140: Revenge Bytes
01:26:12 Share

Okay, right off the bat, I want to give a content warning. We're going to get into some sexually explicit stuff in this episode, are going to talk about naughty and there's gonna some swearing. So this episode is from mature listeners, you've been warned.

Oh, and by the way, I give these warnings because a lot of you tell me, you listen with your little kids, which I think is amazing. Hi kids, but sorry, kids. okay.

So have you ever had your new photos licked online? Ah, you probably have. You just might not know IT because some insane stuff is going on out there.

Let me explain first, law enforcement has access to some pretty crazy tools, databases that scraped the internet and then store a whole bunch of information on a person. I guess it's used to help conduct investigation so they can quickly and easily get a whole bunch of information on a person. They can get your marital status, are your address, your job, salary, kind of car flight records, social media accounts and of course, photos of you.

Well, some cops have been caught abuse. One cup was caught looking for dates on tender, which is fine. Cops can look for dates on tender.

But the thing that he was doing was he was looking up his matches in this police database. Another cup was using the database to stock some woman he was into. And another cup, brian, he tried to see if he could use the tool to find nude photos of women on IT.

He used his access to gain a bunch of information on women. And then he worked with a hacker to break into the women's accounts and find nude photos of them. Yeah, a cup was abusing his power to steal nude photos of women, and then was trying to extort them with the images he found.

He went to prison for that. But that story doesn't matter if a updated the idea that a hacer can break in the your account and steal private photos of your phone is a big problem. I've read countless stories of guys planting cameras and places they shall not be, like women's bathrooms or changing rooms.

And when camera is getting smaller and harder to notice this problem. But actually a lot of you just put surveilLance cameras right up in your homes yourself. A D T, for example, is a security company that allows you to put cameras inside your home to keep watch over your safety.

But guess what? There was an A D T employee who was caught abusing his access. I was spying on women and people having sex in their homes, taking screen shots of them and stuff.

Well, and let's not forget about love int. This is a term used for when intelligence officials use their spying power despite on love interests. There's been some reported cases that people in the N.

S. A used their access to the national surveilLance infrastructure to check if a spouse is cheating or to keep a closer eye on someone that interested in. So this is case after case of how your nude photos could be leaked without you doing anything wrong.

Just think about all this next time you see a camera, which you probably see a camera like a million times a day with all all are connected and smart devices. We are not the only ones who can control them. And the people who do have access to your camera can and will abuse that access, or maybe the camera is just insecure.

And someone else who shouldn't have access to IT will get in cameras are now we put in our lives. And I just want you to be aware that you shouldn't trust IT to keep your private life private. I mean, just think about all the places your naked in front of a camera.

Everyone takes their phone, the bat. Now don't. These are true stories from the dark side of the internet. I'm jack ryder. This is dark net diaries.

This episode is sponsored by delete me. I hope dark and aris has taught you something about how people can use your data against you. But what do you do once your data is out there? Because IT feels impossible to try to take IT off the internet, how are you meant to fight these massive data kers who are selling your info? Well, you could try out the service called delete me.

Delete me does all the hard work of constantly monitoring and removing the personal information you don't want on the internet. Data brokers hate delete me because your personal profile is no longer there, is to sell, and then delete me will tell you what they found and where they found IT and what they manage to remove. I tried IT, and they immediately got busy scaring the internet for my name and gave me reports on what they found on me. And then they got busy deleting things for me.

It's great to have someone on my team when IT comes to my privacy, take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for delete me now at a special discount for dark night diaries, listeners today get twenty percent off you delete me plan when you go to join delete me dot com flash dark net dies and use promo code D D check out the only way to get twenty percent off is to go to join delete me dot com size darknight diaries and enter code dd at checkout that's join delete me dot com sah darner dies code dd twenty. This episode is sponsored by a threat locker ransome, where supply chain attack and zero day exploited can strike without warning, leaving your businesses sensitive data and digital assets vulnerable. And imagine a world where your cyber security strategy could prevent these threats that the power of threat locker, zero trust and point protection platform, robust cyber security is a non negotiable to safeguard organizations from cyber attacks.

Threat locker implements a proactive, denied by default approach to cyber security, blocking every action process and user, unless specifically authorized by your team. This least privilege strategy mitigates the exploitative of trusted applications and ensures twenty four, seven, three, sixty five protection of your organization. The core of the tacker is its protect sweet, including application allow, listing, refenced and network control, additional tools like the threat locker, detect E D R, storage control, elevation control and configuration manager enhancer, cyber security post, and streamline internal IT and security Operations.

To learn more about how threat locker can help mitigate unknown threats in your digital environment and allowing your organization with respect and complained frameworks, visit threat locker dot com. That's threat locker dot com. Okay, so let's let's just get to know you to get started with what what's your name and what was your life like before all this started?

My name is medicine. And gosh, that's h. The first question you asked me is already very hard because I I don't remember what my life I was like before this problem.

Medicine, i'm here to help. So medicine cropp in florida. And after high school went to attend a .

college in fda, I was studying marketing and communications.

Medicine has a twin sister .

named Christine. yes. So my twin sister, I actually went to school at the same college crime.

was working on becoming a lawyer and while there at school, Christine.

a guy, I and I was in a orty and we were paired up to do homecoming together he was the president of his pretend y at the time um and I was nominated for the homecoming queen for my and they know what were .

you working on in school i'm .

an airline pilot so that's what I was working on a we are learned to fly in college and aviation major denner was pretty .

active in his maternity at the time, hang out with the boys, binding with them, developing lifelong relationships with some of them. But he fancy Christine the most. So dinner and Christine started dating.

And college sh'd even come by and hang out with a ferny boys. Sometimes too. He got to know some of them fairly well. And of course, dinner will get to know Christine twin sister medicine over time, too.

I know you've seen american actually, you know, but that was their idols when they were growing up. And they have, you know, we can solve to any crime by dinner time that's what the way these two event since they were you know five years old.

I was about nineteen, nineteen or twenty and I had broken up and I remember having like, an acquittal from high school, had the aman was like, hey, you know, someone's like harassment you on the internet and they're like posting photos of you and stuff, right? And I was just like, what IT no, like, send me lanes. Like, what's going on?

Sexually explicit pictures of medicine were posted on internet publicly for anyone to see .

in the photographs. Like, I would, I was covered. But like, I like icon net clubs to these photos .

were part of a photo shoot he did with a photographer. And florida, they weren't supposed to show any nudity. But as he was moving around the photo shoot, yeah, her nip became partially visible for a few photos.

But these photos should have only been seen between her and her photographer. Nobody should have seen this nip slip. How did this happen?

I still, to this day, don't know exactly where people got those from.

Where is IT posted.

So there was four chain, which is the big one that i'm sure you're aware of. 嗯， 哼， there was at one point I think was like mode up com and four archive which is like a four and archive said um there's motherless doc com is there's a few more but fortune in the fortune archiver like the top big ones that are like the bad news bears kind of websites that people go on. Okay, not only where her .

photos put up there, but the person who posted IT was saying things like help me find more new photos of her and posted her name and information along with the photos.

I think IT was my phone name, my snatcht, my facebook and my phone number.

Can you imagine waking up to help them to post on different websites with your partially nude photos up there with someone calling for people to target you and hurt you and get more nude photos of you? Sounds awful.

I think my immediate reaction was just kind of like in shock and not knowing who was trying to hurt me. I think that was like the scarious part is that this was someone that may or may not have known me, but they are trying to hurt me and not knowing who IT was. So it's very scary. And the way ford .

chain works is everyone on there is anonymous. There's not many notes that you can take to try to figure who this might be. It's an anonymous user. And now, since the post had her social media profile listed, SHE was getting some weird messages and text .

that was horrible because literally my phone was like blowing up non stop at a certain times. And of course, as you know, never you know, knew on a tuesday, it's like three, four. I am on a monday, many of the work the next day, you know, so IT was IT was pretty bad. And just even like little things like I this sound so stupid.

But like in order to turn my phone off, if I had to, like no ARM club, when like our phones are alarm for ox, like I and I have to turn my phone off and then I would like sleep in and like be late to workers because I just wanted some sort of sleep um to be able to you know have a Normal day the next day. I think the phone was the worst part at that point. People would really job to me. So in the beginning I would be like, oh, who is this like kind of tried to get IT out of them um who I was and at that point, I don't think I knew that I was like multiple people you know um so IT IT just took a really long time but even just draft like the whole and game like what people are trying to do and how they're doing that and I obviously didn't get me very far SHE .

was saving all the messages though and phone numbers and user names. I were messaging her in case any of this made sense later. And IT wasn't just one time.

Whoever had posted this was posting IT relentlessly over and over and over again, week after week, continuing this campaign against her. SHE didn't like this. SHE didn't like having her moods posted.

SHE didn't like the harassment. SHE wanted these messages to stop. But how do you get to stop? I mean, I think because it's such an embarrassing situation, it's hard to ask for help from anyone.

I mean, what you're gonna to ask your dad to help you track down who stop photos of your partially exposed nipples? No, god. He had a boyfriend though, and asked him for help. So he is started looking into IT. And because he was so close to her twin sister, Christine, SHE eventually went to Christine in a panic okay.

let's just take A B this office sal out you know you're Young. It's it's not a big deal so then I kept getting worse and worse and worse. Um so we ended up trying to report IT to the police and so I was kind of involved just helping my twin sister you interact with the police station um know researching at this point i'm in law school or about to go to law school. So um not that I was a professional this point but um I was equipped a little bit to do some research to contact some people that initially how i've first got involved is truly just trying to help her deal this terrible thing that was happening.

They had to sit down and learn how these websites Operate and it's such a mess for these sisters to even beyond fortune studying this, because that places is absolutely awful. The amount of goal and pornography that they must have seen probably scarred their eyes for life. It's an ugly place at the underbelly of the internet.

And they were there trying to find the moderators, wondering why posts disappeared after, well, like, where do they go? Can you message other users here? Can you ask the site to take down posts? What is this weird language? People are using sauce, winds, sage.

What other sites are scraping this site listening, watching, arriving? And how do you those sides to take down photos? And are there any legal implications to any of this? So while Christine was study, that man is boyfriend, took a trip down the south to the florida keys.

Now one thing the florida are known for, our beautiful sunsets and medicine, was on the beach there watching a beautiful sunset. And SHE took her phone out and snapped a photo of IT. SHE posted IT on snapped chat and almost immediately got a text message to her phone from a stranger.

I got a message saying, h, that's a beautiful sunset that you just saw. I hope you're having fun in the keys with jeff, my boyfriend at the time.

If her alone, don't bother people like this, let people just enjoy their vacation without creeping all over them. This freaked out medicine. SHE was rattled by this.

Who's watching her? Snapchat that carefully? Wait a second. That's a great question. Who's watching her?

Snapchat has, you know, you can see who views the images, you know. So I immediately went to my snapp and screen shot, the people that had seen the photograph. So I was like, that has to be like one of those at that point. I think thirty five people had seen at us IT wasn't a lot of people but IT wasn't like one person, you know so I immediately went like screen shot at really quig um and just kind of captive in .

my back pocket okay good clue to grab because this really narrow down. This harassment was going on so long that he had locked down her socials to be private only the people SHE knew were allowed to see the photos that he was posting so her harasser might be someone SHE knew like .

those thirty five people were my suspects at that point. And this was probably two years into the harassment. IT was a while. Yeah.

two years. Oh my god, we haven't got started yet. Now, already two years.

This is so awful. Yeah.

two years of harassment. I thought this was like months into IT now. Now being harassed so bad for so long, where's a person out? It's heavy work to sort through force and or try to connect these dots.

Not something you want to be doing in while on vacation. You want to get away from that shed, not scooped up. And so SHE sent this information to her sister and really tried not to let her bother her, but harassing posts and text messages just kept coming in more and more. Whoever this was continued posting to all these websites, the same nip slip photos and her contact details and people were calling her and messaging .

her and stuff yes. And then at some point he kind of up the N T. And was giving out my address to my home. My parents social media handles, my sister social media handles um and like extra information um that was probably actually around the same time but the key situation happened um probably like that same week or two he had put together a collage of like photos and information that was like some new photos of me, some like facebook linked profile pictures of me, my family, all the information below my a picture of me and my family um my home address and different information so around that time, I think he was definitely kind of using his anti and was probably getting bored with like what he would have been doing prior to that.

So having my personal address out there was definitely very scary knowing how many you know people go on those websites to try to harassed and hurt and accent women and children. That kind of wasn't added scare factor. You know.

to subset her obviously deeply its stabilization. How can you focus on work when text are common in all the time? How can you relax at home when your phones ring in all the time? He was asked on a boyfriend for help, and he was looking into IT, and he was actually getting pretty deep under the investigation himself.

So I think at some point, and we really don't know, like I never got the full grasp at like what he was doing. But at some point i'm going allegedly going and trying to help on the I T aspect of IT hunt down I P addresses or what now I think he's somehow got caught up in like the middle of leg communicating with the perpetrator and bag and then was going back and fourth with them through emails, which I do know for a fact, they were email ing back and forth.

I think that at some point he, when him and I were you, breaking up for multiple reasons, not just, you know, the situation, I think that he might have just been like, screw, i'm just gonna send him some additional photos of medicine. And he also sent a couple photos of my sister from a, uh, photo shoot as well. So during that time he had made the situation like added field to the fire essentially, and made the situation of thousand times worse.

Hello, so her boyfriend found a guy doing this and gave him more photos. What's okay? Yeah so how well I mean, we were talking about nip lips before. What are we talking about now?

I was very graph stuff like there were hamon. I were in a long distance relationship so he had an arsenal of stuff um from like video chat with him and I um just very explore. For vagina, for body, everything, videos and photographs. So wasn't even just photographs.

not good. This was the stuff that was now getting posted at over and over again, non stop. And he knew her boyfriend will.

Now x boyfriend must have been the one that was leaking this since he was the only one with these images and videos. And things were rocky between them. They were actually bad.

So it's a possibility that he did this, maybe to hurt her something. But when her sister's nude photos were in there, too, what is going on there? How did he that cristine what did what photo did you did he post of you?

IT was one farrow um that was I didn't even know they said um IT was unemployed like good war photo shoot OK kay, so there was a couple of nude .

photos of Christine and these photos are gonna take a moment to explain, but I think it's worth to stay with so implied bug war photos have no knowledge. Everything is covered up. That's the implied part. It's teezle, it's avocational but there are no private parts exposed and Christine has the photos from that shoot and there simply weren't any new photos in there on top of that. He never shared any of the photos from this bug war photos shoot publicly, never posted any of its the social media, but there were new photos of her from that exact photo shoot up on internet. How did that happen by this time Christine had married dinner?

You know, I I was loosely aware what was going on with medicine. Just know they kind of were handling IT amongst them themselves for the most part. I mean, this this kind of situation is like the less people that know about of the Better, because you can trust anybody when IT comes to this type of thing.

You so I sort to let them do their thing. And then, you know, obviously, when you get win, that your wife's new photos are online icon a that's when I really grab b my attention. And when I really started diving into this IT almost felt wrong for me to diving into you to begin because next photo my, I know, I know, you know that these websites are horrible, awful places.

You feel dirty just looking at IT. But once Christine, uh, was up on the internet and we knew that was happening, I decided this needed to stop. And I was going to put whatever whatever skills I had in this world to try and make that happen.

Okay, a new ally joins the fight dinner, the pilot first he's like, wait a minute, where are these photos come from? How could he have gotten .

so these shoes that the photograph might take, uh, two thousand pictures in the in the span of an hour and if you if you below those all into an image viewer and just space bar through them, it's basically like you're watching A A A low frame rate video because he's just snapped in photos constantly multiple per second. So it's almost like a video when you peace some together. And so the girls, when they would change positions, you know, if they're hiding their rest with their arms, whatever they're doing, you know, as far as doing this kind of boot or implied nude photos, at some point they're going to change position or return to a certain angle or something and there's gonna a nipple or something.

And what the boyfriend did, ah we call those nip slips.

So what the boyfriend did was go through twelve hundred photos on A C D of my wife and pull out the two frames where there was a nip at IT found IT saved IT senate to the guy man.

that's a lot of work to go through hundreds of photos to find the one or two with a nip slip. But still these photos, they were on A C, D in a box in her parents house mixed with the other photos of medicine. Christine didn't even know these nip slips were in there.

So how did he get those photos? Well, as you may know, photos on A C, D, A kind of clunky to deal with. Our laptops and phones don't have a place to insert the city. So while back medicine, just like went through their box and grabbed a bunch of cds and copy them on to drop box to make IT easier to access or medicines, boyfriend somehow gained access to her drop box.

And he looked through these photos of her sister Christine, which is where he found his nip slips and then sent them to this guy, the, her, or what a big problem that they have to deal with now. And I want you to understand Christine, nude photos being on the internet like this is the least likely thing to ever happen. SHE doesn't have nude photos.

The fact that a couple were accidentally taken, that he had no idea even existed, and we're in a box in her parents house offline, even somehow made their way until a revenge porn sites is so unfair. Some people like to victim shame in this situation. Uh, your dirty girl, that's what you get for taking new photos.

Fuck right off with that attitude. Christine is a good lady. And if this kind of stuff can happen to people who have done everything right, then clearly this is not the victim's fault.

We should be helping her and other people in this situation, not blaming them. I'll even take this is a step further. At least once a month, some dude emails me, telling me that they're in a similar situation where they met some lady online.

Things got hot and heavy. He sent a dick pic, but he turned out to be a guy and just wanted something to use to extort him. And I always asking me, what do I do? What you want me to pay five hundred dollars, although, send my new photo to my boss.

And you know what? I sympathize with him too, because the person holding his dick pic for ransom is breaking the law. They are scaring him, extorting him, harassing him.

And I don't like that. I don't like harassers getting away with their bullshit. No matter who the victim is, the victim is irrelevant.

It's the criminal whose should be blamed and punish for this. Sorry, I kind of lost the plant there. This topic of online harassment is a sensitive one for me.

I feel like it's got a way out of hand. And every day I go online and I just see this kind of stuff, and it's like a kick to my heart every time. Stop harassing people.

okay? We've got Better things to do with our time. If you're a harassed, just stop.

I don't care why you think your actions are justified. Just stop. Find a way to make a positive impact on someone's life, not a negative one. Let you go. Let's work on making the world a Better place.

not a worst place. So we were hiding IT from our parents and not that our parents aren't lake. They went in their supportive parents. It's not like we're from like a strict you know catholic family that's going to shana and send us away to boarding school, you know but I was still just that embarrassment factor of like where we'd like to think we're you know educated smart women and we somehow got ourselves in this situation yeah and I can't imagine .

wanting show my dad this is what's going on out there like IT would just be the most awful experience .

that like no matter how cool your parents are at just not the conversation you want .

to have with them so how did they become aware?

So I mean, they kind of became aware when they were getting unsolicited images of myself um I don't think ever my sister, but definitely of me but they were in the same situations like a like what is delete this? Like not knowing in the seriousness of IT because we didn't tell them the seriousness of IT. Um so like my dad, a guy, I just deleted the couple of things these semi because I was like awkward, you know so he kind didn't even tell us in the beginning.

Man, to be apparent and see someone send you a nude photo of your daughter but then for medicine to find out later that our parents already sad but we're to embarrass to say anything about IT. It's such a messy situation to figure out for everyone. okay. So medicine, Christine, have this stemming pila able shit they're .

dealing with now yeah, I was and I was just because I don't think the I like I like I I loud to say that I .

was stocked up yeah, i'm .

talk more.

I think this one is rated to begin with from the get goal.

yes. So um at that point, Christ dinner and I were getting very good at creeping the dark web and finding information on ourselves to do take dance um and just kind of clean stuff up. So we had successfully figured out how to take down images from these websites. Um so we were doing that pretty quickly.

Um what's the what's the language used to tell them? Hey, I want this removed.

Uh, D M. C. S. Are the language .

is interesting, right? Most nudes that get leaked like this are self fees. And the thing is as if you talks the photo, you automatically have the copyright to that photo.

You don't have to go register IT with the copyright office anything. It's automatically your copyright at work. So if someone uses a photo you took without your permission, that's a copyright violation.

So tap on the sign, point to the law, say, hey, it's illegal to post this without my permission. Take IT down. And a lot of sites do.

Of course, IT really helped that Christine was studying law and knew this stuff, and he wanted to be extra careful here and make sure both her feet were firmly planted in the law. And IT was on her side. So he asked a photographer who took her photo, can we transfer the copyright to me? And he did.

He went through the U. S. Copyright office to get the copyright of her nip slips transfer to her so he could have more power getting this removed.

Like during this time, I had like multiple employers because IT literally has spent over look at eight or nine year period. At this point managers had been called in her asked on my behalf so they had seen linton or facebook where I worked and they would like call in, like harassed and asked her like my crime boss at the time. Um and kind of you like, do you know what on the internet of her? And I just like the typical harassment, but doing IT to my bosses at the time that I don't .

know it's it's just awful. And like every quarter because there's like no there's no escaping IT, right? No matter where you end up going, you go on vacation, your arrest on vacation, go to work, your arrest at work at home, your arrest at home.

We eventually had got ten and told my parents, because president, I had like a mental breakdown one day and just started bowling, crying and talking to our parents about IT what what .

trigger to break done, just because I was an on stop, right? Yeah.

I think I just think nonstop. And we were trying our hard test, and we were, you know, emotions were high, stress was high.

And when you went to tell your parents, do you did you feel like you're telling them um like you didn't .

know they knew no and I they knew to an extent but they had no idea like how bad I had been because like they only saw what they had got and you know so they didn't know how bad IT actually was yeah .

cause that I mean, I just imagine the oh my god, this is what's been going on and they're like, yeah, we've been getting messages we didn't feel comfortable enough to talk to about IT yeah and that's for how that conversation went oh my .

god yeah and you that that just feels IT right because .

you're already had a breakdown and then you like what .

you've you've seen IT too.

They know you're like you just even it's worse. It's not Better .

yeah and not go now because .

Christine is a lawyer. Of course, he wanted to use the legal system to sort this out.

I hope. Well, my sister and into the sharif department in modern florida and was turned away. I think this is also around the same time that the florida is a non consensual pornography ws and acted.

So it's not only you harassing stocking a federal crime, it's at this point actually illegal in the state fraud a this exact thing. And if you read the statue IT in lamon's terms, IT is absolutely for this exact situation. And so he gets turned away and i'm like, oh, that's full shed so i'm in a compile you information for them i'm going to print to start you out for for you.

I don't live near her at this point, but I try to go in there with her when i'm in town one day but I want to say was like a weekend there, a holiday and that division just wasn't open. So I like i'm going to leave this binder with you. You're going to go in there and get someone to listen to you um ultimately SHE ent in there and they did not listen to her and I remember sending them an email after the fact and and being like, hey, I would be glad to come bring you to bring a training to your officers on this new law.

Clearly they don't understand the law. Please provide training and know a newly sworn and lawyer that would be happy to help you in train or officers with this new law. They did not like that email and no, assured me that their officers were trained in doing their job.

frustrating. I mean, when he said manson was turned away, the police and even take her name or any information about the crimes reporting, IT sounded like the absolutely did not care for her at all. But these sisters were tough and smart who weren't gona accept no foreign answer.

We're onna. Take a quick break here, but stay with us because we come back. They started taking matters into their own hands.

This episode is sponsored by mint mobile with big wireless providers. Your mission is to kit in and get out before you've signed up for a super expensive contract. You've got a dodge questions like do you want streaming included? Do you want more data than you need? No, just want the less expensive.

Wired mobile. Be simpler. All mobile are interested in is getting you great and huge savings with no hidden fees for fifteen dollars a month.

When you purchase a three month plan, how do they do IT? Well, IT thinks to means no store, no sales people, no nonsense approach, which guarantee es you huge savings on the nation's largest g network. I ve been using met mobile for over a year now, and it's been great.

I get great coverage and the pricing is nice and simple. A few times i've been to a customer support, and I was very pleased at how easy IT was to work with them. They were nice and fixed my problems without any issues. To get this new customer offer and your new three month premium wireless plan for just fifty books a month, go to mint mobile dot com sih dark net.

That's mint mobile dot com sash dark net cut your wireless built a fifteen box amount at mint mobile dot com sash dark net forty five dollar up front payment required, which is equivalent to fifteen dollars a month new customers on first three month plan only speed slower above forty giga bites on unlimited plan additional taxi fees and restrictions apply. See mid mobile for details. The two sisters, medicine and Christine had been getting harassed by someone or a group of people for years, and I just kept getting worse and escalating at the point that they were experiencing mental breakdowns.

And we're having a really hard time functioning. This harassment was seeing into every aspect of their lives, and IT was none stop. They were capturing everything they couldn't document at all, looking for clues as to who would be doing this. But they weren't making any progress to solving this. But they were very tuned into this activity.

watching IT closely. What he's posting is how you again, it's so hard to explain this. And we we were so involved in in the ford and world for so long IT IT sounds crazy to Normal people who probably most I wouldn't know about this is Better for this. So um unfortunates anonymous um but then a lot of times they would take their conversations offline to kick K I K is the platform messaging system again, an anonymous messaging to semina man spinning this to someone who does this for a living. I stop right?

Okay, so kick I do want out a few things about this. I did a whole episode about kick. That's episode y three. And what I learned from doing that episode is kick is a magnet for awful behavior. It's just a ChatApp like discord ter slack.

But what i've seen is that there's just no content moderation, so chat rooms can become full of illegal activity open to the public for anyone to find and join in. Why this APP isn't banned from the google or apple store still is a mystery to me, but it's very clear that kick has a lot of problems and is basically a skirt of humanity. So when this person was posting nude photos of cristine and medical and four, and he was sometimes including his kick username, you know, in case someone went to random.

So, you know, we are trying to tie those screening s that he's leaving. So the screams that are attached to what he's posting on fortune are seeing what those people are posting. We're saying, hey, kick me out.

Insert kick name here, finding the ones that are connected to those specific kick names because, again, IT has to all be the same person. This particular person had a very weird way of typing, in which there were three periods and all spaced out. Not, not like a typical dot.

A dot IT was like, dot space, space. Dot space, space. Just and just very odd, like that's not how people typically talk even on the internet, especially on the internet.

So we're using all these little clues to kind of figure out as a whole, zoom out. What is this person interested in? What are they posting?

Well, this is a nice little past to investigate, right? You've got a kick user name now. Well, going on kick, you can't really see what he's up to there.

But they were pretty family with searching four chain. So they looked through fortune for that kick username and this opened them up to a huge trove of post that he had been making. The four che, of course, they had to drive through this film to make sense of IT. But what they discovered was that he wasn't harassing just the twins. He was posting news of other women too.

We find its, you know, the same five women and girls up because some of them are .

under age at the time. Interesting, he seem to be obsessively posting news of the same five women. He didn't have a wide array of news that he was posting. He was focused about IT zoom in to only five women, harassing each of them almost in a cycle, going through each of them, and then back around to the first, making each of their lives.

How this is interesting, because what's the correlation here, right? Are these five women connected in any way to start with? The sisters didn't know any of these other victims, but this started a whole new investigation in the each of these women that actually helped that he was posting their phone numbers and socials.

Some were in florida, near Christine and medicine actually. But somewhere in new york they have some ideas who might know all these people, but they weren't sure. I mean, IT seemed like someone they should know personally, but all the people who they suspected there is no way could be them. But still, the data they got from this kick user was massive to their investigation.

So IT was just a huge break and IT so IT was me, Christine, my sister gina and then my friend john, all four of us. We're working on this at this time. So once that kind of happened and we got the kick usernames kind of sorted and figured out like that, we could, like cross references, said I was like, oh my gosh, back to the snapp chat form.

You at this point, I think that was probably four, five years primarily. IT was a long time ago. And I went back to IT and the I when I took the snap of that, which was right after I got the message of of what a beautiful sunset IT was the last person that had dead, my snap.

And I didn't even think that like, oh, I was so quick at snapping at the second that he message me that IT IT makes sense, that IT was the last person that saw that, because he went on there, saw the message me, hey, beautiful sunset. I immediately went on, snapped the screen shot of you, saw IT. And that all probably happened within like a minute. So that makes sense that, but this is the person I get, has to be.

what was this first name?

Christopher?

Christopher? They figured that out beyon masked the attacker. IT had to be Christopher. All the science pointed to him now. And the creepy part was they all knew Christopher. I mean, he had been friends with him on snaps chat for years, which is why he could see the photos there. And where do you know Christopher from?

We knew ham from college. He was my brother and all dan's paternity brother at the college that Christine, dana and I went to with dinner.

This is one of your friends.

Yeah, that's that's correct.

Like how how what was your relationship to him back in the maternity?

You know, he he was a close friend. He he he had been to my house that I grew up in in connecting， ate and met my parents. We we went to concerts together I I knew his family I I had forth of july out among island with his with his dad and his brother and you know he wasn't my best friend in the world but certainly he was closer than most um he was he was a good friend of mine and I known him for over a decade when this had all happened I was was that .

wedding it's insane so .

one his other victims so no.

having that history with him and then saying way is IT him how is what is you're like a good feeling on of that?

I remember the night that we figured out that was him very vividly this this one will stick out to me for the rest of my life I was getting home from a trip um you know as an airline pilot and I got a call for medicine. And I don't ever receive phone calls from medicine.

We don't we don't call, we text so if I get a phone call, uh, some thing is wrong and I pick up the phone she's like, I think we might know who IT is and i'm like, really what is like yeah, i'm pretty sure and I was like, well, you know, spit out not only don't make me way he goes yankee, i'm like, come on. No fucking way, right like first of all, one of my close friend second of all, I didn't even think he was, you know, intelligent enough or tex AI enough to even figure out how ford chain work if you knew him well, I mean, I hand to have taken a while to figure IT out. This is we are not dealing with a rocket surgeon here so, uh, I I couldn't I I told her I was like, no way in in mindless jack IT had been years where anybody in the room could have been the guy. And there were accusations strong at just about anybody in our life. You know what I mean is this guy is that guy is, this guy is your best idea.

I remember to me things like just walking around the streets. Like, why is that guy looking at me that way? Is he the guy? Like, you know, all these kind of just weird feelings.

Can you imagine, you know what I mean, if if those are your photos on the internet and every single person in your life as a suspect, it's gotta be horrible, right? So I, I, I, I had heard them postie late that I could be one of my friends several times. And I always said, no, no and I did exactly what I did on that night.

I said there's no freeway. It's not him you know one I don't think he's got an enemy is not that malicious too? I think he's too dumb to even figure all this out, you know so um but I kind of rattle around in my brain and I couldn't sleep that night.

So I got home and uh I started looking up the kick names. You know I started connecting the kick names and that's what you can do. And fortune are you you can do IT even on fortune because he disappears within two hours.

But the force archive sites, you can search them. And that's how we sort of tied him to all these posts, was he had about five or six kick names. And I just searched the nicknames and IT with all all the all these red and women come up, including my wife and her sister.

And then there was one that stuck out that night. That was a girl, a Young girl, up to be thirteen, fourteen years old in a catholic school outfit, uh, that was posted by the same user as the ones who as the user that was harassing my, my wife and my sister in law. And I downloaded the photo. IT was not a new photo. IT was just A A girl is a girl.

And you know, the text text to IT was horrifying something like I want news of this girl, I want to a rape or something and so I download this photo and there's uh there's an embroider red uh crest or logo on her school uniform and um it's kind of pixellated but I do you know I enhanced IT and I sharpened IT I sharpened IT. I finally was able to make out the words on this photo and IT turns out IT was a catholic girl's middle school middle school in daytona um so I said, okay, well, I know he's got family and day, tony. Maybe maybe there's something here, so you jump on facebook and within ten minutes I was able to find the girl's name, uh and her mom and dada's name and they were mutual friends and and identified family members on his facebook page. That was his little cousin and that kind of when IT all, when IT all here like, holy shit, it's him. And then once you had that kep piece of information, you keep going back through the other women that he's posting the four chance site, and you cross reference facebook, mutual front bank mutual front bank mutual front and and there IT was we knew I was that night and I I, I, I, I just I absolutely couldn't fuck and believe IT.

I imagine a long start out the window of like what was, why did I have this person in my life at all?

Oh my god, and the guilt. Can you imagine, I mean, you know, if if the the twins had never met me, they never meet this guy, you know what I mean, imagine, you know, just just the weight of guilt. You know, I, he, I invited him to social functions all the time.

He was a bit of an outcast and in an outsider. And I, I invited in just, you know, because he was a friend of mine and almost like a sympathy invite to stuff. And I was the one who introduced him to to to my wife and my sister in law. And in turn, you know, we try to destroy their lives. There's a lot of guilt.

More about that. Well, they did IT. They figured out who the asho was, and they were all kind of shell sharks by IT.

This guy who was at their wedding 真的 是我。 What a monster. You think you know someone? But then this happens. But Christine, being a lawyer, he wanted more evidence and kept going through the kick posts.

And we ve found this random posts that had nothing to do with any the girls or woman. But but IT was a photo that was what we assumed to be his house. We actually reached out to his the answer at the time and was like, hey, um do you know like, are you so with this person like, is this your health kind of thing and she's like, um yeah that's my house and SHE kind of confirmed for us that was like where he lived with him um so we had that as a clue as well. Okay, all right.

they've really got this guy deal. Now, all of the harassment, all of the news, all of the nightman was stemming from this one person. And yeah, he was able to get others to join in on the harassment.

But if I wasn't for him, nobody else would be harassing these women. And just knowing this is such a relief in away, you're dealing with the darkness and anonymity of the internet and you have no idea how many people are behind your harassment. But now it's clear it's one guy, Christopher, and they know everything about him, but he didn't know they were on to him. And so he kept up his harassment campaign, calling boss, sending nudes to their friends and asking others to join in.

I think like the nature of online like cyber is that like you don't have anywhere to to run to. So like if you're getting like bullied or or like physically harassed, you're like, okay, I can at least run home and like retreat to my room, me and you know be depressing bad but you're constantly being harassed and you can't forget anything at home because it's just none. Stop being harassed.

You know that some women have killed themselves .

over this yes um I one of the victims um SHE actually tried to kill herself as well. So one of the girls um he had a really rough time um and tried committing suicide as well wow that is .

all for and I like this is what I mean feel .

like I I don't want to say like oh I was definitely suicide dal but they were definitely like times when I was like, is this black worth that like and then like, oh no I was just very down and you know IT was IT was just really rough and getting my twin sister involved like there were actual days where I was like like her life would be Better without me and like I could definitely see how it's so easy to get so depressing a situation like this.

So I feel like there's A A meeting now, right? You, medicine and Christine are like, okay, we d know it's going on. We know who IT is. What's the plan going forward? Is this is IT in my picture in IT, right?

No, that's that's exactly correct IT and I IT was a super delicate situation, right because we'd already had very limited to success with law enforcement to care to give a shit about what's happening. Um but we decided as a group um that are only real shot to get some attention here.

IT isn't numbers right? And we know that there's five ish other other women and girls who are being harassed at the same time they must be going through held themselves in order to get any sort of prosecution. He won. Uh, we didn't want him to wipe his hard drives and two, we didn't necessarily want him to stop immediately and go into a hole. So we we had to be of we wanted to be behind the scenes on this um but we had to also ban the other women together without a uh them tipping him off really um so that was our next move. H was to figure out how .

to do that yeah and to tie this back to the post about the back porch. So his current physic again, one of the victims, you know, occasionally he would post weird things like moods of himself, even without a face, just different fetishes or desires and I think in this particular case with the back porch, so his filoni at the time that are shared home, her testimonies kind of important at that instance um of like hey confirm is your back porridge um and so we really wanted to look and but she's his current can we trust this person and you know you try to think of how you would react in a situation but not knowing the person on the other and we don't personally know her.

Don't we didn't know any of these women, so we didn't know how they were going to react to any of this. So we weren't really quite sure when or if we should even loop them in. Um so ultimately, we eventually decided, you know we all need to band together like individually.

They're not they don't care. But if we can band together, show that this is A A bigger issue than just you know one person on getting harassed and this is an issue for our societies a whole, maybe we'll take us seriously. Um so at that point um that kind of we we reach out to them on any social media platform or contact information that we could find and kind of fill them in at that point.

Two of the girls had previously um caught him as well and this was before we had gotten like in communication with the six victims. And so one of the girls was one of his egg friends from college. So SHE obviously like knew where the photos came from SHE like was fairly certain that was and SHE felt close enough to the father his named john SHE felt close enough to reach out to human.

Like, hey, like Chris, like doing some really bad things, like he's posting my pictures, know there are thousands of posts like he needs to stop, like i'm getting the police involved, but like, can you please tell me? And he promised her that he would talk on, would get him in accounting, wouldn't help them like just please, don't we know Price charges? Same thing happened to another victim that was a family friend up there.

SHE actually narrow down that IT was ham. After just how he uses like punctuation, he would use like three dots and a space which I was like, well, you you like thought of that. That's like, actually so good.

And SHE literally narrowed down by that and then called him out on facebook messenger. And they there is an Chris and his dad and brother, both name john, they convinced, turn out to press charges if he promised to stop. And he says, you have to get help.

I've been a family friend for a very long time. I feel for you. I love you and your family.

I need, I want you to get help. At this point you didn't know what the extent of IT was to other people. He thought he was the only one. Um so SHE felt horrible when we got all got a hold of her and was toying her what was going on and and obviously wanted to like being in our our urban help. So we actually had all of the confessions of ham confessing IT and his brother confessing that he is known that he's does this and will get on help and fast and they've never got to help。 You continue to harassed innocent women and children for years and years to comment after that.

So they got all the victims together on the same page six total. And they were all really second tired from being harassed by this guy. And they were shocked to find out Christopher was the one behind IT because they all knew him.

There were a few other women that we didn't a, uh, that we didn't never even reached out to that he was a effort, effort nudes of them too at the same time. Uh, but we didn't even we had enough at that point.

So Christine created quite a compelling solder of evidence for each of the women to take into their own police departments and handed to the police.

I compiled essentially a binder of like facts and circumstantial evidence that connected because, again, we don't have legal evidence at this point. To on this is all kind of circumstantial evidence at this point. When we bloop in the other girls, we did again have screen shots of some confessionals and things like that.

So pretty substantial circumstance standing. Al, evidence, but circumstantial. Ana, less you. No suspense of this pointer, anything like that.

So, uh, gina and notice, and I can you know, this little revenge porn for dum is kind of like knowing our experience going into the share of office, knowing that this is gonna a fight. Let's be armed with a lot. Let's be right.

Let's have the laws printed out in reference in front of us. They have to listen to us, right? So we compiled this little binder. We had background. We had each individual victim and like a snipped of their back story, we had any potential law that I saw that could potentially be violated from each jurisdiction um including federal.

Yeah let's back up. I I want to pose for a second because that's fast thing to me because that's your that's your wheel house. I bet you spend a lot of time doing that. Can you just talk about what you think he was doing that was against the law?

again? I'm a very, very Young attn y at this point like first year right um so you know I think i'm hot ship but I don't really know how much but I did take um you know internet law in social media law and things like that, that interested me in law school um and you have that base new knowledge at least of where to find the the least so I was familiar with the florida statue because again, that was just interested me and I thought I was a move in the right direction.

Okay, so this florist statue and acted in two thousand and fifteen section seven four eight o four nine states that the crime of sexual cyber harassment is committed when a person publishes a sexual explicit image of another person, along with personal identifying information of the detected person to a website without the depicted person's consent for no legitimate purpose and with intent of causing the depicted person substantial emotional distress.

OOM perfect. He definitely violated that one, but he did her research. SHE didn't want to rely on just one statute. Since he was posting news of underrated girls, he was also violating child pornography statutes, since he was calling people's bosses and parents and staff.

Why not throwing stocking too, how there's even an aggravated stocking statute, which is a felly charge, and if he was stocking on minor, that would constitute as aggravated stalking. But Christopher was living in new york state, so maybe all these floor, the laws don't even matter. So Christine studied the laws in new york to figure out which once he violated there, he found statutes like sexual performance by a child, extortion, unlawful surveilLance, dissemination of unlawful le surveilLance imagery and stocking. Okay, so those are the state laws that he thinks he violated. But other of any federal laws that he can point to.

there is no federal law for revenge corn or sexual cyber harassment or anything like that. But there you know our promise against cyber er socking in cyber harassment.

great. Yeah, just keep going. So you bring this whole body of knowledge to them. We slap IT down and say, here's the here's the circumstantial evidence that we have on him.

Here's the laws that we .

think he's breaking and here's the guy, here's the dude that's doing IT. You guys don't even have to go out and find who IT is. We are. Did you just please do something?

yes. Okay.

what they say um so dinner was actually there with me too. No, I marching with my little binder. And um again, I I hope that most people don't ever have to go report a crime like this but when you go obviously don't want to call anyone one. You go into the police station.

you go in with your lawyer, your best lawyer outfit too.

I yeah I was probably honestly coming back from work, so already had my lawyer form of costume on now OK. So you don't .

call them when you go what you do you you .

go into the I mean directly you could call them on emergency line. But you know you go into the police station, there's A A desk um with a police officer.

Hum is either hopefully new or did something really bad to get this position because you're just sitting behind a desk, right? And you know you walk up in there like board, they're just sitting there and you're like, i'd like to report of crime and file a police report and then they depose you. They absolutely deposit will.

What happened? Well, I actually have this whole thing together so you can disagreed IT if you want. In fact, I made a copy here.

Here's a copy flipped through IT. This is isn't a crime. How do they get the photos? You know, you here, all of IT. And i'm like, where are your credentials? Like, can you just hand this off to a detective and let them make the decision on whether this is a crime or not?

Like, not to be rude, but I don't really trust your judgment when you your job is to sit behind the desk, but they only even trust you out on the street with a gun bud. Like, get this to the the real detective, please. So ultimately, we were there for probably over an hour, begging them just to let me fill out a police report, just for the opportunity and privilege to fill out this place, a report .

so mad I gin the. They just say, oh, here's a form filled out and then goodbye and they're they're not gona do anything, but they won't even let you fill the form out.

No, that's what shocks meet you, my god, least give me the form. So ultimately, I demanded that I have the forum so he was just done with talking to me, i'm sure, um and gave me the form to fill out.

Okay, so that was your experience. How did the other women do?

Six of us go into police station scattered all over the country, two in new york, one in central, four to one in dho area, motson in melbourne, and men manky. And two of us came back with police reports to.

Oh, this is so frustrating. Police, hello, police, what are you doing? How are you turning away these women who i've brought you every thread of evidence to make an arrest and point you to the guide that there is, officer, this is an open and shot case, and you're doing nothing.

Come on. I'm so mad right now. I look, I got up and you like a minute, just putting my head ones down and walk IT away for a minute.

I'm song IT made its way to a .

detective and ultimately .

the detective looked at IT and was like, yeah, we're not capable handling this. I'm going to send this to the local F, B, I. office.

So by, uh, mani county sheriff department is the only one out of the six that actually did the right thing and move the files to the proper jerica. If they were anybody else like they might even still just be sitting there as local police reports. What doesn't sane to think about, right?

Yes, yeah, there are so many levels of frustration here .

and shut out to the FBI .

because they are amazing ones. You can actually get that.

yes. So so the FBI like wow this is a lot of work is done here, but this is circumstantial evidence. We're going to get direct evidence so they start uh, opening um some of the you know emails and stuff, right?

no. So okay, that's to you. That's the interesting part of I I thought I mean as a it's a legal nerd, interesting part. I'm sure you all have different parts .

that you find more thousand.

but um that's what so frustrating about the the lack of police intervention and long forced intervention is when you in laender cement you've an inherent authority really with probable cause to pull up pinus.

So let's back up a second they finally get the police to open this police reports. But this whole time they are trying to collect as much evidence as they couldn't. This guy.

Now, one thing the police can do is send a sapien to four channel kick or any of these websites and say, hey, we want the information on this user and those sites have to comply with U. S. Law if they are based in the U.

S. And so they would give the police user data without of us. But if Christine wants information on a user, these sites are not going to give in to her. SHE doesn't have the supine a power that the police have. However, she's got a trick up her sleeve to get that power.

I can file a lawsuit and then open discovery and then have this plan of power to you know get support is from different people or entities um and things like that. So what medicine and I ended up having to deal is file a lot.

This was a civil lawsuit which they actually opened up before they even knew I was Christopher. They were so frustrated that the police weren't helping them and they were like, fine, we'll get the sapna power ourselves. It's gonna take some extra money and time.

They had to do something about this guy. Now here's the problem. They didn't know his name when finding the civil suit, so they just filed against john du.

Basically, they are going to use the cords to be able to issue sep as to identify their harassed. But there's another problem. Soon as the sophana comes through, the site will likely inform Christopher that there is a case against him and help you to see who's filing IT. So the sisters didn't want to put their names as the victims of the case and instead wanted to file IT anonymous ly, which I think should also be fine since there are the victims, courts should protect victims in cases like this right?

The court declined um our request to do that. Um so we had the decision at that time on whether not we wanted to drop IT or refile the complaint with our legal names in there and just knowing that that was gonna be on the google forever if you are google or names and you can go in and look at all the the fun drama of the the case because it's the dockets there. Whether the other victims in the case are protected in the criminal case, you'll notice it's everyone's initials and that's to protect victims of a crime.

That's another whole level of frustration is that they would they denied you to be anonymous uh or initials of the lawsuit because that yeah that opens you up to all kinds of other problems.

correct especially .

when you're the victim I .

got yeah but and again, like through the civil process, you're treated almost like you're a gold digger looking for money or something. Like everyone like opposing counsel, the magistrate, judges, everyone is like acting like this is the most good to killer case and that the IT IT was just very frustrating and IT was just very eye opening on, again, like being a Young lawyer and just seeing IT from the other side on how the system really is not set .

up to help you at all.

By this point, Christopher was well aware what was going on. He knew they all knew I was him. They were talking about IT too, like I think his dad was talking everyone OK, let's all calm down.

I'll talk to Christopher and get going to stop. I'm sorry, but promise after promise was broken, he wasn't stopped, and he kept at IT. He even apologized and add to IT a few times, but then keep doing IT.

He somehow was addicted, harassing these women, even with lawsuits, even with criminal cases open. He just went and stop locally. They were able to get the fbs attention on this.

So, uh, I do want to a stress, uh, that a the minor, the fourteen year old is so incredibly important to the story. I'm not sure, uh, you know, obviously the man to can share with us did did IT you know the right thing by folding IT to the FBI. I don't think anybody would have given a shit if the minor wasn't involved.

Yeah, that part of your sharm, everything.

everything. You obviously all these women went through some portable things. I mean, his his x from college tried to commit suicide multiple times over the step. horrible. Uh, he was photographing his Fiona in their private home and then posting in on internet to get off to IT.

This is awful, right? And what they did to a my wife and my sister in law, who had, who are just out minding their own business and had no nothing to do with this guy is horrible. But I don't think anybody ultimately would have given a shit really, if this girl was not involved.

The posts were am horn. I mean, he was basically trying to hire someone unfortunate red and video at, and then send IT to him. And I think that's what ultimately got the attention to the case. You.

what a mess at every turn. So thank goodness the F. B, I was looking into this. We've got a monster .

on go get on. yes. So they basically had to recreate all of our saints that my sister and I had done. Um so on the civil side, we were sending out opines on our behalf on the civil side.

So that's how we had all of the information to bring to the police stations um so that we obviously gave them that information. But from uh investigative some point they still have to recreate them. Um but had previous aren't t even been done, that was like a good start for them.

Um I they don't you know tell about much. I don't know if they found more in their search, but um they definitely recruit our spines of the different ips and I P addresses. Um and then eventually got to make an .

arrest arrested goodness, I don't think I can handle any more problems. And actually the arrest was not even that big event. His lawyer convinced him to go down and turn themselves in, because this will look Better to the judge.

So he did. He went down to police station himself, turned himself in, and then they just proceed them and let them go back home. But at least the perp is recognized, identified, and court dates were set.

And listening to them talk, I don't think there was a way for him to stop on his own. He was just too far gone into all this. But it's amazing. Are these two sisters? They were relentless about fighting back because Christine was a lawyer, so he knew what avenues to go down and what laws to wield in order to fight this.

The average person is and even going to know that you can open a civil lawsuit to get the courts to issue, as you know, and then to use that information about a criminal case at the same time. And the fact that they didn't want to just have one case open, but they had six different women all trying to get cases open on this guy. It's just brilliant and worked by them. What's that saying? You used to say we'll .

solve any crime by dinner time. Dinner time just happened to be ten years later, so we would have starved .

to ah this took .

over ten years for you. Who in the world has the energy and drive to continue harassing the same women for ten solid years? Apparently this guy, Christopher, did.

So what happens to? Well, he was arrested, right? Clearly, there was a ton of evidence of his crimes, including him admitting to his victims and promising to stop.

So when he goes to court, there is no other option for him to pleaded guilty, which means no trial was needed. Skip all that since he is adding to IT, but is still the court proceeding to figure out his punish ment a sentencing hearing. Clearly, this man has caused great harm to these women, but can the women influence what the judge decides the sense to be? Hey, yeah, they can.

He fucked with the wrong ladies.

Christine wanted all the victims to margin of the courtroom during the sense of hearing and voice themselves to let the judge know how much he hurt them, because it's going to be up to the judge to decide the sense. And this is their only chance to make their voices her before in the court case, when was the last time .

you saw him? Oh god, like my wedding. OK.

yeah.

And so then when you see him in the court, because you walk in there, you see his face. Would you have like .

a feeling um I really don't think I did and if I did, I blocked IT out because I think IT had been so much time that if anything I was just like.

oh, he looks like share no yeah um I think they said just I said I think .

I think my exact words weh they're not starving. He was very greasy .

but I was I was just IT was a weird feeling and it's terrifying in a sense because you're seeing this person in real life, his family is there in real life. Um you know you're going have to go and talk to the judge and give your case in real life, not knowing what the judge might think of the situation or even if he understands the situation and total you know it's a very new crime. So there is not a lot of like examples of these kind of cases to to kind of go forward. Um we I just scary all around your you know have red of other people you don't even know having to listen to your victim impact speech um it's just terrifying is like the only word I can think of was there .

was the was the judge was there any stupid questions the judge asked .

that you remember oh or so the judge was asking so many questions and IT was so scary because they almost sounded like kind of like victim shame kind of at first and I was like, ohh my god I should like is like is he gonna is this is this is is the kind of judge it's gona be like, well now like this is all your fault t like like I literally had IT in my mind and I remember like being like a little defensive at some of his questions because he was like interacting my victim impact statement, which I was very long, but he was interacting as he thought of questions like he's not even letting me finishing.

He's just like blurting out questions as i'm you know, reading this victim impacts eight like IT was so terrifying and then he ended up religious being just so confused uh like the whole situation are like why he's doing this and like he was actually just really upset about everything that he had done. But he he showed IT by asking a lot of questions. And IT was so nervous. King, and it's like in court, the judges like what's in IT sly and exactly what IT sounds like pop out of the shirt or like whatever you're wearing.

Victims gave their impact statement. He was fuck and good. Christopher was realizing SHE is not go and well for him at all.

He's allowed to talk after all of us. And so now we had the whole dramatic him turning to us and apologizing to dana first, by the way. So that was funny.

But now he turns to us in the crowd, and like the united states, to turning every agent come, like, standing and between us. Like, do not come closer. Like, i'm a job quick, you have kind of thing and I am sorry, I am sorry. Like the dramatic effect in all of that.

The judge said the range for sentencing is three to six years. For cases like this, the defense attorney was arguing to, given the lower end of that, the prosecuting attorney arguing.

I think I remember us all talking in the hallway. Me like due, if he gets five years.

we will be over the moon because the victim impact they must took so long, they had to come back a second day just to hear the sentence. So the next day they all come back in the the courtroom, they sit down the Christopher to stand up while the judge reads the sense to him when the judge sentences him to fifteen years in prison.

IT was like, we all just were in there and I literally just like bread heavy, like grabs my fiancee's hand and I was like, oh my gosh.

like we did IT, oh yeah, I was super dramatic.

And did you cry when they announced the the .

the sense I did? Yeah, I think I think we all had our own range of emotions. But I certainly did know there was a lot going on there. You know, this was a person that i've known for almost two decades in cared for at one point. And then I was also a person who inflicted some of the worst emotional harm upon my family they could even imagine.

So, you know, uh, that coupled with how long and hard in the, you know, the nights we stood up till four in the morning trying to compile all these things and and put this case together and to get law enforcement to care for IT all you to see somebody that you once cared about essentially have their lives ended uh in the same moment uh that uh you know A A case um you put so much effort towards to to to get somebody to care to to end that person's live all happening at the same moment was was unbelievable. I did. I I didn't think I I would react that way, but I did. I was, no, I don't think I .

remember you crime. I'm sure you did. I remember modal crying. I member modiin crying during her victim impact statements.

I think I like compartment lies myself to being like lawry modes. I don't think I got emotional at all. I was just kind of like .

I was finally yeah.

I was just staring at any moment he was doing this whole thing. But yeah, I think I definitely remember like feeling excited, like, wow, you know, this judge, listen to us and was in utter shock and disbelief of how bad this was. And I think IT was just that validation even again, like dinner was saying there is so much you sweat and tears. I go into this from all aspects of IT that I was just like, validate more than anything that, well, like if if couldn't in the corrective venture like this, you can make a difference and like take care and like we we make a difference, you know.

Now, even though the sentencing range was three to six years, it's at the discretion of the judge to assign the sense. And he apparently was so moved by the victims that he basically tripled the high end of the range and gave him fifteen years, incredible fifteen years in prison for cyber harassment. Ah it's quite a bit actually in that means that too much will hold on this by ten years.

Harassing medicine, making her life hell. That's a long time for someone to suffer and that's just one person. Well, one in ending, huh the victims one one finally.

But sorry, that's not the end. The defense attorney found a problem in the ruling, some procedural error in the case. I think I had something to do with a sentencing range.

They were saying the initial range was calculated correctly, which may have influenced the judges decision on what to sentence him. This meant the case was reopened, and he meant a new judge had to come in and take a look. This case issue a new sentence.

So just when they thought that they had this wrapped up and the healing process could begin, the sisters and other victims were sucked back into the case. Scabs were ripped off again. The pain and fear was felt. Hall over again.

yes. And so this point um again probably a character flaw but we're just like this is funny at this point at least that's how i'm i'm feeling. I'm like this is terrible but you ve got to laugh right like like what are the are so um yeah we have to go back and to sentencing um and at this point, you know i'm pregnant. So we were hoping IT wasn't in an independent time, but ultimately, we had to go back almost a year later. I believe that you think that sounds right.

And I was a just a touch over a year and and for sure, jack, like you know, Christine is kind of a bad as h but for me personally, I see this happened and i'm like, oh, you've got to be getting me like, this is how he gets off. This is how he gets off. We had the one judge who gave a shit and in the guy who, uh you know a took all these factors in new account and and understood what IT really happened here and nailed him with the sentence that he actually deserves, and now were kicked back to another judge who's maybe not going to quite understand what actually happened here because they're all a million years old. One of you know that the last time they run the internet was a, well, they don't understand what this is.

IT was so frustrating ing all the victims had to .

travel all the way back to court and relive their traumas by reading their victim impact statements. Again, more crime, more emotions. How i'd even say this retrial is revictual zing the victims.

So luckily, the judge disagree with the original judges decision that IT was a horrible crime, that he did not learn his lesson. The only reason he wanted to show remorse was once he got caught, and the judge solved right through aham and gave him the same exact amount of time, fifteen years.

of course, they were on age, waiting for a decision like this to be announced in the court room. So when it's spoken, IT results in another emotional moment for the victims. More crying. Okay, so they want the criminal case against him, I can.

But there was that civil lawsuit they had against him to remember well, when Christopher saw that he was likely going to lose that civil lawsuit, he filed for bankrupcy to avoid having to pay any fines or restitution that would be part of that suit. The sisters won that case, but since he had filed for bankrupcy, they in't get any money, which really wasn't the point. The point of that case was just to give them the ability to gather evidence and to figure out who was behind this.

But still, all this actually came to a big financial cost to the sisters. They were expensive lawyer fees. They had to travel to court to give victim impact statements.

There were costs associated to getting supers and opening a silva suit. And that's just a legal cost. How much time did they spend investigating this? Doesn't that add up to something? And of course, how much pain and suffering was caused? This was traumatic. So they mentioned all this in the criminal case and told the judge during the same thing, like, hey, man, this has been draining to us emotionally, but also our money. So when the judge sends him to fifteen years, he also took all these costs into consideration.

He had the fifteen years. And let me also of my sister and I money for our damages. We're probably never going to see a dime of that in our lives. But he was a nice ad on that like they understood our struggle.

as you know. I think that brings us to the end.

Yeah.

happy ending.

Yeah IT was really emotional and um the last sentence in my victim impact each kind of summarized there and IT was the long wolf dies but the pack survives. And like that quote like just gets me every time because like I don't think I personally could have won or survived without any of the other girls and we're concelled ing gonna have the almost like the sister hood of like a pack of love um and we didn't even know each other, but most of us didn't know each other before this.

A big thank you to medicine, Christine, and dinner for coming on the show in saying this emotional role, cost of story tional when nobody would help them, they became their own advocate and fuck back. I love that and they fuck me too. That's the thing that gives me about this story. They didn't harassed and back, or do any of the things I hate IT to them. Instead, they charged through the legal .

system to get justice. amazing.

I mentioned earlier I did an episode about kick. That's epo de ninety three. If you wants to listen to IT, um if you thought this episode was awful, that one is worse.

So yeah, actually just ode to get. This episode was paid by me, the faded rider jack cider sound designed by the resurrected suspect Andrew mary weather. And this episode was assembled by this slinky drink, trust and leger, mixing by a proximity sound.

And I think music is by the mysterious beach mater cylinder. My new year's resolution is for kate. This is dark net aries.