Rozen Maiden Discussion & Review | Anime Watch Club
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Hello ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Anime Watch Club, a bi-weekly group discussion and review where the hosts of the Why You Say Anime podcast nominate and volunteer shows either we haven't seen or shows that hopefully lead to a great discussion. On today's episode, the servants of the Why You Say Anime podcast will be reviewing the 2004 anime Rose and Maiden. Let's meet today's collectors. We got J. Cat, Miles, and the man giving us the rundown, Mr. Patty Mills himself. Pat, take it away.

Alrighty. Yeah, so we watched Rosen Maiden done by Studio Nomad, sourced from a manga in fall of 2004. It is an action drama supernatural sign-in, which shocked me when I read that like six episodes in. But yeah, it's a sign-in apparently. Rating a PG-13. And yeah, why don't we do our first impressions on this show? First couple episodes, let's say. Spoiler free, Miles, take it away. What have you got?

So I just sort of picked the show because I thought it looked cool, but it is in fact a show from 2004. If you know my general philosophy on anime, it's that it was bad until like 2011 with some rare exceptions. I enjoyed the show, but it's definitely not anything special. I think for the time period, it's something that

I would enjoy more compared to some of its contemporaries, though it definitely suffers from some flaws of its era, right? There is, you know, the first genre, and though this is alphabetical, listed by Pat was like action. There are action sequences. They aren't terribly exciting or anything, though, right? Like, it all feels like it's animated in 2004. Um...

and not, you know, like a high budget thing or anything like that too. Overall though, I, you know, what I recommend this, I think that, and this is such good advice, but like there's a certain type of person who just digs this aesthetic. I'm one of them, right? If you look at it and you're like, this seems like something I would enjoy, you will. And the fact that it is flawed in a number of ways, you'll still probably enjoy the show enough to give it like a seven or eight, something like that. I would imagine.

There's some heart to it. There's some funny scenes. There's some good moments, but there's also some lacking moments. So, you know, it's helpful if this is what I would say for recommending this or not, is that if you look at it, you probably will know if you will enjoy it. And those are my thoughts. Fair enough. All right, Kat, what about you? From somebody who looked at it and liked

Thought that they would enjoy it to somebody who looked at it and said, this is not for me. Yeah, I did not super enjoy this show. This first impression of the show is that it's definitely reeking from its old, from its time period. And I was not huge on the, on the aesthetic. Like I, I do like pretty shows, but also like,

This was... I had to check. I was trying to check my misogyny, like the internalized misogyny that I had to make sure that I wasn't just being like, oh, this is not macho enough for me. And I was just like, no, I just don't fucking do this. It's just...

Like the aesthetic and the music just wasn't up my alley and I wasn't super, super excited or to watch the every new episode after I finish it. Like I had to take at least an hour to two hours between episodes to finish it, which is why it took so long to finish it. And it just it was kind of a drag for me.

I personally would recommend it. But, you know, like Miles said, if you look at it and you like it, you'll probably like it. All right. Jay, what about you? Yeah, I guess I'll go ahead and say that my first impressions of this show were honestly pretty strong. I think that this show has the sort of aesthetic and vibe to it that it really latches onto. And like...

sets it sets up that tone and aesthetic right at the start really with sort of your introduction to the main characters of june and shinku as well as like the music honestly which i really enjoyed quite a bit um

I don't know, I liked this. I've watched a lot of anime from around this time period because this is sort of when I originally got into anime, like 2004, 2005. I mean, I was like eight when this came out, basically. Perfect time for me to be watching cartoons or whatever, you know?

I looked at it for, I put it in the perspective of the time that it was released. And I think that it's honestly pretty well made for the time. Like it's not a masterpiece by any means when it comes to like animation or anything like that, but it it's far from like the jankiest thing that I've ever seen personally. So yeah, I would definitely recommend this to somebody. If you have like an appreciation of the sort of like,

uh goth gothic or lolita fashion trend uh if you're into like dolls obviously if you like zatch bell i think that this is a big uh sort of thing as well as like honestly i could see this whenever the tournament starts going like almost like a jojo's angle in a weird way so like i'm kind of i'm excited to see more of it like i'm definitely going to check out more of it so i would recommend

All right. Pete, what about you? Yeah, Jay took the words out of my mouth where I was like, is this like Zatch Bell? Is this like Lucifer and the Biscuit Hammer? I think in terms of first impressions, this show is different because what I thought the first three episodes were compared to the last three episodes were like night and day where I thought like, oh, this is gonna be like a fun servant master type of show like Lucifer and the Biscuit Hammer. And then it kind of turns into fate. And I was like, oh, OK, like,

Oh, this is not where I thought it was going like at all, because there's a lot of like slice of life elements into this show where it was way more fun and outgoing than I thought it would be for sort of how the last couple of episodes finish and wrapped up. So first impressions, I would say like you need to, this isn't like a rule of three episode show. Like I think you need to watch the first season to get the actual vibe of

of what this was going for because the start off, I really did not like the show because I did like things just kind of came out of nowhere for no reason.

I was like, okay, there's like no introduction to these characters. Like a character literally gets introduced by flying through the window and with like no like reason or whatsoever. But then by the end of it, I was like, I love the cast. I love where it's going. Um, the twists were kind of really fun with like the Alice games and stuff. So this is one of those shows where I just, you can, I don't think you can judge it off the first three, but I would absolutely recommend it. If you're, if you're a fan of Zatch Bell, Lucifer and the biscuit hammer, um,

and kind of fate-esque okay i did not like this show at all i i don't know i was thinking about the uh like when we watched salt or sugar or saft the sugar apper fairy tale you know when we watched that a few weeks ago where it was like oh this isn't this clearly isn't for me but it's not bad i i

Thought about feeling that way. And then I just kept watching the show or I thought that that's how I was going to feel. I should say when I started the show up and then I don't know, I thought the show was bad. Transparently, I really didn't like it very much at all. It's clearly not for me either, but in almost any fashion, like almost nothing in this show is something I, I am usually latched onto. I didn't even make the fake connection, for example, even though I guess it's there, I can kind of see it.

It's a battle royale for one winner. Yeah, but like fate, they actually they battle and kill each other, you know, and like they killed they killed somebody. Yeah. Yeah, they did. Yeah. All right. Well, anyway, said in fate either. Yes. No, no, I know. I know. But like,

I guess. All right. We can talk about it later more. I hated the main character. I hated all the characters. I hated their voices. I hated everything they said. I hated the show. I really did not like the show at all. And it's not like the most offensive thing ever. I appreciate the fact that it didn't sexualize the lollies at all. But, you know, again, that's like, wow, congrats. You didn't kill that person, you know, in real life. So, you know, it's like a...

I don't know. We'll get into it later. I would not recommend this show to anybody, even people who like the aesthetic, because I feel like there's got to be better stuff like what you mentioned, Pete, in your comparisons. I'm almost certain that there's better shows for this. You like Gosek or something, if you like the fashion in it?

right exactly so that that's more what my thought process would be you read human echo everyone should do that uh that takes too damn long it's worth it trust me it's not that long it's not well anyways let's not let it's like 100 hours yes uh but that's if you read normal paste you know i'm like the cool people who read

on two times speed so yeah uh let's move on to let's move on to our uh discussion that's the spoilers going forward for this show i believe we had we have two and a half recommends kinda and is that is that where we ended up miles you were like a half yeah yeah yeah i i think that um as someone who does like the aesthetic and stuff like i think there is value there i don't think the show is

Sort of like a little more positive when you had to say, like, I think if you like this general concept and idea, there's enough there to enjoy it. Though, if it's not something that sort of speaks to you, I don't.

I want to just watch this if you don't look at it and think, I really like the way this looks, basically. Because I think it has an entire, like Jay was talking about it, like atmosphere to it that is pretty consistent with its visual representation. You know, so that's sort of how I would view it, I guess. Yeah.

All right. You know, it's always straddling the line. You know, I'm always like, you'll either like it or you won't. That is your thing. How's that fence you're sitting on, Miles? Oh, it's great. I get what you're saying here, at least. Sometimes I don't get your straddling, but this one makes sense. But yeah, I'm looking forward to... And again, I'm open to having my mind changed. But I also, I don't know, I just found this...

Not good. And also I could see watching the show and being super bored. So don't worry about it. Like I was, I was quite bored. I was, I was so bored watching the show. I'm like, I didn't even really say that. Did I, but like, yeah, I was, we felt it.

Yeah, you could feel that. I'm glad I conveyed my thoughts, at least. I also saw your score before we recorded. Yeah, you did. OK, good. Yeah, no, I'm sorry. I gave it its fair college try and it flunked out in the first semester. So I do. What do we start the show that you work? I like it like immediately. It's pretty easy to tell if Pat's going to like a show or not.

This is some exceptions, but yeah, this one's not. I can't think of a singular time I've been surprised, honestly. In a vacuum, in a world where I didn't know Pat

like just arbitrarily and without reason liked high school of the dead, I would have been shocked. Had he given it the score he did last week, but I knew it. So I wasn't surprised, but, but like in a world where I didn't know it going in, I would have been very surprised. I just also want to say, since I'm here now giving that shit and eight was a crime and Pete paid some people to silence me and miles and

Yes, it was a whole thing. Pat gave it a 9. I gave it a 9. I was going to say, I gave it a 9. It got an 8 overall. It didn't. It was lower because... Oh, it was lower because math came in. We all did the math wrong. Yeah.

And it was really hard. There were three numbers to add together, and then you had to divide those numbers by three. I had just lost my job. That's my counterpoint an hour before the episode. So there we go. Oh, yeah. I forget real this episode. My counter counterpoint. How do you feel about that? That people who like the show so much. You know, I'm however many episodes I've

N minus one for however many episodes. Correct on math so far. We'll get there. I mean, I even used a calculator and I still fucked it up. So that's pretty impressive. I wouldn't admit to that. No, no. Well, that's how out of it I was. You are in fact allowed to be out of it in that case. It is perfectly fine. But I will still take the opportunity to tease you. I deserved it. I'll take it.

I'll wear that badge and, you know, yeah, let's let's talk Rose and Maiden. Right. Aren't we supposed to be doing that? Yeah, let us do that. So I'll give the synopsis that we can get into the meat of this. So the main character of the show is a small, depressed boy named June, who is Pete's favorite character. Hold on with this. Jesus, that's June.

Self-described neat. Yeah, Jun is a shut-in and very clearly suffering from large amounts of agoraphobia, amongst other things. His parents are completely absent because he is the character in an anime, and he's taken care of by his sister, who plays Lacrosse, which I've never seen before in an anime, which was kind of fun. I liked that.

He stumbles upon a doll named Shinku, and she's like a magical doll. And she's one of the seven Rose and maidens. And would you just know, as luck would have it over the course of the rest of the story, he stumbles upon four of them or so. Is it four? Yep.

Yep, okay. And they all become friends and he slowly comes out of his shell. The Rose and Maidens have a little subplot where they participate in this thing called the Alice Game where they basically highlander each other because there can be only one. And the winner gets to become a real girl and fulfill their destiny of

not disappointing their father. More or less. I'm sure that'll go great for them if we ever consume season two of this. So the intro episode, we see Shinku defend Jun using her powers to animate some dolls and stuff to protect him. In the second episode, there is a doll named Tina Ichigo, the true villain of the series. That's my girl. Who attempts to

I guess, Highlander Shinku. But then she ends up joining the team because Shinku is a nice Highlander and is like, there can be more than one. And that's sort of the premise that we're starting on. So I guess let's talk about it because we're going to have differing opinions here. First couple episodes here. Well, this will be interesting, too, to Pete, because Pete, you were talking about how like, oh, it sort of surprised you how different it

But starting at episode two, we already sort of get that Highlander vibe with Shinku's fight with Hina Ichigo. So for like Jay, who is sort of like latched onto this quickly, I'd love to hear why. And for the varying degrees of not enjoying this, you know, from Pat to Pete potentially is a gradient with some cat in the middle.

We, you know, let's hear about like why this didn't resonate with you. So let's start with negatives. Pat, why were you bored? That's always a tough question, isn't it? You know, it didn't resonate. Then I have to describe. Yeah, it. What do you think? OK, how about this? What do you think it could have done differently? Keeping a similar concept to have hooked you more? How about that?

I plead the fifth there. I don't think there's anything this show could have done to like make me want to enjoy it. Honestly, like the, just again, this aesthetic doesn't speak to me in any way. Uh, maybe not have them be dolls or make them not sound like awful. I, I don't know. I watched the dub and I was, it's a dub from 2004, Pat. I guess I shouldn't have, but, uh,

I did not like the main character and his motivations. I guess the idea is, oh, he talks to dolls because he can't talk to anybody else. Haha, that's the point. But that didn't connect to me at all or resonate with me, I guess, however you want to phrase it. And yeah, I mean, through the first few episodes, I was just like, how is this a seinen? Or a seinen, however you pronounce it. Like how they fight, but they...

It doesn't feel like they fight with consequence, at least. Yuru camp is a seinen. It's just a demographic. Seen doesn't mean dark or serious or anything. It means targeted towards older men, right? Or older teenagers. I don't understand. What's my second favorite genre? Uh...

I guess slice of life favorite slice of life. You can still target older men with like non the aspects of this that are are targeted towards older men, right? It's like your main character, like the person whose lens you're seeing this through is like a social outcast who's a man who gets who has like interests that he's ostracized for and then like he's able to find, you know, mutual

respect and that sort of hobby of his pays off and leads to like lasting relationships and stuff you know it's sort of you know is it the most sign in thing that's ever signed no but like I don't really think we get like a female perspective or anything in this that's like super strong or anything you know what I mean like I think

As much as in the background Jun is, it really is his journey. And that's probably something a lot of people reading random manga in 2004 would be able to latch on to. The sort of feeling of not having anyone and maybe like finding a community in a more niche area of expertise or whatever. This was in the same magazine as Yurikuma Urashi, by the way. Damn. Just so you know. Okay.

I'm trying to think of what else it could have done, but yeah, this premise didn't connect to me at all. And was it really just like that? They're dolls like that's that's the issue that they're dolls.

It can be, yes. I'm just curious. I mean, kind of, maybe. I don't really care if they were dolls. I hate the way they look. I hate... I've never connected with this, like, gothic Lolita bullshit. Pardon me for almost saying bullshit. That's crazy. Like, I don't find it at all interesting. The only instance where I've ever seen a character with that design and thought, oh, that's pretty cool and it fits is Gwen from League of Legends. And then literally outside of that, I've never once been like, oh, this...

Oh, like I love how they look or I think that they fit the story that they're in or I think that that's really cool. I don't know. I've never found any interest. Like Shadow's House, I think is a good example of a show that I tried to watch because I'd heard a lot of good things and like the aesthetic there didn't really do anything for me. I thought the show was interesting enough, but...

What about Ruby, which has like is very clearly highly inspired by like Gothic Lolita? Yeah, I know some of the some of their designs are like rubies. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's not it's not as heavy as this. I'm not this is even like I got you. Like I'm just like asking if like like if if you like take something that's like 50% that like Ruby Rose, right? Like is that?

Like, do you think... I suppose so, yeah. The fact that she uses the Grim Reaper's scythe practically and, like, a scythe that's also a gun probably makes it a little easier for me to consume than just this. Than a watering pail? Yeah. Yeah, I...

I just, I, it felt like the show was trying to do a lot of, do a lot of different things too. Like the action in it wasn't very good. I didn't think, especially like the fights near the end of the show where literally there's, they're just standing there and things are flying from them to the other person. And like, it's a turn-based attack. Yeah.

I, yeah, but like, it, it doesn't, it didn't visually happen. Like, you know, like it was not visually stimulating. Right. So like, I guess like, but it tries to do it. It tries to do making you feel bad for this kid. And I, I guess I, maybe I'm a psychopath again for the 10th time on the show, but I didn't feel bad for this loser at all. Um, a lot of this is self-inflicted, which I understand that happens, but like,

I didn't feel I had no connection to this guy. Jay has a point on this, too, because I was you know, we can go into it more. But like by the time they wrote this, the reason he was like a sad boy wasn't given in the manga. So they just made that up. They were like, I don't know. He failed the test once, which I will agree with you is not a great reason to.

be this much of a sad boy it would be great it'd be much better if it was like oh hey i miss my parents and i wish that they existed in my life like that would have been cool at least like give them like motivations that i i would find make sense but like again it's it's clearly not for me either so it's hard for me to like sit here and not just dislike almost anything that this show did uh it i again i guess it was targeted for me as a sign-in technically but i don't know i i i

did not relate to any of the characters in the show other than the lacrosse playing girl and even then they don't show them playing lacrosse she just has the stick really i would have liked that that would have been fun that's obviously like a not an actual reason to dislike it but would have been cool um into a lacrosse anime halfway through yeah i would love that i would have enjoyed it more um the sixth sport

Like the servant stuff to the back and forth. I didn't really understand. Oh, he's bound to her. He kissed the ring or whatever. And then they're bound together, but then she beats someone, but then decides not to kill them or dismantle them or whatever. And then keeps them around. And then, yeah, the slice of life aspect too. Like I know Pete liked that part of it. The fact that it turned into a slice of life and there was an entire fucking episode where she's sitting there and

Oh, who ate my strawberry? And they're bickering for the... That's the entire episode. On a rock, my favorite episode of the show. That episode sucked. I'm sorry. I was so bored. Like, I could not...

find any enjoyment in that episode whatsoever because it's just such a stupid argument and a stupid fight and there was no reason for it to be in this show i would love to know if you have a reason for why it was in the show because again i would love to understand the show better it made so little sense to me it's just june enjoying himself a little bit which i think is

partially part of the little journey we go on, right? Is what I would say. Like he gets into the whole war that they have where before he is very standoffish about any of the antics is why I would say it was in the show. Now it's up to you if you think that should last 23 minutes or 10, but that's the purpose that I would put. However, let's continue going. Kat, you were someone who was negative on this initially. What,

What are your first couple episodes? Do you agree with Pat? Do you think there's something it could have done? What do we got? Here's the thing. Here's a fact that you may or may not know about me. I don't talk about it that much. I have automatophobia. I have issues with mannequins, which is funny because it's a mannequin right behind me. This thing fucks with me. Like, this thing legit fucks with me most of the time. Remember when you were saying you were trying not to swear? Yeah.

Sorry, it's been a long day. That's ruined it for all of us. So this thing scares me at night. Like, the only reason why it's still in my apartment is because my wife uses it to fit clothes to her and to other people and to hold clothes that she's making. That's the only reason why it's still here. My wife also makes dolls. Those dolls creep me out. Like...

I don't like dolls, and the fact that the underlying part of the show is based around dolls takes it down at least a point and a half for me. So the highest that the show could be at is an eight and a half for me, personally. And...

going forward for the, that I don't like June. June is not a fun character to build the show around. And I get the reason why like the show would be targeted towards meets. It's trying to help them understand that, Hey, you have the ability to like to gain connections. You don't have to be scared like that, that,

might be like a core point behind this entire show and trying to help people because, you know, a lot of shows have a point behind them or have a demographic that is trying to, that is trying to appeal to, that's trying to tell a moral, right? This is not to me. I have a lot of friends. I am actively outgoing, even though I can be kind of shy. Like I am not the target demographic for this show.

Furthermore, this dude is a dick to his sister who is a sweetheart. I hate that so much. Also...

Action, just baseline bad. I don't, I like, I can't, I can't get behind the action. Like, and for a show like this, action is something that I can turn my brain off and go, yeah, but like, it's like, it feels like,

uh the first season of what's that uh anime called radiant like the first couple of episodes where i wasn't great on and i get that not a lot of people have watched radiant but like i i just like it's not it's not great to me personally and then man

My biggest drag on this show is I hated the Slice of Life sections. And I'm not pat. I like Slice of Life. EuroCamp is one of my favorite shows of all time.

I love slice of life. This show is not you. We can't, this show is not do it yourself. This show is bad head. When it comes to slice of life, in my opinion, the strawberry episode, I wasn't, I didn't like, cause it was boring. I sat there and was just like, Oh God. Okay, cool. It's one of the reasons why one of my, one of my, one of my,

One of the best positives for this show to me is that it's good background noise because it makes me feel like I'm not alone. But if I remember, oh God, the people that are talking. You just fell into a trap, Kat.

You fool. You have activated the trap card of, oh, I can't relate to June, but wait a minute. This show has dolls in it that talk that make me feel like I'm not alone. Kind of like the theme that you said you couldn't relate to. Maybe we're too close to home for Kat. Yeah. Wow. Okay, great. Awesome. Except dolls, you're a 3D printer guy. Like, you're just 3D printing dolls. Absolutely.

absolutely not i'm not were you born in june what no i don't want a 12 chance of it working no uh no you didn't you know when my birthday is i don't i couldn't remember you no one remembers man i don't remember when anyone's birthday sometimes i forget my birthday bro bro i have forgotten my birthday my birthday is in november i am okay

I am the absolute opposite. Oh, well, no, I'm not. I'm in the fall. I'm not in the summer. It's close to the exact opposite. You can say that. I'm cold. I'm cold. That's hot. I don't like the heat. But, like, the thing is, this show's slice of life is not good, in my opinion. And, like, if you're gonna be...

If you're going to be a hybrid slice of life action or hybrid slice of life, like kind of fantasy action type of show, you need to either nail the action, which it didn't, or the slice of life, which it didn't. And I didn't like either of those things. Those two things did not mix to me. And it felt kind of jarring, but

I didn't like, I didn't like any of like either of those two core principles. Not to say I didn't like the entire show as a whole, but I didn't like those two core principles. And that brings it down a lot for me. Yeah. If there's look, you just need to ready me. Okay. If we get through this at the end and you're like, I didn't like the two pillars of this show, but that's not to say I didn't like this show and give it seven out of 10.

I'm going to say even a six. I will jump out of a window. Okay? And it will be your fault. Good! Good! You got in a stump switch! Yeah! Good! You think I won't do it? I think I won't do it, I'm a principal! Oh, sorry. The bad guy's got to talk for a long time. Yes, now... But Pete, you didn't like the first couple episodes you were saying, so I am curious what you thought about

I just thought like how everything came together was a little messy. I think by the end of it, when they were like the core group, I was like fine with it, but sort of like how they set up the core cast. I thought it was a little like, you know, he gets the main character. He gets Shinku by ordering Amazon Prime or something like that. It's like, okay, if I'm comparing it to something like Fate, when you see something like what's the fucker's name with Archer?

shiru shiru like you know they come from like prominent families it makes sense why like they would have like this lineage of why they're doing battles and stuff like that with like these servants this is just like it's just like a dude and then he orders an amazon package and it's a doll it's like all right like i it's not like the best thing that's ever happened to set up but like i can overlook it and i did because like by the end of it like it didn't matter

But some of like the core things that like really stood out to me why I love this show while the action I think was bad. I thought like

the like the witch's world like if we're doing like a madoka thing like the the battle worlds that they went into were like really interesting like it felt like they were going into like this mystical battle that reminded me a lot of madoka so i was a big fan of that i would completely disagree with the slice of life elements i thought was great um i love the fact that like shinku is like this you know she's prim and proper and everything like that but then she's still like

She's like, she's like, has to make time for detective coon coon. Like something along those lines is like really fun. Like for a slice for you in a little bit. Yeah. You know, for like a slice of light. Yeah. It's like, it's like, you can still find fun. And like, I guess if you're like a doll, I feel like that's probably more targeted, targeted towards like an adolescent side of yourself. And then being like entranced and like door, the explorer bluey or something like that to me kind of makes sense with like the theme of the show. But I think the, I guess,

I guess for me, the difference between like Pat and Kat and maybe myself and Jay was like the core of what the show was going for. I think just like it hit the nail on the head. Like I like the idea of like this creator of seven souls, like sort of like making this like what it is, like the idea like that they're.

There's the conflict with like Shinku and the other dolls with like the father aspect. And then June with like his personal problems. I sort of thought how they melded that together into like the actual story was really well done. So by the end of it, I was like pretty entranced by the story. I thought it was like complex enough to want me to want to watch more because I do like this, like why they're fighting for, uh,

the father aspect of like the Alice games where like they really want like the attention of father, you know, like they're, they want the attention of their creator. I think like that kind of concept is pretty neat though. When you wrap it all together, was the action terrible? Yes. I actually thought the music was like,

really really bad i don't know if you've ever watched i really like the music if you ever watched wcw wrestling um from like the 90s everybody has like the same entrance song but it's like in different chords so remind me like the i don't know if you this is for all my wrestling heads out there if you ever listen to the nwo theme song it's like it's like one instrument that's what this the the ost sounds like it was like

one person playing guitar and then like when the guitar was done it was like one person playing bass and it didn't really feel like correlated but like in a 2004 show like who who cares like watching it back 21 years i'm not expecting like a grand orchestra but i just thought like the music

I don't like the best part of the music was when I think it's the last episode where he's like June's going for a walk and there's like a recorder and like that music was like really fun. But I just think like for me, the core of like the whole group coming together and sort of dealing with their problems and the ways that they dealt with it was done really well. I'm a tag in my tag team partner, Jay.

I was just going to say that I agree with you on the music front. Wow, you agreed on him with about a negative aspect that he had. Who would have thought? I know, because I thought the music was really repetitive. So I think I can see where Pete was coming from with that aspect. And the walk at the end I thought was cool. Yeah.

even though it's just the promised Everland slideshow, but fair enough. Same idea. Which you liked, by the way. I thought it was good because they closed the story at least. Yeah, this one didn't close the story. So there we go.

jay go ahead sorry thank you i'm glad that i finally get to have my turn uh fucking man you and cat are some old haters dude pete is such a polite motherfucker but i was and cat ruined it already so i'm just that's my one f-bomb and i'm not gonna say anymore but cat you're full of baloney pat

You're full of malarkey. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. What? Yeah. You make me want to grab a shillelagh, honestly. You guys...

This is something that I feel like happens kind of often whenever you guys don't relate to stuff. You put it in a box of something that you want to relate to, that you do relate to. So in this case, like Battle Shonen or whatever, you're criticizing this show for being something that it's not set out to be. The whole Alice game stuff background, that's just kind of like...

set dressing for this season like it informs the characters relationships with each other and their background it's not so much an important part of what we were watching so I think that expecting the battle scenes to be like some insane sakuga for a show from 2004 made by a no-name studio by the way is a little ridiculous like I think that that is just like holding it to a standard that it was never going to reach and you

We have things that we have reviewed before that you guys are willing to hold your tongue on that because you just kind of like vibe with it more. It's one thing if you don't like the aesthetic of it because it's dolls or whatever. I get that. Like, it's definitely not for everybody, but it's another thing to just simply judge something that,

Like it's, it's like you're judging something for something that's just not like you're judging. You're, you're trying to, you're at the state fair doing pig judgments on like a sheep. And it just makes no sense to me. I have never said I'm not a hypocrite.

Okay, and I would what I would say I think that's production as to what I a lot of what I said I thought but like I felt the I just don't understand the I boiled it down to its bare essentials is the way I would say like because like okay so like, but what were some of the things that you thought the show did well then because I would love because you mentioned like oh the the show this season is about establishing their relationships. I didn't I did not like the dolls do dumb dumb stuff together.

Okay, and I didn't, so there we go, I guess. Okay, cool. I think that they had an interesting set of relationships between obviously the twins. Even though I don't like Hina Ichigo as a character, I think that what she facilitated in the plot was necessary for what the show is doing. You need a silly, goofy, childish gremlin to...

to have hijinks in the slice of life aspect of it. If it was just Shinku there, then it would just be like her and June sitting quietly while she's on the bed and he's on the computer. Like they're a millennial couple doing parallel play. Yeah, I don't know. I just... I just learned a new term. Yeah. It's a good one. That's...

Yeah, no, I mean, I think that that is good. I don't know. I like, again, is the middle between, I guess, the two camps here. Like, stuff that I enjoyed is, like, the Detective Kun Kun bits. Pat kind of reminded me of, like, Rainbow Shogun stuff from... Which is, like, a part of that show that I really enjoyed, right? So, like, the repeated jokes of, like, oh, you're the culprit, and, like...

that sort of stuff and how the dolls reacted to it, I thought was pretty fun. You know, what I'll say is that like, God, we're just sitting down on this fence. We're sitting down on it. Because like, I agree with Jay more so that like, I didn't really mind that the action was bad because I had absolutely no expectation of it being good. However, what I guess I would think as well is that like,

especially for you pat i know just random stuff happening with like no grounding of what is happening or why is like always bothered you and like that definitely happens in this right like there's no set power bases for the dolls really um as far as fighting goes they have like external things that they can do that are like more explored and i guess actually this is mostly true for like shinku because like

We see some of the other, like the twins actually have like a relatively like, oh, I'm watering stuff. And then a plant grows around someone, right? Like that, that makes sense. But Shinku does like a lot of like, she has some orbs and stuff. And then Sephiroth has... She has two wings. Well, she has one wing at the end. Oh yeah, she loses one. Yeah. She just throws out feathers that attach to the...

the guy in his dream, which I guess, yeah, the dream world. So whatever, but there's like not a lot, you know, I, I felt like there wasn't a lot of ability to tell when stuff was like potent or not. And you just sort of had to go based on like the vibes of how the characters were acting. It's not like a huge deal for me, but like, I think it's,

valid to be upset about that because even though I agree with Jay that like the slice of life aspects are like the larger part of this, they do dedicate like an episode and a half at the end to these fights. It is like a pretty hefty part, especially of like the climax of the show. And that's me sitting on a fence. I also...

Like, again, I think it does need to be reiterated that this is a show from 2004. As someone who loved Naruto growing up, I don't know if you've rewatched the original series of Naruto, but even Shippuden has literally made me motion sick before with how bad the animation is. And that's a show that is all about fights. And I don't know, I give it a pass because I enjoy...

certain aspects of it like the characters and world building and stuff and i think that it kind of fits for this sort of thing too but on i don't know i give it more leeway honestly because again it's not i don't think it's really trying to be a battle show like the tournament is there but especially at least in this season it's not really like they're kind of trying to find reasons not to fight for most of them rather than to fight that's kind of like

you know, what they're going for the theme. No, that's fair. And, and the fighting was like, I thought it looked like shit, but I, I also don't care about fights like, like we've established, right? Like that's not something I normally care about at all. I just thought that that was weird. Like, it'd be like, what if fate had bad fights? Like, well then what's the point of the show is the way I looked at it. And again, in this show, at least in this season, it was only,

Like part of the season, but I, I, I was looking for things to like, and I really, I'm, I've been racking my brain. Like, let's see you guys talk about what you liked about the show. And other than the, the aesthetic and that feels like to me, at least the, the aesthetic and the, some of the, the ways that they played with that aesthetic, you guys all liked, um,

But I can't think of a single thing I liked in the show. Now I think harder about it, like truly, like I didn't like the characters at all. I didn't relate to a single one of them or enjoy their interactions with each other. I didn't enjoy their voice acting or the music or the art in the show either, particularly. Again, it's probably a style thing, but it was not for me.

I didn't really follow what was, what these games were or how they were set up very clearly, at least. And again, maybe that's again, probably because I didn't like it very much, but I was, I'm just trying to like, I want to hear. Can I ask you something? Yeah, go ahead. So I do agree that the dub for this show was not good, but I kind of figured that out within, you know, the first impressions, three episodes or so. And I just,

switch to the sub is there like a particular reason why why if you don't like a dub you wouldn't just switch to the sub or another dub or whatever like i don't i'm not sure i kind of maybe it's off topic but i'm not sure i kind of understand that aspect of it of if you dislike the dub like and think it's horrendous why keep listening to it

I guess I didn't think it would make that big of a difference because I didn't like not only the voice acting aspect, but like what they were saying, too. I didn't really think that they were. That's fair, I guess. But, you know, like I didn't think that it like and it was easier for me to watch that way, truthfully, too, because I was so already out of the show by the second episode that I was. And I again, this is where I want I would love to hear some of the things that you guys really liked about the show so that I can like try to see.

where you guys are on this. Well, let's move on then, because we have more stuff to discuss. I think this was like a relatively good view on like general thoughts and everything and like some more deep diving stuff. But as as I like to do in episodes with these sort of ensemble type casts, right, we're going to have differing opinions on which members of these casts we are fans of or not fans of like Pete,

has his little strawberry flag out for Hina Ichigo and everyone else doesn't. True. So, Pat, you might not have a lot to contribute to who your favorite character is in this, and I apologize for that. Kat, do you have a favorite character from this that someone you enjoyed? Sakurada Noh. I like that. That would also be mine.

Because she was just a genuinely nice person. She wanted the best for her brother. And that, I felt, was admirable. That's about it. Okay, let's go to Pete then. Pete, what do we like about Hina Ichigo? I think Jay actually said the best. Give us a little context on who she is. Jay said the best, though. It's like the scenes where it's not...

filled with drama and fights and everything like that. I think that's where, uh, Hina Ichigo like shines. I think that she is legit the glue of this entire story because she ties, I feel like she ties all the characters together with her playfulness. Um, her like resemblance of like being like, just like a pure adolescent child of the doll that she is. I think like really, she adds like the fun to, um,

the non height moments. And because there are more, I would say slower scenes than faster scenes that that's where you need a character like her to shine. It's kind of like why I love Nadesh go so much from laid back camp.

is that she is the chaos. The story needs to fill in the gaps. I bring this up a lot of times with like, like romances or dramas where when you're not having that, you need to fill in the gap somewhere. A lot of times they'll do that with like comedy and with gags and stuff like that. And that way you can progress the sort of like the side plots or the fill in the time to get to the next point. I think that's what Hina's character does. And I,

I just thought she was like a bundle of fun. Like I, she resembles what I think a kid her age would be, you know, drawing on the walls. I'm sure miles can relate to that where it's like, it's like, yeah, you hate it. But like, that's what that character is. Like that character is a child. And she, I think she plays that role perfectly. Yeah.

Yeah, I guess that one, I think that's right, because now that I think about it, I found her very annoying, but I also loved the interactions that people had with her. Like, I thought they were funny. And then every once in a while when they used her in like a subvertive way, I also thought it was funny. It was my favorite example, but the one that I can think of off the top of my head is when, oh my God, Shinku was like, oh, and this is a toilet.

this is like a bathroom. And then he knows like, yeah, I know that you idiot. And then like, you know, Shinku wants to die, you know, and there's a lot of moments with my son where my wife and I will,

We have to not laugh because he's doing something that's like inappropriate or whatever, but like we can't help ourselves, but like we're not supposed to positively enforce it. It does have, I guess, like a similar vibe to that. Highlighting really quick before I bounce to Jay on who his favorite character is. There was a moment in this with the animation that I was actually insanely impressed with, which is when.

During the infamous Strawberry episode that we all seem to have different opinions on, when Hina Ichigo makes a point that sort of corners Suiseki into almost having to admit that she saw it, and the animators have her face go flat and then thinking, and then to...

Like her pleading like, oh, I didn't steal it. Sort of like this entire thing. And I thought it was like an amazing range of facial things where you could tell exactly what

what she was thinking and like planning by her facial expressions which is something that i think anime lacks generally um and so that that impressed me in the show you know it's a lot like shoujo comedies where they do a lot of like visual gags with their face like that have you ever seen like we need to doke they do that a lot to do that for their form of comedy because like the dialogue isn't there they'll do it with their face and you can like see like

the visuals of it way better than how it would be delivered in like a dialogue, which is good. Cause like an issue I have with anime just like generally is that they just say, everyone always says what they're doing all the time and what they're thinking and feeling all the time. And like, they don't, people don't, you don't have like silent moments like that. And it's not like this show doesn't ever do that either. Like the show definitely does the thing where someone just says someone's name.

to like indicate that they're sad about that person being sad or whatever but like i thought that was a really good moment jay who do we got here for like a favorite one of these characters for you and why

Oh, dude, I mean, it's Suigento, of course. She's just sick. I think that her whole kind of aesthetic is great. The voice acting for her goes insane in the Japanese dub, in my opinion. I don't know, and I just really liked her whole sort of arc of not wanting to be seen as junk because she is incomplete. I think that that reveal was...

like such a heartbreaking reveal to do. Like when she's like burning alive and screaming and shit like that. Honestly, like I literally said to Simone, we were both watching. I was like, you know, I feel like they probably could have said something about this to June earlier because all of them know about it. I liked it that they didn't. Because another thing that anime does that this doesn't do was like is right before the villain dies, they'll do a flashback.

And then, you know, we would have seen like the guy working on her and then being like, I'm going to go out for cigarettes so we can get though. And there's like never coming back. And then she would have been like, I really want to be Alice so I can I can do that. And you see her like trying a couple of times and it doesn't work. And then she's like, I'm going to be evil now so that I can achieve my dreams. And they didn't do that. They just like.

while she was burning alive we learn part of her backstory and it's like touched upon but we don't get like a whole villain flashback and i i like that because i'm not a fan of the villain flashback also her name means mercury lamp and that's really cool um yeah

Yeah, I think that she was just like a very interesting character. Obviously, she's kind of like kind of got a bit more badassery going on compared to the others and like reading into the differences between her and the anime and the manga. I think it's pretty interesting as well. Just another example of like the changes they added like.

In the manga, the reason why she's damaged is because of her wings, because they sprout out of her back and crack her spine and shit like that. So there's a bit more of a body horror element to it as well that they have going on. So I think, honestly, they were just in the kitchen cooking hard when they designed this character. And it shows if you look at how she's by far the most popular character in the series. And when you think about how she is the first doll...

Most of the time, your seventh doll is going to be more well-made because you've made more dolls. So I love the fact that she is the first doll and she's incomplete. I think that's really cool. He's also a bit more ambitious than the others, right? Like with the wings and everything. It is pretty interesting, that whole dynamic that she has. It can show why she has some pride in

And like being the first in like her, you know, that thing where you feel you deserve things. Holy shit. Yep. That emotion. That's a word. You're asking the wrong guy. Cool. Anyone. I say, I say really 70 times an episode. You're asking the wrong guy. Um,

Oh my god, I am ashamed of myself. The emotion of like, what? You think you deserve things. You are... Oh, entitlement. Yes. Thank you. Like, her entitlement, but then also like, the fact that she's incomplete sort of shows like, what she's actually ashamed about and how she like, reacts to like, certain things that Shinku says to her, which is, I thought was pretty interesting. For my Nori fans out there, I do have a quick question.

Only thing that was a little weird in the show for me, like that was like stereotypically anime weird is Nori is having a dream. And then she randomly just says, no, June, we can't do that. You're my brother.

nori fans are never beating the allegations um that was weird i don't know i just want to say i thought that was weird it didn't nothing else about the show it was sort of like ties into those yeah it was it was really weird let me let me clarify this nori is not my favorite because that's why she has earned it nori is my favorite because it's a default

okay yeah i guess so even that playing field out a little fair enough i guess i would i would agree with cat that she was my favorite by nature of although yeah that that scene yeah i will give again this is where the show i think deserves credit that was the only weird anime moment kind of scene in the show uh which good job anime for not

taking childlike characters and dolls and sexualizing them uh pretty much at all like at all i i'm very glad that that show that the show didn't do that i found uh nori endearing i guess maybe i think she's a she's a good character but that's just that was a weird moment and it is extremely weird i don't blame you and i don't blame you for having that stick with you and it's like this is my favorite of

my favorite character simply because I really did not vibe with any of the dolls. I think Suiganto, or however her name is... Suiganto. Suiganto. Suiganto. I did like Sephiroth's aura maxing, and I thought that she looked cool, and her motivations were interesting. I also thought, though, that I guess she just plays with her food. I don't understand. She sends...

She's done learning and gaining power and practice. She monologues, right? She does the villain monologue thing a bit. Yes, though I think it's fair to criticize it, even though that was more common back in the day. You can't monologue nowadays. You have to be decisive.

I have a perfect way for this show to have been much better in my eyes. If they weren't dolls and they were professional wrestlers and they were competing for a shot at like the main roster.

I would die in corporate with a 12-year-old boy. Instead of... What if they were 12-year-old boys like wrestlers? Instead of father, they have Vince McMahon and Shinku as Perk Angle. Ooh, you can't call him Perk Angle anymore.

So do you want them to be like full grown men or do you want them to be like little action figure wrestlers like they used to have? No, full grown men and women. Just like Stone Cold Steve Austin is just in the show. But it's more like

More like Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins, and... I know four wrestlers. It's the same thing. Soap Cold and Roman Reigns are the same thing. Yeah, that's fair. All nuance will be lost on me, Kat. I apologize. But like,

people that are competing for a main for a main roster that it like uh going from the indies to the uh to the big league type of thing okay well i'll nominate nacho libre uh next time and um we could love that my watch that my wife would send me with like a notepad of all the things that nacho libre comes from in uh mexican culture if we did that okay um

Boom, boom. Does anyone else have any other topics? There was one thing that I sort of wanted to put Jay on the spot for. Yeah. Like to make you talk about things, not like call you out or anything. I just like, but like, I wanted to wrap up anime discussion because I, you had pointed out some good differences or interesting differences between the manga and the show. And I think specifically June is like a really interesting,

key difference there because i don't let's talk about it as a group first and then jay you can go into the the differences there because we learned june is so depressed because he had like a bunch of pressure on him to be good at school and then like one time he wasn't good at school and then he got bullied or something and like for me that fell a little flat i didn't think that was like the world's greatest reason i don't you know maybe it's different in japan but people didn't really get bullied for

being bad at school ever in my experience you know what did you guys think about like the resolution of the anime did for that

it was fine it was like okay it's like whatever it filled the role we've seen it in like other anime where it's just like they're either maybe they're bullied or something like that and then they come through by the end of it and they're like they're all fine and dandy it's just part of growing up and like i felt like this is just like one of those moments and he did it and i was like cool and moved on i guess i was like i really wasn't invested i was more invested in the doll story than june

yeah yeah i about the same honestly i mean like i thought it was fine i would have to watch i mean there is no second season of this particular adaptation but from what i understand the 2013 cover is a reboot that covers more kind of like a former alchemist brotherhood type situation so maiden brotherhood yeah i'd be interested in watching that and like maybe the ova or movie or whatever they have to see like

If he kind of goes through with that character development, because obviously it is a bit of a cliffhanger at the end here. There is a second season. Yeah, there is a second season. I thought it was... There's both. There's a brotherhood, which is Zeus, some German word. And then dreaming. Yeah. And then there's the sequel seasons, which is Traumend.

some other german word that i don't i think these are german maybe they're french they're german they're german cool i don't know yeah it's dreaming that's what okay oh i i would have guessed trauma because the first five letters are the same um but okay but yeah so there's a you can follow up on this and it goes more into the actual like alice game part of it i believe um yeah we get the other two dolls in the second season

It does say, as summer break arrives for other students, June is busy studying on his own, making up for the time lost while he had confined himself to his home. So, W. June. Yeah, he does go back to school in the second season. Congrats. I did it.

Jay, did you want to talk about the differences between June and the manga? Yeah, I'll talk about it a bit. I just thought it was neat, so I want you to. Yeah, for sure.

Basically, for those of you at home who might not know, the main difference is in the anime, like Miles said before, when this was coming out, they hadn't really explained why Jun was, or in the manga rather, they hadn't really explained why Jun was outside of school yet. Compared to in the anime where they said it was just because he got like a B on a test or some shit, which is, I think we can all agree, pretty weak sauce.

In the manga, it's more of like he's generally in like because of the fact that he's into like sewing and dolls and generally girly things. Whenever he wins like a dress designing competition, basically everybody in the school and the teachers included start calling him a pervert.

And that causes him to drop out of school, basically like toxic masculinity, gender roles, that sort of thing. And I think that that, like, we can all agree that's a lot more of an interesting sort of perspective, more in line with the, the sort of themes of the series. Yeah. Yeah.

be 100% more logical why didn't they do that like they didn't know and they weren't as good at writing as the writer of the manga oh that's i guess okay i guess that's fair but like i don't know yeah that would have been better though right it's so much better yeah yeah not even close really

Yeah, it makes him more understandable. It makes the whole scenario more interesting. And like also why he would be so standoffish to the dolls and stuff at first, because he could blame them for like what was happening and everything. But then he like learns to accept himself. Anyways, adapting and writing are different. And we can all thank Game of Thrones for teaching us that. And also Rose and Maiden.

Thanks, Frozen Maiden. Yeah. Does anyone else have anything they want to talk about in this? I guess most likely Pete and or Jay before we last thoughts and wrap up. I'll knock it out and final thoughts.

Yeah, same. Sweet. All right, let's do our final thoughts and our final scores. I will not fuck up the math. By the way, earlier, I just want to give Kat some credit. He wasn't the first person to drop an F-bomb this episode. I don't think I'm like 99% sure I did first. So I'll take the L on that one. No, he just dropped three in about four seconds. That's true. Mine are more calculated than that. I thought I dropped two.

I didn't mean to drop any. I'm sorry. It's all a counter. Yeah, no, but either way, I just wanted to give Kat some credit and then he completely took that away and said, like, no, fuck that. I'm going to take the blame. Yeah, I know. Kat, we were supposed to be on the same team here, man. You know, we're both East Coast kids. You know, we're supposed to like, you know, have each other's backs. Yeah.

All right. North Carolina. Yeah. That's that was especially where cats. Exactly. He's in the Eastern North Carolina. Hey, I knew it. See, I knew that. Yeah. You did say, especially you were being sarcastic. No, never. I'm not sarcastic at all. But yeah, miles. What's your closing thoughts on your final score for Rosen made in 2004? The anime, not the manga, because apparently it sounds like the manga is better.

Yes. Makes more sense, I should say. Like, I don't know. Like all good hosts and people, I will continue to straddle a fence. Overall, I did enjoy this, though I do think that not enjoying this is something that I completely understand. I think that it

It just sort of resonated with me a little bit. I enjoyed some of the humor and everything. I thought the outfits were neat, and I liked Sephiroth. Anything with Sephiroth in it is pretty cool. There were definitely misses in it for me. I think June's arc in this, though they didn't have the answer to it, there's probably a way to write something better than what they did. And I think...

you know the beginning of this especially is a little disjointed and it sort of seems like some stuff is getting skipped peter really like your shirt sorry i'm just missing it it is a great shirt the music there there were like four jingles and i liked all four jingles so you know that is what it is you know i don't think the action was anything to like write home about or whatever but like also fights generally just miss me anyway so like

It would have been wasted on me if it was good. That being said, I'm going to give this a 7 out of 10. Alrighty, 7 out of 10. Kat, what about you? Yeah, so I will say that you guys did make me really take a step back and think...

Oh, wow. This is like, this is a really good point when you're talking about the like the thing about the writers, especially like when it comes to like making your making your magnum opus as your first work and then leaving it on leaving it unfinished.

Because, like, one of the things that famous writers always say is you always, you never want to make your favorite work first. Because if you do and it's good, you will never live up to it. And if you do and it's bad, you will always regret it. Like that type of thing.

So that was something that I was really impressed by, by the conversation. That being said, my thoughts about the rest of the show still are bad, and I don't really like this show much at all. So, final thoughts.

is that this show's music is a, is pretty, it's really bad in my opinion. And it kind of reminded me of the, uh, the DDP theme from WCW, where it's just like, did you, you use music? I never seen you go. Um, so, uh, yeah. Uh, that being said, uh,

The conversation that we had did raise it a point, so I'm giving it a four. Nice. I'm so glad you didn't give it a six or higher because I would have had to jump out of a window. I was also thinking that. I was concerned. When you said, yeah, another point, I was like, oh God, did he just break the record? Did he just kill Miles? Yeah. I would have made me sad. Thank you, Kat, for taking one for the team and not doing that. Jay, what about you? What have you got?

I enjoyed this show well enough. Like, I do agree that parts of it were, like, nothing to write home about. Like, the animation in particular, not a masterpiece by any way, shape, or form. But I think that it succeeded in what it was trying to do, which is make a cast of, like, memorable characters and get this sort of, like, aesthetic and vibe right. In particular, I think that, like,

pretty much all the dolls that hang around the house and june have a very interesting relationship and they did a good job with like kind of the limited resources that they had in terms of story knowing that like certain revelations just weren't even in the manga or in the manga yet i should say you know i'll be the one lone person and say i think the music for this slapped i i was i said

yeah sorry me and miles will be the two lone people standing parallel playing uh in a lighthouse together and uh i lost my train of thought thinking about that i'm not gonna lie but the music was a slapper and i just gotta say that for me this is like a seven out of ten so it was good for the time damn it seven out of ten okay

Pete, what have you got? Sure. The things that I didn't get to that I want to talk about Miyuki Sawashiro, the voice actress for Shinku, who also has done things like Kropika, Shino from Sword Art Online, Selty from Jararara. I thought she killed it. Like an S tier performance. I thought her...

I put it on par with Carapica. I thought she just killed the sub. I thought it was fantastic. For as much as I didn't like the music, the OP and ED, bops. Absolute bangers. I'll give credit where credit's due there. For me, this show was more of like a tale of two tapes where I really did not like the beginning. I thought how they structured it was kind of wonky and a little all over the place. And...

I probably, if I was like a seasonal watcher, I probably would have dropped it. Well, I'm glad I stuck with it because I thought the second half of the show was significantly better. And then once the entire core cast was like together and set up, I really enjoyed it. If we ever, I doubt this would ever happen, but if we ever were to watch the second season for a watch club, I'd be all for it. I think that just where the story could go with the two remaining dolls is very interesting to me. And I just really liked the aesthetic of what it was doing with it.

For a show that came out in 2004, it didn't have swag. It had like, I'm going to say it had moxie. It had something to it that's just unique and different from other shows that I've watched from this time period that I just thought was really cool. Like, it's not just the aesthetic. It's just like everything that encapsulates the show. I thought it was really unique and fun. Had a great time watching it.

like i think just like i well everyone gave their problems with it i think my biggest issue with it was just how things were structured like i i think things could have been structured a little bit better and it's maybe if i ever were to read the manga i'd probably like it a lot more because it sounds like it's significantly more structured but i had a great time watching the show especially the second half it would be like a high seven low eight but i gave it a seven so i'm gonna stick with a seven

Miyuki, really quick, I'm going to plug some stuff. Voiced Lady Oscar in the recent movie rendition of Rose of Versailles. Check out our review on that. Sick plug. She's a coded voice actor. She also did the...

the chick from High School of the Dead. Psycho or whatever her name is. Okay. Actually, she sucks. You like Psycho. I do. I do. I do like her. So the last two shows we reviewed, she's in both of them. I believe I wrote next to her name no notes. She was cool. Yeah. Really, really like

If I had to pick like a standout of anything in the show, it's her like more than the aesthetic. I just thought she killed the Shinku character more than detective Koon Koon Koon close second. I love the vibe that he brought to the show. I love the bluey aspect of the show.

Only there was murder mysteries in Bluey. I'd be a lot more entertained when Coop was watching it. Bring us home. Yeah, bring us home. Pete, you almost stole my thunder there at the end. I was going to say I have no interest whatsoever in watching the second season of this. However, if I were to consume more of it, I would almost read the manga, which just from what I've heard from you guys talking about it, it sounds like it's...

At least a little bit, or it makes more sense. All the things that we talked about already about their motivations or how things are structured might be a little different. So as much of this episode as I spent not liking this show, I don't think it was offensively bad in any way. It wasn't problematic. It wasn't outside of that one category.

dream scene which was weird like there really wasn't anything like like horrendous about this show i was just so goddamn bored watching it i could not uh get into it i i've i really wish i liked it more because it's more fun to watch things that you like than not like so uh yeah you know so for me this show was a four i thought it was bad in terms of entertainment and

I didn't care for it very much from a critical sense either, I don't think. But yeah, it does seem like the manga is a little better at least, so that's cool. So yeah, that wraps up our Rosenmaiden conversation. We average out to a... Again, please check my math here, but I'm pretty sure it's a 5.8. That is correct. It ties us with Angel Beats. Okay.

Yeah, there we go. But that's Rosenmaiden season one from 2004. Now, Miles, why don't you reveal to us what we're watching two weeks from now? Hey, Kat. How's it going, bud? Oh, no. No, no, no, no, no, no. Are we watching Scum's Wish?

In third place, we have, in a very surprise comeback, Akka13. I had made a comment to Jay about how no one was voting for this, and then a bunch of people voted for it. Yo, shout out to everyone who voted for it. In second place, and Kat, learn your fucking lesson from this, I will do this again, is Scum's Wish, earning its first legacy point.

You bastard. Holy shit. Holy shit. I hope I scared you. And in first place, and I can't believe it didn't win last week, we will be watching Spirited Away. Woo!

I won again. I won again. This is so weird. It's almost like I nominated like the most popular three safest picks of all time. Well, high school, the dead was a hard win, hard fought win, but yeah. Oh wow. And that he had like 87 legacy points. Yeah.

But yeah, I won with the most popular anime movie of all time, I would say. Right. Or most most notorious, maybe. It's definitely up there. I mean, I guess you can train. Yeah. But like like notorious and like the.

um the broader acclaimed right as well yeah yeah um it's so good for me i can't wait to talk about it i'm excited to watch it for the first time in my life i've never watched it so i think that's gonna be a lot of fun uh but yeah that's what one scum's wish almost won i'm

Kind of tempted to re-up it. Very tempted. Not going to lie, because I love it. I do too. I like Domestic Girlfriend. And I remember I finished reading Domestic Girlfriend and then someone was like, you should try reading Scum's Wish. And I started reading it and I thought it was a little cool, but I was like, why am I reading this? I literally just read Domestic Girlfriend. So, you know, like it was kind of like... Name artist is Oshino. No, I know that Kat hates it and...

Last week, while I was taking care of my wife who was in the emergency room, I was like, Kat, please. Kat was like, I got you, bud. You need anything? Let me know. And I was like, could you not nominate Interspecies reviewers? And Kat was like,

no i i i have to do that i'm so sorry and so i decided i didn't say i'm so sorry i said you're shit on the look i was trying to paint you in a more favorable light i apologize don't do that um so i don't pat could you skip me and we wait until to see what cat does yeah cat why don't you lead us off what are you nominating for two weeks from now then okay so

Here's the thing, Miles. Me and Jay had a conversation and we both said, hey, who's going to re-up this if it doesn't win?

And he said he would do it. So I had to come up with... I thought I was cool with either of us doing it. I thought you said that you were going to do it. I can do it. I don't mind. Yeah, you can do it. Because my show is a show that I've been interested in watching for a while, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. It is... Interspecies Reviewers. No, I've watched it. Oh, okay. My bad.

my show is uh magi adventure of sinbad okay it is the prequel of magi the labyrinth of magic or the prequel excuse me okay this is uh 2016 anime correct okay great and that's one looks kind of right i saw it is one it is 13 episodes check in yeah by studio le douce it does sound like something that's too core

I think it has a sequel. That's why I was thinking it might have been too poor. Yeah, there are two sequel seasons that are both too poor. Oh, apparently I've already watched this. I don't remember watching this show. It'll be fun. Alrighty. Jay, what have you got? Hold on. Miles, check your DMs real quick. Okay. Got some back alley dealings.

Oh man. All right. Uh, Pete, you go first then. What are, what are you now? No, I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. I'm nominating scum's wish. All right. All right. I guess I'm dominating interspecies reviewers. Is that right? You can psych. Nah, I'm a re up. Okay. 13. 13. Alrighty. Uh, miles. Now that we know we're safe, unless I pull the biggest heel turn in the history of heel turns. Uh, what are you nominating? Uh,

Yeah, so I'm about to pull the biggest heel turn in the history of heel turn. I know where you live. I have your address. Coop's not getting Christmas presents. Don't do it. Oh, God. Should I double heel turn?

think about all those nice things I was saying to you today that's so true yeah I made a deal for little to nothing I'm going to nominate interspecies reviewers

My other thought was nominating Uma Musume season 3 just to bomb the whole thing. Yes! You're spitting.

Yeah, fuck it. I'll nominate it. Interspecies reviewers, why not? You have to watch it with camera on. Why not? Because now there's the two people who were nominating it originally now giving it first place votes. So it actually... I see the numbers, Pat. We're okay. You see the numbers, Pat. We're okay. I see the numbers, too. You're right. You're right. I do see the numbers. There was that one week, though. Not even God himself could make this show win. I hope not. Challenge accepted. Yeah.

all righty gosh what do i now nominate scum swish to give us a chance or i know it's already been nominated it's already been nominated my brain farted you're right i um jay has already turned on me you don't need to all right i'm gonna nominate scum swish again so it has twice as many chances yeah no um what other ghibli could i nominate that would win god fireflies

We are not doing Grave of the Fireflies. I watched it once. Let's do it. Let's do it. Oh, I wanted to do it. Hell no. That movie's so sad. Yeah, so what? That's sad. I like being sad. So is Violet Evergarden. This is worse because it's based off of a true event. The Bochy movie. Is there actually anything original about it? No, it's a compilation. You can just do Bochy, though. Well, we did Bochy, did we not? No, we did not.

I'm so dumb. Let's all get super high and watch Bochy the Rock. Let's do it. I don't partake, but I might for Bochy or Rebossed.

Yeah, well, I know. I might... Look, there might be egg on my face. Oh, Pat, you got 45 seconds. Yeah, I want to know what happens in Twilight, so let's do the next movie in Twilight, I guess. We'll nominate that. No. Vetoed. Yeah, vetoed? Aw, well, damn. Everyone keeps vetoing my wonderful ideas. Princess Principal. Let's do the movies, finally. I really would enjoy it. I still...

I expect good things. I expect good things. And you know what? I'm hoping... If the dolls were steampunk dolls instead of gothic lolita dolls, would that have helped?

Not particularly. Well, you know, I'm just thinking this. I don't like Bioshock. I thought Princess Principle was cool because it was just like, what the hell, man? I don't even remember what happened. That was like five years ago. Or like third show. It was our second. I am not going to watch any of the previous stuff if this wins. I am just going in raw. Sure. I think that would be fun and would probably be... I agree. I agree. I'd have more fun doing that than...

watching through what to see the first season what no it's just one season it's it's not too bad the first season really and i don't remember anything about same writer as witch for mercury and therefore the other shows that they did um which are like more famous like yeah please but keep selling it for me thank you uh so yeah those are shows that we're nominating i think that that wraps up watch club this week bit chaotic episode but pete right you'd already nominated i dominated okay

oh yeah we're a huge mess this week what's wrong with us oh my goodness like all right i'm the new moderator i'm taking over if you have made this far and you want to support us the best way to do so like comment subscribe leave a review on whatever platform you are watching or listening to us on next week i got a special episode for you aka i don't know what i'm doing yet but there will be an episode next monday uh otherwise if you are here for watch club in two weeks we will see you for our second ghibli i believe and we will be watching spirited away thanks and we'll see you next time peace

Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.