DB Cooper, ExxonMobil & Corporate Espionage, and Ross Ulbricht's Potential Pardon
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Now row sounds like shit though, but hey, if you want to use IT, just edit IT look good, right?

Is hacks .

ever eager the word's .

most in the hats? Fifty two million dollars and damages in life, in the shadows.

on the rise?

Welcome to anger in the fact i'm Chris turbo, former FBI special over entire career and cyber current joint is always by hector monster friend in hot testa o host hectares a former black hat hacker who once faced one hundred and twenty five years in prison for us, many years of hacking under the code named baboo. Our stories collided in june two thousand and eleven when I arrest a tectonic convincing to work with me in the FBI actors, now a red teamer researcher and cybersecurity actor, hector.

how things go on? Hey, this is that everything is going to great. This here, relaxing, chilling and join life, had a great things given extended the weekend. So is you going imagine and what's more true?

And relax food in football in america, that seems what think's giving is kind of turn to the food, friends, family and football. Did you get all for?

Yeah, I get all for, with the exception of football. Listen for all of you. New york fans out there in new york tests your giants.

As you could imagine, i've lost my interest in the football in recent years. So I was the next play a couple times, having there throughout that little vacation. So that was pretty cool.

So yeah thankyou was good for me. Um I family came over, friends came over and then yeah, I didn't have much foobar either. I maybe had one too many burbs, my body. Steve brought over a nice bottle verbena. And so, widow jane, have you ever had a widow jane before?

No.

maybe. IT was pretty as pretty smooth.

I enjoy IT, so I enjoy.

Yeah, you know, I think, I think it's an older man's drink. I don't think when I was Young, I enjoyed IT as much. I can't take you with a little bit of eyes. I like, I like IT a little eyes. I think holder side.

yeah, yeah. Now, yes, say me, it's warm, I don't know, is a wear for me.

I've seen a lot guys sit in, sit warm burbo, but maybe i'm .

just well, that's a different crowd, brother. I think maybe as we're matching what will be experimenting with the warm burbo, I myself grew up. I first of drinking, you know, going out and bar hopping and stuff. And I was a Younger, i'm being too obvious but I start roof with um we step one burden. You don't want to .

talk about 你 waler。

No, no, it's the time. You know what I think about IT.

but how old do you you your first drink? You your first drink, not not like sip on you. You don't go something that when you had your first drink. IT was the first time I got drug. K, at the same time.

I can remember mine. No, no, no, no. I 是。 When I was Younger, I lost of family parties, and they always drink bud wise.

So but yeah the the .

the big red royal about the big, the big cans or somebody, okay, would drink I naked, they love so yeah, that's when I first try drinking and and drag a little bit but no, when I first got you want completely different time frame. IT was quite when I was, you know, eighteen. I did a big road trip to like midwest.

I was an old at home like a month, and I did a road should put a couple of my buddies on middle. The internet sounds so dorky, but we got completely hammed um because I mixed everything I had to kila. I had a cognize, I had scotching and brand and a IT was just a big mix and I was gone for like three days but IT was one eighteen and so oh really I mean.

in my bodies we started doing, I think he was like fourteen, which I I don't condone. I'm not proud of IT or anything like that. Yes, but the first thing we drink where that was called Mickey, Mickey, that comes in Green, a little bumble, be on top OK. And so, eighty eight cents for forty years, mult liquor. So you imagine how how well, tait.

imagine how. Boy, Chris rocket, that, yeah, well, you know, always my thing for a long time. And h again, this is, this is again, obvious, everyone of the the burbling one, I let you know.

But my big one was was hennesy Brown. I was big one hennessy for a minute. No, yeah, nice.

Well, did you see the exciting news that there may be in a break in A D B Cooper case for those hacker in the fed listens that don't replace this hacker and I have been um I would say obsessed. We've talked about three years now about the D B super case for those now db Cooper was the first first who hydrangea playing back in the day um over in the western part of the united states, over organ in that area.

Plane landed um all the passengers got off. If they had bombs, he took the crew up and he ask for two hundred thousand dollars and four parachutes. Ts um told the pilot to fly at a certain level um and he ended up jumping out of the plane.

E so back in the day the the plane had stairs and lowered in the back in the, the pilot from stop from front of the stairs were opened and he was gone. They found like twenty thousand dollars sit in the bank of a river, but that's IT one hundred and eighty thousand dollars. The man or the parachute ts have never been found, but IT looks like actor a break in the case this week.

Wow, this. And let me take you guys and Chris I, and it's going to be annoying for cry. I always like former F. B. I.

So I always asked to me these little goofy questions like what do you think about dev c Cooper um and when we've always had these these long conversations about who could be, i've lost the whole world to documentation on IT on the topic itself. So imagine my surprise. Imagine my interest when I when I found out that they might be a break. In that case, in the first person I hit up was Chris. A Chris, we think about this, think, was this guy, yeah.

But I was so interested, and I tried to looking after the fr, and I, we know I look at that.

Yeah, IT looks like .

there is this guy and Richard mccoy, who was he actually did a hy jacking in two years later or no, five months later, after D. B. Cooper asked for four parachutes again. So a lot of paralus, he was the number one suspect, the FBI. In fact, he got to a shootout with the FBI and I think one thousand nine hundred and seven two original beach really died um but I guess his kids now are saying they found D V. Cooper's parachute .

is basement so fans at city like forty years .

yeah so see, see if the F. I announces finally close in the D B.

Couper case.

That's crazy to be crazy if they found some of the money, but that so the FBI knew all the zero numbers, and the zero numbers never came back in the circulation. So, you know, I would say that this guy, if IT was, he did IT whoever the D. B.

Coup is. No, did IT for the glory know if he just said he want to take a plane for hydrant and give me four parachutes, they would have known something up or something weird. So probably asked the money and realizing that you'd never spend IT. But very exciting case if anybody ever wants to watch a netflix or youtube about IT, it's very interesting investigation.

Well let me ask a question on the personal side. So um so I know you couldn't really look look up the case when he was in the FBI, but as as someone that was interested years, you've look that all the different documentaries am sure with the different suspects was this racial coy someone that you thought could have been A D B Cooper or is kind of like a surprise for you?

Now I think I think he was the number one in number of FBI suspect and you watch all these documentaries, he was always listed just because he did IT. He he got caught doing five months later the same thing. Now i'm sure there's a lot of copycats, whatever there's a crime like that, there's a copy.

Cats, they do things. But you know, this guy is skill set in background IT all pointed to to him, except for he lived. You know, he never spent the money.

No one never found any evidence to connect them to IT. no. But you know, the mo a and the the skills of doing IT no IT all pointed to him.

wow. yeah. Well, listen, I i've i've been A, I would say, of the kinds that would look at all of the different suspects. There was a few that honest story I thought were D. B.

Cooper of character that was even this woman that was like, you know, talk about, yes, there was this woman that people said that could have been her, as he was like a hollywood stuck woman or something. And the theory was, if he wants to prove ourself, I do not hijacking in real life. I am not I was like, maybe was her because .

of a female suspect?

Yeah, yeah. I wow. Wo hey, listen. And for the folks out there listening, um this is kind of historic. This is a pretty big deal and at least for me, I don't know what you goes.

So burbs and six year old hy jacking cases that that'll be a banter for the year. So let's let's job into a couple stories in some listening questions .

to just do IT first story exon lobbies .

is investigated over a hacked and league of environmental emails so the FBI is investigating a long time exon mobile consulted a legged role, a hacked and leak Operation targeting hundreds of excise of biggest credits so the hacker is successful ly breached the email as of environmental activist, and has been going on since, allegedly since two thousand and fifteen.

That is insane.

So so yeah, I mean, we heard about IT. We talk about bit all the time you hackers for higher or you know companies higher in hackers to their break into companies, into the competitors and steel information. We blame the chinese. We're doing IT all the time breaking into companies and steel R N D. Um this is no one of the first times well in a log time that we're seeing the FBI actually investigating a major U S. Company um that employed hackers to go after their critics so you know let me ask you before we get too big in this story, like where you ever approached as a hacker for higher, did anyone ever come to you you know on the dl and say, hey sabo, we want you to to hack into this company because we want to get their inside information in or go after their critics or anything .

that ever happened in your life yeah yeah. That happens to me couple times. There was one big one a long time ago, two thousand two, or something like that.

Well, I was asked to break into casino during the height of your super able weekend. And and IT was, he was not a casino. Ted states was casino in south america. Let me tell you, I did not realize the implications of doing something like that during such a crazy time and and the people that they brought me in to do IT were like a competitor .

casino which the George cloe and bread pit that .

grew no IT was a computer to casino that wanted the traffic from uh, the super able weekend and yeah even did to write up on this on that hack. And I was crazy seeing IT even now seeing and now you know twenty years later, um it's it's crazy to me because I back then I was a kid, I was a teenager. I had no idea what I was doing.

I said, yeah, i'll break and sure. Why not? What do you want me to do? Oh, just take on the website during the superb as we going to do and you you have to destroy anything. Just get back online after you done and as always took ah yeah this this is a very .

real thing that's crazy. So just for a clarification on the story. So the axon they hired a public affairs and lobbing company called dc I group. And then dc I group provide those names to his israeli private detective. And then that is really private detective. He then outsource the hacking um the private detective in israel's being he was arrested this year in he throw when is fighting extradition charges united states uh charges of hacking and fraud um but just you know further IT photoshop cuts uh did secure a conviction of a former business associate for wire fraud two thousand and twenty two and also for community hacking in a legion dentist theft so this guy is tied into the hacking world. His foreign business partner you know has been arrested and convicted he's been just so there seems to be some more to some of this activity that the exxon was using, you know through a couple of different people, couple different layers deep, but hire inhabiting ers to go after their critics.

This is a song familia mean, we kind of saw bit of that during that the whole hb gary federal thing, right?

IT sounds very familiar to people to know our story, know people definitely. So for those who don't know that I have a White wash this as much as possible, i'm sure people can kind of figured out.

But um while hector I were working together um at the FBI, hector was approached to do some hacking for an organization and that blew the little of, I mean, I remember you sent me that information and you send me a video of the actual person you to show proof that they were the person to asking you to do this that and I didn't reach out to my boss that night I was what was to do oh my god, i've got my ask you out for that no yeah yeah. Some that pig supposed to go I mean, so I went from my desk to the director's desk in about three minutes. The ad, the head of the new york office, um you know, he was up on the twenty eight floor.

We were down on the twenty third floor. I mean, he was downed in my cube within two minutes. No, yeah, I mean, IT went up.

They went fast. I guess that was a big deal to me. I was just tired.

Ed, going to get some sleep. sure. Okay, this, this will some will do tomorrow. Do you member, that night when you were reached out to the for the hack?

Uh, I think so yeah, I was. The thing is, i've had, I had so many people reach out to me for things like the whole room, whole L A time thing. That was another one that was really bugged out.

There are a lot of people within organizations, within, you know, certain places that that wanted to bring an outside adversary to come in and cause a little drama, turn things up or hack on their behalf. And yeah, I IT was a lot of that stuff, the notice ones that once you just mentioned right now and of course the other one I mention prior to that um but yeah, that happens a lot, folks. Listen back when deedless for higher was a big thing.

You should remember that I was a big extortion run. This was before you know cloud flared, blowing up. And i'm sure it's still happy that is day or right because you could still take a sight down without even IT is being behind cloud fy because still take a side time and could identify is back and infrastructure and start painting those off. You know.

it's fun. Bring up the d stuff. So for those who know back in the day with lot of sites were being put off line because they are being dead, it's distributed denial, service attack IT just means sending a bunch of information to your server, to your server falls over and can do its job anymore.

But there is A D dos mitigation company in the united states. And I could a sore that they were the one doing all the d dosy. Because what I learned is that they opened they even to get a phone call.

So your companies being dest your server cancer if you can't sell your your goods and where is online means your business goes to goes to crap um for them to pick up the phone call from you for forty thousand dollars initial charge. So how of a business and then the idea stops, like ten minutes after the phone call, they will rewrite the traffic and they have a huge pipe and all that. I was like that sounds fishy.

So I started investigating all of them. I started getting into IT and then the city that this company was in. So I started sending a bunch of leads down there for them to to do some surveilLance that we're just going to take this case over.

Are you can I match you the state, not the city? sure. Is that the one from ohio?

No, no. This a different one, a different state.

I remember there was there was a very similar Operation out of ohio. Um for those you've been around for question time. The F K. I took them down.

Um they were called food at ever hear that, Chris? They got the owners invested at all party minutes of dollars to do the data center and then they use a data center to dose client or victims and then they would do the same exact thing. They will wait for you to call them be like, yes, we will take care to do those mitigation for you. You to charge your example t dollars.

We have such a large pipe, they can take us off line, will put IT through there for the pack. And really.

they just then turn off the attack.

Exactly what a business what a business proposition this was.

yes. So this case here is interesting because imagine this imagine a scenario where you know x on wood of higher this dc group to targets competitors than that would be more like corporate despite because that you would have these ebisu de is breaking into competitor uh oil production companies or what have you to pull information, maybe statistics, maybe some details, financial data um and but it's very close to IT. It's like I said for the audience here, this happens quite a lot and to see these cases our reality but is interesting to say um I am not sure is that the FBI suppressing in to this stuff is just that sometimes finding the evidence for this stuff is difficult right.

but is still an open investigation so no no one you been charged and well, I guess this guys been try this p has been charged but we haven't seen all the documents they found the FBI has said the dc I did share the the act information with x on before the leak so um for that to be put out there is good. Is pretty damming. He gets x .

on can I question cause you so this EXO on dc I group case again, like I said, a rare devoted to hear about IT. If you were to estimate, give us like a general number, how many of the similar cases do you think they have been are investigating um you know are really about a dozen a hundred because I thought they have been a nose of of other similar cases. What would you be able to put the .

numbers at that? Again, this would just be a pure guess on my end but just knowing like the number of cyber er agents and the number of resources is able to put in decide a case this big IT probably dozens yeah you know what IT gets to but I I would go to bet there's party thousands of instance of IT happy out there. It's too easy. It's too easy for these companies to you know get away with IT so well, these guys must have had .

terrible Operational security if they got called up the way he did and they are tracking IT back to either that contract with exam and that's I can't even imagine to find them how how that leaked down unless someone and x on rated themselves.

I think the car the clue on this one is, is that this guiyang business partner pleaded guilty. He played guilty. And I think I think you're going to see he's like, well, i'm going to pleaded guilty.

But guess what? I guess some other things to tell you. You never heard of exile.

That reminds me of biggie smalls. He made us soon. I've got to i've got to lose IT.

I've got a story to tell, right? Yeah so that that was the guy. He he gets locked top at f for something else and he a story.

It's funny. People keep going back and going through late court cases and involve axon, and they're finding more and more of the stolen data has been introduced in court as just you know, like information found on the internet. That's what we're seen a lot.

I did a case recently where I was like this guy got hacked into when they put all information on the legal tour and said IT was publicly available um so you know to hack the information and then leak IT out there and then be able then they can use IT in a court case was we didn't steal IT, we just bounded on the internet. But you know it's it's very shady. It's a growing problem and I think we're going to see more and more of IT and hopefully, you know, x on doesn't too much trouble for this one.

Now sure they're all right. Yeah.

i'm sure they will do so next one. So I wanted to russia, hacker, uh, linked to high and locked mate rds. Somewhere a groups was arrested. Russian media is reported that meko, and i'm actually, you tried to butcher's last name, you want to try IT.

So there is moko, half of rich mutv ave.

mut vive. Okay, I let you. I am not not good with that names. So he's been accused of developing in malicious programs and designing to encrypt files and seek ransom return for the description key. So the russian ministry of internal affairs says, at present, the investigator is collected sufficient evidence.

The criminal case with the addition ment signed by the prosecutor has been sent over to the court, so he was charged under part one of article two seventy three of the criminal code of russian federation. The creation used a distribution of computer code programs that can cause destruction, a blockin modification or copying of computer information. So the russians have charged him with written right of my group.

That's that's .

a that's a little strange. I would not not have expected that.

Well, look, there's usually two reasons why this happens, right? You see a couple of arrest by the russians. This usually two reasons why this happens.

okay? The reason number one, the adversary accidentally targeted a russian speaking country. Okay, that's one to the adversary did not kick up to the fsv.

If you guys know what I made the M. P, the right people. I'm going to guess that .

one of those who is probably correct. So he was a charged and died by the U. S. Government may of two thousand and twenty three for launched ransom attacks against thousands of victims.

So I I will say when I was in the FBI, we started doing a lot of russian hacking cases, and there were some good successes and work with the russians and all. But then I feel we sort of became the talent scouts uh, for the fsb. Um we would charge somebody.

They say, hey, the good hackers ago, you never get the body but will that just make a work for us? So I think the the americans, you know, at least my experience, stop doing that for a while. But that looks like we're back on IT.

So he has gone public about his criminal activity standing. That is a, this was his quote. This is your boy mek.

What he said, his illicit activities will be tolerated by local authorities, provided that he remains loyal to russia. So I think that settles your two comments about one web. Sy, I targeted a friend of russia or two remains loyal to me. Means pays up.

Oh yeah. Pace of of of streamed to the captain. Um and that's usually the case. I mean, it's very rare that you see russians targeting these adversary publicly. You know I may get kidnap here and there, you know you might disappear for a few few months and that comes back on line on the forms um but to do this publicly is is pretty bizarre for us. So yeah yeah.

ten million dollars on his head. That's what they they are from ten million dollars they arrest in orange Victor .

them the real. Let me tell you something and keep a real. I think that the united states, that was tool long because he calls pretty billions or more and damages, I promise you, the united states, we said, look, we've got to give one hundred million, we to put up reward of one hundred million dollars with this guy, you know, pull himself the hand, delivered a movie you don't mean would have drop them off in the last time. But like body take here.

So from what we're seeing from the charging documents is he LED a team of six panteley that Carried out the rents more attacks. Is that sound the right to you? Uh, developer and six pentecost ers for a ransom a group. Or do you think that's too small, too many people?

I think it's too many people, but I could be done. I me, look, we saw some of of the best hacker groups ever in history. You b between three and six, maybe ten, sometimes depending on the group, depending on what their motives are.

Um for rent sword group, that makes a lot of sense. You know you have a developer, you have someone that security exploits and in response zing them. And then you have the initial entry specialist, you have four guys targeting, identifying targets, making that initial entry.

And then of course, most to run the rest somewhere and and do sales and and you know of the finances, I could totally see a six men group Operating in a way is efficient and scalable, especially for rank, where is not rocket science whatsoever. And you know, you have to be extremely skilled or talented. If you guys are looking at and again, go online, type in a data breach reports, you going to find all bunch of a whole bunch of different reports. And in those reports, you see the commands the advisors are running and where they do in types and making a lot of mistakes, crashing servers along the way. Um so yeah sixty members that solely find that makes sense.

So let me ask you some, you sort of LED a team of hackers who didn't really know each other or in irr l, they call her in real .

life how the Young people say yes.

That's how the Young people talk. But he also ran into problems. You know, there were people that lead logs, there were certain people they got pinched, they didn't know, you know, and you didn't really have control. sure. Do you think it's Better to be a hacking group that sort of loosely affiliated like that where you may lose your logs, you may lose know someone may get pinched and you don't know they're doing behind? Or would you want them all together in one big room, working together at the same, same, same time?

That is a great question because a as a as a fan of, you know of history and a fan of films, a great example of why a loosely net organization may not be, uh, you know, some function um is a reservoir dogs. Reservoir dogs is such a great example of film. Yeah IT takes what five or six, seven different guys, they all have specialties, right? Once a bank rober, the other guys, a is a violent person.

mr. Blue, I think, was like their killer, right? Yeah, mr.

White, that was like the og, the old school gli. He's been a long, a long time. mr.

Brown was that I forget what I was surrounded. But the point is that they were all talented in their own different ways. They work together. They did not get along.

And when things hit the fan, right, when things just did not work out for a reward, dogs, the group um what happened they they had trust issues with each other. They couldn't work and scale with each other. They are questioning each other.

And an Operation like that adventures, you're going to fall apart. You would only build something like that if it's a thrown away if you're willing to kill all these people know we go back to the days of anonymous, you know, in low sec and internet fs, only different groups. You know, we were able to, I say we already mean k and I right and equate, and I us two were able to break into a born whole body systems.

And the city members, we're good at dissemination and so forth. But yes, they're a trust issues you cannot get along. And I had no idea which of these guys were agents.

And apparently after the whole loser case, uh, five out of the six wear informant or so I worked with the respective government. Obvious I didn't work out. Now if you take a group of five or six people that you know physically where the consequences are, no, they hate, by the way, we will do, described together.

And if any of you guys, rat and I catch you first when to kill you, I think that would maintain some sort of level of trust that goes a long way. But now you also have a eh of expanding your tax offices at the same time because at any moment, and this is another film, uh, what was that? The one with batman and and the joke that we like with he fleer was name in a movie.

So that film was fantastic because you the initial scenes when the joke sis of the Operation, they robb, the mobs bank, what was the joker doing, right? He gave everyone a kind of like a like a task. Once you complete a certain task with your team member, you kill them immediately and IT LED to at the end the only two survivors were the joker r and the bus driver, which of course the bus driver no no see to exist after I see. Um so yeah now you have I guess my point Chris long in the answer is that if you committing crimes, neither neither option works really well.

The best answer .

yeah yeah see I listen actually be the fba postboy me me a little picture and be like don't do the crime right um now this doesn't work because greed when IT comes to money is going be a problem and then sure is going to be a let's talk about the pink patters know out of europe the pink patters were really uh what we thought was sophisticated group of like juha also good worth of these guys.

They they would highly jewels okay um and so they were caught because one of the guys made some mistakes and IT was the Operative of security failure of the idea. Eventually some of the members went down. The other members didn't because he didn't write on each other.

At the end of the day, that Operation was semi successful because they kind of just held their tones. And those who caught we're called in the others are warm and called a party stones and one to this day, right? A great question. I gave me three different directions to answer IT.

It's a really good segway into our first listener questions. So hector, we talked about last week. We're blessed to have so many listeners to the podcast in so many people writing us and tell us are glad to have you back.

So nice to hear from you again. They're hit us at questions at hacker er in the fed back com. Um they got a lot of great questions.

I don't know going to get to a lot of them today, but lets try to being I wanted to um the first one is a great segway into what we just talk about. Moses rode high. Chris. Hector, thanks for the one of a podcast i'm waited with open years for the next one. Hector, my question is how did you know or trust Chris when he first offered you to work for the FBI and he wouldn't use that to too much and then throw you under the bus and put you in jail for the rest your life?

Look, IT IT is fantastic question because it's a very real question. I had to deal with the consequences of my actions, and I needed to figure out a way to do so that, you know, that met that my family would have be broken apart. So, you know, I had to, I SAT in and listens to Chris when he first not to my door and a little much in my apartment.

We SAT, if, like, an hour too. I forgot exactly the time, but I I was just listening to him, and I was analyzing him and analyzing the other people. I was socially the day I want to know who i'm going with and know some of his colleagues were kind of feel shifty and moving around, and they didn't really care.

Chris, the time and down and speak with me is very honest with me, is great up told me, do this is, this is stupid, like what you're doing is dum. Do you want to do a lot of prison time? You know for for what what exactly are you gaining others you about something you know um you have a family, you got to lose them, right? That that was a reality check for me.

And because he was so honest forthcoming with me, IT was easy for me to say, say, you know what I wanted, trust this guy, whatever that means you know, Chris could have turned around and only ask of Chris al, hey, just leave the girls here. You know um you leave the girls of my brother and and I I glad to go with you down to twenty six hundred thousand. He could have taken me in and still called C P, S, or A C S, your child protective services.

And he could have still had the kids take away at the end of day. But he know he did. He did the right thing.

He kept his word. Now when somebody keeps their words, me, I me a lot to me yeah no idea. That is a big one. Um but IT wasn't not only that, he was that he kept his word is very honest something that a lot you know I feel like a lot of his colleagues warm ant that way you know so it's easier for me to resonate with Chris rather than some of colleagues um and and moses, I really gave you a response, right I want to share with the audience here.

I'm hopeful that this next generation of B I agents, it'll you know whatever training they go through, I would love for them to sit down with Chris or maybe do a case study on Chris because Chris, such a great example of you know how what that means to be law enforcement but also be a human and to be professional here by helping on this woman. He was not unprofessional. Maybe he was for retraining me was just him on human side regardless of what IT was that inspire to be Chris that day um is what let us to us be Chris, happy today. So that's A I hope that answer your question is a great question.

Appreciate those kind words. sector. Thank you. So john road, in given the recent outcome of the twenty twenty four person election and without getting in too much politics, what do both you guys thoughts on a decision to partner commute the sentence of ross all break a stated by present trip.

Do you believe the decision undermines the efforts made by those who worked on this case? PS glad the show is back, baby. Well, thanks, john. Thanks for right now. Um so as hacked and I record this um we're coming fresh off just last night president biden pardon his son um so it's it's sort of in the news now presidential pardon and so let me let me answer john second question. First sector doesn't undermine no IT definitely does not undermine all the hard work and effort that everybody put you in on this case.

And for those that are kind of asking with john asking ross Albert was, uh dad pie Roberts um he ran a one point two billion doll drug empire on the dark web the silk road um I was the case agent on that case um and so you know this guys asking um did because president trump said while he was campaigning um that he was going to party let let ross out I am a huge proponent of the U. S. Legal system.

Um I think all the legal systems out there is the best one where you got um you are tried by your peers, you tried and fair court um everything is put out there. Um IT has its flaws, but IT has you has good parts. Um I cannot part of that is that you go before a judge, the judge makes the everything is legal.

Um part of that as you go before a day of your peers and they take the facts and move things forward. But also part of this little system is that we give the power of the present in the united states the ability to say that, you know, either for. Compassion or for whatever reasons, the ability to pardon and commute people sentences and let them go um so I can't like part of the system and not like all of the system.

You know i've recently been asked to speak to certain people. Um i'm not going to say who um but in the vast my opinion was or letting ross on a jail and and I don't have an opinion officially do not have an opinion um I just like to educate them on the reality of the entire case. Um there are a lot of versions of what happened in that case um that have been perverted over time.

We're perverted by the media um so I just like to provide the reality of IT of what really happened in the case, what was being done. Some of the people that were victimized um some of the brutality in the case um they talk about the murder for higher and they didn't happen. They weren't real um that's correct there were no murders that actually happened, we could attribute but there are were murders that were ordered paid for um and and thought they were came through.

There were drugs being offered to Young people. They just weren't available anywhere else um there were quantities and there were deaths. People did die from taking drugs from self growth. I've met parents whose children died for taking this so route. So I don't have in a position on whether rush to be let free or let not um the judicial system decided um that he was found guilty um his trial was a weeks long in the jury deliberated for three hours and had launched in that time found guilty and all charges um he the judge was sentenced to a two life sentences plus forty years um so all of his appeals have been um been denied all the way through the three different courts so then the way ross can get out is through a potential part um I just hope the people making those decisions are fully educated um in the entire case and not just one side of IT and not my side of IT either no I have a side of IT so you know I am happy to share that side with with people so um hopefully that message gets to the right people up. How do you have thoughts on this?

Yeah no I definitely have thoughts on you know how I feel about about drugs and the warm drugs and well.

for those who don't know that the hector's life growing up was involved in drugs like his family was around drug. So so he has a big background of that.

Oh yeah. My family members were part of an organized crime group called the champions. This was back from the eighties and one thousand, nine and nineties effect.

My ot was labeled, uh, in the state of new york of clean pin, which is is a state is not necessarily a monitor, right? Is not a sudden if if your charge is a queen paye or a king paigning in the city of new york, your automatic and facing life depending on the circumstances so my ARM was given something to have to life, uh, in prison for her involvement in in that group. But of course, the drugs and everything else he did drugs almost destroyed our family.

We are small. Try as IT is. And I put my family members away for a long time and this was storing the rock of final laws uh drug laws specifically um and so I have a strong opinion on on drugs and drug dealers and so but I am also someone that was facing you know my life in prison and I was given a second chance thanks to the help of of in work of Chris tarbell and and I can mention the prosecutor's name peggie .

Peggy was a huge top to you .

Peggy Peggy cross, uh, Peggy cross from the the the new york federal part of defenders office. Um the prosecutor was quite a gentleman and even uh the judge prisoner, you know he shoes a fantastic woman in in a hero in my eyes SHE SHE SHE gave an opportunity. So I was given an opportunity a second chance when I was literally facing once twenty five.

My crime was my crimes were dumb, but they were crimes nonetheless. And I accepted that because I was giving me a chance on my first time. I've never been a recent since, right?

I've never been a resource knocking wood. I was great. And no, I don't mean jay. I'm a square. If you guys, I would be a real life guys.

But now i'm square because I was my first time and because, you know, I did what had to do IT because I was going to, uh, a second chance by everybody have met so far. I am open to second chances. I think life is crazy.

I also think that murder fy higher socks. I would not condone that, but it's not my place to judge. I know nobody's judge. What I would say is if you get a second chance, I wouldn't be surprised or I wouldn't access by IT.

Um you know, at the end of the day, people make mistakes, specially when we Young ladies and chance, where were Young, were stupid. We do stupid things. We don't utilize concept special thinking.

right? I mean, what I will say one big differences is you stood up and you took responsibility for what you did and you said that was really stupid. That sucks. I don't think that happened in the other case, I think there is. But you know, Better resistance to that to take a responsibility for you did.

And that was a long way we judge just i'll tell anybody facing, you know, being sentenced uh, or you know, when you have when you can say, you know, I made a huge mistake, you know I was stupid. You know I I take responsibility and i'm sorry for what I did. You know you did that.

You know you you were very gracious about that there from the beginning. You know this is dumb. I'll do what I need to do um but I don't know it's it's a very sensible of subject.

I think they'll be more again. I just go back tell everyone that the stories you've heard in some of the other stuff you've read about IT is just wrong. I mean, I list to a joe rogan and podcast and joe rogan you know has has a lot of part of the story wrong. Um he he was talking about IT, so you know hopefully you the truth people make the decisions can find the truth and and then make A A educated decision. I I very pro educated decision, but I also you know I I am pro second you making a uh uh you get a second chance now I will tell you prior to me knowing you, I don't know if I had that same mentality but see your change in your growth and the you know the man you've become and the friend you've become. Um I I believe that second chances can work and I .

appreciate that brother. I really do because I I felt eo that's of brain like you know toxic mass community, whatever into this conversation. But I felt less of a man.

I felt like a complete golf when I couldn't be die for my family. I couldn't support my family. So I was important for me to come out and address IT and deal with IT.

And you know, very thankful of you. But I just want to see one more point on this. On this question. I think there a reason why are a lot of people are cut like the a lot people may have like um I would say an adverse response to this case in general is because there we're some bad actors there you know I don't even know some false and low force beside .

to make mistakes. Oh, two agents got arrested. I mean, yeah not part of mind investigation.

They were not part part of your case but because those bad actors existed in general around around the case it's triggered like the conspiracy theory yeah never went to trial.

no charges for the murder or higher and you yeah there's a lot of dirty things about IT and reasons why. One of the biggest reasons why is you know the in the trial in new york, he got two life sentences, plus thirty years, oh, forty years, if you get more than a chapel. And you know .

what is crazy? Kind of crazy.

Do we really need to have another try? What are we pilot on here? You know so in that other trial there were dirty things involved in the um like two federates that that stolen and we're arrested, went to prison and and serve time again.

Happy to have conversations people about IT but you know I think that's gonna wrap on the show today, hector. Um if you guys have questions, please, please, please reach out to hacked and I at questions at hacker in the fed. If you just have a question you don't want in the shows, say that willing actors, actor is great about answered.

He answers the questions really quick, also gives us five star reviews, share us some social media, tells your co workers, your friends, your family about the show. We do. They want to grow the show.

Heck, I love being back, love doing the show. Hecker, I always love talking to you, whether it's not a microphone or not on a microphone. I love our conversations.

Likewise for brother, always a pleasure.

Love to respect your brother.

Thanks for a great conversation.

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