground. But the way the prosecution twist it was, it appears that it was like he whiplash from a vehicle and he hit his head with

On the freaking yard or a rock as you know, when the witness or sorry, when the jury went out and looked at a property, which then I don't know if we talked about on this, but you know, that rock that was there during the jury visit was.

was not there during the time. I mean this, and it said Albert on it and Albert was the people that own the house originally. But yet when the jury went to see the house, that people don't even live there anymore. They sold the house. So why the hell was a rock with Albert's name in front of the house? Now, in my opinion, someone wanted to keep it as a, you know, something as a framing Karen Reed. Hey, she hit him. He fell back and he said on this rock and,

You know, that's what caused the damage and that's what ultimately killed him. But when they got back to the courtroom, the judge actually did something good for once and said that that rock was not there when this incident happened. So, but do you think the judge, do you think the judge may have,

Had to say that because of either a sidebar or something else that they had talked about previously. A mistrial? Yeah. Yeah, I absolutely think she had to say that. Yeah. I'm sure she didn't want to, but there was probably so much questioning about it. Can I say something real quick? Okay, I grew up in Colorado, and we had a lot of snow, just like Massachusetts. And I'm not even saying that right. No, you're not even saying that. Okay. Okay.

When it first snows, it usually rains a little bit or it's like wet snow, right? It's not frozen snow. It's like kind of wet. And then it really snows, especially when you have a blizzard. Yeah. It's not icy snow there. It's like really fluffy snow that you want to ski in. Yeah. And they actually said that that was one of the worst storms they had in January and like the second worst storm on record.

with that storm and I guess what I'm saying is normally when you have a blizzard like that because I consider that a blizzard what I saw usually it's a mushy snow in the beginning and that's

When he had to fall, it had to be just starting to snow. I don't think the ground could have even been frozen for him to fracture his skull. No. It would have been mushy. No, but I mean, let's go try it out, Chad. No, let's not. Let's not do that. No, but there was also evidence on the that came out with the DNA and the examining the clothes and stuff. There were grass stains on the right. I'm sorry, the left.

butt cheek of his jeans where he was evidently where of course the commonwealth's going to say he was you know hit and slid in the grass but it also would be when you drag someone to a spot in the grass which also shows that when he was placed there there was not that much snow on the ground

Well, it's like it's funny because as the defense asked Jen McCabe when she was on on on the witness stand and, you know, she was all about answering questions from the local police department, the people she knew. And it was not until the outside. Less worried about John O'Keefe. Sorry. Yeah, it was not until the outside law enforcement agencies came in that she then stopped the questioning and she said, I need to call an attorney.

So, you know, it's just it's interesting because, you know, you're a friend of John O'Keefe. You know, McCabe was a friend of John O'Keefe. And yet she had to stop the questioning because she felt like she needed an attorney. And and, you know, there's a lot to be said about that. We talked about that pretty extensively in the first episode. But Ross, where do you see this case going? Like, are they doing better? The prosecution in this trial than they did the first trial, do you think?

I think they're doing better. Like I said, their whole case is her hitting him, her saying I hit him, all this evidence that I don't see how you can see that it was not planted. Yeah. And, you know, there's foolery going around between the judge and the prosecutor. The jury has been questioned. I mean, there's so much going on. I just saw a post where

Jessica Hyde, one of the technical examiners from Aperture also, had said that they were looking for some experts to testify and that they were offering $350 an hour to anybody that would say whatever Brennan wanted them to say. Interesting. And yet we have Shannon Burgess, who's a complete fraud. Yeah.

Yeah, that makes sense. So, I mean, the conspiracy is everywhere. It is. And all they need is a, you know, beyond a shadow of a doubt. And there is plenty of doubt. Yeah, that's true. And if you can't see it, I just I don't know what to say. You're part of the problem. I mean, but yeah, the corruption and chicaneries or whatever you want to call it is just rampant in this whole case. Yeah.

For sure. I'm excited to get to the other witnesses with the McCabe's and the Albert's and, you know, the other people, Higgins especially, and the rest of the, once the defense starts their case. And I think the prosecution is getting ready to have some accident reconstructionists come in and, you know,

Just pay attention to that, and you're going to see that it's going to be like the Billy Madison thing where, you know, everything you just said just made us dumber. Yeah, yeah. Well, I wonder if they're going to put the little piece of hair that they found after 60 miles of traveling on a –

The little hair that could. Yeah, the little hair. Yeah, that's what we should call it. The little hair that could. Because this little hair, and they clearly show it in the pictures. It looks like a C and then it looks like a J. And I don't care what perspective you look at it. The hair changed. And how does the hair stay on a car for 60 miles being towed in a blizzard?

On an elevated flatbed tow truck. Yeah. And that's what the glass, the girl was able to take the glass out with a little tweezer. Tweezers. It was not embedded. It was not embedded in her car. It was not anything. She just picked it up and put it in her little sample case. And there we go. Yeah. They, they analyzed that glass and stuff and it didn't match anything. There was one little piece, I think that matched the glass that was broken, but everything else didn't match.

Whatever they were looking at it for. Wow. Yeah. And I think with the hair, they're trying to prove that it was John O'Keefe's hair. But I guess they did analyze it and it could be anyone in his family on his mother's side. But still, I would like to do an experiment.

And somehow take a car in the middle of a blizzard and drive it, you know, 60 miles an hour and see if the hair sticks. Yeah. If you duct tape it, it will. Yeah, no joke. Or if you just plant it, that could also happen. There's a lot to this. There's going to be bombshell evidence, I think, come out in the coming weeks and the close of this trial. So we will continue to follow this.

Ross, thank you so much for coming on our show. We're definitely going to bring you back on the next iteration of the Karen Reed trial guys out there listening. Anybody that wants to listen to episodes kind of like this, but not trial. We talk about conspiracy. We just had a book of Enoch episode. We've had, uh,

tons of stuff, new world order, you name it, make sure you go and follow our podcast, share our episode, wherever you do social media. Ross, thanks again. Hey, I just want to give a big shout out to Nick running for sheriff from everything I've heard from your podcast and you guys talking about him and everything. He would definitely be someone I would want to vote for if I lived in your area, which I don't. So, but good luck to him and the people of South Carolina. And I think he's going to be a great addition to that sheriff's department.

I agree. Thank you again for having me on here. I really appreciate it. My, I guess, email. I don't necessarily want to get the email out, but I'm on different platforms. I'm on the Telegram. You can find me if you come onto the Telegram site. Investigator podcast. There you go. So it's under Ross with another name beside it. Maybe I can say it on this podcast, but.

Now you guys are going to go search Ross to see his other name. Yeah. Come on to Telegram and maybe chat. I'll post it in the comments. What my actual screen name is. Yeah, no, we will. We have Telegram. Obviously, guys, you can follow us on X, Facebook, Instagram, all of that. And we do have off. I mean, we have live streams all the time on Telegram to where it's not just us. It's like all of you talking. So anybody, the ones coming to talk to us or some of our other listeners, we talk a lot.

And we talk about upcoming podcast or stuff that we're never going to talk about on the podcast. We talk about it. We're like a big family over there. We're a big family here for sure. Absolutely. But telegram is like, we have really, uh, grown very close to a lot of people there, which is why Ross is on here. And it's why James was on here. And it's why, uh,

we've had other people there are true friends yeah absolutely really yeah so guys go check out our telegram ross thanks again um not a problem that's gonna do it for us this is wait forever by hallman we're gonna close it with the same stuff we opened it with until next time guys we love you peace out peace out you

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