E54: Why slow is better in fast-moving Vietnam – with kombucha entrepreneur Faya Nguyen
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Vietnam moves fast, but not everything has to. I actually chose to go slow because I wanted to build something that lasts. I've seen brands come and go quickly because they chase trends.

Welcome to You Don't Know Vietnam, the show that demystifies Vietnam for global audiences by talking to the creatives, trendsetters and business owners who are taking on the market. Forget what you thought you knew about Vietnam. You know the score by now. It's no longer that, as you're about to find out. I'm Ian Paynton, co-founder of We Create Content, a content agency that helps global brands enter Vietnam and connect with Vietnamese consumers.

We make global brands relevant in Vietnam with always-on, hyper-local content. On this episode of You Don't Know Vietnam, I'm talking to Phayant Nguyen, the founder of Cultura Brewery, a leading Vietnamese kombucha brand that's distributed online in Vietnam's finest hotels and restaurants and at the Cultura Taproom in Hanoi's Old Quarter. Hello!

Today, Phaya tells me about Kulture's B2B white label brewing model, the importance of quality partnerships, attention to detail with customer care, and how word of mouth can make or break your brand in Vietnam. She also tells me how slowing down in a country so rapidly on the go is what helps Kulture focus on organic and sustainable growth rather than falling into the trap of constantly chasing trends.

Hello, thanks for joining me on You Don't Know Vietnam. Thank you so much for having me. I admire what you've done with kombucha in Vietnam. It seemed to be trending really hard about five years ago during COVID and you're still here as a category leader. How have you done that? I think I'm going to start by saying how I first came upon to kombucha.

I first tried kombucha in the U.S. while I was finishing my undergraduate studies. It was everywhere in the United States, on supermarket shelves, in health stores.

all over Instagram, YouTube, lifestyle blogs. It felt like everyone was drinking it. So I got curious then, I actually picked up a bottle as well. I took one sip and actually I spit it out. My first reaction was like, what the hell is this? With kombucha trending so hard back then and even now, I thought maybe I'm the odd one out here. So I kept buying, trying different flavors. I picked up things for more for packaging really and for their brand. And slowly I started noticing actual benefits.

I had better digestion, more energy, less sugar cravings. Since in the US, all the fast food and all the foods were like getting caught up to me. And I got hooked. And fast forward five years ago to COVID, everyone was stuck at home. Everyone was either cooking or baking. So I decided to make kombucha. And the feedback was amazing.

Everyone kept saying, you should do something with this. And so we started brainstorming names. We designed the logo and label on Canva. And I started brewing and bottling in my parents' garage, actually. From there, it took life on its own. Started as a personal habit, become something bigger, passion, a brand, and a way to bring wellness and good energy into more home across Vietnam. Back then, I would say there were still probably quite a lot of kombucha brands.

because it was really having a moment. Did you intentionally position it in a certain way in order to stand out or be different? When starting, we didn't really put much thought into it. It was just literally, oh, let's try doing it. Back then, I think there were not many brands. We were one of the first ones. A lot of products were either imported or had a really funky taste. If you tried an actual kombucha, sometimes you'd get

very sour like vinegar or the smell would throw people off. But we came up with a way to use Vietnamese ingredients and actually make it drinkable and taste good and as well as had all the benefits of kombucha. Even five years ago when we started there were a lot of competitors but

The kombucha itself was either inconsistent or like if you see a kombucha in a plastic or a can, that's one thing to consider that it's probably not kombucha. So there was lots of kombucha labeled products, but I think you were potentially among the first kind of craft brewed locally, brewed locally.

brewed kombucha brands in Vietnam. Yes, I believe so. I joke around that I have so many other businesses, but this is one of the business models that I didn't put too much time investing, nor my money, nor my time. But it's one of the ones that I'm very proud of because of its sustainability and what it's

what it has came to. How do you think that happened then? Given that you've got so much going on, what do you think are the factors involved who have meant that culture has grown to what it has and has been sustainable and is still around, even though the kombucha hype has died down slightly? So,

Apart from just starting with one single flavor, which is mango passion fruit, we actually had the opportunity came knocking on the door. One of the upcoming food and beverage outlet came to us and asked us to make custom kombucha for them. So we were making kombucha for this specific restaurant. We developed two flavors, which is already more than what we were selling. And the restaurant only...

sold kombucha to their customers. So the word traveled around and people started noticing kombucha and

On the bottle, we only had that it was made by Culture Brewery, but that was helping us a lot as well. It was that Muam restaurant to start with. Yes. The burger restaurant. They were online in the beginning and they were gaining a lot of attention already. So when they came to us, it was quite surprising. Yeah. So was the main revenue stream in the beginning pretty much B2B, like white labeling kombucha for other brands? I would say so. So we still had some online sales online.

We're on Shopee and we were selling on Instagram. But mainly it was B2B from WAMP and then came other cafes, even five-star hotels. We have Capella, we have Novotel, Pullman. And everyone just kept noticing. So it really took a turn on its own. Something to be said about word of mouth, isn't there, in Vietnam? Yes, definitely. That's how everything is built here. You may spend thousands of dollars on any campaign, but it's...

Nothing. If one influential person says something about your business, then it all goes south. Yeah, it can turn around really quick. You're working with some pretty big brands, pretty prestigious brands in Vietnam. Word of mouth is really important. How do you make sure that nothing is going wrong and you're delivering consistency to these partners? Like you said, they're all very big names and people.

So we were very cautious. We did everything with care, really. We cared a lot. If you asked any of our customers, they would probably say we are very not sure how to say it in English, but in Vietnamese would be Chieu Khai. So we would literally do anything they would ask of us from designing the label on its own for them or any flavors they asked for a

Apart from the 10 flavors we're actually selling now, we are indeed over 60 different flavors, including using wasabi, using lakshan, anything really to fit the

food and beverage journey that they're trying to have in their restaurants or their brand. And that was actually helping us a lot because we were building relationships and testing and getting feedbacks from the people in the industry. I guess what I don't understand is why they trusted you so much. Did you know them already or they just stumbled across your brand and trusted you with it? Well, I think so how people got to know us was definitely probably through mom or just ordering a bottle.

from online, but I think the taste is what got them hooked.

And we cared about making everything transparent. So they could tour our facility. They could ask us any questions about how we make it. We show them everything. So for each of the brand names that have their own label, their own flavor, we would have to have it tested. We would have to have the paperwork for them. So essentially, they were having their own product without doing any work. And that's one of the ways we found that

was very economical to educate people about kombucha is by actually selling it that way instead of pushing kombucha as a culture brand into the market and spending so much money

money and effort on educating people about what kombucha is. So we actually had people doing that for us and we were still making money. So essentially rather than going B2C and having to educate a consumer market, you would go through partnerships and they would sell kombucha to their guests and almost do the education for you. That's not to say there's not hard work involved because you're doing all the R&D, all the production, all the design work.

It's interesting what you say as well about, you know, needing transparency, trust. I think Vietnam, in my experience up to date, has been quite an opaque market. Not very transparent. Yeah.

And I think foreigners often struggle with that. And it feels like things are changing slightly. I think new generations of businesses really value transparency. I think that's how really good partnerships are made. Yes. I actually really like the current government of Vietnam right now, how they've been punishing all the wrongdoings and making everything more transparent. There's still definitely some politics into it, but

From the side where, as a foreigner looking into Vietnam, they can see that Vietnam is actually taking necessary changes for it to be a more favorable country for people to invest in. And that definitely has to have the trust and transparency in the way we do things around here.

So did the fact that you started off partnering with some pretty big name restaurants, did that also guide your positioning as Kultra as quite a premium kombucha brand rather than going from mass market, relatively mid-level kombucha? Is that what dictated that, would you say? Definitely. I think also already from the start when we priced our first kombucha,

Kombucha that we were just selling online, it was already priced quite premium. Even to this day, after five years, we haven't raised our prices, but it's still one of the most expensive kombucha on the market. People are paying it though, right? Yes, definitely. And we've built a very loyal community. We have guests who drink kombucha regularly.

Like it's routine daily and they don't really need to tell us anything. We just ship it every week or so for them. I think we were lucky enough to have the B2B customers funding our cash flow and helping us grow. So we were quite slacking on the B2C side. Seems to be a strategy that's paid off though, even if it wasn't necessarily an intentional one. Yes, definitely. You aligned yourself with really strong brands by...

doing something that's genuinely good in quality.

is transparent, is based on trust and just quietly chipping away at delivering something good. Vietnam's quite a momentum market, right? Like everything in my experience needs to be now. It needs to be viral. It needs to be quick out the blocks, make some money. Otherwise we quit and we're onto the next thing. It's almost like you've taken a slow approach, but actually it served you quite well. Is that fair to say? Yes, I think so. Well,

While Vietnam moves fast, but not everything has to, I actually chose to go slow because I wanted to build something that lasts. I've seen brands come and go quickly because they chase trends. You would see one of the trends that was there was bubble tea, which is still right now, but people are revamping it, making it.

more sophisticated. People are paying attention to the branding, to the quality more now. And that's what we've been doing for Culture Kombucha already five years ago. Flow gave us time to build loyalty and stay grounded in our values. I think it's so important. And I think these are the experiences that

Certainly the younger generation are looking to spend money on now. So our main clients would be definitely the younger generation, the people with disabilities.

some income or there's a group of people who are similar like me that had a chance to do studies abroad. They value and they're very brand aware so they can see definitely see what are you doing. I think brand is increasingly important and I think brands are becoming much more intentional and you can see it right.

I think a lot more places have really nice looking brand design right now. They might not necessarily follow up on the whole brand experience, but certainly they look a bit nicer than they did, say, 10 or 15 years ago. They definitely put more attention into, first thing is probably the design itself.

Because in Vietnam, everything has to be good on pictures. So they probably just focus on that bit first and everything else falls back a little behind. So true. But you really feel it when it doesn't fall back and someone is overseeing all of the brand touch points from start to finish. That really makes a difference, I think. Makes me want to go back. Talking about trends, right? I remember one of the first times I realized that trends were really important here. Yeah.

was frozen yogurt. It was about 2011 and 2012. It went from zero to 100 so quickly. There was a frozen yogurt or a fro-yo shop on every corner in the old quarter.

And then all of a sudden, the year later, it had gone. And that's what made me realize that Vietnam was so focused on catching the trend. Is it tempting for you to want to jump onto trends or are you just happy staying in your lane doing what you're doing? Definitely, probably want to jump on the trains when possible.

In business, there are going to be times when you're not doing so well. So seeing a shop having so much awareness just because they're doing something trendy definitely catches thinking a little. But at the same time, I tend to stick with everything that's more on a constant base. So for kombucha, it's a healthy drink as well as a better alternative to Cokes, to sodas on the market.

And that's something that has to take time. It's how you brew kombucha as well. We have a lot of customers asking us, oh, why can't you make more of this to this date? But we actually have only three brewing dates in a month. And that's not something we change or we speed up just to please someone. Got it. So you stick to your principles. You stick to the foundations for sustainable growth more than anything. Mm-hmm.

Because jumping on a trend, it's definitely you have to spend a lot of resources to catch up with it. And there's going to be a trend today and there's going to be another trend tomorrow. Are you going to be able to catch up to all of them? Yeah. I liken it to some of the work that we do. And often when we've worked with local brands, they've always wanted big numbers on Facebook, big audiences. Yeah.

And I guess we're like, yeah, you can buy an audience. You can buy followers. But we're really dead against it. We're really about growing audiences organically. But it takes time. It takes a lot of time. It takes vision. It takes patience. And not everyone has that. I think I've had a really great experience. But before doing kombucha, I was actually helping my family managing a resort in Fukuoka. In one of the years, we got

Up to this date, after 12 years already of running the business, the revenue was the highest when I just told everyone just to really care about the customers. We didn't follow any numbers. We didn't have KPIs. I just told everyone to really care about how the customer is treated.

And so instead of focusing on the numbers, we were focusing on the reviews and the kind words that the customers were leaving us. And that turned into the greater revenue that everyone was so surprised up until this date is definitely because

We were taking a different approach rather than making sure that we hit our quota, hit our KPI. We just slowed down and we're taking care of the customers coming to the resort. You're coming here to relax. You're coming here to enjoy your holiday. And if someone is tense and just thinking about the numbers, if someone's serving you just want to get your money, then they can feel that. For me, it's the most important part is the people I work with, definitely.

I still have a lot of guests messaging me directly ordering kombucha or messaging me directly booking a table. I'm always on the phone and on all the businesses that I've invested, you can see my phone number as the hotline in the beginning. So what lessons then do you think you could take away for a foreign member of my audience that's coming to Vietnam to do business? What advice would

would you give them? So for anyone entering Vietnam, I would say don't rush it, but don't freeze either. Listen and build real relationships. For me, anyone would know me, I'm the biggest introvert ever, but even within the years that I've been working here, I had to build relationships, I had to put myself out there. And so listen, build real relationships, and when the moment feels right, move with care and courage.

Don't rush it. Listen and build real relationships. And I think they're kind of interconnected in a way because building real relationships in Vietnam does take time. I don't think it's something you can do overnight. I don't think you can come into Vietnam as a foreigner. Just expect it all to happen overnight. I think you're going to need to slow down. For me, I think when a brand comes into Vietnam, there's so many struggles they face because they don't really...

listen or adapt to the culture here. When you just have a set playbook where you meant to expand, oh, Vietnam is our next target, and you just bring in the full package that you've done somewhere else, I don't think that would work here. In Vietnam, you definitely have to consider a lot of factors, including the culture, the people, the experience you bring to them.

Yeah, I think that's really important advice. It's not like you can just cookie cutter whatever you did in other countries and bring it to Vietnam and go, yeah, that's it. Buy it. That works everywhere else, but probably not Vietnam. What is it that makes Vietnam so different in that sense, do you think? I think it's where we were saying how Vietnam is changing so much. Everything is evolving because if you don't live here, if you don't spend time here, you miss on a lot of things. What would you say is the...

hardest thing about doing business in Vietnam? I mean, and this is for a local as well, right? Let alone a foreigner coming here. I think it would be not catching up to trends or feeling that you are left out just because something is not working the way it's supposed to. I think you definitely have to stay grounded and believe in

your value and what you've set to do. In Vietnam, people often rush into something new or they would jump on a trend, like we said already, too fast. Yeah, I had someone on here say that the Vietnamese quite like to cease an opportunity, cease a moment, even if perhaps the strategy is not in place or the plan isn't fixed, still say yes and work it out later. I think that's one of the problems I face as well. I say yes to everything.

Anyone who has any proposal, I would definitely be interested. And that's what I've learned this year as well, is that sometimes it doesn't have to be that way, that you can say no and things will still be fine and you're not going to ruin any relationship with anyone. You'll have another opportunity.

Nothing on your door. So no later. Yeah, when I first got to Vietnam, I found that there were so many opportunities and everyone's so open to doing business and collaborating that I was saying yes to everything. And I was going down roads that perhaps were either dead ends or just going around in circles. Wow.

I feel like I wasted a lot of energy at the start. In Vietnam, everything is quite easy. Like you can see a lot of businesses opening each day. Where in, say, in any other developed countries, it will take so much longer. You would have to have all the licenses, all the paperwork that take quite a lot of time. But in Vietnam, you can have a shop ready to go in like a week or so. And I think one of the problems that we face as well, they don't put much into the research process.

of the product that they're putting out there. So they're too quick to go to market. Everyone's in a rush, aren't they? It's not necessarily a bad thing, but most of the outcomes are not very great out of that. It is interesting what you said about learning to say no a little bit and maybe spotting

what is a good fit relationship and what's not a good fit relationship. Before we repositioned to service global brands coming into Vietnam, local businesses and brands would call me and say, hey, Ian, we've got a project. Can we meet now? Yeah. And that for me was a red flag because I'm like, if you're in so much of a rush to me and get this done now today, then our solution would be

editorial, organic audience building through publishing isn't going to work for you. It's not going to get you your results immediately.

So I was able to learn like what was a good fit and what wasn't a good fit and therefore say no, I think a bit more and feel more confident in saying no. And it's not about, like you say, burning bridges or relationships. It's just about, I think, protecting your energy. Because often like bad fit relationships were ending in friction as well and bad outcomes. I think that's something that I definitely had to work on a lot and learn.

to do. Anywhere outside of Vietnam, you probably have to schedule your doctor's appointment weeks in advance, but here you can just show up and they will see you right away. Everything in Vietnam is like that. Everything has to go so fast. In the beginning, it was very unfamiliar for me, but eventually I got caught in that moment when I had to do everything so fast and everything had to be done right away. And I think this year I've actually

seen myself slowing down, filtering things that actually matter and things that I don't really have to do on my own, that I have the great support group and a great team that can do it for me. So I'm not as burned out this year. Yeah, and can do things with more intention, with more quality. Do you think the premium well-being category is a relatively new category in Vietnam? I definitely think so. Vietnamese people care more about their health

what they put into their body and their quality of life in general. The proof being is that so many big international brands are making their presence in Vietnam. And they're doing that after years of research and seeing Vietnam

actually very potential. What do you think premiumness means to the Vietnamese? Because it's not just high price, is it? I don't think. It's definitely more than just the price. In Vietnam, I think premium means...

That one thing feels right, that they fit in, that they feel that it's a part of them. Like we said, it's the experience, it's the story, the full package that they get. Yeah, and something they identify with. Yes. As part of their lifestyle. For us, for kombucha, it has to feel thoughtful, crafted and meaningful.

has to align with what the customer values. I like to end these episodes by asking you, what are you most excited about for Vietnam's F&B sector? I think there's definitely so much room. Vietnamese food and beverage market already getting so much attention from the world. All the proof is the Michelin stars we get each year and a lot of

young people that actually spend money and time to get educated in the field and coming back with very interesting and innovative concepts. I think Vietnam is just getting started and I'm really grateful that I'm a part of that journey.

You've been listening to You Don't Know Vietnam. I'm Ian Paynton from We Create Content. I'd like to thank DJ Jace from The Beat Saigon for their epic soundtrack and a massive thank you to you for making it all the way to the end.