Super Soul Special: India.Arie, Part 2: Refresh Your Spiritual Roots
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Last time, India Ari explained her surprising and difficult decision to retire from the music business back in 2009. Overwhelmed by the demands of her career and the constant pressure from the people around her, India felt her identity slipping away. She needed time to clear her head and figure out what path she wanted to take. Today, she's back to tell us how she made that change and started living a life that was truly her own.

Okay, we had to continue this conversation because when you left us last time talking about that tower that you've built outside of yourself and now that you're all better, I was thinking the same thing I know all of you are thinking. What was the process for getting better?

What was the process? I was thinking we didn't even get to the good part. We didn't even get to the good part. That's what I was thinking, yeah. Aren't you glad? Yes, thank you. That we're now back. Yes, thank you. You said in the years after the Grammys, where you were nominated for seven Grammys and at the end of the night had not won one of them, you had ups and downs. And by the fall of 2009, really, you were ailing, physically ailing, spiritually ailing. What happened? Physically...

I was having digestive issues, issues with my throat, and it was just showing up.

in everything, you know, because I sing and speak for a living. So I would talk and it was just kind of like hurt. It was burning inside and my throat. It felt like I couldn't, it felt like there was nothing I could do where it wasn't affecting everything. It felt like it just felt like it was sitting on top of everything. And I thought I need to just take a break. Then I thought I need to just stop doing this. Because your soul was sick, really. My soul was sick, really. Yeah. And everything else declined. Yeah. I was on the...

I did almost about 48 city tour that I didn't want to do at all. So that's every day of packing and unpacking and doing the show and packing and unpacking and doing the show for almost 50 days. Which unto itself is just exhausting. Exhausting. And I didn't want to be there. And I would be on stage. Which is almost impossible. The only reason why I did it is because I prayed about it. And in my meditation, I heard it.

do it and while you do it, watch everyone around you. Because I didn't really know what was going on. I just trusted them because I needed to. I needed to be able to trust them to navigate my life because I didn't feel I could. And I saw a lot that I didn't know. That's why I ended up letting go of a lot of my team. And that's why I realized that I had to change my life. And so it was really the best thing I ever had ever done to get to that rock bottom. You allowed yourself to awaken in the process. Yes.

I emailed you from the tour bus once and I said, "This is hard. Basically, this is hard. I don't know what I'm doing here and it's insulting." Because that's really what happened. Everything that I was scared of happening, losing money, being embarrassed on stage, being sick on stage, having moments where I felt like it wasn't my favorite thing anymore, like my passion was gone.

Those were all the things I was trying to avoid all those years, and they all happened in that month. I felt like my tank was empty. I couldn't go any further. I couldn't.

But I'm aware now that people still keep going when their tank is empty. Yeah, but it's hard to keep going. And those of you who are mothers watching recognize this. It is hard, hard, hard. It now becomes a struggle when your tank is empty, but you're expected to give from the tank to other people. And that's when I was just... It went from being tired all the time to not being able to not be tired. I was just...

Limp, literally limp. Literally, literally exhausted. Because you had given all your power away. And that was the thing. I was so mad at people because they were taking my power and I realized I just gave it away. You wrote me a letter. Was that when you wrote me a letter? And I did a column and I based upon that letter that you... Yes, which was around my birthday. And I said, what a wonderful birthday present.

In the letter, India described losing her way in the music industry, her quest for success clouding the vision she had for herself and her music. Her struggle to reclaim her power by living more authentically became the inspiration for my What I Know For Sure column in O Magazine. That was back in 2010. I was just in those beginning stages of gaining it back. And the more I would take my power back, the more my health would improve.

begin to stabilize. I'm still balancing things out, but I feel good every day. Okay, so we want to know how you got from exhaustion, literally giving all your power away, hard to get up, hard to be on stage, thinking that you're going to leave the industry and you're just going to sing for family and friends, pull out your guitar whenever, to literally restoring your emotional, spiritual strength.

and therefore mental health, how that actually happened. How did you transform yourself? One of the things I prayed about when you invited me to be here was that I would be able to just tell the truth as clear as I could.

And it's going to take me a second to work out the words for what I want to say because I still have that thing in me that wants to give the right answer and be diplomatic and be on TV and all the stuff you're supposed to be doing. There's always that other part where it's just, what's true? I'm happy because this is really the first time I'm going to be able to say something like this on television, which is why I love this show. I, it really, for me, the foundation of my life is my spiritual life.

And so what I do and what I did to begin to find the answers of what I needed to do to restore my life was pray and meditate. I said the prayer to God to let me be 100% guided by my soul.

And when I said it, it scared me because I knew that if I asked for it, I would get it. Yeah. And I know how I know now how that feels because there's sometimes I'm like, well, I can't not do it. When I say that, I know that. So your prayer was to be 100% guided. Let me hear your voice. Let me hear your voice. And then let me have the courage to do what you're telling me. Yeah. And please allow me to be 100% guided by my soul, not my thoughts.

My personality, my mom, my fears, like what my soul wants me. So this is the question. How were you able to discern? Because discernment is in it unto itself a gift. How were you able to discern the voice of your soul, which is the same as the voice of God, the voice of divine guidance from your chitter chatter, talky talk, external voice?

internal self. When I said I really started praying with that purpose of saying what I really wanted to say in my prayer. Declare it. Declaring it. Yeah. That's one of the things I asked for. Give me the discernment to know. To know your voice. To know your voice from my own. Yeah. But, but,

there's also that part of trust when you know that you pray for something and you trust that it happens now it's just kind of like a muscle i just know the difference i don't know how to explain i just know the difference well you can only do it when you get quiet enough to do it because as i've said many times i know this because i've done it many times made the mistake of letting the voices of the world including my own

drown out the voice of God. And it is a muscle. I think that's so powerful what you're saying because just like you get, you can go from lifting two pounds easily to five pounds to 10 pounds,

developing the discernment to hear the voice of God, to hear the divine, is developing a spiritual muscle. And you can't do it unless you practice it. And most people only practice it when they get in real trouble and it's like, help! And then can you lift up that 10 pounds if you haven't lifted the 10? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the deal. That's the deal. If your small business is booming, you might say, but you should say, I'm like a good neighbor. State Farm is there. And we'll help your growing business.

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Worthiness. You have written songs about it, you sing about it, you have sung about it for years, about loving myself, loving myself, loving myself. And we talked about how

In many cases that was affirmation for you because something inside you knew that you were supposed to, but you were reaching for it and have now evolved to that space. The difference between wanting to love yourself and truly loving yourself. What does that feel like? I want to tell you what my turning point was. The top of 2012 came and I started having other health issues that were showing up on my skin.

And it was, it started out just like a little bit of rashiness here and there. And March of 2012, it was every inch of my face was covered in rashes, rashes, big rashes, and then bumps all over. It was almost like I aged, you know, like how we'd see a visual. It wasn't wrinkles like that, but like that visual aging. It was like I aged 50 years. One day I woke up and it was broken out and then it just kept breaking out. And I was still moving forward with the album and trying to finish it and forcing it. I was forcing it.

Yeah. Were you going to skin doctors? Were people trying to tell you? I was kind of going to skin doctors, and then the stuff would hurt worse than it helped, and then it would make the stuff go away, but it would all come back in two weeks. And I was trying everything, and then I got allergy tested, and I realized that I had... All your stuff is coming out of your skin. All my stuff is coming out of my skin. I mean, I realize now that people go through much worse things, and I know that, and I knew it at the time, but I thought maybe I could have a serious illness. Then I flew to my favorite place in the world, which is Hawaii.

And I was there for two or three weeks or whatever. And I ended up going to this, someone wanted to take me to see a volcano. And I was standing there and we're looking at the volcano. And it was, you know, Hawaii is magnificently beautiful. So I was seeing the water and the volcano and watching the smoke and everything come out and I was taking it all in. And what I understood in that moment was what I had read about and what I understood.

understood intellectually, but that all things are interconnected. And then it was kind of like, yes, everything is interconnected and you too. And everything is always in divine order. And even your skin and even the stuff you're going through, I realize this sounds really simple, but it was like, everything's always going to be okay. That's how it felt. Mm-hmm.

And so I felt the volcano and I felt this thing. But we got down to our car and then down to like a little bathroom stop. And I went and I looked in the mirror and my skin was the worst. It was the worst it had ever been. And I started to get mad. I was like, after all this that I've been trying and I barely even eat anything that I like to eat. And, you know, and then I felt this calm. It was like a, I wish I had better words. I felt the sense of calm.

It was in that moment that I understood that there was what I felt like I was planted with a seed of trust. Because I mean, I believe in God and I trust that life is going to unfold. But it was different. It was like this place of trust that nothing can harm or shake you.

And I didn't have it before because, you know, things would move me to the point that I would be sad about something and my face would break out. That's so interesting because I thought you were going to say, I came down from the mountain and I went and I looked in the mirror and my skin was clear. No. No. It was the worst it had ever been. It was the worst it had ever been. But I didn't react emotionally. It was just like, and I remember catching myself and being like, I feel...

I mean, I don't want it, but it's not making me feel like, why God? Like I want to shout, you know, God. It just made me feel like, okay. So you accepted it? I accepted it. You accepted it and surrendered to that. And I accepted and surrendered. But when I went home that same day, I got off the plane and it was clear. Hallelujah. And I just, I feel like that surrender happened.

- The reason I said that, the reason I asked the question about acceptance and surrender is because that's one of the biggest lessons I've ever learned in life.

The moment you say, whatever, thy will, as you see it, God, I'm with you. I'll do thy will be done, not my will. That's the moment things move. Things move. Things move. That's the moment things move. You unblock it. You unblock. That was the biggest lesson I learned. Yeah. Isn't that amazing? Because you think that you're doing the right thing by trying to. Yeah. But you're doing the right thing. It's pushing against it, pushing against it, pushing against it. It's pushing against it. Yeah. Yeah.

Wow. That album that I worked on, that I funded and I spent three years on and I was putting everything into from that, from that experience on the mountain and having that new, that new understanding. I let it go. I shelved it and it,

Today, like I'm finishing my new album, Songversation. New songs, new everything. It's not like I had old songs and I said, let's put these together. It was new songs, writing songs and recording them. So you let that go. I let it go. And cleared the way for something else to come through. And cleared the way, but did it in six months. Wow. Let's talk about then how you started to define success for yourself. Clarity of intention.

I know what success is in the music industry. I know what it is. I know about the billboard charts and how selling is many, and I get all that. That was never my definition of success, and so I decided to write down my definition of success, which is clarity of my intention and reaching that intention while being true to myself and with joy. What's the point in having all of it if you don't feel good? What's the point? But I learned that I know what it's like to have success.

millions of dollars and have an ulcer and you can't get out of bed and you can't drink water. You know, it's just like, what good is that? One of the things I love that you shared with the producers and also talked about on your blogs is that, and this is what so many women don't get, so hopefully today you'll hear it differently, is that you can stop at any time. I still, you know, when I knew I was coming here, I tried to find where I read that and I still don't know. Mm-hmm.

But there was somewhere in that summer I was on that long tour that I didn't want to be on. I read it somewhere and it just struck me. You can stop. I could just say, no, stop. Don't call me anymore. Like whoever I didn't want to. I could just say no. Of course, like again, I knew it intellectually, but it didn't live in me.

It didn't live in me. But now I know with the album that's not coming out or could, but the one I shelved. The one you let go. It was, again, I can just say stop. And in doing so, understanding that you really are worthy, again, that word. Worthy of asking for whatever you want. To ask for exactly what you want. And if you're not getting that, to be able to say, this isn't what I... Stop. Stop. Stop.

Stop. Yeah. Being in the world and not of it. That was another one of your lessons. You know, you hear that in church. Yes. I never really knew. How do you do that? I never knew what that meant. After that experience at the volcano, I understood what it meant to me.

have things and life goes on and there's always going to be a challenge but it doesn't have to shake you to your core every time something happens like for me I call it the way I understand it now is a sacred space of peace that lives inside of you there's still you know stuff that happens and it hurts sometimes even with what

What I understand now is like, that's human and I'm not attached to things being easy or to not having issues because it's not what we're here for. We're here to go through things and, you know, that's what we're here for. The biggest lesson is I'm not attached to things, period. I can't say I'm not attached to anything, of course, but a lot of the things I was attached to, I'm just not anymore. But, you know, I had to go through all this length to get there. But, yeah.

I guess you, yeah, I guess that does make sense what you just said. Like in general, not being attached where it can just pull you along. If you knew what I was saying, for it to be the worst it had ever been, and that's saying a lot for me to look in the mirror and not just be shaken. That to me is what it means to be in the world, but not of it. Like to just know that you always have that sacred space of peace. I know the real, that who we really are is our soul and life.

our souls coming into earth to have this human experience that we have our guides, our family, our folks in spirit. And what I feel like was happening at Volcano was I was being spoken to by the energies that... Your spirit guides. My spirit guides. And those, you know how Native Americans say there's more things unseen and unknown than seen and known? Yeah. Them were talking to me.

And they do when I write music and when I ask for clarity and I hear that, they are always talking. Now, this is so interesting. You know this, too. It's wonderful to have those mountaintop experiences. It's wonderful to have these meditative experiences. It's wonderful to, you know, to know inside yourself this. It's hard to stay on course all the time. It's hard to because sometimes the world pulls you in and, you know,

You lose your sense of your connectedness, your alignment. So how do you do that? How do you practice staying on course? Well, I want to say I don't know. Because since my-- I've been calling it a transformation. I'm still trying to figure out the best word. But I spent a lot of time--

isolated just with my close inner circle because I was going through so much healing and physical stuff too. And so I was going through so much healing. I just wanted to be with the people that I trusted. And so now that I'm back out in the world and I'm seeing people again and with that stronger sense of perception and clarity about things and about people, I'm taking it back a lot. Like,

Oh. And that's what the cocoa butter thing was for me, was illuminating. I was like, we're here? The cocoa butter meaning the light skin. Right, the light skin, dark skin. Dark skin thing. And the lack of compassion. Because say I did bleach my skin. Yeah. Why would you be so mean to me about it? Yeah. But you didn't bleach your skin, and they still were mean to you about it. Yeah. New job? Growing family? Need a change of scenery? When life gives you a reason to move, start with Opendoor. Request a cash offer in minutes.

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With the release of the publicity photo for her single "Cocoa Butter," India Arie faced an unexpected controversy. Fans accused the singer of lightening her skin. They called her a hypocrite and much, much worse. It was a moment in the public eye that truly put her spirit to the test.

That test, I got that test of that space of peace. When I said it didn't touch me, it didn't make me feel like undone. I would have went to bed for three weeks. Before? Oh, yeah. Before this transformation? Oh, my goodness. Yes. That's the thing about the universe. God, man, I have to say, God, when you think you've got it, when you think you're there, you always get a test.

you always get a test. And the truth is, if you really are there, you pass the test and it passes. - I was listening to Joseph Campbell this last week and he said, "You're always, you know, you go on this hero's journey and things are happening in your life and you come out of the woods with the Holy Grail and then something else happens and you're in that state of becoming again." - Yes. And the real test is to know exactly what you said earlier. You're always, always going to be all right.

And I know that now. - You're always, no matter what it is you're going through, and no matter how you feel that no other person has ever felt that, you're always, always going to be all right. Let me ask you this. How has, did the mountaintop transformative experience change the way you allowed compassion for yourself and for other people? - Oh!

I just had an epiphany. I love it. I love an aha right in the middle of a Sunday morning. I just had an aha. Okay, great.

When I emailed you and I asked how you would explain, how you would help me explain a great spiritual shift to people who don't possibly, probably don't understand that. Yeah. What I was afraid of was being judged. Of course. But I realize now, it's funny now to think that I just didn't see it. I realize now that I have always been so judgmental. And to me, it's just like an opinion. But I realize now

I realize I go really hard with it. And I'm like, they don't need to be. And I'm really judgmental, especially about things that I feel make my life harder. Yeah. Like for me as doing what I do as a musician and, and working so hard to,

Let it to make this to make my spiritual work be commercially viable, working so hard for that. When I see someone who's just like who I feel is making music and they're just being, you know, commercial, commercial and kind of like selling themselves for it and being naked or whatever the things I don't like. I judge it so hard. I judge it so hard. And that's what I got. I got judged like I was one of those people that I judge so hard. They thought I was bleaching my skin to be one of those people that I judged so

So hard. Wow. I didn't even realize that. Wow. I don't even know what you asked me now. It was just, that took me. I was asking you about how this allowed you to have more compassion for yourself. And in the asking of that question, the thinking about the answer, you realized that the judgment that other people were placing on you is a result of the judgment that you had placed on other people. I strongly believe that is the truth. Wow.

That makes my eyes water. That's deep, man. I mean, that's deep, girl. That is deep. Oh, boy, that's good. Yeah, it is. I had such a hard time with just all this stuff. There's always lots more life than you can tell anybody in the conversation. And because I went through so many of those hard things, now I look at people and I think, you never know what they're going through. You never know. Yeah. You never know. This is going to be like my fifth time saying this. I realize this is going to sound kind of crazy. But again, why I love Super Soul Sunday is

I, what I learned after my experience at Volcano, it made everything before and after it makes sense. So for me, and we talked about this a moment ago, that all physical ailments starting in your spiritual and emotional body. What I realize now is what was happening with my skin was my body is shifting the same way that my soul was shifting.

And I realize now just from through prayer and meditation and asking to be shown what all this is about. I realize now that my body, too, was shifting as much as my soul. And because it's all connected. Yes. Shifting, shifting, erupting, shifting as the volcano detoxing. Yeah. As the volcano. What I know.

is what people are seeing in that picture. It's not just the physical presence, but the new, illuminated, spiritual presence. There's more of you. More of me. In your skin. More of me, because I'm more of me. Yeah. There's more of me in my songwriting. There's more of me in my dancing. There's more of me in me. And it's...

There's that part of photographs that capture a person's essence. And I feel like that's what people are seeing. That's right. And there are people who are like you. That's what I love about this platform of Super Soul Sunday. It's where like-minded people gather to have the conversations that really matter. That rhymed. Did it? It did. Where like-minded people gather to have the conversations that really matter. That really matter. What is your definition of God?

The totality of all that is, including me, including you. What is the soul? The real you. You do not have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body. What does prayer mean to you? It means that there is always a place that I can go to where I know I will be heard. Do you have a personal prayer? To fulfill my life's missions and to make music

An art that elevates and liberates consciousness. Where do you feel most at home or at peace? Inside of my house and in Hawaii by the water, in the mountains, in the waterfalls. What do you do to get calm? You know how I've heard you talk to a lot of people and they say, it's hard for me to find time to meditate. It's hard for me to find time to get still, to be quiet. I don't have trouble sitting still or being quiet or meditating and writing for hours

hours on end. I can just, if I have a nice pen and like a nice weighted pen in my journal, I can just think and write and pray and meditate for hours. If I just sit in a chair and breathe and ask for calm, it always comes. Wow. If you could ask God one question, what would it be? Do you have any questions for God?

Oh my gosh, so many. If I could ask God one question, that's a lot of pressure. If I could ask God one question, I guess it's the question I always ask, which is, show me what to do that your will is done through me. But if I had another one, I would say, where's my husband? Really, I'm like, where is he? Really, really, I think I would, truthfully. What's the best piece of advice you ever got? I had a chance to have a conversation with Dr. Angelo. Mm-hmm.

And we talked about a lot of stuff. As you know, she just teaches with intention. She just was talking and teaching. And at the end of our conversation, I said, if there's one thing that you just want me to know, what would it be? And she paused. She looked for a second. And she said, I have risked everything to just tell the truth. India, just tell the truth. Mm-hmm.

That's when it started to really resonate. Like it's not telling the truth. It's not just what you say. It's how you, it's how you show up. It's how you show up. It's how you, it's making honest decisions. It's being your truth, being your truth. Finish this sentence. The world needs, the world needs to know that healing the world starts with you. I believe in, I believe in God.

and in spirit, and I believe they're always guiding me. And I believe that if I tune in, that the truth is there. Love is the most powerful energy in the universe. Music is love. Music is love. The thing that matters most to me. The thing that matters most to me is fulfilling my mission on Earth matters most.

to the point that I'd keep asking to show me what to do because I just want to do what I was put here to do. It scares me to think, oh, wow, I guess I just found something out about myself. It still scares me to think that I would let anything take me off my destiny. I remember having this thought really early, though, like being 18 and 19 and thinking, I want to fulfill my destiny, you know, not knowing how or what it was or anything, but

Knowing that I had one. Because what do you think happens if you don't fulfill it? Do you think you come back? I mean, yeah. I think you come back and keep trying. But I think in this lifetime, there's something I'm meant to do in this lifetime. Yeah. I believe we'll keep coming back, getting chances to continue to grow for the evolution of our soul. I mean, we'll keep coming back for the evolution of our soul. I also believe that there are things that we're meant to do in this lifetime. But I also feel like because I'm so...

Driven to complete my missions in this lifetime that I think there's a reason for that I think this is how I'm built this time around for some reason I want to get it done This time and right not that I feel like I won't come back. I don't know I don't presume to know or anything like that, but there's a drive that's there and it's for some reason I don't think everybody has to have that I gotta get I don't think everybody has to have that but I do so do I I get you Thank you. Thank you

I'm Oprah Winfrey, and you've been listening to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast. You can follow Super Soul on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. If you haven't yet, go to Apple Podcasts and subscribe, rate, and review this podcast. Join me next week for another Super Soul Conversation. Thank you for listening. If your small business is booming and ready to expand, you might say something like, B-b-b-b-boo-yah!

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