150: mobman 2
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I remember the first time I posted something online. He was video game guide in the nineties. There's an internet ad that I think is true that goes like this.

The best way to get the right answer on the internet is not to ask a question, but to post the wrong answer. I posted a guide on how to beat a video game, and I immediately got a download. Mark ridiculed, and I was told to get good.

At first, I thought they were joking like a beat this game a hundred times. With this strategy, what are you talking about? Get good.

But then after some push back, they started clean me in, telling me exactly where my advice was wrong and giving me tips on how to properly do those parts of the game. I was blown away what I thought was impossible to do in the game people were actually doing. Now, dear listener, this experience to shape me for who I am today.

If you post something genuinely helpful online and people mark you, that could be the end. If you ever posting anything online again, it's enough ruling yourself confidence and hate everyone on mind. But I had the opposite reaction.

I loved this game and played at thousands of times. They were giving me tips and strategies on how to be way Better than my best strategy that I had. And I genuinely wanted to be way Better.

Not only that, I got to make friends with other people who are really passionate about this game. IT was an amazing experience. Fast forward to today, one hundred and fifty episodes into this podcast.

That's one hundred and thirty four hours of me tapping. I've got a lot of feedback over the years. Most of IT is positive.

But today, today, I ve gotten cracked, something I got wrong, really wrong. These are true stories from the dark side of the internet. I am jack ryder. This is darkness diaries.

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This episode, sponsored by delete me, I hope dark na dies, has taught you something about how people can use your data against you, what you do once your data is out there, because he feels impossible to try to take IT off the internet. How are you meant to fight these massive data brokers were selling your info. Well, you could try out this service called delete me.

Delete me does all the hard work of wiping you and your family's personal information of the web. Data brokers hate delete me because your personal profile is no long where there is to sell. I tried IT, and immediately they have got busy scaring the internet for my name and gave me reports on what they found on me.

They ve got busy deleting things for me. And I was great to have someone on my team when IT comes to my privacy, take control of your data and keep you a private life private by signing up forward. Delete me now at a special discount for doctor tar's listeners today.

Get twenty percent off your delete me plan when you go to join. Delete me 点 com slack dark net diaries and use promotion de DD2ET checked the only way to get twenty percent off is to go to join delete me dot com slash dark net diaries and enter code D D 2a checkout let's join delete me dot com flash darkness dies code D D。 Over the years, one episode i've publish has haunted me. Episode twin called mad men. Take a listen to this short clip of IT.

I made this up seven. It's a remote access to all. And IT was a trojan horse virus.

He built a program that will allow him to take control of another computer.

U. K. Roping closed the city wrong. You could flip the screen. You could hide the start buying.

You could move the mouse on their screen and you pick around. You could open up their sea drive, change their wallpaper. This is an .

episode where I interviews to guide named correct, who went by the name mob men who claimed have made the sub seven now wear back in the nineties. The episode haunts me because I have received numerous comments that listeners don't believe he's the guy who created sub seven princess. There's a red post where someone said I just started listening to my ban this afternoon and couldn't finish IT.

I just don't believe this guy made up seven or could have created a rat at all but not just as attitude to personality IT just seems as if he has a cursy knowledge of any of the technology used multiple times without the end abuse something he said just didn't t make sense or didn't match up with what I remember from that time period then mother comment or said I had the same impression too and someone else said he's fake worker and someone else said, I remember the creator was romanian and that guy is not romanian. I fact checking guests as best I can, but I do most research and writing for the show, and I can only check so much before publishing an episode. I spoke to some people who knew greg personally from tampa, where is from? And they told me his legit.

On top of that, he was featured in a rolling stone magazine article saying he is the one who created sub seven. I figure rolling stone would do some fact checking themselves, right? And also, greg offered to show me the source code for sub seven and any demonstrated how he has control over the sub seven domain name.

So I just show this to people who didn't buy a story. But as I listen to people read more theories about this, I started maybe think, maybe they're right. Maybe I interviewed the wrong person. See, I interviewed guy named greg, who goes by mob man. And on every version of sub seven, IT was created by someone calling themselves my man.

So i'll starting to think way if gregg in IT makes up seven, and are there two mob men out there? If so, where's the second one? Somewhere around two thousand and four, the sub seven creator, more man, disappeared.

And greg, just so happen to get arrested the same time too. And so he says, that's why disappeared. So the two mob man disappeared at the same time. If there are two, then greg is the only one who came back as more man. The other mom man is still out there somewhere.

Well, my guy named ill will took IT upon himself to find the real mom man, and he spent years hunting through the inter net looking for him, and eventually found a clue which made him to a potential email address used by the real mad man. He emailed him, and sure enough, he said, yeah, i'm the one who created sub seven. You found me and I got connected with this, my men, to hear the story. Hello, hello.

hi. Picture on a twelve on the duck.

yeah. Why not now you you call you, you have the the tag here, a mob man here in our call. I do. Is that .

your .

nickname? Yes.

when did you start using I nineteen ninety .

nine and what is .

mean of IT? It's IT comes from a rap band, romanian and a red band 和 B， U, G mafia, a buchers underground mafia. That's their name. I'm a big fan of them and I was thinking, coming up with a new nickname, IT just had a nice ring .

to a mob man, you know, yeah, yeah, this is, it's, it's a trip, you know, to get here. Because for the last six years i've known mob man to be a different guy. And now I feel like i've met a new map, man. So so let let's go back to the nineties. What was your early experience with just cybersecurity?

IT? IT wasn't really a hacking in thing, was more of a program thing. I taught myself the program when I was very little.

I didn't hold until little games. This was back when I was still in romania. So in ninety seven, move to canada with the whole family.

Then I found out about delphi. I want to start learning in delphi. So I just happened to pick a rat to work on.

thanks. Thank you. That was so that's how everything started.

And so the story goes, sub seven was born.

Yeah, well, IT all stand from a net bus, right? The those a IT IT preceded sub seven, like he was one of the original remote. One of the original trogons was going net bus. So I play the around with that a little bit. And that's kind of what inspired the inspired me to create something similar.

So I was loses the .

same thing. A remote access throgton 和 IT had a little U I。 And a server. You would send somebody and then connected them. So that's kind of what I was trying to emulate when I started.

And then after I got a couple of features going, I pack packaged, IT up and uploaded to a hacking sight that started picking up steam. I admire contact details on there, and people started sending emails contacting you. Can you add this? Can you add this? Can you add this? So that kind of, I grew from there I was.

I wonder if I can do this. And then vice, so I would look into IT, do some research, see if I can find that out. And if is possible, I would just do .

if you created this as like a, uh, a coding chAllenge. Did you ever feel bad when people used IT for malicious purposes?

IT was all fun at the beginning, and for the first many versions, he was all just fun, having fun with people, you know, playing tricks on them, pranks and things like that. Was, was the whole motivation behind that anything else? But then started, you know, hearing all these stories about people using IT for malicious purposes.

Always in the back of my mind was sort of like, well, there's many of these stores available. You know, they just have time to pick the one I made. They would have just pick a different month if he wasn't for for some seven. So I mean, it's part of what that why I left, I guess in the end, I wanted to get into something else, some sort of different throughout the whole thing. I always tag as a hacker, you know, as a, but that was just I was just the programmer china program.

The thing is, as this tool began getting popular, IT started to be used more and more in criminal activity. Using IT to take over someone's computer. You can see exactly what they are doing on IT, or you could steal their files or session cookies or wiped their computer and delete everything. The problem is, creators of nowhere have sometimes been arrested just for creating IT, not even doing anything bad with IT, because those creators were knowingly creating tools or weapons for criminals to do crimes with sub seven. Official reason for existence was to bring people IT was for jokes and stuff.

You know, some of the most popular features in at where the ones just for fun, like the matrix one, which is turning your whole screen black and new type letters one by one, you know, is basically a, but you can get out of IT. You can do anything. You would just chat back and forth with the whoever s on the other end.

But as I started being used for more malicious reasons, that's when mob man decided to leave the scene and basically not look back. He went on the programing and leaving the name mob man in the past two.

the very first time I heard about somebody impersonating my name and taking cardiff, all this stuff was was sent from your podcast. I had a local friends season, we call him settle that is a big fan of your podcast, and heard that you had an interview with movement now easily. You knew that was, you know, and was looking forward to listen to IT and listen to IT.

And he's like, what is this shoes? This guy, he send me a message just like you. I is the podcast expecting you.

And this is the other guy talking about some random stuff I knows going on that I found out first. And then couple months later, ill will contacted me. He's the one that started the whole process.

He sent me a little zip file with the couple of details about me at a picture of my car. And he was like, the past for the zip file is your full name. So if it's really you, then you should be able open IT.

It's like nine nine percent sure that it's you that left traced to that. And I replied, I said, well, you're right, you can be a hundred percent sure now. And he was the one that kind of not convinced me because I was a little bit in different, right, like I this was a long time ago. I don't know if I really want to give back into any that, but he made a good point, like a lot of people have made their start with this, you know, and it's now right to have somebody else take the credit. Like history should be set straight.

so let's set the record straight. This is the real mom, t man, the actual creator of sub seven. But even though this real mom man heard my interview with another mom man, he still didn't want to contact me to fix IT.

because the whole thing was, I didn't want to publicly say, why was, you know, I didn't want to a publicly added all the time. Why was that? I don't know.

I don't know. After after a really, really long time, I didn't really make 给你 30度still stay hidden。 But yeah.

I mean, that makes sense of what you were saying a minute ago, which was like that I was Young when I did that. I'm done with that. I don't want to be part of that.

I don't want to revisit. I can see there's a lot of reasons. What I was worried was like, oh, yes, some people did some awful things with that. And the fbr is looking for me.

I think people started getting in trouble for for making tools like that at that point like you said, you know, like just for making them, not for actually using them so that that contributed to like I need to get out here .

yeah and did you get any heat from the enforcement because .

you had your email there .

and I could see if somebody being like, we got ta put them into .

this guy yeah no, no. I never get into any actual trouble or heard of anything, but I kept everything. Private, like everything, nobody knew my name.

Even the people there are closest to me, closest to me in the scene, like about the cruel things like that. Nobody actually knew what they knew. The city I was in, the very first versions, said the city I was in from windsor park.

Ario, okay, this makes sense. This is a tool that, well, yeah, has started a lot of cyber security careers, has also caused a lot of damage. IT was people like Marcus hutchins being arrested like three years after creating some somewhere IT makes sense for the real mob man till let someone else take credit since IT all about him to stay hidden in your life.

He has a bunch of family stuff and just wants at all behind him. But after looking through ill whales research and speaking with this more man for an hour, i'm convinced this is him. Wow, six years after posting the episode, we filly discovered the truth, and now we can lay at all the rest.

But there's still something that's bugging me. Why would greg pose as mab in all these years? We're onna take a quick break, but stay with us because when we come back, i'm calling greg.

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My man. Hey there.

Hi man.

Have you been pretty good, just busy work and sleep and doing kids stuff?

The story of sub seven has been researched more thorough since you have appeared on my podcast, and IT just wasn't add up for some people, and I was put in the contact with the original author of sub seven. Romania fellow a mob ban.

okay. So that I mean.

clearly at this point, i'm believing that he's the one who created IT, right? And so now i'm wondering will hold on, you're the one who said you create a subset and whats going on here?

right. So so where are is to help throw a measurement?

Will and yet we all will.

So they all like made a person to you sexy idea and.

But yeah, he seem to be able to produce some evidence.

right? So I mean, I have a lot of that stuff too. Yes, ever asked. And I showed IT to a couple other people that I know in my inner circles.

So are you, are we talking about the same subset though? Because there's there's this this conflict story is just not gonna for me. I've got ta have like A A wells .

claims on his website .

we could go to and you put in my man IT comes up in there google searches and there's all kinds of claims on that web is like it's reaching for straws every little thing and then after you know ten years, he family gets enough straws to put together a whole big personal or whatever he's doing .

um for the .

super mom man person .

my god dw saying he's a real man, man and guy is a made up.

All right. And what about the gmail account and the domain .

name take ahead? Tell me.

well, does this only person have access to IT writing?

To the g milk cow and domain ing yeah yes.

that's IT into the source code.

You your thing you .

do do k and they you .

can see the registration .

dates aren't in stuff for our alliance es all other times and they remain. Can I changed?

Yeah.

so maybe we get this other dude, they meet together right now.

See if I can. You'd want to talk with them. I will get a well on the cut.

You rather not talk with the will. I mean, I think you know .

and .

and quite honestly, you know I try not even talk .

about this subset .

or even any anything that I done IT as but you know they got all these laws and computer laws and shit nowadays. It's like, you know, I don't want them to go retroactively and find some crap to get me in more in trouble. I would like to be the guy. Yeah, over. And then we could see, we could get to the bottom.

All right, i'll see what I could do. Thanks for this call. I'll keep in touch, everybody.

Two mother here. Now, this is crazy. I needs the answers though. Went back to the other man.

I like, hey, can we do call like with both of you? He's like, yes, let's do IT. So we did the call and i'll just play for you the conversation mostly unedited. Hello.

听我 唱。

L.

so I hate record ready, because this is, this is such an epic call. I've never had two people of the same name on my pocket that there .

is nobody else name. Jack.

I honest, honestly, is also chat with both of yours getting confused and who's who?

When oh.

just because your both name .

ban H I know that sucks because I be like kind of play video games and i'll sign now put my name in there, then i'll see it's taken you like who have made that?

Today you get to make .

the person, yeah, why he plays games.

The one with the romanian accent is the real one. Just to sit that up front.

So did you play video games? I call a do or something.

Okay, so yes.

what are we here for? We are here to discover it's not so much the right people reuse names. There is a lot of jacks in the world. I'm not worried about my name being reused or probably move band has been reused before.

But the but the question at hand here is the creation of sub seven is being claimed by both of you and and the tRicky part here is neither of you you really want to claim IT because it's like, hey and kind of things, I don't really want to put my face on front of that thing because that he has been used for purposes that maybe you want to clam whatever. And so IT is a tRicky subject to try to navigate, but here's the situation where i'm trying to you know explain what this tool is. And i'm getting i'm getting confused on who actually made IT.

A few people made different versions of IT.

No, they did. Not only one person made, all the versions do. Oh, yes, there's going to every single version that was released into the credit screen and under programmer does only one name ever. There's also multiple romanian quotes from biu g mafia is quite obvious that the author is fucking romanian. So why not some great guy from florida that really.

why is IT? Why is there only one programmer of this APP?

Because IT was just me to everything, the whole source I was in possession of at the old.

Why is today you have .

get her .

in IT wasn't the same back in the nineties. But with good hub, people can contribute and help out. Um you didn't want are the people to help out. You don't want to share the source.

Why was that? I learned delphine by working on sub seven is my very first project, is is paatElainen de. That was the main reason I was in chat.

And every single version was dedicated to B, U. G. mafia. How do you explain that, greg?

So I found these these youtube videos and um people made something call sub seven S A T. And then I .

know I think really the .

sub read one a one made something and then and then john john for he he made some too.

At the very end, after I left the scene, there was one version released by read one or one. That's what you bring out.

I don't know.

How do you see the created you answer because there yeah the band, the romanian hip hop band that was mentioned in every single release. It's the band where the nickname me movement comes from. How do you explain that?

Will let me pull up the videos of we used to listen to .

home videos of what in one thousand and ninety nine first version that does mention IT B U G mafia. Didn't you can have any song's online? And I brought tapes with me from romania.

They are only on tape. You could not have heard of them on the internet in nineteen ninety nine when this was put in the about credits. 那会儿 IT just doesn't make sense， man.

And like everything you mention that you made IT for some ultima online things like to steal credit or something. What was the story, jack? Is he? He mentioned there, are you a podcast?

Yeah, they are just to mess with his friends. That sounds like to mean .

he was all an not online thing. Like you would find traces of IT looking up ultima line E X C or I I or something. You could open IT up because like the server opens up files and you can find those file names. If you open the exile in like a text, select so you'd find, like I had a method where you would modify, win that I and I to start up so you could find reference in the E, X, C there. If none of the versions have any sort of reference to any ultimate online things, files or e xc or programme names or like the stuff that you came up with doesn't make any good sense, man, i'm surprised IT IT lasted this long, honestly. And i'm surprised you're able to push .

and the mater pascoe.

the master pascal has my birthday in IT. That's another one. IT has my birthday. Are you born in october fifty, nineteen ninety, eighty?

How do we know that? That's your birthday?

I'll send you a picture of my driver laces.

I want to hold up my driver's license too, because he says the same thing.

I highly doubt that he says, I know. I doubt that you're born on october fifty, nineteen, ninety, eighty. Do you show me a picture? It's in my rest .

record in everything too um but I I I could put the idea up on the that is that what started .

the whole thing the whole still in the identity because the birthday matched well then how .

would I know that that's your birthday?

Because you mentioned its under subzero vickery men, there is a known fact.

right when when when the wikipedia is changed like every other month. Kay and i'm mostly the wine.

so are ready subset website, 各位， there were multiple references to romania and canoa. The city were .

on from for for no, no, I was the .

birthday. Just gone back to the remaining 的 like there's multiple versus in romania in the about screens in a couple of the different versions。

So how like .

what it's obviously a romanian that made IT not some great guy from florida. 不了。

的。

And also, yeah speaking of which, the first five or six versions, the first thing that the about credit said was from winsor, ontario where you ever in winter ontario .

do you you see these credits on the on the software?

Yeah you can get any of the any of the versions, download any of the old versions. There's multiple this two thousand fifteen. You have more every single one.

You can go to the about screen now. And the first five or six, say, from windsor, ontario, dedicated to B. U. G. mafia. And some of them .

have report they are, yes, for for the P. U. G.

Have you ever been to winter ontario?

No, I ve been been to canada. They know how you.

I know they don't, because you have a rest. How do you explain that then in the credits? You can do you can.

You can come up to bush fast enough. I'm missing the euros for this. You know your .

way you waste in euros for this.

I'm missing the euro twenty .

twenty four second .

again will be right.

And so i'm just.

And I did, you know, game.

greg, how did you get into delphi? This is .

learning programing.

right? Like this, one of the languages I was just hanging out. I had a guy instead, just that you could make menu's and stuff like that.

So what does all the delphy programs, what do they start with? What is the functions start and end with? What is a delphy function start and end with? If you're such a good functions.

like function.

what's the first thing you you do after the function? What what is the beginning and the end of the of the block of code? How is that the noted in delphine? No, how do you define the beginning and the end of a function? You know and see you have the court curly brackets.

What do you have in dollar? 那 这 这 是你的 狗 是 吧？ I doubt this guy even touch delphine.

So are you talking about like the sync does not all functions at the end or like to Carry question mark whatever for like hp here, you know when you .

started to .

call IT. So so let's see the fine .

of bride you you .

begin the end, do you? stuff?

That's what I was looking for. A man, the beginning.

the no IT. This sounds sound very, very people.

So you don't even know basic stuff. Man.

I didn't know that you were asking so bad. I was trying to figure out exactly.

You're asking. I doubt even you actually program well.

how about we we program something in lifetime.

We got the hero to get back to. We don't want to spend in our time programing here.

You like the fact, the actual proof of actual proof of something.

So so what, greg, what is your proof that you're the creator of substance?

Like I don't have any proof.

Of course you don't. I have, no, I have multiple backup cds that I burned with multiple stages of the source. I have a hurry that I used to sell back then in the store, I took pictures of IT. I have the source code.

I have multiple proof, but I, you do multiple copies of IT on and back up cds and stuff that basically, I don't, I think no, no longer even work. I don't know, have A C, D drive anymore.

I was able to pull all of.

yeah, I was able to pull them out too, like a ten to go and show the people. Did you show anyone right now? Well, not, not right now, because I want to call right now what you guys and is not come up in person.

Yes, and I post this on my good shows. It's been on my github for several years. Where am I get help at .

this point? You just both shein because there's no dear help, there's no source or if this is definitely not a sub seven source.

Okay.

it's zero, zero proof is old talk. I have multiple things that I put out that I gave them all to elbel and you post them on twitter. There's notes, there's little hand red notes with with ideas. And because I worked on this like four years, I put A A lot hard work into this wasn't just some scripted to fuck in steel alchemical online credit like really good.

So greg, you were telling me that you have control of the domain sub seven crew.

That's the only actual proof came forward and that was never actually owned by the real man. man. Never it's not documented anywhere.

I never owned any domains back then because I was trying to stay anonymous. Everybody else was buying them. So all he did, he bought .

an so credit, also an email account .

as well OK. So .

there's .

no gmail account in the is that I released.

So did would your email come out in like two thousand .

and four something like that.

So sub seven in the nineties would not have gmail, would not was not, didn't exist?

No.

no. So we're talking about later versions at some point.

It's a pretty long time. I'll give you that spot .

a decade now been .

going places and there .

you go silicious.

I feel sorry for you, man, like your biggest accomplishment, that is impersonating somebody else like you. But I .

would think of anything of IT as accomplishments nor even writing a rat fact, right? Like I don't even tell pretty much anybody in person or any of that .

is there are you go to all the conference, say your about, man, you don't even in the .

word I don't like.

people don't even know you will have pictures of you at death guns, multiple def guns when you go around with mark man and telling everybody you made up seven. But now you're saying you don't tell people come on to just come out with that you know you are now come .

but like I said at the beginning .

is tRicky because .

who want to put wants .

to say that there are the .

right and right .

i'm in for around .

well then you know when he had arrested in stuff and a few other people can in trouble taking out around around them. Thank you.

How is this little don't chase that.

I try not to make any absolute proof that could be used anywhere. So it's I am i'm happy with saying i'm not because I don't even to have been coming .

out in saying the truth are you onna stop going to places in claiming your mom that's all .

been saying a one man for the past i'm trying to think how .

many years you can see your mom just not the one that .

make some seven .

big difference five you jack for .

doing this right now.

Now twenty .

four list .

you he's saying you can continue .

using move band and multiple people saying .

the name that, yes.

color duty users can use IT to that's not a copyright name but he's asking you to stop claiming that you're the creator of sub seven.

我不 can we agree on that。 Come on, you know you want you believe in a lie. I don't I .

don't claim IT in person anymore anybody I only we lame that at all. Um so so that's that's easy to do. We can do that .

if anybody like further further listeners out there, right, like if you think you can like chAllenge me or anything like that, or if you knew me from back in the day, just send the message, will talk IT out. I'm not hiding any think, you know, I can show all the stuff that I talked about, the cds. I I still have the hurry.

I can put in pictures. I can you know me drop if you come over here. I'm still in windsor, still in windsor, ontario. You know, if you ever around the detroit is requested.

i'm confused if you're asking to to fight someone or if you're asking to prove that you're .

the real to see the proof, right to see the proof if anybody wants to chAllenge me in any way or once to actually see all this stuff that i'm talking about, like I didn't think you're gna show up on this. Because what really what could you have said?

why? Why would like? Why would show?

Because you're being outed? Because you're being ordered for how much .

bush you be matter? Why would I care somebody disputes IT or not?

They think .

disport about her like a decade .

because they are.

And then yeah, took over a decade. They get all the to bullshit together. The the I call me out of the from something from thirty years ago that I don't even care about for something .

you don't care about. You sure ourselves spend a lot of time and effort. This is just some some .

fat or al me or well.

I mean, personally, I don't like you telling me that you did something that you didn't do that that looks bad for me and my show in my credibility.

exactly. You have been going around giving interviews as the author of sub seven. How is that? No effort put into IT. You've going to difficult conferences like you know it's a long running come .

when in the in the reason why I believe that is because that damn rolling stone .

article saying that you .

were roling rolling stone had must affect ted. So I I think this must be legit.

So that's that's when this worth code was so I had the source code back then on whatever computer I was using.

You're really going with this like really what source go? Why are you why do you keep going back to IT?

I thought we agree on you're not onna claim that no plain going .

to let you bullshit right now because that's not the sub seven source that has never left my hands until I was released by a will and get her never this you not find a copy of IT anywhere in the world on any website, on any back except the ones I have so like soon as you said, sub seven source, like, no, do stop.

but you ve got to stop. Okay, but I I wanted hear how you got the the throwing stones article. You're about to say something about how that all that started.

right? So so we SAT down and room and, uh, you know, I have my laptop open, IT up, pulled up the source code of the compiled and showed IT around, and and, and so the the hash matched the ones that you can then load from the website and all that. So was .

involved anyway.

that had years .

right away, was should, if if this to you in any way OK.

Our conversation should began getting circular. And we started talking over each other at that point. And so I ended the call, but I think we got to a half as confessional aggregate anyway that he said he had stopped saying he's the author of sub seven and will let you go IT was hard to hear that, but he did say that.

So I think that's the best i'm gonna get from him and i'll have to take that oh, when I looked up greg's birthday on his rest record and he shows october er twenty seventh, not october er fifty, like he said a moment ago. But honestly, i'm not too upset about this. In fact, I knew this would happen eventually. I I grew up in the same culture as these guys, right on R, R, down the pranking people remember once in a computer class and teacher had computer net projector, which was protecting on the front of the class. And I sent to like a network message to his machine, which made a pop up show for the whole .

class IT epic for a teenager.

And one thing I know about this culture is just how much hackers like to, with the press called to the dead cow in particular, learned that the press will publish just about anything that a hacker says. If you're in a hacker group and you say, oh, we have na, the press will just take your word for and publish IT. So they start creating all these wild claims to see how far the news which is spread, just to mess with everyone.

And later on, four ten picked up on this two, trying to hit fake news to spread also. So this culture is just big and simply messing with the media. And it's partly just to show how crap the media is, forgetting that wrong, and how global people are.

I mean, look at the whole birds aren't real movement, right? I'm sure you've heard someone say that birds aren't real. That whole thing was just created to prove how conspiracy theory of misinformation is so easily spread.

So I know the people I talk to, hackers are known for giving misinformation, which means I have to be allergi C2Conspiracy y t he ory in ord er to nav igate thi s eff ectively and to bri ng you the mos t fac tual pod cast I c an. And to do that, I have to really know my history and understanding of tech and the scene to be ready for anything coming my way. So I guess I say i'm not surprised at someone at some point pulled one over on me. But man, this was quite a long time, wasn't IT. I mean, this is elaborate to have your friends watch for you and to have all this proof that you were the creator of sub seven.

Wow.

like, i'm more impressed than a mad at this point. Greg, message me after that call and wanted another call with me. He wanted to apologize to me if he caused any problems in. I started to record .

the call and is no no disrespected. You or anybody else that i've i've you know if they felt heard a betrayer lie to or whatever you know it's nothing personal. It's none of that you know um like I was saw you a respective craft and everything and it's good that you actually I going out you know as I was going through all this stuff with you the other way you know i'm taking in all all this sound like mean if actually reflect back and look at like all the ship that stupid subserving story that I I done I mean, I was I went the capital one, I went to facebook. I went to these businesses, like to interview and on the impression of this guy wrote up seven, let's let's interview, let's firm up here to Virginia R A quarter given a badge, bring in interview and do all this stuff with them you know um so and then I show is like pretty good social fucking and engineering to get all away they do that I mean to like one .

of the biggest financial .

true so I think things like that right is like, yeah and then and then using a variety where like these kids that are coming out or whoever right and they they listen, you know they they hit my above. You know I think those three of your life like I did.

That's a great way to end all episode.

Don't be like .

my mind. 外卖 飞行。

A big thanks to ill will, the real Norman and greg for being good sports and taking us on this wild adventure. This episode was created by me, mr. Pack loss jack resize 而 editor is the infinite loop lover trust and leger mixing done by prex sounder or intro music matter ylang der。 Why do server rooms often have raised floors so that technicians kick under the server, racking, get to the root of the problem? This is dark ladies.