Exploring the Path to FI - FinCon Roundtable - Chad Carson, Jeremy Schneider | MHFI 243
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Hey, what's going on? Stuck here. This is the mile high five podcast, of course. And I went to jump in before I sended to the episode. You might remember, if you're a long time listened, you might remember that carl quit the show. And I was very sad.

We we recorded a farewell episode and everything and many folks emailed me is great to hear, uh, the support that i'm continuing on with the show. Everyone was sad that carl was leaving. But good news, carl actually recorded a few episodes with me at fin kn, and i'm pretty sure that he's going to record like once a quarter with me or something like that whenever I could convince them.

In fact, he was here like last weekend to record another episode. So he has some freeze time occasionally. You don't tell him that I let let IT out of the bag, but he asked him free time and he does like recording.

So anyway, this episode was recorded live at fin kon. And I whenever the booth is open and they let people sign up, I always sign up because I I don't know who going to talk to, but I know that I could fill the seats. So I got to booth for four people.

Carl was gonna with me, of course. So as I OK, we could get a jermin h. Iter from next term, so we will get him on.

And other friend chad carson, he was going to hop on to. Interesting, while those guys have been going to events for several years, they hadn't met each other before. So it's kind of cool that they didn't meet each other until, like a minute before we SAT on to start recording.

So went well. And I think they had a nice time. They're good do. That's why we invited them.

So we just kind of had a round table we prepared just a little bit before before he had. And IT was fun. IT was fun to record.

There's always like just great positive energy when you're in the expo and then people are walking around and you know the waving at us and stuff like that. In fact, we had a little I could drive by hello from mat and you from how to money. And ah I think we we may leave in the the interruption.

I I think I made IT worse by I was like, come on guys, come on over here and chat with this. So anyway, pretty fun to do that. And both of those guys have things that they're working on.

So I won't try to rehash shit now, but follow the links in the description in the show notes and you can help support them. This is the thing that you are looking for, and I won't. I want to push you too hard.

Now, like I said, IT, we talk about in the episode and I forgot what we said in there. So it's been like a month at this point south. Anyway, these guys are on there.

And I think the week that this is coming out, I think I have a scheduled for like banks giving week so they get the black friday deals going out there. I think most listeners, most viewers out there you already know, you know, don't buy stuff you don't need. I've been known to, you know, catch the fever.

You know, you get all these emails. You can save money. And I think I got this for my my mom. I love a good deal. You know, it's a good deal.

It's if it's a good value, i'm thinking, well, I should take advantage of this even if I don't necessarily needed. And i've got Better over the years, I wait, think if I really need the thing or not. And my wife is also a good filter.

Sometimes i'll go to work and i'll say, i'm thinking of buying this thing. Can you just convince me that I don't need IT or that I shouldn't buy here right now and she's super effectively, is that is really effective at keeping me from buying things that I don't need, which is great? Like if something I don't need, then I don't need IT.

So get a couple ads here that I need to let you know about. So number one, this is awesome. And I think if this applies to you, you need to like take action on this.

I think there might actually be black friday deal. So it's a little bit of a Better deal. So in the last year, i've saved one hundred and eighty dollars because I switched ed to mt.

mobile. And I used to be on one of those big cell phone companies. And basically, I knew I knew that were paying way more than we needed to. And I would call up and they would not give me any promo deals or like you're on the lowest plan, we are on some corporate discount as well. But the thing is you could switch to my mobile in use that money that you saved for energy, buy Christmas presence for people, you can buy guitars.

And this one thing, I I may reallocate some of those funds read bye ah you know like a weekend trip, something like that if you want whatever you know what to do with money, you save IT, you invest IT, whatever you want to do. So here's the deal. New customers are eligible for any plan, any data plan for fifteen dollars per month.

For three months, it'll be forty five bugs when you sign up. But if you are like a huge consumer, you can get like the big play. Now personally, my wife and I have the five gigabytes per month plan, and that's funny enough for us.

So it's one hundred and eighty dollars any for each of us, and we pay on the annual deal. So we get a bigger discount. And previously, we were paying about fourteen hundred and forty dollars per year.

I was like one hundred and twenty dollars per month. So we're saving, I mean, a super IT was shocking when we switched IT was shocking. So anyway, go check IT out.

Thanks to meant for partnering with us on the on the ideal here into you to my high five dcom sl lash mint. This episode is also brought to you by ghost bed. And I I love our ghost bed.

We have the the lux version, and it's a little bit softer than the classic version. That is what we prefer. I was able to actually go over the carl's house and test out his classics.

So that was a little bit more firm. The thing is, uh, goes back. They have several different models and you if you don't know what you want, you can take the three minute sleep quiz to understand, like which a matter should work best for you.

And one of the greatest things about the ghost bed, I think almost all of their uh, mattresses, they have a cooling technology. So it's like a cool to the touch quilted cover. And I believe there are some special technology uh, in the layer there that actually makes you feel a little bit cooler.

And I run hot all the time, even in the winter, i'm often really warm. And one of the the tougher things is when warm vacation. And you know, there's some sort of a hot film mattress.

I I just I cannot stand that. I I need call the cool touch of a ghost to bed, so do check IT out. They have all sorts of different matrices. Again, you can take that sleep quiz. They have the bed sets and other accessory sheet pillows, all that kind of stuff. We have a pillow to one of the ghost bed pillows, and they have one hundred and one night at home sleep trial full ranges of products, you can say fifty percent side wide if you use mile high five and check out as your coupon code, or you can go to ghost bed that com flash smile high five and we appreciate the support.

Hello, world, welcome to the mile high five podcast. Today we have coach carson and jermy snyder joining us. You might hear some noise at the in the background is worth the export center here at and .

is actually presented by the L L. C. Attorney dot com and we appreciate them sponsoring the thing. And they told me to read that cool.

You did a great job. thanks.

They're doing a great job. And it's doug cunning here. By the way, carls been out of practice because I don't know if you guys knew he quit the show.

Yeah, yeah, I quit. But all back, apparently, at least for temporarily.

Yeah, yeah, it's good to have you back now.

Yeah, it's good to be back. What did I say? What did I .

mess up on the intro? What you didn't say?

Here's my .

cohoes dog, man. Sorry that I all right yet we're thinking we're having a couple drinks. And for the people that don't know you, coach carson, who are you? What do you do live .

in climbs in south CarOlina? A been investing in real state for twenty one years. We'd like to travel.

This kind of been our named of our game. My wife is a spanish teacher, english teacher. We're like to go abroad. And so we had a daughter, eleven, eleven year old and a thirteen year old daughter. And with a couple times we lived in spain for a year, we lived an equal for seventeen.

So we had this mix of investing real state mental properties and then vicious take off and could do something and a little many retirement for a year. You're in a half and that's is IT. In summary, the family in the lifestyle that we will try to hold up, amazing.

And jeremy, how about you with your story? Jeremy shouted, and hi, guys was so pumped to be here. I teach personal finance and investing at personal finance club.

And my quick story are retired. When I was thirty six, after selling a company, I started in college and really had nothing to do after that. And I started my passion project of teaching people about about money and personal finance. I really like IT, some people like skype or kite surfing er or much more cool endeavors. I like rose index es.

my real state there. I'm with you. This is fun and .

you guys don't know each other, really, right?

We just met, yeah, great.

So yeah, a little bold. A lot of times i'll try to get folks that know each other on, but I had we reserve the booth and we had an extra spot. And I was like, we just get both in here and we will talk.

So the idea for today is kind of a round table. We really don't have a specific topic. We have got a couple talking prompts to get a started, but that's what we're going to cover today, which is a little bit different. It'll be all over the place. We actually don't know where it's going to go, but called you to kick her off.

yes. So there's one thing I find completely fascinating about both of you and that's i'll go with coach cars. And first, when you came met a school, you are debating between being a line backer in the nfl or in a medical school or being a real state investor.

Thus that ever happened before in the history of hubs. A jermy, you had your startup p in college, so both of you came out of college. You never worked a Normal job.

You and straight into entrepreneur ship. A curious about mindset of that cause I don't think most people think like that. I know I certainly never even considered red IT.

How about you jam me know I had an n or two internships in college at microsoft and so I had a taste of corporate amErica and is a great company. They paid well. You know, I have no complaints about them, but I just don't like being a cogan machine.

And I think in a different lifetime I might have like joined the peace cord on teach for amErica or something, but I was dating someone who was still finishing college and so as like, well, I can't really leave town. I don't want to work for a big company, so I just decided to buy a company. And I literally sometimes when I hear myself saying, or I start a company called, I saw that for family stars, I can imagine people being like, okay, that guy is like Operating.

He must know something I don't, or he must have gone like a little how to start company. Brief case when here's three years old. And like, really is the case.

I really had no idea what I was doing. I just almost, my navy is what allowed me to do IT, because I actually like, well, I don't want a jobs. So started companies like google, how to start company. Like I was really concerned about like you to fill out forms or something as a government going to like putting in jail of doing this right.

And then just kind of day by day, just figured that out from that point for IT and IT roughing, there's years what was living on credit cards, where I could even make enough money to know, pay that for the most meager of groceries before I finally started making more money and had more successful. Definitely the beginning I wasn't like, I knew that was going to work. I was just like, i'm not even don't know.

i'm getting into nice in shed. What was your mindset is very simler.

Actually the were being a cog in the wheel, I think resonates with me. And for me that was the three pads apply for medical schools. I'm really interested in biology to this day.

I like science. I like biology. I was that I tried up with the nfl, but they just rejected me. So that was easy, marked out and up the list.

I know I also did not make .

the f yeah that that was kind of a dream, but not not really the thing for me. I'm a pretty logical, rational person. I like that you spreads a lot of people on the five community, I think.

But much for me, the fork in the road was like a very emotional decision, is that when I thought about going to medical school are working for another corporation, I thought back to my really are my football experience of going to meetings and just like making me do stuff that I don't want to do. And it's just very like lack of freedom was like the feeling I had was when I thought about being an entrepreneur. I didn't know that succeed, but I felt excited.

I was like this is flexibility, have freedom? Yes, there's risk. But as a twenty three year at that point, IT wasn't a lot of risk.

And I was willing to live in a tt at a toyota ama. I own free and clear. I felt at that point of my life, the downside was like not very high, but the upside was complete.

Flexibility, freedom. IT has felt really exciting. And that sort of the path I I just went with the excitement, with the enthusiasm, and that was the right thing for me to this day. That's kind of a good even though I like the use bresh ets and all that navigating by excitement. And what's fun is is a pretty good compass for me.

I have one follow up. Both of you say you don't want to be cog in the wheel. You don't want to work for microsoft, neither if you want to to nine to five.

I kind of felt like all back up a second either, if you probably knew IT at the time. But I think that equality is what leads us to financial independence. You all just get in early, like going.

And I got fed up with our jobs and eventually left. We found this whole fire stuff. But you realized that whether you know or now, when you're like eighteen years old, that which is pretty cool. You bypass a whole corporate amErica bull ship.

which is pretty cool. Yeah, I think maybe that is a part of my personnel that I just don't like. You know, the big corporate overlord S I don't like, you know, being totally to do.

I think maybe everyone feels that way to some degree. And I just had maybe the the opportunity to do at a Young age. But I didn't really even know what fire was until I basically was fire.

I learned that I got to to a point where I going, I think my investments are grown faster than i'm spending at this point. And so maybe I will, maybe I can retire. And then when I started getting into this community, I learned more, oh, this is a name, and there is other people that are doing this.

And yeah, so I kind like back to do IT, but I I wish I know more about because I think it's a really nice goal to strive towards me. okay? You don't need to be in the rat race until you're sixty five. You can know there's other paths.

I think the one thing to say about being an entrepreneur first, that sounds kind of sexy, but I think is easier financially to go get a regular job and save money. And I think the probability of success of five is easier doing what you guys did because there's a steady of the salary, nothing back to some of the risk I took. There's a couple folks in the road with real state investing.

We hit two thousand, seven, eight, nine, and you have leverage in real state. And if you run out of cash in trouble, there's some same with business starting a business that success is a really good, but the failure, there's a bunch of failures. And so I I don't feel like my path was as probable as if I would have gone another row.

But so I think anybody thinks about going out to know that. But I think that's why I think the excitement comes in. If you're not excited about starting a business, if you're not, if the freedom, if I being cooked up in a corporate culture at my squash and you just to you don't feel like you have to do this, I don't think for everybody, I think it's okay. But this is not not a hundred of percent thing for most people.

And how do you guys.

if I may ask, forty.

forty three and four and weeks, forty five.

yeah. How are you? Caro.

no comment. Fifty, fifty years Young, because that's what old people say. distinguish.

You get that full. Had a hair that that looks good. So the thing is, you guys reached fine. Like chat. Would you say you're the point where you're five?

yes. My third is is going to wear 不是。

And so both of you hit a point where you don't need to work anymore yet. You're still doing some staffing. You're working on another startup, which will talk a little bit about.

But why are you? Are you go back some more? Let's going on. Why are you starting another thing and that will go to you change after that?

When I I think I always said the dream of retiring early, I didn't just know there was this thing called fire and two four percent rules and things like that. And I just envision myself. Having everyday be a saturday and traveling and playing video games or what that is.

And I did that. I quit my job at thirty six. And for, you know, a year and a half or so I did nothing. I travelled, I coached beach.

While on italy, I went to, really for two months, I, you know, try to be a body builder, you know, worked out like, you know, I just whatever you like. I find all day what I do, I did. And what I found is like, there is lack, you know, you still to live your life, right? There was like, I was fun for sure.

But IT wasn't wasn't really purpose, really meaningful. I felt I lacked tension in my life, was just like, because like good everyday and watch netflix all day. And and so I thought, and I also like, I would get a lot of valley y from building things when i'm working on a project.

So I didn't intend to go get a job or even to start a company. I just I want to build something. So I started a passion project of just creating an instrument count where teach personal finance.

And that kind of still about there. But I think the net is that i'm doing exactly what I want to do. You know, I don't have to be working for a pay check now, but I think real fire is like doing whatever you want to do.

And for me is building things. I like doing that. And I found.

found that my journey is very similar. But it's looking back, the art of my life. My careers been more in seasons.

So it's like you go to a work season. And then I got our neutral friend, jillian john. We talked about many retirements. Take these little six months one year for me, like I do when I had that time when i'm doing nothing, or for me doing something totally in practical, like I learned spanish, why we live in spain, and learn to do other things.

I read a book and I don't know he was going, where is going to go like, I like to have these periods of my life where i'm kind of taking, instead of waiting to your later, and like to do this travel and these things do those interests about your life. But then the main part, for me at least, is being useful, being having doing something practical, building something. And i'm not a good build with my hands.

That's not my thing. But I love story telling. I love ideas.

And so for me, making a podcast teaching, I feel I almost called to be a teacher. And so this is a reflection, okay? I could do anything I want.

I don't need the money. What I, what do I want to do? And I wanted to teach people. And I also have A A non profit locally, and just one another side way we can go on.

But I got really frustrated by local like alternative transportation that was lack of walking, biking in my community. So this as an actress, or there's just this impulse that we have of solving problems. And I get frustrated by that.

But to solve this problem, IT wasn't a business solution. IT was more of a we need to start a movement in our community, need to start in on profit. So I really enjoy that idea of taking.

There's a set of an idea, there's a problem. How can I organize and build something around that, whether is a business, but there's a nonprofit where there's a communication channel like a podcast to solve some problem like I wanted do that. The rest of my life, I never want to retire from that. okay.

yet. Can you expand about the nonprofit a little bit more?

He has called the friends of the Green creston trail. So there was a nine years ago, I was pushed in my daughter in a stroller when he was Young, and I was trying to go to the local part a quarter mile away, and you get no sidewalk, there's no good cross walk, like what going on with this and just get hit, hit by trucks.

And I went to local community like planning meetings, and everybody agreed, like, yeah, our town's really great, but we had no connectivity. And was anybody working on this? The city planters? I know I really, I are right.

That means I got to do this. And IT was one student group who had named. They had a map of an idea called the Green present trail.

And I live in climbs and universities, the main employer there. But there's little towns around that is idea to connect all the local towns by walking biking trails. There's a big forest in our area with beautiful waterfalls.

So there's a idea of connecting all that and that. So we took that vision and then we had started building on that. And it's been a slowest log i've ever been in my wife. It's been we raised three, four million box and five million box.

I think we built a couple of miles of trails, but it's not like most of those trails like rail trail out that people heard of those where you taken old railway and turn IT into trail. But we don't have any railways. So we're having to go acquire easiest from churches and the state department of transportation.

We're trying to get even on the side of the road and it's been this like I had no clue about any of this stuff, but now i'm like fanatical about studying urban design and how to wise, wise transportation the way IT is and why do we build for cars and not for people. So i've gone down. This rabid hole of learning has been fascinating, but the end result is we have a bigger community now supporting this idea of an alternative transportation network.

We have a website, we have an on profit. We praise money. And slowly but surely, local governments are supporting them, but they just move really slowly. It's just like th Epace o f g overnment i s v ery f rustrated.

Yeah, yeah.

it's pretty cool. Yeah.

germany, you said something a moment ago that I think it's quite important, and I like you to elaborate on. You said your life lack tension. Can you talk more about that?

Yeah, I think when people become adults, money becomes a primary tension in everyone's life. And I think collectively as a society, we can all buy into this idea that money is our problem and money is the solution. You know, if I had more money, you know, if you can pay the light bill, money is definitely a problem, right?

If the lights again shut off because you can't pay through till ties as a huge problem and getting more and saw that, but assumption that that continues. Okay, if I get a life billing good and if I can get nice house, i'm even Better. If I can get a Better car and Better, I can go to vacation and Better.

And so there's constant tension, and that's that I think almost gives us this innate purpose. If we work hard, we can work against that attention, get more money, get more a success, like win at life. And I had this weird experience where I went from making thirty six thousand hours year as a bootstrap start up, found her almost stopping to being a multimillionaire with the click of a refresh fund on my bank account.

And suddenly the tension went away. No, because I didn't, you know, I might. My net, after, when I retired, I had about three million dollars, and that you could definitely burn through three million dollars. Bar was living like I was making thirty six thousand.

And so just I had such an extreme change and I think a lot of people are more like the frog and the boiling water, where it's like getting slowly harder and they don't notice that they keep washing up their quality of life and keeps spend more. So I that tension went away from me and as I go, I don't need to make more money to, you know, what I felt me with. I left me with an empty feeling like OK. I'm not just trying win the money game.

And what am I about? What am I doing? And that's why I think I felt like lost after, you know, in my year of doing nothing. That's why I want to introduce some tension. Could I felt Better as a human when I was actually building something and working towards something that because it's purpose you for whatever, it's kind of family al like what are we as humans but like, no, it's not I think someone just meant to in a couching and watch netlik all day because that's not not a very good feeling after you three days of IT yeah .

well what kind of attention do you have in your life car yeah well.

we'll talk about that a little bit later. When will you get to some of these other things? But I I think it's very important because a lot of people call five people out oh, you your red but you have this blogger, you're doing this.

They're doing xyz. And I can't imagine a life more boring. I'll back up a second is of my food jumping off a table at october fest.

And all I had to do, the dog was like, you should just sit there and not try not to walk. And I usually walk twenty five thousand sub a day. And that drove me that shit crazy sitting around.

So I think the most horrible thing would be to sit around and not to any work. And now work can mean many different things, but I think that's the key to life. Like I think this money message would to find IT as voluntary. This comfort, whether that's exercise or a job, a new chAllenge with neck kiner, whatever you're are doing, we need that in our life to be really happy.

I was, I was just, I love this tension idea. I was, I was going to push back on the people who say, because that is common objection, I get.

So when we talk about financial dependence is why do you do all the sacrifice, all this work, that financial dependence early when you're just going to be working? And what I want to say is like the people who have heard that from nineteen out out of one hundred haven't tried having a butch of money first. And then we introduce intention in your life because it's so I don't know what do you think, but it's so much different.

I mean, it's it's a it's on a whole of the level of create for me created is amazing, is like what do you want to do when you grow up, when you ve got a pile money, when you you built this network is not that you have to live off that the rest your life is that now I have a few money, like I can do whatever I want to do and that's pretty cool, like that is. So for me, like, yes, i'm still part casting. I'm doing other stuff, but i'm also doing this, doing present trail stuff.

I also appearing more and is those things like try having the money first? And then tell me that is not Better to do that first like try IT, but maybe maybe is not Better, but be such a workaholic that you want to call out fight planet on opinions people and say you're just doing something but that's kind of worthless. There doesn't make sense OK.

I try IT tell doing A B test here because most of people I know who have done funny on to business, yes, they go to kind of a little crisis mode where they are like, no, and I don't know you have this gap in my life. But then on the other side of that, they're live in really well. I mean, it's is a pretty cool life style. So but off my rat, off my little box there but yeah, I go frustrated by that .

feedback does IT that's a great point because it's hard for people on the journey to have the pile of money and tested out. So do you have a recommendation for people that are like maybe midway or like more than fifty percent? No, I can kind of want to try IT.

I don't want to have like quit cold turkey like you you had a pretty dramatic situation where you have like a big exit seven figure and like that's a lot. So what do you think? How can people like test this?

We went to piles of the growing, use the pile of money metaphor, but it's kind like a mountain, like the mountain peak might be your five number. But I like to look at IT like how many platos along the way you won to hurt when you take a little many retirements? Yeah and many of time that could be anything could be like two weeks that could be a month.

But like draw, do A A brain store. What is that? I think I want to do what i'm not working one of the activities I want to try and then do those like every two or three years, every five years. That's our kind of season, our lifestyle of my wife and i've done. And it's been fun as a couple.

Two, because I was the one in the financial A P really, my wife was like not into this at all, but one of the fun conversation he had when I was like, what would you do? Like, you're a teacher, you like teaching. But what if you didn't have to go to those bs meetings? You have to do is, as university professor all the time, I do like those meetings.

She's like, no, I hate those meetings. So we kind of crafted this. Like, what would a ideal english or spanish teacher look like? I would be, well, I teach two classes.

I do someone to one, two, three. I never go any of those bs meetings. I want to deal any university politics like every year he has like university people asking to come back and teach full time, just like, no, no, no, thank you. So that's kind of what is like you test this out and say, what what do I want to do and then try to test that to go a little, take a fall off, take a bastile, do something different. And if you hate IT, you like go back to work.

That's school. You can always go back.

You know.

we have, we have a couple celebrities walking by hackling us. They're beautiful. Just come on, just walk behind us, just walk by for the .

video pod casters left and right right .

met joe from how to money, so will chat with them. see. Amazing all.

right? How do we recover from that? Well, I have a question for guys. At at times we do you bring up a Spark s and then I don't know if you listen to the show, but we talk about the Spark s all the time, specifically how make your peace smell and not everyone what we can get into the science of IT all considering your into biology everything. But we'll take IT off like a little bit .

but your peace smell when you just .

time and from you know more of the science point of view, like why do some people not smell the bad smell with the areas?

Well, I think it's because IT bagus, the name comes from a spirit gene, which is an amino acid. And I think like one out of every twenty people, processes differently. So I think for some people, their pee does not actually smile. Oh, chat, if you hear different from your organic chemistry class, let me know. But but that's what I learned.

Remember the chain, the chain, what that I menas IT looks like, and how IT folds and all that stuff. I do not revolutionary cause I do not .

know and I don't i'm .

sure great .

I was a good class how you are just in germany and i've been told they have the BIOS so they they hide IT in the dark and IT doesn't get the core filler. IT doesn't get the color, but it's extremely worthy, very big around the carl, you said you had some of those spirit stocks. Actually.

they did not have a there IT was out of season. But what I did have i'll you one quick story. I ordered we went to ever friend over there, so he was like, let's go to a traditional german restaurant.

So we went there, and that thing was in german. Everyone spoke german songs, like point in at the menu in granting. So the thing shows up.

There was some kind of like bork thing with what I thought was a big pile of matera cheese. And I can show you the picture looked just like that. So like, oh, wow, cheese.

This is great. I took a big forkful all that for. I don't know why I did this and stuck in my mouth. And IT turned out he was like fresh horse radish so I stick to stick in my mouth and like. I think flames came out of my nose like a dragon on.

did you down your whole beer from there?

Your whole steine? I don't know. IT was a very charmaine.

I could locally. It's short acting, quick act itself. I quickly recovered.

but not a good move. All right, call. Do you have any other thoughts on the line of question? We were I forgot what we were talking about.

Remember that I was .

like the size of your risk.

It's huge. No, I just think this sole conversation is fascinating. And because all four of us are financially dependent yet we paid to to come to this conference to do work. Like you could say, we're work right now, but it's worth that makes us happy, gives us meaning.

And so we have like complete autonomy. So it's like who we want to talk to an interview, just friends. Thank you.

We can do IT whenever we want and yet just the autonomy feels really good. And when you when you're a cog, you don't get to pick anything, you have to go to the fuck meetings. And it's just I got have a question for .

you all because you talk about fine and I talk about financial on the pines of my show because I get into the nativity real day. I'm curious if you've had this dialogue four, five years ago. I was pretty obvious a lot of people like the financial independence.

This movement was like, IT was obvious that was like, yeah, that sucks. I want this. I've seen a lot of popular kind of push back.

I don't know what the narrative is, but it's like kind of going to other way. And why why is this even interesting? You will still see that is a popular thing to get out of you at the corporate car.

G. O, I wonder if that seems like that would become the universal. But i'm just i'm one of you guys more post on this. A little bit more was the movement of five White right now.

Yeah, that's interest. And I think IT has a often maybe it's evolved because our money has evolved and we will probably of great network as the stock market has done good.

So i'm not sure about what you're same sad, but what I have seen as people, I guess, let you lose on the postings and spending a little but more money on experiences and maybe getting away from the extreme frugality like japan fiscal early retirement, extreme and even early iterations of mister mini mustache. I'm moving on twenty four thousand years IT seems like people are moving away from that. And ah that's the main thing i've noticed.

Yeah you know I think I understand what you're saying, chad. I think there's more of a drive for slow five or coasts fire where people like lift off the gas a little bit instead of like working so hard like fifteen hundred days like you are on the sprint, you got there early. And I think you have through your experience, people understand like OK, if you get to a good spot, then you can kind of relax a little bit and maybe you could go part time and it's not too bad and you have a little bit more freedom and people are not so assessed and then you can kind of gradually like get into the right mindset because like if all of a sudden you have yeah tons of freedom and A A lot of money, then you can potentially make some bad decisions and get depressed. And actually a lot of, I mean, we've interviewed enough people where some people do hit depression and after kind of go through the existence al crisis and figured out, yeah, I think people are moving towards the gradual situation.

explain the idea of which I think is always been there. But maybe more popularly, IT was kind of perceived, five years you go all, then you save seventy five percent your money, then you're out and then there there is no other way. Where's what we're saying as there's like a lot of path and you get up way there and take a break and get cost of as a good thing, there's a lot of more variety and the conversation.

what do you see, Jimmy? I agree. I don't see the ultimate fugal being as popular more. It's like you can live on A A farm and spend ten thousand, nine hundred years. I think a book i'm hearing a time about lately is die with zero, which is the idea that there is a time value to money works like if you have an expense chart and you have a billion dollars when you're ninety and you roke, then you've wasted all of your money because you didn't get to use IT. And you know, every day week, your decade of your life is like the Youngest remaining time of your life.

And so the money you spend now is more valuable than the money you going to spend when you're eighty, because people who are eighty often don't travel as much or have medical leases or can't or already died or whatever. And I think there is kind of handsome. Some people are not enough fruit irl and they get in a crippling debt and they have to work forever and they are broke and they are spad.

But I think some people would go too far. The other extreme, and they say i'm to safe, safe, safe. And it's numbers gain, them gona win and then die with the most.

And I think they're also losing. So you hate to use a baLance, but you want to use that money. The opportunity rises.

And so know in our forties or just recently, our forties, and you were still time in peak physically condition, but that might not be the case in twenty, thirty years. And so maybe we shan't be trying to maximize value. Then we try maximize monitary value, then we should be maximizing like utility value.

Now yeah, the whole point of financial independence is to have money to increase your joy and happiness. So if happiness and joy is the god is the end goal, IT should be the goal all the time. Why postponed that? Do a sprint to just to accumulate a bunch of money? I think you have to find a way to reconcile your life with your goal, financial dependence, for example. Like, I am like my job I should have just got, but I paid a lot, so I stayed there. I should have just made piece with putting my job done, something I enjoyed board, maybe worked for another year too longer, and then I would have had a Better time with life than, or joy.

Yeah, very good. Okay, anything else in in this ROM? Or should we shift years .

a little bit? All right. So selfishly.

i've been looking at e back so little bit. So I talked to peat, mr. Money must. It's so fucking and excited about bikes and riding bikes. And I was like, alright, and like i've looked before, i'm kind of interested. He gave me some tips on some brands that he's interested in, but I think you guys have a little experience with e bag. So as to first jermy.

maybe yeah, I recently, I bought me back for my fiance for her birthday, and I dove into the world to drink on the researcher, the classes in the, the hello IT breaks in the, and I guess I kind of did land and forget a little Better because you you could go crazy and not going with electric gram, which is kind of like A A cheap grammar still like has a lot good features or whatever as like, you know, let's start here.

If we hate e biking, then we always sort of money, but it's really fun. You know, the charge last long time, you go fast IT definitely makes you more likely to want to go biking. Can zip ground town? We got the the utility bike, whether you know the kids, you can pay the kids in the back, good groceries, whatever, really very good successors under two grand for for OK IT.

It's like the evoluted, some of those two. So it's like the X P three, but it's like the more utility like so .

you can put more right, think the big bang and is called the electric expedition. This is not plugged. I don't know this company.

But yeah and then IT comes to like a little called the orbit and like a little ring around this. It's like a big luggage rack back and but that you can pop the kids in there. And my family is a three orders.

He loves that because you can to sin there and hold on. And my feels very free, too much faster to throw on there and even put him into your car, see or something. And so is like going to my d to pick up food or something is like a really fun way to do IT. Okay, cool, cool. Alright.

what about each other? So i've been using an ebit for five bor six years, but i'm is broken. So I mean, the market for another one.

And I probably I want to fix that one, but i'll tell you what we had on that. And i'm not very technical, my research of the stuff, but I had a friend who was a local bike deal. I had a bike shop, and I I was called a turn T E R N.

And IT was is actually one of these the time we had just had a small toyota car. And so if IT, we can fold the e bike up and you put IT in your trunk, that was like a pic deal for us. But that is kind of undersize for me.

I am six, three and we bought a bike that was like, kind like a few time. Bed is not a good cause, is not a good bed, but it's like in between. I can do both like this was not my the bike did not my wife size.

I didn't fit me. I was in between. And neither one of us like, really fit very well. So so is like me, a big man on this little bike, kind of biking. But I use that all the time.

Like, I fell in love with the eat because in the i've talked about, my bike infrastructure is not very good in clumps, but I can get anywhere in town, in the small town in ten minutes on my e bike, and in the summer is hot. And so any anybody wanted meet with me, have coffee, whatever. I wanted to go look at one of my rental properties, i'll to use my body and I would just take off.

And I was amazing and senses the battery went dead. So to replace the battery. But it's i've been kind of to you know, it's been not as I have really miss IT not being to use IT.

So I I want to buy a new one that pits me and I want to get out and fixed. And then my wife and I both have a bike, right, right? Okay.

and you have an e bike tells about words.

so I do. I built my own .

and this was way back in twenty seventeen. The reason I built my own was because there are aren't many e bikes available the time, and they're all very. expensive.

So there's aren't many choices. Also, I wanted one that would go very fast to you, start motorcycles. So my e bike, I can go like forty miles now without any pedal input. So feels like a motorcyle.

I motorcyle. I remember reading you and writing that down the street pretty nuts.

Yeah, it's a lot of fun. I won't recommend building your own now though there are so many good choices and they've come weight on and prose so I would definitely get them off the shelf win. But i'm kind of curious what is your use case for an evil?

I think, yeah, that's a great question. I think I would go to the groceries to occasionally. So actually like replacement for my old truck. There is some Green ways. So i'm not comfortable writing on the streets very much.

There's some Green ways, so IT would be very minimal if have to get on the street and maybe some you know just other stuff around long mine. So other stuff is pretty close as like a right age. Keep pretty.

I wrote my bike, done e bike in the past and maybe some leader, but i'm not a melt biker, and I have a low interest. I may want to get on travel occasionally, but nothing technical to help the many recommendations. Yeah.

I get one of those cargo bikes, maybe something like what jermy looted to a red wagon where theyve got stuff to put things on back. And I will say, I know you don't like being on streets, but I actually feel safer being on an e bike on the street because we're going moral with th Epace o f a c ar. And if there's a bad situation, would be might be easier to get out of IT because you've got .

to speed and power. You not going super slow but .

goes forty, which other thing is even to go some of so yeah, twenty eight is the maximum speed, but that's only for off road ones. Twenty is supposed to be the street speed limit.

Got IT. okay. Yeah, I think i'll probably you know we're approaching black friday deals are gonna around india, ec electric and there's a couple other direct to consumer brands, which are about half the Price of what I was looking at.

And like some of the shops because I was like like two thousand box plus and then I don't know they Price them so that like all you like, I M in thirty six hundred, like what happened, they seem pretty cool and everybody seems to to like them. So strong chance i'll get one before too long. All right. cool. How do you have any other a big questions .

who I don't think so I see you passed on your chevy volt. We are talking about that a couple weeks ago, but you decided not to get your new car, which seems like a good, you don't drive that much yeah.

Don't drive too much. yeah. One of my neighbors was getting rid of his heavy voice. Familiar with this car.

I know it's electric car.

So it's a plugged in hybrid. And I think when you run off, the gas engine is like forty five miles to gal, so pretty decent. Haven't old like the a truck currently. So not create on gas managers, but I I hardly drive IT all I can walk to the gym like the stories super close, so i've hardly drive.

It's pretty amazing, by the way, that you can live in a place to do that.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's it's amazing. Yeah, there is tons of restaurant I can walk to. And yeah, it's good.

You think that the voice just wasn't excited about the vote overall, even though IT seems like a good option for a lot of people. So but ultimately, I was like, i'll just keep the truck for a little while. I'll keep someone else from driving the truck basically because I could sell at IT. Actually, I could resell up for a pretty .

decent I think it's going to say you're truck nuts. I know you would probably take them off your truck and put them on the balls or your e bike involved. Look, we're like truck, truck, but pretty big. Sorry, they definitely get a place on either or of those already to vehicles.

the huge, bigger than the experience.

much very OK with that.

What kind of cards? Children, don't mind me asking.

I drove used cars in my whole life. Ninety nine, four. Explore was a car driving. When I saw my company, I finally bought a new car as a millionaire, a mather.

And then most recently, I drove the moza for six years, and most recently by testers. Like a model three, nice. I love you.

Like cars. I don't think I test that, but I don't think I can ever drive a gas car. And like, I love waking up with a full battery.

I love how silent you hit the gas that goes like so fast it's so easy. It's like all tucky. I'm all the cars which your .

model three is .

twenty twenty three OK i'm .

a toyo's superfan. I like toyotas. My first car in high school was a toy to camera, and IT lasted forever.

So I drive a toy to red four. We bought a used my wife and heard at her car, her mom, when he passed away at a lexis. And so we would not buy a lexis Normally, as I can all lexis.

And so we're we're the toyota family. I used to drive an avalon as well as a tesla is is enticing to me. One of I have a car, not a kind of my top, my priority list in the moment. So one of these days, like the bike is higher in my list, in me, like a car.

much cheaper too. Yeah.

yeah. How do you like the wise so far?

yeah. So I have a text model. Y and the main reason I thought that was because I ve bought tesla a long time ago.

And you, musk s, but the company on fsd efforts, and that is their efforts to make their cars autonomists and to create autonomous driving fleets. So as a shareholder, I thought I should keep track of their autonomous a effort side. Botha, I signed up for the fsd package and it's only tried to kill us a couple times. IT didn't a weird move on the way to the airport, your friend with a dog, the car, like, kind of free out a little bit .

when I saw that. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. 对， IT. IT is weird sometimes, but I didn't kill anyone .

to use that a lot, do you like like, I have a two, but I find myself rarely using IT.

Not every, yes, I use IT every chance I get. So I can try to detect improvement. And and I don't know, it's still, it's much Better than I was a year ago, but it's still a long way to go. There are going to have driver this Operation with the vehicles .

years is two .

thousand and twenty three is okay.

Yeah I think that twenty three and later, I like the new or hard where which suppose be Better for that. But I agree it's not doesn't feel like there are still little bit yeah nerves about IT.

I guess I have to say i'm always impressed with carl, but i'm impressed with his deep research of stocks like you buy the tesla to to research IT as as a customer. And I was thinking about the logic of this, okay, so they say, he say he doesn't work and he almost kills his family, then he can sell his tesla stock or is high, then he can short IT. And he's always going to make money style. This guy is like a prety.

pretty brilliant. And the first is broker in. The second is.

So what about elan's politics?

So just .

going to talk about, all right, very good, very good OK. Let's start a winding down a little bit. And I I want to talk about nectary. So jermy, this is your newest startup and i've been recommending people to check IT out because there's a lot of use cases where I think that does work in my wife and I SHE read only retired like six months ago. And really the only way that he would have retired is if we hire adviser, i'd like get some expert input, even though our engineers were spreading people like we see where we're at, but we needed some help. So what's like to read about.

well, i've been doing personal finance education for last six years now. And i'd always get the question, you know, how do I find a good financial ser the exact know the situation that you and your right for? And if you were to asked me that and say, where do I go a few years ago, I would say it's tough because the world of an advisor is weird.

Most of them, they make money by selling specific products. And so if you went to the type financial adviser to say, hey, can I retire? They would think, how do I sell in my products, right? It's like, so it's such a comfortable interests.

And the other type of financial visor is an asset undermanning ment advisor where they charge you like A A percent of your and again, you could say, hey, can retire and their whole intent of model is give me all your money, i'll managed for you and then I will give you advice like you ask, answer a question only and so far as I don't lose you as a client, right? It's like this conflicts and and so I when people ask how I find a good financial advisor, i'd basically say, yeah, I don't do those. Find someone who charges by the hour or by the project, we asking the question, your questions, without those weird commission or A M centive.

And they would always asked me, they say, great. How do I find one of those? And my answer would be, I have no idea there. You have hard to find their destinations. And so that's what we build next to in the advice only financial advice marketplace where you you can find any financial sor, you can see the availability, see the reviews, see their Prices, book directly online.

And then within an hour or two, you can be on a zoom call asking your questions with reduced C, F, P, who has no incentive other than to help you? And I think when people, the world of fancies, I know my feeling is like you talk to financial, like h what do they try to tell here? What's your angle? Or like this, just like this weird thing, but we talked to one that doesn't have an angle other than helping you. It's like this really like different clarifying experience. So I mean for you know you and your wife, you could go talk to the next am freshy by the hour and then have no worry about them, just trying to save something in .

one thing which you didn't mention. But one thing I like about neckin is you can also filter by their specialties. So i'm looking for I don't actually know this is one of them, but like senior retirement planning, I can put that as a filter and find someone who is as break knowledge of what i'm trying to seek advice for exactly.

You can filter by their specialty what you're looking for, even demographic of your military or or health, are workers, whatever days, because each kind of demographic might have different situations. Then you can see just those advisers. You can see the reviews, see when they're available, where trying to a lot transparency rather than be just like a yellow pages of phone numbers that you can call and get a know free consultation or something.

The yellow pages, exactly.

We're still catching up with some old tech.

I used to advertized in the other pages that dates me as well. Yes, sorry. The rail in the conversation there.

Okay, no, no. Nectarine is super cool. I think i've recommended to three people. Most recently was someone who went to a bank and the bank tried to sell them and annuity, and they were very convinced that they should buy this thing because the person working at the bank was very, very nice myself. And I don't think they trust my opinion. And like, well, let's find someone on neck trying to talk to and review our situation. So next month.

it's wild how the advice changes when the incentives changes. Like if you walk into a life insurance salesman office and ask them for financial vice, I can virtually guarantee you the advice is going to be buy life insurance.

But when someone is not selling life insurance, and this is just a flusher there to help you with no financial sentence, they can tell you about, they can talk you about life insurance, say, say, hey, you're actually my niece. Life insurance, because you have Young children, you don't have network when they might say you don't need life in turns at all. You twenty five and you're healthy and you don't have kids and you are building what you'd actually be Better putting your money out.

So right? And so yeah like when you walk come to back, their job is to sell you banking products, right? And so really is remarkable how there's that famous quote that says it's very hard to get a man to understand something when his living depends on not understanding IT. And so people who sell a product for living are not going to give you kind of unbias advice for your situation. They are going to .

who's like the ideal client or person to try because I know what we went to advisor. There were a few meetings like we probably needed about three to five hours to get a baseline and then a projection. So was a bit of A, I don't know, kind of a package. So like what should people expect if they're like, I want to get a little advice, actually, they expect to have to meet a few times.

Depends we actually currently like two different options. One is called the hour, where you just pick a time, me, then zoom, we have an hour and you get to, I can write up after hours like notes and to do items. And that works really good for things like a second opinion in your current advisor or I doing my four on k right, helping with the roll over portfolio review, kind of things that don't require a deep die.

If you're asking five years out can I retire? That's not going to happen. And I also we have another option called the plan where like an eight week process, small, small meetings, like full review of all your docker ons and tatra turns and financials and that stuff and then that that's more like a complete plan.

So we're trying to a lot of people just need an expert to look at the screen and bounce some ideas off of an an hour is perfect and some people need more. And death thing, you know, you kind of ask about our ideal costers. I'd say, you know, certainly D I Y investors, people who don't already have an asset manger, are the ones that want someone to go to without the weird and sentence.

But I think more people are shifting to that, right? Your average, you know fifty old, no offense. Coral maybe has grow up.

And I mean, I like I talk, grow up in the world. That's how you invested. You your family has a guy.

You give him me your money, he sent you reports, everyone's slow and you don't understand how he gets paid. It's very, it's very marky, but maybe it's very nice. No, no, if it's that guy, but you're ever twenty five world isn't doing that.

You average twenty five world is open up and or you know what you know or fit the vanguard whatever doing themselves. And it's kind of suspicious that old miles. So I think as the the world's more towards DIY investing because there's never it's never been easier to access low cost discount broker is I think there's this this advice only financial advisor is maybe a bigger need germy .

am knew to the feel only kind of world. But is is that typical that somebody has that first meeting and then almost like I had A C, P, A, I used every year have a family attorney. But I would a soon like that makes sense that a relationship with a family financial plan of the time, is that not difficult?

Even this crown, for sure, you know, I think IT depends on your situation, right? People meet once and great that I need, and some people come back six months later. Some people have three or four meetings about front of IT. Really depends cp s have the natural range of you have to file taxes every year so I can have to meet with every year. It's kind like having a cpa without that tax of line area because you kind of meet as you need.

Yeah so worth illius for accurate. All will link up and we get a commission if you signed up and all that. But IT, it's which you're looking for.

It's kind of the perfect solution that kind of didn't exist before. So thanks for setting IT up. And if people want to learn more, will put a link and you just check.

So awesome. Thank you. CD.

what do you working on? What's going on with you?

Yeah, i'm falling on coaching and teaching. It's kind of my world right now. And so what we talked about going back into the work again, and I was I was sitting in spain and we were chill and out trick and sand.

Stead of this said I was like, kind of have we in like I make a podcast I do this is fun, but is more of a like, professional hobby, which is cool. I think that's cool too. But then I also noticed all my expenses in this thing.

We're going up and I was getting little Better success on youtube. And I was like getting, I couldn't catch up with my email and box. I was in this weird in between space where I said, I don't need to be like a full time teacher or I need to, like, really step back in this thing.

And I decided that I wanted to do more, like, more teaching, more coaching. So I doing that. That's what I spi been like most of my time.

I spent a couple hours a week on real state best thing, kind of managing my managers of our properties. And then I do youtube videos of a new podcast every monday. I caught the small marty real state investor.

So it's my audience, people who are, you know, not trying to scale with the moon and have a thousand units. There are five units, ten units, twenty units. There just have enough. So they have cash low and ability to do what they want to do. And so I tried to teach them how to do, teach to how to quire the property, how.

Finance IT well, how do you manage IT once you have IT, how you build systems and teams? And so is like a little business you know real state, unlike you know index front. The best thing you don't really need to understand the business is your own of the index fun.

You do not understand property management and you'd understand maintenance and you how do you spread sheet. And it's not rocket science. But I had a lot of fun teaching that and taking me full circle back my sports days, the football, because I feel like kind of channeling of coach sports, except my, my kids. But I I really liked the idea that your success is other people's success, that if other people make money, they build wealth, that you have the satisfaction of, that it's like ten times we're satisfying. And when I would do IT at myself and I 这个， i feel pretty lucky to be able to to do that on a day day basis.

And you just got to hundred k black.

yeah, hundred thousand scribers.

Oh, my kids think i'm the coolest .

guy in the world now. And everybody in elementary, middle school wants to be a youtube r now. So if you're dad is a youtube.

My daughter was going around the school as I got a ninety thousand six. You need to subscribe to my dash channel. Really boring, but you please subscribe. So that's my eleven year old little, but it's a more realistic .

business or a more real tic clear path. And he used to be like like actually like maybe someone can go into that as a job and have a pretty high likely to success.

They wanted to youtube. So I i've kind of got him the editing videos a little bit and thank you. Just in this like this was built skills not just be famous, like let's try to like actually have skills of editing and practice making your own videos.

One of my daughter went to a video camp this summer on making that film. But like the idea is you can make your insurance and story towering. So I think it's a there's a cool side ever.

There's also like the dark side of the internet and kids get on the internet. But it's is fun. I really is kind of fun to connect with our kids.

I don't think youtube be that connection, but real state borri youtube, awesome. Be from them. yeah. Sad is great.

I saw you speak at bp kind and night. I've love your message because I think IT flies in the face of worst real state investors. Or a lot of them, like i'll talk to, this is a pp con and a lot of people have of this ridiculous goal of number of doors, like I want a thousand doors, or I heard someone saying I want to a portfolio in the billions, billions with a bee.

And you are not like that. I feel that your goal is to live a rich life. Real state is one means to do that.

But you don't need to go crazy. You get as much as you need and then don't go for anymore. And I also like you because I think there's some suspicious characters in the real state world. Maybe you're on snicket and I know that you would never compromise yourself or lead someone to stray. If there is anyone who wanted to become a real state investor, you would be far the number one person I would direct them to, because I know your neck and i'll lead someone to stray just to make yet another dollar or get another door under your bill.

There's another intent of conversation, right? How do you why are they doing that? What motivates them, you should asked that question is a really good question.

But I feel like my my message, my movement i'm trying to build is like the foil of the tennis. Go big. You were not successful unless you have gone big.

My name names is like the grand cardon's of the world. Grand carton was the debate me on a pod test? I would say bring IT on, but please, let's go because .

it's going to .

hear this is .

going to hear one other .

ships and as well. But anyway, I mean, cool. We can disagree on stuff, but the thing I think is dangerous is like people like they borrow goals and others like they see people's heroes, they look up to them and they kind of just do IT because that's what another person did instead of saying.

So i'm trying to I give not just me like other examples. And I feel like the five community that's really what is awesome about is like there there are people who have enough. There are people who are good parents.

They're good y're doing other things. They are starting new businesses there. And you can look at that and say they're into life and being the best person that can be and then they're using money in real state, these things as a tool to get there.

That's a very different message. Then you're not a good person unless you have you keep going. You're small, literally you're a small person if you're not play big and that I think this kind of silly and it's want to share an alternative viewpoint on that.

Where can people find you?

Coach car said that you search on youtube if you search on online google. I don't do much on social media, but I do have some mistake m channels and things like that, but youtube is the main spot and then you get to my website .

will link up to that stuff. Thinks that thanks, Jimmy. Really appreciate that you.

Thank you. Thank says, thank you.

Thanks call. thanks. You're sent today.

Thank you. Could you be back, right?

thanks. We're listening to the show that was the my high by podcast and i'm dug kennington. If you dig the show, please do three things for us.

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