Bo Burnham | Eighth Grade
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Welcome to the Talks at Google podcast, where great minds meet. I'm Emma, bringing you this episode with Bo Burnham, comedian, musician, actor, filmmaker, and YouTuber. Talks at Google brings the world's most influential thinkers, creators, makers, and doers all to one place. You can watch every episode at youtube.com slash talks at google.com.

Bo Burnham was one of the earliest YouTube stars, starting his channel in 2006 and growing to nearly 4 million subscribers today. He joins Google to talk about his career trajectory from YouTuber to multi-hyphenate creator, including his first feature film, "Eighth Grade." "Eighth Grade" focuses on the struggles and angst of growing up in the digital era as teenager Elsie navigates her last week of middle school.

Originally published in May 2019, here is Bo Burnham, 8th grade. Thank you for being here. Appreciate you. Hello, everybody. You all looking so actually casual. Very nice. I like the guy sitting on the floor. Typical day at Google. Yeah, 21st century, baby. Yeah. Cool. Well...

Let's dive in. You made an incredible movie. Congratulations. Appreciate it. Yeah, I saw it last night. People saw it? Did some people see it here? Cool. Yeah. Really beautiful movie about a teenager with anxiety who seeks connection via the internet. And I wanted to talk to you about...

Your experience with that, Beau? The web, yeah. Yeah, I wanted to talk about the internet and how I was feeling at the time I was writing, which was nervous. And I felt like my nervousness was connected to the internet in some way. So yeah, I mean, that was the story. I stumbled on this sort of voice of a 13-year-old girl and just found that I could say what I wanted through her. I watched a lot of videos of kids online talking about themselves.

The boys talked about Minecraft and the girls talked about their souls, so I obviously wanted to write about a girl. The boys' story would have been like 90 minutes of Fortnite references, which I wasn't as excited about. Yeah, so I just wanted to talk about a story about the internet that isn't about someone going viral or about cyberbullying. You know what I mean?

I don't know, the sort of conversation about the internet that we have in this country is like Russia. And I think there's like a subtler conversation maybe to have about it emotionally. Yeah, and that was the decision to make the protagonist a female instead of a male, which would have been closer to your experience. Yeah, I mean, it wasn't, it just was something that felt right. I mean, I wanted to make something that was not nostalgic and was not my experience because my disconnect from her is twofold. I was never a 13-year-old girl. I was never a 13-year-old right now, you know. Yeah.

And both of those lend themselves to a specific experience, I think. So it being a girl forced me not to project my own experience on her. But also just, I think the type of anxiety I have is shared by my mother, is shared by my sister, and I think it's probably more common to women. I mean, I don't know. But yeah, again, it was just like, the eighth grade girls run a little deeper so the movie can get slightly more interesting. Yeah. I think that's an interesting kind of, I don't know about contradiction, but the idea of...

being stricken with anxiety, but also having the confidence to be able to put yourself out there to millions of people. Oh, for me, personally? Oh, for you and for the character that you created. Yeah, I don't know. It's a weird thing. I don't know how everyone else feels here, but like, I don't know. We live in a culture that sort of requires extroversion, and I don't think all of us are extroverted, and I think some of us are thriving in it, but some of us aren't. And this sort of idea that

If you are not expressing yourself, you are not seen. You are not living if you aren't being seen and watched. It's really stressful. And it's something I have struggled with. Me being of an age that the internet sort of became ubiquitous. The social media did when I was 16. I had a little bit of a sense of myself. But the idea of being 13 and not even having a... Being 13 now to never have known a time before the need to...

live in front of you on this thing is very strange. And you watch a baby with an iPad and you realize, oh, these things are being designed to appeal to us before we can even think. It's scary and it's weird. And I just don't think we're taking inventory of what it's doing to us, maybe. I don't know. I don't know what you all feel. You guys are all young people working in the tech world, so you probably know more than I do. Well, I also think it's interesting.

You had incredible success with this outlet of putting up videos on the internet and the character in your film doesn't have that same success. And I'm wondering if there's a sense of connection that is created by gaining viral success or if that's the thing you're seeking in the first place. Oh, I don't know. I just don't know. I just felt like, for me, it was like...

We were only talking about the internet in terms of who is seen on it and who goes viral. But the majority of how the internet is actually used is by people who are not seen and who are not getting that. So I just wanted to portray that.

I don't know. I think the internet as it functions for most of us isn't a way for us to connect to millions of people as much as it is sort of like a black void that's sort of like God that we can just kind of project anything into and who knows what it is. And is it there? Is it not? I don't know. It's all very positive talk here, as I'm sitting here at the lobby of the Hard Rock Cafe. No.

I love the design. Oh, look at this. It's ongoing. And it's one, two, three, four. There's a lot of strings. I don't know what instrument.

Yeah, so I don't know. I'm just like, you know, for me, the people that speak with authority on the Internet have no idea what the Internet's actually doing. In terms of emotion, you know, I didn't want to teach anything about the Internet. I didn't want to be preachy because if I was being honest about my experience on the Internet, I felt like it makes me... It's good. It can be a real source of good or pain. I'm nervous. I feel weird. And if I'm being honest, I feel kind of like a scared kid. And that's why...

I was able to, you know, because again, when 13-year-olds grow up and become social scientists, I'll be very curious to hear what they have to say about the internet. But until then, it feels like as an adult, our job is just to sort of

take inventory of what's happening emotionally and then, you know, not, you guys can make what you want of it. You know what I'm saying? Just the people that seem to be floating above the internet looking at the forest, I just don't, I don't think they get it. Yeah. Well, that's, I wanted to ask you about being on set with dozens and dozens of 13-year-old children. I know actors, sometimes they're 24 and they look 13 and that's sometimes how casting happens. Right. But,

working with the generation that you're expressing, their story. I wondered how they responded to the content and the characters and the story. Yeah, I mean, it was really just trying to empower them, telling them, like, this movie's coming to you, not the other way around. You know what it's like to be 13 right now, not us. Show us. You know, don't worry about being in a movie. And...

Yeah, I mean, it's no surprise that a generation of kids that film themselves is pretty comfortable on camera. And they were all real kids from that area. I mean, the concern day to day was like, let's make sure they don't drown. Like truly, like doing a pool party and just make sure they don't hit their heads. But I would go up in pre-production. I would meet all of them, just meet all the extras. Because the extras were just culled from the area.

I'd just meet them so they would feel comfortable on set. And I'd be like, you know, what's your name? Do you have a special talent? And I met one girl, and I was like, what's your name? And she said her name. I said, do you have a special talent? She goes, I have eczema.

So it's all about really just like, can you get the kids into the movie sort of undigested? Because they're already so incredible and alive and great. And it's just like, another kid was like eating a bell pepper like an apple. I'm like, what is this? You know what I mean? So it was like, just really just like, they're already so alive and interesting. So it's just about, can you get them to be comfortable functioning in the movie? And they were great. I mean, there was not, no one cried, no one froze. A couple extras were caught making out, but that was about it.

Yeah, that definitely shows the portrayal of kids. Like, when you see some of the children in the movie, oh, I know that kid, or I grew up with that kid. That kid, you know, made those jokes in class behind me. And it's funny, in the theater, when those little shout-outs are made in the classroom, in the auditorium, the whole theater cracks up as if they're a child in that auditorium. Oh, yeah, that's nice. Yeah, that was a very nostalgic kind of throwback. Yeah, I don't even get the references. I mean, some kids going like, LeBron James. I don't even, like, get it. You know what I mean? Like, part of it was like...

I'm saying part of it was also, yeah, just trying to get elements of what their life was into the movie without me having to know what it was like, you know, or having to have any authority over it. Just trying to empower them to be authors of the story, you know. Yeah, for sure. I want to talk to you a little bit about the style of the film and your approach to it. I definitely...

my interpretation, I got a lot of Charlie Brown vibes. - Peanuts, yeah. - Yeah, from both the distance created between the kids and the adults in the film, the yellow shirt of our protagonist. - That's funny. - Some things, so yeah, I wanted to kind of get your

thought process. It was obviously a very thoughtful movie. You've obviously put a lot of attention to detail into it and consideration to it, and it all showed on screen. So I'd love to hear about your thought process in going into that. Oh, yeah. Just trying to make a movie about a kid on a kid's terms. A regular day to a kid is life and death. Can we portray a regular day and make it feel like life and death? Stories like Harry Potter and like, you know, it's like they think like

I think people think it's escapism for kids, but I think it's realistic to them. I think going over and talking to your crush feels like going over to slay the basilisk or whatever. So it's like, like Fault in Our Stars, it's like, I'm in love and I'm dying. 'Cause that's what love feels like at that age. It feels that intense.

So the idea was, can you just take the sort of mundane, regular experience of their life and make it feel thrilling? Make it feel as, can you sync the audience's heart rate with hers? And if you've done that, that's all. So the hope is that you get to the end of the movie and you go, oh, that was so intense. And it's like, well, what happened? I guess you just went to a pool party and went to the mall and nothing really happened. But I just think the experience of being a kid is different than how you remember it. I mean, we all sit around going like, man, I wish I was young and I didn't have any stress. And it's like, no, like...

I know you have like taxes and shit now. I think it's okay. Okay. Net neutrality. But...

I think your stress and your neurosis sort of expands to fit your container. And when you're in that container and you have no freedom, you have no money, you're just like... You're getting driven from place to place. The only autonomy you have is the walk from your dad's car to someone else's house. It's miserable. Just trying to... Wanting to make a visceral movie. Because young movies can kind of be like... You're hearing mandolins and it just all feels very cute. And I wanted to feel...

I remember childhood being intense, really intense, very sensory. It's like you're on shrooms or something. So I wanted the movie to feel like that. Yeah, and it did. I mean, there were a lot of extreme close-ups, and you really felt like you were in this world and with these characters.

You directed Gerard Carmichael's stand-up special, Eight, which is one of my favorites of the last few years. Oh, thanks. Really special. And I saw some of those similarities in that opening where you really, I mean, you cut into Gerard where he's just on stage and you don't even realize he's on stage until you pull back and hear the audience. Yeah, yeah. And I saw a lot of those similarities and I just wanted to...

Talk to you about your process in directing, the relationships you have with directors like Judd Apatow or Michael Showalter. Did you lean on people like that when you set out to make this film because it was your first feature scripted film? Yeah, I mean, truly my biggest influence would be my girlfriend of six years is a writer-director who was working before I even had an interest in doing this, and she probably inspired me most to do it. Yeah, and the relationship with directors I've worked with has been positive, but directors in movies...

Yeah, you know, no one likes to admit Paul Thomas Anderson because it's not cool, but yeah, I mean, like, you know, but I'm saying it's too embarrassing to admit you're influenced by him because he's just so great. But Andrea Arnold, also Marissa Silver, yeah, Catherine Briat's film, Amasur, was very important to this, The Wrestler. I don't know, you know, just trying to do, you know, just trying to be chill.

Yeah, I definitely caught the wrestler, especially with those following her through her experience. That was the initial impulse, like, can I make the wrestler with a 13-year-old girl? You know what I mean? And then it was like, it kind of didn't become documentary at a certain point because I realized, like, just to film it naturalistically doesn't do justice to her feeling, which is her feeling is sometimes hyper-intuitive.

natural. But with Gerard and stuff, it's like, same with Chris Rock, you know what I mean? Like, their specials, it's like, Gerard especially is like just such a beautiful looking person that it's just, you know, you want to film in close-up. And Elsie is just, is the same way. It's just so vivid. If an actor can

maintain the performance there. If you can get that close and you still don't see the actor, you see the character, you know, that's exciting. Yeah. I'd love to hear about how you casted the film and how you met Elsie and how that unfolded. Was it the kind of thing you knew right away or did you go through tons of... Yeah, I saw like every 13-year-old actor in the world, you know what I mean? And they're all like...

They'd be great people. I mean, you meet them and they're like so interesting and they're like nervous and all these things are going on. And then you give them a scene and they become like, they're excited like this and they're sad like that. Like it's all very simplified and they're doing some weird version of what they think a kid in a movie should be. And Elsie was the only one that could kind of...

She was the only one that, all the other ones felt like confident kids pretending to be shy. And when she performed, it felt like a shy kid pretending to be confident, which is what the part is. So she's the only one that understood that. And yeah, it was just incredible. And then, you know, the rest of the kids, we got some from some areas, some from others. But yeah, she was the real thing. She was the, I can't, it feels irresponsible that we greenlit the movie before she was attached. I remember writing it for her. I mean, I didn't. She was 11 when I wrote it, but.

Yeah, she was incredible. I mean, her emotional intelligence, like you said, you can kind of just get it within that...

Yeah, I don't see Elsie playing Kayla. I've seen it a hundred times. I don't see Elsie playing Kayla. I see Kayla playing all the people she thinks she needs to be in every moment, which is just incredible. It's just a magic trick to me. I think it's just unbelievable. Yeah, absolutely. I also wanted to ask about the writing for the character of the father, Josh Hamilton, was incredible. And you've been a teenager and you've gone through those experiences. And I was curious to see your approach to writing a parent role.

Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm pretty much in between them. You know, Elsie was born when, you know, the month before I graduated eighth grade. And, you know, I think I was similar with Josh. And yeah, it was more, it wasn't a choice. It just felt right why I was a single dad. I mean, like in retrospect, I can look back and go like,

Well, she didn't have an older female presence when she was being written. So it was a way for me to give voice to my own limitations. I felt like a scared kid on the internet. I also felt like an out of touch guy that had no fucking idea what she was going through. So yeah, that was sort of the way to portray that, I guess. I imagine the process of writing the film was cathartic for you. Was it even more so after seeing the final piece and realizing the things that came to you, maybe subconsciously?

Yeah, I mean, you know, it's all good. You know what I'm saying? It's fun to make it. It's just enjoyable. And yeah, it's not cathartic as... I don't know, cathartic implies that like you're good now or something. I don't know. I mean, it's... I don't think I'm probably good now. You know what I mean? Like, oh, that was so... No, of course it was cathartic. Yeah, it was super cathartic. You've expressed this thing. Yeah, well, yeah, it's always... The whole point of the things is just like...

When I was young, I used to think like, oh man, I'm going to tell people some stuff I figured out. And then as I got older, I realized I wanted to share with people something I was struggling with, which I think is the more true thing. You should believe that the audience is smarter than you are or just as smart or smarter or just as deep or deep as you are. And that's just been really wonderful. And that was the beautiful part of working with the kids was...

you know, just to try to have conversations about this really difficult, weird cultural moment we're in, you know, and to try to talk about it in a way. And I did with them and they understood and I learned a lot from them. And I'm less scared about what we're in because of them and more scared and clearer and more confused. You know, it's a weird time. It's a really weird time. And you guys are obviously in the middle of a world which is...

I don't know. I just don't think we're totally processing. I think we're maybe processing on our own internally, but are we processing it as a group? What this thing means, what it's doing to kids, how it changes them, how significant this stuff is. You want to say the word shit on television, you've got to go to Congress. You want to change the neurochemistry of an entire generation, you've got to be five people in a room putting your hands up in Silicon Valley. You know what I mean? It's crazy. It's really strange.

You put a 50 millimeter lens on a camera on a phone and all of a sudden kids can take compressed images that are beautiful portraits of themselves. Is that good? Should we allow that? Does everything need to be streamlined? We can talk to five people. Now we can talk to 500. Do we need to actualize our social lives in the same way we're actualizing our clean energy and our travel? I don't know.

You know, I just worry we're going to look back on this like we looked back on smoking, going, why are we all doing this? And the equivalent of my doctor smoked will be my shrink at a Twitter. You know what I mean? So I just, yeah, I just...

The conversation is changing so rapidly. And by the time kids get old enough to become the adults that can then change things, the paradigm has shifted beyond anything they know. It's really weird. I mean, now we're going way off the rails. But I'm interested in it, because you guys are all obviously smart, young, engaged people. And these conversations I have, everyone's having them all the time privately. But it's very hard to have it--

in public, you know, because maybe it's slightly critical of the exact medium that the conversations are being had on. And probably the mediums have a vested interest for these conversations not to take place, he says as the audio feed cuts out. - And that's all the time we have. Noah, I wanted to ask you about YouTube. And that was, you were so early to YouTube and creating and putting your art out there and expressing yourself on this platform.

since then it has changed so much and you're in a different stage of your artistic expression and I'm wondering in terms of making films what does that look like for filmmakers of today or people who, you know, expressing yourself? - Yeah, for real, like you know,

It's a bummer. There's a bummer to it. You know what I mean? I don't know if I could be discovered now. You know what I mean? I'll be honest. I look in the trending videos, and it's "Tonight Show" clips and movie trailers and music videos. And I don't know if a little kid in his bedroom with something special gets seen anymore. I don't know. So that's one part of it. The other part is, you know, I was a YouTuber that posted 13 three-minute videos over the course of three years. I mean, that was my presence on YouTube, you know? And now being a YouTuber is posting 15-minute videos every other day of your life. You know, it's wild.

And it sort of felt like what YouTube asked of you 10 years ago was, you got a little funny thing to post? Post it. And now it's like, live, reflect yourself, be there. And it's weird. It's the same thing like you used to be on Facebook and you make a little website. And it's like, oh, my little picture and my interests.

And now it's like Instagram and Twitter. What do you think? What do you look like? What do you think? Those are base, weird, deep questions. So yeah, it's interesting. But again, the conversation and the movie itself is just meant to-- the movie's not about, and then she threw her phone in the ocean and she was happy. It's beautiful that she has YouTube as a place to express herself and to think out loud and to be a place, a little time capsule for her to see herself at this point.

It's just more that it's so vast and rapid that, you know, it's just a lot to be in the middle of. Yeah. Yeah, it's a lot. When I get to...

Part of that also I wanted to explore is the idea of making films. We were talking earlier about A24 and the interesting stuff they're making where they're really finding unique artists who have a story to tell and want to tell it and have this platform for it. You've been lucky enough to use that platform and all of us are lucky enough to have your film because of it. And I'm wondering in terms of where creation is going in terms of making content...

It used to be one way, and now it's another way. And I guess I'm wondering your hope or vision of the future, where it's going. Right. Yeah, I will say, just as a caveat to all this conversation, I feel slightly self-conscious getting up and rambling to you guys about this stuff. I really feel like I'd be much... I feel like I'd come up with really good questions for you guys better than I would come up with answers for you guys in terms of I'd be much more interested in...

Hearing what you guys have to say, knowing it at the ground level more than, yeah, because I mean. Well, I promise it's not a test.

What? I promise it's not a test. Oh, no, no, no. I know. I'm just saying, like, I'm just hearing myself a little bit. And this is actually the problem of the internet, that you float above your head and watch yourself live instead of actually living in the moment. And you're just worried about how you're being perceived and seen and how people are going to react to how you're seen. So, you know, you never get anywhere. So every moment of your life lives like this, which is every conversation then becomes an interview with 300 people in front of you. You know what I mean? And I've weirdly become more comfortable with something like this and less comfortable with my normal life. I've sort of met in the middle. Anyway. Yeah.

So, you know what I mean? So, like, once we open to questions, you know, I'm interested to hear what you guys think about this stuff. I don't know where content is going. My general thing is, like, what is the threshold of content? You know, like, how much content do we need? I mean, like, there's obviously a finite time of just how many hours are there in the day. But it's interesting. I think, I do think movies will stick around. I do think it's very precious to be in a movie theater.

There's just an excuse not to look at your phone and pay attention to something. It is ironic that the only thing that gets us away from a small screen is a giant screen. I don't know. Sort of my stress, you guys can see what you think about, like my stress creatively in terms of that is...

Sometimes when you're engaged with the internet, the line between making something or conceiving something, working on it, putting it out, seeing it received and reacting to the reception is kind of condensed into a single point. So it's really hard to work on something long form. And I think the only things of substance kind of come from long form as opposed to just this like IV drip of content that ages like milk. So

For example, I took a year off just to make a movie and I get tweets every day saying, are you dead? You know what I mean? And it's like, that's just a really stressful place for young creative people coming up in the field to be in. And I just hope people know that it's okay to take the time and that if you're being in a creative field or any field that I would think, I'll just stick in creative because that's, but that you shouldn't,

The best way to self-promote is good material. And I see a lot of people that are working on the ability to promote without anything to promote. So that's the...

Yeah. I appreciate that. We are going to take some audience questions, so you'll get to not ask them questions, but they'll ask you questions. Okay, great, yeah. And we can open up some conversations. Hi. Hey, how are you? Good. So in a lot of your comedy, you're very open about your anxiety and the struggles that you have. I love your shows, but I also feel a little self-conscious, and I feel kind of bad. It's like, oh, am I laughing at him? So I was wondering, how do you feel, how do you want people to react, and do you ever feel a tinge of like...

I don't know, regret or something when people are laughing at your material? For my stand-up show, it's also like that specific stuff is more like

like there's a theatricality to the sad stuff as much as the other stuff you know what I mean like when I'm silly everyone thinks I'm joking around or whatever which I am but then when I'm being sad everyone thinks like there's a you know I lean into the emo stuff a little because it's just fun uh but uh yeah no I mean it's a I find I laugh at myself with distance you know with distance of time or just distance on now I'm on the other side of the room watching myself so I think that's okay you know what I mean and uh

Probably, you know, we could use a little more laughing at ourselves probably in the culture, you know. The man on top, for sure. Thank you. I appreciate it, bro. Thank you.

Hi, Bo. Long time listener, first time caller. I wanted to ask, thank you. So I've been following you since about 2009 in YouTube and from then on out. And I was just curious as to what it was like for you to become YouTube famous and then to become really famous and what that might have been like. Yeah, oh, that's nice. Yeah, I'm definitely not really famous. I can walk around, no one knows who I am. But yeah, yeah, internet sensation is a tough thing to be. It feels like an oxymoron.

Well, certainly YouTube celebrity feels like an oxymoron. But yeah, I, and for a good reason. I mean, who wants to be a celebrity? Yeah, what did it feel like? - Yeah, when was the moment that you realized

I don't know, it was pretty gradual. It was gradual more than it feels like because it was like, you know, I was 16, all of a sudden I got half a million views in a day, but it was just numbers and then my life was so not different at all, you know? So that has been the sort of, I think the disconnect of like, that was immediate for me, how much the online world and the real world seemed in complete contrast to me. But yeah, like this is really wonderful to be here and everything, but...

Yeah, I'm really, you follow me around for a day, I'm really not famous. I'm just saying, nothing really happens to me. People just go like, do you play basketball? You know what I mean? That's all I get because I'm very tall. It's only. But yeah, no, I don't know. Thank you. I'm sorry.

Hey, Beau. So I actually do work at YouTube on fan engagement. And so I was kind of wondering how you make the decision and when you sort of make content and present yourself to fans and want to have that, you know, not face to face, but have an interaction with them and talk back and forth versus trying to just produce comedic content to the masses. I don't like the term fans or masses.

I don't know, man. You know what I mean? Like, we should get dinner. Like, truly. Let's do it. Like, uh... You should use your community tab, too. It's a great way to engage with your fans. God bless you, man. You know, truly, like... It's empty. And I want to say, like, truly, like...

When I talk about these things, I'm talking about myself. Like, I am the most internet addicted. I'm looking at my fans and seeing what people like. Like, this is not, absolutely not high horse ivory tower stuff at all. I am as in the moment as anybody, as a victim to the moment as anybody. It's weird. You know what I mean?

There are implicate this stuff is so deep-reaching I just find this in myself and talking to these kids that there are just implications beyond the medium itself when kids view each other as users and content creators and fans and their own action as content and I'm going to a party and now I don't want to get in there, but um, I don't know You know, I would just say the earlier thing the simpler thing I would say is I do believe and I hope

hope that good content is the best advertising. And we should just be investing into making it good. And I think that is proven sort of recently as like great cultural, of like Get Out or like, I don't know, the This is America thing. It wasn't because Donald, you know. Like if you look at the real Donald or Frank Ocean or people, like the people that really get hot are the people that actually disengage. And I think people are craving that a little bit. I think people are craving a little mystery. And too much engagement can feel slightly

desperate or something. So I think there's a good, you know, there's an interesting thing, I think, in your world to, I don't know, know when to engage and know when to get people hungry again. Know when to, I don't know though. Speaking of hungry, I'll meet you later for dinner. Okay, great. Okay, good.

Hey, so I read Gay Kid and Fat Chick five years ago when it was on the blacklist. Yes. Which I think is one of your next projects. Yes. I'm not going to direct it. Amy York Rubin is going to direct it. Cool. And the studio I was working for passed on it at the time, but you're doing okay, so I don't feel too bad about it now.

But I'm wondering, so much has happened culturally, and you touched on this in the last five years. Like, how often are you going back to your stuff and going like, can't say that anymore? Oh, absolutely. All the time. Well, usually the stuff isn't coming back. But that one, I was like, I'm not touching that. I was 21 and it was 2011. Like, no way. You know, truly, like, I am so the person that I will be the first one to disavow everything I said. Like,

Like, no, truly, like, I'm in the unfortunate position, and I think a lot of people will be online, where, like, this stuff I thought was funny when I was 16 is online for everybody to see. And, like, I defy anyone to look at the stuff they wrote when they were 16 and think that that's, like, morally outstanding. You know what I mean? We're going to get to a point where, you know, every presidential candidate has, you know, the offensive things they said that they were 12 in their Twitter log or whatever, you know, 80 years from now. So, yeah, I mean...

I'm not interested in having like a coherent moral oeuvre of work. I know I never will. Like I messed up. I look back at old material. I'm really embarrassed by it. It does not hold up. I just ask people's forgiveness because I was a kid and I'm trying to learn all the time, you know, so.

Saying you could dig up old stuff of mine right now, show it to me. I'd be horrified about it. Horrified of it. I mean, what was supposed to be funny in 2008, let alone from a 17-year-old stupid little white boy, was bad. It just doesn't hold up. No, I thought it was really funny. I'm just wondering how like...

I liked it a lot. How like the cultural shift, does it ever like inhibit you from being able to like be authentic creatively? Well that, I mean, well that, but I look back at that script from six years ago and like, whoa, I'm a way different person than this was. So that's why I'm like, I didn't want to direct it. I brought on Amy and Amy and I are now going through the script and like trying to bring it into 2018. Cool. So yeah, but I appreciate it. It's very kind.

I feel like you're uniquely positioned to answer how social media shapes people's personalities. So I'm curious to hear your thoughts on whether you knew that you would have a voice you wanted to share with the world and YouTube happened to be the medium that came along and allowed you to express it. Or did YouTube actually its presence inspire you to find a voice and make you think, oh, this is something that I can do that I didn't think about before, but maybe I'd like to share my thoughts with the world.

Yeah, it's interesting. You know, initially, truly, I wasn't even wanting to share it with the world. I was told, like, I wanted to show this funny song I wrote to my brother in college. And people said, there's this thing called YouTube where you can share videos. I know, I sound like I'm, like, in the 20s. I'm like, and then I bought a hamburger with a nickel or whatever. But that really was the first impulse. I mean, I did have a little, you know, wanting to be famous, stupid gene in me. I was a little jerk. But yeah, I kind of stumbled into it a little bit. Yeah.

But yeah, in terms of how it shapes my, what were you saying, how it shapes my personality? Yeah, what kind of impact does it have on shaping your personality? Like, do you think that the prevalence of social media actually causes people to become more extroverted? Are you on it at all? Not really. You're not. Do you think people here are less on it than the public or more on it? Personally. More?

I would think less, right? Or half-half, I don't know. The internet has affected me personally as a regular user way more than as a professional user. You know what I mean? 99% of my time on the internet is as just me browsing it, being on it. You know what I mean? Once every few years when I got something going, I'll do that. I tweet once every three months or whatever. You know what I mean? So like my relationship with the internet is much more common to I think most people's relationship with the internet. And that has changed me in like

The best way to say it is like, I started peeing sitting down so I could be on my phone. And I was like, oh, my lord. And that's what I'll say. That's as good an image as any. Well, it's as bad as image in any. But I mean, like, that's where I felt like, yo, something's happening.

That's going to be my main takeaway from this talk. OK, good. Appreciate it. Speaking of when you were 16-- Speaking of? Well, earlier in the part of the question, who were the comedians or comic influences that you were absorbing at that time that kind of shaped you or things that you thought were funny that you maybe wanted--

I don't know, geared your direction in comedy. Yeah, like, I mean, like, I love, like, Chappelle and everything, but, like, probably, like, 70s Steve Martin was probably the one that I connected with the most in terms of just, like, someone that used props and was a hack, you know what I mean? By the traditional definition. I was never a sort of brick wall, stand with a mic kind of guy, tell a story. That wasn't my skill one. I just didn't feel comfortable there. So it was more, it was truly, like, I'm saying, like, it was sort of like,

I think Carrot Top's kind of cool. You know what I mean? Like, I kind of wanted to do something goofier and sillier and a little more theatrical. Chairman of the Board. Do you remember that movie? That movie? Yes, yes, yes. It's a throwback.

- Hey Bo, I saw your movie last night, it was excellent. - Oh, I appreciate it man, thank you. - There are two scenes in particular in the movie where I wonder, where I feel like you probably had to direct Elsie with a lot of sensitivity. I mean, given her age and she's probably vulnerable. One of them was the pool scene where Kayla enters and there's a very explicit juxtaposition of her body shape versus the other girls at the pool party. And the other one was the banana scene.

And so I'm wondering, like, did you get advice on how to treat a young person in those situations where you're basically saying like, hey, you there is a social hierarchy based on looks or hey, there is a sexuality hierarchy.

Yes, totally. That wasn't actually needed to be said. You know what I mean? Like, it was... I'm saying, I'll take those beat by beat. And there's actually a third one, you know, the back of the car scene. The pool party, you know what I mean? It was last week of the thing. Elsie was having a blast there. I mean, really. And I was very, very sensitive and worried about that. In the fitting of the costume, are you okay in this bathing suit? Is this okay? Truth is, when we went out there...

Between takes, I was costing people, "Do you want to cover up with a towel?" No, she was hanging out. She was friends with those kids. She was jumping in the pool. It wasn't, and I don't need to explain, I'm not explaining that to her, and that isn't just the meaning of it. It's feeling seen. It's being up on that deck. That stuff didn't need to be necessarily stated, but I mean, across the board, a pool full of 13-year-olds in a pool

in bathing suits has to be treated very, very sensitively. Truly, every single camera needs to be pointed at the ground when it's not being used. This is real stuff that's not okay. Dailies can't be shared with anybody but me. The banana scene was a closed set. There are moments that might register funny

on the film that were not treated funny on the set. I took Elsie away and had the whole crew meet the morning of the fantasy and said, "This scene might read funny to you, it is not funny. You do not joke. No one goes, you know." I was very, very explicit about that stuff.

Everything was treated sensitively too, but also Elsie, I was never tricking her into feeling things. I was never tricking her into feeling scared. She really deeply understood what was going on, understood the intention of the scene, understood the value of what she would do to other young kids seeing this, seeing themselves in her. And the car scene, which is certainly among the toughest to watch,

Being very communicative with her and her father, the young actor there. It felt scarier on film than it did in the moment. There's eight people in the car. But again, she's aware of what the scene means and the purpose of it, which is to portray a type of situation that when on paper described after the fact doesn't sound like a big deal. What, he went in the back seat and touched her arm and you said no? What's the problem? But when you see it in real time, you see that it's...

The subjective truth of it is incredibly violating and emotionally violent. And to portray that honestly, you know, it just blows my mind that stuff hasn't changed in terms of

You know, for young kids you get sex ed and it's insane that you learn how to put a condom on. You learn nothing about how to be a boyfriend or a girlfriend or the actual power dynamics of a relationship or what you're owed, what should be explicitly said and agreed to. It's just absolutely insane to me that they learn how to, you know, use birth control and they don't learn the actual dynamics of a relationship because I guess adults are too embarrassed to talk about this. But I think that's actually changing now.

But yes, I took it very, very seriously. I'm saying I took her well-being and comfort incredibly, incredibly seriously. But she was also way stronger than you think she is. Just because in that movie, I think she's so believable in that movie as terrified in the pool party. You had to imagine she was self-conscious in the pool party. It wasn't. Every time we said cut and reset, she threw on her sunglasses and was jumping in the shallow and was good friends with those kids. So yeah, that's enough.

- We have time for one more question. - Hey, Bo. Also saw the movie. Completely fantastic. - Oh, I appreciate it, man. That means a lot. Thank you. - An element of the scene in the mall where there's a four-year age gap and it's highlighted through Snapchat being present earlier in Kayla's life.

than the high school freshmen in that group. And you mentioned earlier like the nickel for a burger in the 20s. I feel like that gap of time is getting just shorter and shorter where there's a huge paradigm shift. How did you deal with that in writing this movie versus trying to give a generation that is very far from you or me of the 20s from my grandparents a

a voice through it. Like, writing it versus letting it just come out. Yeah, well, the worry was, like, in that regard, is that, like, yeah, you know, we're six months out from filming and it's like,

you know, stuff's gonna get different in six months. When I wrote the movie, you know, all of a sudden now Snapchat's more than Facebook. You know, the line where the girl says no one uses Facebook anymore was because there was Facebook in the script and Elsie read it and went, no one uses Facebook anymore. So I was like, oh shoot, I have to change that to, you know, I have to like change it or whatever. It's like, she's like, what is this, a story about an aunt? But so, so, yeah, and our,

Our thing was just like we're going to wait to the very last minute and then the movie takes place the moment we filmed it. You know what I mean? The movie takes place, you know, summer of 2017. So there's a Wonder Woman poster on our wall because, you know, the movie came out like the week we were filming. But yeah, I think that's right. That like the sort of big generational differences is like we had the Model T and we had horses and we had the printer. It's like now it's like we had... I find there can be huge...

jumps in just like an app update that I'm like, whoa, this has huge emotional, like spiritual ramifications for these kids. And it literally went from 8.3 to 8.4. It's like, what? So yeah, I feel different. I feel like I would have been different if I had Twitter in middle school. Snapchat, I mean, do you guys own Snapchat? Okay, I want to talk to you about Snapchat. No, it's just like, you know, I don't know. Like a...

I can't even. A service that a photo disappears every 24 hours, what are kids using that for, do you think? It's a child pornography distribution. Is it not? I mean, good night, everybody. It is crazy. I mean, it's just like, it's crazy. And like, the solution to it,

I don't know, man. Sensitive, hopefully more humanities and tech. It's good to look around here. Women in tech, I think, will be a huge thing. So it's not nine dudes in a room making these decisions about the well-being of kids. So, you know, I just, if I could say one thing to you guys without, even though I said a bunch of stupid shit, what I actually mean is like,

You guys have so much power. You really do. And you can do so much good for these kids. But it's a huge responsibility to have the well-being. And you don't just have their social lives. You have their own perception of themselves in a real way. So it's like, God bless you. You know what I mean? God bless you. I hope it's...

I look around, it looks like a great group. I'm psyched for it. It's just like, you know, I hope the conversation can be head on these terms and not just the terms of actualization and engagement. You know what I mean? We should talk a little more spiritually about it. Thank you. Also, YouTube engineer. I try to keep that all in mind. Thank you. Cool, man. But yeah, it's metrics versus people. Hey, people are metrics. It's right, man. You know?

It's all good. Well, this is awesome. Thank you for, I think we got you wound up and we let you go and it's been great. Yeah, it's fun. I mean, I knew, you know what? This went better than I thought it was going to go. Good, good, good. Us too. Thanks for listening. You can watch this episode and tons of other great content at youtube.com slash talks at Google. Talk soon.