Snow White And What's Making Us Happy
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Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs was Disney's first fully animated feature film all the way back in 1937. Now it's getting a high-tech reimagining complete with new songs, seven CGI-rendered dwarfs, and live-action leads. Rachel Zegler stars as Snow White, while Gal Gadot plays the evil queen with a magic mirror and terrible intentions.

Hello.

Hello. And rounding out the panel is entertainment journalist and contributor, Char Jossel. Welcome back, Char. Hi, Stephen. It is a pleasure to have you all here. So for those who've somehow missed the boat on Snow White until now, it's the story of a virtuous princess whose life is upended when her mother dies and her father, the

king marries a wicked stepmother. Soon enough, jealousy compels the evil queen to order a hit on Snow White, who flees and finds assistance from seven comical dwarfs. You've got your magic mirror, you've got your hi-ho, you've got your flopsy-haired Disney rogue who may just double as a love interest for our princess...

who may just be the fairest of them all. In the spirit of so many Disney remakes, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, Dumbo, and others, this new Snow White resides in an uncanny valley between animation and photorealism. But the story remains much the same, albeit with a generous assortment of new songs. Is she a part of me? Wondering will she appear? Or will I spend another year waiting on a whisper?

The new Snow White is in theaters now. Candice Lim, I'm going to start with you. What did you think of this new iteration of Snow White? Yeah, so...

I walked in really low expectations for this movie. I'm sorry, guys, but I found this movie quite comforting and charming. I know. I apologize for enjoying myself. I know. So here's my thing. I love the 1937 film. I remember as a kid watching it all the time, but I always found it very scary. Like the mirror and the branches when they're grabbing at Snow White. I just always found it very dark.

And this one I felt was very light in contrast. And I like that we get some backstory on what Snow White's life looked like before the Evil Queen came into her life. I thought that Rachel Zegler was good. I kind of think she brings like a strength to Snow White that I don't remember from the 1937 film. And I think this film reminded me a lot of

tangled just because it was bright and Rachel has like a Mandy Morness to her voice in some of her songs and then Jonathan who's kind of her love interest played by Andrew Burnap you know Flynn Rider coded leather vest duets and so I was kind of into it but I'm curious to hear what you guys think I was on the fence about this film I also walked in I didn't really have much expectation but

But I have to remind myself throughout watching this that this is a children's film. Okay, this is not made for me. I thought that Rachel did a great job as Snow White. I would consider this a musical. And I enjoy musicals. There was literally the 30 seconds of dialogue and then yet another song. I thought that Dopey was the star of this film. He really tugged at my heartstrings. When he cried, I cried. When he was happy, I was happy. Okay.

Other than that, this seemed like one of the cheaper Disney films. It just seemed...

Just the background and the way things were illustrated, it felt cheap to me. Like some of the lighting cues, just even watching this on the screen. And so I wasn't necessarily a fan of the film as a whole. And I thought that Gal's performance as the evil queen was not good. I wasn't buying it. She sounded great when she was singing. Let's dance!

You wear the crown to be the queen means you do as you please. But I did not enjoy her performance as the evil queen. I think it might not be fair to her because I was walking in kind of like anticipating like an Angelina Jolie Maleficent.

type performance. But that's just not in Gal's wheelhouse to bring out that type of performance. So yeah, I think the kids will love it. The best part was Snow White going to the forest, like, you know, being banished from the kingdom. I loved those effects when she was like going into the forest and going to the Seven Dwarfs house. But other than that, the five-year-olds will love it. Yeah.

Char, I'm going to try and not repeat too much of what you said because I have actually onboarded pretty much everything you said. I will say... Candice, on the other hand. I know. I have to be the supporter here. It's crazy, but please continue. Look, I love that we have a range of views. Sure. If I had one good thing to say about this movie, it is that scene where Snow White is banished into the forest. That one seemed like it was echoing the original animation of the scene from the 1937 version, but it also looked kind of cool. And

I wish that the production design had been more like that. Like it was very dark and kind of black, but then you have like these red neon lights and it gives this very kind of like

I don't know, hot topic, but like elevated hot topic, like, you know, aesthetic to it. The store. Yes, like the store. Like it had that sort of like artistic... It was a little Alice in Wonderland to me when she falls through the hole, hits the water. Yes, that too, that too. I wanted a little bit more of that. And the rest of the movie is so kind of like weirdly washed out in these sort of like gray, harsh tones. And so it takes away from that. But besides that, like I did think overall that like...

The music was lacking. This is one of the live action, they're calling it a reimagining. So it's not, I will say, it is not like a shot for shot, nearly shot for shot remake where it's like you're not doing anything completely different with this film. They did add several new songs. But my problem with these new songs, which were done by the songwriting duo Pasek and Paul, who have also done Dear Evan Hansen, La La Land,

shows and movies I'm not a fan of either. You got winners. Okay. But like the problem with these new songs as we heard at the top is that they all kind of have this like very contemporary musical theater vibe that we are so used to now and that like does not add anything new to the canon. And when you put those up against like Hi Ho and Whistle While You Work, it's like,

I wanted them to at least try to make the song sound a little bit more period, like of a different era than of the contemporary. The blending was not working for me. That's all I'll say for now. Steven...

I want to hear what you think about this. I mean, interestingly, the element of this film I felt was the strongest were the new songs. Yeah. I love this. We're all over the place. It's great. We are all over the place because, honestly, part of it is, like, I'm not a big Snow White guy. Yeah. When I go back and watch that 1937 film and the first song is that, I'm wishing.

for the one I love. I know. Classic. Classic. It's so quaint and twee and slow. I don't necessarily feel like a deep connection to it. It is also part of Disney's bizarre campaign against step-parents. Yes. Yes. Which I have never been down with even before I came to rely on one. But

But I felt like Pasek and Paul, I mean, they're definitely bringing musical theater vibes. If you want somebody who's going to be able to emulate kind of that classic Disney vibe, I think they do it well. And what I like about their songs, honestly, is that most of them do not involve the seven dwarfs. Before the film came out, actor Peter Dinklage criticized Disney for revisiting this story because of the background.

backwards portrayal of dwarfs in the original source material. And Disney said that they consulted with members of the dwarfism community as part of its production process. And the dwarfs here are CGI. And I found this presentation in this film to just be so off-putting that crazy

uncanny valley Polar Express CGI slop animation. Polar Express! Yes! It is so distracting. Even Dopey, as Char said, like, Dopey is giving you so much emotion. There's so much in the eyes and that character is just like a precious moments figurine come to life. I was thinking more of the Mad Magazine kid. That's what he kind of looked like to me.

Well, definitely some Alfred E. Newman. Yes, yes, yes, yes. If Alfred E. Newman was trying to make you cry, that's dopey. But I found that animation and the weird kind of uncanny valley whenever they are appearing on the same screen as like Rachel Zegler, it all just clanks. It didn't work for me at all. And I think in general...

These Disney reimaginings always feel like they are cover versions that are made with great technical skill and no heart. They're never horrible, but they're never elevated. They never do more than just kind of...

existing properties. And so, for me, this film falls right in the middle on that. I think Rachel Zegler is fine in it. I think Gal Gadot kind of works within her limitations a little bit. The Evil Queen is such a one-dimensional character. Like, the Evil Queen comes in as, like, too evil. But she has to be believable. Yeah. Right. I walked away from it saying, like, Gaga would have killed this. Like...

Gaga. With the song. Yes, Gaga would have made that song like an actually memorable song. She would have brought the menace, the flair, the dramatique. Gal Gadot does not bring any of that. And frankly, she's never brought any of that to any...

So I was kind of shocked that she was even cast in this. You know, her performance was my least favorite. And I should also mention now embracing that this is a reimagining. I felt like Disney missed an opportunity to really lean into Snow White's mom and get away from the trope. You know how everyone is just all about dad. And because we saw her backstory and mom was so heavily involved within the first part of the movie, I thought it was interesting that the new songs focused so much on

And I get that the evil queen comes in and sends the father off and he never comes back home. And, you know, the emphasis on the necklace and et cetera, et cetera. But that was a missed opportunity to kind of reimagine and really lean into the strengths and the example that the mother set. Yeah. But that wouldn't be Disney if they did, right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I...

I'm kind of in the same page with you guys of like, I did find things I wish they had updated. The first one being the Ferris of them all. Okay. As a concept, we are almost 90 years old.

after the 1937 film. I still do not know what they mean by that. Well, I thought they meant complexion. It used to mean complexion, but now, as we know, they've changed the origin of Snow White here. Yes, exactly. And so for Rachel Zegler to not only get so much criticism for the fact that she identifies as Colombian and the fact that she's cast in this, I was like, okay, what do we really mean by Fairest of Them All? Let's get into it. But the second thing is that I'm

a little surprised that they kind of kept this idea that the evil queen is weaponizing beauty as a symbol of evil. I feel like if I was a child watching this, I would just kind of immediately go like, okay, so beauty is equal to fairness, which is equal to maliciousness, and I just don't know if that's really the message that we needed to see in this film. In terms of things that I remember from this film, if we're talking about music, the one song I did like was Princess Problems, which I thought was kind of cute and fun. That one was cute. Yeah.

That was harsh. I mean, also, like, we haven't even talked about the fact that in the original film, it is the prince who's her love interest. And this guy, not a nepo baby, he is indeed a bandit.

bandit and he just kind of like... A scrub. Yeah, yeah. And he just like comes out of nowhere and he's like, hey, I have nothing to offer but like hair and I'm discount KJ Apa and I'm like, okay, sure, yeah, woo. Yeah, well, I mean, he's more Aladdin coded. He's a little more like the lovable rogue. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess like where I bump up against with the idea of like updating the story, and this is a problem I've seen with a lot of the live action remakes, is that each one is trying to sort of like...

correct for mistakes that the past movies made that they are being remade for. So with the Aladdin remake,

Oof, that awful reaction. No, that was terrible. Unforgivable. I was looking forward to seeing Will as the genie. And it was just terrible. It was terrible. It was terrible. It was worse than this. And in that movie, they tried to give Jasmine like a song called Speechless, which is basically the I Want song in this movie. Just like very generic, like I'm going to build to this crescendo. I'm the princess, blah, blah, blah, blah.

But they're trying to make it so that Jasmine has more beyond. It's like a female empowerment song, it's supposed to be. And my problem with all of these reimaginings is that they put on the most bland, generic version of this. We're going to make sure the audience knows and we signal that this is a girl who has power. She's fierce. She does all these things. But then there's nothing interesting about the character beyond the fact that she's supposed to be strong and kind and courageous. Yeah.

And I want her to have like a weird quirk or something like something more. And this Snow White, just like the Jasmine, like even Belle at least was like into books. Like she had hobbies. And Ariel had more dimension to her as well. A little bit like there was more going on. But like if you're going to give me a less, quote unquote, problematic version of this character than what we grew up seeing.

give her a little bit more personality, give her a little bit more sass. And I'd also say really quickly to Candace's earlier point around the politics of beauty. It's so subjective because Gal's a very beautiful woman. Rachel is as well, but to have Gal positioned in a way who's a very beautiful woman to be envious of Snow White optically, it's not going to make sense to some people because she's a very stunning woman. It would have been really interesting to see them really lean into that and do something different

I

a little bit more observational, a mean girls type of thing where it's like, this is a real thing. Like, we can't pretend that there isn't, like, the patriarchy hasn't set us up for women hating each other just because of what they look like even though they themselves... Like, so that's an interesting concept. Is it a dated concept? Maybe, but there's a way to update it that this movie, like, just doesn't want to touch. There is a way to update it, absolutely. There would have been a clever way because I also should clarify that beautiful women can be haters as well. Exactly. Like,

You know, I'm not saying that just because you're beautiful that you're just above it all. No, beautiful women can absolutely be haters out to get you as well. And there is a way that that could have been written and translated for the babies watching the film that wouldn't have been so obtuse as we saw unfold on screen. Yeah, I mean, I think one thing we're kind of ultimately talking about here is that they're trying to build out this movie on top of a pretty rickety frame. I'm not like here to say like Snow White sucks, but...

But like the 1937 film is a pretty slight plot. It's very short. It's a very short film. There's no meat on the bones of the romance involved. The I Want song in the original Snow White is, I'm wishing for the one I love. And then it's like a man shows up and I'm like, it's him. If only it were that easy. Exactly. And the Evil Queen has no particular arc or backstory. And in this film as well, like we are just told like,

She is motivated by the fact that she is evil. So the film doesn't really get any more complex than the original. It adds quite a bit to the runtime, but it's adding that in the form of songs and not necessarily in terms of character development. I wish that we would have gotten just a little bit more backstory to the evil queen. Why is she the only one in the land with magic powers?

If that exists in this realm, why is she the only one? And then on top of that, why is she sending someone to kill Snow White when she could snap her fingers and do it herself? I have to say, guys, I really feel like this film, you kind of have to walk into it expecting nothing and maybe you'll get something out of it. But I will say, I personally walked out thinking about how this film I felt was anti-PTO because it was about what happens when you, a king, leave your job for a day. Not good. And then I also found out

I also felt like it was very pro-Airbnb because there's a part where, like, I think it's grumpy. He's kind of like, I can't believe Snow White is staying here longer than her checkout date or whatever. And she's like, oh, it's fine. I'll clean. And I was like, ah, no, we're not. This whole, like, idea of, like, cleaning will fix my problems with housing. No, that's what I've been thinking about since. Okay. To be fair, she does enlist the help of the rest of the dwarves. It's not like she's doing it all by herself. She's teaching them. And they go.

created the mess and we haven't even talked about Dopey what his real asset is pretty privilege uh oh we're not having that conversation the rest of them are all like they look they're 200 and however old they're supposed to be they are like 200 plus years old yeah yeah but then he's like he's looking like he's the mad magazine kid and they don't get PTO because they were high hoeing to work every day I mean we didn't even talk about the fact that

fact that their alleged job is that they what mine jewels in the mine why who is their boss the queen obviously you saw how she was decked out in all her regalia and her jewelry yeah they're they're gathering jewels for the queen which by the way char when you mentioned cheap the first thing i thought about is i did think the evil queen's outfits were very claire's coded to me i've heard every plastic jewel hit against claire's hot topic we're hitting all the mall stores in this uh right right

All right. Well, we want to know what you think about Snow White. Find us on Facebook at facebook.com slash pchh and on Letterboxd at letterboxd.com slash nprpopculture. We'll have a link in our episode description. Up next, what is making us happy this week?

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This message comes from NPR sponsor Shopify. Start selling with Shopify today. Whether you're a garage entrepreneur or IPO ready, Shopify is the only tool you need to start, run, and grow your business without the struggle. Go to Shopify.com slash NPR. Now it's time for our favorite segment of this week and every week. What's making us happy this week? Candice Lim, I'm going to start with you, buddy. Yeah, so what's making me happy is the new song from Haim. It's called Relationships.

This song is so driving down the PCH windows down ice latte in one hand coded. And I feel like a lot of the pop culture I'm very attracted to right now is like summer coded. I'm watching summer house. I'm binging the summer. I turn pretty. It's really obvious I'm yearning for the sun. And this kind of completes the trifecta. And I think like if there are recession indicators, okay, I think time coming out with new music is a vibe decatur because we're so back.

You know, apparently they've been working on this song for like seven years. And I think every time I listen to this song, it takes me back to the last time I listened to Summer Girl, one of my favorite songs from them. And this song is kind of like letting you know of like, this is an indicator of what's to come on their next album. Therefore, I am now motivated to get through this year. And so what's making me happy is Relationships by Haim. Let's hear a little bit of it. ♪ Why in this relationship ♪

Love it. Nice. Great pick. Thank you so much, Candice Lim. Char Jassel, what's making you happy this week? So I'm going to be really, really quick because I do have two that I struggled wrestling with. The first of which is Beyond the Gates on CBS. I have never been a soap opera girl. That's just not been my steez. But I started watching this one, I guess because...

When I was little and watching soap operas, you know, at the babysitter's house, I never saw it from its inception. It didn't relate to me. But this is so camp. It is so ridiculous that I'm like, I can't look away. It's so good. So Beyond the Gates. And I'll also say The Weekend View, which is a Saturday installation of The View on ABC. And they're talking all pop culture. And I kind of miss that. Yeah.

And so it's this panel of women, as we know, you know, Joy, Sarah, Sunny, et cetera, et cetera, Alyssa. They're talking pop culture. They're talking sex. They're talking. And I'm like, I'm enjoying this on Saturday morning. So The Weekend View and Beyond the Gates. Nice. Yes. I love it. Thank you, Char. Aisha Harris, what's making you happy this week?

a film that is quite the opposite of the movie we were just talking about. Naked Acts, which was written and directed by Bridget M. Davis. This is a 1998 film, and it stars Jake Ann Jones as a Black aspiring actress who's cast in this indie art film, but she's upset when she learns that it requires a nude scene. And this is a movie that explores Black female sexuality, artistic integrity, friendship, mother-daughter relationships.

It had a very limited and short release in 1998. It was still critically acclaimed, but it kind of just like fell off. And it's recently had a resurgence in the last year, thanks to Maya S. Cade, who is the creator and curator of the Black Film Archive and is also currently a scholar in residence at the Library of Congress. She's been a champion of this film and it got a release in like limited art theaters. And it also got a release on Kino Lorber as a DVD. And you can now rent it

wherever you can rent your stuff. So I highly recommend checking it out. Also features a great performance by the late Ron Cephas Jones. It's just very special and different and unlike...

Any movie I've ever seen before. And that is Naked Axe, directed and written by Bridget M. Davis. Nice. Thank you, Aisha Harris. Well, I'm going to take us back to what Candice was talking about. I'm talking about Spring and Summer Jams. And I have 2025's first album of perfect spring and summer jams. It is called Super Pedestrian, and it's by a wonderful Nashville singer-songwriter named Annie DeRusso. This album has everything.

I love big guitars, catchy choruses, songs about boredom and terrible love, hooks piled on top of hooks. Aisha Harris, I think you're going to like this record. It's joyous. It's funny. It's catchy. It's strange. If you are in a position to throw open a window and just crank something, I highly encourage you to make it super pedestrian, perhaps beginning with this perfect anthem called Back in Town. When you're back, you're back.

Is it 1995? Is it? I love it. I love it. I love it. It is an amalgamation of so many things that I think you, Aisha, particularly love. Yes! That sounds right up my alley.

The whole record is fantastic. That's Annie DeRusso and her new album, Super Pedestrian. That is what is making me happy this week. If you want links for what we recommended, plus some more recommendations, sign up for our newsletter at npr.org slash pop culture newsletter. That brings us to the end of our show. Candice Lim, Char Jassel, Aisha Harris, thanks so much for being here.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. This episode was produced by Mike Katziff and Lennon Sherburn and edited by Jessica Reedy. Hello, Come In provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. I'm Stephen Thompson, and we will see you all next week.

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