Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
Guess who's back? Heading to school. Retirees aged 55 and above with time and curiosity on their side. From China to the U.S., seniors are stepping back into the classroom. But what are they really looking for in this second round of education?
And what does that say about how we're all reimagining the golden years? Coming to you live from Beijing, this is Roundtable. I'm He Yang. For today's program, I'm joined by our very own Yu Shun in the studio. Hello. Hi, everyone.
Hey, and look who's back and glowing. Steve returns from vacation with stories to tell and a tan to prove it. Excited to be back and excited for today's show. Awesome. And I've seen some comments saying, where's Steve? I'm here now. Don't worry about it. Wonderful to have you both in the studio and for this discussion. First on a nice show.
Gen Z, don't look now, grandma's back in school and she might be better at Photoshop than you. From spending big on college classes in the US to taking Tai Chi and photo editing lessons in a different type of elderly college in China, seniors are redefining retirement and lifelong learning. So what's behind this silver haired student trend? And what does it say about how people want to spend their retirement years today?
On some campuses in the U.S., the term college senior is taking on a whole new meaning. So Steve, tell us about these new options of
Yeah, this is kind of a hybrid model, isn't it? And I think it's really cool. We'll get into the details, but I'll start with one specific example. There is an institution called Goucher College, and that's a private liberal arts institution. And it's just outside of Baltimore, which is a city in the state of Maryland in the United States. And it's a private liberal arts institution.
And what they did was they partnered together with Edenwald. Edenwald is a nearby senior living community. And together they piloted what they call a university retirement community. And the program invites residents aged 55 and older. So there is an age restriction there.
to fully engage in campus life by auditing courses. That means that they can attend university courses. They don't take part like the students do in the sense that they're taking the tests and they're gaining credit for the classes, but they're available for them to go and see. They can also use the campus facilities. They can attend events alongside the traditional undergraduates. So they really do coexist online.
all on the same campus there. It's kind of a cool idea. Oh yeah, they don't get all of that exams as you said, but they do share the classroom with
all of the traditional students out there ranging in age from 18 onward. And it is trying to, the program is trying to foster a kind of cross-generational dialogue and collaboration, of course. And also participants receive official student card. It's called Goucher Student ID, which means it is granting them library privileges,
dining hall accesses and entry to concerts and also attendance at athletic events such as lacrosse games. Yeah, which is a big deal, right, in the United States. And in Canada, too, students from the university and often alumni, they'll go back and support the school sports teams, basketball, volleyball, football, whatever the sport happens to be. Yeah, so the seniors here, they get the student card, basically, where everybody
It allows them to do all of those things. In terms of the housing itself, the school leases three acres of land to Edenwald for senior housing. And then in exchange for that, Goucher provides educational programming and then the access to the campus that Yushin just mentioned. What about the cost?
Well, I was going to get to that in a little while, but since you asked now, yeah, it's not cheap. It's expensive. So the residents there will pay various prices depending on the size of the apartment that they have, but it starts at $3,500 per month, and it can go up to about $11,000 a month for premium units.
And again, that's with all the campus amenities included. But still, that's not cheap at all. That like three thousand five hundred US dollars that that's basically twenty five thousand yuan per month of your housing. Right.
That immediately, I think, prices out most Chinese people. Well, I mean, and that's the starting price, right? It can go up as high as $11,000 a month. Which is $79,000. It's extremely expensive. So even for Americans, this would be pretty expensive? Oh, 100%. Yes. Okay. Yeah, very, very much expensive. I mean, I remember a friend of mine lived in Brooklyn in New York City, and the apartment, the...
One bedroom, two bedroom apartment was $3,600 a month. So it's basically like the equivalent of a Brooklyn apartment, what you're going to pay per month. Right. And that's retirement. Wow. How popular is this university retirement community arrangement in the U.S.? Well, there was a report from Marketplace. That's a media outlet out of the United States.
And they talked about this university retirement community. They call them URCs. And the fact that they've grown from just maybe having a handful in the 1980s to around 90 nationwide today, which isn't a mind-blowing number, right? It's still under 100. But if we compare it back to when it started in the 1980s, it is significant growth, but
But they are expecting it as well to double over the next decade or so. And in terms of the schools, they can range from small liberal arts colleges all the way up to famous schools. Here's a couple of more examples. It's called the Pines at Davidson College. That's in North Carolina. They welcome retirees into apartments and villas. They have a campus that's about 150 acres. Mm-hmm.
And there they have lectures and art studios and fitness centers and social events with students and faculty. And here's one more example for you. Mirabella at Arizona State University, they have on-site senior housing alongside full access to campus libraries and dining and athletic events, all the things that we mentioned before. What do you think is driving older Americans to go back to school and
Also, they're paying a hefty price for it. I was thinking for seniors, at least, they are having a chance to go back to university if they're not considering about the cost, you know, access to campus life, mental stimulation and broader social networks with not only people from the same age group, right, from also from different age groups, right?
who are younger maybe and also from different walks of life and have like different kinds of dialogue. It's another alternative. It's outside of the stereotypical senior lifestyle that we think about
when we think of the average retired person in the United States, right? So, you know, maybe wake up and play golf in the daytime. Oh, I would love that. Yeah, or, you know, meet your friends and go shopping. I mean, these are the stereotypes. These are stereotypes I love. And some of them are very, very true. Yeah, but it provides an alternative, right, where you can continue to take a class if you feel like it. You have like-minded individuals who are also living at the community as well.
which is, again, it's on a university campus. There's the interaction with the younger people too, taking classes when you want to take them. I think it's just a kind of, for many people, a more exciting opportunity. This isn't the norm. I want to point that out as well. It's not like when you retire from your job in the United States, you immediately move on to university campus. This is still quite niche.
But the fact that it exists is kind of testament to the fact that there is a demand for it. Right. And according to specialty investment banker Zegler, baby boomers hold significant wealth and high educational attainment, seeking intellectually stimulating, socially rich retirement lifestyles. Roughly, this figure kind of surprised me a little bit, 39 percent of adults 55 and
older, have a college degree. And I don't understand how necessarily that is connected to them wanting to go to school again. I don't know if it's wanting to go to school again. Yeah. What is it? Do they just want to be back in that ambience and that environment? I'll give you an example of when my father retired, right? So he was a high school vice principal for more than 30 years. And
And he took an early retirement package. They offered that in Nova Scotia because Nova Scotia had a lot at that time of teacher colleges. So there were a lot of students coming out with degrees that needed teaching jobs. So the government decided to offer an early retirement package to the teachers. Anyway, side story. So dad, when he retired, I mean, this is a man who never missed a day of work, right?
He loved his job so much. He was completely dedicated, completely loyal. And when he stopped working, he kind of...
Didn't really know what to do with himself for a period of time. And we were at the beach house one day and I came out and dad is putting wheels on the bottom of a plant holder. And I said, what are you doing? And he said, I'm putting wheels on the bottom of the plants. I said, why? He said, well, now I don't have to pick them up anymore. I can just kind of kick them with my foot and move on.
I said, oh, goodness me. Someone's retired and looking for something to do, I think. So my point here with that cute little story is that, yeah, if you want to draw a connection between people having university degrees and still wanting to have that atmosphere, having the opportunity or the option to attend a class, I think that's very...
attractive to them and it's not just the classes right it's the access to the library it's the athletic events it's all the things that the students get to do on campus too but what I was thinking was it is quite open to different age group of people to apply for colleges right no matter like there are limits but
For like 50 and above, you can still apply for like a regular college degree or something like that. But in the U.S., it's so expensive. Yeah. And do you want to do that, take up so much debt, or do you want to just throw that? We talked about this a couple of days ago. It's like $60,000 American dollars for one year education. Do you still want that? I mean, when I was in my university days, we had...
older students in the class. In Canada, many, I think it's 65 and older. Not every school, but I think many schools will allow people of that age group to attend classes for free. And it's often subject to availability, right? When I was taking my classes, maybe there were, I don't know, two or three or four students
students in there who were retired. And it was just kind of a cool thing for them to do. And we enjoyed having them in the class. Yeah. What I really like about these kind of programs, not thinking about the cost and all that stuff for a second, is that they force people to see each other as people, not headlines. Because, well, in a society increasingly it's
atomized. And even in China, we don't live in three generation households anymore. And when we talk about older folks and a lot of the social issues with an aging society that brings, we don't necessarily see this living being
in front of us, we think of, oh, older folks that have nothing to do with me. And when in fact, I think it's a really great way to, I don't know what this is called, embracing society or just to understand this country we live in in a better way if we get to work, live, or in this case, go to classes and interact with folks of a different generation and really get to know them to a certain extent. I agree. And I think this is just my personal opinion. I think we're going to be
be introduced to some new terms in the next few decades or perhaps see some terms disappear. And what I mean is seniors, pensioners, the elderly with aging societies becoming more pop, not popular, more common around the world.
then I think that you're going to see these types of stereotypes start to slowly disappear as well. And programs like this at various universities can help with that. And also one thing I see as, oh, this is possibly a lifesaver or it could be seen as a lifesaver for a lot of these universities or smaller universities in America is that they're experiencing significant hardship in even studying
Keeping the lights on. So having these older folks and apparently in the U.S., they're going through a similar process of fast aging society as baby boomers reach retirement age. And therefore, these colleges are seeing, oh, our new customers are not 18 anymore. They're 80. So I don't necessarily think it's going to completely flip the
switch for them for these colleges because I don't think you can just rely on this bunch of older folks that older demographic to pay to keep your university alive but they act they do act as an extra revenue stream and in I'll
On Friday, I believe, with Josh, we talked about how extremely expensive university tuition has become in the UK and the US. And with the younger generation over there, they were talking about, is this even worth it anymore to take up that much student loan even before starting your first job? So I think this is an interesting dynamic that's going on in the US. So now let's turn back here to China.
We're seeing that in recent years, elderly universities or 老年大学 has been in the news quite a bit, but it's a different type of university. It is not the regular university that undergraduates usually go to. And could you sort of paint the picture for us here in China of how retirees or older folks are enjoying these elderly universities?
educational institutions or just going to class again. Yes. And I think these are especially designed for these outerlies or especially retirees and
It is a kind of a public institution and they offer a wide range of curriculums designed to enrich seniors' lives through maybe cultural, physical, technological, and practical skills training. So that's why I was thinking of this kind of public institution when Steve was telling our audience
example of your dad of maybe people when they're retiring they will think of something to do aside from just having a maybe luxurious and really free life you know and they would like to learn something that maybe they they want it when they were young or something like that these kinds of institutions are mostly aimed at you know providing
these adults with opportunities to learn new things, though they aren't often about academic studies, but more of electronic devices they may not know how to use or just activities like dance or singing for fitness or enjoyment. And this goal is to kind of enrich their lives and give them chances to connect and communicate with peers. Are there a lot of students
senior students here in China? Are there a lot of programs? Are there a lot of institutions that are involved in this? The market demands a kind of a field and explosive rise in this kind of elderly universities. An article from 36KR, which is a tech media outlet, reported on
The April of 2023, saying that over 76,000 public and private elderly universities served more than 20 million senior learners, yet that addresses only about 8% of China's 290 million people aged 60 and above.
And, you know, this kind of capitalizing on this group, private brands require minimal qualifications, which is a standard business license leading to a franchise surge since 2024. So many not only public institutions, also some private brands are also creating or building up these franchises.
elderly universities. - Oh, so private brands meaning like private educational institutions. - Yes. - Like an academy type thing? - I don't think they're that formal.
I think they're using the idea of nursing homes, but they are for learning and for creating opportunities for elderly to learn things. Well, there are the nursing home types where, yes, you check in into a nursing home. Usually, well, the price ranges. There are the cheaper ones and the more expensive ones. And then...
if you enroll into a nursing home, then I think you kind of expect that there are going to be these fun classes that are mainly for leisure and entertainment, and you maybe learn a little bit of something along the way. But also quite commonly seen is maybe in sort of like community colleges, or maybe just a community learning center somewhere near your home-ish. And then
You can pop in for a couple of classes, maybe study photo editing or using some of the digital devices or play Tai Chi, Guzheng, and all kinds of fun things. And these are far more affordable, although compared with the U.S. But still, I think it's pretty common for Chinese seniors to be very economical. Or maybe this is...
a stereotype, sorry, grandma and grandpa, to make them pay for stuff, you really need to make it worthwhile because they're very shrewd with their wallet. So then that's one of the key differences, I guess, between the two models, right? By the sounds of things, where in America, you have partnerships between the colleges and the senior housing providers that
Yeah, absolutely.
popping up to meet the demand for these learning opportunities. So I guess that's what, we're not talking about exactly the same systems here, are we? They're very different, I'd say. Yeah. Why do you think globally people are kind of, are they rethinking what retirement life looks like for them? And how come education more or less seems to play a role here? Hmm.
When my parents lived in Florida, they lived in a community. It wasn't a nursing home. It wasn't even a retirement community per se.
But in the community, so it was a gated community. And then inside there, they had the community swimming pool and there's a few different streets and homes and things like that. And then they had a, I guess you'd call it a community center, but that's almost a misnomer because it's small. It was like a place that had a little bar in it, a little tiny restaurant, a cafe, a place to read some books and stuff like that. But in there once a week or twice a week, maybe more.
A teacher would come in, and I remember my aunt took an iPad class at the time. And the teacher would come in and teach about different apps that you could download and things like that, and then how to properly use an iPad. And I guess that would fall into the educational category, right, when you're learning something new. I guess what I'm trying to say is it doesn't have to be like...
advanced physics courses. It can be, I suppose. But education can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people, and you can learn a lot of different things, too. And I think that people never really stop wanting to do that, no matter how old they are. And what I was thinking is that maybe education is not even the main point that a lot of people are seeking. I would say it's more of an atmosphere and environment that
Maybe they are looking for, you know, if this would truly be a great option. Even for me, I was thinking if cost wasn't a factor in this case, you know, at least...
That's something I would choose. I would be having the chance to apply to a university and go back to school at almost any age. - Without the pressure. - Without pressure, yes. - Yeah, you don't have the pressure of needing to get an A+ on your whatever test. - Yeah, you're just purely enjoying your school life. - And also university campuses tend to be quite nice, don't they?
often nicer perhaps even than the house that they used to live in so you know it can be a really cool experience yeah that said you know it comes with downsides too is it the price well that's one of them isn't it it's the monthly fees and I was reading that for some of these schools you need to pay a lot it's not just the monthly fee you have to pay an
almost like a membership fee, I guess, to even get there in the first place. I'll give you an example. There's one place called The Pines, and prices start with an entrance fee there of $55,000, and that's before you pay your monthly charge of
of almost $3,300 a month for a studio apartment. A two-bedroom villa with a balcony, so the upscale living spaces. Your entrance fee for the Pines is $598,000, right? We're approaching a million dollars there. And the cost per month is $7,830.
I'm not even converting them into yuan yet, and it's very expensive already. Yeah, it's pricing out almost everyone, isn't it? Well, it also shows having...
And a comfortable retirement is out of the reach for many people. Yeah. I mean, advocates of these types of programs and people who will defend those prices will tell you that they are somewhat similar to assisted assisted living centers anyway. So the prices are comparable. Right. Well, retirement with good health.
and a pension? That indeed is the golden age, a rare chance to learn, travel, and thrive. But this isn't the final chapter. The hardest part of aging comes later when health declines and dependency arises. That's when gaps in elder care, housing, and health care become urgent.
Today's vibrant senior life, as we've been talking about, is worth celebrating. But it's also a chance to rethink how we prepare for the full arc of aging. The challenge is building systems that carry us through the stages of later life. And as a member of the fellow millennial generation, and I've chatted with friends in America and the UK, and my peers say that
Thinking about my golden years, I'm thinking about I might need to work till I drop. And sorry to end this topic on a little bit of a bleak note, but I think it is time for the whole world to rethink retirement.