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cover of episode Natasha Joukovsky — On Recursion, Status Games & Manufactured Nonchalance (EP.268)

Natasha Joukovsky — On Recursion, Status Games & Manufactured Nonchalance (EP.268)

2025/5/15
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Natasha Joukovsky: 我之所以能够在艺术、咨询和写作等不同领域工作，是因为我充分利用了公司的休假政策。我从未同时在艺术界和咨询界工作，而是在完成商学院后完全转换了职业。为了写作，我利用了公司提供的各种休假机会，包括无保护期休假、产假和有保护期的学术休假。这些休假让我有足够的时间和精力专注于写作，完成了我的小说作品。我认为这种平衡不同职业和兴趣的方式，得益于公司提供的灵活政策和个人对时间的有效管理。

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Natasha Joukovsky's unique career path includes roles in the art world, strategy consulting, and writing. She successfully manages her time by taking leaves of absence for writing projects, leveraging her employer's supportive policies.
  • Juggling multiple careers
  • Leaves of absence for writing
  • Balancing art, consulting, and writing

Shownotes Transcript

Strategy consultant turned writer Natasha Joukovsky joins me to discuss why bourgeois comfort is more conducive to writing than you think, why choice-plots make for better fiction, the eyerolling prevalence of manufactured nonchalance, our shared distaste for Atlantis Bahamas, and MUCH more!

I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. For the full transcript, episode takeaways, and bucketloads of other goodies designed to make you go, “Hmm, that’s interesting!”, check out our Substack).

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Show Notes:

  • “You can do everything, just not at the same time”
  • It’s Recursion All the Way Down
  • Pretending to Read vs Actually Reading
  • Manufactured Nonchalance as a Status Signal
  • Counter-Signalling, Fake-Famous & Jim’s Cursed Trip to Atlantis Bahamas
  • On No-Choice Plots & Writing in Service of Beauty
  • The Self-Deception of Status Hunting
  • Why Bourgeois Comfort is More Conducive to Art Than You Think
  • Natasha’s Next Book
  • “We don’t do auctions”
  • Natasha as World Empress

Books Mentioned:

  • The Portrait of a Mirror; by Natasha Joukovsky
  • The novels of Jane Austen
  • Status Anxiety; by Alain de Botton
  • The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock (poem); by T.S. Eliot
  • Class: A Guide Through the American Status System; by Paul Fussell
  • Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid; by Douglas R. Hofstadter
  • Ulysses; by James Joyce
  • Metamorphosis; by Franz Kafka
  • Beloved; by Toni Morrison
  • In Search of Lost Time (Remembrance of Things Past); by Marcel Proust
  • Collective Illusions; by Todd Rose
  • The Status Game; by Will Storr
  • Anna Karenina; by Leo Tolstoy
  • The Theory of the Leisure Class; by Thorstein Veblen
  • A Little Life; by Hanya Yanagihara