E53: Meet the stand-up comedian who made Durex Vietnam hilariously hyper local
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Am I right in thinking that you also worked on the Durex account? Oh yes, 100%. My favourite work in my entire advertising career, I would say. How so? See, Durex is a very tongue-in-cheek brand. It talks sex, right? But then in English, when you're doing innuendos, it's just so easy, right? So our biggest challenge was to make it work in Vietnamese. The MGM show, yeah, show, show, show.

Welcome to You Don't Know Vietnam, the show that demystifies Vietnam for global audiences by talking to the creatives, trendsetters and business owners who are taking on the market. Forget what you thought you knew about Vietnam. It's no longer that, as you're about to find out. I'm Ian Painter, co-founder of We Create Content, a content marketing agency that helps global brands enter Vietnam and connect with Vietnamese consumers.

We make global brands relevant in Vietnam with always-on, hyper-local content. On this episode of You Don't Know Vietnam, I'm talking to Ankita Ghosh, a creative director and stand-up comedian who is based in Ho Chi Minh City and runs Saigon International Comedy. Today, Ankita tells me about the state of stand-up comedy in Vietnam

what you can joke about and what you can't and how the comedy scene changes from north to south. She tells me what it was like moving from Bangladesh to Vietnam as a creative director in advertising and talks me through her role on the Durex account which became famous in Vietnam for its hilarious always-on social media content that tapped into real-time global trends to generate local conversation.

Ankita Oi. Hey Ian, thank you for having me. Oh, you're very welcome. Thanks for joining You Don't Know Vietnam. I've never really had a stand-up comic on You Don't Know Vietnam, so I'm really happy to have you here. Well, now you do. I do indeed. And you've just got back from Melbourne, right? Tell me about that. Yeah, I just performed 12 shows in the Melbourne International Comedy Festival.

And it was amazing. It was amazing, amazing, amazing. What was so good about it? I have been to Melbourne before. The audiences are very comedy literate. But then during the festival month, a lot of international comics come to perform shows there. So the whole city is kind of ready to receive all of that. So 12 shows plus every day I was gigging. Even after the show, I was doing spots at line-up shows and all that. So I think in that period of time, the amount of stage time I got...

I probably don't get it if I perform all year long in Saigon. It's like crazy. I bet. And I guess as a comic, you have to draw on your experiences, what's going on in your life right now, right? So are you telling jokes about Vietnam in Melbourne? Oh, 100 percent. 100 percent. I start with my expat experience as an Indian expat, my experience in Vietnam. And it just goes down so well every time.

So what sort of things are you joking about maybe that you could get away with in Melbourne that you might not joke about here? Or is it pretty much the same? It is pretty much the same, but I see that I am not a very so-called clean comic. My comedy is quite raunchy. Our show was called Gen XXX because I'm Gen X, but also XXX because it was raunchy. So all the raunchy stuff in Saigon, people get a bit, you know, tight-lipped about.

But in Melbourne, it's just you can do whatever. As long as it's funny, it's landing, you just get a lot of laughs. So it kind of gives you validation because often I get feedback here that yours is a little bit too sexy. And I know that it actually works elsewhere easily. No problem. I mean, I've done it in other places as well. But yeah, in Saigon, I have to be a little careful about the words I use. I still don't change my topics, but at least the words I use, I have to be a little bit

Careful about that. I guess humour can be kind of easy to get wrong. Yeah. Or cross the line with, perhaps. Yeah. I mean, here, to be honest, the only thing that we maintain is that we don't talk bad about the government or the authorities and don't make jokes about that, at least in the English comedy scene, which is not really censored.

not really in the radar of the authorities, but we still maintain that. So that way it's not that bad, to be honest. There are quite a few Southeast Asian countries where you also can't joke about religion and stuff like Malaysia, Indonesia. You have to be really careful of what you're talking about. So here it's just the government and authorities that you should not criticize.

What about like, you know, you talk about being quite raunchy. What sort of jokes are you telling? And do you feel that just bombs with the audience in Saigon or what's the reaction? No, the reaction is always giggles, but they're not laughing out loud. You know, they find it funny, but they're not sure if it's OK to laugh at that. Like when I talk about my dating life or I talk about my private parts and

But it's always innuendo, right? So they get it. There is something funny. And then especially women. I mean, women relate to my comedy a lot more than men. So I can always say giggles, but sometimes they don't laugh out loud because they're not sure. But elsewhere, because the jokes are good when they land. So I get huge laughs. So, yeah. I imagine the scene in Melbourne is super buzzy, high energy, lots going on.

What can you tell me about Vietnam's stand-up scene right now? So when I started stand-up and now when I am like five, six years down the line, I would say the scene has grown in terms of the international comedians visiting Vietnam has really gone up.

So I produce shows under the banner of Saigon International Comedy. There is my fellow comedian JK Hobson who produces shows under the banner of Asia Out Loud. So between us, I think we produce at least three international headliner shows in a month in Ho Chi Minh City, which is quite big, I would say.

And the turnout is quite decent. The hearty thing to note is that I have almost like a 60/40 ratio of expats and Vietnamese people coming up because I believe if I depend only on the expat population, the scene will not survive. We need more and more Vietnamese people to come watch English comedy. That's happening actually. A lot of young Vietnamese people are coming to watch.

In terms of quality of comedy, so there is now a very vibrant Vietnamese stand-up scene as well. There is Saigon Teo, which does Vietnamese comedy. But from what I hear from them is that, so Vietnamese comedy is different. It's very slapstick. You don't do dark jokes. They find you more like Ted Talky if you are, you know, touching dark subjects and stuff. Whereas in English, of course, no holds barred. You can talk about pretty much anything.

There is quite a big bunch of Vietnamese comics who do comedy in English right now, which is great. And most of them are really good. So that is also a big encouragement for the scene. And then because I'm part of a regional bookers group, any comedian who wants to do a Southeast Asia tour, and if we all agree, then we bring them to Singapore, here, Bangkok, Hanoi and all of that.

So I would say that we are kind of firmly in the map of international comedians who want to do Southeast Asia tours. They do consider Vietnam because we have been having them quite a lot.

And some of them keep coming back. Dwayne Perkins comes back and a lot of others. Trevor Locke has come back quite a few times. Iman El-Husseini, the Palestinian comic. I have my next show with her. She's coming back. So I would say that we are kind of getting a recognition in the world map as a comedy destination as well. So good to hear as well that your audience is made up of 40% Vietnamese people. Yeah.

And you're putting on Vietnamese stand-ups in English language as well. Yeah, yeah. Whenever I am doing a lineup for any show, basically, I definitely try to keep one Vietnamese comic at least in the lineup. And they are so good. Like, you really cannot avoid putting them. There are like four or five of them are really good. So...

They deserve that spot, you know. And when you're bringing in an international guest, let's say someone's been touring Singapore, the rest of Southeast Asia, they land in Vietnam. Do you have to kind of get them in the green room and be like, hey, like, this is what we don't talk about here or not?

So in Vietnam, as I was saying earlier, that the censorship is not that crazy bad, to be honest. Like if you're in Malaysia or if you're in Indonesia and even in Singapore, you don't talk bad about the government. So that's kind of an understanding already. So we have not had somebody doing really controversial stuff and we had to stop them. We have not really had any comic like that. We did a podcast recently about patriotism in Vietnam and national pride and patriotism

You know, it's like 50 years of reunification. It's 80 years this year since Vietnam's independence. National pride is kind of an all-time high. And we were talking about how as a brand do you navigate that? Or even as a comic or as anyone, do you navigate that, you know? Because I think there's a line where if you cross it, it can spell danger. Do you remember that YouTuber? Yeah.

there was an English language teacher that became quite big on YouTube. And he went on to make a joke about a late general in Vietnam. And he got like canceled big time. And I even saw someone the other day on social media say, that sort of stuff can get you Daniel Howard.

Which I thought was quite funny. You know, that case was so big. Yeah. And it was such an important lesson in do not F with the authorities, politicians, generals. Yeah, the police system and all that. To be honest, this is a very funny observation that I see in the open mic, especially where we go out and try new jokes and stuff.

I see that it's more the younger Vietnamese comics who tend to be a little controversial. Because we understand that sentiment, right? You are being in a country and you always have things to say about your government that you don't like, right? We all do this. So they tend to do that. And then we as showrunners and we tell them that, hey...

Let's not do that. Let's not go there. We don't encourage them at all. Don't talk anything bad about the authorities or anybody in particular. I have heard a few nice Ho Chi Minh jokes. They are really good jokes. I have one as well, but it's different. But then from Vietnamese also, I've had a few, but they are very tasteful. They're good jokes. So that's quite nice. Right.

The last thing you want, you know, trying to build a sustainable comedy scene in Saigon is to start getting knocks on the doors, right? Yeah, yeah. That's the last thing we want. Yeah, 100%. We don't want that at all. How does the scene change between Ho Chi Minh City and Hanoi, would you say?

So, Hanoi, from what I know, does not really have open mics right now. Ho Chi Minh City has one to three open mics in a week. But whenever Saigon International Comedy produces a show here, that means Standing Bar Hanoi is also, Stand Up Hanoi is also producing a show with the same comic there. There are still good comics in Hanoi as well. I have performed in Hanoi quite a few times.

I have a feeling that they are more tight-lipped than people in Ho Chi Minh. They are a little more conservative and all that. But when I performed in Sanding Bar quite a few times, I think it's way more number of expats in the audience than Vietnamese. If I look at the ratio, I think it's more expat-driven than here. So I'm keen to know,

how you even got here. Like, what brings you as a stand-up comic to Ho Chi Minh City, to Vietnam right now? Tell me a little bit about your journey. I did not come here as a stand-up comic. I started stand-up comedy here. So I work in advertising and I came here with an advertising job. I was in Bangladesh before here for five years. And after five years, I was ready to leave. And I was looking at Southeast Asia. And

And then the same company that I was working with in Bangladesh opened up. There was a job opening here, similar position. So I did the interviews and all. I got the job. So I just came here as a creative director with Geometry Vietnam. I worked with Geometry Vietnam, which is a sister concern of Ogilvy and then with Dentsu. And then 2021, I quit Geometry.

To give more time to comedy and I'm still working in advertising. I freelance with agencies, sometimes with direct clients and stuff. So yeah, it was a job in advertising that brought me here. I see. And like, how did you find it when you came from Bangladesh to Ho Chi Minh City as a creative director?

So, you know, Bangladesh speaks my mother tongue. So it was an international experience. But at the same time, I was in a super comfortable zone being surrounded by my mother tongue. And then when I came here, language barrier hit me like right in my face. Right. So that was something today a lot more people are suffering.

speaking English and advertising wise like creative team wise also I was quite shocked because in Bangladesh the whole thing was they looked up to India and India was winning cans and all that so there was a lot of passion those the people who are working in the creative like there's no day and night like

really want to do award-winning, meaningful work, like really passionate people. They even challenge you as a leader, which I really loved that kind of atmosphere. But here, I remember in my first job itself, a designer in my team, I just told him that there is at 4 p.m., I think I just told him that we have to stay a little bit longer than 6.30 because there is an urgent request for

from the client and he looked at me and said that you may not have work-life balance, but I do. So I'm not going to stay for longer. And I was shell-shocked because that's not what you hear in advertising. It's like advertising is somewhere, there's no time limit. And we, I'm not saying that's a good practice, but what I'm saying is that it's just, it

We do that job because we love doing that. We don't think about, oh, am I getting out of the office at 6.30 or not? And so that was a rude shock for me. But then I realized also that I've seen people leaving advertising jobs, joining bank jobs. Like that's also so surprising.

because I have seen exactly the other way around back home or in Bangladesh. Like people leave their other engineering jobs and being doctors and they join advertising because they love the creativity and all that. Yeah. And I remember like, you know, even I was speaking to someone recently who had left a pretty cool tech startup to go and work in a bank. And I was like,

So what drove that decision? And she was like, my parents, you know, my parents are kind of having a go. They keep on at me about getting a proper job in a proper company. I think there's still an element of that here. I feel like young people are kind of pressured by the views of their parents about what a good career looks like. Yeah, I think what I faced like 25 years ago from my parents were heartbroken that I joined advertising and they were like,

What is going on? Like after so much studying all of this and you probably would have gone on to teach in a college or become a bureaucrat. Like what is even advertising? I think that probably is still prevalent here now that media and advertising are not really looked upon as really good career options and stuff. So bank is more secure and all of that. Did you know much about Vietnam before arriving? And what was it about Ho Chi Minh City that...

took you by surprise, if anything? Not really. I did not know a lot about. I was looking at Southeast Asia in general. So of course, my first priorities were Singapore, Malaysia and all that. But then I was talking to recruiters and all of them were saying that Vietnam and Cambodia are upcoming growing economies, so more jobs and all that. And I was really fortunate that I got the job in the same company. And what

What surprised me pleasantly after I moved here is the safety as a woman. You can feel it in your bone, you know, and I came from Bangladesh and I am an Indian and it's just walking on the street. It's just never going to be the same. You know, you have to be constantly aware and, you know, also holding on to your belongings and all that. It became a habit, like just being cautious.

it makes your body a little bit tense, right? And this is not even just true for India and Bangladesh. I mean, I've been to London and where people have told me, hey, it's 7 p.m. already, just be a little bit careful about your surroundings and all that. But here, it's just crazy, the feeling of safety, the relief. And, you know, whatever you wear, no one looks at you. No one cares. I think as a South Asian woman, I felt such relief.

And I think Vietnam spoiled me. And now I go back home or go to other countries, I forget that, hey, I'm a woman. On the street, I have to be a bit careful, you know. So, yeah, that was a very pleasant surprise. I think that's one of the reasons why I've stayed on for so long. This July will be nine years for me. So it's a long time. I was speaking to someone in Singapore, you know, which is famously safe. Yeah, yeah, that's true.

And she had just come to Vietnam for a holiday. She goes, oh, I was surprised at how safe it felt. And I was kind of like, yeah, like, you know, I mean, nowhere is quite as safe as Singapore. But I mean, Vietnam, like you say, there's a sense of security.

security and there's a sense that like people kind of have your back here as well you know people look out for you in Vietnam. They do actually people really help each other out I remember once I was at the back of a grab driver bike and another girl just came straight onto our bike it was her fault but anyway so her bike toppled and she got a big cut in her leg and my grab driver just asked me that can you please cancel this ride so that I can help this lady and I'm like

Yeah, 100%. That's just so nice to see on the street, right? Beautiful. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There are really moments of beauty out on the street. I just don't think you'd get anywhere else. I remember once I was driving from Hoi An to Da Nang late at night and I was parked under a tree because it started raining. Okay. It's quite a long drive. Yeah, yeah. It's quite late at night.

And a couple of bikes had gone by and I noticed one bike was looking at me and it drove by. And then about seven or eight minutes later, it came back with a raincoat for me. Can you believe it? Oh, my God. It's so nice. I was just like, that's so nice of you. Thank you. Beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. So many moments. Yeah. Very human moments like that. It just keeps happening. That's true. Yeah.

But as a creative director, though, like talking about creativity in Vietnam. Okay. How did you find that? Here we go. Yeah, yeah, here we go. Because, you know, like, in some ways, I feel like Vietnam is one of the most creative places on the planet. You just look out on the street and it's like so creative. The way things are done, the way problems are solved, the way things are fixed. But in other ways, perhaps, and you'll know better than me in advertising, maybe there's still some

work to do with regards to creative thinking? Yeah, I was a little bit disappointed when I came here because as I was saying that in Bangladesh, I saw a drive, a hunger, right? So, you know, they had India to emulate and they were inspired by India. They want to be better than India. And so I expected that here in this region, Thailand is really strong when it comes to advertising creatives. And it has a really big spectrum of like really emotional content

really funny content, really like technologically, you know, nuanced filmmaking and all of that. So Thailand is a big advertising inspiration to look up to. But here people, when I started working with the teams, they were like, really had

zero clues about the Thailand advertising and they were not looking at it and all of that. And so where do you draw your inspiration from? I had to really introduce a lot of websites which have, you know, globally really good advertisements. I introduced them to my team and inspired them. Down the line, what I understood is that I feel I'm talking about a general majority. Of course, there are loads of exceptions.

what I see is that if you tell them what to do, they do it amazingly. But if you tell them to think of something like an original idea, that's where they struggle a little bit. So that is something that I noticed and man music videos, it's like everything is a music video. Oh my God, how many music videos can you have? It's just

I remember one of my ex-colleagues, he said that we don't work in an agency. It feels like we work in MTV. Constantly churning out music videos and song and dance. And I'm like, yeah, I see where you're coming from.

I'm not sure if that's been like a relatively new thing or in the last decade. Yeah, it would be in the last decade, I would say that. I mean, I'm to blame as well. I've done one as well. Really? Which one did you do? Yeah, it was for a Coca-Cola brand called Fuse Tea. You know, it's an iced tea. You should drink three different ingredients. They had hired Miss Universe and they had really, all their money was spent there. And they did a TVC and it just did not work out.

And there was no conscious awareness about that product, what it is and all that. So actually this campaign won quite a few awards. So we brought three different genres of musicians representing three different ingredients in the tea. And then we took up their existing popular songs, which

We changed the lyrics to fit with the product and then we made a mashup song and a music video, which was basically taking them to the world of ingredients and all of that. And then we actually locked that song up for seven days in the bottle. So only if you could scan the logo of the bottle, then you could go to a microsite and watch the song. And it was not downloadable for seven days. Literally, you had to buy the bottle and scan.

So, yeah, that won quite a few awards. But yeah, it was still a music video. So what I don't understand then is most people would use a music video to drive awareness of a product.

But you're almost using it as a reward for buying the product. So how did you make audiences and consumers aware? There was a lot of media intervention. There was a lot of innovation around that campaign. So let's say if you are around the five kilometer range of Circle K, you will be delivered a video call from one of the artists. And they will tell you that, hey, there is a new song hiding in the bottle of Houston. If you go inside and buy it, you got to get it.

Yeah, that's pretty cool. Am I right in thinking that you also worked on the Durex account? Oh, yes, 100%. My favorite work in my entire advertising career, I would say. How so? See, Durex is a very tongue-in-cheek brand. It talks sex, right? But then in English, when you're doing innuendos, it's just so easy, right? So our biggest challenge was to make it work in Vietnamese because we were talking about a taboo subject.

So we have to be really, really careful. And it has to work in like whatever great copy I write in English, it has to work in Vietnamese. So I would always tell my copywriter that this is just your guide. Don't translate it. Just think of how you will make it work in Vietnamese. And I think...

We won like even global awards for that one years of Always On that we did on social media. Our whole campaign was very topical. So there was a Fast and Furious movie getting released. We have a content. There's a football match being played. We have a content. So after a while, people would keep asking that. So what is Durek saying about this particular event that just happened? So that's, I think, the biggest success. The brand just became so, you know, a household success.

Social. Yeah, exactly. I remember it being one of the first brands that kind of used social to spark conversation, join conversations, you know, with always on. Yeah. I think if you can do that really well, like Durex did, I remember during, I think it was the World Cup, Messi had a really bad game. So they've got this kind of Argentinian kit, but with like no one in it. And it says invisible, just like Messi in that game, you know, it's so real time. Yeah, yeah.

I think that's really important in Vietnam. We would watch matches. The client and the agency team, we would watch matches and we would be ready to post the content right after the match results are out. And have you got like different pieces of creative for different scenarios or...

pre-approved or do you have rights to publish from the client because they just trust you? No, so all of that will be really quick real-time approval also. So we can, you know, when a football match is going on, of course you can do one win, one loss. But there are all, sometimes there are like really special occasions, things that are happening in the match real-time, right? That's what I'm saying that we were both like watching matches together and

And then, hey, this is something great. Somebody made a hat trick. Let's just make a post about that. And then to think of a creative, which is also sexy, and then get it approved by the client was also kind of always available, always on with us. We worked with a very good team. Like we became a really tight team between the client and the agency. You know, we started with the Trump and Kim Jong-un summit, which happened in Singapore.

And we went there to present another campaign. And at the end of the meeting, there was the general manager and the chief marketing officer there. And I just presented that creative that we wanted to say about that meeting. And they laughed their asses off. They were like, so good, but oh, we can't do that. And we're like, just come on. And we released that content. And then it became so viral that they also came up with a limited time discount during the meeting period because it was crazy. Just people loved that content. So amazing.

That's where the trust, I think, began, basically. I think it's really important, isn't it? Yeah. That agency, I don't even want to say client, you know, I want to say partner. Partner, yeah. Is that the stray bullets one that you were talking about?

Yeah, yeah, yes. Because it was something along the lines of like pray for peace. Yes, yes, yes, yes, correct. And limit stray bullets or something like that. Yes, yes, yes, yes. But there was a play on Vietnamese language where stray bullets also meant spur. Yes, yes, correct.

I guess also there's an element of trust that you have to have with your copywriters as well, right? Oh, 100%. Was there ever any trepidation around releasing an idea in a language that you didn't understand as a creative director? It's always hard, isn't it? But I think our partnership with the client side was also so strong. So we kind of did this whole work together. And I think my copywriters also, they...

We're having so much fun doing this kind of, not every day you get to work like this, right? With a brand like this, which is actually being so bold and brave and allowing it to play with your language. So I think everybody kind of grew with that brand. So much fun. So much fun. Oh my God. I think that's welcomed in Vietnam because I've been here on and off for 15 years now.

And I remember there was a time where everything was really like lovey-dovey, love stories, very sentimental. Over time, I think things became much more fun and a bit more witty. And I think brands that can really position themselves to have a strong voice on social in Vietnam can be positioned to really get some traction online. Yeah, you can say that. Yeah. I'm just trying to think of any other brand than Durex who has done this, basically.

Does anything come to your mind? Well, I mean, I'm a little bit biased and I always talk about this on this podcast. So sorry to my audiences who have heard this all before, but we were the agency for Netflix for three years, two and a half years. Oh, okay.

And they really just gave us free reign. That's amazing. To say what's going on in Vietnam. You know the Vietnamese consumer way better than we do. You know what the trends are. Tap into them. Be as creative as you can. And at the end of the month, we'll review what worked, what didn't. Oh, that's amazing. It was the perfect agency partnership. And the team was just pumping out. I mean, they were doing like two...

100 250 bits of content a month you know just always on eight bits a day 10 bits a day and we weren't ever like oh you've reached your limit right it's an always on team you know unlimited outputs using Netflix's assets and this is what we call being like hyper local yeah yeah keeping your finger on the nerve of this pop culture all the time yeah it just makes so much sense

Yeah, like, why would you want to only beam in a regional or global message once a month, you know, or during campaign periods? I feel like there has to be this always on wave of content that's just connecting again and again. And not all of it connects. Yeah, of course. Yeah. There's that room to experiment and figure out what works and what doesn't. Yeah, 100%. Yeah.

It does have to be within some guardrails, though, I think, you know, like set up previously by the agency and the brand. Here's the ballparks that we're going to play in for this experiment. I don't think we just randomly do anything. Do you think there are any other secrets to translating a global brand's DNA to become something that's authentically Vietnamese? I think you have to be, as a global brand, also a bit authentic.

playful, have a little bit of scope to play because we get all these briefs from even bigger brands. This is what our main campaign is and we're going to localize it and

What does this really mean, localize it? Like how deep will you go localizing it? So I have had the fortune of working with certain brands who for them localizing doesn't just mean adapting and changing the voiceover and all of that. So you can be really safe and then keep your thing and just slap it on with a local voiceover and you're done.

Or you can be a little more playful, a little more bold and see what are the things that you can really change or maybe do a fresh new thing for the local market. In India, we have seen that, you know, something that works in East India or North India, it's completely alien to South India. So they do produce different contents for regions. So you can do that here as well.

And I think you probably should, to be honest. You know, I think people think the Vietnamese as one, as 100 million people. I know it's obviously not as big as India geographically or population wise, but even in southern Vietnam, you've got Ho Chi Minh City and the Mekong Delta. Yeah, they are quite different. Yeah.

I remember we were doing a milk formula research among moms and the mom's behavior up north and down south are so strikingly different. Like it was quite eye opening for us as well. Yeah. And then in the north, you've got Hanoi and the Red River Delta, but you've also got the mountains. Yeah, exactly. So I think like local insight is really important and you can go as deep as you want with the local insight and the localization. 100%. Yeah, yeah.

So, what's next for you then? Oh, that's an interesting question. Comedy-wise, I think I would like to perform in Europe, especially in Berlin, in Czech Republic, that belt. Because Berlin is like

very vibrant English comedy scene. I have performed in the UK already. But yeah, so Europe is on the cards. I've not performed in New York yet. That's one of the comedy makers that's yet to be touched. So that'll happen sometime, maybe next year. And I want to write my debut hour. And then I want to tour that hour across Europe.

festivals and countries and then maybe record, like tape it and then release it somewhere. So that's one goal. And advertising work-wise, I just want to keep working with really

passion projects now. Now it gives me the freedom because I'm working as a freelancer so I get to pick and choose the projects that I want to work on. So anything that really piques my interest. Yeah and I'll have to see eventually if comedy pays me enough then I can really cut down on my advertising work. It's not happening yet so that's another long-term goal eventually. Is there anything that you're quite excited about for Vietnam going forward or Vietnam's future?

I think Vietnam holds a very key position right now, especially in the global politics. I just read an article on Bloomberg and they call this the bamboo diplomacy, which I find really interesting because it's strong roots but swaying as further wind blows. Even if it's a small country, it's a pretty key country.

It is a unique story of growth, I think. So I'm very curiously observing. I also want to see how Vietnam does things to make the expats or the investors stay here for longer without going through the hassles of these two-year-long TRCs and all of that. So, yeah.

Comedically, I would say that I really want to see Vietnam strongly establish itself in the map of comedy in Southeast Asia at least. Singapore is immediately known. So for that, we need to be having way bigger names than what we are getting right now, right?

But that is a lot of work. So we have to figure that out somehow. But we have to make it. Russell Peters, if he's coming to Singapore and if he's coming to Malaysia, he should be coming to Vietnam as well. I'm not going anywhere anytime soon. So I definitely want to work towards that to bring in really big names and make it count.

You've been listening to You Don't Know Vietnam. I'm Ian Paynton from We Create Content. I'd like to thank DJ Jace from The Beat Saigon for their epic soundtrack and a massive thank you to you for making it all the way to the end.