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Well, what is billed as music's biggest night was last night, the Grammys, the 67th annual Grammy Awards were last night. And it was a pretty big night of surprises. There were some complete shutouts and some really big wins, including the first ever album of the year for Beyonce, a long overdue award for her. And it wasn't the only Grammy that she took home last night. She also won Best Country Album for Cowboy Carter and Best Country Duo Performance.
It was also a big night for Kendrick Lamar and so many more. Our friends at NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour podcast stayed up until the wee hours of the morning trying to make sense of it all. And on this special episode from them, we break down the winners, the surprise shutouts, and much more. Enjoy the show. ♪
Our long national nightmare is finally over. Beyonce has won the Grammy for Album of the Year. It was a huge night for her and for Kendrick Lamar, who won Record and Song of the Year for Not Like Us, and Chapel Roan edged out a crowded field to win Best New Artist. I'm Stephen Thompson. It is 1247 a.m., and we are recapping this year's Grammys on Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. ♪
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Joining me today is freelance music and culture journalist Rihanna Cruz. Hey, Rihanna. Howdy. Also with us, culture writer and critic Shamira Ibrahim. Hey, Shamira. Hey, Stephen. Happy to be here. It is a pleasure to have you both. I think we got to start with the biggest award of all, one we have been waiting for for
For many years now, finally, at long last, the biggest Grammy winner of all time, a woman who has now won 35 Grammys in 99 nominations, Beyonce has won Album of the Year for Cowboy Carter. I think we can all heave a tremendous sigh of relief that this has happened. Completely overdue. I think it came as a shock for many of us. It's such a crowded field this year for Album of the Year. But I...
You could even see by the reaction in the audience that almost all of her colleagues were elated for her to finally get like the one trophy that had long evaded her. I feel like album of the year was the field this year that I really, I had no idea. Where like, even today I was waffling about where I was like, well, Sabrina Carpenter won best pop vocal album earlier in the telecast. I thought that she kind of could have taken it.
And when they have announced Cowboy Carter, actually, I did heave that sigh of relief. I had a very similar reaction, including...
feeling that this was very unpredictable. She had won Best Country Album earlier in the evening, which was a big and I think somewhat surprising win for her, given how slow the country music community has been to embrace this record. Her winning there was definitely, definitely felt like a milestone. I think sometimes genre is a cold word to keep us in our place as artists, but
And I just want to encourage people to do what they're passionate about and to stay persistent. Wow.
You know, because Kendrick Lamar won record and song of the year, which we'll talk about more in a second, there wasn't a sense that anybody was sweeping. So I didn't have a really good sense that like any artist was coming into that category with momentum. Honestly, you know, I wrote a Grammy preview piece for the NPR website in which I laid out a case in which Jacob Collier was
could win Album of the Year for Jesse Volume 4. He could have. And I really thought that could happen because you had six giant pop stars all sharing a crowded lane. And then you had Andre 3000 with his flute odyssey. Totally.
And you had Jacob Collier, who is a very Grammy-friendly artist. So the heaving sigh of relief when Beyonce won was in part like, oh my God, I don't have to talk about Jacob Collier winning album of the year. I felt good about that because I didn't listen to the record. So I'm like, that's the one record that I did not peep this entire year. So I hope I didn't have to talk about it. Rihanna, I started listening to it.
We'll leave it at that. I think to your point, Stephen, you know, it was a shock that, you know, the country album win even happened. Beyonce was clearly shocked, as we saw by her reaction in real time. And I think for the Grammys, I do think there's something to be said about the work they've done to increase access for voting, right? As they made pains to tell us multiple times throughout the program, there are now 13,000 members in the Grammy voting body, in case you did not know. Oh my gosh. They just...
kept repeating that stat. But I do think that the increase in access and diversity and just genre of people involved in these voting conversations also helped Beyonce in the sense that yes, of course, the people who are voting for country already clearly were already behind her, which is a diversion from the other two award ceremonies. But in addition, also people who are long ready for her to get this were also likely involved in the conversation as well. And I think Harvey Mason Jr. tried to
prove that over the course of the program. The head of the Grammys, yeah. I mean, you alluded to other awards that did not embrace Beyonce's record. I mean, the Country Music Association Awards did not give her any nominations. And you really got a sense, watching the way these Grammys unfolded, of like a growing chasm. And this chasm has been there for a while, but a growing chasm between
I think that's also a testament to Cowboy Carter, though, how it's able to be received by so many different audiences, where songs on the record were nominated for Best Pop Performance, Americana, Country. It was all across the board, and I think that really aligns
alluded to it winning album of the year because so many people in so many different genres saw the potential in the record. Big night for her. Also a big night for Kendrick Lamar. Kendrick Lamar's Not Like Us was nominated for five Grammys. It was nominated for Record of the Year, Song of the Year, Best Rap Performance, Best Rap Song, and Best Music Video. It won...
All five. Get the broom out. It's a sweet. Get the broom out. They literally said, get the broom out. It was a huge night for this song, which, you know, kind of began as a diss track and ended up becoming somewhat of an anthem for Los Angeles. And, um,
In a night that was very much about, among other things, raising money for wildfire victims in Los Angeles, it felt like it was kind of bound to be a big night for this song, but it was an even bigger night, I think, than people expected.
I was watching it, you know, in a room full of all my friends, right? We were bumping Not Like Us the whole summer, you know what I mean? Like, I live in Los Angeles. Every time that song won an award, the whole room erupted. Like, we were screaming, we were punching the floor. It was crazy. Because I feel like, you know, if I look back on my year, what song dominated my year? It was Not Like Us, you know?
being in LA and then having the general vibe around the city right now, be one of coming together, music being a point of, I don't know, building bridges. You know, we just had the giant fire aid relief concert. Like it was, it was a good moment. Yeah. I think that it was a great moment for Kendrick. I think it speaks to the, to the fact that it is such so connected to LA culture that when Kendrick did accept his award, like,
a person of very few words, he generally went to look towards celebrating Los Angeles in his actual speech, right? One of the few things he's actually said on record connected to any of his astronomical last eight months, right? And so I think it really speaks to what it reflects for the city, what it reflects for this moment, and also just, you know, a great tee-up for the tour to come, obviously. We're going to dedicate this one to the city. Compton, Watts. Yeah, yeah.
Long Beach, Inglewood, Hollywood, Out to the Valley, Pacuema, IE. This song swept and it's not even at the finish line. You know what I mean? Like the Super Bowl next week, I would say is probably the finish line for Not Like Us. That's not even happened yet. You know, this is just a tee up for that. It's a testament to his impact, how good the song is. First of all, you know, I think it's,
kind of wild for a rap song, albeit a diss track, to win this many awards with such vocal support from the Academy. It's pretty sick. And also the upcoming tour is a stadium tour for Kendrick, which is pretty unprecedented, not just for Kendrick, but also for a rap act in general. It is very rare that rap acts get to do stadium tours, even joint performances. Very bold choice, but a testament to what a phenomenal year he's had.
I mean, think about it. Who's bigger right now than Kendrick Lamar and SZA? That tour is going to be wild. But while we're talking about artists who can fill stadiums, let's talk best new artist, won by Chapel Roan, who also performed Pink Pony Club in what I think, I suspect we'll agree that was one of the best performances of the night. Oh, agreed. Yeah. Dance it at Smiley.
She was nominated for six Grammys and only won one. But if you were going to pick one, I mean, look, maybe you pick album of the year. Maybe you pick record of the year. But I think Best New Artist felt like the right capstone for the year that Chapel Roan sat. Totally. I mean, her microphone was on in that performance. The absolute...
courage to stand up on that stage while you're nominated for best new artist and say sing it and give the mic to the audience and they're all singing your song like that's pretty crazy I don't really like Chapel Roan like that and I was watching that performance and I was like damn that's good look I do like Chapel Roan like that I think Chapel Roan is freaking amazing she was probably my biggest rooting interest coming into this night so I'm so glad
She won particularly Best New Artist, but like, God, she is just made to crush these big awards show performances. Totally. I think it's a big testament to her work ethic, to just the grind she's put in for her to have this coming out moment. I think Best New Artist was the best category for her to win in. Yeah.
largely because I think she represents a new generation of artists, one that is willing to share openly with their fans, one that is willing to be a little bit more forthcoming about the struggles and trials and tribulations of what it takes to make it in this industry. We saw it in her speech, of course, right? Where she openly...
for, you know, assistance for emerging artists to make sure that artists are not struggling without health insurance, to make sure that artists are able to live full lives while they're creating their best work and how she had to sacrifice so much to actually win. I saw somebody joke that Benson Boone was like the first person to start clapping when she mentioned the health insurance, which had me deeply concerned. Is he doing all these backflips without insurance? Like, I'm just...
Me and my friends were like, that one song is clearly not paying his bills. I definitely, I have felt concern having seen Benson Boone live and seen him perform on several awards shows. I am worried about the long-term health of his knees. I also noticed that when Chapel Roan gave that speech in which, as you said, she called for Ben,
Better infrastructure and better support for emerging artists talked about how when she was dropped from her label, she suddenly found herself basically with no job prospects, let alone health insurance. And I noticed how much that seemed to resonate, particularly with the newer artists in the audience. I told myself if I ever won a Grammy and I got to stand up here in front of the most powerful people in music, I
I would demand that labels and the industry profiting millions of dollars off of artists would offer a livable wage and healthcare especially to developing artists.
And I thought it was like a little charming how she seemed nervous, you know, when she started her speech. But at the end, I think she fully came into herself where she was like, labels, we got you, but do you got us? I was like, oh, that's a perfect mic drop moment. Absolutely. Labels, we got you, but do you got us?
So while we're talking about speeches that actually had something to say, Rihanna, I know you to be a little monster. Why, yes. You must have appreciated what I certainly thought was a wonderful speech by Lady Gaga. Lady Gaga and Bruno Mars won Best Pop Doer Group Performance for Die With a Smile, and Lady Gaga said this in her speech. And I just want to say tonight that trans people are not invisible.
Trans people deserve love. The queer community deserves to be lifted up. - All in all, I mean, kind of an incredible night for Gaga. You know, her album press was named several times, her new album Mayhem coming up. She debuted a new song during the commercials. But I think this moment during her speech
really was the most impactful I think to me you know as somebody belonging to these communities I was kind of sitting around all night and I was like all right when are we gonna get to the the politics of it all right you know I think there's a couple artists like Chapel like Gaga where I was like if they'll win I do wonder if they'll speak on you know this is me gesturing at
like everything politically happening right now. Hashtag in these times. Yeah, exactly. And Gaga saying that in her speech, it brought a tear to my eye, you know, because she's always really spoken up for people and to her directly be like trans people, you are not invisible. Yeah.
That was a really, really great moment. And yeah, I don't know. I felt like that was one of the most impactful speeches of the night. I think like Chapel, Gaga, and Dochi really resonated with me. Yeah, there were several really great potent speeches that seemed to either directly state in some cases, like speeches mentioning DEI or allude to our current political situation.
I think that's fair to say. And while no one was outright naming our current president, there definitely seemed to be an intent to actively and vocally rebuke recent actions by speaking in allyship to either groups that people felt represented by, groups that helped them, industries that really protected their rights. And you see that across the board. You see with Dochi openly saying, you are enough as a black woman.
Don't allow anybody to project any stereotypes on you that tell you that you can't be here, that you're too dark or that you're not smart enough or that you're too dramatic or you're too loud. You are exactly who you need to be to be right where you are.
Chapel also speaking about trans rights on the red carpet. There seemed to be a very focused interest by specific artists to really amplify that note with regards to music being a safe community for queer people, people of color, and anybody, immigrants who are struggling in these times.
So Shamira, you mentioned Dochi and I'm glad you did. My performance of the night, bar none. True. Dochi won best rap album and certainly like had a big night from a standpoint of accepting an award. But in terms of like a victory lap ascension to mega stardom,
the artist I feel like people are going to be talking about the most. I suspect the artist who will enjoy the largest boost in things like streaming from this night is Doji because I feel like Doji just had a massive coming out party tonight. This category was introduced in 1989 and two women have won Lauren Hill. Three women have won.
Lauren Hill, Cardi B, and Dochi. She even is leaning into it too. She just released a new song, you know, and the cover for the song is a Grammy and alligator skin. You've got to love it. It's really, really sick. I love Dochi, man. I've been a big fan of Dochi since about 2019 when I first heard Spooky Coochie for the first time, right? You know? Oh my God.
And I remember watching her, I believe it was 2021 at the BET Hip Hop Awards where she performed with Isaiah Rashad on What You Said. And I said, this is a star. This is someone who knows their angles, knows how to speak to the camera, knows how to really bring that energy out on stage in a way that sometimes you just have it or you don't when it comes to that X factor. And watching it all come together for her in the last year, and I'm happy that she got to showcase her performance skill
and her commitment to her craft on the largest stage. I think everyone walked away obsessed with how she conceptualizes performances, but taking that Tom Brown execution to the next level, giving the really great geometric moments with the choreography that were delivered really well, playing into a little bit of playfulness with kind of the jazz interludes to transition to her next single. It was giving Chicago. Tense across the board. Absolutely, yes. ♪
And they do.
And at the risk of sounding self-promotional, if you have not watched Dochi's Tiny Desk Concert, that is your next step. If you were discovering Dochi watching these Grammy Awards, your next step is to watch her Tiny Desk Concert. Because my God, megastar. Speaking of megastars, best pop vocal album, short and sweet, Sabrina Carpenter.
Glad to see that, you know, even though she was shut out in the major awards and she didn't win best new artist, even after the like huge star turn year she had, she did get a moment to do like a giant, very fun and theatrical performance of espresso and please, please, please. Um,
And she did get to win a trophy during the telecast. It was giving physical comedy. It was giving vaudeville. I think it really showcased her stardom. She's been doing this on her tour, you know, these like physical comedy bits and kind of playing around with the stage is like,
a theatrical medium, but I think this performance really showcased what makes Sabrina Carpenter special and that she's funny. She has personality and the performance also was extremely tight and really well put together. Now you're thinking about me. You say that's sweet. Say you can't sleep.
And I enjoyed her winning Best Pop Vocal Album because it kind of reflected something that I largely enjoyed about this Grammys was that
A lot of artists felt like they got their due. I feel like Sabrina Carpenter was celebrated. I felt like Chapel Roan was celebrated. I felt like Beyonce was celebrated. All equally, and I think that's really hard for the Grammys to get right because they haven't. People are going to get shut out. And it's worth noting here, Taylor Swift and Billie Eilish were both shut out.
they were the only people who were nominated for like a whole bunch of awards and didn't take home something. And if you're going to, it's not to criticize either of those artists or either of the records that they were nominated for, but if you're going to pick somebody who gets left out, it might as well people who have won boatloads of Grammys before. I also just think it's a testament to it just being a great year in popular music, right? I think sometimes it's very easy to get
defeatist. Music discovery is harder to do. The music apparatus is so crowded now. How can you keep track of 10,000 new songs a day? And I think it's very easy to get caught up in the muck and feel like, oh my God, there's just nothing newer compelling. But I think this year, the Grammys did a good job of just reminding us there's actually a lot of great music out there, both from our bigger artists and our legacy artists and our emerging artists. And it really did a good job of highlighting that.
both from the Best New Artist Showcase to just finally crowning some of our longstanding legends. I think it really painted a good picture to not feel so defeated by the future of the music industry and that good creations are still coming every single day. And that's part of what I really loved about the Grammys this year. I'm going to go on record and say I enjoyed watching the Grammys this year. It's not always the case. This year, I enjoyed it. And I think the Grammys...
really put a concentrated effort into making this telecast felt like it mattered. I fully agree, Rihanna. I think not only will I say that I enjoyed it, I will even go so far as to say something that I rarely say, which is that I was wrong. I was in the camp that really believed that the Grammys probably should not have happened or should have been really re-strategized in the wake of everything happening in Los Angeles. It was hard for me to conceptualize
what a version of a Grammys could look like where they de-emphasize the awards and focus on the community in a way that felt sensible or organic. I did feel like there were at times where it did lean a little bit on the telethon side. However, I did think
that overall really well done, a really strong balance of the artists and celebrating and honoring Los Angeles as a community. I think everyone felt that despite some blips here and there. Yeah, Shamira, I'm glad you mentioned the telethon angle of this because that's kind of the last thing I wanted to talk about, which was the overall tone of these awards.
Yeah, Harvey Mason Jr., you know, the head of the Recording Academy in the run-up to these awards said, like, this is not going to be a telethon. We're going to do something that's appropriate to the moment, but it's not going to become a telethon. And then they went and basically put on a telethon. And, you know, Trevor Noah, who was the host of the Grammys, he's hosted the Grammys before, seemed to largely bypass skits and bits altogether.
in favor of taking opportunities to highlight local businesses that needed help or just really to just solicit funds and said at one point that just from viewers at home, they raised $7 million, not even counting the big corporate donors or the artists in the room and what they gave. What did you guys think about kind of the overall...
The overall telethoniness of the night. So I say this as somebody who lives in Los Angeles, has been volunteering for pretty much the past month. I know people that have lost their homes, you know, seen all of this firsthand. I was watching and I was like, okay, this is a little much, but
And I appreciate them putting all of this effort into soliciting donations and then kind of creating this environment. I personally really loved the clips where they paired
with local businesses that were lost in the fires. On the other hand, we just had the Fire Aid concerts a few days ago, you know, and that put all of, I think, the wreckage in front of our faces over and over and over again. And while I was watching the Grammys, I was like, man, like, we're gonna take these vibes that we set with, like, Chapel Roan or Sabrina Carpenter and then tonally...
flip it on a 180 and then put, you know, fire carnage in front of our faces. It felt a little tone deaf at times, but perhaps that was just me, you know, being here and seeing it all. I didn't think that they needed to announce anybody, everybody who donated, we would be here forever. And it's already like a four hour long telecast. Um,
But I mean, maybe they should have just actually gone the telethon route and just kept a big poster board or like a live smart board on the stage and just shown the actual amounts filling. I think that might have solved that problem. I'm not really sure, but I'd rather us focus on like the tangible things that can integrate well, which I think like you mentioned, Rihanna, were the commercials, like commercials.
Like I thought, you know, Doja also being from the Southern California area, it also worked really well. Like I think a lot of those collaborations were really well executed. I definitely think some parts could have been tweaked, but I think given the short turnaround for that writing team, they did a lot well in the circumstances. True.
So yeah, all in all, a complicated night. They managed to address the wildfires. They gave awards to Kendrick Lamar and Beyonce finally won album of the year. Feels like a complete night of Grammys. We want to know what you think about this year's Grammy ceremony and winners. Find us at facebook.com slash PCHH. That brings us to the end of our show. Rihanna Cruz, Shamira Ibrahim, thanks so much for being here. Thanks as always. Thanks for having us.
And just a reminder that signing up for Pop Culture Happy Hour Plus is a great way to support our show and public radio, and you get to listen to all our episodes sponsor-free. So please go find out more at plus.npr.org slash happy hour or visit the link in our show notes. This episode was produced by Liz Metzger and edited by Jessica Reedy. Audio engineering was performed by David Greenberg, and Hello Come In provides our theme music.
Thanks for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. I'm Stephen Thompson, and we will see you all tomorrow.
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