US Treasury pressure cooker heating up once again
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Welcome to the Saxo Market Call. Before we get started, it's important we emphasize that the views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not constitute investment advice or recommendations.

All information provided is for educational and entertainment purposes only. All right, it is Thursday, 22nd of May, 2025. We're doing an All Singing, All Dancing podcast. I've got Ola Henson here in the studio on commodities, and we have a slide deck today. So you can find the link to the slide deck in the podcast description. Lots of materials for you, lots of links to some particularly interesting reads, I think, at least, today. So enjoy that.

And let's get started. Yeah, so we finally saw a down day, a proper down day in equities yesterday, clearly spooked by a weak U.S. Treasury auction. This was a 20-year Treasury note auction yesterday.

at the usual time yesterday. And this is kind of interesting. It's a bit of a weak point on the yield curve. You can slide forward to the next slide and see how it actually is often above, slightly above the 20-year yield, the benchmark yield, slightly above the 30-year yield, which is a bit more popular because that's sort of the max duration you can get

U.S. Treasuries. In any case, getting significantly above 5% for that 20-year yield. Again, the concern here is that the U.S. fiscal trajectory is unsustainable. You have this big, beautiful bill making its way sausage factory-like through Congress with some latest additions. Last minute, I think we're even getting updates in European Morning suggesting they're very late in Washington trying to get this through the House.

Little tweaks to how much Medicaid will be allowed or what the work requirements are for that. Elimination of clean energy tax breaks and all kinds of other small things. We'll have to see if this passes, what the reaction point is if it does. But importantly, it will also have to get passed by the Senate before Trump can sign it. So the deadline is getting rather narrow towards this Memorial Day ambition they have. But very important to see if it passes. And I think this U.S. Treasury Market Yield –

Our yield move is very interesting because we are into these key levels. If you look at the 30-year, it closed yesterday at 5.09%. That is the highest weekly close since 2007 is at 5.07%. So, yes, we saw some intraday or intraweak highs that were higher back in that episode. I believe it was in late 2023. But we're at these levels that are too high.

for relative to where inflation is and suggests strain on the US treasury market. And what is the US treasury going to do about that? What is the Fed going to do about that? Some really key questions. I've got a great podcast, not a podcast, but a great tweet, a very long tweet discussing, I think, some issues that I think I'll delay the implications of that and combine it with my discussion of that very interesting tweet later in the podcast.

What else? Yeah, so we also had Google unveiling at its I.O. event this AI mode chatbot, a clear direct competition here with Perplexity and ChatGPT for the way that people are using those as sort of search engines or ways to do research online. We've mentioned that before as well here.

And interesting to note that Google was the number one gainer on the S&P 500 yesterday. So this was seen as an important step in sort of shoring up its case against this type of competition.

In FX, the dollar remains lower. Dallian really continued to push lower. And EURUSD, after a nice little test today, surviving a 1.13 test on some weak preliminary PMI, especially on the services in France and especially Germany, the services hitting down at the preliminary May 1, hitting down at 47.2 versus 49.5 expected. Pretty ugly there, but EURUSD rebounding, emphasizing the dollar weakness is sticking here.

And then in your space, Ole, Platinum making waves with a very big move. There's a lot of range left to go. If you look back, it's a multi-year range, but still a very big move yesterday.

We'll be talking about that. What else will we be talking about in the commodity space today? Yeah, definitely the platinum breakout and then just generally the major themes right now. They're actually renewed haven demand and drought focus lifting some of the key crops. Yeah, and as well, I think some of that metal interest could be, again, on this sort of fiscal concerns, fiscal forward trajectory, risks of financial repression, etc.

could could gin up interest in hard assets. Finally, I want to mention the crypto. I've been a bit tardy in bringing out the fact that one of the drivers here for the crypto resilience and even record highs yesterday and overnight in crypto is this so-called genius act passing through Congress that it really is opening the way for for, you know,

regulating the crypto space in a way that is seen as positive for the space in general, especially around stable coins and how they operate. I think the grand irony in the long run is that stable coins will become a way to sort of connect the crypto regime, which was meant to be sort of this libertarian outlaw place where you went to have value outside of the system, fight the system, man, or whatever. And it ends up becoming a part of the system that you can sort of get backing for your treasury funds

market as a sovereign by ensuring that stable coins have to hold something, and that something is likely going to be treasuries. And hey, if you don't hold treasuries, by the way, your stable coin is not legal tender here, even in the crypto space in the USA. That's the kind of cynical take I would have. But

Hey, it's important for the crypto space, obviously for the liquidity and the ability for it to continue to operate and for it to become more institutionalized, this ease of getting in and out and trust in stable coins, et cetera. It's a very important gateway into the system. So it's not to make too much fun of it, but yeah.

That is the – I think one of the proximate drivers here. And therefore, if that's the proximate driver, that type of news, yes, it's positive for crypto. But is crypto remaining this sort of leading edge liquidity indicator, leading edge indicator on all things risk on, risk off, which it kind of has been very tightly correlated with, for example, the NASDAQ 100? Or could we see a correlation shift, which is becoming –

an outlet for maybe a little bit of fear around the whole deal, the system, financial repression, interest in alternative assets. That was what it was meant to be originally. So I just be open, keep our minds open to what what crypto is and its moves are representing. And then I just briefly on slide four, this was the chart that I touted, I think, two podcasts ago from Michael Green on showing and mapping

how the coincident and leading indicators come and go. And when they're in extreme, there's an extreme divergence where the leading indicators are showing a powerful rise versus coincident indicators dragging and vice versa, which is what we have now. In other words, leading indicators and some of the sentiment indicators are extremely weak, whereas the coincident indicators are just sort of charging right on ahead.

I misstated the case that usually when you're at this level, you're warming up for a recession. But usually when you're at this level, actually in history, in other words, the leading indicator is doing so poorly, you are already sort of getting into a recession.

And we should have been by now. And I'm going to connect that again to this interesting tweet I'm just talking about. So the curious thing about this cycle, as you can see on that slide, is that we've yawned this wide in the leaning indicators suffering so badly relative to the coincident ones without seeing the real signs of pain in the economy.

Every previous experience showed us experiencing pain in the economy at this point. Does that mean we're going to have bigger pain just with a bit more delay? Is this a false signal? Are we in a new era? Is this time different? I don't know, but it's just a very fascinating thing when something that's supposed to happen every single darn time since the 1960s isn't working. And again, I'll connect that to the tweet later on.

The earnings slide, slide five, NVIDIA, the big one next week. Put a chart there on the five-year chart. It's tempting to start drawing head and shoulder patterns in your head, but we haven't completed that right shoulder, so it's not there yet. Things that have not been drawn are not there yet. So let's see where this takes us. I think it really is critical for the sentiment broadly in the market, how NVIDIA is doing. Let's recall NVIDIA reached these levels it's currently at way back in mid-2024. So we've gone...

the better part of a year without really progressing to and sticking to new highs in the superhero stock of our age. Dell, another interesting name, was an AI angle and data center angle there as well next week and a couple other names. But it is pretty slim pickings otherwise in earnings season. And then finally, for my part, at least on the market coverage here, I just wanted to run through a quick thing before we get over to Ola and this really interesting move in Platinum.

Also, maybe what the potential is for silver, et cetera. The FX situation, so we're seeing a reasonably deepening dollar down move. You can see that on slide six with that increasing strength of the dollar negative reading on the trending indicator.

The yen is so far only sort of picking up notice on its change of momentum to the positive side. The outright reading is not yet positive, but it's showing some signs of knocking on the door and getting towards some interesting levels elsewhere besides a dollar yen. So I'm looking especially at Aussie yen for an actual trend change pretty soon. Euro yen and sterling yen.

are on tilt as well and could be actually entering an outright downtrend, which would put the yen at the top of the charts in terms of its strength, I think, in major currencies. And then you see that very strong Norwegian kroner reading, which I find quite interesting, as –

A theme has developed that was mentioned in a Russell Napier podcast that I touted in one of our podcast links some time back, talking about if we're in a new era here of this whole Trump administration being about ironing out and resetting the global system to avoid the massive U.S. trade deficits, that brings with it the need to change the direction of capital flows.

Because if you're running a large trade deficit, that means you have to have capital coming into your country to offset that trade deficit. So that would mean a reversal in capital flows as well as trade flows. And on that account, something like the Japanese yen makes sense to see its strength because it's traditionally a huge capital surplus country. It's all these Japanese savings, legendary savings, running all over the world and finding things to buy, especially bonds traditionally. Other countries...

develop huge surpluses as well. And relative to the size of the economy, the Norwegian surpluses are massive, of course, due to its oil and gas production. So on that note, it's interesting to see, roll forward to slide seven, that Dollar Norway or Dollar Nockie

A slide we've seen, it's picked up recently. There's a little bit of a right angle here as Norwegian rates have picked up, but just a pretty tremendous move off 11.5 to, you know, we're getting towards 10 now this year. A very significant move. But look at that weekly chart on the left.

I mean, that move is absolutely nothing compared to where Dalarnauki has gone since the 2009, basically, of the global financial crisis. Part of the reason for that, Norway, all those funds that the oil and gas throws off in Norway, they plow those into global markets knowing that there is not much of a place domestically to save up.

You don't have a big Norwegian sovereign bond market, et cetera. So there's no reason to have anything in NOKI. But with this potential reversal and this theme, reversal in capital flows and this theme of net international investment position in IIP, and just looking at the valuations, could this be something that's headed towards nine or even eight in the coming couple of years? So

That's not a prediction. It's just a question mark and we're from a very different starting point in something like dollar versus nauti than for especially dollar versus the Swiss franc where the Swiss franc has constantly and widely been recognized as one of these big surplus capital countries. And I think we'll see the Swiss National Bank actually trying to lean against too much for the Swiss franc strengthening.

All right. Ola, you're a very patient man listening to me bang on about currencies. But let's switch the focus over to commodities. The weather situation, it's freezing cold here in Denmark on May 22nd for some reason. I think it was five degrees centigrade this morning when I jumped in my car. But weather is an issue here and especially drought. And I don't know if heat is part of that.

Indeed. In the US. Indeed. And yeah, it was cold this morning. I felt that as well on my bike. I thought it was summer, but it's not. But it's also interesting that we are actually getting a bit of rain now and it's almost for the first time in three months. And this kind of drought we've seen in Scandinavia and I think down in Europe as well is also what is an emerging theme that we

We are seeing and hearing Russia's biggest wheat production area has been struggling. There is a heat wave in China right now hurting some of their production areas. And then we saw a downgrade to the wheat condition in the U.S. on Monday.

that took the market by surprise so um so maybe we just have to be a little bit uh concerned about it let's just skip straight through to uh just to get that uh just to talk that one through to slide 10. we have highlighted wheat and it's a bit like the norwegian kroner chart that that you can hardly see that move we've seen in in in the past week we just um we're struggling uh bumping along some multi-allows but uh we are seeing a pickup and what what is this this is just simply just highlighting is the fact that market has been ample supplied

But it's really only ample supply and anticipation of a normal harvest. And if that starts to be called into question, then obviously there could be a change. So it's just one I think we need to be a little bit aware of

At the same time, for the reason that we've been trading in a downward sloping trend, for the reason that the market generally tends to be in contango, basically meaning that the front price trades lower than future price levels, if you look at the futures curve, that basically meant that Speckler has been trading weak from the short side for 149 weeks. We have never seen that before. So it's just a very, very prolonged period of holding net short positions. So we're

Just be aware of that if we continue to see some of these headlines starting to underpin prices. And then the tricky bit here for those that don't speculate or trade, especially something like the grains, is that when you do have these low prices, you're always, nearly always in, or I guess you're always in, quite significant contango. So that forward price, let's say two, three, four contracts forward, is significantly higher than

than the current price. So it means that you've already sort of built into the forward curve that prices are going to rise, or you could put it that way, or that you have a roll yield that is negative if you're long. So basically you have to have this weather situation deepen and for those two, three contracts out prices, I guess, to really start to spike significantly on a multi-month, multi-contract roll basis,

to make a profit in a long trade. Indeed, and it really has to start somewhere, and it has to start in the spot market, and that's basically the availability of supply. So that's one we'll be watching. So that's a theme that seems to...

what has emerged in the last week or so. If we just move back to slide eight, the others highlighted in yellow is the precious metals where we're seeing strong moves and the one that really stands out is obviously platinum.

At the same time, we also have gold. I just put the chart in there, the gold chart. We've been in a small downtrend now. It seems like we are reversing that. If we do take out that 33.55 level, that would be the 61.8, and that would basically, retracement, that would basically indicate that the correction from a technical perspective is over. So that's one to watch. But platinum is really the one that has attracted a lot of interest this week.

Coincidentally, it's happening together at the same time we're having the Platinum Week in London, basically where industry insiders meet. This has normally not been a great week for Platinum in recent years simply because Mario has been depressed about the falling automobile or demand from the automobile sector.

and so on. But this year the tone seems to have shifted somewhat. It started on Monday when the World Platinum Investment Council released their quarterly outlook, basically pointing out that we are seeing another third annual supply deficit in the platinum market, which is primarily produced in South Africa. Basically means that in order to meet the demand, you have to reduce above ground inventories. And obviously that can only carry on for so and so long until we actually encounter a real situation of tightness.

And what has really changed, I think we just simply have to look at some of the other markets. 10 years ago, platinum was trading 2,300, gold was trading 1,000. 10 years later, platinum trades 1,000 and gold trades 3,500.

If you are an investor in metals or in jewelry as such, you would look at these massive shifts and say, well, hang on. Maybe platinum is actually relatively cheap right now. And as a store of value, it's okay as well. Central banks, okay, they do not buy platinum, but the availability of platinum around the world is relatively small. So if there is a pickup in investment demand for platinum, then we could see prices start to move. And that's really, I think...

The signs of that we are seeing now starting to come through. This week we've seen headlines from China where Chinese investors, so the demand for bars, for coins and for jewelry is picking up simply because they're looking at platinum as a switch away from, partly a switch away from gold. So,

Let's see what happens. As per the chart, this is a phenomenal break. It's the 17-year downtrend since 2008, that peak I mentioned at 2300. But you can also see that for now it's mostly a range extension because obviously we were running out of space. So we need to expand that space where we trade within. So there's still multiple levels that we need to take out. And I'll say, John,

Really, $1,300, we need to take that out in order to talk about a change in direction, don't we? Yeah, and let's not forget, I mean, we've had an era of inflation here, and these are nominal prices. If you adjusted this to the US CPI, that 10-year going nowhere-ish ish.

in platinum, it means that we're at extremely low prices in the chain dollar term. So it's really a tantalizing situation. But as you indicated, as a technician would say, is, yeah, we have a great momentum, single impulse momentum bar here, but oh my goodness, all the levels overhead. Yeah, no, it was just, I was not wearing my glasses, so I couldn't even see my red Fibonacci line. It's actually 1,200, not 1,300. So 1,200 is the

is the, I would say, the first major level that if we take that out, we could start considering whether we've seen a turn in the market. It does obviously need the continued demand from the investment community. I think that we will see that pick up in the coming weeks simply because we had this technical breakout. So momentum chasers will get involved. So we'll probably see ETF holdings rise. We'll see futures speculators' interest rise as well. But generally, it has to be the...

So we have to see the gold continue to hold these levels and potentially take higher for, I think, for it to really to unfold. So watch gold as well in the coming weeks for some inspiration here. It's also kind of tantalizing to think, I've seen the comment that the gold price move could begin to lift.

hard assets otherwise. And then is this the first sign of that? And if so, then the one you'd like to see move significantly would be silver. And I've just been so frustrated as somebody who has long just enjoyed the volatility of silver relative to gold, at least traditionally it hasn't been the case this time around.

It really is that $35 level that needs to be taken out, I guess, on silver before we can really argue something is going on there. Indeed. And in the very short term, that $33, $68, $70-ish area, I think we hit that level once again overnight. That was a level where we got rejected three times last month. So keep an eye on that level. But yeah, considering how steep the drop was following Liberation Day, it just –

highlights one that you need to have nerves of steel to sit on a position in silver for a longer period of time simply because volatility at times can be quite great and go against you quite a bit. All right. Thanks, Ole, for joining today. And I'll take you out with the rest of the slide deck and a couple of these links, which I think really sparked some interesting questions in my mind. And I think you'll find it interesting as well. So,

On the calendar, we have the jobless claims up today. I've lost hope in seeing this indicator ever move, but of course we need to track it later today out of the U.S., those jobless claims. And the CPI number out of Japan overnight could be key. Could Japan in its policy mix look to actually raise its policy rate slightly if the CPI does not come back down or as maybe part of shorting up its credibility in the U.S. trade negotiations?

without ever explicitly saying that it's targeting the currency and then at the same time doing something, twist otherwise, to tamp down that long end. They're facing the same conundrum as the U.S. In any case, we've got a CPI release tonight from Japan. Let's keep it short. And then next week you can see all the data points there.

I don't want to really run too many of these. I think the Treasury auctions are quite interesting after what happened in the 20-year auction yesterday. And if this Memorial Day, which is on Monday, so I should have penciled in that Monday is a holiday in the U.S., if this bill, big bad or big beautiful bill, whatever you want to call it, passes through Congress. And then, of course, the NVIDIA earnings next on the 28th, which would be next –

With the Thursday, right? No, next Wednesday will be NVIDIA earnings after the close. All right. Must reads, must listens. And this was a link that was passed along to me from my good friend,

I put MV as the initials, why your models are probably broken and why AI can't help you. And I thought this was just a really pithy, even though it's quite long tweet, it's a really pithy tweet reducing a lot of the uncertainties and complexities and a lot of the sort of issues we've been bumping up against on the podcast as well. We have a fellow named Ben Kazemchuk who wrote his thoughts on an ex-post that I've put in there.

The link to and he's basically talking about why it's so difficult to predict what the heck is going to happen from here is because we're in a completely unprecedented environment because of what he calls the four major forces. This idea of fiscal dominance, which we have talked about before, that you have fiscal policy setting the agenda and that the central bank policy is very much subordinate to the needs of whatever the government.

The Treasury needs to because the Treasury's primary concern is to ensure the stability of the market. And certainly this is not going to help out with this crazy bill that we're seeing potentially passing Congress this week. Then you have financial repression. Look,

We're getting to a point where treasury yields are far, far too high for what the economy can stand, far above inflation. This means you have some real restraints on the economy. You also have a situation where because it is – and this has been pointed out on a number of podcasts that the high rates don't really help.

the US or to slow the economy necessarily when you have the structure that you have that is the sovereign, that is horrifically indebted. And therefore, when you have savers out in the economy, and a lot of private sector savers have been shoring up their balance sheets in the US and you have foreign holdings as well, you have these people, their savings are throwing off great gobs of cash in the form of coupon payments. So the high rates become

a situation where the public sector and the public debt is impoverishing itself and paying out and stimulating the economy at the same time rather than restraining it. Although, of course, there are some pockets of the economy that are restrained by higher rates. So to address that, you'll have to have some form of financial repression. You're either going to have to set the policy rates low. That's not happening now or not yet, but have to be set lower than certainly –

Then inflation, that's the only way you're going to dig yourself out of the real load of this debt relative to GDP. And you have to potentially do regulations on who holds debt. If you're going to force those returns to be poor in real terms, then you're going to have to force people to hold the debt because if they don't want to hold it, they're not going to hold it unless you force them to.

So financial oppression, fiscal dominance, passive flows. So the entire structural phenomenon that we saw coming into such incredible force on the recovery from the April lows, at least that was a considerable part of the driver. The fact that people just consistently and blindly put in month after month, week after week, indexed flows into the market. It doesn't matter what the price is, low, high, whatever. Those flows have to go in and they have to buy these securities.

And to that, you could possibly add buybacks. And then you have the whole fiat money principle here, where there's no constraint like there was in the era of the gold standard on how much money supply there is if at some point you want to just print, print, print. So there's nothing for the expert to really learn from past precedent because there's no past historical example that looked anything like today is the point Mr. Kazemchuk is making. I hope you're saying your name right, by the way. And therefore, can an AI –

which is really smart. Can an AI really be creative enough or smart enough to figure out what the heck is going to happen either? Very doubtful. I think some really key points to bring up, I encourage you to read that one.

And then just some other – some of it's some small notes, but I think it has important impacts. There's a collapse of survey quality, for example. People are not taking surveys. It could be the risk of increasing that AI bots are answering surveys. It's going to be – meaning we're going to have an increasing hard time knowing what reality is unless people are willing to pay up for very expensive surveys because you're going to have to ensure that people are actually in the room answering the surveys to know and to be able to trust the results.

A link on Argentina's Millet and an interesting bid to get all the money that people are stuffing under their mattresses for ages there to avoid the official exposure to the official Argentinian economy in local terms and to the tax man, namely, you know,

Will Mr. Millet be able to increase the trust in the system and completely transform the Argentinian economy? This would be a key part of that to get those offshore funds back onshore. It could just be a remarkable boost for the economy if so. Interesting read there for those that have an FT subscription. You can probably find it somewhere else as well.

Private equity is in a bubble, and are there systemic risks to this? I haven't even read all this article, but I think it's a key question. This private equity is a very opaque part of the market, and you have a lot of banks that have been lending large amounts into it. If there's some sort of liquidity issue, what type of bailout mechanism would there be? Would it be as bailoutable as previous episodes, et cetera, et cetera?

Ireland, an interesting one I had never thought about before, how this whole tax haven status of Ireland is a kind of a disease for the country and sort of like some sort of Dutch disease in that it prevents the economy from developing normally and is an economy without dynamism in many ways. So an interesting read, especially for the Irish listeners out there. You probably already know this if you're an Irish listener, but very enlightening to me.

And then just a small beef as an American who has gotten a different perspective from living abroad for decades and you go back and see how the tipping culture in the U.S. has gotten completely out of control. You go get a coffee and you're presented with a screen demanding, you know, do you want to tip 10, 15, 20 percent before you've even gotten your coffee?

And it was just a fascinating article talking about the origin. You can see the link there. The origin of tipping culture basically linked to, well, racism in the U.S. as it gave train lines justification for not paying their black porters any wage because they could live off the tips was the argument. It also gives the companies an excuse for not paying a living wage basically to their employees.

It's a system that's so entrenched and embedded. It's probably never going to change, but it seems like to me it has gone completely out of control. And it's just crazy to see something like the Senate voting unanimously to eliminate federal taxes on tips. Yes, you could argue that's a populist move geared towards people that aren't making much of an income.

Are people really declaring their tips anyway? How much of this is really going to result in a change in the bottom line? I have a hard time thinking that many out there in the U.S. that have a significant percentage of their wages or income in tips are declaring much of that income and that the tax, the impact isn't very much. Just a beef, just to point it out. Maybe a bit more interesting as a signal for markets and for the economy, there was a really interesting one I saw here.

That was flagged to me. There was a big Giacometti, I guess is how you say his name, a famous sculptor, a modern sculptor with some very high prices on his works. It's a $70 million bust. It failed to even sell at a Sotheby's auction. It was considered kind of spooky. There were apparently gasps going through the auction room when this happened. This is meant to be an asset class that is just bulletproof, and it's just interesting to see.

A failure like this, is this a bigger symbol or signal on what more widespread concerns among the ultra wealthy? Who knows? Interesting signal, nonetheless. And then I think some important ones here, some interesting ones here for getting a little bit of a leg up on AI and what's going on in that space and linking it to that Google news. We have Stratechery.

out with their thoughts on the Google announcements. So if you roll forward to slide 13, you can see there's a second page for the appendix on must reads. Google's IO event there at the bottom, you have Stratechery's take on the Google IO event on a podcast episode. Pretty interesting. They're saying that they're basically not so great at making products, but they're very good at doing what their core business is, which is in search.

And there's a more retail take on the event if you want to. I didn't even see all of it, but it's kind of interesting. It's interesting from that same person, that YouTube link I sent, to seeing what kind of stuff was already being – was already possible to create with Google's Veo2, Veo, V-E-O-2,

artificial intelligence, generative, artificial generative intelligence for video creation. I was blown away. I don't know how much post-editing was required for something like this short film that he made, a two-minute film. But now we have something that's even vastly more improved with the VAO3. It just...

Just to sort of check in on the progress. There's not something you're really tuned into. And there was an interesting comment as well on Stratechery from some sources saying that, look, we've created some incredible tools in AI. And outside of software programmers, we're just not sensing that there are a lot of places out there, that a lot of parts of the economy or operators in the economy and applications where they're even –

utilizing or exploring the potential here. And I think, uh, healthcare imaging, or at least healthcare was mentioned as one of those. So we're, we're getting the, uh, maybe a situation where the capabilities of this AI is, is, is far, far, far ahead of where the implications and applications have actually even started to react to it. I think that's an important perspective and we'll have to unpack that in, in coming months and, and, and maybe years on the podcast. But, um,

I like the Stratechery guys very much on the leading edge of what's going on. And then there was a fascinating one I put at the top of that slide 13 from the same Stratechery on the agentic web and original sin. I haven't even read all that yet. I was just scanning some of the headlines. I said, I really need to dig into this one. And they have a long podcast on the same subject as that article. So just a recommended listen there.

All right. We've been, I've been banging on for a long time. I hope you enjoyed this latest sort of long form version of the podcast that will again, attempt to do at least once a week with the must reads and the charts and the guests and everything else. Stay safe out there and we'll be back again soon with the next Saxo market call.