#253 – Mother’s Day, Unscrupulous Cofounders, and Why You Should Never Retire
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What's up, everybody? This is courtland from india hk's to com. And you're listening to the ni hacker's podcast. More people than ever are building cool stuff online and making a lot of money in the process.

And on this show, I sit down with these ni hackers to discuss the ideas, the opportunities and strategies they're taking advantage of so the rest of us can do the same. Today, we have a very special guest on the park, cast the one and only eva Allen. Hi mom, happy mother's day.

Mother's day.

Look into the podcast.

I am so excited to be here. I am shocked. Is this like my mother's day gift?

This is her mother's day gift.

Okay, i'm i'm gonna get another gift.

As this is, what is this is IT this specialist gift?

Any mother can ask. yeah.

Think the world's .

best mother's day in history.

Thank you so much. I can't believe you guys think that much of me. I'm kind of impressed and shocked and let me ask this question like no notice. no. Okay, mom, we're going to have you on the podcast and we're going to ask you three questions and prepare because I mean, if you really know me, you know this is not me I don't like.

But without notice, it's now a surprise. exactly. IT wasn't a surprise. There would be a worst.

I surprise you with the mother's day to surprise you again.

Yeah, but typically mother's day gifts of what mother's want. But I mean, this is great. I'm not i'm not complain and i've just a little bit shocked by IT all.

but thanks mostly. I don't don't like I don't like typical gift giving. I don't know if I have never done like the love languages and it's like physical touch, quality time, blob, blob. And one of them is gift giving, and that's like I always score the lowest whenever I like taking in this way because I don't like giving gifts and I especially don't like giving guessing. I feel like expected to. So any sort of holiday, whether it's Christmas or fathers their mother day or birthday, when it's like this is the day that you get somebody gift is like the worst day for me to give a gift. And okay.

other day, does that mean that when you are not expected to give a gift, that you do give gifts?

Now I I also just don't like, but I like, I like the sort of intangible, it's the thought that can I experience all things I got like going on trips together, doing a podcast with you. Mom, I think is a cool gift, is like my more my my style.

my vibe. So I read the five love languages, and IT was a really, really good book. And receiving gifts is one of the world, one of the love languages. And I think when IT comes, the gift give like that.

That's my love language received doesn't.

But .

typically, when you give a gift is something that you want to make sure the receiver wants, you know, you don't go out and just randomly buy anything. You go out and you know you put thought into IT. When you're pick him out a card, you want to get a card. This really appropriate, so that when the person reads a card, 对， like all this person really loves me, or this person really knows me, or this is a perfect card, that sort of thing. So you might not like giving gifts courtland, but I gar until you like .

receiving, right, receiving, inducing, both giving and receiving because I like if someone gives you a gift and they didn't put a lot of thought into IT like get to pretend to like IT and pretend to be happy and pretend it's what you wanted and like meanwhile you're making plans, how are you going to give them away because you don't really want to put this face like on your table regifting. All the time I read the books mostly to .

anyone that you are regifting.

If they're close enough to give me a gift, I think they are close enough me to tell them I don't want that something giving. In a way.

I think IT can be really, really stressed. I remember, I don't know, maybe twenty years or so ago, my girlfriend and sharing, I was sitting down making a list of, know, all of people. We needed bag gifts for Christmas time, and the list became monumental.

I want to think we eat at like over one hundred fifty gifts to buy. So what we decided to do, okay, for all the all the Young people between the ages of ten and fifteen, we're onna get them all one thing for all the men, we're going to get them all robes. For all the women, IT was just so impersonal and so stressed. And then we got to the point of, okay, we're going to go to each other houses and we're going to spend like two days wrapping all these.

Guess whose idea was this? IT sounds like like, like, this is hell. This is the seven.

That sounds like why you sea screws would build, mary, we have to give everybody a gift to need. The CEO and his secretary just really a little different homes if he likes the money, he's like VCR VCR. And if he doesn't like them, he's like, tow.

Well, let me tell you IT. So we like, a year before, we decided we were going to learn how to rate this professionally, and we went out, we took this gift wrapping course. And IT was just a matter of all.

You've got to have the perfect paper in the perfect bow and tie perfectly. That was the last year. I, A few guys remember going from getting gifts that were totally wrapped to now all your gifts come in gift bags. That was a result of the experience we had the year before having to grant over one hundred .

days outside of the gift giving and different receiving game. So i've noticed no shift at any point time. I just feel all I, all I noticed the anxiety when give giving.

It's like a homework assignment IT turns a joyce occasion of connection, and to like something where you can either do IT right or you can do IT wrong and you ve got a preparing advance. And like i'm a master procrastinator, I do things at the last minute.

You can't really give somebody good gift to the last minute because you've got to do all the stuff like rand fish and mom, he's the founder who hosts this italy thing, that chain I went to a few weeks ago. He lives in seattle. And him and his partner gerdy, and I would describe them as master gift givers like I went ever for dinner at their place, I think, like november twenty twenty after I moved here.

And then in december, I came home one day and there was a huge gift basket outside my door and I opened IT. IT was like the most thoughtful collection of like nickname, like, oh, quartz. And you mentioned that you wanted to start cooking, so we gave you, you know, like some very fancy italian exhaust and different sauces.

And you mentioned you like old fashion. We have you some like a collection of bitters and like this had, like every single thing I had said, they like found something amazing and put that in the gift basket and wrapped up an amazing presentation. And I was like a number one stunned because, like, i'd never gone such a good gift from someone who are at that time at baily even known.

And the number two, like max, anxiety, because, like, what am I going to get there return? I have absolutely no idea what they would like. I no idea what to give. I don't even know how to try to get thank you know and I just .

feels like homework to me sometimes .

and so it's a lot we should talk about your background and nobody nobody listen to the show knows you a obviously, you're a mom chaining in our twins born two minutes apart on the Younger one. And I think you are probably the reason why our entrepreneurs, because you are always an entrepreneurs. We were growing up.

I guy had friends who asked me like, how do you think you can? Why do you think you just start a business? My body is and ask me that in college.

And I was like, why do you think you can? And I had that response because i'd always going up watching you run your own businesses. And I was never weird to me like you never worked for some huge faces corporation.

You always sort of work for a very small group of work for yourself. So why do you tell us about the business you started? Why you started IT? How do you come up with the idea? Because even I don't really know the story behind. I just remember being a kid and and just knowing that you work for yourself OK.

So when you guys were born, I stayed home for quite a while because that's just the whole thought of putting you guys in day here are just petrified me. And when I did decide I have had in A, I hired a retired pediatric nurse to come into the house, because I felt like that was given you guys the best. The boy was all wrong. But at any rate, I had taken a job with a computer .

maintenance company, didn't .

what should have been.

what SHE dry us like? What did you do?

Well, let to say, one day I came home early and all three of you guys were a sleep, and that just was not good, just was not good. The three of you guys were asleep. That was the end. I think I gave like a two week notice.

but to make a lot of your pediatric nurse and .

I did and I got to the point, i'm here. I'm going to be honest with you guys. I'm type a personality.

I'm busy all the time. I like to go. I like to do things. I like to be around people, and I can remember when my girlfriend Carol, whom you met malloy in britain, y's mom came over to visit, and you guys are probably too. And I was so used to just working, I didn't wanted to leave.

I said, Carol, please don't leave, you know, go back home and get your pjs. Get your work closer tomorrow. You can spend the night.

This is great to starve to be around the doll. So I decided, let me go back into the world to work. So my background at the time was sailed and taken a job with microphone.

S, and if you guys remember, Jerry gave you your first computer, I think was a Christmas gift. You guys were probably three. I think you were three.

I thank you. The computer.

And I mean, you do even know how to use a computer, but I use a .

computer of ipad.

Yeah, I was selling computer maintenance in my job all along. Hits always been sales and marketing. Take a job with the company that my job is to find the customers, which, as you guys know, as entrepreneur s is extremely difficult.

So back then, IT was, okay, what did you get your lead? You use the yellow pages. okay. There were really no other sources um we had in in a business coron coal and artistry years dAllen for dollars looking up.

Okay, let's look at the top one hundred companies in atlanta and put together mask, rip and get on the phone and convince them you need to be buying this product or service from us. Well, to make a long story short, after a couple of years with him, I decided to go out on my own because having small kids, I ended up putting you guys in day here. But every time I turned around, somebody was sick.

And I thought, well, I can save you. If you can sail, you can sell anything. It's all about having the ability to figure out how you're going to find these customers, figuring out what did did you need, decided these customers how to get them to trust you.

So I did still feel but I still to court home point, I still feel like when people have a day job like a ninety five job that they don't like, for whatever reason they don't think, uh, well, I do to do this myself like like did you have other or the entrepreneurs that you knew that some of what this idea your head, or did you literally to say, screw.

i'm going to do myself? I decided, and i'm gonna this myself. And at the time, you know, computers were brand new and folks were selling computer part.

You know, these companies had these throw away laptops, these throw away their tops, and you, a hard drive, crass or system board died, they needed a replacement. And everything I had read was, you know, you can mark these parts up a hundred percent, two hundred percent not decided. You know what? What is the worst thing that can happen? I can try and I can feel.

And hopefully if I fail, i'll learn something that can try again. Everybody said, don't do IT. IT is not gonna work. You start a business. You're going to have to start ten different businesses in order for want to succeed.

You know, I had so many nice sayers, and I think that helped me decide, you know, i'm onna, do whatever I can do to make this work. So what if ninety five percent of all businesses failed within the first five years, five percent of them don't? Maybe one one of these businesses will succeed.

Mom, i'm really happy that you are willing to take that risk for yourself. At our experience.

IT wasn't really at your expense. That was actually at the point of not being away from you guys because in my mind, if you're an entrepreneur in yourself, employ, guess what, you got freedom. You can go to work when you want to go to work.

You can get off when you want to get off. I didn't know because I was brand new, added that I was going to be working all the time. I didn't realize.

No, I was gonna to wear every single hat there was. So I had this computer business. I outgrew the sun room, which is where I started, moved into an office and stone mount, a hired agean.

Initially I was, where did you get the money and you have to like buy these .

parts and then delivered them .

to people how actually .

went to the bank and got a small business loan of like fifteen thousand dollars, which back then was a turn of money. And in my mind is like, i've got ta be able to pay this money back the .

most one way at that time was fifteen grand. Go to a give you like how much before you by thirty?

I never found today.

I didn't run out of money because one of the things I saw were PS two system boards. And I paid like a hundred .

and fifty form.

and I sold him for none. who? No, not what.

So ever. So that's kind of how I got started. And I enjoyed the freedom.

IT was hard. I mean, studying for one hundred and twenty five ks change.

I what I did is I went online and I looked at the computer suppliers out there and PC parts exchange in texas was won. IT was just a matter of getting on the phone and I guess begging. I'm trying to start this business. All I need is this opportunity. Please give me a chance.

And when you say went online like this is this is ages, right? Yeah, nineteen .

ninety nine one. yeah. Picked up the phone. I I had a laptop at the time, desktop at the time.

Pretty epic arbitrage business to sell party for that for that much money. How much money did your business make?

Like how much was that business only made? I think my revenue was like seventy, eighty thousand dollars that is about .

but that that was not .

bad money about money.

one hundred and fifty thousand dollars today, huge.

And that's with you. And one employee .

that was with me, I wanted employ. And then I had the expenses, and I head and account that once a week came by and I gave them all the information on our revenue. My expense is check cable. I still have him today.

So how much how much profit would you say? Seventy thousand doll revenue.

Probable office .

i've into .

to say probably twenty five thousand profit because the market was really, really high. Alright, so enough for you to like.

sustain a living. But you weren't. You weren't killin IT.

And like now I wasn't killing IT. I was able to pay the exorbitant here, bill, but to me is like at at least i'm doing something worthwhile. I am fully feel like i'm contributing. I feel like i'm important and making a difference.

And you're working from home to the office and the office.

Yeah, I had a room for you guys. I did that room head on your playstation, your nintendo. You know what was ideal?

What was was the daycare that we were in a tea IT .

was la petite with miss july? I learned.

I want to only one thing from lapidary. I know I member the outside of the building. And then I remember that I was right handed .

and Jenny was left handed and .

just taught .

them to do everything. What is the right hand?

They pretty much we're trying to explain to me that right handed kids are more successful than left handed kids and that what I needed to do, what I needed to do is make sure when you rode or when you aid IT was with your writing. And and this is the most ridiculous thing ever.

So to this day I have to explain to people everything that I do naturally so all sports, but shoot basketball by throw baseball or any kind of ball I do with my left hand. But if I do any formal things, um if I am eating food with with a fork, if i'm writing, then i'm using my right hand.

Yeah but I tell you the advantage of having that start doing what I did the very first computer you guys got came from microphone s and that was really the beginning of, I guess, courtland in your interesting computers.

Yeah I remember sitting down on your computer at your office and I think you're using like doss at the time. And I all I cared about was how to play video games. And so I learned how to install games.

And I were you coming in? You had no idea what we were doing. Like, how do I get IT back to Normal? But IT back to Normal because even though you are the computer expert, you really like the computer parts experts. Like you knew what parts to shift to different people and who to call. But you weren't like a software programme.

the computer gna what? So wever, no.

So what happened? Why did you stop? Like, why not just keep growing?

Well, what I did is I want to hit I got rid of that business ahead. And this goes back to add chosen important. At the time, he was not really a partner.

SHE was a full time employee that I had hired, and SHE utilized lana credit and credit card for things that were non business. And that was pretty much the beginning of the end. You guys, we're getting to the point you're really, really busy with sports.

And I just really didn't want to continue the paris business. IT was really, really taxing. So I decided at the time, you know what found something else to do. And next to what I go to .

detail about unscary business partner using the right well.

what he decided he wanted to get to investments, and IT takes money. And I had a american express, a corporate goal card. So he decided, I think, someone that convinced her to use this credit card, we can invest, and you're gna make double the money and you'll have the money back before the bill is do so.

And SHE was my right in and me. And so SHE opened all of the bill, everything, all the bills, every single day. So, you know, he opened the bill and all of us.

what can go wrong? Investor personal stock is money with personal funds, with non persons funds.

Absolutely, absolutely. What ended up happening because he was in a writing checks paying the bills at trust to her. Um we ended up ginning a late late notice american express bill wasn't paid because you as a bill that has to be paid in for every single month. And I went to her and h know first of all, what something is wrong. Initially I called american express because I thought you you know someone had gotten my american express card, had this ironist charge on IT and you know I was given the information and then reached out to her, and it's like, oh, I am sorry, i'm going to get the money, which SHE never get the money. I ended up, you know, eating there.

How much money in the .

was about ninety thousand dollars, I think is about nineteen .

thousand dollars at turn.

SHE did he tried to pay that debt off? And I think i've probably ended up getting maybe five or six thousand dollars back of IT that .

you remember investing like to her investment panel.

I want to to think IT was diamond. I want to to think IT was diamond. I want to think IT was a diamond.

She's going to be helping you with your business .

and he is using your credit card. I mean, he was up until that up until that point, he was phenomenal. I mean, whatever needed to be done, SHE did um and he was just a great just a great asset up until that point.

So I got out of that and I ended up in my background be in sales. I took a sales job with an S A P company staffing company out of india. And so I went out, you know, found the companies here in atlantic that had S A P.

O. George pacific and some others. And once I was able to get some contracts, next thing you know, we couldn't have any people to fill the role.

So they decided to teach me how to recruit. We brought madona over from india, whom you met courtland. In fact, I think mda e help you get your first programing book when you were like in middle school, because that's what you said.

You want to a job for ant stick job, a programing book that I didn't .

read was like foreign stick. And I think you were like eleven or twelve alone now, but at any right?

So that kind point disappoint where so cotton has his PC and I have my PC. And randomly, the C, D, rm drive to starts, Randy going in and out. And then I heir courtland snicker in the background. Was this because you taught him how to code? And he instantly went .

to how to way?

I, two interest in computers. Number one, trying to go to video game would eventually turn, trying to make websites, the number to you, trying to turn out a hacky, your computer training so that I can control IT and drive you the same, whatever I wanted to, which I was super successful .

that and and you only succeeded at one of those things.

No, I made a lot of one sites and I actually computer dozens of times.

One thing I remember, I don't know if you remember this courtland, but um I think there was some sort of an update microsoft did and there was a problem and you ended up call in microsoft. Do you remember that I think you were in middle school?

No.

hopefully not. I wouldn't be surprised, but that's the beginning, I mean, quite honestly. And I went to work from all as I ended up learning how to recruit.

I fell in love with recruiting because it's just an opportunity to you find these hard to find people, these purple square ls for these roles that were nearly impossible. And IT was just the chase and just the thrill of being able to find this person that I didn't think i'd be able to find. And, you know, place a person so good.

You have been, you are certified entrepreneur, have an entrepreneur history. You ve been listened to the any hacker's podcast to you because you are very supportive. Mom, how many empires would you say you've listen to of any hacker ers? So far.

I have listened to our venture to say, at least one hundred and .

fifty OK. I want to give me test. I want to test.

Mom, want to give. I put the mom test. I want to. Mom, the mom is, said the show, I want, I want to you, it's can be easy questions, question the number one, what was your favorite?

I actually had to. And a light, no mad list that was one of the first ones I listen to. And I thought, this is so cool because I cana saw what is recruiting.

You know, here, IT is, you want to travel these different places. You go to this site and see you what resources they had. So it's a match.

You go here. I can go here because they have what I need in order to do the thing I wanted do. So I really enjoy that episode, enjoyed key values that stay. I enjoyed the cookie episode.

There are quite a few that you like all the real world businesses in the business.

A lot of them, quite honestly, I don't have a clue as to what i'm listening to. I really, really don't. I try to stick with IT.

and I try to understand some of .

what's an nf T N F T is a non fungible token. And I try to listen to your episode about bitcoin and crypto currency because I really wanted be in the know. I really, really do.

I want to stay up with what is happening in the world where people's attention is going. And I didn't have a clue. I try to take notes. I had a legal pair.

I kept, you know, everyone and go on back taking notes, and then I decided, well, maybe if I go to youtube and then pull up a youtube video like crypto or bitcoin for dummies, maybe that'll help. But after about two or three hours of that, I the decided, you know what, this is not for me. I have aged out. I don't want to know .

about crypt of currency. I cyp you know what?

A friend of mine is invited in crypto, and he convinced me, SHE convinced me to put, I think, two hundred and fifty dollars into cyp to, I can even tell you what the thing .

is called I can .

no IT wasn't a dot coin. IT wasn't adult coin. Um I can remember i'm pressed.

i'm impressed.

Oh, I know the last time I looked that I did this like three months ago was like, is that something call like a merum or something like .

that a theory?

Um so yes.

that's what I am very theah probably st money.

All I know is that went from two fifty and .

it's now seventy. And the trick, the trick .

is just monitor and OK.

Next question should be a softball. He was into the, to the forecast.

what is an M V P? M V P? What is an MVP is like a product, minimum value of a product or something.

So something mum.

product OK .

what problem does .

that solve?

IT IT solves a problem of somebody having a need for that problem.

Okay, I I want to say .

it's okay. Is that is, did I fail? Did I fail?

I was shocked you got nf, you got a favorite episode. MVP minimum viable product.

So what exactly does that mean? MVP, that means when you .

start off building something, you don't want to spend six months a year, two years building, like the human gest gigantic, you APP and then build to the world and realized somebody even wants IT to build like the minimum viable product, the smallest thing you can build to testy proposes and see if the market wants IT what they like, something super samples. If they like that, they don't like IT. You can quickly out of iterate .

on IT and improve IT. Kay, I got at fifty two.

three, two or three. If you have more questions, what is be some hard one side. What is seo stand for certain .

change and optimization.

bam.

And what is that what that is, is let's i'm looking for something on the internet, not type ban, let's say in a type an in the hackers in the first three pages are all in the hackers. So you've made IT to the top of that search.

okay. I think three or four, what do you think? China.

I think that's good. Those import. I want to hit with another crone.

I know thing about so long you .

actually talked about this, but you may not have know what you are talking about. What is the metaverse?

So the metaverse .

and IT .

is the internet of things. It's everything.

It's artificial. Ment.

that is a thing, and that is not this thing. okay.

Is IT offficers al, is artificial intelligence .

OK obvious?

Ly, that answer about the metaverse is .

probably Better than .

like every other protests, because I .

partial reality is an approach. al. Reality you don't really is, is not what's real. It's what's not real, but appears real.

It's so. So when you buy A U S, U S is about getting an oculus quest to, yes, if you, if you did that, you would enter the metaphors, right? Like that, like that, the space that those games are .

supposed Operate. Yeah, so it's like A, I don't know, an environment that computer generated and not real.

Yeah.

you have you gotten this? Have plan IT, no, I would .

actually went to best buy about a month ago after you we got coral and yana run a lilly got you know the other one one as well. They didn't have any. So i'm just waiting. I'll go back and get this .

oculus .

quest .

to how much how sixty?

Sixty three and .

me sixty four, une IT close to retiring. One is retire.

You know, I keep thinking about, I have a little bit of a fear. In fact, chaining talks me about this all the time. I probably will never retire. And when I think about return, I am such a busy body. I'll probably rest for a few months, clean out some draws, some clause, it's get bored and then figure out what IT is I want to do because to me, I don't know if you guys remember, i've just always been, you know, motivational positive thing or positive affirmations. And I used to have positive thoughts on the phone every single week on .

the answering machine, which nobody today even knows that an answering machine is no.

My favorite thought had something to do with something to look forward to. And then when I think about retirement, you my favorite thought was most of us act as though material things in wealth or the chief requirements and like to be happy, but all most of us really need is something to look forward to. And so when I think about retirement IT, I think about what is IT that i'm going to be looking forward to every single day.

You I want na be happy um I go back to what my father always used to say you if you're Green, your grown and you're right, you're rotten and that's just the process of I want to learn, I want to grow, I want to continue developing and you know, being and all that I can be. And I think about my mom, unit nine, eight and ninety seven saying, and you know, ash had start to learn something new every single day and is like, what am I gonna do? And china, and I talk about this quite often courtland.

And he had me read the books, successful aging. This is a really, really good book, really about, you should never retire, you never should retire. And I think about, i'm an entrepreneur at heart, you know, should I try to come up with a blood one hundred and one things incoming college freshman men should know when they go to college? Did I come up with, you know, some sort of program for seeing your citizens?

I was a fitness trainer. I've had an activity globe in the pass that would be fun. I don't if you guys remember the heritage club, but everybody was saying, no, we don't have enough funds.

I put together this club about forty people, and we tried to do something fun every single months. I felt about that. Should I do home staging? I love that. I've done that with friends. Should I get into the CBD business of the cannabis business I like, should do something for sure.

Because I think two of my heroes, warm buffer t charlie monger, those guys like literally in their nineties charly mongers, ninety eight, and he just gave a talk about why you shouldn't be investing in bitcoin like two weeks ago. And I think they are old and wise and motivated and happy, because they have ve never turned their brains off theyve never stopped working.

And I don't want you to do that and keep doing stuff, keep postle, keep working on stuff. I love these ideas. And I think most ideas you kind of fit your personality.

So yeah, I think so.

And I even real sons, we're not going to let you retire.

I've even thought about what can, what can I really do? Maybe I can go to ini hackers and find somebody that need somebody to be on the phone. Because my strength is, i've got great customer service skills. I love being on the phone.

Folks are telling me, go to these sites where you can you know pick a job for a month or two and make x amount an hour and do IT for a month or two when you're bored, it's over start something different. So um. I mean, i'm really thinking about tomorrow, guys.

I need an email every day from something. Somebody on any hard is complaining that somebody called email them or span email any hackers and I can't wait till the email I are. People complaining about you say, hey chen, somebody claimed to be either .

Allen like your mom. The Allen brothers is like trolling the entire website, finding everyones emails and sending them back. I like.

I will give you an any other job. I all for ren appetiser. Honestly, I think the idea of being able to work with, I remember joining stripe and patch.

Like, what do you want out of the deal? And like, you got to have my brother and he just like going to me, like I get IT. You know, because stripe was found that by two brothers, I love the idea of working with people that you love.

I love the idea that chain and I work together on andy hackers, and we meet every day. And you look forward to, I think, more than anything to here you say IT is to just ease, drop on our conversations and just sit there in the background. We're talking about nd hackers. And so after retire, we're going to give you in nd hackers job unless he started on company.

which I think IT would be so cool in coral. And I don't know if you remember when you had started in the hackers and we were going to figure out how you can make money because I like you can't have a business. I get you wanting a community and I get you you been in the situation you're in and wanting to help people in the same situation.

But how are you going to make money? And remember when we put together a, my husband and I put together the list, liver, and I put together a list of all the companies that reach out to, and I had, we had google on there. We had strike the people.

the people to advertise to you. And ripe was number one on my list, was like the number one of him. Once I get my sales pitch down once, like really good at laming advertisers, stripes is like the perfect fit and never over.

Yeah, yeah. But you did reach out.

I can have a theory that it's kind of in different people, this desire to constantly work court. When I call you manic all the time, I think I manic. I think half the people that are entrepreneurs are really manic.

And mom, I kind of think you are that way through. And so in a lot of ways, I mean, i'm a very big idea because of this idea of never retiring. I kind of think that you don't need that advice.

But I mean, not our notes. We in our society, we have like a space car doubt for that. So if anything, I think you need to give yourself permission to not retire and just find a thing that you want to do and make a little bit more about that. And obviously, we have court and I both have executive assistant roles wide open for you if you want to help us do the things we already do.

So yeah, as long as I don't have to deal with excel spread sheet and you know all of these lack and all of the stuff I don't even have a clue about, sometimes I feel like i've kind of aged out.

Naval has a sort of quipped, he does what you talked about three most important traits to look for in a start of founder in these and investors. So looking at people who are going to succeed. And the three trades are intelligence, integrity.

So mom, your business partner, agree, will not qualified to integrity. And the third one is energy. So shana, I don't know everybody's manic, but I think definitely good, sort of founders of a lot energy.

Mom, you get a lot of energy. I hope to see U. V, you know, come on the end. The cx broadcasts a guest. Next time we can view you about your new company.

awesome love will look forward to that.

All right. Well, I think that's about IT chanting, you take that away.

Another happy mother's day.

Happy mother's name on.

I tell you I have an you to have just been y've been the highlight of my life um I feel like being a mom, being a parent is the hardest st job you could ever love. Is really is the greatest job you could ever love. You guys have made me the proud of mom on the planet.

And a lot of times, you know, folks of call and say, well, you did pretty good with courtland in chaining. What advice do you have from my daughter I wanted to call you? And you know, it's just IT just brings back so many wonderful memories of, you know, things that we put in place.

You know, love and limits is so important when raising kids. And you know, being consistent with discipline is so important. More important than anything is just been a good role model in.

I hope i've been a really good role model to you guys. I know a lot of times I make you crazy. A lot of times you know you're share things with me and not tell you.

I think that just makes no sense what you just said. But you know, i'm just so happy and so fortunate that I have you guys, and we've got the communication that we have, and we've got the relationship that we have. And the two guys keep me around .

the happy mothers day.

Love you. Thank you.