#218 – Making Money and Being Happy with Sam Parr and Shaan Puri of My First Million
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What's up, everybody? This is courtlandt andi hacker's to com and you're listening to the ni hackers podcast. More people than ever are building cool stuff online and making a lot of money in the process.

And on this show, I sit down with these andy hackers to discuss the idea as the opportunities and the strategies they're taking advantage of so the rest of us can do the same. All right, i'm here with sham puri and sapa to my favorite podcast host. You guys host the excEllent show, my first million. Welcome to you. The india is podcast.

Let me ask you a question. What was the valuation of strike when you sold to them?

I think he was like nine nine billion dollars, like April two thousand and seventeen.

Three part question that results at same, knowing your current k that .

was part one. Answer the third, I know the third question.

what the valuation now ninety ninety .

five billion dollars now I .

think wasn't .

even risky back then. Did did they feel risky when when you?

No, no, no, no. I didn't feel risky at all of the time because trade is obviously a good company already. But also that was not even on my mind.

I wasn't thinking like what's the valuation stripe? I was more just thinking like i'm running this like really tiny, scrappy website. Like how do I make enough money to pay my rent? And so I was just trying to get sponsors.

And I this giant list of like the perfect sponsors in the hackers and stripe was number one on that list. Like, after I built up enough of sales skills, I was going to reach out to them. But before I got to that point, Patrick CEO failed me, was OK. Can we buy any hackers? So, okay, of course, it's much Better than getting a sponsor.

They shown courland you know cortland has a brother yeah I found the .

south of the day that you have a twin brother yeah .

but they they don't look identical but ah they look similar. But he came to my he came to Austin like a month ago or three weeks ago and he came over on like a tuesday or wednesday. We had a good time and then he ended up coming over on friday and we ate dinner and he was like, guys want to go out and i'm like, no, I don't really go out. Sa, my wife was like, yeah, I go out with you and they went out until like three or four like party, I get if you .

get my brother to with me and like, do you can visit me in seattle? He's like, now I get Better things to do, like just some last week for the very first time since the pandemic started. Oh my god, he's like my right hand man.

And hackers, kind of in the same way that youtube were together. Your show, my first million, why do you tell? Listen, is what you show is about because I haven't heard IT yet.

It's basically two dudes who uh, started startups and have been doing IT for like ten years, just getting together and shoot the shit about what other other startups either are cool that we've seen or we think we would be cool if somebody started. And so it's it's basically a brainstorm.

And what happens is if you listen to IT, you know most people who listen to IT, they they get entertainment because it's kind of found and it's off the cough and IT will mean some were back forth a little bit. But the big thing is that gets the wheel turning. Like once you start listened to this, you'll just start seeing business ideas and opportunities all over the place almost to an extent, this kind of annoying. It's a switch you can turn off and that's how we're wire, that's how we are. And so we are kind of infecting other people .

with the same disease. And a lot of people think that like we're just showing up and in some like summer guards is true and that we can totally go off the cuff. But we also research way more than people probably think so throughout the week will see stuff.

And like I don't actually know how shy does that. I think well, he probably does the same thing. But i'll like get on the phone with someone and i'll say, tell me everything and i'm like taking notes and I like thanks. So I think almost like it's very like traditional journalism. And I like, by the way, everything you say i'm going to talk about, I don't talk to me about anything you don't want everyone to know and it's pretty cool.

I think the difference is a lot of people would be like, that makes sense. You have the show so you do research for the show. The reality is that I think for the last ten years, this is all we did in general.

We're just a curious cats who I can stop. So in the same way, that seems like what was stripe valuation when you got a car? Okay, cool. Then would be like, you know, what is the table aquaria worth? And then you'll know you'll do all this research just for your own, you know, shots and aggers and then that just get stored in your memory bank somewhere.

So what happened was we just do that naturally as like a part of our daily work, like we're lucky that our work, that our job kind of lets us just go down these rabbit holes. You see a business like today, I was going for a run, and this a this truck was driving, had like a, like a piece of heavy machinery behind IT called and they said, van meir and our good buddies last name is then mere. And so I was like, I like, well, i'm just on this run where i'm going to be focused on running and instead i'm like, I literally like, possible, like google when meer, i'm like, is this like his great grandfather? What is this spread? I bet you do these tractors an's crushed.

How much does this one mere company make and like what's their business model? And and I have a longer they ve been around there. There are any new companies doing this. And so that's like a addiction that I had basically, that's my process. My process is constant, go around the world observing things, and then go down the abbot hole to figure out what's the back door behind all that.

So I did that the other day that i've have ever seen, semi trucks. And on the back they have what looks like a tail. It's it's like a two foot.

How do I describe IT? Imagine the back of a of a truck and IT has these like wings, but they kind of curve in. So it's like the end of a cube.

I'm not explaining IT well, but the end of a cube. But if these wings that point in so I saw one of these trucks today, and I was like, what the hell is this? And I looked this service like .

a spoiler for a truck.

It's like a spoiler for a truck, but he doesn't look like a traditional poilus that. And I looked IT up, and I like, what the hell is the thing? And there is a company based out of redwood city making these, and I just saw on the road and I would help, and they promise that it's going to make you like point five percent more efficient and it's only like five hundred dollars or though whatever IT is. And I decided the exact same thing. I saw this this truck like I got to got to know what this is and the company saw for two hundred million dollars, like not that long at d dynamics, I believe, is what I was called um and so anyway, this is like yeah that we do the exact tim shit it's .

addict ve to listen to you because even on my show, how do like a brains when we ever ode every now and then and if I just call and ever so business ideas for twenty twenty one, it's like twice as many downloads as every other for so like how yeah I want to free business ideas then I worry that people who are like addicted to these types of shows aren't actually building stuff, are doing anything you just want to hear more, more ideas rather than actually like start working .

on something I call that getting addicted to the medicine where you've take the medicine is supposed to cure the problem and should I be able to move honestly life and some people just love drink robot sm every day at at some point, right? You don't want to get stuck in that pattern where you just want to keep get more and more advice, more and more ideas. It's like, well, yeah, if it's for entertainment, which I think is what most people do, they get if you use IT for entertainment, not they want to have friends in their life that want to geek out about business the way they do. And we are like their friends who who like to no doubt about business even more than they do.

And I also think that like we do have a lot of like legit bowlers who are listeners. I mean, if you said you're a listener, so there's not that many people that ever take action on anything, but I do think we've got a really good ratio of that. I think in the future, I think actually we should consider almost i'm incredibly fascinated with the idea of going daily.

We haven't discuss IT yet, but it's something I think about and like because I find myself listening to like burn in b and all these other podcast. And I love them because they talk about current events and they give their opinion on IT. And I think there's a world where we could kind of do that.

And the reason i'm saying that as we kind of already do so, like when something happens, like every day when bitcoin like drop changed a thing right away on sunday morning and IT was a huge hit. And so like we definitely, we don't do like a traditional, maybe pathetic, a lot of people, our industry do where they are doing like interviews or something that little bit more ever Green. And we do ever Green up, but we definite can react really quickly to things with our angle. And that's kind of intriguing.

Yeah I think every great contents overrate IT, I mean, it's it's kind of a clay that that's the type of content you should be putting your time into. But if you trying to do something that's entertaining and you want people to come back every single day like nobody, he's really creative to make african content every single day.

But if you're just giving your opinions on the news, like shit happens and people want to know about IT and they like your personality, but you can just gain on the air and just be authentic or just write authentically with your voice, and you can rack up, like millions of listeners to subsidies. In fact, this is how most of the big media companies is online Operate. Sam, your news letter, the hustle as a couple of millions describes, is just giving your opinions and takes on the news is started I enough.

you know how I started, but I started off when he was the beginning. I was more like every Green hits, long form, super interesting blogs like like kind of going for home runs like we're going to talk about a topic nobody is talking about in a way that nobody y's talking about IT. It's going to be amazingly manufacturer and they're going to distribute that and try to get that one blog post.

To like millions of visits and IT was working. But I was also like, due this is the tread mill I want to be on. Or what if we just went lightweight daily, react to the news, summarized and react to the news, give people what they need to know in five minutes, and like not try to be kind of like genius original content creator every week as my summer at the same? I don't know .

that's accurate.

It's very accurate. IT. IT was hard. I mean, I could do IT probably, but it's the hard as life and it's really hard to hire for.

There is a reason why casey nice dad did what he did for a year and then quit. He was like, oh my god, this is exhAusting. It's chAllenging. Yeah.

just too hard. Like if if your goal is to produce content and your strategy is that you're going to come up with new interesting ideas for every video or every podcast and like that idea is dead on arrival, I think you got to index on some other source of novelty, whether it's the news or on this show. Like I don't ever come up with new business ideas.

You know, I just have people on who have their own business ideas. And like, that is an endless st process. I can never going to run out of people to enter you who have cool and interesting new business ideas.

And so that is a much Better way to go about IT. And I think you guys on your show, my first million, you have, I don't know, you kind of the same thing you're talking about other business ideas that others have come up with. And you also just got pot by a hub spot. So I assume at least you say probably have some sort of financial incentive to keep working on the show and making.

no, I I mean, so we the podcast is his job.

Yeah.

the podcast is my jobs. So when we like, we were gonna ll like, they started reaching out to us. And during that time, I had basically already made an offer to someone to be the CEO so I could do poca stuff.

And when they wanted to buy us, and I go, okay, well, i'm gna have to resist my offer to to this guy because I was promising him that he's going to run IT independently and that's no longer going to be true. So I did that with him and I go, but then you also had to promote someone from within or hire someone to be like the boss because i'm not going to be the boss. I would love to be here and continue doing and do content because I love you, but i'm not gonna be the CEO.

So and also, there's no we don't haven't earn out like there's no there's like milestones that we want to hit, but like I don't have like money on the line in order to hit that milestone. And so it's a little bit different. Like when you're saying, like I mean the trenches I am, but like if I I would do anyway.

I would say I would say it's more like there's a period when you get acquired when you're like, alright, give me the cool laid past the cool laid like i'll drink IT. You know, like I think I think for a lot of people, I I was this way. I saw the street for myself is a period we are like, uh, they give me the swag and then I showed, well, at least when you're in person is it's a lot easier than when you're remote.

But like it's very easy. Just get swept up. It's I go and I added to this meeting and oh, we'd love to pick your brain about x, you know, you start getting pulled in all these strategy things. You're the street smart, new like high energy strategy guy who is not like scar and jaded by all past failures.

And so do you start getting pulled in all these things you're able to contribute to meet all these people at your you're at the cafeteria and you like, god, my life has stressed now because I sold my started up like there's a period where you're like all about IT and then what i've said, I to speak my self, there's a transition period we like, okay, like working super hard here really doesn't really get me any more or less than if I just do what I enjoy and I work like the amount of freedom and lack of oversight. I think more than you're type about a little be earlier. I did this at twitch, which is the first year I tried to kill IT.

I did everything I could. I wasn't like work in one hundred hours a week, but the hours I was working, I was like, i'm going to do the most high impact thing I could do for this company at all times and i'm going to be me on blast and I was doing IT. And then then like a year and I was like, well, i'm leading this team and at a big company is really like you're doing all the jobs of a start up year without the upside.

It's like higher fire people, set the strategy, dictate the road map, managed a whole thirty people or whatever pitch for funding basically in your funding is just head count ah and resources. And so it's like all the jobs of a CEO without the like actual freedom and actual upside of a and so I went to the CEO and I was like, hey, like, you know, I just hit my one year and thinking about what's next. It's smart to either like sign up now for another full year or like bounce, if I want to bounce.

And so I said, you don't have a lot of fun here, but like if i'm going to do all this work for a start up, I should just go to start my and start up I should own all my upside you understand he he's founders to you understood and he said I said, but you know there could be a model here that works um like here's what here's what I would like and and so I like sort of laid out a role that I thought would be fun for me and I was basically like, you know something i'm interested in with no direct reports with no like kind of like it's not like a mission critical project like the one I was doing before. So it's like more of a creativity fund freedom product that project. And I was like, i'm going to work this hard and I still think i'll make an impact, but i'm going to work like roughly this hard.

And I got all these other things I do with the pocket is growing. So like if you are a cool with all that, then i'd love to stay on. And they gave me to me.

And I guess, like i've seen that that's a pretty typical path of a founder you go from. Like, I want to crush IT, justify IT. Learn everything from, learn everything I can from this company and like prove myself, then you're like, okay, don't need to like prove myself so much more.

Prove myself, learn to learn to budget stuff. It's kind of repetitive. Now let me transition to either out the door or chill mode. You know where you're you're cruising doing is doing what just the party you enjoy with none of this stuff you don't enjoy and then and then it's like gets the h to go. The buyers know that and they know that.

Yeah, at first I was so afraid to be like, hey, but I love I really love these people and I connected with themselves like, i'm at a level with you and I was waiting for them to flinch and they are like, we've seen this radio like one hundred times like, we get IT I know you are and you that what I got you like when we bought the company and like, look, I want you to be here forever. But if, like, literally emit the CEO messes me one day, he just goes, look, I know you're going to want to go start a company someday. I wish we could keep you forever.

I know that's not could be the case when you do your next thing, i'll be your first check in. And so that was like a totally different mindset than this, like what I thought would be no, that like what you're saying is bad and evil and how dare you but there's like, you know the people please are in me was still like a little bit hesitant exactly just be fully honest but what I did else I go, great this is no problem. They understand there yeah and and it's a big show like I think i'm the star and they're like, do this thousands of people of this company and next year to go, they'll be a new year. We ve seen this turn over time .

and there's also this middle road, which is like IT. Who cares what the paperwork says that there's a handshake agreement that says you got you're ethically say i'm going to provide value to you. You're going to provide value to me.

Me personally, i'm still more important like i'm more important to myself than that company is. I'm like die to help you but like we have a hair tric agreement. I'm going to give you value. I'm also going to extract value and hopefully a fifty one, forty nine like when you get more value. But that's what are going to do.

Well, there's a path that I see a lot of people taking right now that shine you kind of seem to beyond. And it's kind of like this individual successful investor rich tech guy path. And IT seemingly goes like this.

You're build an audience for yourself. You've got a podcast or your own close house. You're twitter all the time. You just sort of put out your wisdom, your knowledge and to the universe and the people who like you glam on to you and the people who don't don't follow you and you keep doing that day after day, week after week.

Like you treat that like a full time job and you build an audience and you start to get to know a lot of people. And through that, you start getting access to investment opportunities. So overall, you're converting social capital and to financial capital.

The social capital is all the trust that you're building with your audience day after day is going to show them up and prove in the people that you actually are who you say you are and you know what you're talking about. And the people come to you with deals and you can much earlier than the average person gets a look. So for example, someone he's doing this really well is saw hl from gump road.

He started gumm road gum rod huge and that isn't actually ly many super liquid, right? Like the company turns a lot, but like he isn't sold IT or exit IT. So where is he going to make money? Well, IT turns out people really like sohle they like what to say.

And so he's console going on every podcast he's tweet like it's his job. He's he was earlier at clubhouse, got a huge volume and clubhouse. And then he also set up a rolling fund, and I don't know how often would be once every week, once every few days, somebody just puts like twenty twenty five thousand dollars.

And he was rolling fun for him to invest. And now I think he is like thirteen million dollars that he's investing a bath of other people and he gets to keep a percentage of the process and also a percentage of the money and total. And that's pretty Lucy, if you have a big audience so shy kind of seems to me like you're going down the same path.

Yeah well, I think it's I think actually think it's fairly um it's it's fairly paved this path, but I think that it's like a path that's been paved. But then all of a sun, they built all these new roadside things. They go, every restaurant went here before all this a castaing. wow.

Now we can go away further, right? That's what I see. So so I grew up and like I there's a couple of major influences on me when I was kind of like making a shifted to business. And the first was a time fair. So somebody somehow have some way.

I got my hands up for a work week and I had, what would you call the four hour fever? Which is when you finish the book for the next four hours, you're like, fuck everything in my life. I'm changing everything like i'm doing all these things.

why? Why do I have passive income? Why am I working so hard? Why do I have a virtual assistance? And why do I travel? I, why don't I, you know, get fit? Like, you want to change all these things because he makes you seem so desirable and so achievable, right? So that was the first big influence on me and a guy like to fears of in in many ways, when you know the person who sort showed you the way you're like, well, I respect you, I like you, but also I kind of want to be you. It's all I saw.

Okay, here's a dude who basically took his own life experiences is still IT down into some kind of Operating philosophy, and then packed ed IT up for the world to consume through books and blog essentially and then later a pocket, later a news letter are the things um he translated his fame into access for deal so he invested in uber, invested I think a twitter at a couple couple other big ones and also had like a great kind of like friend group that that emerged from that was always hanging in with interesting people that seemed super fund to me. So I really like this guy's lifestyle, and I thought I didn't really even like decide at that time. But I always just thought of that amazing.

But to me at the time, I felt like if I wanted to pursue that, I felt like saying you, I want to go a little bran James, or like, I want to go in to hollywood, be George colony IT just felt like a well, that's a lot of your game. I think there's not I can't name fifteen, ten faris at the time at least. I thought only a few people like this is probably not a good path to get on.

So was the first influence. Second one was tony, rob. And same sort of thing was like, oh, wow, this guys great. I discovered this content helps me out a lot, change way.

I saw the world with his Operating philosophy, and I was like, I went to one of his his events and I was like, holy fuck, there's ten thousand people in this arena paying thousands of dollars to like, like, just attend this guy show. This performance sounds like I never seen anybody like this. Never see the speaker captive of people like there's, how the fuck is this guy do IT. And I was pretty like an hammered with that was very like intoxicating to seat.

I think, okay, I don't really want this lifestyle like just like with ton fairs, I didn't want to write books and because that seems slow and kind of boring, just like only Robins, I didn't want to go on tour, but I wanted elements of what they had, which was a call out of life experiences, which help, which you then are still until Operating philosophy you share that you build a big trusted audience, and then you turn that social capital into financial capital so that that funds you doing you full time. Your job, your company is you and so I just thought, oh, that's prety fun like I I think a guy like tim fairs, I think he basic wakes up, I don't know time actually knows him, but i'm out of once that he seemed like a IT pretty curious, do ted and what IT seemed like his life is, as he wakes up, is curious about a thing like IT might be because he's having some pain point in his life. Like, I want to lose belly fat or like, I just got diagnosed with this like disorder.

And this is the traditional medicine, but doesn't m to work so well. What are the alternatives? And then he just goes down that rabbit hole.

He learns IT about IT from the best. He's self experiments. And then he comes out the other side, and he teaches that everybody else. And I thought, oh, that's dupe. This do just gets to be like a curious student and gets paid millions of dollars for IT.

That seems like way more fun than what I was doing than a Normal job, for sure, but even more fun than being a start of CEO picking a basket, raising money for investors, having a team that you're got to go to the office every day and long raw, keep everybody happy and keep everybody motivated. Come up with this strategy. So I I just looked at once I sold my company else, like, right? Am I gonna p bulls shit or what like? I'm going to try that path even though the odds seem bad. Or or I just put away that that idea forever, because I just decided .

to rents that bad at the time.

I felt really hard and impossible.

Well, to be unfair. It's like you said, he was like one of the only ones doing that that that wasn't a very clear path to follow. Where is now there is someone see the first level.

He might be number one in that kind of feel. Actually tty Robin and others are kind a little bit bigger than haber.

Then you have hamp, but then you have like you know a run down you'll have I know who ever pick your favorite James clear or you know remember to the or whoever and then you have in every knee you have a thought leader so you realized, okay, it's not at all in nothing game like at the minimum I can land in little of like level three right now and feel some version of success then if I just keep going, maybe i'll get there and i'm pretty like, I don't know. Cocky y flash confidence so I was like, okay, you know why not me? right? Like I met tom.

I was like, there's nothing there's nothing magical about this guy ah seems like a Normal person just like me who like he just did him on blast for ten, fifteen years I could do that. That seems that seems doable. That's how how I describe this path.

And it's not always about an investments like, sure, ten fairs made a lot of money from investing. But talking about James clear just spoke with hamman mark maths in the other week. They were both prolific bloggers and a James clear, for example, he was able to go as mAiling less to like a millions of scribers just from blogging consistently and had been really good at seo. And then they both throw books and they were going to took their best blog post that they had proved and worked to the best and they turned them into like that selling books. And yeah, exactly.

I think markets book, if you read, I went read like an annual report from fox or news court, whoever owns like penguin books or something and they're like, what's this book call that I called like, fuck you. I don't care the subtle art of yet, but not giving a fuck. IT was IT like, they like positioning IT as like the break out hit that saved the company. I mean, he was like, a pretty big match.

right? It's huge. It's huge. I mean, people severely underestimate how much money you can make from a really good book if you have a huge audience like most conviction books probably sell a thousand and a few thousand copies of you lucky. But the subtle er not giving a focus le, something like fourteen million copies and mark probably makes two or three dollars a copy. No, wait.

you're telling me you think he made .

over thirty million dollars .

off that book? I think he .

made at least thirty million dollars maker. It's hard like James clear again, he had a email sub ribes in addition to doing all the work of writing a book and getting all the subscribers, he also did like four hundred podcast interviews before the release of automatic habits. And like these are like the top books and their categories. But I suspect that if you have a huge ideas beforehand, you you ve got to play publishers off of each other. Like i've had multiple publishers detail me about doing a book for any hackers and you could probably negotiate to get higher than like the industry standard of like fifty percent royalties zone books sales.

right? I don't remember if it's time that told me this or if I read IT about him, but I think he said in order, revenue streams were something like, so highest to lost was investing advertising revenue and then significantly blow. Number three was books.

right? And that doesn't shock me. I mean, I think successful tech artus are a lot more lucrative than books. And I think tim was like early to uber, something crazy like a shop fy to alone L I mean, being earlier to one hundred billion dollars shot up is among the best investments that any human has ever made ever.

But even, even that that's what I have saying when there's new stuff built on the road. What are the things that you know for me? I used was this idea of a roling fund, sam, us.

sp. v. And syndicates on Angela st. So like I pretty sure tim is investing his own money. Maybe there was like some back in deal.

We're like whatever sickle gave him money as a scout or something, but I think he was just investing his own money. But like for example, we're nowhere near tim size now. We're nobody, nothing clipsed and um I tweed out hey, I want to raise a roly fund.

You know, if people want to go invest in deals with me, i've been investing in here here. Here's an option. Here's a link basically and that turned in for me with zero outreach, zero meetings um and zero reaching out to my own personal network.

So these are all strangers from the internet who just follow the podcast. Or follow me on twitter. And that became four million a year of investible income.

Just to put that in the terms, that's not a huge number, right? I think exam will probably invest even more, maybe five times more this year of his sync ates. And he did the same thing, just leverage his own fame to raise money.

And so if you just do the math on that, right so let's say four million year um my eto standard Carries twenty percent. I don't take any new management fees but like I could take a two percent management y so two person agent fee that's atk year. So that's like you know pretty much like a starting .

gallery you know for for yeah that's like pays .

the bills that was my salary. That's my salary when I started. Yeah just the first part.

Then you take the Carry so you're basic saying of every four million invest, every four million invested. It's the equivalent of me getting to write about eight eight hundred thousand. This is round up to a million, uh a million dollars a year of started investments.

So and the start investments take, you know, let's call IT ten years to to mature for that fund to to fully pay out so that basically ten million dollars of invest, the money that I get to invest that I didn't have to take out of pocket. It's just ten million dollars of equity value without counting in the appreciation of any of those investments, right? And a good fund, White three x and value.

And so you know a good find, you can do Better. But but even just like Normal solid returns over the ten year period would be a triple. And so that would mean that my ten million in equity value IT becomes like thirty million in an equity value.

And this is for something that I did put I just train. I just snapped my fingers and turn audience into cash. But it's a win win. It's not like i'm charging them something.

I'm giving them access into a my brain of knowing what start investments are good and bad, but be my deal flow of deals they could never get access to in the private market. So you get this win win with your audience, but it's pretty massive value. And that vehicle, that rolling fun that didn't exist for, you know, tempie IT didn't exist for tony rome.

They had to find a different way. It's just everything's is easier now just like strike made is easier to take payments, like it's easier now to raise money, it's easier to create merch, it's it's easier to create a course. It's very easier to do all the different business model tactics that you can do.

Like p pop is another kind of like solo creator and he's got like a job board and so he's big bitcoin and that there was known force. So we created pop script jobs, not come or something like that. So he's making, I believe he didn't he didn't confirm this, but are just my own kind of soothing here.

He's making almost a million dollars year of his job board, right? So he was like a you know, high level person at stap at facebook, whatever. He's basically replacing that with a pass sive income streamed again, just snap his finger who spend up a financial asset tiffs s could have done that, right? But they didn't have these tools nor awareness to use IT. They were following the traditional playbook which was like right books give uh speeches, like go to go get paid big thirty thousand dollars to go talk at some company and the last one was like he created A T V show, was like go for mainstream media and um and now we have like way more tools and our tool belt that we can use to generate much more income.

And despite all these tools that help you make money, I still don't think it's like necessarily the most accessible path to start with because you ve got to build an audience first. And that's a doggy dog world, like a tony people after their hustling, trying to make a name for themselves. And most of the people I know who was succeeded or kind like a two of you, where you have these previous business successes that lend your creations and help your audiences like build trust with you.

Yeah by the way, we didn't we didn't have that audience either like eighteen months ago and either die pop and have that audience two years ago, three years ago. So IT can be built filename, but you're right, not everyone wants to or can. This is not a thing for me, like anybody can do IT.

It's or so it's it's anybody can do IT, but not everybody can do IT. Um so IT is open to all, but IT is not gonna achievable. Bio.

okay, so let's get in to some ideas. Talk about ideas that like the average person can do or build. Uh, you guys have your own sources, ideas, say, and you've got the hustle.

You've got a team of journalists to literally working around the clock to find new interesting business stories and ideas to bring to you for me. I've got any hackers. I'll go to the any hacker's product directory, you know what?

Yeah, i'll just sort by like recently updated and then I look at who's making at least ten thousand dollars month revenue and just see what pops up. Like see cool ideas, people working. You need like a growth rate one yeah, you add that for sure.

I built this whole directory a few years ago and there's only like one hundred products on IT. And I check the other day others like over four teen thousand products where people sort of show what they're doing and how much money they're making and what they're going on and how they come up their idea stuff. So I should definitely had more features to IT at this point is pretty cool.

But one of the trends have been noticing is just people sort of deconstructing and making really small niece versions of big venture funded apps. So a good one is like calm dot com. It's a big mindfulness sort of meditation APP.

And there's some others in the sector that are making like tens of millions, hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue, and they've got like a ton of investment. And then on any hacker ers, i've found people who are making like little small versions of them. So one of them was called montreal, was built by this guy a few years ago.

And you look at this time line and see like exactly what I thought process was. So he says he was lying in bed watching his girl end at the time, use a daily affirmation to happen, and you figure to build something that Better. And so this is the very first APP is ever made.

And it's super simple. Like I dialed to the APP, you open IT up and I just got different categories for affirmation. So it's got like improve your sex life.

These affirmations will help create a more satisfying sexual experience in your life and generate, well, these affirmations will help attract wealth, abundance and prosperity to your life. And just stuff like that. that's.

And so IT turns out a few years later, two hundred thousand people have allowed to this APP. And he decided to add subscriptions. So he pay twenty box a year to get access to themes and music and whatever. And I think he made thirty five hundred dollars in his very first month.

He's got ten thousand reviews and the abrogating is four point eight.

Yeah, is doing pretty well. So is latest update. He's now at fifty thousand dollars months n revenue and he writes about how he's completely underestimated how the excepted gid, he totally underinvestment in IT.

He hasn't put a single dime on paid marketing and instead he spent like the last few years, just work on other apps. So we kind of regret IT, and that was going back to work on monday. Give IT more extention shot.

You should tell him about horse copes because the same thing.

Now what about horsey?

So we did we interview the guy? His him is ross. There's a guy who raise money from much of new york media folks. Maybe he raised fifteen million dollars and he was his APP was in the same space as as montral APP. But basically courtland did you know that like women love horse copes?

I ve yet to date anybody who wasn't into a storage. So I am .

aware so like even like I dismiss horse copes as like some like wu nonsense bullshit, but even like smart women like my wife and like shan's wife, like I want to do IT even if it's at a casual level and I was like taking like oh i'm also like a tune like bro science as well. So it's just like their versions of bro science.

And we we found so there is a APP that raise maybe ten or fifteen million, and they're probably making millions of dollars a year to in horse copes. Then we went and found horse cope with horse pe or sadoc u something like that, where IT was like the most, like old school. Not nice look at website. And they were very likely could be making ten million a year of these things. And IT was just getting crazy amount of traffic because the amount of people who read or consume horse cope content is like like half of amErica because it's like eighty percent of women like member and it's mark .

too because it's daily. Like you don't just check your hard scope once and then never again. Like you come back and check IT every single day. It's like what you're talking about earlier with the news and entertainment like this is something where you can collect subscription and revenue and people aren't to stop coming back.

I was given an example of a there's a guy who's building some APP that's like you can ask you with like kind of experts so it's sort of like, oh, if you're redoing your kitchen, you can actually like get a fifteen in a video call with this that person from hg TV, right? So they found all these like, hey, Justin biber stylist, will I give you style advice for thirty minutes if you want to pay hundred fifty box or whatever? And so I sort of like camel, but you're working these like fifteen and thirty eight calls with the whose who of fashion, beauty, home improvement, all these categories and I was looking at the number that was like, oh yeah, that's great.

You seen some growth like which which vertical is IT is one winner and they're like, yeah you know spread out I was like, yeah but like certainly one has to be doing Better than all the others. They are like, yeah, actually astrology is different pretty well. And I like, I like not even on your site yeah yeah, I I go over there on the far right into this thing because even he was kind of like, you know, start the thing we want to lead with what we're fundraising.

He didn't say all that but like you could tell, IT wasn't IT wasn't what he thought would win nor was IT. What would they are promoting the most? But IT was the thing that was working to us, and he showed me, and I went down the rap hole again and professionally curious.

So I go on instagram and I started finding all the instagram astrology accounts, astrology influences, basically. And it's like eighty thousand, ninety thousand and two hundred thousand, five hundred thousand followers and these are like just like, you know, some chicken florida or like some chicken like uniting to beach who like, you know dresses the way you would imagine and like her. Every every post is like, oh, like the shockers are aligned.

Didn't like today if you experience a good advantage because I told you this or whatever, right? Like example shit. And and then in like link in the bio is basically like an only fans to book a reading with her and you go, oh my g here yah let's book a reading, I see. Let's go end end with this this professional curiosity and it's like sold out.

Just every session is booked for like weeks and and what he was doing with those, some of those people were using his platform, but even the others were just using a boot like version of this IT made me think there is an only fans for for palm e reading, astrology, horse copes, you like sort, like relationship, like video, whatever. And like the same thing happens, not just like in america, in india, this is a huge thing, an idea. When you have a kid, you take your kid to like the local guru.

Because of course, every village that just happens to have like a mystic grew that lives there. And he's like you, he's like graphic, holding the baby in a simba like looks at and he'd like to write you on a score like your whole life story and like the dozen donors, it's like, you know donate black beans, don't get married in the months of september don't date anyone with the letter j in the name and it's like and people believe this like to their core. They're just like, you know he's a great guy like his name is, you know trade on or whatever.

I just got a jay and there, but we can't take trade. We got to break up a tragedy here. And it's like like people believe this in every every walk of life. And I think that's one area that like A C looking valley doesn't talk about. But be there is a lot of simple software solutions you could build that a that can get you maybe not to one hundred million in revenue, but like you get to ten came on the profit. You get to fifty came on the profit.

Doing these things will make you rich like, yeah, we like talk a lot about that on the payout for like it's pretty like raising money and going big I think is sick. And i'm happy that the people who do IT do IT, maybe i'll do IT one day. But if you're like goals to optimize for, like wealth creation, some of these apps or smaller, relatively smaller ideas are actually significantly likely to make you wealthy and perhaps be more fun along the way.

And a lot of more just refill posing ideas that have existed in the past and some former another that used to be doing really well. So you kind of just look at like what people used to do that worked, and then just try again. So like the hard scope industry always had these influences of people really trust.

And I don't know if you guys remember is cleo SHE had just like mystic t line in the nineties? Yeah no, yes. Ah okay. Like that business was crushing IT like they made like a billion dollars .

or something I mean, yeah, he was just a hired model or like he actually was .

wo SHE wasn't mystical.

SHE was like he was like a professional palm reader. But like the owners of the marketing company, like heard her speak and are like, oh my gosh, you are you're going to be our woman, know you are our person and they paid her like not you know like a hundred a year. Some like Normal salary and a IT was pretty well. And in lot of the stuff seems Sandy.

but is there's other examples like there's like sleep is a great category for your time of calm and one of calm features is sleep stories and it's paid feature. But like we know we know and have met owners of sleep apps that do everything from you know just White noise or like raindrop sound effects or whatever to sleep stories, to sleep stories, but just in other languages and they just focus on like you know the spanish speaking market or whatever.

And there's just like an infinite number of these cases that exists both in software or you know d to c like for example, um just to tie back and what we're talking about earlier in the d to c space, um like the fact that tim fairs doesn't have his own like neutrogena drink or like cattle bell brand left money on the table. You know mean like and the person who actually did this really well was joe rogan and right, he has like alpha brain and whatever the supplements company is. And I think sam do the numbers Better than I do on this, but that's like a hundred million dollars of your company. I think maybe .

i'm a little IT was acquired their day friends who know the company told me it's over a three hundred million dollars and o owned like twenty right?

And so like he that his his own passion area, he talked about new ways why take sponsors money to talk about somebody else's brand when like you could just be part owner or White label any these things, right? So there's a whole sweet of those types of ideas. And this happens again.

Like to look at another country. Look in india, all the famous like kind of like goose in india, it's like, oh, this guy a saint. He only accept donations and like make million dollars of donations. And then as they get famous, like miss cleo style, I think the top guy like has like his own ROM and noodle company and like right, he is licensed his face onto roman noodles and crackers or something like that and is like a billionaire from from this roman noodle company. And yet at the same time, it's supposed to be this like religious, same.

just the most basic stuff.

right? But like we can learn from them. Like if you're trying to learn this, like what is this solo like kind of solo creator playbook, but you got to know what are all the tools and the tools x and then you use the ones that that you want. But actually I was going to ask you a different question, which is, are going to mind me of this who is having the most fun with what they do for a living? Uh, I somebody had asked me this question in our group chat.

Somebody asked question and I was like a great question, right? Because once you see that, you see a model you're like and it's not they are having the most but like, I think that would be super fine if that was me, it's kind of a one version of the question um because that that can become a blueprint. Then like why why don't you just going for that? And my answer was georgine, and i'll give you kind of my defense for jorgen, but I would love if you guys have other answers of somebody who you've seen just having a blast or you there having a blast and you think that would be a blast for you too.

Curious, there are any other answers like the joo gan reasoning to me is he basically got the podcast, which like, clearly he does for fun because he was doing IT before he made any money, before he sold to, before he sold the right to spotify for a hundred million dollars year. He was doing IT for free, kind of his bedroom, and when there is no promise of money, so you just meet him bad as people, you on mask neal, the grass is said, he just haven't conversation with the interesting people through that. He gets much of fans who love him.

That's not fun. Then he loves the u fc, the u. fc. commentator. But he also does IT where he doesn't go to every event. That would be exhAusting.

That would be like the trade off, where the job become the hobby becomes a shady job. And he said he's like not only going to do the big paper views in vegas, so that's a easy flight for me. I'm not going to travel around the world trying to chase this thing around anymore.

So that seems fun and then he's a stand up, a comedian, which is like a hard chAllenge, super fun thing to do. And he sells out a rennett around the world and so like and then he's got his brand off for brain. Whatever he works out all the time, like joo ga, just seems like he's doing all the things he wants at the highest level. And so this seems like that's a blast. Who do you guys think is .

having the most fun? okay. I'm going to go with the founder CEO of these humongous like hundred billion million plus tech companies and i'm talking about like the patrol collisions of the world.

Bill gates, Larry is an oracle. Jack baths and amazon, just these absolute titans who are controlling a ton of resources, and they're not like just some higher guns. Eo, who came in later on, I turn the ship around.

Like these are people who are working on the projects that they started, that used to be tiny. So it's kind like their life mission. It's kind like their baby.

And once I get big enough, like IT takes a lot, a lot of work, a lot of hard to get to the point where they're right now. But what's to get to that size? Like you can go to delegate most of the important like urgent work to other people. Like you try to do tenants and then you in control like a massive amount of resources where you can work on your favorite thing and you side projects and all sorts of stuff. So I think that's kind of the most .

unavailable position to be in. We're having I think next week, we're having the cofounder of hub. Spot on, and I will all ask him, but I talk to him regularly and i'm almost positive he doesn't have any direct reports.

And i'm also you can look this up actually, I think he's the largest individual shareholder of hub spot and his value of just hub spot shares is over a billion. And I was like, what did you do this week is like, oh, I bought my wife for her forty eight fiftieth birthday. I bought her this domain called the humans data work.

It's like a, it's just like philosophy we buy into and that's this community. And I was like, this is what you do for funnies like, yeah, the great test up but earth, i'll have to ask him. So i've not insinuating this, but IT appears as though he's got a pretty nice life. I I agree with you that having the resources of a huge company is quite amazing.

It's almost like you're at the top of a coat or you've got millions of people and you're maybe they are not following you because they believe in you. They are following you because of getting paid, but they're still following you. Nevertheless, they're basically do whatever you ask them to do. You can set up whatever life style you want to do, and you have a certain amount of power that anything comes from only having lots of people working in concert with you that you can get just from having lots of money. Now you can deploy that money if you're super rich to get people to working concert with you.

But if you have a company kind of everyone's bought into the cool aid, they're pushing in the same direction and you can launch any sort of cool fund side project that you want to are, you could just go take off or few weeks and like people won't really notice you're gone because thing sort of delegated. And when I compare that to like the content creatures of the world, like ten fares, i'm sure ten fair irs has some fun. But IT seems to stressed like have .

to be ten fair all the time. By the way, it's definitely stressful. My I mean, he's like blogged about like depression and shit and he suffers, although I would say that's part part genetic.

But my best friend, jack smith, jack Smith sold his company for eight hundred million dollars, something like that he probably walked away with before attacks, nearly nine figures or nearly one hundred million dollars. He started the company when he was twenty three. He quit working there at when he was twenty six.

He's now thirty three or thirty two um he lives in a house in hawaii. He has no social file, he has a twitter handle, he has a facebook profile but he doesn't like he probably as one hundred and fifty followers. He's not trying to impress anyone.

He doesn't do any Angel investing what he does in the three time is he's a pen pal for, uh, inmates in prison and so he's currently pent palling with the guy who is like a man who like told himself math and he like gets joy at helping pill the guys I want to get this book. And so jesus, by on the book, like the math book. And he enjoys conversing about IT.

He loves testing different supplements and testing different products on amazon. And he doesn't have that need to create content or be a big shot. He's incredible, comfortable in his own skin.

His wife started, coffee is bao. So she's also a big shot. And so he lives on the beach in hawaii in a rental unit that he probably pays ten thousand dollars a month.

four. And I think key is having the most fun because he doesn't feel the need. I think both Shawn and nine and probably you caught them because we're like these, like public facing things. We definitely have this need to be loved. A jack doesn't only have that, uh, he he only wants to be loved by his close friends and and I think that there's something a great to be said about like contentment and like a humbler. And you you are happy with what you have and you don't really you don't really need much or want more.

And he's also not like on the content trade mill.

No.

he doesn't need not on any trade. He's not on the money trade mill. He's on the on the social climbing trade is on on the content. Red meal is not I I agree with you, sam.

which is so like not having a mission. Sometimes IT seems to get sad. So I like pick a project .

because I was going say so I totally disagrees what you said, garland, and I kind of agree with what you said, so i'll give you both. So corner, I totally disagree in the sense that what i've seed at least is the kind of the C E O, the unicorn. Here's your day.

Your day is mostly uh, accommodation of people problems. So like, you know, your whole job is to put the right people, the right places, but they're all but people are one of them, like biggest pieces of code out there, right? So so you're always debugging that.

You're always debugging people. And then the second thing is um you put that fire. So there's like always a fire at any big company, any sufficiently large company. There's always you know some rotating set of crisis every month and you know that requires your attention. And so like you know, I don't think when suck creates facebook, he wants people to be like sharing cool photos of their lives.

He doesn't want fake news, misinformation and like, you know how much of these guys is day has to like go into like solving the nearly problem of the of the moment. And so so I think you know, they try to hire away that. But like they they are accountable for IT. And so they have to like ultimately deal with with these problems, people problems, then you have big company problems. And the last bit is like you sort of lost the magic and the connection and the fund of like building something yourself hands on, which is probably what you like to do if you started one of these companies.

Secondly, working with a small crew of people, because now the places so large only recognized people your own company and also like you lose the like um you'd in order to make a large company run, you need to have recruit certain types of people right you need generals of armies and not like gorilla warfare, like here used to have the beginning. So lot of you're a good friends from the begin of the company have moved on to do all the things if you're still there. So i've seen there was a big trade off in addition to the cool stuff you mentioned. Uh and so that's why I wouldn't say there's too many tradeoff for me to say there are having the most fun. I think they're the busiest.

I can see a stripe. You can see everybodies calender and I I just like pulled up Patrick lin calender, what this guy doing this week. And I can see, like every single event of time it's screen chair.

Well, let's go. Well, okay, someone of two, right? It's either thirty minutes, thirty minutes and thirty minutes.

And there's an executive system or two dedicated to lies. One getting this, they work. Their job. Is his calendar basically and like everybody wants his time and he's got and he wants his own time. And so thirty minutes back to back everywhere.

And then there's the other one which is super sparse, what it's sort of like, well, I can not do anything now, which is sort of fun at first, but I could also just quit if I really wanted to do nothing. So instead i'm kind of like in this like slightly unsatisfying position of like my job is not to do any of the jobs. It's a and and sort of doing nothing. I just to think about the vision and shit like that. So what do you think about that?

Is that which one to see? It's the first one. It's a thirty minute, thirty minutes, thirty minutes. Hear them.

But also like he does a lot of projects that outside of that and it's like very strictly like eight to five, nine to five like then done, there's nothing outside of that. There are no obligations. And like he is working on extra projects.

So he does, for example, uh, the fast grants during coffee where they're giving up money, which researcher super osm. This is a kind of a fun project. And before that he was working with tailored coin on doing a research project of like why scientific progress has like slow down. And he's also like learning to fly planes.

I was talking to him a couple months o about like a project we might work on together, just the two of us about helping to fund like under represented minorities and groups to like basically cool do cool things and so it's like, I don't know if he's a superhuman that just works sixteen hours a day, but he's somehow finding time to work on all these cool pet projects with like small groups of people and to fund IT because he's got the resources of an entire organization behind them. So probably you're right. It's like not the most fun job. He still has a crazy question.

had out the strike part and do all those things also, right because ah if if he wants to go to the things, sam, but some brought up a good point, which is like there's the people who no longer are chasing desire and they're happy because they are sort of at peace.

They're not just like at war with some part of their life and that's like, you know, demons, but there's like the modern day monk and you do meet some people like this who just like they're not like driven by their desire, their desire because desire is based, saying I lack something right and so your your a agreeing to be unhappy with the current thing to go desire more. And then there's like the people who I think me and said i'm tried to be more like right now, which is I don't think either of us try to be the guy with no desires. I think we try to be, well, I have healthy addictions, the things I want. I I think you're positive for me in the world and the pursuit of them will make me ultimately be Better, healthier, have more fun and a happier person aren't it's like the I got to choose an addiction, at least I chose a healthy one. And um I think those are the people like kind of second, second, second most fun.

What's the end game though? Because i'm like, I guess in a way like me and sammer like following your fit steps, like both of our company and got acquired. Both of us are still working with the acquired s like I don't have an end in mind and I don't know if you haven't end in mind saying like when when did you quit her spot and when do that?

I don't have an end in mind. Like, I think that you and I courtland are in different positions. Maybe, well, you guys don't heavily.

I don't have like a goal that I have to hit. And if I don't hit, I don't make money. So like truthfully, like my life is awesome.

Like I surely enjoy what I do. I spend most of my time doing a podcast stuff. Uh, i'm happy.

I am happy with my life. I think that I enjoy um being a hut sport employee and inevitably i'm going to quit. And when I do, I probably won't start something.

I'll probably chill for three, four, five years and then start something. But there I don't really have an n game. I do think about you a lot and IT stresses me out so trying I don't think about IT.

I'm really trying to enjoy the journey as much as possible. I'm in a position now that like I have no, once I like, like I have, i'm happy where I am. I would be happy with significantly less though.

And so i'm a little i'm quite in a satisfied. Area for now. But I like, like, I do experience envy.

Like shan people love, hate when he invest in their company. And I like fuck that's like easy body. That's a great deal. And he also really good at spotting of them. And so like I experiences like envy or experience like, oh, I want to do that too, but I did sadly not like i'm really to dedicate my life to doing that at the moment.

Shot, watch you're in game because you don't have some date. And now in the future, like sam does, what is going to quit and do something else, you're kind of just like there and ahead of the rest of your life. So what do you do when you're onnecessary have like a specific goal in mind?

Yeah, so i'm basically chasing this thing called the perfect tuesday and what I realized was having these like goals or milestones accomplishments is a false promise you make with yourself for your like a that's what I want you know, as you get there, you're like, okay, well, you move to go post and we want something more right? Like we're already I have more than I would have ever asked for ten years ago.

And now i'm like a more, more, more, more this like this disease of more. And so instead, I basically went the other way and I was like, okay, instead of thinking about what's the ten year vision for myself and what's the end game, IT was sort of like, what's the now game? What is the what is the perfect tuesday for me right now? The perfect average tuesday.

And so I did this exercise once that kind of change the way I look at things, which is I said, what's the perfect Normal day for me and and not perfect like everything goes right but like if I was just to do all the things I love in a Normal day, what are all those Normal things and they're not that hard, right? Like it's like, you know, I love to wake up without the alarm so like I love to wake up naturally rather than alarm waking up to see you got to do something, I feel groggy. So now I wake up around seven thirty um just just start going to sleep earlier because I have kid, but like I don't wake up with an alarm anymore.

And so that that already was like one thing and I these are going to sound really stupid. But like i'll just give you i'll just walk you through some of the examples like of how stupid this is, which is like, I I like, I love to shower. Like, I just love having a shower.

I'm like, I get great ideas in the shower showers, super relaxing. I just noticed, like on a Normal day, that's like one of my favorite parts of the day, is taking a great chair. And so then two things I like started to appreciate this thing that seem really moune IT seems like stupid to have a goal of taking a great shower every day.

But now I have a goal of taking a great shower every day, because I know I love showing work out. I love to work out. So I want to have a great workout everyday, and not just like generally a great workouts, like what are the most fun types of workouts? Ts, for me, I want to do those everyday.

So I have this day kind of mapped out warm like these are the things I love doing on Normal days. They don't take an outstanding event or side of vacation. It's like if my Normal day was like this, i'd be a happy camper er right now and then I saw I have like a great day.

Then I mapped out in a what's a great week meaning like what's a thing I do want to weak? I'm not to do IT everyday, but I want to do IT once a week. What's a great month? What's the thing I want to do once, twice a month that i'm not going to do everyday? And what I do wants to twice a year.

And so I wrote those out, and I, I love the same, so, so much. I had my mom do IT. I like, mom, you're get old, you gonna be having great days, are right?

Like, you know, you don't think of yourself as an ambitious person, but you should be like, you've did all the hard work, you raise the kid, you worked your whole life. Like now you should just be maxims ing joy. I should also be maxims ing joy. So this exercise helps me maxi zed joy. And so now i'm basically just chasing architecture my life, so that i'm having that perfect tuesday as often as I can, getting as close to you as I can, and same thing with the things I want to do every once a week or once a month. So I have a little bit convoluted.

but that's what I know. I love IT makes perfect sense. I think every group of people on the planet, entrepreneurs have to be the most neglectful of the present moment, like we're always obsessed to with some huge goal we've set.

We're going to build that company. We're going to launched this APP. And we kind of forget about the days. And between now and then, we just sort of to collect the present for the future, which is done because the present is what life is made out of, made of analyst string of present moments. And so if you want to have a good, enjoyable life like you can't, if you kind of exist to that entrepreneurs urge to only care .

about the yeah if you just imagine like draw draw line, that's the time of your life, all right. And like to say it's a year or ten years that line represents and then like you have this milestone at the end, this goal at the anger shooting for and you have two options. Either you say i'll be happy when I get to the end, okay, cool, or you say i'm going to have fun the whole way along the way, right?

Like it's very obvious when you draw that line, which of these diagrams is Better. The one where you have fun just in that dot at the end, or the one where you have fun under every single dot along this line, as is so obvious, is nothing new. It's nothing insightful ever is.

Heard this class have, enjoy the journey, not the destination. Like when I look at that diagram, i'm like, what the fuck? Who cares what that end destination is? I want this like this lying to be.

Do I want to? I want to haven't fun all all the way, especially if this line represents ten years of my life didn't like I got to make that that happen. And so that becomes the focus.

Well, I think the issue is like people hear this and it's almost like a cliche and that doesn't mean that it's wrong. I think a cliche is something that smart enough that I became common advice. It's about the journey, not about the destination.

But it's still hard enough that people i've been repeating this for years and people still don't understand or follow IT. You know I think people hear this from a couple of rich guides like youtube and though okay yeah easy for you to say um but in their shoes, they often see themselves as having to have this difficult, arduous journey. Y to get to the point where they have enough money, and then they will use that money to have a good journey and do something else. So like john, you are at this point where you can design this call life for yourself, in part because you have enough money that you don't have to go to one nine to five job ever again. And so when you say this, it's not like it's not easy for other people to follow that advice.

So so what i'm saying is what i'm basic saying is i'm not telling people don't chase the money. I guess what i'm telling people is it's a false choice that you either you know you suffer till you have money or you have fun but you don't have money. There are plenty of examples.

And so if there is even one example that means that is possible. There are plenty of examples of half funy have fun and make a tony money as by product. So if that's an option on the table, you're crazy for settle for anything less than that if you're a sufficiently talented person, right?

If you're ever a talented enough person, which most people are, who listening to this, if you're sufficently privilege, you have your faculties about you. Uh, that is an option on the table. T you know, have a shit on a fun and make a shit on the money both. Um then choosing one or the other is a silly option.

okay. So question for both of you, what your favorite example or story of how somebody can do that? Like if you're an andy hacker right now, you're just starting out. You'd ten nothing. How can you do something that works and that makes money, and that also allow you have final process?

Can I give one? Yeah, give me one right. I was at a friend's yesterday and he was like this about starting. He wanted to help kids start shit.

And unlike basically, I think that like if you wanted to if you are eighteen years old and you had a summer and you wanted to build a business that made a one hundred thousand dollars here, I think IT would be shockingly simple, not easy. IT would be hard physically to just dominate yp for a local service that would take you only like three to six weeks to like master. So maybe charming trees or something like that. Um I think that you could probably crush IT that way and make hundreds of thousands of dollars in a relatively straightforward, not intellection chAllenging, a low rist way. I think that most people could probably do that, right.

I think it's low risk. I don't think it's super like strategical difficult. But also is that like fun? Like how many people really enjoy going out the hot weather and like, trim trees.

I don't mind. Like I just paid a guy eighty dollars an hour to come to my house of task. Rb IT, the power wash, and he had, like a rinky drink to fifty dollar rusher, whatever.

And I asked him what his plans were for the day and he was like, alga eight of these planned. So I mean, like and is power watching that like I know. Does anyone love IT? I don't know, but it's kind of fun. Like start a job and finished and outside.

O i've got one. This is a company, another company that I found, the hackers. It's called higher performers. So the guy calls IT master class as a service for pro athletes. So look at me, this guy's time line, this first posted from november two thousand and twenty.

He says, I spoke to five pro athletes, and i've got one of them to greet a partner with me. And then he helped this guy exactly create course. It's basically like a powerpoint presentation he created and he put him on you to me.

And he helped his athlete sell the course to his own followers on social. And so now, eight months later, to get the whole process on repeat, he's hired a sales person to do all the outreach. So we only have to do the part of the likes, like actually working with the athletes and creating the course. And he's making ten thousand dollars a month, basically just doing what he loves and just making money in the process. And the idea isn't even that creator, I mean, just master class for a niche.

I did this with there's this guy in benassis er who's in the usc and he's an olympic restalrig and I was a fan of his I became friends with him on twitter. He heard talk to me about digital stuff because he didn't know anything about IT, although he was like had a huge following and I was like to start a course he like, I have no idea how was I do. I'll just call you once a week for, like four weeks, he'll get the shit done.

And he did IT and he's got a selling course. And so I totally, I didn't charge you anything. I just want you to become friends with them, but I, he would have paid, he offered to pay me money. So I I agree that that could definitely a thing you for free. I different .

people have fun doing different things. I'll just speak for myself if I was twenty one again or twenty two or whatever I like, or how do I have a buch of fun and make a bunch money at the same time? What I would do is actually very similar to these guys who hooked me and sam up with our podcast like studios that they set up for us and and you're crushing you right now so here's .

they are twenty one by the way.

they were basic like, hey, we are big friends of the show, right? Because they are our friends of the show. I would be a fan of our show if I was, you know, a kid again.

And and they based research, they are like your guys camera stuff like looks like shit your sound kind of suck sometimes like we're really good at this. Do you honor to come like help you out? Like i'll set your thing up for free.

Just, you know basically like pick a weekend next weekend, the weekend after that, when can we come and set a thing about like i'm tired to list to you guys with crap audio and crappy video and um and we're like a okay they showed us their youtube channel. There I go. there.

Here's my youtube channel. I don't have time of followers, but just look at the quality and you'll see, like, would you like to look like this and like her? yeah.

And he sent me a menu. He sent me three setups. He's like, here. You could look like this famous guy, this famous guy and this famous guy, which which set up looks best to you.

And I was like, alright, fine, come on out here and give me, give me options. see. And he's like, great will be there this sunday.

They flew out here. They hung g out. They do the hard work.

They can ask for anything, return. And I was like, do IT let me be pay. You guys like something like this is so.

So what would I get to do? I'd meet somebody who are really like, i'm a big fan of, I would have come up with something using a skill that's pretty easy to learn, really like you. They they based found some lights, they drilled into the wall, and then they like picked the right mice. They plugged IT IT into the right slot.

And whatever they they, they did this set up and then they they followed up and they were just like, you know, already I was like, do I want to all help you guys that all mental, you guys, I hope you guys, if you want another opportunity, what you want and they're I would try to figure what to do. And what they figured out was there's a lot of pog cases like us out there that had really good our long content. And what they did was they had uh from from their own content. They had stumbled into the set up where they have find talented video editors spaceless overseas in the Philippines are ever else, and they trained them on how to edit clipsed. Uh, and then basically they have a business where they just charge pod casters like us tens of thousands of dollars.

yeah. Have you seen? Have you seen us courtland?

Yeah, they look super good. I see on on twitter. Yeah, we pay thirty grand a month. They look super good. Have you put them on, uh, youtube?

Because I ve tried to find you on youtube. Are we suck at that and forget that? But I get my point, these people make a thirty ground of month just of us as one client, right? And they can make they probably can't charge every everyday much, but they can have like twenty clients doing this.

And basically, they're just doing labor arba trust talents to people in the Philippines um and they're getting to meet like yeah is all in podcast, which is like one of the famous business cast IT was like the whole first half of the thing was all about these guys. They said their names probably fifty times the fifty they said their names times get handle hundred. Bill casters keeps sending us clips and and they wear in dms with them in chemosis due jar.

Dm, in hundred. Bill caster, what? why? And is like, yeah, they do a great job and they were like, IT was like a professional information. Al, for them, they're become friends with these guys. They are hooking them up with great content. And sure enough, those guys started paying for IT and and you know, the next and the next x, these guys will be making one to two million dollars to your profit if they play their cars right as twenty two, twenty three year old just for Operating aid like, you know, sweatt shop of video editors in the Philippines.

that's what they're doing. I can't believe they pulled that off. They call me that they're onna try to do that like god, they'll work. And these about IT kept at IT they killed me.

An that's my pot guess editor did for me. He basically kept sending me clips of my show where he had edited, edited the epsom Better than I was editing them. So eventually.

what does? Do three things, right? You get good at content creation because that's you're basically practicing that craft every day. That's a really valuable skills to start compounding at Young age. Second thing, you meet a bunch cool as people are highly work they love.

They know you entrust you if you ever wanted to do a thing, if you have bigger ambitions that you can hit him up in one call. You you no longer cold, your warm and the and they know you're good. They know your hustle.

You do good work. And last thing is they're going to make at least hf million dollars, probably close to one to two million dollars of profit off this business the next couple years that you know you're millionaire. Congratulations, right? You had a bunch of fund doing IT. So that's a that's an easy example to me of something I went have done me.

I was age okay. So if we just still this into, like a playbook that people can follow, first you find something that you genuinely like, and you take the time to get really good at IT. And then you look to find somebody who's like, famous or cool, who's not really doing that good of a job with that thing, and you do IT for them for free.

And they're probably take notice because these are like hard workers who really want to get Better, whatever that is, are doing. And so though, hi are you, they pay for your thing, they're probably meant tor you and you could just repeat this playbook for anyone you like and make a tone of money in the process. Will also getting to metro heroes.

That's that's one path, one path that works there many.

That's one cool. Well, that's a good take away to in the show on sam shine. Thanks for coming out. Can you let listeners ers know where they can go to final podcast and whatever else return on?

Yeah, you can find our podcast.

If you just go, you may have to grow all the way up to the top of the charts because we're pretty high up they're now. So just go all the way up to number one, and we're just below that. So my first million in the podcast, st upstart, whatever fall the sam, he's thus samp on twitter. I'm shown bp and twitter shaper 点 com as when he's letter。