The Future of Wearables and AR With Alex Himel
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welcome to boz to the future i am boz your host ah i start this podcast to try to get um an opportunity go deeper in the topics so often i hear this great podcast and they cover a lot of ground um but you don't really get into the details as much as i'd like to as a technologist and engineer and so that's why i started this podcast and i am joined today by uh another fantastic meta engineer so when i worked with for a very very long time alex hamo when did you join what year did you join.

april of two thousand.

and nine april two thousand nine and so i was your boot camp manager and their engineers join this company they go to think called book camp and which i started and for a little while when you join the company you reported to me there was a period time we're like seventy five percent of the engineers the company had at some point reported to me for six weeks to the book camp and then after books if you went and worked on platform and then you and i have kind of inner twin several times since then we were on people places and things back when we were doing that kind of work we worked again together in the ads in business platform area and here we are reunited for the last five years now in what was then arv r now read labs uh where you started out doing just some wearables and you're in all the wearables um so welcome welcome what do things i like to do on this podcast i've done of a soap y job there is let guess introduce themselves because i find that so much more interesting to find out what you think an audience needs to know about you like what do you think the people listening to this need to know about you to understand your your context your work.

but things things we have been here on the pot at a big fan long time listener first time color in my own words alexa vice president of wearable ables at meta the way usually described my job internally i tell people i think i got the best job in the world we're working on so when the hardest techno problems were working on building a new paradigm it's all stuff that i'm excited to use after being here for working a number of things we've overpast many times over fifteen years and counting i feel like got a great job try to build turns the future.

when you joined in eighteen with the effort that we have now read labs i mean you were uh you zealous about wearables and a lot of its enthusiasm for sports and athletics and the role these devices already played and for many people in their lives around fitness um obviously that was like you know you were somebody who was really of angela zing the technology's kid ability then what do you think has been the most what is surprised you the most in the five years you've been doing now so you went from being somebody who was a technologist and enthusiasts but hadn't been building these things now you've been building them for a while what's been surprising.

yes so i'm a long distance runner and so i've been you know i think those of us who do and i've done the boston marathon i thing us is we've had wearable ables for really long time i had my first garden and watch and i over fifteen years ago and i think for sport use cases wearables i think i started to take off first because it's this place where you know if you're running if you're on a fifteen mile run one you don't want to bring a lot to stop with you into some of these use cases like i do need something that can accurately track that if i get in troubles and out there for about a hot day i've await to contact and get in touch with people ah you want a list of music at a long time you go a little bored if you don't have that with you and so i want the reasons i was excited to work and variables i ve been using variables les for a long time i felt like i could see that i was starting to hit where there are places were obviously won't bring laugh top with on the line but you wouldn't a phone or other devices and so i could see IT and i think the big thing has happened less five years but a lot of technical center and so these devices i used to think of hate their great for athletes now starting to see uh do different jobs and kind of be e c people who are not serious apple to start awar even fitness services.

so there's two vectors then one of which is if you're dedicated athlete the expenditure is worthwhile because you're advertizing IT across a large number of uses uh the prices have come down so if people who are more casual it's some better value and then also there is something to a capable the value that they have for everybody he's gone way up um and i think those trends are going to continue but i want to call out where is still bills to me like the promise of whereabouts ahead of us um like i know i have have tried every kind of smart watch and and the only one i really stuck with is a golf when i play golf of a garment that's really really good for for golf i don't need to bring like a bunch of no actually i just wear the watch and it's prety great but i'm always like i try i keep trying to use them for yourself i'm not somebody who's engage regular atheistic i lift and if things like one of the few places that i find the words have not really kept up like it's like the one thing i do is the one thing that wherever have not really conquered yet they don't know what i'm lifting how much waited is what the lift is so so for me at least IT still feels like most of that promise is ahead of us even as is to become more more common would you do that.

i definitely think there's a lot more space but there there be a bunch of mean the other thing you image as barry life also but i member i did watch i the batter making IT all the way through right now that's something after worry about but even even small advances like i can go for a run now a long run and if my wife caused to get in touch with me economy i can do that were previously that would have been hard but i do think you know you're still seen i think you're see in some such cases and i think some advances to that more and more people are using is for more that's where the real opportunities yeah.

when for me at least i think you get past fitness you mentioned IT a little bit communication is one that like they do kind of in in a glancing way but it's not a great experience yeah i think they just got cragin ing more use cases beyond just being a fitness device but i think is kind of where they've landed in the in the popular psychology of wearable devices today um now you are somebody who is almost you know you're obviously someone is tremendous into athletics and fitness and you always get yourself in trouble once beating marsa burg in in a partial contest.

he takes second he took the second.

for this that's right um and and um in spite of that incredible difficult that you have minor to arise the great heighty.

career so congratulations to you i'm surprised i'm still here that i'm allowed to love here is the first time i met marks way if he did introduce me as the only guy in the company who could beat him in a push hop count.

um yeah so i want to come back now you mentioned or ryan which for those who don't know at home um you know we launched at a big connect conference just recently we announced it's an internal project so launch of the wrong where we announced i went to real of glasses we started building these we started doing the research for these ten years ago we started building them in earnest a little more than five maybe six years ago talk us through for the people who haven't heard about IT what's the high level overview horion.

so iran is what we believe is the first true pair of augmented ted reality glasses that you can wear got this large field of view display which allows you to see when we talk about augmented reality i think it's kind of it's a journey the industry of a shared definition which is you're looking at the physical world front of you and you're able to overlay digital content right on top of that whether that's an arrow on the street where your school was to turn from navigation that having look at the screen whether that's a virtual t v and while to buying a physical one whether is a digital picture frame of your kids in your office in in order to have that vision you need wanted to speak glasses otherwise there's no way to kind of put that digital content on the fiscal world too IT asked have a really big field of view so that you can see that content and there is a clip in kind as you move your head around and three IT has to be a good forming factor and so ryan solved for those things it's a seven degree field of view which is very large i think the human killer of views around ninety so it's taken out most of that it's in a glasses forever factor it's nine grams so the less than one hundred it's pretty comfortable to where the battery last two to three hours of activities so on the displays let up ah we solve for a number of things but beyond the technical breakthrough and that's got you nine custom silicon chips in IT is a lot of really hard technical problems anything it's i think notable about IT is we've got some use cases you can put IT on and there are stuff that you can do that i think the experience of people have been having with IT whether you're doing a video call or you're in a recipe from the great in front of you as then people are seeing IT and like hey this is pretty good like these are things that i'd wanted do because papp battles technical the other half is what i use this advice for why do i want this to be great.

yeah i want to read a couple things for the listeners what if if there they don't look good you want to wear them IT just doesn't matter and these are a little chunk y but they're unmistaken of the glasses and thankful chunk y glass are kind of in style right now so we we got a little good trend to taye and would you really weren't expecting that to be lightened that you will wear them for the duration of the battery life is in ninety drams but They actually are not bad. The rail waited the weight and a cut baLance over the year and we had people in the in the demos wearing for the full battery life and really not complaining but the weight at all. Um and there's all these tremendous chAllenges, but the most important thing for you at home to to be thinking about is like these are a if you put this on, you would have an experience that felt like um the first time use a smart phone um where there's like there's an Operating system and able to control IT pretty directly and you understand how to do that really quickly.

And then when you do that, there's apps and you can be watching a youtube video and you can do a video call and you can watch thrown the web like you can do all those things and all you're wearing is glasses. That's not totally true. There's two other components. The system.

Do you want to walk to those? right? So the the a lot of the compute for the device happens on a separate puck, which you it's wifi and a blue tooth connectives.

So just kind of been the same room that you're in. And then one of the biggest deals is input. So if you look at each of the different computer paradise, whether it's a laptop or phone, input was a really big deal of how to use these devices. And we spent years is trying to figure out what the right interaction model could be for ryan. And where we landed was he use your eyes as a cursor, and then you need a way to build, to click.

And for while we were trying to use hands and say, to hand track in front of you, but ultimately we thought, if you're on a subway, on a plane or at public, when your hands will get tired, you and moving also, you look on to wear and and so the eyes give you that, disagree, cursive. That's the third piece, which is we have a neural interface band that you wear in your risk that um were able to track the signal sent from your brain, your muscles, check electrical signals and allows us to detect simple gestures like clicks, whether it's an index page or a middle pinch. And that same tackle I was to do more complex things over time. Very excited about the bin.

Yeah this is our citizen on the podcast before when we had weird and on to talk about control labs s and and one thing is just we don't think about as much as because we use these computers and phones every day. It's like, yes, of course they work this way that of course telly should work, but it's not how it's not true. Like IT turns out these are all innovations.

And in the case of direct manipulation, a mouse or a touch stream, those go waight back in computing to the fifties and sixties ah the keyboard goes that even farther back to the telegram. And you know so there has been some mechanism for us to control IT. And if you're walking around with these really cool glasses on, um you can you you not going have a keyboard with you, just not going to have a mouse or controller, you just gonna have IT.

It's so yeah you this computer pock, you just talk in your bag, you talking your pocket, you don't worry about IT and then you ve got to race that on and it's pretty convert that. What doesn't look weird, look a tally Normal kind of close bracelet about an inch across and around. Imagine this at home.

You do have to kind of imagine a screen that you can see through that is at rest completely, just Normal glass. You just see the world around you. There are a few little whisps of rainbows, not rainbows, the little bit of a kind of light that will get captured but not super distracting little ghosting.

Um and then when you call IT to action, you can like summer a full devices, capabilities, tear eyes and still see the world behind IT. IT is like I don't want I do think it's an important thing. We will understand that this is a milestone moment, we think and tell me about how the reactions been, the response to these demons. S has been over the last couple weeks.

but journey's been pretty positive. I mean, it's been the funny thing is, has been such a journey to get here. I mean, we put these eyes.

We talked about the new interface ban, and we talked about the big display. But it's not until you've got everything working you and working together that you can really, really picture IT. And for years, we've been looking at different components of IT.

We've been china. Imagine what gaze input could look like when it's really dial and was really accurate, the neural interface. But know that I didn't work for you for the years, right? yes. And and that's just because um it's new technology, we're bringing IT to market.

But once it's already when it's all work, you know you're using in kind of a flick with an early in the face ban to control reels do in a double penge the hand behind your back to like a given piece of content, think people have the experiences a bit of magic as they come. The other, it's one has been really positive. And we remember the first board meeting, and we went into where we had to go and update on the right and and we wrote what I thought was a really accurate create read.

I stand by. I was a very accurate period. And the immediate, if you actually got from the board was really understand.

I see have you and you I think you're still doing that. And I I appreciate that is a kind of a homaro medicals ture. We try to be humble about these things.

And in respect that know there's a lot. We see all the chAllenges, we see all the shortcomings. The response has been much a overwhelmingly positive and and much kind of even more so than we hope to, to dream to you imagine that would be.

And and I think that's very much like you said, it's not any one components, not a tech demo is the system came together and IT feels um natural and usable. And like of course, IT works this way and none of that is easy. And and I feel bags and you know for those who who listened me for a while, you know i'm not want to be self congratulatory.

I I like you. I D tend to see all the shortcomings in the problems, the chAllenges. And there's still quite a few in this device, at least of which being is too expensive verse to bring the market.

You started this program six years ago. We had hope to build to bring this product to market, and we just couldn't do IT with the cost that I ended up being to produce each unit. And so we're doing IT as a demo in in advance of future units that we're going to able to self. We have several products in development that are based on this technology that are glad to try to deliver the promise of this technology to consumers that at a manageable Price point. So I don't mean to be self congregate or I do see all the shortcut ings, but the response has been overwhelmingly positive in a way that I think many of us really necessary start coming, probably because we spend so much time taking about the shortcomings.

Yeah I mean, the headline response i've heard IT, is that people they consist in in headline that were hearing people as they feel finally seen something that they believe incredibly replace phones at some point .

that I was incredibly here people like and say that people who are really of respect so much and they're independent of us and there maybe the first one to say the opposite if I didn't believe IT um you know it's funny, as i'm reminded Michael brush, of course, the keeper of all our history in red lab, our chief scientist, he's given this quote before. In fact, he was giving us this quote ten years ago. H on the iran program has started.

This is incredibly president he talked about when Steve jobs uh arranged visits to go to ziua k's park to see the alto um which is arguably the first ever personal computer built um certain ly the first one that we would recognize in by modern standards as a personal computer in terms of both not just the system and the the display but the keyboard, the mouse, uh networking printer. The whole bit Steve jobs arranged through an investment to get two visits to the alto and i'm going to put to the quote a little bit but the quote was something like you could quibble about the details but you couldn't doubt that this was the future um like he does but and that is exactly the experience that I had the first time the orion offer was up as a list. You can quit about all the details of every single piece of technology, but you can't argue that this is the future like you just absolutely said, and believe IT and IT is a testament to shipping.

We've learned more about this part. We learn this product in the last three weeks of having IT. Then we learned in the previous of five years of building IT, you know, all these really tRicky questions of, hey, when you do this, should do that or should I do this? And you're trying to do the best that you can and you build simulators and you build experiences in the quest pro that emulated and you build all these things. None of them answer the question for you as efficiently as having built one. And then the questions starting themselves so much more readily isn't amazing.

IT is, I mean, in the one other parts about working in the augmented reality and wearable able spaces, there is no shortage of great ideas. yeah. And you can debate some of these endlessly to actually have something built.

You can put IT on. You can try IT. You can prove a describe with theory pretty quickly. But, you know, my job is to stare the dashboards and the percent said and how often things are working or not working. And so I think we especially culture wise, if they you're right to find out we get lost in the everything, it's .

networking, get right? Culture wise. Shipping is this thing that build intuition like where where our own little machine learning being actually and like there's just no substitute for the data loop that once you're in IT starts to feel on itself and you start to get build more intuition, you make Better earlier decisions than you're testing those decisions earlier, making you even Better.

And that's so new, there is no substitute for IT. Okay, knowing where we are now, we've got this prototype. Um we're doing international development on IT. It's really rapidly now hoping our intuition on use cases, on what's important in the technology, what's not as important as we as we thought. What do you see as the lessons that were starting to take as we looked towards the products that were building for consumers?

Or one is we've got a number of components up and running now that we could not a dear point earlier, we can ship some them sooner or we can get them really about in before we're ready. Launch our consumer version of joy, our glasses, the neural interface ban. A great example of that.

Now it's now it's looking pretty good. I think that was a take away a lot of people had when they tried the demo that I was intuitive that you didn't need to do much on boardings for IT. So I think of the texas, we've got a lot of things that we can leverage, custom silicon PS.

The bigger thing for me is what we learn in the feedback loop, to your point about use case, as we should have internal, if we can try a few things were a lot Better than we thought they're going to be the video internally before we had advice. Why would you want to do a video call? Advice on a fold? IT works fine on the phone. I think this is that is you don't need to hold your head up .

and from you is for the people home. You can't imagine how delayed, but you calls how this thing and wearable to intimate your face through a code gator program. And so like you to another person, you look as close to you as you can and you're not only a phone off and you're going about your day .

and a totally gain train, just having, no, I got doing IT to Carry out the device on of the stage. Now, say, having only one hand to open a brief case. Love hard to and you you can generalize this too.

I was trying to teach my five year old the other day how to use the saw. And I will tell you, having one hand to look at the instructions of my phone is really quickly. Yeah, could have been dangerous.

So so these these case, like video calling, is an I S one. And there are some other these cases that we are cited about for like years turned out to not be as greatest. Without that would be chest, I think, is proud.

easily succeed there. I turned up, I didn't have instantiated. I would be physical object between two people who are both were in the glasses is very cool. Chess isn't the one IT take a very unusually kind of fitly thing to do like your fingers, like the precisions is very high and like it's not really worth IT that actually just easier to probably get a chess board on your phone and like make moves, be your phone, or to have a two t chessboard between us that we like easily manipulate.

There is having a three d cheswardine tween us that feels very fuzzy, right? Meanwhile, though, we put the pong game between us, which is this, that kind of just a very simple but three dimensional palm game, and you you don't even care how silly you look to people who can't see the game. Is that so fun? Yes.

you got and you got a head.

Get to the alex. I routinely trying to trade high scores in various internal things. Um so I think for us at least, this is the learning loop. That word for use cases is a critical piece of IT.

Um and we do feel pretty optimistic now about this idea of conStellation of devices we ve got okay, you ve got some compute somewhere IT could be on your puck IT could be your laptop. Could something else that could be in the cloud like you've got some compute somewhere. Um you've got A A neural interface probably powered by a respite that could be more than a respond or could just be a respond.

You've got glasses that have a display. You've got audio that have got sensors. Um we've recently renewed your team from augmented reality to variables talk.

It's it's a subber shift that I want to over emphasize like all we name things, therefore you like we to turn into IT. I'm i'm generally in clients very brutal, less naming, but that actually kind of a meaningful ship. Can you talk more about that?

Yeah, I think this should just just acknowledgment that we don't need to. We're talking about a right a lot, which is true augment to reality. I think the the flip side of that is the reading from augmented reality variables is just the acacia wood.

During that, we don't need to get all the way too true augmented reality before we start to see scale of wearables for sure. A I the thing that enabling that he talk about you I talking before about um how people were very into fitness or at least distance running in a cycling and skin and others have been kind of early to wearables. And so that's I think that's where you've seen product market fit today.

You've got IT in the the fit and athletics communication, we said, is the thing that is starting to go toward you. Yeah, you can walk around on a phone call without a phone. The days is we're in.

Ironic as that sounds, message is an extension of that. But the stuff that you haven't seen that I think all the way ring, you start to get entertainment use cases. You can sit there, you can watch a video, you can browse the web.

Productivity as well, and kind of in between is A A i've got these devices. They can see what you see, they can hear, you hear they're able to help you go about tasks. And um we are already seen that with the raban metal glasses there in the market today. The of these cases are still capturing photos, videos and a great blue two that set for a different device. But A I is starting to pick up. And we announced a number of pretty big um we have a number of these cases that were pretty excited about a connect recently, and we're going to be investing in a whole lot more in the current forever factor, other forever factors and just lean into A I in the .

world of space yeah the A I is the fastest growing future of the the metal band the metal glasses. AI is the fastest during future of the raydon etic glasses um and talk actually think it's worth going to this. So this this is where we've been a little time previously about this, but onesta been very theoretical and it's been so amazing just this last year as all the thereto, al is going to tangible very fast.

Two years ago, when we were designing what is now rab da glasses, they didn't. We didn't even have A I on the radar. IT was even a thing.

We were designing them. A year ago, we launched them. And you have gone on a crazy scramble with a few months left before law to get the A I ended glasses in working and IT works beautifully. And then in the last year, we ve added the ability to then give the AI access to the camera so IT can see what you're seeing, uh, and give you answer questions about what you're seeing a we call multi model A I and then we're now adding the ability to set reminders to what that is crazy. We ve made so much progress in just a short period time.

yeah. Well, good, great story, said the river. We debated the aba metal glasses.

A yeah, absolutely.

Because, you know, before A I came along or before A, I was advancing at a rate much fast than expected. We are looking at the aby and stories product. We were then looking at the next generation baby metal glasses and think we are just worried that there wasn't enough of a leap in tell what you can do with the device, that the camera was much Better, the audio was much Better, the mike performance is much Better.

But is IT was not enough to justify a launching any device, especially we were trying to make sure that um were being budget conscious and take a look at the road map and then I still remember remember I was driving down the road. I was not a saturday I D four year old, the back in the car sea, you get a text messages for what I messages for mark when he comes at you. A super long message, the very long, but keep coming.

The first I ever the headline of one being, hey, maybe this could be an AI device and I pulled over to the side of the river. Be way, what's up all driving something I do when I got the kid in the back, or in general, and went back and forth. I mean, there was such an obvious idea, and I insight to look, but such a great idea, and we spread the goodness.

Ss, is we are already working on A I for wearable ables. We were just targeting in future. And so we were able to call the team, call leach, called hidy, call IT, get them out as but we got our lean in here.

This is like an opportunity we can cannot pass up. And so we're able to pay with hundreds of people. I am mark was message on a saturday.

I think by tuesday, we have hundreds of people to lean. The AI advice meant we came in pretty hard. You know, we announced IT a connect last year.

The multimodal functionality, which uses the cameras, didn't roll out until the following springs were obviously working as fast as we could on IT. But once you've started using IT and it's still in the fast current feature, still have some room for growth. But um I use that.

I use that every day. I've got two Young kids. I got to find eight old.

You've really have this too. There can't asked to me be questions. Yeah, that's rote. The first stone of this month. How long as a saltwater crile? I can ask me now, at this point, asked me to ask metaphor that's so that's a trend.

And then the multi model A I and the things we announced that i've started using, the most one is text actions. What we are calling text actions, I think, is a really big deal. I got my car service the other day and I just looked at the business card at the phone number and said, call this number group and they got in that I was connected um the other thing video more than I.

So you think it's powerful to send a photo to AI video is a much big deal. So um you're able to get much more casual information with video frames and you can open up this session. So now I recently in this party whole sites.

So I recently bought a meat slices and I was trying to requite myself with, you know how what setting should you do for sliced and tomatoes? Where is turkey? Is iceberg glitters? And I said that I worked phenomenally alth y that.

yeah, I think this is learning. This is great. You keep planning a seeds for the future.

I want to come back this meat slices, tomato slices question, I think talk all I think I think permeate this is unappreciated. We can say that AI is unappreciated IT. It's a topic of a global, international, daily conversation.

But I do think right now it's seen as this very other thing worth like you go to a place and you do the A I and then you come back um and what's interestingly that that is in the history of field, the story of computing and J C R liquid der, in particular, his vision of human in the loop computing, which was this pioneer idea he pursued that funded. They have a research institute where the mouse in interface was developed, where window in interfaces were developed, where hybrid inks were developed. Like these are incredible ideas that he had, this idea that humans, we're going to be interactively with IT.

We've got into the point where we can be interactive with the AI, but they're not where we need them. Like broadly speaking, the air like in a place where I have to go to IT, I open an APP and I can ask the question. What's amazing about these variables is that they are they have access to all the contacts you have access to as a human like they have access to h audio, video um streams.

Like if you see me, you grant to the access. And so there's so much more useful, you have to provide a lot less of the detail and historical speaking. The thing that was knowing that computers, as you had to be incredibly precise, right?

Like you know, you do, you go to search on your phone for instagram and you must type IT to instagram but it's like, sorry, there's no apps called instagram and no good. How do you not know? How are you this dumb? Like you say you the smartest thing ever invented by mankind.

How are you this dumb and and and so whenever you are having to translate into typing, especially um like what the question is that you're asking you just you can even do IT um whereas you start to build expose the originals of visual information and the audio information, the context that you have the A I comes to you um and so what's the same? Ai but like it's not it's after a much a Better baseline start. This just feels like a the part of the A I trend is not well understood, is like how much the A I how much more I can do if we give up the the context totally.

And I think one of the features we launched, the reminders you you know came from a place of when I go to the airport, I park my car there. I used to write down on a ticket, sure, where I parked to seven floor and what color. And then I started taking photos of that on my phone a few years ago.

I just have these albums and albums. And then the idea that I can just say, remember where I parked because i'm going to come back four or five days later. And then its index now with meet, remind, where one of the intuition here, we use a research and understand issue. Notice people take a lot of photos with their phones just to remembers that I look. And if you could make that faster, easier, just feels like, guy, i'll help people in a lot today.

Yeah if you get to the point where the battery life in the censors are good enough, which rather sty working on, that they can be always on and now you don't have to say anything. You just you know take your you leave you just like live and later you can query. This idea of a quarter life I think is so fascinating.

Um and I want to be clear, we're thinking about IT with all do respect to privacy and up in how people can do IT and very likely that this data isn't accessible to the consumer. In fact, from a computational standpoint, it's probably ripped apart very low level at the sensor level to feed the AI what IT needs to know. But you're going through your life and being able to query your own history and your own experiences. IT feels kind of a can credit how your superpower IT feels like you suddenly you just levelled up in terms of what you're capable of the species yeah.

And I think we and I think the right way to do is, is know where the things is. A I right now is I think IT feels too much like a blank chemist to people you like. You have got this text box, you can put anything in there. And every time I try to install these people to, they can look at me like, cool.

What a two example look, image a people does. Like, look at that, I guess like, cool.

I mean, to use that one. yeah. But I think if you build out some specific things where it's very useful to someone and you've got a tight privacy controls around IT and it's clear how IT works, then I think you can certain move from their c idea of modes.

It's something that we're very excited about. And now I was talking about slice in a sandwich. And so that was that was a mote like it's gonna me and be sliced in a sandwich. And I wanted to have as much context as you need right now to help me make a good sandwich. And I heard myself I have been an emergency room previously her so i'm trying to repeat, but I think you can imagine, you know whether that's meetings at work or other use case where we can have kind of clear boundary around IT .

and expectations for people. Yeah absolutely. And for me at least you I want to be clear, we're still a little ways off of this, mostly from like a battery life in sensor capability perspective.

But IT is all those things where if we've had demos internally of IT, and it's pretty magical um to be able to just ask like arbitrary questions about your own experience and and get the full fields read back to you. And it's kind of interesting the ta pect on that um and for you, obviously of those are same with related um which I I appreciate. So we to get into IT, I said as always with with we go through a couple deep that we talked about iran.

We've talked about wearables. Now we are talking about sandwich es. You work in a sandwich shop at some point, like a famous one.

maybe famous to me, famous to the residents of champion iar.

which is very fast within you. Meet the president. Well.

yes, I still think which is so I gave in new york, come from new york. I spent seven years working in ling's little storage to apoyo, new york, which is phenomenal. Sandwich a to delhi.

We have salad, hot foods. Many things be on sandwich is sandwiches is the best. And IT was the town that the clintons moved to when Hillary was running percent. So they would come into the delhi, would built him at all the time today that guy loves delhi.

IT would go to sandwich ah go well.

he would come in for breakfast typically and they get m and eggs. He said there, and you know, was everyone compete to get to make that for him, pretty big onor. Hillary would come in, get coffee, coffee.

And I was prefer the owner, Richard lane, was named after every time you could come in and only get a coffee. And he was actively running for senate. He would try to handle a sandwich and say that's not enough. And he never accept that anybody from those guys he was, is a good. So I was just back there, I gather every time of an york.

okay. So what is your opinion on the proper learning of a tomato in a sandwich? Because this is a hotly contested internet controversy tapper battle where you would just give me that you got, you know, in your general sandwich you're onna have cheese probably going have some, let us, you know, some protein most likely meet. Talk me through where do you put the to to .

chAllenge the question first, I think is a very california question. The answer is that right?

Well.

there was a bigger .

the controversy when the the burger icon had like the tomato in the wrong place. No.

tell more on the east coast. It's all about the meat, right? sure.

I mean that that the entirety of the focus is on yeah, we're not buying processes were rose in IT fresh to the evan, how thick is going to be? How finally do slice IT and then the bread in the top is very limited, very limited options in in new york is in california. That's like the whole of the main event is top.

Well, I want to .

get coastal.

I I state college pencilled mania yesterday. My wife, penn state alumni and I ve eaten many of hope year in my day, and many antistius a very common. I have tomato on an italian sandwich and a hoggy in in, whether in new york, new jersey, in the fill great to field of area right there is there. They do exist, tomato.

And these have we enjoying to me as guess.

there was a huge conditions. Sy, but I will be, I just loving as much. There was a huge controversy about the a oji because google had the tomato right away is the bread. And this, this is a mistake.

That's a mistake. That's a mirela.

Get to add to get to IT. Yeah, you have to. There's two keys.

This, that was I if you put a little layer menes on the bridge, fine. You made a vapor berrier. And you can kind of a very forgiving at that. Let us works in your favorite. Let us is enough, as long has been properly dried occasions get that you know somebody they want.

they haven't been a good job that they are professional.

Um okay, so you you not your hero, you're slicing your own me, let's go back to the the of the east coast west coast. What bread? What california bread? Are you putting your sandwich es on right?

I'm embracing in the dash cranch you also I moved. Yeah I mean it's it's a local delicacy.

IT is and it's something .

you've never heard of on the east coast. But IT and the fact we had to order if people look at you like .

that yeah and I think I don't think the dutch have ever heard of IT either. It's called that charge um yeah so I hear you the problem I I don't love, I have already delicate the room of my mouth if I that trench, I would just have nothing left for my mouth IT is just IT is threads me a bit i'm a Sarah.

Do man straight you I I ve a sandacre sardou SaaS sardo's sana saro is my favorite um you know i'd like the refugee text of IT and IT doesn't destroy my mouth like death church which is I know is a unpopular the answer in some ways duch crunch is set at a local of a logo hit for its sordo. What meat are you sick finally right? And I see worth that real line and thin slicing where we're very paper thing.

Okay, least listen, west coasts, east coast, we all come together. It's too luck and biggie, it's into a world line on then you sleets, what are you? What do you slicing IT.

Turkey, i'm rosing IT freshly in my event and then that little last year for about a week. And then for you, it's this next next up is row beef and move into that direction.

Next I like listen and I live in a time and I give me all the everything that's kind of base my base target sandwich when I when I go back, that's mostly cheetah to be ana because i'm going to the pens of if I find myself up in jersey and getting a hoby, where is italian as I can?

I'm taking request. My plan was to bring my new beet slicer and some coolers in the back of my truck and set up some Operations here.

So I spent more time talking, which we around classes, which a sense of where we are here met a uh, on the other side of lunch today we're just talk in sandwich.

It's the application of the AI.

right? What doesn't we can keep doing this, alex， if people want to hear more from you on the internet, where should they look? Threats s threats. What's you are given the handle first .

initial last name, a emo on threats. One most recent piece of content there will be me walk and a yan out onto the stage at a great video of IT with the abyss. Dg lass is taken out there.

IT will listen for those you at home with. Thank you for joining us. You can, of course, listen to the boss to the future. Wherever you enjoy fine podcasts, you can leave me thoughts and feedback at boz tank on basically any social media that you want to accept for facebook, where in facebook s flash boz, thanks. You're tuning in and until next time.