E44: Can Esports become Vietnam’s biggest entertainment export?
38:19 Share

Vietnam has always been known as a very resilient country. We don't go out without a fight. And, you know, they brought the fight right to our doorstep, but we didn't back down. We figured out a way. We were resourceful. We were able to capitalize on some mistakes that they made and be able to march back. The entire audience, like, just went nuts. Everyone was chanting G-A-M, G-A-M. That was something that people still talk about to this day. The MGM show, yeah, show, show.

Welcome to You Don't Know Vietnam, the show that demystifies Vietnam for global audiences by talking to the creatives, trendsetters and business owners who are taking on the market. Forget what you thought you knew about Vietnam, it's no longer that, as you're about to find out. I'm Ian Paynton, co-founder of We Create Content, a content marketing agency that builds audiences for global brands in Vietnam.

We make global brands relevant among Vietnamese consumers with always-on hyper-local content. On this episode of You Don't Know Vietnam, I'm speaking to GAM Entertainment CEO TK Nguyen, who leads Vietnam's most successful esports League of Legends team as they continue to represent Vietnam on the world stage.

Today, TK tells me about the explosive growth of esports in Vietnam and how it's become a legitimate sport and career for Vietnam's young people. He tells me why esports could be the thing to put Vietnam on the global entertainment map and what needs to happen to make this a reality. He breaks down what League of Legends is and why it's so damn popular in Vietnam.

60% of esports players choose to play League of Legends and 68% of esports fans choose to watch it. He also reveals what he's doing with GAM Sports and social media to truly connect with Vietnam's Gen Z and Gen Alpha audiences.

If you want to know more about esports in Vietnam, head over to our website, wecreatecontent.vn forward slash insights and check out the article, Everything You Need To Know About Esports In Vietnam. Let's get into this one.

TK, oi. Oi. Thanks for joining me on You Don't Know Vietnam. What a pleasure to have you here. It's a pleasure to be here. It's great to come off that holiday and spend some time with you and talk some eSports and talk some Vietnam. Yeah, man. Well, I've been wanting to talk about eSports for a long, long time. I think one of the most surprising things about Vietnam is just how big, A, gaming is here. Yeah. Like, ridiculously big. Yeah. And...

be just what's going on with esports. I don't think people realize how big it is. Is it possible to put it into words alone? Like what's going on in the esports world? I mean, I think esports is the fastest growing entertainment kind of vehicle. A lot of people say that gaming with the statistics that are out there is bigger than the entire movie and music industry put together, right? So it's an exciting time to be a part of gaming and esports, especially here in Vietnam.

I grew up in the US and there's so much entertainment being in Los Angeles where we have two baseball teams, two football teams, two basketball teams. There's so much. But here for Vietnam, there's such an amazing opportunity. We might not have as much entertainment, but esports is leading the way outside of football, of course, right? Football is always going to be the national sport that everyone gets behind.

And we've been able to see some success there. But with esports, we're competing on the global field here, on the global stage against, you know, North America, Europe, China, Korea. So it's really exciting times to have Vietnam, who's always seen as an underdog, representing on a big global stage like that. And just talking about like the sheer number of people, just to give you a little bit of context.

For Vietnam esports white papers, which was provided by Barisa, which is like the governing body for esports here in Vietnam. In 2023, they estimated that there's 28.2 million participants in esports and gaming. So we're talking about almost 30% of the population. And as you know, Vietnam is such a young demographic where I think more than half is under 35. So it's a really exciting time. So...

That and then you roll in with what's happening with esports globally, like the entire movement is really taking over mainstream pop culture. There was a moment of realization for me, right? We run a sports website for an American publisher. Yeah. And there was one day that the Vietnamese football team was playing. It was a friendly. Yeah. And the same day there was a League of Legends tournament. And the search traffic around the League of Legends tournament was like tenfold that of the Footballman.

Yeah. And that's what surprised me. You know, I think esports is catching up with football in Vietnam. I mean, it's definitely closing the gap quickly, but it's also because esports has such a global connectivity because it is digital. Everyone is living in this digital age where esports with Riot Games, what they're doing with League of Legends. We're in a global league that spans across the entire world. So just to give some context right now, like for GAM, our team is GAM Esports. We play in a League of Legends team.

PC game, which is the most popular PC game in the world. Our team is now going from a domestic Vietnam league where we're playing five on five. It's like high speed, multidimensional chess, right? So instead of like football, where you're playing with your, you're running on the field and it's very physical here, it's a combination of physical, which is more of like you're using your hands, but it's all about mindset and high speed problem solving.

So what you're seeing is our team here representing for Vietnam on this stage where we went from Vietnam domestically to now joining a tier one APAC Pacific League. So it's really exciting time for GAM. There's five major leagues, five major regions around the world. We're talking about North America, Europe, China and Korea and the newly formed GAM.

League of Legends Championship Pacific, which we just joined. And we just started two weeks ago, right before Lunar New Year. So the team right now is actually in Taipei getting ready for Friday's match against an Australian team. It's a global score that is connecting the world. And with Riot Games, you're talking about they have 131 million subscribers.

active users, anywhere from 20 to 35 million daily active users. And that's just League of Legends. So right now you're seeing a huge surge, especially here in Vietnam, where you're seeing Vietnam represented on the global stage. And I think that's something that inspires the youth here, you know?

So you're putting Vietnam on in Taipei. I bet there's a bunch of national pride to be tapping into there, right? Oh, absolutely. I mean, you've been in Vietnam, I think, long enough to know that Vietnamese people are some of the most patriotic. We're always seen as the underdog. So anything that we can do while we're competing on the global stage, it's really exciting. And we've been able to have some really crazy upsets.

Probably my favorite is, so during COVID, we weren't able to travel abroad and go to these global tournaments. So we have World, which is like the World Cup for football, but for League of Legends. So in 2022, World was in New York City, in Times Square. Like for me, growing up in America, New York Times Square is such a huge symbolism for me, right? Yeah.

So, you know, I'm going from two to three years where our team couldn't compete or travel abroad because of the pandemic.

to going to New York and seeing the teams being represented in Times Square on all the massive billboards to competing at Madison Square Garden. The last time I was at Madison Square Garden, I was watching Jay-Z and Kanye West perform. Now I'm seeing my little sports team from Vietnam representing on the stage. And the crazy part is we went up against one of the top teams from China.

from the LPL and we were able to knock them out in the best of one the entire audience like just went nuts everyone was chanting G-A-M G-A-M oh my god that moment I actually fainted during that moment so I was backstage because the way that we won was just so crazy where so in League of Legends you're basically trying to destroy the opponent's base it's called the nexus right and

So it's five on five. They're basically on the doorstep of our nexus. They're about to knock it down. They're about to win the match and it's game over for GAM. But we were able to respawn after dying, coming back and then wiping out their entire team

marching back all the way to their base and being able to take it over. So the entire audience is one of the most historic games where, you know, we're a minor region, a small team from Vietnam going up against these big teams from the LPL and being able to knock them out because they were a favorite to actually be one of the finalists at Worlds.

Those are the moments like, you know, my mom was in the stands. She has no idea what's happening, but she just hears everyone chanting. She's crying. And those are the moments where it really like inspires the youth. And you're seeing like the Vietnamese kids here. Those videos were going so viral, millions and millions of views because you're seeing the underdogs representing. So it was awesome.

So it was making news headlines. The whole country was getting behind you. Yes. And especially within the esports and gaming communities, just because it really shows Vietnam. Vietnam has always been known as a very resilient country. We don't go out without a fight. And they brought the fight right to our doorstep, but we didn't back down. We figured out a way. We were resourceful. We were able to capitalize on some mistakes that they made and be able to march back. That was something that people still talk about to this day.

It's been super exciting. We're always looking to create those moments where it really can inspire and unite this young generation.

Why is it so big in Vietnam, gaming and League of Legends? I mean, there's a lot of different ingredients, I think, that are coming together. So when I met with Riot Games and I met with Sean Oh, who is the head of APAC. So he's in charge of esports for all of Asia Pacific. He is like the godfather of the LCK, which is the Korean League, which is, you know, it's the Premier League or whatever. So for him, he was explaining to me, it's like it's a perfect combination of four key things.

So number one, the product. So the product would be League of Legends, the broadcast. For us, having access, this youth here, being able to go to internet cafes, play League of Legends with their friends. And then number two is the infrastructure is starting to be developed here in Vietnam. We're starting to get a lot of support from the government.

and also with access, even with other esports, whether it's through mobile as well, right? So not just PC, but we also have mobile. Number three would be having these legendary heroes, people of the youth admiring that they're seen on the global stage

where they want to become the next Levy, for example. So on our team, we have a captain. His name is Levy. He is like the base of esports here in Vietnam. And he's become a great kind of like ambassador for esports in Vietnam. Not only is he a super handsome dude, well-spoken, he's a great in-game leader, communicates really well. He has really high EQ, right?

So it's something that's been great for us. And then now you're seeing the player welfare developing where players can really support themselves, their families, and there's a real career now. So you're seeing a combination of players

the product being the game, the league, the infrastructure with the government, with different conglomerates coming in and really elevating the league. And then having these legendary heroes with great stories that are inspiring the youth and people are seeing that, hey, this is becoming a career that I can follow and there's a future. So that is like the beautiful blueprint that has been coming together. But

But I think it's just seeing these players on the global stage. It really just inspires the youth. And then for them, they want to be able to be the next Levy.

That wasn't always the case, though, was it, with gaming in Vietnam? I feel like that's a development in the last maybe 10, 15 years. Didn't gaming used to get a pretty bad rep here? Definitely, definitely. You know, I understand anything that's new, I think, especially with like, you know, parents. Parents are always doing what's best for their kids. So sometimes anything that's new that it could also be seen as very negative.

I'm sure if you go back in the day and we're looking at newspapers, for example, it's like, oh, don't read all that. You know, your brain is going to rot. It's the same kind of thing, right? So gaming and esports is something new. And of course, too much of anything maybe is not the best. But how do you find a proper balance?

So I think in the past, gaming had a negative reputation. Now that you're seeing esports being included at SEA Games, seeing it at Asia Games, now even at the Olympics. So it's giving a lot of credibility and people are seeing like, wow, this is another form of sport where you have different people competing. It's just a different way of competing. Instead of competing maybe more on a physical pitch or a playing field, you're now competing in this digital world that's through a PC or computer.

getting the recognition and having that become now a real sport. You know, I have a certificate here from the prime minister to our captain here after his performance at Seagate's.

We won the first gold medal for esports, a league of legends in Hanoi, which was really amazing. In 2022 for Sea Games 31. So because of those type of things, it's also a way that the government sees that, hey, there's a huge industry here. How do we get behind it? Because it can open up a lot of jobs, a lot of opportunities for the youth.

Obviously, like the average income here in Vietnam, I don't know what it is at the moment, but say it's a few hundred US dollars. These guys are making 10, 20, 30x that. So they can really support themselves, but more importantly, also be able to support their families. So it's exciting to see. And now that we're having like really big conglomerates from Vietnam, whether it's like your VinFast or FPT, they're getting involved. And that's really helping to elevate the entire ecosystem in the industry.

I always thought, what is it that's going to put Vietnam on the map globally? Yeah. I know one of your sponsors, Vinfast, is giving it a good crack. Is it electric vehicles? I'm not sure. Is it games? I know Vietnam produces a hell of a lot of games. Yes. Yeah. Or is it

the eSports team. And it sounds to me like certainly with the success that you're bringing, it could be possible. Yeah, no, we're really excited. And that's why we're here. I think Vietnam is such a beautiful country and that for

Like for us, we're super prideful. One of the things that we can do or we can bring the best of Vietnam to the world and bring some of the best of the world to Vietnam. And, you know, just being here over the past 10 years, I've seen Vietnam grow tremendously. But if you're going to talk about what are we exporting besides like coffee and rice and things like that, I would love to be, you know, sharing our love for esports and sharing how our little team from one of the minor regions, but now it's

come up to a tier one major region is giving some of these bigger teams a run for their money. It's a huge opportunity. Riot Games is really paying attention to Southeast Asia because it's one of the biggest growing markets for esports. And for Southeast Asia, there's a billion people. It's a very young population. So esports is just a huge way to connect to the youth here, whether it's Gen Z.

We are alpha and that young generation. So I think in esports, that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to unite and inspire the youth here in Vietnam and hopefully represent the country on the bigger stage. Is it like football in that you have...

academies where you're training youngsters in esports, in League of Legends? And also, is it like football where you like transfer players from team to team and things like that? Yeah. So a great analogy would be football. So for example, it's five on five. We do have substitute players. So currently at GAM, we have five key players that they're the starting five and we have two subs, right? And then we also have a head coach. We have an analyst,

We have a assistant coach, general manager. We have like personal trainers. So it's really a team of people built to help

Our team, our players become like the best version of themselves. And what's happening now is that there's kids that could be in these really rural parts of Vietnam who are playing league, who play really well. And for us, you can actually see the leaderboard when you go into the game client and see in Vietnam who are the top players who are playing solo. Right. So it's really easy for some of these players, if you're doing really well, to be discovered in a sense.

sense, right? And now you're seeing players being exported to different leagues and stuff. And there are opportunities to quote unquote sell players and things like that, right? So we do have academies and that's where the players are being built. We definitely need to build a deeper ecosystem to

But what you're seeing in more developed countries like Korea, for example, they're like the e-sports mecca. You have high school kids. It's like high school players. Then they go to college and then play with the college team. Then they go to the amateur. Then they go to the pro leagues. So there's like an actual ecosystem and infrastructure where you're building up these players organizationally.

over time. With Vietnam right now, it's a little bit tricky because you're going from these internet cafes and straight into the league in a sense, right? There are academy teams, but it's a bigger jump

So, you know, sometimes you don't have the proper kind of training or proper kind of mindset yet. These guys are being thrown right into the mix. But I will say that it's exciting because you're seeing players going to different leagues. So there's a great example of a Vietnamese esports player called Lazy Field. Lazy Field, sorry. He is now the first player to play in the Korean League, the LCK League.

The viewership from Vietnam was peak viewership. So Korea sees Vietnam as such a huge opportunity because Vietnam loves esports, loves League of Legends specifically. And now the Korean teams are starting to say, hey, whoa, there is an entirely massive market in Vietnam and Southeast Asia that's paying attention. So outside of Korea or outside of China, it's like we need to tap into Vietnam.

So that team has seen a lot of love, a ton of eyeballs from Vietnam because they're all cheering for this guy. They want to see him succeed. He won his overview. So it was actually really cool to see and a great story for the Vietnam esports players. And I bet the Korean team's social following skyrocketed overnight. Skyrocketed, skyrocketed. How do we capitalize on this moment? So it's really exciting to see. So we welcome all the Korean companies that want to come out to Vietnam and help us grow this ecosystem together.

What do you think needs to happen for Vietnam to become a global hub or more of a mecca for esports like South Korea or China? What needs to happen for that to become a reality, do you think? There's a ton of things that need to come together. We're starting to see a lot of it now, just like the early stages. So some of the things that I think need to happen also is education.

Right. Education is such a key part. But what's exciting is that we're starting to see some of the universities starting to incorporate e-sports into their education, whether it's an extracurricular activity to get students to come and join, but also have been in talks with different schools.

from FPT Polytechnic to FPT University about esports curriculum that's like management-based. Because there's so many job opportunities there, right? So I think when people think of esports, they think of, oh, I can only be a player. No, there's so many things because that entire ecosystem, if we're talking about football, once again, there's a whole entire business behind the team, right? Whether it's marketing, it's events, you know, everything from,

That side to management, to coaching, to your, your partnership, advertising, so many things that, that is behind the scenes, behind the team to make the business run. So for me, one of the main things with the education, not just helping the players, but also just helping the industry to grow.

I think that's super important. Secondly, it's just the infrastructure and having like these big conglomerates getting behind it to really push it from a public standpoint. So having the FPTs, the VNGs, the VIN groups getting behind esports and creating opportunities and platforms for esports to really have a chance to shine in a positive light.

It's great to see esports in Vietnam being recognized by the prime minister, for example, or at some of these bigger events like WooChoice Rewards.

You know, We Choice the World is a very popular kind of award show that is recognizing beautiful Vietnamese stories that are inspiring this next generation. And we're really fortunate where our team was able to receive some of those awards, actually. But going back to your question, so education, getting support from these big conglomerates to bring esports to the mainstream and to the spotlight.

But if you're talking about the team, I think having exposure for our team. So now we're seeing our team going to Taipei where they're competing in front of a live audience, getting some of that experience, being in a different surrounding, being able to rub shoulders with other elite players from different regions, whether it's from Japan or Korea, Australia, or even in Taipei. I think that helps our team to level up. And I guess a lot of it is about

storytelling as well, right? I see that you guys do that really well. Yeah, we're trying. I mean, there's such a great story behind it. You know, we were talking about a lot of times the players are fans. You guys see all the highlights of like, you know, winning championships or getting awards and things like that. But there's so much going on behind the scenes because these players are sacrificing a lot of

Their time, a lot of their youth in a sense, just focus in on what they're doing. But that's how you create champions. A lot of these guys are, this is their life. This is the path that they chose. And it's a lot of hard work and dedication. So it's really important for us to share that story to hopefully inspire the next Levy, the next Faker, or the next Vietnamese or a global superstar. I like what you said as well about telling this story.

The real story as well. I saw a post that you did where it's like, yeah, we've won these WeChoice awards on one night. The next night we're in bunk beds in this hotel room, you know, getting ready to compete. Yeah. Like I think authenticity is really important. What successes have you seen with your social media channels, your social media storytelling?

Like, how would you say is the best way to connect with esports fans on social? So I think because the esports fans are a lot of Gen Z, a lot of alpha. And I think people don't want to be like marketed to anymore where they're just, hey, this is a story that we came up with. We're just selling you the shiny stuff. It's really about being able to engage with an authentic story like I shared in that post. So there were posts that you were trying to just give some context to.

It would be like last month we were at the WeChoice Awards where our team got recognized for being an influential Gen Z group. So we were like representing for esports. We're very honored to have that recognition. We're there amongst a lot of Vietnam's like A-list celebrities walking the red carpet. Last year, Kiaia, which is like one of our star players, he won the most inspirational Gen Z figure.

So it's because he has an amazing story where he only finished first grade because his family comes from such humble beginnings. He had to like start working and like helping his family and stuff. And, you know, he was playing a League of Legends on the side. He became really good at it.

He ended up being recruited by a team. He started being able to make a little bit of money. He shares a story about making 3 million VND, which is maybe 120 US dollars and being able to provide for his family. You know, oh, learn how to read and write.

League of Legends, you know, communicating with people in the game. And sometimes I think people don't realize that through playing video games, you're learning how to communicate with others. You're learning teamwork. You're learning problem solving. You're learning how to win, how to lose. These are all skill sets that can be applied to work and in life. So we want to share those stories in an authentic way. So going back to what you're saying is one second, we're at

accepting these awards. Then next day I'm flying to Taipei where we have a new gaming house. And now, you know, I'm living in a bunk bed with our general manager, getting our team ready to go compete against, you know, world-class teams. So it's, I think the esports fans, our fans in general, they love to see that authentic story. They love to see what's happening behind the scenes. And that's a great way to connect because it makes it more relatable.

For the listeners that still don't actually know what League of Legends is, you've described it as multi-dimensional chess. It's a multiplayer battle arena. Yes. Could you just explain a little bit more for the uninitiated what exactly League of Legends is? Okay. So League of Legends is a five-on-five PC game. So it's played in the Rift. The Rift would basically be like our pitch. So

So the goal is to destroy the enemy's base, which would be the Nexus. But along the way, when you're going to your enemy base, there's towers. There's different objectives that you're trying to achieve. And when you achieve these objectives, you're rewarded with gold. When you have gold, you can buy different items to really level up. So what makes League of Legends so exciting and different every time is before each match, before each game, there is a draft.

So there's 150 champions, right? Which would be like the...

the avatar that you're picking for that match, right? So each avatar has their own set of skills, their strengths and weaknesses. And then how do you combine different kind of like abilities to help them? So it's really like, you've got to be super smart, really good at math to understand what all the different combinations are. And what you got to do is that when somebody picks this person, you got to be, okay, I got to pick this person to counter.

So before the match even starts, there's already a draft that is already taking up a lot of time with the coaches and stuff with the players. So you're drafting these five different players, champions that they call them.

And then once the match starts, it's okay, do we pick this right team? Are they going to be able to gel together? So every match is very different. And what's great about esports is that the game can be updated and they update it quite regularly through different patches. So it could be somewhere from monthly updates where they're adding different objectives or they're adding new abilities. So you really have to stay on top of the game. That's why it's really important to have great coaching as well.

So that's what makes League of Legends so exciting is that it's a constantly evolving game that you have to evolve with. Was that a good explanation? That's a great explanation. And I was going to say, and it's super high energy as well, isn't it? Like, I'm more like your mom, though. I'm looking at it and just being like, what is going on here? I completely feel you there because I'm a gamer growing up.

But I play like first person shooters, you know, where it's like Call of Duty or Halo. But that's a lot easier to follow because your objective is to kill the person in front of you in a sense, right? But with League of Legends, it's really complex. So it can be really intimidating when you first watch because there's so many things happening.

The amazing part when you're going to an esports match is you're hearing the commentary live. It adds to the fan experience because the players are wearing headsets that are noise cancelling. They can only communicate with each other.

Right. So the audience is hearing the in-game commentary, which a lot of times is a lot more fun and exciting, you know, or another dimension, another element to the esports experience. And the fans from around the world are just crazy. And if they're not in the stadiums for these tournaments, are they watching it live streamed on Twitch or YouTube and things? Yes. The great thing and why esports is such a global sport is because you're able to watch it

like you said, through YouTube, through Twitch. With League of Legends, for example, for Vietnam, we watch predominantly on YouTube and now watching on TikTok. It's easy to watch because everyone has a device in their pocket so people are watching. But the great thing is we've been able to do viewing parties over the past few years and we're running out movie theaters, right? Where you're watching in IMAX on a massive screen as opposed to just watching it here by yourself. You're now watching it with other fans

And we've had doing parties where we've split up the movie theater, Gam on this side, the other team on this side. And it's so much fun. And I think that's what this young generation, they really want that experience. Those are the things that I miss about living in the U.S. And maybe you can relate, you know, since you've lived in the U.K. before. It's like I miss sporting events and concerts.

But Vietnam, now the concerts are starting to really elevate. You have such huge talent. You even have global artists like Imagine Dragons was just here.

ready to see. So that has been elevating now with esports and sports outside of football. As much as everyone loves to watch football, I think esports has been able to really pull in all of mainstream entertainment to create these massive global events. With esports like the World Championships, you had Linkin Park performing at the O2. They did a theme song

four worlds and then they tie it together create a music video for it and with esports what I see happening is that it's becoming a part of pop culture where it's connecting music lifestyle and basically everything coming all into one just being the new form of entertainment. So talk me through that moment that you were in the US and you thought

I'm going to go to Vietnam. I mean, I was born and raised in San Diego, California. When I grew up in the U.S.,

My parents were immigrants. They hustled their way to provide us with a beautiful childhood and everything. And growing up, I wasn't always proud to be Vietnamese because I never saw any Asians or even Vietnamese people in sports or on TV or anything. So when I was in Asia, I was sorry, when I was in the U.S., I had a lot of different opportunities to do some exciting things.

But, you know, my dad came back to Vietnam and there was just so much opportunity that he would be telling us about. He's like, look, you know, we have I'm sure you have a good life here in the US, but Vietnam, it's booming. Come be a part of the growth here and come visit. So we would come and visit Vietnam. And the more and more I came here, the more and more I was like, whoa, I just be able to learn more about our roots, about our heritage and seeing Vietnam grow.

as a white canvas, you know? So the more and more I came back, the more I fell in love with it. And originally, you know, I'd been in hospitality and nightlife entertainment, going from being in Hollywood, where I was the ambassador of Hennessy, having this really glamorous job, and then going to, you know what, I'm going to switch it up, take a leap of faith, go to Vietnam and see what I can do out there.

So give up the good, go chase the great, you know. And when I came to Vietnam, we were really lucky to be in Nha Trang and settle on this amazing rooftop where we were able to build Skylight, which is a rooftop beach club that's become kind of an iconic destination for Nha Trang.

So that opened up a lot of doors for me to meet so many tremendous entrepreneurs and successful people here in Vietnam and some great people that I call close friends, mentors, business partners and stuff. But when the pandemic hit, man, that was tough because Nha Trang is a tourist market.

so miyachang is a beautiful beach town along the coast and when kovid happened we were closed for 11 months and during that 11 months i was like what am i going to do next you know and so my business partner now his name is randy dobson he's our chairman he is a successful entrepreneur who's helped build the fitness lifestyle industry he founded california fitness

And he had invested into NRG, which is an esports organization in North America. They're one of the top 10 biggest esport orgs. And he invested there with the intent to bring it to Vietnam. So during that time, I'm sitting there talking to him and he's like, oh, I've been sitting on this investment in esports. I think it's a great opportunity where Vietnam, there's a lot of potential here. And when we looked into it, there was an amazing team called Gam Esports that plays League of Legends. NRG didn't have a League of Legends team at the moment.

So we're like, hey, this sounds like a great opportunity. Why don't we take a shot at this and see what we can do? But it was really exciting because it's like a rising tide lifts all boats. We're seeing esports really elevating globally from more of an underground thing to more mainstream and being a part of pop culture. So for Vietnam, we saw an industry where we could be a category king and lead the way.

That's what I think is so beautiful about Vietnam is there are such an abundant amount of opportunities. And if you're able to capitalize, you know, you could be, you know, uniting and inspiring a whole generation. It's not always easy, though, is it? Has there been any challenges to what you're doing? So many challenges. I mean, if we're going to speak specifically about esports, definitely a lot of challenges.

Just because, like we said before, the infrastructure for esports and gaming necessarily isn't there yet. We look up to the Koreas and things like that, and we want to model what they've been able to do well, but certain things don't just translate directly. How do we take their blueprint, kind of localize it for Vietnam? But I think some of the biggest challenges for Vietnam, I think, is changing the perception. It's not easy, especially doing something where you're trying to be the innovators and stuff.

You could learn from some of these places and you're taking their blueprint, but it doesn't necessarily translate, right? So we're trying a lot of different things. We've failed at certain things and certain things that we've had to pivot in. But at the end of the day, I think it's all part of the journey, a part of the process and a part of helping us to continue to level up

Being in business in the U.S. and then coming here to do business, what would you say if you were advising someone who's coming here to start something, to grow something? What tips would you give them about doing business in Vietnam? Yeah, you really got to go all in. You can't be like one foot in, one foot out, going back and forth from the U.S. and things like that. I think you really have to come be submerged in the culture here.

understand the people, certain ways of doing business. Vietnam is so relationship based, you know, and it's really about building meaningful relationships with people and aligning and see if you could add value to one another.

I think sometimes I think people come in and it's just, oh, we have money. And, you know, they think that because of that, everything is going to work out. But you'll be surprised. There's a lot of talented people here in Vietnam and Vietnamese people, especially like a lot of VQs like myself who are now educated abroad are coming back and adding to society and things like that. So I think for Vietnam, the next 10 years, the next 20 years,

There's so much buzz around Vietnam being like the next tiger economy and things like that. So it's exciting to hear. So my advice would be come understand, learn the culture, be here on the ground, have trusted advisors that you could work with to navigate the space.

Yeah. Yeah. And I hear what you're saying as well about just having money and showing up isn't going to fly. Yeah. There's actually a joke. And I think it's along the lines of how'd you become a millionaire in Vietnam? Arrive as a multimillionaire. Yeah. Because if you don't, if you don't have trusted people here, it's really easy to get lost in everything and follow wrong paths. Like, yeah, things don't work out. Yeah.

I'd like to end these episodes by asking you, what excites you most about Vietnam going into the future? What excites me most about Vietnam is all the opportunities that are here. For especially esports specifically, there's not many sports that

where you have a Vietnamese team playing on a tier one level representing the region. But we've been able to do that with League of Legends. And I'm excited to see some of the other esports. We know we've seen most recently in December, we had a PUBG team from Vietnam win the World Championship.

So you're seeing that there's the opportunities there where you have these smaller teams from Vietnam going out, you know, representing and being able to unite and inspire. I know that I keep saying that, but our goal here at GAM is to unite, inspire the youth through esports entertainment. And that's what's exciting me about being here in Vietnam because I know that we can do that through esports. And esports is one of the fastest growing industries. So I hope that people come to Vietnam

Come enjoy some of these matches. Come support some of the teams. And just enjoy the beauty of Vietnam and the people. You've been listening to You Don't Know Vietnam. I'm Ian Paynton from We Create Content. I'd like to thank DJ Jace from The Beat Saigon for their epic soundtrack. And a massive thank you to you for making it all the way to the end.