TWiT 1002: Maximum Iceland Scenario - Data Caps, 3rd Party Android Stores, Nuclear Amazon
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It's time for twitter this week in tech. This is one of those shows you're gonna a bookmark. Listen to maybe over a period of time because IT is very information rich. Coral doctor is here, always fascinating, favorite size.

I author and big thinker, Jason hiner, editor in chief of zd net, and brian mccolo from the techmeme ride home are going to talk about google Victory in court last minute Victory. We're to talk about the hacking of korean, why that shows governments should not have back doors, some good things the ftc has done and why netflix is doing so well. All of that more coming up next, twit.

The cast .

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to IT. This is tweet this week check episode one thousand two, recorded sunday, october twenty twenty four, maximum iceland scenario.

It's time for twice this week in tech. The show we cover the weeks tech news and this is a unique show on the twitter network because we have a rotating panellists is never the same. I think that's kind of fun.

All the other shows have kind of a consistent group of panels, but this one's always different. However, all three of our panel is this week, or old friends been on the show many times before. Some of the smartest people in the business funny with curry doctor scientifical author, E F, F, representative for a long time. I just fan out you were used to be an imagining a at one point I don't know that I .

was I was as about a decade ago, I was I the title was something like visionary and residents. And but IT was a disney R N D and blue sky A W D I at imaginary ing. And then I still contract for them every now again, I most of what you work on when you're an imaginer you can't talk about because the N D A. But when disney discloses that you worked on a thing you can then talk about because it's now public so um I worked on a thing called the ghost post which was like a merch box for haunted mansion fans that was like that like that s success and I was one of the writers on IT and sattar who ran IT, who's your your friend life uh, when we want a themed entertainment award, you made a point of of thanking by name every contractor so that we could then all put him on our resume.

Really, that's quality. One of the good ones, that's quality. Now we know you were involved.

Yeah, his newest book is the bezel. He doesn't follow up to that. This is, this is the second in the series right .

after got red A S blue.

The story, the story follows Martin hinch, a forensic account, and the new ones could be picks and shovels. I like IT. It's a kind of of it's a prequel.

Yeah they they go back and forth around time. So I wrote the first one and it's the final adventure of this forensic account who's been busting tax gams for forty years.

And it's set in the only twenty twenty years and it's about a cyp to scan what else, right? And my my editor lived IT so much, he bought three of them and I didn't know what to do because I was the final adventure and i'm like, you know do you bring to go backwards ah like he bringing back after he retired, you know like this is um you know that the sure log homes came back at a retirement. But that was because queen, Victory, united, ecco and doyle and exchange for red, my editor being a very powerful manetho c melling.

Companies, still can't kite me. So I I realized I could tell him in any order and that the if you go backwards in time instead of forwards in time, you get to back shadow instead of for shadowing. And the more detail you put in, the easier IT is to pay IT all off and you seem very premeditated um even though you're just like pulling IT out your butt.

And so it's been just a delight to write these. There's three in the can now two or three more on the drawing board will see if those get rid. But there's lots more on a books in the pipeline as well.

I wrote nine books during lockdown. So just finishing up a book up about incident fiction for four grow. And there's a graphic novel that's also going to be based on that. And we've got a bunch of foreign publishers are going to bring out simultaneous editions and other languages when that comes out.

So I forgot to congratulated you actually. Guess you are on the show when we announced so that the word in certification have been added to the compendium of of real worse.

the word of the year from the american dialogue society.

So as as a result, I should probably just introduce you as the man who created a consider vate.

a man with .

a poogie on the stone. Also with this from zd net editor and chief, I told you was going to be a high power team. Jason hand are good friend. Hi Jason greater, see you.

Glad to be here. I just learned about back shadowing, and I my my mind is still wrapping around that. Excited to think about that.

I feel like you might have a novel in your right hand.

I don't know. I am not very prolific with my words. I wish I was like, I wish I wrote ten, nine books during the end. M wish I were one books during the penda. Ultimately.

it's pretty impressive. And not only that, course books are really, really good. I also with this brian mccollum got a new pie gets will talk about that a bit host to the tech mean at home. Hi brian.

I only wrote one book in my entire life, and that almost killed me. So thirty go.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I technically, I mean, my name is on a number of books, but really only wrote the first two. And after that I said, somebody else can can do this all edit, uh, IT is is the worst unless you're, I guess, corry, where you just comes out of you.

I don't. I work out my anxieties by writing. And so these being very ancient times, I writing a lot.

Yeah yeah, that makes a lot of a sense.

Yeah like if you started, you makes a sarra .

a we're definitely hoping that we will be here in a months, but if we're not. Write more books. It's good um it's nice to have all of you on the show.

I guess we should start with google, lots of google court news course. The dog wants to break up google and proposed a number of possibilities to the judge. The judge is gonna have a hearing next year and a rule next spring about exactly what they're gonna a do with google that that doesn't solve all of google goes.

However, uh, another judge in the epic case, well, this has been up and down story. Judge donato issued his final ruling in epic versus google, saying, google, you ve got to open google place store a competition for three years, but then google went to the night circuit for and ask for an emergency stay, saying, and this is what apple's defensive, its APP story is too, that, wow, you're on. If we open up the store, it'll be bad for users because of secure, because a seure charity, because of security. And weirdly enough, the judge said, OK fine judge donato has caught his november first deadline, and which means until google appeals, which means this isn't gonna happen anytime in my lifetime anyway, maybe in yours.

Now it'll happen. It's just not gonna en .

by november.

Yeah you think that will happen? Oh yeah no I I so look this the foundational problem with a google ad market here um and the ad market is that a google competes with users of its own platform and its argument is no or know we can be the judge in a case where we're also .

the playing or are in in the add both create the market they buy and they sell yeah I was at the case in the APP store.

Well google takes thirty percent every dollar you make right um for transaction fees and they have all these rules that stop you from using other a other ways of processing your transactions. And you know that .

industry apple does that too doesn't affect microsoft do IT with the x box store and SONY do with the playstation store. In fact, they even in both cases is thirty percent. All the cases.

yeah, they're all settled on thirty percent. So the european union is on the verge of making apple cut through the digital services act. So this and so south korean, japan. So this idea, this thirty percent, it's not the industry standard.

It's like because because the you can think of IT is the industry standard because a bunch of rented as charge thirty percent rental on their platform stories, but they're charging for is payment processing. And payment processing. There is an industry standard rate for IT and two to five percent that's considered extremely high like VISA is now being sued for anti trust violations for being as as high as IT is at at two to five percent.

It's gone of forty percent since the pandemic started, and these guys are charging ten times that, right? So this is like a just a gigantic amount of a money. And the difference between three percent and thirty percent is pretty big. One of the main differences here is that there are very few businesses with thirty percent margins. Like thirty percent is a really high margin for a business to have.

And so if you're charging thirty percent, uh, then the business has to charge more, right? Otherwise it's gna lose money because if its cost of of uh you know finalizing the transaction is thirty percent, it's just going to go out of business. And and so on the one hand, that means that our Prices are all going up.

And you often see this uh, happening across the board, even in places where you just buy stuff with a credit card. So like amazon charges forty five to fifty one percent on every transaction when you factor in all the different junk fees they love on on sellers. Uh and uh you would think that that would mean that sellers are raising their Prices on amazon, but the Prices on amazon are the same as they are a target where they have a three percent transaction fee from their credit card processor.

And the reason for that is that amazon has a most favorite nation requirement. So you have to church the same uh, at amazon as you charge anywhere else. And if you lower your Price at target, you have to lower your Price at amazon as well. So the Prices go up everywhere when they go up on amazon, even for the manufacturer own store. Um you know when you have to do apply like a google, apple, every APP is now thirty percent more expensive as of the things you buy inside of IT because google apple up being a cartel, have settled on this like super Normal rate of profit of thirty percent, which is like again a thousand percent more than the Normal rate for transaction processing.

Both google and apple claim though we offer more than that, we store, we download IT more. And most importantly, we vent IT for safety. We provide a quality environment. Apple is saying, well, you wouldn't have an APP store if we didn't create the iphone in the first place. Jason, what is is this credible google security argument that you're honor if what you are to do this is gonna dangerous?

Yeah, mean, it's the it's the trump card that they .

both tried .

to pull right in order, you know, value transactions or to run a platform. And all of that, I mean, to be fair, what both of them claim, you know some of these things aren't public, but in the private developer agreement in that and you know they both will say that up to a million dollars in revenue.

They only they charge you fifteen percent on the first million, that a lot of there are a lot of developers that have small business discounts and things like that. So they are saying that they try to give the small, you know folks A, A, A break. And that is only these large super profitable business is that are that are actually pain.

You know the thirty percent um yes, some of this is going to come out even more so in some of the e discovery in some of these cases, uh, which will be which will be good to see and some of IT has come out certainly in some of the apple versus eu um litigation that's happened. Uh but the bottom line is IT really is IT does feel too heavy to the point. You know if if these credit card processes or are making three to five percent, okay, you know five percent feels you know heavy handed.

And if apple and google say they're also getting some net benefits from our network, from some essentially free marketing that they get by promotion um by being part of the platform and the security benefits that they're doing, some of this like by security checks and and things like that. Still, I think everybody is landed on in the industry that thirty percent is a way too heavy, right? Twenty five percent on top of what everybody's getting. And so we are just in this long process of all of that getting vets, getting, you know, seen the light of day and for the industry and now governments and regulations putting pressure on google and apple to to bring that down to a much more reasonable level. I think all of this is essentially the natural process of that, which is taking a long time and is a bit painful.

People on our shows like alex linsey often say, well, but your apple prove, let's will use apples an example. But I guess so much of google to provides an environment in there would be without the iphone, there would be no APP store. This is another way you're playing on our playing field, so we should be able to charge you whatever you want. Brian, is, is, is thirty percent too much .

for that for sure. I actually have two questions for curry. But number one, to answer that question, kind of I had always heard that the only reason that this happened was when the APP stores first came out with the iphone. You prior that you had Carriers charging like ninety percent like because if you .

went to england back in the day and bought a boxed copy of microsoft word, they'd keep half of IT.

But I mean, historical. Is that accurate? Like you always see the video of, like the developers cheering at the thirty percent figure. Like did IT seem at the time.

good gears at an apple of bank in the reality, destruction feet you're sucked in by at all, i'm sure with Steve jobs who and ask the thirty percent, of course, is gna get applause. Well, as a logic question.

Yeah so so it's important to note that the Prices here are not the Price for just buying the thing that, uh, this is the Price for everything you buy once you own the thing. So this is not just, you know, fortnight. It's everything you buy inside of fortnight.

right? So that was the big epic issue. Was they in fact gotten trouble with apple because they decided now, you know, we give away the game the way we make money is by selling different outfits and moves and and we don't like apple taking thirty percent of that.

That's rent seeking. So so we're gonna came up with a kind of A A plane to sell tokens and things, and apple said no and throw them out. Google did the same. So what an interesting thing is applicant email tried some experience of sidelined, because on android, you can check a box in your system and then give you a big warning. You're gonna go out in the real world is very dangerous, but you can side load an APP. And so IT was dangerous because IT, almost immediately somebody impersonated epic and was people were downloading malware in the form of the pretended to before night, an epic abban in this side loading thing, because IT IT was too hard for users and IT didn't solve the problem.

So they went to court. yeah. So you know, when apple kicked off that, they had the thirty percent Price just for the initial sale. And so that's what people cheer. They cheered OK.

So the box copy of microsoft office cells for thirty percent, but every dollar of revenue we get from that customer after that is ours. Uh, once apple had its I S V, its independence of our vendors, throughly locked into the platform, they turned around. They said all, by the way, thirty percent of your lifetime revenue from this customer now goes to us, right?

So and by the way, you also don't get any information about the customer.

All you can think this is like a multi million Price hike depending on the on the APP, uh, on what apple was charging. And you know, this is real dark vata NBA stuff, right? I'm altering deal pray I don't alter IT further and so I I think that that the an initial cheer might have been completely valid because no one like ingram uh and IT is true, right?

That when you get a competitor in the market or a new distribution channel, you can often realize some, some real savings. The problem isn't that there is a novel distribution channel. The problem was that there was that the distribution channel then was able to use digital rights management.

To prevent um people from offering rival APP stores, right? So so it's like it's not this is the other piece that we really after recognize and I would actually be fine uh, with the courts saying OK apple uh or google, we are not going to force you to allow rival laptops, but we are going to take away your right to sue people who hack new APP stores into your platform because the government shouldn't be in the business of deciding that your business model is the law and it's a felony to violate uh, and that's the thing that apple really wants. That's the cake he wants to have.

Any two is that IT doesn't want the government to intervene in its business, except IT wants the government to literally put people in prison for five years for violating section twelve, one of the dmca, for making their own boot loader for I O S. That lets them put their own APP store on an iphone. And look, if I, if I own an iphone and you make an APP and you want to sell me that up, and I want to buy IT and I want to put IT on my phone, there is no universe in which IT is good for copyright to say that you're not allowed to sell the copyright to work that you made to me someone who wants to buy IT unless apple agrees that were allowed to concentrate that transaction and takes thirty percent of the purchase Price.

is IT completely species that the apple does this to protect us from malware and from malicious apps.

They're just not a reliable naratu whether they're protecting us. So so here's here's a good example, right? So apple added this great button to uh, the IOS, which is they don't let facebook track me button, right? Ninety six percent of IOS users click at the other four percent with their drunk or facebook employees or facebook employees ah IT cost facebook ten billion dollars in the first year and it's great.

But at the same time, as apple turn that on, they started secretly surveilling IOS users gathering the same data the facebook APP gathered using IT to fuel an ad targeting networks are competed with facebook so they really did want to protect you from facebook but not from themselves, right? They are they are very good at protecting you from threats that are also threats to their business. But like they won't fix all the all the long standing cbs in uh web cat because making web kit fully functional and you know W C H mail five compliant would let people just serve up web apps and by pass the APP store so you know the only browser engine available on IOS is one that is full of long standing showstopper bugs that represent serious security vulnerabilities. They won't fix them and no one else is allowed to fix them without risking a prison sentence.

And kind of lukewarm support for progressive web baps, which would have the effect, which would allow youtube well.

that they would have to fix the browser action to get web apps right. And fixing the browser action will make IT easy to make web apps right.

Can I freezing question number two? Because even though this was originally about google, we've ended up talking about apple. And this is not just for curry.

Anyone can answer this. How is how did apple win its case against epic? And graded one core case is different from another card case. Do you have different results and things like that? But what was the argument that was compelling that apple made that allowed them .

to win their case? On the surface of one of the problems was apple's case was judici by a judge, this case by a jury. And I think juries kind of saw the where a little more clearly understanding the problem here. Apple is smart enough to get a judges.

Is there any more nuances to IT beyond that?

Or interestingly judged anatto, when google appealed, actually has now said, well, you have till twenty, twenty seven to fix this. They put a stay. He put a stay on his own decision, right?

Google strategy is obviously to do everybody is strategy, which is keep IT going in the courts as long as possible, like microsoft in nineties and in the two thousands. Eventually you can have a different regime in place that um your eventual remedies might not be as stringent as if they were november. But yeah now last .

warm down no yeah that's that's part of IT.

The other thing is google destroy a ton of evidence, right? They just, and they did this in the D, L, J case too like and even.

you know, you've been caught saying things like don't put this in writing and I may never really clearly understood the risk and and acted. Can you get in trouble for that though? Can you get in trouble for that?

Yeah, yeah absolutely. And this is this is the combination of those two things, the thing that brian just brought up and and the destruction of the evidence. Because we are living in a different era.

So like back in um back when bizz was buying instagram, he sent this uh email like two in the morning or twelve thirty the morning to a CFO going like hey bob, you wanted know why we're spending a billion but on instagram when at sixteen people, thirty million users half of that active a blab a blaw well it's because people leave facebook for instagram mand. They don't come back so we'll recapture them now. So like Normally you can't win up a merger scrutiny, ase, because you have to prove that the merger scrutiny, the merger was intended to reduce competition.

But if the CEO emails the CFO at two in the morning and says, by the way, i'm only doing this for the express purpose of reducing competition, it's very bad for you. And despite that, the obama administration didn't do anything about IT because the obama administration was very friendly to big mergers, as was every administration from Jimmy Carter to Donald trump, a button bagging head. And so but does the first one who actually takes us seriously. So we are in IT like a different universe now because we're enforcing laws that have been on the books since. In some cases, eighteen ninety, the sherman act was passed by john sherman, brother of to come to sherman, uh, and then marking .

through .

georgia.

Of course lena on is the face of the by administrations any trust, a regulation? It's interest to watch journals like the wall street journal attacker in effect saying, oh, look at all the failed .

editorials about how he does nothing right? Rupert murdoch does not pay as editorial board to write one hundred .

editorials about .

someone .

who does nothing .

bears crudup yeah um she's done quite a bit. In fact, most recently, a SHE, the ftc is rule IT must be as easy to cancel as IT is a to sign up for a all sorts of things cancel subscriptions has is about to get much easier to click to cancel rule that you know it's smart because that's something everybody can identify with. You, you wrote, you picked article, Carry that. Now you get out your gym membership. That's exactly what happened to me is I forgot to cancel a part of my gym membership and the building for six months before I noticed, even though I had cancelled writing for the other part.

They've been very quietly holding tech accountable and likes small ways that aren't very that aren't very flashy, right? Like I think a lot of these editorials yourself in the world aren't even I would .

disagree you because there is this kind of general sense that she's a failure, that he keeps bringing these bad cases, that she's lots. So and SHE has lost a few well known cases. And so there is that general sense. And I think some of that encouraged by the wall street journal that her mission has failed. I don't know if that's the case.

Interest go go to brand. I always just going to say like the interesting thing is like I do think at least my sense in the industry is like you know to chorus point like that, they mean business more than they have in recent years, recent administrations. And you know you you I think there are acquisitions and things that aren't even happening because they like will never get this across right now. That was the exact .

point I was going to make IT depends on what side of the industry because on the v side of the the fact that you ema speak IT has basically been turned off in entire sectors aside from the fact that there's no IO is like you are having this either way.

that has caused a of a significant drop in venture capital investment over all this .

is what i'm saying. VC firms are returning their money, the money to the lpas. And you have essentially you like that's why you're having in in the A I space their in the rules a bit by doing these these acquisitions that are to the tune of a billion and a half dollars. So they're really acquisitions and all that name. But yet so even though, okay, maybe SHE hasn't lined up a big tech company against the world to shoot them yet, at least in from from the perspective of um the not yet public part of the market, the start up side of the market, the there is a real freeze on being acquired by a google or an amazon or an apple right now.

You I mean look at look at wax, right? They just they just a note, ed, out of the largest acquisition offer in world history, right? I think twenty one billion dollars wow for a startup.

Uh and like their their VS exit is going to be that weeks will make a business and IT will be good, right? And then they will like either be able to produce an anuwa or, you know, whatever, right? They'll be able to do stuff, uh, on there, on there or or, you know, do an IPO.

Sorry, not wax. Uh, what are they called? I just space. We know W I Z W I.

Yeah, I was looking up. I missed the way there are an info sex darpa.

And right then, the other implication of of wisping, a stand alone company, is that, you know, presumably they do something very good, which is why google offered them just a gigantic amount money. And that good thing is very business critical. And that means that there is going to be lots of businesses that will be able to fail themselves of business .

critical security. There's great nations to this because like you know, adobe not be able to buy fig ma. You'd have to be blind not to see that, that someone taking out the next generation that's coming up and you need but it's not even that like it's the sense that if cloud, everyone understands now that the club providers and are enabling this generation of A I, but you have the weird sort of a catch twenty two that if you're an AI startup, you need the club providers to get the computer that you need.

So in a in a different environment, you would be having all of the big cloud providers just gobble up anybody that became a unicorn in the space, and that isn't happening. And so you're having these weird, again, sort of rob golder k schemes to try to what we need the money to do the compute, but we can't we can get acquired. And so we're getting credits from from amazon and this and microsoft and whatever, so that we're getting this money in different ways that they would have they would have cut a check at the past.

So obviously, the world story journal is hoping that come a january twenty, lacon will no longer be running the ftc. And there's been some evidence that in fact, whether it's trump or Harris, the con might in fact lose her seat. You've been very aggressively in your in fact, I have quoted you many times story in your defense, lena con because I I like you believe that he has made a big difference and really improve things for regular people .

now I think she's remarkable. I also think that you know so don't um counter her out too quickly. So first of all, there's plenty people on the democrat side who said that it's going to be a big fight if the Harris administration wants to turfy but also, like jd events, calls her the only boarding official that he rates as being competent, good as at her job. It's awesome. It's not like the republic and of course.

for completely different reasons, the democrats likely on. But okay, anybody i'll take on big tech a right. Apparently both sides of the rq says you could .

settle all conservative grievances about about social media just by like you know, those land acknowledges where you acknowledged that you're doing you on stolen land. Their boards would have to admit that they were doing all their work on stolen likes that were shadow band from cultural warriors and then that would just settle all the issues forever as a reparation. I don't think it's like I don't think it's A D per sincere.

And I think that the state ag is really like anti trust action against the big tech company is just because it's a way to fund your general Operations. I can paxton is not anti big business campus is just a wildly corrupt uh torn ney general who comes from a state where they would rather you know have a dead golfer governing than even being if they can save them a quarter on their taxes, right? And so if you're gonna keep the lights on and the roads paved, you're going to need to get your money from somewhere.

And he's like, well, maybe we can. So google, everyone hates them anyways, but IT gets you the same place. And then you have like everyone else in the world who's pretty furious about big tech and like the eu is doing some pretty uh taken some pretty big swings, you know Mandating into approvable forcing diagram ation of APP stores from platforms and so on.

And because the tech firms do the same thing everywhere, so like the bad actions that the E. U. Built, an enforcement case on the basis of in europe are the same as the bad actions in south korean, japan. And so the southern japan cases against apple are basically just like google translate of the apple of the european case and because they're doing the same thing there. And like there's countries all over the world where apple and google are cheating in the same way that they do in europe that can just use the same fact patterns and the same exhibits .

to bring to take IT significantly more difficult to go after these pig companies in the us because our politics really is money based and these companies are very no.

ric has their american. That's why the europeans don't care. It's because everyone I don't like, nick lag, who's like the girl who represents facebook in europe, keeps running around, sing nowhere, a european company. And we keep we keep eating pean cyber space secure from chinese communism, but no one .

believes them.

Everybody knows they're like you like big tech was nokia dota telecom and like tella and fio t and whatever or di or something orange orange. Ah exactly. Olive and mercy, right? There would be nothing in the european. It's because there's political space to do something about them.

In fact, often the attacks from europe on american companies are stimulated by european companies like spotify. They come out of european company complaints against the big american companies competing against them.

No, although you know spotify like wouldn't exist if I didn't have these sweet heart deals and give lots of shares to universal SONY and time Warner uh or Warner music who are the seventy percent of all the recorded music and whose structured spotify business arrangement and took billions and stocks from them. So they're kind of .

a multinational company but the a hittites fun al for music, it's really a very sad story. Yeah, when Daniel eck makes more money than any artist in any musical artists in the world's history, that tells you something right. But controlling the distribution is the most important.

But keep in mind here, the labels make a lot of money. They just oh yeah because they all have minimum payouts every month that are mostly unattributable royalties. Because if the stream per string rate is really low, then the amount of money you oto musicians based on their streams is quite low. But if you get a minimum payment from spotify every month, the difference between what you go to artist and everyone else is an unattributable royalty. You can do whatever you .

want with that. How how do we fix the music industry? And this is completely off topic. But but it's it's but it's a good way. We look, I know we all love music, and we all really love the artists who make music. And every time I gone the subway in new york, I think there's a lot of really talented people were forced to bus in subway stations are on the streets of lana because they can't get a record label to look at them.

And even if they did, they would get squeeze.

really. And then they'd get squeeze you. You look at chapel, who wrote a little lazear, who rose out of social. But you know, you know, they're making a deal with the devil in order be successful. I was just trying .

to find the book that I wrote about this. I read a book with record gabon called choice capitalism.

What a great book. By the way, I had you in rebeca on trying people could go back and look at that show for a so we have a bunch .

of concrete thing. So like one is termination of transfer. So under the U. S. Copyright act, after thirty five years, you can terminate your copyright transfers so you can just take your music back and we salad so you bargain from .

a week of Taylor wouldn't have had to do Taylors versions of all of .

you could terminate those transfers yeah you know if you so we could make termination transfer fifteen years instead of thirty. We can make an automatic twenty unless you take an affirmative step. There's lots of things we could do there. We could have a universal international database of rights holders, because right now all the rights are managed in every country with a different database that's full of holes. We could ban collecting societies from using unattributed able royalties for anything except royalty attribution.

So if you get money for music was played and you don't know who that belongs to, instead of giving IT to your idea, and if you to do you know music development where he just gets to go to nigh clubs and like throw us money around you, actually the only thing you're allowed to use the forest figuring out which artist the money is o to. So the next transship money goes to artists. There's a whole bunch of stuff we could do, and then we can have blanket licenses. So once music is being strapped on any platform, you could stream IT on all the platforms provided you pay a fixed fee, which is how radio and you know uh cover songs and life performance and a bunch of other things work.

So that's a compulsory called compulsion license yeah .

a compulsion blanket license. But you could carve out you could say it's only once music is stream. So you wouldn't take those bands that are like on band camp who you know selling album for ten box that you really like, but you're not going to listen to everyday. So a blanket license wouldn't do them any good. So so long as that's not license for streaming, so long it's only a download.

You just carve IT out of the compulsory in the same way that there is no compulsion for covers until someone records the song first, so I wants the song is recorded there, then anyone can record the song and place and salad, provided that they pay a fixed fee to the composer. And IT would be the same kind of thing. There's a whole bunch of stuff. None of IT is like comprehension, but each part of IT does something. And then finally, like sectoral bargaining and break ups for the big uh, music company. So break up the the big three labels who own seventy percent of all the music, make them sell off their publishing businesses that on sixty five percent of compositions and allow the musicians to form a single union that bargains with all the labels, the way the Green riders can cause that that the screen writers won the AI strike because there is one union that represents all the workers against every, uh, entertainment company in the sector. I feel like.

I mean, obviously, you've got the plan and this is a great book, a highly recommend, to your point, capitalism. But I feel like it's it's kind of a doomed, how we how could you do all of that? What you have, ideas lying around .

and then crisis common than ideas on the perfect of the center. That was melting freedman theory, and he was right. That's how our lives got destroyed. 是， you know, if IT worked for him, I can worked for us.

We just need our reagan the way.

That's all. Yes, we need dark reagan.

Dark wagon that's cry doctor. The place to go is the bezzle that org or crap hound dog com, which is his website. All the stuff is stored their blog as a pluralistic dot net.

And honestly, I feel like you're required reading for the internet generation because it's so important. Understand what's really going on. Thank you.

Sorry for being here. We appreciated also with this brim color. What's your new podcast tell us about that?

Well, so when I come on here and you always joked that I put the history head on.

I love the history, and i'm not knocking in well.

And I was doing history for about a decade before I started doing the techmeme ride home seven years ago, and I had an each to get back to history. But I didn't want to write another book as we were talking about at the begin of show. So i'm doing a podcast that sort of like my happy place.

I like the people you've had on .

this is just it's eighty ninety history. So it's a history of people who lived IT. exactly.

It's called red history. Just search red history wherever you get your pie cast. And like I said, IT is eighty and ninety stuff. So like for, for instance, if you go right now, the most recent epsom with john gruber is about the history of the game. Gold nine, develop seven g segar came on to talk about black mister video came on to talk about the golden r hey .

I ve i'm going .

to do um an episode with the wall street journal pentagon correspondent about the making of top gun, the movie top gun because they had to work with the pens do that the next one is gona beyond calvin and hubs with Daniel kibble smith.

Ah that will be great.

We'll used to write for the cobell reporter or whatever kobe show is now these days. Anyway, the idea is I get friends of mine to come on. I have a list of topics, anything eighties and nineties is fair game.

Anyone on this panel, if you're interested, you hit me up. I have a running a list of of topics. And IT could be anything from a movie to an album to i'm onna do a already recorded at the history of the answering machine with tony trucks, who's who's an actress.

So anything eighties and nineties look at up, it's called red history. And it's like I said, it's fun. It's it's my great idea.

Congratulations, brian. You know how this works though. You have launched one and then you launch another, and then you launch another. And pretty senior in your attic. Well, okay.

anyone to do red sports or red ots IT? That's a good idea.

That's a good idea. Also with this, Jason hiner and chief of zeit. And I was realizing with tugman, everybody else this book, don't forget Jason wrote a really excEllent book called follow the geeks.

the one who still has that.

Okay, I loved this book, maybe at a print I don't know, but it's it's worth reading. There's biography of some of the best geeks in the world by tony thirsty tly sabean, gene jani to on merit o male and look like .

proto influence our generation right? So these are folks that sort of anticipated the including yourself leo .

jack sorry .

yeah and you know people that anticipated the influencer um you know that really pave the way for the influencer economy, a an influence of marketing and all of that but did IT in such a an amazing way you know you own heroica bellman is in their top man is in there. You know so many others as well as .

this is the closest thing i'll ever have to a bio, a biography. So buy this book. Chapter nine is a very special to me. Thank you. Chic and hind great, all three of you on the show this week. Our show brought to bib bit warden, my password manager, Steve gibson, which two and a couple of years ago, we're in big fans a bit warden because it's an open source past revenue.

I always say when you're talking in the crypto to open source is really important because when it's open source, you know there's no back doors, you know the third parties convert IT, but wardens codes on gigi's ub regularly audit IT, but you can not IT to or an expert in your life. IT is also because of a source free forever for individuals, which is really, really important. Bit worn is a password manager that offers a cost effective solution that can dramatically improve your chances of staying safe online.

Right now, that's really important. We just had amazon's prime day, black friday. Cyber monday is coming up.

The holidays are here and you're going to do a lot online shopping. The bad guys know that. That's why they are going to spook all of those sites.

You're going to try to get you enter your password ds, your credentials, your addresses. IT decides that look in every respect like the real deal. But aren't they are a conduit to the bad guys.

You're wallet to the bad guys wallet. That's why you need bit warden, bit warn. This is just in kind of timely fashion, expanded their inline auto fill capabilities.

So now the bit more and browser extension doesn't just fill in passwords. IT also fills in credit cards identities pakis too, that means and and none of those will be filled in on spoof sites. They're only filled in on legit sites.

Is benefits everybody because IT means you're going to have a secure interaction with web forms for the things that really matter, like payment details, contact and for addresses. Its center for businesses, bit warden, gives you unparalleled soso integration and flexibility. You can quickly and easily safeguard all business logging using your single sign on security policies.

They're fully compatible with saml two point o and o idc. And of course, bit warden's integration with your existing solutions could not be easier, couldn't be smoother. It's so simple.

Thousands of businesses, including some of the world's largest organizations, trust bit warden to protect their online information. I think you should consider switching a bit warning IT only takes a few minutes. They support importing for most password management solution, so it's no trouble.

And I know all of you use password managers because you smart people, but what about family and friends? We all of us, all of our scheepers family friends. So what are you doing? They're using the same password in every site.

It's their dog's name and their birthday and their mother's made name or whatever. It's insane. And maybe they say, well, I don't I don't want to pay for a pass for manager.

Bit warden on is free forever. For individuals, easy to use. And for businesses, there is no Better way to secure your business.

Get started with a bit warden trial, absolutely free of teams or enterprise plan right now or if you're an individual free forever unlimited passwords, all the devices, mac, I IOS, android, windows, linux, every device bit warden that comes flash to IT use that address theyll know you said here, that helps us sound a lot and we thank bit warden for supporting this week and take bit warden that com slash to IT thanks bit warden. We appreciate what you do to keep us safe and secure. Let's see that we do all that.

But I didn't ask you core if you have an opinion. This is kind of old news, but I we will be covering this for a few weeks. Dogs planned to break up google and their search monopoly. What do you think of what their proposed remedies are? Is there one that you prefer?

So I think I break up is fine. And I think particularly when we're talking about self referencing questions, it's really hard to like enforce a rule that just says play fair even though you're the referee and you're on the team. So you know you think about like there's there's a case coming up now about google's odd business that's gonna the same foundational issues, which is like you, they represent sellers, they represent buyers, they on the marketplace, they also compete with sellers and buyers.

And I would say it's like you go to get a divorce and you and your soon to be x find out that you have the same lawyer who is also the judge and is trying to match with both of you on tinder and then when the case is over they say like hey IT turns out that um the most equitable arrangement for the disposal of the marital assets is i'm going to take your house and you know this is like just it's just very hard to break that up. So structurally separating these companies so that they they just don't have the conflict of interest is fine, but there is one unbelievably nearly issue with this break up, which is what you do with the data. So the judge in the search case found that google's data was a source of durable advantage. I don't know if I believe that I think google over cells how much that gets out of its data as a way of like .

talking to investors. Does that mean the the web index, the spider index.

is that with the surveilLance data. So the customer data like all the vertical other vertical data. So android crime, uh, youtube plus like all of the things like every time they embed on to do analytics and they are getting data plus like that a broker stuff they die and all the other stuff they've got that data.

The judge said, okay, that's where some of their advantage comes from. And um so one of the remedies that people I Normally agree with have been calling for is like, why do we make them share this data, uh, with everyone else? And I think this is a terrible idea, right? IT is horrific that google spies on us. The way IT does that would be even worse if we democractic zed, violating our human rights by making google share the data with everyone else.

There's also the question about whether if we break up google, do we give each of the baby google a copy that data? And um one of the problems with with either making them share IT or making them delete IT is the way that that would affect every other first amendment case because that the level at which the order to delete expressive true facts, which is the data they have, the level of which that's considered in the courts when we think about first amendment cases, is something called intermedia at scrutiny where you're saying, okay, well that violates your free speech rides to be forced to delete something that you own, some information you own, some expressive true facts that you own is this the the best remedy the government has? Is there any other way to form to fulfill the legitimate purposes of the government without taking this step, as there are less invasive to your speech step we can take?

And if we decide not and we do this, then every other case where intermediate scrutiny is applied, like, are you a journalist who sent a foil request to a government agency about their contracts with some sleezy contractor and they send you the contracts and they forgot to react IT. And now they want you to delete that data, which is the thing that happens all the time and a subject to intermediate scrutiny. If we, we can intermediate scrutiny, we make IT easier for corporations to keep their duty secrets out of the public eyes. So this is like super nearly question about what we can do yeah with this data and it's and I think that if we tell google, okay, you've got ta share the data with everyone in order to remedy this problem that you have where you've spied on us and created a durable monopolistic advantage. We are going to discard the idea of antimony poly because people can say, oh, well, antimony poly is a system m for violating our privacy more to.

yeah no kin. Why don't we just make him burn IT well.

because that's a dad destruction order and that weakened the standard for you to intermediate scrutton. And if that happens, then maybe other first amendment cases that we care about with playing tips that we like more than google um or defendants rather that we like more than google are going to have a much worse outcome. So that would be a monkeys .

paw IT often feels to me. Jason, this moves so slowly and the market is moving at a much higher speed. Yes, and google search is getting worse and worse and worse. Maybe the market will just solve this. Maybe the court aren't the best way to fix this.

Saw that you know the interesting thing ironically with this, the one of the best things that's happened um for for consumers has been the failure of google fiber. And I never would have thought i'd said that.

but I I I wouldn't think so either. I mean, that seems like they have force verizon and a lot of other companies to lower their Prices, upgrade their fiber, upgrade their connectivity.

For sure, IT was a failure for google, but may be a win for consumers. But I thinks IT was a win. The google specifically fAiling was a win I member on a podcast a few years ago, right as google fiber was starting to take off and never was like, yes, google fiber is gonna to my neighborhood and one one park guests one various um interviewer said, okay, this all seems good.

Tell me what's wrong? There's gotta be something that isn't good. I'm like everything that google .

knows about the GLE get more a and who's .

the only one the only entity that knows more about you than the one who does your fema and that your I S P. And the reason the I S P can do, they just can get their act together. They don't know what to do with data and so they don't quite understand or no. And there there are some loose.

They managed to sell IT on to to data brokers pretty effectively, I think, that guard out their values.

But imagine if they had succeeded, and google fiber had become like the number one I S P in america, oh my god, like we would be in a really this idea would be even more difficult.

And now makes me wonder, maybe google backed off because they were worried about any trust issues providing the band with, as well as everything on the internet. I mean, actually, isn't that what meta wants to do in in developing nations is internet dot orgues is provide the internet that everybody uses in all. By the way, meta will be free in instagram, will be free in .

internet for poor people.

Yeah, I loved in this response, which is, no, no, we have a lot of experience with the colonialism, and we know we're not interested what was even Better .

than than that because google did this push, uh, or facebook did this push thing where if you had the facebook APP IT was like click here to send a note, the regulator telling them not to kill facebook zero and but then the the letter, the standard letter didn't address the questions the regulator had asked in the docket. And so the regulator got like a bunch of non responsive answers and they said, well, none of these are responsive to the questions raised in the docket. So we're just setting them aside, which like just an amazing own goal, like they are definitely not sending their best.

Well, maybe we should be glad.

right?

Jason googe's failure is our success.

Facebook and google owning the internet pipes .

is an absolutely terrible idea. I think I agree, of course, comcast stones the majority internet pipes. The united states, i'm not sure they're much Better. We're using calm cast right now to do this show, but they're .

smart enough to do anything really dangerous. Sic, yeah.

okay, don't give any ideas. There is a ton of fiber .

in the bay partisan infrastructure bill like just a massive amount. And then in california, there's a supplemental funding to do city county line to county line or city limit to city limit fiber for free, like at public expense, and then to offer zero interest loans and technical assistance to municipalities, undergraduates, towns, PS and whatever to bring that to your curb.

This is why atn t ring my doorbell T A couple of months ago and said we'll give you two gigg a bit some metrical for what you're paying charter for one gig bit nowhere in his metrical. And it's never really a giggle bit. It's what i'm using now because they're really hoping that i'll just forget that we're about to get public fiber here in blank and just stick with right now att forever.

That's the solution. Everybody I know, including our mutual from imposer, thinks is the real solution has get municipalities to do the the infrastructure.

Here in burbank, we have fibre loop. I actually used to use IT when I was an imagine here because it's what feeds does me here. And the deal with charter is that they won't terminated in any residential zone property. So about a third of my property tax bill every year is um paying for the bond that they took out to put in the fiber and the fiber runs under my foundations life. It's under my feet right now.

But nice to use IT. Oh wow.

So this is why we're going to get changes to our telecoms policy because so why you .

why are you not allowed to use? Because that my home is .

not zoned commercial. So the deal with charter, as charter provides universal service that will bring a line into your house if you live in the burbank city limits. And the quit provo is that the city won't terminate its municipal fiber in a residential property.

Uh and so I pay for IT. It's like under my foundations lab but I can use IT. And so I used to be paying charter just a shocking amount of money uh, for really bad fiber and now are really that cable and now in paying atn t the same amount of money for a reasonably good fiber.

But I will get rid of a like as fast as I possibly can the day we start getting city wide fiber. You know, I much rather have that money stay in the city, disappear. See.

Jason, they're not as dull as they look prety pretty little less dumb than they look.

You especially .

comes to manipulating government. The fcc is looking into something. This has always been, to me, A A real red hearing that these broadband data caps that everybody, all the isp. So no, remember the ads that ban with hog ads that comcast used to take out. We're protecting you from band with hugs, with broadband data camp. Well, the fcc is trying to figure out really, and why do they still exist? I have this soccer argument with devora and I said, it's like water, you know, once you pay for the infrastructure, the cost of the band, the broadband is not that expensive.

creating much less expensive .

than yeah. On tuesday, the fcc approved notice of in great exam, whether data caps harm consumers and competition as well as love. They threw this in why data caps persist, quote, despite increased broadband needs and the technical ability to offer unlimited data plans, you can share your experience with broad band data caps with the fcc through a form they invited consumers to comment starting last june. There are already hundreds of comments there. Do you think that the fcc will eliminate or or prohibit so?

But to be clear here, this is applying to both wireless and wired the line. Okay, this is wireline. Yeah, got IT. Yes, okay, yes. I guess I .

guess you could say mobile broadband, why bin IT is is restrained, constrained resource. So maybe you need brought brand with caps, but I think it's pretty well establish this point. Once you put in the infrastructure.

you could throw any bits that that's a funny, but I coin's only that's a funny thing like I keep waiting and i've been waiting for years now for you know the now five g ovc was a largely a marketing hype sort of thing, but um I keep waiting for the the telecom companies to offer true competition by saying, hey, by the way, forget pain contests like we'll give you unlimited uncapped internet service just put a little thing in your home that connects two are five G H alter wide band, whatever the network and and no caps and you know cheaper like where why hasn't the competition come against that? Because that would be like a key thing that you could offer is um we won't kep IT in your home.

Well, of course, t mobile and various in both offer these residential fig mobile mobile hospice, but they cap them absolutely the halo .

x is a good option here. See A L Y X, uh, they were there the uh first I S P that ever chAllenged the national security letter. These are the wow sneak peak warrants that the patriot created. They successfully chAllenge one of those. So there are non profit.

There are five, three, three and IT turns out that um a lot of the spectrum that was allocated to the big Carriers was allocated on the basis that they would provided at extremely low cost and nonprofits. And so collects has a uh V M N O V M O vertical virtual network, google or or win or whatever. And you you can um get a 5g hot spot from them that has unlimited on traffic， shaped, non surveyed, completely unblocked, right bije. And some of that is actually taxed deductable, if I recall .

correctly as well, is in a mesh system.

No, it's just they are just using the Carrier's network, but the Carriers have to provide service to uh the to nonprofit nonprofit.

They also do there.

They sell d google android uh privacy focus t handsets as well with sense。 So you can take .

that on the so if IT IT uses the t mobile network. So if you had t mobile, well, is there spring anymore? Yeah well.

there's two different networks. It's one company, but there's right is two different networks. Yes, I think there's a four g spring ever get poverty spend .

our if you really want to, that would be a good episode for you. Brand y max, why? Why my son would get confused .

is very confusing.

His, me.

I was. His name is. Max, yes.

funny. Oh, I get. No, I don't mean that. Max, five hundred dollars for the first year, four dollars there after.

That's for a four g wifi hot spot or five g for six hundred dollars. yeah. So that's fifty box a months. Is that a good deal? That doesn't seem like that good a deal.

Unlimited five g it's a great deal. Is IT like if you're going to replace your home, Robin, with IT for sure, if you yeah if you're out the country, whatever and you're paying up.

you know, I felt for I felt for ella. I got so we're using comcast. But what IT fails, everyone. So I have started to like thing up on the roof and not fifty dollars a month.

By the way, leo, if I do a why max episode, it's gonna be, why did they kill the HBO brand and go with max? That would be the one that I would.

oh, that would be even Better. You know why?

X ontology show, where you just ask all the y max questions, what happened to why max? Why is max calls? Why is H B O called max? And then you pick someone called max. And you are.

you just bring your son on. You ask him .

a bunch of .

questions a bushire wow and I have .

an interview from um y max. The head of y max IT was a teach good day I think IT was from at the time and I was telling I was asking him, um you know what if people were were sort of saying we're crapping on um being a dumb pipe, you know and he's like, look, if we created a dumb pipe that you know gives people unlimited bandwidth, great internet all over the world like we will do IT all day and that was like, that's not you wall street is going to love but obviously people will love IT. I thought I was really interested. Anyway.

I would have seen why IT bias when sprinting made a big mistake, going all in on why max instead of four g and at .

the .

Price sure I don't you. There's history there. There's a sorry there. So this colleague is really interesting. It's nationwide.

Yeah, yeah, the only reason. So I use full of full transparently here. I use fine. And I used fight as I travel .

internationally. Yeah, that is the .

only White like you go to germany or whatever and you them, and you just, you come home thousands of dollars. Poor, right? So and in china, five gives you uncensored internet.

Oh, I didn't know that.

or at least a lot. I was there.

So you've used in china. Oh, that's really interesting. How did they get away with that?

I think IT all run through google VPN.

Yeah so you're in point to enton, so you're on the VPN. They have a deal with some chinese character of Carrier because google is not in .

china of this well and that's the same in italy. Yer spin or whatever friendly, they now block uh S N T P and pop in germany. So uh and like I spent like I was in berlin for two weeks and I basically spent every day mAiling tear three customer support and they would be like what what is your email address and i'm like you don't need to know my email address.

Here's like here's like your ports, right and they're like, oh, well too, but you're not using a google email address so we don't offer support for that and like it's not a gmail address. I just got four, nine, ninety five, please. And eventually I just gave up and just, I VPN into you.

Why would anybody ever want to use any mg? What's wrong with you? Yeah, right. We're going to take a break when we come back.

Let's talk about kolia, the communications assistance for law enforcement act, which passed in one thousand ninety four, and I did not realize this, provided a back door for wiretapping into encrypted, detailed communications that proved to be a bad idea very recently. We will talk about that just a bit. Great panel.

Cory doctoral is here. The new book of the bezzle is awesome, highly recommended. Pluralistic dot net is is a blog, Jason hiner zd net.

The redesign went well. Yes, I love IT. Everybody is happy.

Everybody y's thrill .

double .

your numbers. Best redesign we've ever done that i've ever been involved with and and at the have been huge as manufact um for so much that .

you could buy seen IT you .

know the eating that as small as a staff in all of that. But on on prime day, we did this. The fall prime day was just like a couple weeks ago, and we did this thing where we say, look, our our whole mission is just to help people cut through the stuff that is not actually deals where they like market up where they pretend that is like.

We're just going to try to help people find the things that are actually deals and products that we've actually used, that we actually would recommend they buy. And we we thought, you know novel strategy won't necessarily work. But we um you know we did IT and um we had this great um third party data. So we knew I was going well like our a response was great um but uh news dash did a thing on the best performing sites for prime day and it's like all the giant ones and eating net was actually number one um which was sort of blue our minds that we uh no finished number one just by doing .

consumer advocacy essentially so how has so let me get this straight. You did acquire seen IT. Am I right? Because at one point seen that bought you. I'm very confused who owns whom?

Sif Davis, which is the original city and city net, as you know. Well.

yes, I used to work for them. Yes.

so, yes. So siv Davis, this is kind of like one of those things like at, you know how atn t isn't really A T N T. And right? It's somebody that acquired the brain.

Z net is not sif Davis.

no. Z D net is the net was uh and and has been up until you september part of the twenty over twenty .

years bought CD net. I remember that .

that's right.

I was very you can imagine I confused. I was I and I saw this story when please explain .

when you saw that zf Davis was buying seen you're .

like I don't so what happened was the company .

that is now called safe Davis was the other company um called j two global.

which is best known for its facts software yeah .

in a number of other things is a portfolio company. Only over forty companies that has done this amazing come back over the past decade. What they did was they sold off some of their internet services businesses in twenty twenty one in the fall. And what they kept were mostly their portfolio of internet businesses and they were named themselves sif Davis and took the stock ticker d because it's a public company so that if Davis, which wes, P C mag and a number of other you know P C mac, mashable, life, faker, a number of other brands on 乌 克拉 who won， who run speed test, that net, that business then bought, seen IT and ceding IT from revenues, which was the company that has the two brand.

So have gone through a transition as well then for sure.

Yes, no longer owned by red venture venture part of ziff Davis, which to be fair, this causes people enormous amount of confusion internally all the time because now they when they say.

did you have to change because had a venture female address, right?

I so I have I thought to be honest, I never used that there are a few people that had IT. I never use IT because look, i've been through six acquisitions.

My hair day is still february two thousand one because I ve been through sk when I started a tech republic which is actually no longer even part of our ortons lio any longer um so so yeah long story short uh i've seen a lot of these and somebody asked me at the beginning this year, you know are we going to be sold and on late, like look, i've been through at that point five acquisitions you know twenty three years. That's one every five to six years. How long or four to six years or four to five years, how long we've been owned since by red ventures is like four years. I like you do the math.

What does IT is a reflection of the soft test of of the a market for a online tech publications? Or are you polish? Because I look at i'm more going away and non tech on away. I really start to worry about my friends, almost all of our house work for online tech publications yeah .

why I think you have to look at a couple things. We talked about IT earlier with facebook and google, right? Facebook and google have squeeze all of the value in the profit.

They now, you know, eighty five cents of every dollar in online advertising like they keep for themselves. The rest of us, everyone else split the rest fifteen percent. So again, what a math sort of a tells you that like they're just not as much money going around.

That's why you see things like him as on prime day or it's like, okay, if we going to light our interest with an a filly to marketing has its own chAllenges, you know um as well but that's where you see sites like hs and others say, okay, if we can at least aligned interest with the users, where is if we can make a good recommendation, they trust us and they trust our advice and they buy something, then we get um you know A A drag on the sale essentially than that takes us out of making being a one liked economy based on uh, internet advertising. So that's one thing in the premium. You see two right more sites are are offering some behind payout information there.

I look at Jessica, Jessica lessons at the information. One would have thought that when he started IT for her dollars here, nobody, I mean, who that is, that a viand IT is viable. They're expanding. Their growing theyve .

done quite well. So they're still a lot of business metal transformation that has to happen. And I I think to just put a you know to loop IT all together, I think the thing is, is ultimately in a world where there are more content farms, there's a big rush of A I A I base content come in. Our bet is that um nothing creates demand like scarcity. And whether is this a scarcity of reliable information, human to human advice that that's where our value can be and that we have to do some business model transformation and think about how um you know we survive in a world where uh you know this information is being you know sucked up by these AI chatbot and then use right to to give people answers based on the information we provide. And so that's one of the reasons to see more of these sites like ours either blocking the chap hot, although they're getting around .

to that to be honest.

their finding ways to get ah yeah we block every um one of the A A I scrapers and still information shows up so all of that to say like. That we're in A A period of transformation. Um our bet is on quality and doing right by the audience and hoping that we find really good business models to curious.

I hope so too because this is important information you know as as the tech world changes so dramatically because of the influence of AI is really more and more important that you find a reliable trust for the source of information so that you are informed. That means one of the reasons I want to keep doing twitter. We've also gone through a depressed ad market.

That's what we cut back quite a bit, cancel quite a few shows, laid off people. So got rid of studios where i'm now up in miami, although I think that looks Better than this too. I I love IT love what it's actually improvement.

I miss having people in the same space is me, but otherwise, I think it's an improvement. Nevertheless, that's that's an example of having to adjust to a new reality. And the other thing we're doing, and I think this is really important, I suspect everybody will end up doing this is, is asking our community to support us.

We started club to IT one two years ago. Now lisa really was kind of a visionary. He said, we really need to do this.

She's also the one to say, let's keep the Price low. So it's only seven bucks a month. You get add three versions of all the shows we do. I do five myself, and then there's my gun bunch of other shows, untitled linux show on saturdays, all of those. You get video as well as audio.

When you join the club, you get add free versions of them, you get access to a special discord chat area, which is a really moving and exciting and things are going on all the time. That's club members only. That's kind of fun.

Special events. We did a special event on friday, a coffee show with my prince of the coffee geek and Sarah dui, who is a coffee connector. And when a company called beans subscription company, and I thought that, that was a lot of what we're going to do that again.

In fact, Sarah tells me that we're going to do a tasting next time, and we will send out coffee tasting kids to people who want to taste along. So we have a couple of different variables. It's really it's fascinating area anyway.

These are all things we do because the club lets us do IT and your money lets us do IT. So if you're not a member of the club, I would love to invite you to join. I understand if we do all of our stuff free at supports still as well, but I really would love IT if we could get the support of our audience.

That tells us that a signal us that you want us to keep doing what we're doing, find out more twitter, that TV slash club to IT. And now we have a new way that you can get a membership for free by referring people. You get a month for everybody who joins.

So just get twelve friends together and you're gonna get a free year, all of that twitter, a TV slash club to IT. Thank you very much to all of our club members who are watching life. By the way, another thing we did because of the shutting of the studios and because of the club, we now stream everywhere you could possibly stream.

Yeah this. And you know, it's really worked on tiktok for the first time this week. Uh x tot com, uh, facebook linked in, of course, youtube, twitch, discord, cake, eight different places we streamed simultaneously.

Join me on tumbler. You stream me on tumbler. I don't on tumbler.

I don't know if you can, but i'm on tumblr all the time.

I am two at at least because I ve joined because I want to support matter and what he's doing with tumble, I believe tumblers a historic website. Lisa said, what's seventy dollars for? Temple said, well, I paid to support them.

SHE is a port side. So this is not a porn site. What you're talking .

about something is not a port side. They made them take all the porn off.

They took all the porn off. It's more of a corky place. We're interesting people although I notice corry, you're still on x dock com ah and that's by the way, given me permission. I don't post on x but we do stream on x now i've been think I should I stream on x but but you're still there.

If I could, if I could still reach the audience I have there are from somewhere else. I'd leave. I'm being held hostage by the collective action problem. Yeah, you know, the whole story of initiation ation. It's why I haven't joined blue sky, but I i've said i'm no longer going to join platforms unless I know I can leave without losing touch with the people on them.

We will talk about that actually that's part of our upcoming yeah I mean.

they federated everything except that part and if they federate that part, all join one thousand two hundred .

sixty three people watching us right now, including on x 点 com。 We can get a lot of people watch I X. So you can, you know, it's good.

I just want, look, we've always thought the best thing we could do is be everywhere. Let anybody wants to see us. See us.

There's a name for IT. It's POI post on site, share everywhere.

There you go. I am a big posy fan.

I think the key to you touched on IT on terms of the future of media, you know, is like I still think being out what to put IT out so that it's free as everywhere as much as possible, like the information doesn't want to be free um and yet give the opportunity for that like ten to fifty percent of your audience who are your most loyal, most engaged audience, give them like a higher level of service and let them opt into to pay.

I don't like I have a pay wall, yes, but but I also think that if you like what we do would be nice to have your support. You know, when we first started, I did not want to do ads at all, but there just wasn't enough. And there wasn't the infrastructure for IT, to be fair, in two thousand and five. But, but, but this wasn't enough money to make IT.

You tried the tip jar, tried the tip jar early on.

I still have my seven bitcoin. I can't.

Yes, IT, the key to IT also is, you know, the way people consume information now is the tiktok unification thirty seconds. So imagine, I know to use the term sales funnel is shitty, but put all of your content out there and bite size pieces and then like a fn al going up, then okay, then our long form pieces that are ad supported then are you know then you get to the very top of fun of which is, you know it's the old thousand fans are whatever. But for any cradle like that's why everybody that has three million followers on tiktok or or x or whatever has either um um why can I think of the newsletter company at the minute?

Sorry, let me turn Jimmy him all I went just quite a tiktok my mistake.

either a subject or a patron on because essentially you have to start thinking of social media as it's sort of like it's a distribution that you kindly get paid for, just not paid as well as when your fans paid you directly.

We are on tiktok, as you can see life right now. But we also have starting to put stuff up on tiktok. And actually, we've got for one of the things we did, we just got one hundred thousand views, which means hit the algorithm right? We did said something that triggered the algorithm.

Go on the four u page. You know, my son is a tiktok star, two and a half million tiktok followers. He was smart enough to go to ins gram and get a million enough there. So i've been watching him. And really he said, you just got to figure out what the algorithm promote and do that, which I hate because that is not genuine, that's not organic.

You you also can't. I mean, I guess there are smart of people and us to do this all the time. But like I had I had something on instagram that that did five hundred thousand views couple of weeks ago. But like compared to things that i'm like, okay, well.

this will be something that yeah.

you don't know do possible to IT also happened three weeks after I posted IT so you never know what trigger that stuff so well.

I for once, well, we know what happened, which is IT got on you.

But but that gets, that gets my point is just flood the channels right, right? Because if if you don't know, you can't craft IT. But like elio and like me who does a daily show, like if you have if you have all of this content, if it's just sitting there, then then like charm in the water, if you don't know, it's going to be picked up, right?

Yeah, we had two and twenty four thousand views on this thing. We talked about what an educate and windows weekly, we talked about extended education.

and I K up really important and subbed distinction to draw between. I make things that I think the algorithm going to like, and I have things that I want people to know about, and I try to figure out how to get them in front of people because that is that's genuine. I I put a lot of thought into that uh, and if the thing if the heart stop the the guard rail around the way that you, uh, revise or present the work that you do is is this clearly communicating the thing that matters to me as supposed to have? I found something that, uh, I think algorithm will be pleasing to algorithms, then I think you can do well.

And you know, I think this was the promise of blogging at the beginning, was that you went from A A publishing world where you would try and find a demographic that advertisers wanted to reach, and then you would try and hire people who could produce material that be interesting to that demographic. And with blogging IT was you produce material that was interesting to you and other people who are interested in the same stuff as you showed up on your blog. And I think this is why the early dies of blogging were so exciting, right? Because there was .

that genuinely, yes, the bite size stuff could not be underestimated, though i'm gonna mention red history, but we were launched, we launched consecutively with the youtube channel as well, right? But each episode, because my friends say to me all the time, I watch car youtube channel stuff all the time, and I watch soccer youtube channel stuff all the time. But I don't watch the full shows.

I watch the three minute clip or the five minute clip that they put up. And so for each episode that i'm doing for for read history. I am making an AI lets you do this really easily.

Now, ten different clipsed that I will also put on youtube and also put on tiktok. Because, again, what corry said was, what is the thing that I want? people? What do I love? What's my passion? great. I throw IT out in the water. And sometimes maybe with youtube especially, you can get a little bit money for IT, but that is your ability to reach the audience and market yourself with a little bit of change throwing in on the side. So it's the bite size ability I think is is going to wear the audience is .

this is always a debate. It's been a debate as long as i've been an commercial broadcasting, which is due chase the audience, which I think is also like a dog chasing its tail, you're never gonna really catch them. Or do you try to create content with integrity that reflects your own personal passions? And I always kind of defaulted to the latter.

And my attitude, zi has been well, makes IT or not. And if IT doesn't well know, I see the local mccraney is hing and I I do have some experience down there so I can get on down there because obviously to make a living too. But I I really hate to chase an audience. I love that because i'm so bad at marketing, I hate to chase them on.

But but also it's like a well, I won't make a mobile site right if the form of how people are consuming the you can still do the same content that you're passion that that has integrity. But if you're like I never gonna make my website be easily consumed on mobile, then you just ignored where the audience went.

yeah. But at the same time, I do three hour pog guess right? I'm not exactly a pandering to the audience.

Let's put IT that way. I do have to do a commercial. I do have to do a commercial.

I meant to do a commercial about half an, and trying to get to IT. Let me do IT. Now we will get back to the news with a great pain.

This, this is kind of the the limits test for a great panel if I can't stop the conversation. Corry doctoral brim cola Jason hiner great panel and the conversation will continue in just a bit. Our show they brought you by flash point.

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He says ron widen has now sent letter to the fcc in the doj, saying the cola hack proves why government Mandates back doors or a terrible idea. So let me give you the background and what you suggested this story, and will let you comment on IT. The kolia act is a one thousand nine hundred and ninety four law, the communications assistance for law enforcement act.

Li free, who was the FBI director at the time, said, no, no problem with security on this Mandates. Wiretap back doors free. Reassured IT has, no, no, no, no. Well, these are going to be safe. We're going to protect them. So last week you might have heard a chinese hacking group, salt typhoon, had had access for months, or maybe even longer to the Mandate of wire tapping system inside the phone system.

and apparently are still in there.

The most recent one is, can get rid of them. So ROM widness saying these telemundo ation companies are responsible for lack cyber security and they're failure to secure their own systems. But government shares the blame because we forced them to put these surveilLance systems in with cola.

And ninety ninety four, thirty years ago, this this is why the current director of the FBI, when governments around the world, the U. K, say we need back doors and encryption. This is why it's a bad idea.

Yeah and you know that because the U. S. Is such a big fish, uh, koa is actually standard in in most Carrier great switches that are used anywhere in the world. They just build IT in because yeah.

yeah, it's it's like california mission standards.

right? You're going to build a separate car for california. Everywhere else you're going build a switch. American, every wealth.

So in greece, they were hacked in the early two thousands related to their olympic, bit like the most pennant ti crap you can imagine a and they hack the prime minister, right? They hacked all of his ministers. They hacked uh, higher levers of, uh, government, but also their largest corporations and so on. That was in the snows lakes.

And by the way, that's a very good way to pursue IT because members of congress, if they are threatened, if their privacy is threatened, we'll do something about IT. They don't care about us.

Salthill hoon was in networks all over the world. They weren't just in U. S.

networks. They were exploding clelia back doors everywhere, uh and and gathering intel. So this is like a major geopolitical issue. And you know, I D F F, we gave a prize to a paper called the keys under door mats about the problems with back doors and about the fact you necessarily a backdoor that runs on every single um Carrier. Great switch is one that lots of people know how to access, right? Like the number of of insider threats on A A A on this kind of infrastructural weakening.

Is um camp overstated? And you know when we talk about back to encrypt u and not just switches, we're really talking about the whole game because we're talking about the same encryption that's used to you know uh got against supply chain attacks when they update the firm work in your cars and tio ck breaks and also the firm where in your implanted defibrillator um it's how you talk to your broken age. It's how your you know your company does its payroll and and planning working encryption ah and requiring that all working encryption be selectively broken.

It's not going to uh, solve any problems that we can solve through other means. And what IT is gonna is introduce a systemic vulnerability is just kind of fester in the walls because the other thing here is all typhoon is the one we know about, right? But you know there is a back door. We don't know who else has gone through that back door IT would be pretty weird if the only people i've ever figured out how to break that back door was the chinese and twenty twenty four and someone who was very interested in the Green.

Well, I correct me if I want just those do like you read that you see the headlines, you think, oh, so they got into conca, so they got into A T and t but I wasn't aware of this. There's this whole like third party sort of wire tapping thing because the s peace don't wanna a do yeah this themselves.

That's right.

So there's a much larger attack surface here because there's the third parties that the I S P S. Have contracted out to to do this stuff. And did you see your target? right?

Someone we're spending a lot more money to uh to break into and put a lama energy into breaking into them and do more research, riser fishing or whatever he takes because once you're in, you get a lot right. It's it's like breaking into equifax, right? Um IT just turns out these giant tros of data are are are very valuable and sources of data that you can get the end any other way.

So is the if if we're assuming that um every I sp has has been hacked by h some foreign versa, whenever like what are they essentially we don't know that could be everything, but are they going after individual americans? Or is that a broader thing where they're looking at like military .

and like hard to say. My guess is that there's a lot of signals intelligence, which is by definition a big bulk project. So you sloping up, because most of the traffic, thankfully, is encrypted these days post snowden.

That was one of the most meaningful things that change. You know, F, F, we stood up, lets encrypt, and we brought up the amount of S, S L, R T, L, syncytial to traffic on the web from a very small number to nearly all of IT now. So there's not much that they're getting, uh, in terms of the payloads, but they are getting all the signals intelligence.

So they're seeing all the headers. They know who's moving around. They can watch the traffic and they can make a lot of inferences.

And we know metadata is hugely that yeah and you can .

buy now with other kinds of attacks like I was just thinking in the other day. If you said I want to target ads to people under forty who graduated from a big ten or ivy in politics or law within a mile of congress, you would just get the entire congressional staffer group and if you could slip A A piece of malicious a advertising into into that, you could malverton ze to every congressional staffer. You d get a few of them at the very minimum.

Well, just by the way, look at what elon mosque is doing with targeting advertising. I don't even know how that's legal.

although he's kind of there is just a story today that like at least twenty five percent of the checkers they had from people who said they did voter out reach for long musk uh and that must build the trade of a lot of fraud or that don't know he built a trun campaign for IT. I think it's a pack.

So but he built this is amErica pec but he spent seventy five million dollars on that yeah yeah.

But if it's just leaving one hand and going in the other, right like if he's got if paying door knockers who are aren't to but he's just making up the door locker activity that I might just be a way of launder ing money, you know, around and around. I think all of the numbers about .

that musk tall is. Yeah, just he's he's offering a million dollar prize if you sign a petition, approved petition. Yeah, but apparently means he doesn't understand how petitions work because that completely invalidates through the petition.

Yeah.

like if you have a million dollar Price for people, sign IT, then everybody he's gonna sign IT, they don't care.

Well, I like what the the folks at a hard against humanity have done, where he's also like a fillip fee of like forty six dollars if you send someone to his website. So there there are paying people to make a voting plan, who are progressive leaning people in swing states to make a voting plan, which is the thing you can just buy.

And there in their literature, in their notes on this, in the FAQ, IT says, like we know, that's horrible and gross is not awful that we should really fix this, uh, but they will pay you to make a plan. Uh, and then they ask you, if you want na donate to this, you can donate to them and as a premium to send you a set of twenty twenty four election cards against humanity cards. But you can also do this thing work if you live in one of these swing states, you can also sign up for alien musk uh pack with their um code and and he'll send them another forty six dollars in a fillip fees that they will use to target more left leaning voters in swing states to actually make voting plans. And they're doing real stuff unlike, you know, the kind of weird fraud grafted stuff that that muscular doing.

He did win a Victory in the eu. The the eu has ruled that x is not important. This actually probably for elon, knowing his sensitive ego is not a win. They decided that the ax is not important enough to have to worry about fairness in the eu.

But they did say that they can pierce the limited liability veil and seek to time the finding him for failure to comply, where that fine is like five percent of global turn over a ten percent.

oh yeah. And may include basics and tesla .

problem like they did in brazil yeah yeah.

The way that american limited liability works. It's not like universal. And no one came down off a stone amount with two stone tablets and said, you know, this is the one through waited to limited liability is a lot of different systems around the world as elon musk is just covering to us enormous to me. It's again, you love to see IT.

To be clear, what we're saying is they might find a spaceship and tesla and whoever five percent of revenues or or whatever whatever they think that they need to get out of twitter for or sorry, x for for fines that they would go.

It's a it's interesting in your right. It's just because of what we consider affair is not as widely adopted. But IT does feel like you're punish ed like because elan mask owns all these companies. If you want to punish h on, you have to find all .

these companies. So it's a levine had a calm or the newsletter this week about that where in a sense he would say, yes, everyone says, oh, these are five different companies with different shareholder, different? No, but the boards overlap. And then any time that one company needs workers, elon.

shuffle.

And so he was making the argument that you you could pierce the veil legally, even here, if you say things like that. Well, that these three board members are also on these three companies. And this tesla worker was working at spacesuits yesterday and boring company today. And so are they .

really premium memory? Is elon ABS or x although tech ranch calls IT, elan.

musk x and .

I guess .

witter t .

witter .

to all in its privacy .

actually, just so you guys know, I don't like IT being called twitter because we take twitter with twitter. So i'm happy to call a vex and I would encourage you to do the same.

The porn industry would like a word though about that use of X.

X is the worst. It's like everyone picks up. You cannot find something on the internet with name is perfect. The man thought .

the main name in one thousand nine hundred and ninety eight.

and he is not going to let IT go.

My name a bird, men, people. I have an idea for a pund, for a car or campaign. They spend the next like ten years doing IT. And it's funny and charming.

But when it's like the whole internet, not so much like I have a camp who had this idea that like you could make a bus uh with a kind of zeppelin made of L D on top and you could drive IT around the lial night playing heavy rock and you could call IT the L D. zeeland. And that's all he's done for the last five years, has make the L D. ampler.

And it's an amazing art car and that's great, right? He had upon he made IT his whole lifework. It's super great. But like he didn't do IT to a thing. Three hundred million .

people were used, like, if you want, went to disease.

One doesn't go to burning man, right? Yeah.

I think he's gone a few time. I seems like IT would be natural place for him.

I am sure he's got I mean, it's eighty thousand. Well, was a lot smaller last year, but at its peak, at eighty thousand people, there's as many different burning men. You know, there's like dozens of different ways to be a burning man. The the way where you go to a turn key camp and yoga bones give you messages and you don't have to do anything .

and that's often in the corner there that's not someone's doing that.

And i'm coral made of luxury tour buses in our views with security guards and those people can Frankly just you know die. But but you know that's not what we do when we go. We have a good time, which I run a bus made with a giant, implemented else on time of playing heavy rock.

Anyway, elan musk x is changing as privacy policy to allow third parties to train AI in your posts. You have to go and turn IT off if you don't like IT. This follows a trend everywhere.

Read its do everybody's doing IT right? And it's a good way to make money. You may just want to know bad that I mean, we're honestly and I can't get all upset about IT because this has been the point of twitter all along, is to monodist your contributions.

right? That's not why people are leaving right now though.

Well, the other reason they're leaving is because he's turned off blocking or changed the rules for blocking. What what rules is that live now?

Do we know that? I don't know.

He said he was going to do IT.

Yeah, i've gotten the warning a couple times. And grant, I just don't know that it's actually gone in a place yet. I saw that IT was happening. But yeah.

right. X will soon late. This is from forbes, which is not always my first choice, but anyway, actual soon let users see, tweet from people who block them. So in other words, if I didn't want brian a color to see my exes.

I don't want to see my seats.

know anything .

that's extremely I don't want. If I don't .

want you to see my seats, I would block you. But that used to work, but now according to x there they're gona change that. They have been done that yet. They enacted wednesday. For those with public account blocking, user will stop that person from engaging with your post but will not stop them from viewing your post, which presumable means even if you're not logged in or no.

there's very little you can do these days .

on twitter when you're you can see that if the right people are upset about IT and in fact it's IT has been said that people are flocking the blue sky as a result, blue sky said to half a million new users in one day when ex made that announcement .

yeah that seems about right. I mean, that's the that you know that the thing is that the initial ation equal librarian, like the thing that they're looking for is to have just enough value in IT that people feel like they can't leave. But any surplus value that they are either for like business customers or end users that hasn't gone to shareholders, is like value that that they need to figure out a claw way, right? That's the point.

If you don't I don't even know they were trying to reach and certification equal liver. I thought they were just given up and said, let's I freeze every penny of this well.

But I think that if you're gonna freeze every penny out of IT, then you have to rely on people not leaving, right? Because then you can freeze pennies out of IT.

Then it's done. It's killing the goose that laid the gold and ex, so they're trying to keep the goose alive while extracting maximum eggs.

So it's a very brittle equilibrium because like the difference between I hate this place and I can't and I wish I could leave and I hate this place and i'm never coming back, it's just like it's literally if you if you've done IT right, you've got people right on that threshold and then something bad happens and everyone bolts for the exit.

And the thing about network fex driven, look in, right? We're you're there because you like the other people who are there and there there because they like you is that once some of you start to leave, you can get the opposite of a network affects snowball, which is like the network affect on winning or it's like what I was here because I like leo leos gone. I'm leaving.

You know, we had a conversation, leo, million years ago when facebook announced that they were going to ignore the poll results, when they they pull users and ask whether they should claw back, or rather they should roll back the the privacy policy change they had made where they were gna start spying on people after promising they wouldn't and then they did a poll and the user said, no, don't do that. And they said, what we think you guys are are probably confused about what we want to do. So we're gonna have and do IT anyway.

And I resigned my facebook account that day like, you need to come on twitter and talk is about IT. And I had logged into facebook in a long time, so is a really easy decision. But they were like four thousand friend requests in my, you know friend zone when I was when I resign that account.

And I looked at that, I was like, there's four thousand people who are on facebook, in part because I do think i'm here. Yeah right. And so I should not be here and and I can leave at a very low cost. I can't leave facebook at a low cost or twitter low cost.

Yeah, I would lose A A really important channel for getting people out for my tours, for selling my books basically like I wouldn't able to put my kid through college and so, you know, I would love to be off twitter and i'm not going to join blue sky. Until they federate because, you know, twitter was started by friends of mine and I trusted them a lot. And I was one of their very first users.

And you know, I was the user when you could get IT only by S M. S. And you know, some of them went nuts and some of them sold out and now is a terrible place. And i'm just like not going to be in any place that I can't leave ever again because they liked people to abuse you.

I know that people have talked about this endlessly, but what do you think of the death of a thousand cuts in terms of like the death of a thousand sub niches, for example, again.

black twitter.

Or i'm going to use special example of, like I said, I am a huge a english soccer fan. And after the riots, what was at two or three months ago in the summer, and elan made comments, all of my english soccer twitter folks, not all of them, but a huge percentage of them, move to threads. And we're like, we're done with this. Now i've seen that happen, as lio saying, with specific needs and there's different threshold for different things. Um there has to be a tipping point at some point where i'm not saying that twitters ever get up x is ever gone to die necessarily.

There is the argument though that if all the good people move out of the neighborhood and there's no chance of saving, but as long as corry doctor s on ecx, maybe there's a chance of saving in. Well.

that's why everything that I post to twitter, it's pasi right post on site show everywhere. Everything I post to twitter is available somewhere else. You can get IT all as like an our access feed by on the web, on masted, on on tumbler, on on medium, you know, on discourse.

There's like a million different ways to get IT. And and the ones that I control, our add free tracker, free analysis s free. I don't know, many people subscribed to my maning less. I got no numbers from my website.

nothing. It's interesting people use the nazi bar analogy. But really, this isn't a nazi bar because you it's it's more poorer than that because of what? Because of possy, because of what you're doing.

Well, i'm just you know if if I had my way, we d have on twitter what we had on facebook in the early days. So facebook had a service where you could give IT your log in in password and IT would log into my spaces. You and I would scrape all the message is waiting for you and put them in your facebook time life.

reply to them and would, I think would .

be to .

living glowing .

rubble. But um you know what was sauce with the gust should be sauce for the gander, right? You know, kind of ever cereal. Interpret ability is historical. How people escape with from incident .

that's the way a government can intervene yeah in all of these things is just requiring interactions ability.

Well, we were talking before about like the rush time line for opening up the APP, the google APP store. I I kind of agree that november feels aggressive because I do care about user safety and there are legitimate user safety issues associated with opening up the absa. I just don't think they're in amount.

I think that maybe they probably do need some more time in the eu there. They're Mandating into ability for a whole variety services. But instead of starting with social media, they are starting with the end to end encysted messaging, which again, I just think it's like a huge misstep because first of all, they wanted to do IT very quickly. And if you introduced mistakes and to and encysted messaging that is federated across all the major platforms, you are introducing a vulnerability into all the platforms. So if you make a mistake in a federation layer between google messages, apple messages, what's happened, whatever, you make an error that exposes all those users to risk, uh, and I think that, you know, they could really harm people, and not just harm people, but harm the project of interact. I really wish they were starting with social media, which is much lower stakes and I think much simpler and also there isn't a huge constituency of law force in europe who want to break social media and there is a giant european law enforcement constituency who've always hated social media, uh, intending cypher and would love IT if there was a vulnerability introduced to this process. And they're gona have their fingers in the pie.

right? I was encouraged by mac magic joining the board at blue sky. Blue sky does have a federation protocol, but the only path of federates .

right now is that some of the content moderation, right, which is good, that's really important.

They have been moving slowly towards federation. I'm going to give them credit for they say they want to federate threads. Now he does infect support activity pub and does federate with mastered on. Does that make threads, threads, preferable to you?

Yeah, though even more preferable is just staying on master so that the p threads can follow me, yes, even Better.

Yeah yeah. I mean, I I actually hope blue sky makes IT, but for for the once we are streaming and there are four hundred forty seven people watching us on x right now, and i'm very happy about that. Although there's like as you say, every number that deal and comes up with this suspect, I think that, that number always goes up and never goes down, which tells me it's a cumulative number of all the people off.

They're just can't the people who have tuned in at any given time, do we want x to go away? Or do we want x to get Better? Or do we care .

at some point? Elon mosque is gonna lose interest. I think you know that he has A, A, A history .

of might very well .

could be um at some point he's gone to lose interest. Um he's going to not gonna waste his time on this and he's gna you know sell IT off to the lowest.

But he does right now have a bully puppet there, does he? Not sure. And I have some concerns. My nightmare scenario is a disputed election on november fifth that then elon uses this bully puppet and but be many others who will, including Robert murdoch and fox, to destabilize our democracy yeah.

that is a serious risk as a real .

i'm very concerned about more than these stabilizer democracy actually fuel violence. yes. And I worry about that. I think that that's that's but I don't know what we can do about IT, but I just really scares because I don't think elan is in his right .

mind at this point whether or not IT was a good financial investment.

You have no is a terrible financial .

investment. You have to have elan credit for understanding that this platform to this day, even if IT has there's been A D asper that's going out. Maybe it's not the doesn't punch with the weight that I did in two thousand sixteen or whatever.

Um IT still has the capacity to set the conversation and so if his IT was in his interest to whether politically he believes in Donald tramp er or whatever, if he wants to have more influence over who is in the next government or to have the bully pulpit or we were to set the conversation, you have to give him credit for seeing what the street didn't see because IT was a wound. Deduct that that people thought was a feeling company and that that people also continued to uh consider to be sort of like the the children's table at at media, which even after him sort of hobbling IT still isn't. It's still incredibly powerful. I think he saw the power.

I was very obvious that power was there. And I think he saw the power, and I don't think he was, look, the guys on paper worth almost a trillion dollars, losing forty four billion dollars, especially since was able to finagle banks at the barrow lending him behalf of that yeah is not a huge cost for gaining what he did gain, which is an incredible number of people who will laugh at his dad jokes.

I think that's true. And I think although obviously a forced liquidation of his twitter holdings with of his tesla holdings to make a margin call would be really bad for and caste through a lot of .

his other how how would that happen?

So if he has to, if like they want their interest payment and he can make IT because twitter didn't have IT and he staked his tesla stock is collared, although forced the liquidation and forcing a mass liquidation of tesla stock with tank tesla share Price. And so that would be really bad for him. That would be really bad for his future at tesla. Might empower his board to finally do what if you've trying to do and kick him .

out and so on. Just I want isn't the board is A A tame board, is not a time board.

Well, I mean the board can be replaced, right because the the shareholders many shareholders yeah I want to go back to the thing you said before about um do we want x to fail so you know if if you've seen the documentary, uh fidler on the roof.

if I yeah so you know the tragedy .

of that movie, it's not that they like um that aneta is a good place to live, right like the basic plot of of a filler on the roof is every fifteen minutes the coax right through and kick of everyone right so so if this is not a good place to live but they're there because they love each other and the reasoning ending is tragic when they're all like, okay, we're leaving in a tepco because the arrest kick the jews out uh and you know i'm going to chicago and you're going to new york and he's going to crack of and we're just never gone to see each other again.

Like nominally, you think leaving a place where you get the of you every fifteen minutes would be a happy ending but the fact is that they're gna lose each other. Yeah, right. And so I I don't care if if if twitter succeeds or survives, right? But you know how many communities were lost forever when live journal liquidated, right? Or or became what I became today? Russian hell.

Do you think twitter is anathema?

Yeah, twitter is anathema.

That really take is and this zar is elon.

Yeah elon is this r you need to write an article .

code .

that's great. I think that's the best take i've .

heard yeah and cat heard is .

the coach and trip is one of the people we love. We lost yeah drill. I mean, not drill drill.

L wow. That you know what? You just justified sticking around well.

except, you know it's like IT would be Better if we could just leave, right? So like IT doesn't have to be an ata, right? Like my grandmother was a soviet refugee when he left.

SHE lost touch with her family for fifteen years. My dad has this memory of being in the kitchen, in the phone rings, and my grandmother starts crying, say, mom, mom. SHE didn't know her mother was alive or dead.

Back in line in grad. And you know like I grew up in toronto, I then move to 3Frances go， where I met you. And then I moved to london.

And then I moved to L. A. And then I moved to london and I moved to L A.

And I kept on my stuff and i'm in touch with my family and it's not a big deal. And like I go home to toronto for I was just there for my brother's wedding. Like its fine. Like I didn't have an anatta ending so we can have like we can turn this this fortress where he's holding us hostage into like A A, A place where we can just leave when we want to go. And not only will that force him to treat us Better if he's being rational, but if he's not being rational, which is the thing that I think is very likely that we can just leave.

But that's your point, why that you always want to be able to take the people you love, you love you with you, you don't want to have to leave them yeah .

and you don't have to make the hard choice right? Is that the people I love, the the business i've built, my ability to send my kid to college or is IT um you know that my sanity and leaving the nai bar uh and you know that's the biggest problem of ani bar analogy is like you can leave a nazi bar and IT doesn't cost you anything. You and all your friends can just go a postings with the group chat saying, oh, it's a naughty bar now you can catch us at the non nazi bar across town. But there is no way to coordinate that, although technically there's no reason there shouldn't be because this is something computers would be incredibly good at.

And as you said, you you make your living on x and so the energy to the nazi bar is i'm the one that has big bug counter. I put big bug counter in your bar and so IT became a nazis AR. But I still need to put my kids through college by putting i'm a vender to your bar.

right? I don't know what big buck counter is.

A vio game. It's a video .

game where yeah a light gun where you shoot. Dear, that's right. OK, hey, listen, I was a Better tender in the early two thousand and first anode that maybe .

doesn't I like IT? I like IT or or or could be the extra and concession you get the idea, oh, have bad.

That bar have the person, have the person .

that comes in on wednesday and does karoo. And that using those people were contracted out.

Big book on our dog com, ladies and gentlemen, the big book on our world championships eighteen or coming .

up IT was a huge game in the early two thousand.

That's all I can tell you. You can go to joes on weed street, chicago.

IT was a magical time.

You're watching this week in tech with a great panel. Corry doctor brian mccollum was a host of the new red red history history.

yes.

from the eighties and the nineties and city. That's editor and chief the guy at the top, mr. Jason hiner.

Our show today brought you by thinking, angry. Oh, I love these guys. I've got one over here.

It's a honey pot, looks just IT, looks like a USB external USB drive, a little black box, got a power connection and either connection. But it's not it's something a bad guy will look at and go tasty. A hot part IT can be deployed easily. And if someone is inside your network, you will know.

And that is so important, that is so valuable on average, companies don't know that somebody has intruded into their network for ninety one days, that three months a bad guy can use to expand, trade all your private information, to look around where all your back ups are, so that when they trigger rans somewhere, you'll never be able to get back online three months because you never figured out they were in there. Now picture yourself with a few things, canaries sprinkled around these little black boxes. They can make files, lower files that looks just like PDF or dogs, or spread sheet or whatever, spread them around.

And when a bad guy tries to open one of those files, or brute force, fake internal S S H server, your thinks canary will immediately tell you, eh, we had a problem. There are no fossil ler, just the alerts that matter. Now, I said, S S H server.

But your things can, eric, can be easily. You get a console in a drop down menu. You can figure to look like any number of things, minds a snooty as you can make you a linux box.

You could turn on all the services like a Christmas. Just have a few choice services that, you know, bad guys cannot avoid that they will jump at you leave port one thirty nine up and see what happens. It's fantastic.

So I want you to check this out thinked kenyans, you choose a profile for your thinks kiner. You registered with the hosted console. You get monitoring and notifications, by the way, very flexible, hundreds of different devices that can be everything from a windows machine to escalade device to.

And when I say it's in person inferences, this anodes gen in s, you would never able to know. The difference is its macadam is a annotation gy mac address that it's got dsm seven login. It's exactly like a snowing as the only differences.

When they try to log in, you're going to get a notification in any form you like email, ms, text messaging ah IT supports web hooks. IT supports this log. They have an API if you want to write your own.

So you set up the things canaries and then you wait an attacker who's breached your network, or by the way, malicious insiders, any other adversary inside your network will make themselves known. It's just if they can't resist by accessing that thin canary. Now let me give you an idea.

pricing. You can go to canary that tools slash to its that tools slashed. Twit, for about seventy five hundred box a year, you're going get five years.

Now if you're big Operation, you may have hundreds. Small Operation, you might have a handful that save five, seventy five other box a year. You get your own hosted console, you get your upgrade support maintenance.

I'm going to tell you two important facts of to add onto this. If you use the offer code to IT in that, how did you hear about this box? You're gona get ten percent off right off the top and that's for life.

And here's another thing going to reassure you if you go well, that sounds goodness, but I don't know you can always return your things canaries for you have a two months sixty day money back guarantee for a full refund. So so there's no risk at all. But I do have to tell you, we've been talking about things, canary, from more than I think seven years, that refund d guarantee has never been claimed.

No one, not once. And we have sold a lot of things can is people love these guys effect, if you go to, can that tool slash love, you'll see of a love that be people go crazy over these C A N A Y dock tools slash twitter. Don't forget the twit in the how to bus box for ten percent off for life can marry the tools slash to IT.

Know we always say security is a layer proposition. You've probably got great permited offences. But what do you have to tell you if somebody he's penetrated is now inside your network?

That's why you need a thinked canary, canary, that tools slashed to IT. We think of so much you're supporting this week in tech. One more e onter. I can't resist.

I just want to know, can your things can only be a warper emulator at a war game? So we found a nice show.

We play a game. I don't know. I'm going i'm going to right to them and say, I want wapper wp. R.

I just like you're talking and all the proms are online so you can like, I want to play maximum iceland scenario.

Love IT. I have somewhere. I have the sound effects from that movie. I try not to am very tempted.

I have a very rich library of goofy sound effects that I created way back when for Johnny to org, because he has no attention span. And so he would get so bored. And we did the radio show. So I gave him a bunch of stuff so that he wouldn't get too bored. And and I still have a few of those, I think.

or on C2Burak adh d mem orial sou nd boa rd.

exactly. And he and the thing is he would drop .

them at random.

That's one of my favorites, actually military to me, definitely military, probably classified too. Okay, you sorry, you brought IT up now cry. I don't I don't think you can do that with with a canary sings canary.

But I should suggest that to them they do. You know, it's like I put like little spread sheet around and say things like employee payroll information, things like that. You know that stuff modern, modern hackers can resist.

I guess you could put like a eighth grade class grades do not change something like that. The us. Is now, I have to say, I drove ve a tesla.

When I drove a tesla of model X, I used full self. Well, they didn't have full self driving yet, but I used the drivers stuff. Occasionally I would drift off, start to drive into a median state or something.

But I was, I was never like in the back seat kitting. I was always with my hands on the wheel looking, and I just was gently nudged back into between the lines and so forth. Tesla has been promoting the idea that has full self driving, and there have been four crashes.

So the us. Auto nizza, the national highway transportation and safety administration, it's a has on friday opened an investigation into all two point four million teslas equipped with ff three after those reported collisions, including a fatal crash. Uh last year, I know I you know my I have bmw that drives itself and I same thing I pay attention 的 内容， you know and and I pay and I keep my hands near the wheel. You don't have to have IT on the wheel.

but that's but that's level two.

It's level too. Yeah, now the problem is more a marketing, in my opinion, a marketing problem that he an is promising more than I can do. And there are some some foolish tesla drivers who are trusting IT more than you're supposed to, right? I mean, look, in the time there have been those four accidents, there are probably been forty thousand accidents with human driven vehicles, maybe four hundred thousand. I don't know.

I guess the point is that is this isn't just about disciplining tesla or or taking care of the drivers who are foolish enough to believe tesla. It's also about the harm to bystanders, right? Like that is, you know, these are not single driver involved collisions.

These are things where other people are harmed or even killed and are harmed or killed because the world is full of people who have a variety of degrees of gradually, especially when there comes to the pronouncement of this very famous, charismatic billionaire who's had lots and lots impressed about being the smartest st. Man in the world, and disney made a mind man and all the rest of IT. And and then he goes around, he goes on stage, and he says, this is full self driving.

You know, your car will drive itself from los Angeles to new york, and you won't even have to put your hands on the wheel once, and it'll charge itself and blab a blah and someone goes, well, you know, must said, if so and that person's dumb and maybe that person has some culpable, but it's not that person who suffers. It's the person they run over and killed that suffers. And so that's why we we have rules and we have, uh, national highway traffic safety .

bureau also would impact his plans for a cyber cab because he would have to get nitzsch val to do that yeah.

it's nowhere close. The cymer cab in robot taxi, you know is nowhere close, right? Twenty twenty seven and and full discovery. I own a tela. I have since twenty twenty one .

and you don't let IT drive if you pay attention.

My god, I know I would never right, like put my hands off IT. And I, but I do remember when autopilot right.

came out two in you. Well, I I did, yeah.

no, I did IT. But what? Auto pilot, that was what you were talking .

about early.

I and and people weren't doing that.

They're taking a nap and try to all .

the reasons for all the reasons that cory said what one of the things where I think that this is really been as a failure of, you know, a government failure, then calling IT autopilot and being and not being sued for that, being calling IT full self for self driving. Now they got supervised driving, but being a well, to get away with that, and not as false advertising .

IT IT is the absolute D.

I has to be duty .

to take diction.

So the fact they've been able to get away with that leads to what I think what corry is talking about, which is that then people believe that they say, if it's out there and and you can buy IT and IT must be true. IT must be true.

Did you I remember when I was a kid, I guess I was maybe one of those gradualist people you're talking about. Corry, I remember we used to say, well, it's on a commercial that has to be true. They can't lie. Was that ever true that they couldn't lie?

I mean, IT remains broadly true. It's not as well regulator as IT used to be. Some of that was was down to there being a kinds special zone, uh uh, in relation to the first moment that had to do with the public airwaves.

right? So a lot of people, so this is not broadcast for the most part anymore. You don't have the same control.

Sometimes get people saying that we should restore the fairness doctrine. And there are lots of problems with that. I mean, first dot wit wasn't cover as they think IT was, but also IT only applied to tourists.

Al broadcast, right? right. By all means, apply the fairness doctor for all the good it's going to get you. It's not going to reach in the people you are worried about. First, remember.

is the fox news is not on broadcast or but that's not .

how most people are getting them right? Yeah and you know it's it's some you're not going to be able to get the the fairness doctor on on private wires uh because it's pride there isn't the same computer to meet yeah I .

hope I going to hide something so that hopefully this doesn't bounce back on them. But I have a very close friend, and they are a chief scientist that a is called a biotech company. But let's PHD level. And they told me recently this past week that, oh yeah, I drive with hands off all the time, full self driving, I said all the time and they said, yeah, every day going to and from work and I was like, okay, I thought you were a smart.

My bmw does not require me to put my hands on the wheel. T they have a feature where this seems dangerous. IT says, you know, it's faster in the other lane.

If you just check your mirrors will will move over there. And if you're looking at your mirrors, IT goes in zip ssotia, but it's got a camera looking at my eyes. And if I pick my nose or drink a drink, IT says you're not paying attention IT will make you really alerts me. And there are times when the road becomes confusing to IT, that is that that beeps loudly and flash red lights, saying, grab the wheel. So I for on won't do IT on the local road.

And I think the highway makes the highway makes way more sense. yeah. But the way I was described to me is they seem to be fully convinced that this was one hundred percent. And I was thinking in my head, I might do this for ten minutes or fifteen minutes, but on the highway, on a highway as an experiment, but I wouldn't be doing that every day.

Well, part of the problem is, if you're not paying attention fully, there is a second or two that that takes you to kind of rock what's going on and respond and so that second or two can kill you because you're not pay you not painfully paying attention someone or well, you're right, in fact. So that's to open this investigation because IT seems that these crashes happen where full self driving was engaged during reduced roadway visibility. I'm reading from a voter story like sn lare fog or airborn dust in a pedestrian was killed in arizona november of last year after being struck by a twenty twenty one tesla model y um so you're write that pedestrian did not sign off on fsd did not agree to be a beta tester for eland's driving skills I don't .

want to be enrolled in a self regulated full self driving experiment held by an auto company right like that, that I opt out of that. Thank you.

And that's one reason doing only on the highway is probably a good idea because they're very if you're pedestrian in the free way.

you got other problems. I mean, but I can also cause iraq involving another vehicle that is a separate set of problems. You know in in automation theory, there's this idea of centres and reverse centres.

So cento is someone who has to do something, and part of the hard work is being done by the computer. So you know, you're the human body on top of the the the horse's body. But the reverse centres, the other way round, it's one like the the robot uses you to do some task that I can do. So like you know, that would be like you having full sale, driving in your car and your card does some of the stuff that that humans aren't good add in terms of being attentive, like the thing or h at you when you take your hands off the White, whatever.

or to run into something and yeah.

i've got a much less fancy car. But IT IT tells me if there's something in my blind when I turned on.

my signal is, yeah, think that's good and I read me too.

I've missed, i've forgotten to do a blind spot check more than once in my life that I love having that future.

But if you're an amazon driver, uh, you know your eyeballs are being monitored while you drive and it's like docking your pay if he doesn't like the way you use your ebs and also if your mouth is open and that looks like maybe you're singing, they dock your pay and you have no singing yeah and you have to meet a certain quota that involves driving really dangerously. And but if they catch you driving dangerously, then they docked your pay again. And like that's a reverse centres.

And I think when we think about this automation, it's really important to like ask yourself, like is the human helping the robot? Is the robot helping the person? Because that's really the difference between nightmare .

and and I taught my amazon driver to feel free to sing at all time. See.

imagine if your boss came by when you're on your own, working at home or in your car and said, you know, look part no singing, this is an a quiet practice.

And ana, is that a lot? The chat constantly, they do not like when I sing, right? Quick break here, and we will have more with our eem panel you're watching this week.

In tech or show they brought you by net sweet. What is the future hold for business? When you ask nine experts, you'll get ten answers. Rates or rise or rates of fall inflations up or it's down. If somebody invents a Crystal al ball, we'll let me know.

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So they know you saw here that sweet dot com slash to IT, a french, a french court has this will will be interest and see how this plays out. Has ordered blanket blocks of porn sites. They have fifteen days to implement age controls.

Now this is a historically a very chAllenging thing to do without violating the privacy of everybody involved, including the adults involved. I'll be very curious how this plays out in france. Any thoughts anything is saying age age verification is historically difficult.

Yeah I I mean, I think the main way that people in envision doing this is through something like a credit card. And you know there's there's a way to think about that, which is that you then end up producing a sort by net worth list of everyone's thinks just like you know you're just asking for for blackmail. Um you know there are coptos ers who talk about less invasive ways of doing that like maybe you have an authentic cator who knows that you're over eighteen and who issues you a token but doesn't know how you use that token and that you present that credential and just says i'm over eighteen and that's all IT is. Of course, IT doesn't stop you from providing IT to someone else and so that makes the whole project kind of point less, because you can imagine the kids are going to figure out how to get IT share.

You're token with me, man. exactly. Yeah, just like a driver's license is always prevented kids from buying liquor, right?

Yes, except you on't even have to show the the license to a person who can tell you a team. You just gonna to token there. The market .

for token be huge.

Yeah yeah. And there's a kind of intriguing possibility, which is that you um create uh uh uh system of voluntary marking where porn sites use media ata to mark their site as orn and then you have a parental control that says, I am not going to uh allow this.

I prefer that. I think that's up to the I give putting the power in the ends of the parents to me seems the right way to hand on a lot of these issues yeah.

I think so too. And I think that I won't work perfectly. And I think that the illusion is that the other other the other thing will that that you know making everyone have an age verification token will.

And I think that that we're not comparing something that works with on the dozen work. We're comparing two things that are flawed in their own ways at achieving the not terrible objective of helping parents help their kids look at the stuff that uh, you know is appropriate to their age. And there is no one great solution to that, you know. But but we can minimize the collateral damage.

There is, of course, a gold rush of companies claiming they can do age verification. And i'm sure .

a lot can do .

with A I don't do you know there that can look at you until you what your .

ages and coin, which is it's not .

just a world. This is sam, almost weird, start up where you especially if you're in a developing nation and you'd like some world coin, can walk up to this orb and give IT your iris and become part of some sort of network of h nights. Sh, the stop, an network of identification. They have a new version of the orb now powered by NVIDIA mean.

good night. Have written something this, no, it's like that has five times .

the I performance also uses fewer parts. The venture says the new orbar allow for a broader rollout, including self service key oases.

So to me, the the most interesting thing about this is they're not saying coin anymore because that is just not like a magic drifter word anymore. yeah.

So now we've got new A I is the magic gift. Ter, word of the moment, this, the three.

can we use IT in the metaverse?

Do you feel unsafe going to world that org? Like just don't .

look into the or whatever, don't meet the orbs. I win. Amp is in a little bit of trouble of just, I have a soft spot for win amp. I interviewed.

I interviewed Justin Frankl on the internet history podcast years ago.

There is history, right? right? So in fact, that would be a good red history episode because I was nineties. When did win APP come out?

IT was before an absence. So like ninety eight, ninety seven.

maybe earlier than that. I remember it's actually. So I was working in msm c, the site in ninety, ninety five.

And a friend of mine who was a kid said, leo, all the college kids now are sharing music. They are putting up servers with this new thing called mp three on them. And I actually, in one thousand and eighty five, went on net. m. Sbc told solidity, a brian, about this new technology called the mp three.

So i'm thinking when I probably was next couple of years, right? Mp three IT was an mp three player, had visualizations and IT really kicked the lamas bud did just to explain what that means, what to the lamas, right? By the way, released in one .

thousand nine hundred ninety seven. But wikipedia doesn't tell me when in nineteen ninety, but there is an internet, has we pack as somewhere on the web where he would have told me so we first, yeah next.

Winnie is owned by a belgian company apply named the law group. And they thought to be a good idea, open source the code. So they they put the so called legacy player code on github on september twenty force.

Less than a month later, it's been entirely deleted because the license was was not exactly collaborate. You may not distribute modified versions of this software, and only maintainers of the official repository lab distribute the software. So IT wasn't open source.

Justin Frankel actually was asked about IT. He said that even if he had some desired to open source, the license terms are completely absurd in the way they are written. They're terrible.

No, thank you. But also on the short cast software, which they don't have a license to, was included in IT. So gest, who wrote showcase, may not have been thrilled about that large portions of other projects code was included in the repository.

They may have leaked the source code for shop cast server software. They just deleted IT, by the way, which means instead of rebasing IT, which means if you know how that works, it's nothing's ever deleted. So it's still kind of they apparently, they were also prepared to packages of entire in microsoft. Too bad because I really love the idea of using winning APP to play mp three. I was pleased when they rereleased in twenty, in nineteen or something.

The I remember at one point you saying that you had enough mp theories, and you are talking about the ones that you the number of songs you had that would take you like three lifetimes. You couldn't listen to all of them if you listen to them continuously throughout lifetimes.

That's because I went to napster.

Everything is is the statue of limitations.

Past is is safe to reveal no yes .

okay okay.

Large old rick is not going to come to my door and beat me with his dream.

明白 to say with all react。

But um I you know .

I have a framework laptop, one of these users of the frame ah and they they upgraded mother board again. And so i've got my old mother board and there is a cooler master case can build a bookshelf PC. I'm going to build a black server and stick on my M P three on IT and I can be able to .

use them again with my, my, so s brutal. Hey.

they released a new samba this week.

Yeah, full me one. Shame on me. Forming Price. We don't get fooled again. Just like George bush told us.

i'll never buy that the sonus product if they apparently, they're having trouble selling their headphones as well, mostly because their .

software so bad. Oh my god, I camp. So my my new sonus trc is IT turns itself on in the middle the night the backyard speakers.

And that's what you like. Why is there music playing in the backyard? God knows.

Oh, but if what you wanted to do is play a song right now, five seconds for now. impossible.

right? Be impossible.

Oh my god. We actually.

we figured out that the ono's ams know had a butch of in ceiling speakers at the sono campus in our house. We're sending gigabits a broadcast pack. It's throughout the network killing IT. I couldn't figure out why the show was just stopping in the middle, finally figured that out and .

took the amps off .

IT was the sono IT was the sonos .

yeah our audience is love. So no is like it's been a long time think and it's been really interesting how IT is just .

completely flipped. IT was so cool and that we all had eighteen months ago.

two years ago, if you had said what what are you most passionate about, brian, do one of those things. Whats in your house? Whats in your bag? Whatever I won't been like, yeah, obviously so does is how I listen to music and like the craziness with how that they would ve destroyed that is.

is there anything to take its place? Is there anything that like .

is the next apple has a thing?

I think apple, in fact, they say, and german says that the next year, apple going to reenter the home kit market with a new, improved, Better than ever. I have just as much trouble with theory, to be honest. I will talk to syria.

And in one room, there's a little home pot in in the corner here and should respond here for some reason. It's just annoying as well. Uh, let's see. Are you going to buy A A color kindle? I'm guessing curry that you do not use kindles.

I don't not because they're proprietary because ultimately most things are preparatory, but because I don't like reading long form off screens like paper.

huh?

Yeah I don't want, I don't want to have to like exercise the monk like self discipline to stop myself from hiding all tab and seeing a guy I put a lemon up his nose on tiktok.

I wanted people like.

I just wanted to like, have a thing that does nothing. But I don't .

think you can watch tiktok on your kindle.

I think you can probably do distracting things on your can.

You can do distracting things. Yeah, they now have some color. I actually got the libra cobo color and you know color on he is very washed out. This looks much Better than IT really is.

It's very washed out. And and they said that they did a lot of things to make the refresh Better and all that good stuff to get back to my.

this is panels panel work, by the way, he former chief at microsoft for windows and hardware. Es, now IT is interesting .

that they finally did color now, after all these years after he he came in. But if you to go back to what's what's in brain's bag, what's his favorite gudin? I live on my kindle, and the thing that is killing me is that they're killing the oasis. So now you have no kindles without physical page turn button.

And every time I say bo.

every time I say this, people are like, why is that so important? Well, because to lift up your finger, to turn a page, I will. But brian, if you turn a page on a regular book, you ve got, I know, but if you can just leave your thumb on the device and not have to tap the screen a thousand times when you're reading a book, and that's why .

switched to cobo. And thanks to a calibre or calibre, I was able to move all my amazon books over. And now I had .

buttons again. I also kindle asis. I ish don't do because for the same reason, the physical buttons Better. But I didn't when I bought IT, I did not get the cellar version and now they don't sell the and so when i'm when i'm traveling, it's like I have to turn on the hot spot on this is the first world problem, but have to turn on the hot spot on my phone and like, you know, they connect the the kindle to IT like sink up, you know, my reading where a and so it's yeah definitely the first world problem. But I wish that I had gotten, that i've even looked on ebay of, like maybe I could get one of the old versions, you know.

of IT that has IT there. I I wanted advice. I could I could read a book and then switch over to tiktok and watch your kids stick a lemon his nose. And that's why I am using the ipad mini for all of my my reading.

Yeah, I have a phone and I have and I have a computer, and I the tablet, I have own many tablets in my life, and not one of them has ever been useful to me in the slight I .

hoping I actually got to describe because I thought, be nice to write notes. And you know what, I end up doing this. I can't read books, cry because i'm too old in my eyes aren't good and it's just.

I did. And when I get solar guys.

yeah I maybe I need your eyes. I'm going to get my new eyes.

get your eyes laser .

because what happens i'm reading, I just falls on my face and it's just no good when I falls. So I do audio books now must .

decide I do a lot of that too. I have, I love audio liberal t FM D R M three. I, I.

I have an underwater M P three player. I stick him on there when I swim every day. So a mile day at the pool across the street.

can you give us more details about what that means? The the underwater M P three player like so are they .

after shocks with one of .

these things? Yeah yeah I used to these no name chinese ones for amazon and they got progressively worse which was very funny um but um you know and and anything that you use under water eventually breaks. So they're got a pretty sure duty cycle like maybe a year if you use them every day.

Their bone conduction though they don't go in your ear.

They yeah no, the other ones did but these ones, yeah, their bone conduction. You just put flink had your plug in, which I use your plugins when I swim anyway. yeah. And so that muffles the water sounds. And so actually .

that would work really .

well to think of IT. Yeah, they are great. And yeah, just download audio books from labor. Dota.

i'm concerned that audible, you mean we're talking about amazon kindle now we're talking about otto o is an amazon company has sixty five percent marketers for audio.

More than that, it's ninety in most generous. So six, five overall.

Well, one of the ways they they have, we are talking a Steve gives and I we're talking to other other day about one of our favorite authors. He wrote the bob averse series data y. Taylor. And his books are only available initially on audible.

Yeah, yeah.

And because they makes deal, yes.

they are they're terrible to work with. I the book that you mention earlier that I did the geeks and you know that's .

where it's still in print is until that you can listen to IT there.

right? They don't let you set the Price like they you upload IT, they set the Prices, they change the Prices they put on sale. And it's really it's really terrible for an of an author. It's platform. I wish there was a Better um yes.

it's much worse than that though a few google auto gate or cag audible gate, uh they saw at least one hundred million dollars from independent authors with with an accounting trick and one of those authors was a forensic account who wrote crime sellers and who figured .

that out wow, a forensic account. No, yes, you see there everywhere. That's why right?

Books about forensic that is, Taylor, or in his blog, and his frequently answered questions or asked questions, where is the kindle versions, says audible likes to have an exclusivity deal with authors. They are, will try for a six months gap before text versions are produced. Audibl Epace w ith t he n arrator, pace with the cover.

They do the marketing. They offer a much larger advance. He says, audibles responsible for two thirds of my income.

So what am I am supposed to do?

My told me that fight. I pay off my house.

Yes, it's so author hostel. They will never you sponsor the show again. Sorry, leo, but but maybe they will because they want.

Now we lost them a long time ago. We used to love the IT was even more fun when .

corey was on. At the same time.

I love IT be hold .

up science in liberal dota F M liberal that to be fair.

the one time that that happened, you said I could you don't .

like all about much, do you? I'm sure I I lead you on and .

then I said something. And then a bunch of a leo stance came at me for the next five years, going like you're trying to mess.

good. No, I LED you on. I did. It's like when I asked to adam curry, you don't think the armstrong anded on the moon, do you add him? Just sometimes there's something in me that .

I cannot ask the .

question got to .

the amazon, by the way, is joining microsoft and a lot of other companies investing in nuclear reactors. Google are already said that the amount of energy is using for its training, its germany AI is going to mean that they miss their net zero goals by twenty .

and twenty thirty them alone. Everybody's missing them. I is a .

monster when IT comes to energy consumption. So microsoft reactivating three, my, I went, which is not as bad as this sounds, are. Only one of the reactors had a problem. And y're gna reactivate the one that didn't have .

a created that problem.

They fixed IT. What could possibly go wrong? Amazon is going to invest more than a half a billion in small modulate reactors. This is what bill gates has been working on, is these little sodium cooled reactors.

And there's a two different starts, right? Like didn't google was the one. There's two different startups and amazon did one and google did the other. Or I can remember my stories.

AWS is announced to agree with a diminished eric, which is the Virginia utility company, to explore the development of a small modular nuclear reactor near dominance existing north ana nuclear power station. I'm sure they have investments in this as does google as so the .

startups that are doing this are what modulate means is one of the reasons that there's only been two nuclear power plants in north america, or at least in the united states, built since one thousand nine ninety six, is that they're always be spoke so that you .

let's very expensive.

right? And so the modulate means, hey, could we come up with a framework that is, let's create sort of like a cookie cutter, sort of like like a modulate home or whatever, where once we do this once, then we can, cookie cutter put IT in one hundred and eighty different places.

And so there are multiple startups that are chasing this idea of, once if you have the demand to create more nuclear paris stations, once we have the modulator, then you get economies of scale. The fascinating thing is that this is something that, like you said, bill gates and other people have been investing in for many years now, is the demand hadn't been there. And so while there was a lot of investment in this idea, there was no one clAmbering to build new nuclear power plants until a ion tech. So tech is basically kick starting an that had been more ban.

Yeah, amazon is going to develop with x energy.

That's yes, a .

developer of small modular reactors in the fuel. So IT, is that zero, right? These nuclear reactors do not have emissions.

right? Yeah.

there's a really we know how to make them safer, don't we?

Yeah, there's a really good take on this in the new well, there's your problem, which is this great civil engineering podcasts podcast about disasters. They open every podcast with a section called the god and news well. And so this week, the philadelphia refiner explosion.

So you, it's a bunch of civil engineers unna. funny. Civil engineers are various kinds of engineers and so they talked about and they have could take, which is like look at there's already a nuk around and it's not on bio means turn IT on for your dumb you know bubble economic thing.

That's fine. Maybe we'll keep IT on when it's when it's done. But the reality is that, you know, people have been singing the Prices of modular nukes for as long as theyve been promising IT new efficiencies and solar and wind.

And we got those in solar wind. Like beyond all expectations, the solar and wind curve is stunning. Like it's you've never seen like IT is just the most incredible, uh, new production all the time, getting cheaper every day in ways that are just like staggering to the imagination.

And nux just aren't like even if they're safe, they're not cheap. They are they're not getting cheaper. Maybe they'll get cheaper eventually. Maybe this might make the marginally cheaper.

Maybe if that happens, then the you know residue from this bubble bursting will be that we get some cheap nukes after we stopped trying to cram A I into everything in the same way that you know after world comes fraud collapsed. At least we have a lot of fiber in the ground and now we're lighting up thanks to the by part of an infrastructure bill. But it's such a roof gold berg machine um and really the only reason they are doing IT is Green washing.

The wind and solar though are not consistent, right not baseline.

Yeah but we also have like new batteries that we have new baseline.

We need battery technology.

I mean the finish thing, the gravity the gravity battery with cool old coal mine and they're just like posting giant rocks to the top of a multi mile shaft during the day and then lowering at at night. And every abandoned mine in the world has a high availability electrical connection because you have to, because that's our minds work.

And so all of them have giant shafts that you can just lower rocks down all day, and there's more than enough to provide the world's base load. If that works out, there's a lot. There's a lot of possibilities.

There's options. Let's take one more break in. Brian really once says I have a lot to say about netflix, so we'll give you a chance to say a lot of things about nef lix.

That quarterly results came out looks like they're doing well. But maybe brian has some other thoughts. We will find out just a bit. You're watch this week in tech with an excEllent panel.

I just I never want to end the shows when I have people like curry and brian and j and on and just they're just I learned so much listening. I hope you're enjoying IT and work. Glad you're here.

Or should they brought you by fundraising, you know? So venture capital is widely seen as one of the most lucrative asset classes in the world. Just look at the S M P five hundred, nearly every major tech company of list once funded by venture capital firms producing billions of dollars of profit in the process.

But the truth is, as you've even if you've ever tried to invest in one of these, the biggest venture funds almost entirely funded by institutional investors like in down's sovereign alth funds, unless you know a guy knows a guy, you and ninety nine point nine percent of individual investors will not get to participate in the pri po growth of any of these blue chip companies. And it's happening again. Look at the biggest names in A I, for instance, almost all of them, still private, just had to reach your portfolio.

This is a very cool way to add them to portfolio of the fund rise innovation fund. It's changing IT. It's a more than one hundred twenty five million dollar fund hold some of the most exciting pri po tech companies in the world, and it's designed specifically for individual investors.

This time you can get in early fund rise F U N D fund rise dot com slash twit. Now, of course, carefully consider the investment material before investing, including objectives, risks, charges and expenses. This, another information can be found in the innovation funds perspectives that fund rise.

I come slash innovation, and IT is a requirement of the esc that I tell you this is a paid advertisement if you didn't know fundi ze that calm slash to IT. And we thank you so much for the support of this week in tech. So netflix, I thought they had a pretty good quarter. They showed that they could, they could do well with ad supported broadcasting. Their ad tear members jumped thirty five percent.

and more than half of the sign ups in the third quarter were for the ad tear. That in in countries where IT was offered .

forty three billion in revenue for the year twenty twenty five sounds pretty good. I'm going to resume their profit margin is pretty good as well, right? And the market liked IT earnings per share five dollars and forty cents.

That's well over expectations. Revenue nine point eight three billion, also above expectations. So of all, the streaming services, which seems be struggling mightly, netflix seems to be the sole winner. Right, brian?

yes. And you thought I was gonna do a country take.

but I think, yes. I have to say, no.

no, no, no, no, no. What I want to point out because since I do a daily show technical right home, when earning season comes around, people yell at me, they're up, my eyes glaze over with the numbers or whatever. So on this one I was like, listen, they're adding subscribers.

Their margins are growing. I want you to focus in on one thing, which is they had nett income of two point four billion dollars this quarter, which means they're about the past net income of ten billion dollars a year. That's amazing.

So but here's why this is amazing. IT IT was less than two years ago that they had lost subscribers for the first time so that they had five million additional. I just said no numbers.

We thought that growing sub ribes in a quarter by five million was in the past because they had hit the the law of large numbers or whatever. But also, if you are doing ten billion dollars a year in in income, that is more than anybody in hollywood is doing. Now all of these hollo ood studios are under conglomerate. They have the park things they've got. You know.

given the movie business persue the movie is in movie theater business is terrible. Well.

what i'm saying is, is netflix one and this is the point that I want to make, which, okay, brian, you things game over. Well, here's what i'm saying. First of all, listen to the trajectory of this company.

And by me saying netlik is an amazing company but not the brain is not sticking out any new thing. But they beat black wester, right? They created the first streaming product that was that people wanted, even though bill gates in the cable company is in, everyone in hollywood knew was coming for twenty years.

Netflix winton did IT. They survived the quick ster tobacco. They survived everyone and their mother jumping on, jumping on their turf with their own streaming products. And then the thing. The last two or three years about them was, well, yes, but they have all this debt because they had they took out fifteen billion dollars, a long term debt, to continue to make the content.

And everyone on the street was like, or the bears at least were like, it's great they're spending all this money on content, but when are they are going to pay for IT? They're paying for IT. Now they're going to make ten billion dollars this year in profit.

They only have fifteen billion dollars. So what i'm saying is remember like will bring you back to like elon and tesla when elon in two thousand and eight was saying what his long term plan was for when tesla would be profitable and we'll take over and whatever and electric is the future. Netflix said to us fifteen years ago that this is how we're onna take over hollywood and they've done IT.

And so the global box office global box office for last year was only thirty three billion or thirty four billion.

So that's revenue yeah .

that's not even the profit. That's revenge.

So their profit is one third of the global.

That's amazing. Now so here's .

a larger question.

I mean, you good, good on netflix, but is IT over for movies, motion pictures, going to a theater, sitting in a theater.

watching motion? That was my second point. They've done this sort of in a ituc way because they encouraged everyone to try to be like them and background t themselves, right? So all of the hollywood studios have tried to be like streaming, and now they are not responsible for the global pandemic. But now, like you're saying.

that was certainly a catalyst .

going to the movie theater is made maybe something that doesn't exist anymore. So ah they literally could be the only one left standing in ten years. They could be the one APP for entertainment .

like go originally. But i'll give you an alternate take on this. Okay, do IT they spend the most money to have the worst catalogue of content? But IT works for him doesn't .

IT IT works .

for them, but I don't I think that they are you know the content business is a hit business ah, and there is there are A A whole a whole service full of filter content of the second best stuff that you watch when you don't have anything else to watch.

So great year, the stuff that you watch when people don't want to watch, the the stuff on the other services that aren't making money and that have struggle with their business model and all of their Operations and all of that kind of thing. But they are they are not your first watch there. You're sort of what you watch when you don't have something. She's good.

but you never cancel IT.

And also, I have two reports to that, which are, number one, um what you think is that the crap content now would have been like what you would have called goods or whatever you would have called crap content, uh, thirty years ago, forty years. And as as they're creating A A library of content, it'll be the every Green content like the godfather, whatever that you're saying they don't have right now. But also wait eighteen months, three years when all of the other players in streaming throw in the town, they will start relicensing to netflix and they know that. And so net like will have the catalogue that's try neff's wins .

because there's always something to watch on netflix. IT may might be the the one thing you want to watch, but there's always and really that's how people watch TV. They sit down. It's not destination. It's not appointment programing when no matter what the that works when using, they sit down at the end of dinner and they say, what's on? And that flux is gonna win in that situation, unless, you know, apple TV can do Better or disney plus can do Better.

I like I I made that argument, but I will I want to put my cars on the table like I really don't watch any of them like I want I watch but then that's really well.

that's an interesting point because isn't that really the future of consumption?

A hundred percent?

Yeah I mean, nobody forty watches anything but youtube.

You're just an outlier. J and also like the pluto tvs of the world, you're saying what's on that? They are they're killing IT right now. Anything that doing like that free with garbage you would call garbage. But what you're saying is, right.

well, they survive a federal privacy law.

Whom are we talking about? Uh.

any those those of you. Yeah, the federal privacy laws in .

the often too many .

people want IT. We have enough date to privacy law since one thousand and eighty eight. The last privacy law, consumer privacy law congress past is the video privacy protection act that makes IT a crime for video store clerks to tell newspapers, which V H S cassez you have.

Well, and I think we've learned from the national public data breach that we are, oh yeah, really being owned by these companies.

Oh yeah no I mean, it's grow task and like there's people who want a privacy law as they think, you know facebook make grampa a on or installed their kid anorexic or it's White so .

you sick that we are actually gonna a complex of promised privacy or yeah.

we keep getting a string of bills, each of them unacceptable, each of them Better and each of them getting closer to the line. I think I think the writing in the wall, I and I think, and so how does that hurt pluto? Oh well, if you know these are data drive, data broker driven services, right? If they're just like riddled with with surveilLance and they waited, they make their money is by spying on us, then well, they still exist if they're not allowed to spy us.

so they're add supported.

right? They're not at support. They are data supported, right? Like ads are one thing but like I don't know put to specifically, but a lot of these free to free to use video like .

amazon's free TV for yeah there's .

other ones ones that are like just I read about like what are all the millennial watching now and i'm like i've never heard of .

these yeah frey .

frey yeah they're just .

their super data hungry and it's what all the tvs are built around now too. So all these tvs are just terrible. Uh, like tvs are like the worst category consumer goods. We have tvs and cars um and so you like there's not a one being made that fit for service in terms of of its people.

It's funny. People are worried about their amazon echoes series of their google listening to them. You guarantee your tvs listening to you and watch.

I don't know there all are, but certainly, you know cox, they they are all these leaked slide decks where they said over listening and on smart speakers and .

we're using that a target. But sure, it's not amazon doing IT. It's it's a samsung well or .

just these like off and ones because coxes see the Operator and i'd bet we've got deals with with you know TV companies you've never heard of that. I'll you in eighty in television for sixty dollars on prime day and amazon.

I got that business themselves. Yeah yeah and all of us, these tvs equip with cameras. yeah. Don't you want to zoom from your T V? No.

everyone seeing, don't you want your T, V to know when you ve walked away during an ad and talk? You add until you come back and sit on again.

I presume you don't connect your TV to the internet.

I just buy monitors. I don't buy tvs. No.

I don't like smart TV. I would. I would just buy monitors if I could, but they're not the same quality. I mean, I mean, I about fifty five LED.

but I don't in a seventy seven, a giant TV, most of living all covered in you framed art. And then there is A T V that's.

I know, like you're some sort of hippy.

I see my wife would like a bigger TV. But you know, this is the compromise of settled on. And mostly SHE uses IT for gaming. She's up former professional game. He was the first woman to wake for england ah and playing C O D all nigh screaming ing at her friends and having a great .

time quake voting land. Yeah, that sounds like A A moto. almost.

Yeah yeah. Quick for england. Quick, everyone. The english colonize did the quick, because england was coming.

They quick. Don't panic. Quick footing land. Corry, I am excited about your new book. When is that going to come out?

So this book, where do I put IT? This book picks and shovels out february the fifteen, I want to say. And i'll be touring western ney's coast and maybe submit .

the west days as well. nice. But if you want to read IT, you should probably pick up red team blues and the bezzle so that for completeness, you have read the entire and will IT only be a trilogy.

I tell you, when I met Martin, I thought, this is the next James bod. I think you have, I think you've got, you've got a movie. Feel more the series here the way, don't you? This is that old posty is not going to all those places. This is from April.

That's the last year i've been out on tour for, like three years. I like I said, I wrote nine books during lockdown. So incredible.

Uh, I, I, I have some others on the drawing board. This just so much else I want to write them gotta finish the initial ation. But then there's a graphic novel that's probably a documentary in the offing and writing how exciting theories for a national broadcaster.

Uh, so there's just a lot of other stuff. And then it's like I do my my brief D F F is um anti trust, right? This like the busiest time in history of tech anti trust ever. So I busy with that and my kids going to college and and working with her on our college.

Wait a minute. Yeah he's going to college. Yeah I can't believe .

homecoming yesterday he had a frock and everything.

wow. Yeah, a frocks, a frog, a frog dead.

Yeah.

is SHE eglise zed is SHE kind .

that she's lost her acts. And entirely, when we moved here.

SHE had an actual coding accent. Grow I.

but yeah, now he just she's grew in the value valley girl OK banker, sure.

So choke point capitalism and the internet con. Yes, those go together for sure. They're really like awesome books.

And in certification.

when that comes out and there is posses the monster slater, there is your books. So it's all there crap out upon my friends. And what is your preferred way for people to buy them anyway?

You wants to buy them as fine with me. Uh, you can buy the e books for me and they come here am free. But you know as we all know um the platforms have made a very hard to sid delude contempt. So unless you're oh the kind of person who watches tech TV.

you might get calibre. You want calibre we should have. And full time in the background .

but but you know um um you can get them anywhere there. Dear, i'm free everywhere. I don't allow my books to be so good. R M, so, uh you know, get them wherever you want.

He book audio book bookshop, that org, if you want a hard cover.

the audio books are not available at amazon because they require your audible. It's not optional. It's optional for the kindle, but not for audible.

But you can get libro dot F M. I be your old dot F M.

You you get to nominate your favorite local bookstore and they get a little piece of the money every to something absolute ches.

We didn't mention the internet archive. You mentioned a little bit earlier that some of your stuff is, is there there .

yeah they host my podcast. So my podcast .

is all right now. They are only getting back up and running. They got another note from the hacker saying, hey, I still have your email and your SOHO account. You might want to fix that.

I feel so bad for them.

What, as booter kale said, somebody wanted to kick the cat don't do IT. That's terrible. And it's an opportunity. I say this every since every week or last few weeks to donate to the internet arc.

Good time to to give money. I give money every year. My wife's employer matches our donations.

So that's nice. Double IT up. That's nice. Yeah it's such an important resource as are you, mister cory doctor, thank you so much for being here with twenty five years.

I think we've behind you and isn't that awesome?

We did our thousand episode a couple of weeks ago. thousands. That's a lot of podcast.

wow. You know, nice to tell you what pixel shovels has got a camo from your friend and minds. Susan Stevenson worked with you.

A T. V, yes.

he were in our website. Is my burning man camps jelly bi offers roommate in .

the one thousand nine hundred eighties of my god she's now A D J. Does a wild kind of rock show in public radio .

in the .

midwest that's .

the montana, montana.

montana um yeah well gives us in my regard he was SHE was the editor in chief of the website of the site and tell if he wants the old site side. I have a right six. I don't know what going to do with that.

Got a big place. You need a big place.

My wife let me hanging up. SHE says, what are you crazy in the head? You'll die. IT is like a hundred pounds is huge. Maybe I don't know, maybe Jason hiner would like IT for the zd offices or something like that. Jason edit and chief and city, that always a tea pleasure, my friend.

We asked to Jason if he be illness to not only be a regular on our shows, but fill in for me from time to time. And you very kindly agreed to do that. So see more of Jason on our network. And we're very I like .

that learning from people smarter than me. And it's always a great chance to do IT here today.

That's what I been doing for twenty years. What do you think this is? I'm not doing IT for the money.

I could tell you that i'm doing IT for the brain power, the brain stuff. You guys are amazing. Same for you, a brand. Good luck with a new podcast, red history everywhere you get podcast.

What a great idea for a show I love right now if you subscribe or listen right now, john grier, where and I talk about old nine del of seven wednesday.

always a favorite.

always a favorite. It'll be Kevin and hubs. And then I think we're gonna. I'm trying to line up something about rick moranis with somebody that worked with him the kind rick marini nice.

And of course, he continues those the techmeme ride home every day. Well, certainly money. You're friday, not occasionally on the weekends as well.

Bonus episodes yet.

bonus's. Thank you, brian. Thank you Jason. Thank you.

cry. What a pleasure. What an honor to have you on. We'll see you soon. Take care guys. We did twit every sunday yet we stream IT now live.

You can watch just from two P M pacific, five P M E, twenty twenty one hundred UTC on those eight different platforms. I mentioned youtube and twitch and extra command linked in in facebook. Yes, we're on tiktok.

I don't know what bin did when we're on tiktok. Are we all squeeze into a just a little narrow vertical wind? Add is at work.

Did that? I should do. I should check.

Maybe there's big black bars, top and bottom.

I don't know. Get in touch with me. There are some platforms that make this very easy if you have multiple .

video feed to stack them on time. Sorry, I dress me crazy. I think we .

use play.

we use, we use A I to do our by away our twist talk feet is called twit talk get IT.

My point is .

not in its .

landscape.

so we are with the way side o .

so what i'm saying is.

is that there are big black bars, lord.

many tools. Now if you have a multiple video feed to put them together, to stack them, to make them look nice on tiktok and is nice.

yes, we will be in touch. Thank you, mr. My color, and thanks to all the people who are chatting on all of those platforms.

I do see all the chats come in. I have a combined chat room that I see all your comments, and I appreciate them all. Thank you.

It's really nice to have you one thousand and two and thirty nine people watching, but of course, most people watch after the fact we put all of our shows up on the website to that TV. Ah there are uh youtube I think youtube channels for everything everything that has video anyway. Um so if you go to twitter TV, you'll find the links to the youtube h channels for each of the shows.

But the best thing to do if you we really want to get those shows is to subscribe because that way you'll get the automatically the minute they're available and you want to have to think about IT, you'll have something listen to on on monday morning. Please join the club. We appreciate IT all our club members. Thank you for your support and we will see .

you all one more thing .

you one more thing we need to open you. I forgot.

yeah, we'd like to a, you know, have everybody go to A T V. flash. Best of, and you can contribute clips to our best of.

This poor guy has to put together a best of episode every year for Christmas. Yes, once your help, you want to contribute climbs .

so that you can go to tweet out T, V. flash.

Best of yes. So there is a moment in any show this year that you remember and you're excited about, you think could be part good, good. In the best of probably about eight minutes from this show.

Just go to twp that TV flash best stuff. Thank you. I almost forgot.

Thank you. He's a guys got to do a lot of these. So appreciate your help.

Make me so happy. Thanks for joining us. Everybody will see you next week. And as I have said now for twenty years, another twit is in the can by me. Do you want to try?