Holiday Gifts: Giving and Receiving
01:01:06 Share

Merry Christmas, Teresa. I sold my podcast to get you this episode. But I sold my episode to get you this podcast. Oh man, awkward, huh? It's Schmanners! 🎵

Hello, Internet. I'm your husband host, Travis McElroy. And I'm your wife host, Teresa McElroy. And you're listening to Schmanners. It's extraordinary etiquette for ordinary occasions. Nailed it. God, it's a loopy day here in the McElroy. I don't know why. Well, because I think...

Well, it's beginning to look a lot like Christmas. That's also true. But there's also just like built up, like, you know, uh, how something like calcifies there's like built up sleep deprivation a little bit, a little bit. I did also just wake up from a nap that also happened. And I've had about 18,000 cups of coffee this month. He's gonna be a good one. Um, so this is continuing another, uh, in our, our holiday series. Um,

Last week we talked about holiday parties. This week we're talking about gift giving and receiving. I think next week we're going to put out our live episode where we talked about Victorian Christmas. Sweet. Sweet.

And then we'll probably take a break. By which I mean like a week. We're not going to skip like a bunch. But probably between Christmas and New Year's, whatever that day would be, there probably won't be a new episode. Because we'll be traveling to Huntington and then to Teresa's family's home. And, you know, just traveling a bunch. And we probably won't have any free time until after the new year. But so, as I said, this week...

All about gift giving. That's right. And I know that gift giving is not like this winter holiday season specific. You give presents, you know, on birthdays and anniversaries and that kind of thing, weddings. Yeah, but I do think that the anxiety surrounding gift giving really comes to a head this time of year. Yeah, I think that this is the time of year where most it becomes like a...

uh magnified uh multiplied it's not just like oh it's my friend's birthday it's like okay well now time to get presents for 12 people um let's start off before we get into like the big history big discussions i want to have a little bit of like a personal reflection on it because theresa and i are very different in this in the mackroy household gift giving is like a test you give yourself

to see how well you know the person. Like we grew up having lists and stuff, but once we kind of all hit like adult age, it became this like,

I have to get something that reflects like how well I know you and our relationship. And like, so the idea of like giving a gift card, for example, that's not really a thing macaroids do because that's, that to us doesn't reflect that. That doesn't prove how well I know you, you know what I mean? So I will often agonize and Teresa can attest to this, like whether or not I've nailed it yet, whether I found the present that's like, yep, this is it. You knew me, you did it. You did great. Yeah.

But then there does reach a certain point where Travis goes, I don't know, eight presents. Yeah. That must do it. Well, that's the other thing. I was talking about this yesterday. One of like. The combination of all of these eight presents makes it so that I know you. Somewhere in there. Maybe one of this is it. I'm winning with all of them.

these. But it wasn't too long ago. I mean that I, I couldn't afford to get anybody anything. I was telling you there was one Christmas right after I moved to Cincinnati where the only way I was able to buy my family presents was I opened a credit card at Macy's and spent and like for $300 I think was the credit limit. And then I used that to buy presents for people at Macy's. You know what I mean? So like now that

I am a little bit more financially stable. It's a lot harder not to just go, all the presents. They deserve them all. I love them. I shall give them material goods. Well, and I think that that does actually work for your family because...

you and your brothers are the sort where if you say, well, I need and I want this, I'm just going to get it. Because with the age of the internet, you can find anything on Amazon and just have it shipped to your house. Especially if you had a glass of wine or two and maybe you're not thinking about it too hard and you just click buy it now. So things that you need, you already have. So finding a gift for someone that they wouldn't have thought of for themselves is

is a great fit for your family. But for my family, we often agonize and price over and really think about the things that we, you know,

want at the time and we may not get them. So my list was always things that I wanted, but I had put off getting for myself. Maybe if it was a little more expensive or if it wasn't something I absolutely needed, but I really wanted, I would put that on my list and that would be the things that I got for Christmas because it always seemed easier and

more practical for our family to get the things for people that they really wanted or get them a gift card to the place that they really like so they can go and get exactly what they want. Do you know who's gift giving style? I dig it's your dad.

Yeah. Teresa's dad does this thing where all year long, if he sees a thing, if he sees a thing that Teresa's mom would like, he buys it and then stores it away. And he doesn't keep track of how many he's gotten. He has no idea. And so then like, you know, Chris's time rolls around and he pulls all it out. So without fail, Teresa's mom has like 50,

three times the amount of presents as everybody else. 'Cause he is just like, if he sees something in February, he thinks she would like, he buys it and puts it in a closet. And it's just such an interesting way to do it at this like spread out over there, which I love for many reasons. But one of them is also the idea of like, especially now, as you said, the age of the internet, I think in our generation, we've seen this very, like a strong shift

From, ooh, got to go bundle myself up and hit the mall and go search Walmart and hit the local stores to like, well, let's see what's on Amazon and Etsy and eBay and whatever, Redbubble, and where can I get this stuff from? And so it is both...

Interesting because it's both a lot more convenient to have it all brought to you. But I would say that there is something about like walking through a store where you see a thing that you never would have thought of in a million years. But because it's right next to the thing you were thinking of, it's like, oh, yeah. Oh, Steve would love this. You know what I mean? And it's a lot harder to do that on Amazon.

Right. I do have to say, though, the person who doesn't seem to really enjoy my dad's gift-giving style is my mother. Well, you say that, but I think it's just because she's so overwhelmed with emotion. I would say that three out of four years she cries. But I think it's a good cry. I think she's crying because she's like, oh, Mike, oh, I wasn't expecting that. Ah.

But by now you think she must expect it, right? I don't know. Yeah, I think a little bit. But still, it's just every year like, oh, yeah, still great. My family's going to listen to this and be embarrassed. No, they're wonderful. Hey, I said I loved it. I think it's a great style. So, yeah, I think that it's interesting because I think we are in a new time, a new timeframe of gift giving.

In a way that we didn't used to be. This idea of. New frontier. Yeah. It really is. Because like. This idea. And you know. That's not to say. I love retail stores. I worked retail for many years. Highly recommend. I still go shopping. I just went yesterday. And went and bought stuff. I think that there is something about. Like the going. Putting your hands on. Items. Picking stuff up. Looking around. That just can't be beat. But the convenience. Especially with a new baby. Yeah. Like the idea of us going out. And shopping for everybody on our list. Yeah.

And having to bundle her up and take her everywhere is just, it's not feasible. Do you know what doesn't happen as much as it really should? What's that? It's food shopping for us. Yeah. Thank you, Blue Apron. Thank you, Blue Apron. So I'd like to talk about some very famous gifts. Okay. Do it. Okay. Don't wait for me. For my history portion, my dear. Oh, I see. Oh, yes. We're recording a podcast, not just talking about. Oh, yes. Yeah. Oh, I see now.

Well, I think that number one on my list when I thought about famous gifts was the Statue of Liberty. Mm-hmm. There's a whole... Thank you, Drunk History, for teaching me the whole weird history of that gift. But the short history of that gift is that there was...

The gift is from France. I think we all know this. And it was originally called the New Colossus. Oh, way cooler. But I think it doesn't fit what she became. But the New Colossus is a pretty awesome name. Yeah. And although it was dedicated to the United States in 1886, the idea was actually started in 1865 when the French politician Edouard-René Ruffable...

Now, hold on. No, no, no. Let me try that again. You can do it. When the French politician Edouard René Lefebvre de Labouillet. I love it. I'm leaving in your first attempt at it, though, just so you know. Oh, man. Slap happy here. Decided France wanted to do something for the United States after the bloody, bloody Civil War.

So they built it over there and they shipped it over here and they built it in the harbor. And there was a whole thing too, just if you want to look further into this, where America at first was like, we don't want it. Yeah, I think that's why it took so long. Yeah, because there was a thing like, well, we just need you to build the pedestal. And America was like,

No. But we're trying to give you the new closets. We don't want it. Wait, we do want it? Okay. Okay. It turns out we do want it. Check out that drunk history episode. This is the equivalent of now when someone's like, I want to get you a Christmas gift. And you're like, I don't want to exchange presents.

If you're in the mood and you don't mind foul language, check out that Drunk History episode. And every Drunk History episode. All right. I love it very much. I have lots of stuff to get through. Let's focus up, Travis. Come on. Eyes on the prize. All right. So another very famous gift to our government was in 1945, um,

there was an organization called the Young Pioneer Organization in the Soviet Union. I think it was kind of like Boy Scouts, I think. Mm-hmm.

It presented the U.S. Ambassador Avril Harriman with a great seal. So, you know, we talked about the seal of the United States. No, we talked about the seal. It's an important part. It's on like official documents and stuff. It was made out of hand carved wood and they did it as kind of a gesture of friendship. You know, it was 1945. Wait, I know this. Yeah, we heard about this.

This might have been Mysteries of the Museum. We get all of our history from Sawbones, Drunk History, and Mysteries of the Museum. And although it was meant as something for friendship, it was not really very friendly. It had a secret. Because disguised inside this seal was a bug, a listening device invented by Leon Theremin.

And it was so hard to detect because at the time it was like the thinnest bug that had ever been made. And it gave off no signal and it had no power supply. So it was just like they had no idea. And it actually went undetected until 1952, which is three ambassadors later. Wow. Yeah. Crazy.

So it was like a Trojan horse. It was like a Trojan horse gift, right? Like this, it was almost literally like they hid a thing in a wooden thing. They Trojan horse. That's real good. Well, but legions of men didn't jump out. Well, no. Okay. And it wasn't literally the Trojan horse trees that, yeah. So you win this round. I mean, I can talk about the Trojan horse. Well, I think that that one's a pretty well known one. All right. Um, the next one I'd like to talk about, uh, took place also around the civil war to go back to the statue of Liberty.

So General William T. Sherman had been working his troops to secure ports from the Confederate Army during the Civil War. So he was down there doing his thing. And he captured Atlanta in 1864. But after that, Sherman and some of his men disappeared for about six weeks. That's when they were capturing Atlantis. Yeah.

Well, I mean, maybe. They don't really know exactly what was happening because there was no communication between them and the White House. And President Lincoln thought that they were probably dead. But then, on December 22nd, Sherman sent Lincoln a telegraph with a message, I beg to present you, as a Christmas gift, the city of Savannah.

with 150 heavy guns and plenty of ammunition and also about 25,000 bales of cotton.

Cool. So that's what they were doing. They were secretly taking Savannah to give it as a gift to Abraham Lincoln. Exactly. It's pretty good. They had just taken Atlanta and they were like, hey, let's keep this a good thing going, I guess. So another really famous gift and probably one of the most sought after in the world at this point is the gift of Faberge eggs. I've heard of it. It always makes me think of one of my favorite Simpsons jokes.

where Bleeding Gums Murphy, the saxophone player, is telling his life story, and he talks about a time in his life when he was addicted to Fabergé eggs. Oh, man. And there's just a part where he's in a jewelry store trying to buy one. He's like, give me another Fabergé egg, please. And the owner's like, I think you've had enough. And he's like, I'll tell you what I've had enough. It's so funny to me. It really stuck with me. Fabergé eggs are one of the most highly coveted collectible items in,

And there are so many dupes and fakes. And there are some eggs that appear to look Fabergé until you actually weigh them next to a real Fabergé egg, and that's when you can tell. But just looking at it, they look so amazing, and they sell for, I don't know, astronomical amounts of money.

Tens of 20s of dollars. The first imperial Fabergé egg was created for Tsar Alexander III, and he wanted to give his wife an extra special Easter egg in 1885. But it was so well received and so just enamored by everyone that the Tsar decided to do it every year from then on.

And when he died, his son continued the tradition and commissioned pricey trinkets for his mother and his wife. So they started getting these made for, you know, not just Tsar Alexander III's wife, but for a lot of ladies in the family. So I want to talk about a gift exchange thing because we touched on it in the intro.

And I think that it has a message to it that is going to echo through all of the questions that we answer in the second half of the show. And that's the gift of the match. I think that it's a pretty famous holiday story as far as like gift giving goes. But here's a little synopsis.

The book was written in 1906, and it takes place of a couple, Jim and Della Dillingham Young, are a young couple in love, but they don't have hardly any money, and they can barely afford their apartment. So for Christmas, Della buys Jim a chain for his prized pocket watch given to him by his father, but she pays for it by cutting off her beautiful long hair and selling it to a wig maker.

At the same time, unbeknownst to her, Jim sells his pocket watch to buy her a beautiful set of, I think that they are tortoise combs, so that she can comb her long hair. Well, I mean, when they present each other the gifts on Christmas Day, they figure out that

The real gift that they gave each other instead of the chain and the combs was that this unselfish love that they share for each other. And that was written by William Porter.

Okay, let me also give my two cents here. Do you know who really loses out here? Who? Jim. Because Della can regrow her hair. Jim cannot regrow a pocket watch. That pocket watch is just gone. But I don't think that's the point of the story. That's not the point. Okay, you're right. The point here, and this is really what it comes down to, and this is...

I would like to go on a quick rant here or more of like a Travis McElroy oratory. Oh boy, I'm leaning back. And that is oftentimes people use the phrase, it's the thought that counts. And I think they use that wrong. I think too often people mistake that to mean like, I got you this gift.

like it's it's so you can brush your hair uh and then it's like well i don't have hair oh it's the thought that counts but that's not what it means what it means is i thought of you it meant something to me to get something for you and that's what counts the thought that you thought of me that you thought enough about me to get me a present is what counts you know what i mean

So it's not about like, oh, well, this is a crappy gift, but it's the thought that counts. It's like, oh, you thought of me and that's what counts. You know what I mean? And that's what that's what I

I think the gift of the Magi is trying to teach us. It's like, okay, but that they cared. I'm actually getting choked up talking about this story. That they cared enough about each other. It's a very romantic and a little sad story. It is. And the fact that they cared enough about each other to go to these lengths for each other is what counts. Not the fact that they can't use the presents. You know what I mean? And these were, you know, prized possessions. You know, the hair is the crowning glory and everything.

You mentioned that the pocket watch was something irreplaceable. Yeah.

So that's just a little bit about that. And you know what? I think that in this circumstance, I think we could go on and on just having a general conversation about presence. But I think it will actually be more beneficial to do that as we answer questions. Sure. Because I think that will give us ideas. So we're going to talk more about presence and answer questions. But first, here's a word from another Max Fun Show.

All right, before we get into the, you know, the promo spots from other shows, we want to let you know we have a Jumbotron this week. Now, Jumbotrons are a thing that Maximum Fun does where you can buy a message either to like, you know, say something personal to somebody, wish somebody a happy birthday or congratulations or just say hi. Or you can also buy a business message if you want to like tell people about your website or encourage people to check out your Etsy shop or something like that.

This message is for Taylor and it's from Jazz. And Jazz says,

I hope you have the happiest of weekends. And I think that's absolutely lovely. So sweet. And for those of you who don't know, Candle Nights is a kind of – I think we talked a little bit about Candle Nights. Have we? Candle Nights? Well, I think we talked about it in the episode that no one's heard yet.

Candle Nights is kind of the McElroy version of the just all-encompassing Christmas holiday that absorbs and overtakes every other holiday that exists. It's a personal pan holiday. It's a personal pan holiday that fits whatever you need it to and happens whenever you need it. But that is, I think, absolutely lovely. A wonderful message from Jazz to Taylor. If you would like to check out the Jumbotron messaging system and maybe purchase one for yourself, you can go to MaximumFun.org forward slash Jumbotron.

And check it out. Or purchase it as a gift. As a gift. Segway. You can also do it as a gift to yourself. But now, as we were saying, a message from other MaxFun shows. Comedy, friendship, and creativity. All of this and more wait for you at MaxFunCon. Join us for MaxFunCon in Lake Arrowhead next June or MaxFunCon East in the Poconos next September. Tickets for both events are on sale now, but they're going fast. Visit MaxFunCon.com to buy your tickets right now.

From the dawn of time, one podcast has unlocked the secrets of science and technology to enrich the lives of billions. And now, after a year where they've unlocked the golden age of knowledge, they're about to hit warp speed and go stratospheric. Wait, hold up.

On Oh No Ross and Carrie, we don't make extraordinary claims. We investigate them. We go undercover with fringe religious groups, investigate paranormal claims, and we participate in pseudoscientific medical treatments and then report our findings to you. And yes, we've even investigated Scientology. Shh, Ross, shh. New episodes every month at MaximumFun.org. Oh No Ross and Carrie. They show up so you don't have to.

Okay. Let us do some questions. Let's see. Oh, this is a good one. This is from Lisha. Lisha asks, it might be Lisha or Lisha. I'm going with Lisha. Like Alicia, Lisha. Doing it. Don't try to stop me, Teresa. Stocking gifts. Do you wrap them up or is the stocking considered the wrapping?

I really think it just depends on how long you want to draw this kind of thing out. I would, I think that, I mean, Travis and I filled each other's stockings this year. And if it fit inside the stocking, I did not wrap it.

Because I do consider the stocking to be the wrapping. But if it didn't quite fit, I did wrap it. In general, I would say, like, especially if it's, like, edible, no need to wrap. Yeah, I agree with that. But I do think that if you, if in your personal traditions, with your group, whatever that might be, it is to, like, go through the stocking piece by piece.

I think it's perfectly fine to wrap small things. Like if you put, you know, a box with some jewelry or something in there, I think it's fine to wrap it. Or like, I don't know, a deck of cards or something like that. But I don't think you have to.

I think, I mean, you mentioned process and I think that is important. If the process for everyone is to dump their stocking and see all at once what everybody got, great. Don't wrap anything. There's no need to. This is from Nicole. Is there any polite way of telling someone to not get you anything when you know their financial situation is not good?

I think that when that happens, the best idea is to really approach it as a group sort of thing and say something to the effect of,

well, you know, it's about spending time together. So let's keep everything really low key this year. And there's no need to really set like a monetary value. But I think as long as you approach it as the group of us is doing this or let's do it this way so that they don't feel singled out as an

I mean, there's no need to say to someone, I know that you're poor and can't buy me presents. I would say, though, and maybe this is naive, but I would like to think that if this is someone that you think feels obligated enough, that feels connected to you enough...

that they want to get you a present even though they can't afford it, it's probably someone with whom you have a good enough relationship that you can say like, hey, listen, I know that this year has been a little tough on you. Here's what I want for Christmas. I want to hang out with you. I want to have a friend day where we watch Christmas movies together or where we play video games just us

all day. That's what you can get me this year. And I think that once again is a great example of something that we tend to push a lot, which is

Come at it making statements instead of like asking questions like, are you really able to afford? Like, don't do that. Say, this is what I want. This is what I want from you. And that way it's about you. You're making I statements rather than passing judgments on them. Great idea, Travis. Hey, thank you, Teresa. I appreciate that. This is a big one. And because I don't know the answer to this, but I have an inclination. This is from Eve.

Re-gifting, yes or no? Okay, as long as the original gifter and the re-gifty aren't aware? Well, so the thing about re-gifting is you really need to think about

Is this something that I'm trying to get rid of or is this something that the next person will really enjoy? I think that's an excellent point. I do think that you do have to make sure that the gift is brand new. So regifting hand-me-downs is not really regifting. And then you also have to make sure that

Wow. Ten years? Yeah.

Yeah, because I think that that's if it's a really close group of friends, you're going to go to each other's houses. You're going to see that gift. Oh, didn't I give you that vase last year? Didn't you like it?

And then you have to explain, well, it doesn't really fit in with my decor, but it really does fit in with Jenny's decor. Look at how great it looks here. I would say if not 10 years, a while. Oh, okay. A while. I think 10 years is just about right. Just long enough for people not to remember. I also would say that it really comes down to, for me, like, is it a present that someone put a lot of thought into to get for you?

Like, or is it something there's a really great SNL? Like, I think who was on there?

I can't remember who the guest was, but they made a music video for a song called Christmas Candle. And it was about how there's like one scented candle in the world that everyone has just re-gifted to each other. And it exists purely for when someone gets you a present that you weren't expecting them to get you a present. And that idea, like if somebody gets you, say, like a set of Bath & Body Works scented lotion, right? And it's not a scent you wear or you don't wear scented lotion or whatever. Right.

I think it is fine to then go, okay, this isn't a present for me. This is a present for someone else who needs it. Right. As long as you don't open it, don't use it, and don't give it to someone who would recognize it from somebody else. Correct. Let's see. This is from Kira. Is there an obligation to give a gift of equal monetary value when someone gives a gift first?

This is one of the kind of guidelines I think that you have to set for yourself. Is there something in you about, you know, this even Stevens kind of thing? Yeah.

Then you have to decide as far as monetary value, what does that really mean? Like if you got a really great sweater on sale and it's a $50 sweater, but you got it for 10, is it worth $10 or is it worth $50? And as long as everybody in the group of gift exchanges knows what the monetary system is,

I think that it's okay if you go even Stevens where like, well, it's worth $50, but I only paid 10. So if you only paid 10, you only paid 10. That's what it was, what it's worth.

It's something that you really kind of have to decide if that's... I know that that's not a very good answer. But it comes down to your personal decision as to what these kind of things are worth. And we also... We got a lot of questions that people worried about this like sense of... Not burden. What's the word I'm looking for? Where it's this feeling of imbalance, I would say. Where it's like somebody spent $150 on me and I only spent $25 on them. I think that...

Everybody is maybe worried a little bit too much about monetary value when really you should think about it this way. If someone got you a $10 mug that fully encapsulated everything about your personality and it was so perfect for you that when you looked at it, you couldn't help but think of you.

Versus someone just handing you a hundred dollar bill. Like the hundred dollar bill is worth more, but it's not for you. That's for anybody. Anybody could get that gift. I think that that's the way I tend to look at presents. The idea of like, okay, I don't care how much it costs. Did you get it for me or did you just pick a present up and then find somebody to give it to? Yeah. I mean, that's the frame of mind I'm talking about, you know, that sweater, um,

Maybe it was worth $50, but it was the perfect sweater. You had to get it for them. So then when you get someone a DVD and it's the perfect DVD, the movie that they love and never thought to buy for themselves, aren't they worth equal even though monetarily they're not? This question is from... Oh, is that rhetorical? Yes. The answer is yes. This question is from Kira. Is there an obligation to give a... Oh, no. I just asked that one. This question is from Crystal. Crystal.

What's the best way to give gifts for someone who was born on before slash after Christmas Eve, Christmas Day? Oh, man, this is rough because I'm of two minds. The first mind is the practical mind that says, well, I mean, you can use this opportunity to get them one big thing.

Something like that if you had budgeted $40 for the birthday and then $50 for Christmas or whatever, well now I'm justified to getting them something that's worth $100. That's my practical side. My emotional side says these are two different events. They deserve two different gifts. But then do I separate them into $50 each?

I'm not sure. Can I give you a variable that I think will help you make that decision? Okay. Age. Yes. Okay. Absolutely. Because I think if you're talking about like a – That is the piece of the puzzle that I was missing. If you're talking about like an 8-year-old kid, you got to separate them. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because an 8-year-old kid doesn't understand budgets. But if you're talking about like a 20-year-old person, bigger ticket item –

They totally get it. You know what I mean? Like, that's what it comes down to for me. Because I couldn't look at a six-year-old and go, you don't get a birthday because it's Christmas. Which, no matter how you phrase it, that is exactly what they're going to hear. You know what I mean? And then that child will cry. Yeah. And I also have always thought about this. Birthdays are big for me. I think we've talked about it on the show before. Like, where do you draw the line on this? Two days before Christmas? Five days before Christmas? Two weeks before Christmas? A month before Christmas? Like, how long...

outside of Christmas Day, do they get a separate birthday? You know what I mean? So, like, that's what I always think about. Like, why should the kid born a week before Christmas get a birthday, but the kid born the day before Christmas doesn't? Mm-hmm. You know? And I think...

And even if you can't, like if you're looking at it going, I can't afford to get two presents. If they're young enough, two cheap presents, two half as expensive presents is going to mean more to them than one fully expensive present. Yeah. You know, because they're a kid. They don't get it. I think you're right. The missing piece of that puzzle was age. And I'm going to say I'm going to put an arbitrary, well, maybe not arbitrary. Here's my reasonings. I'm going to put a two-week limit.

um on what we said older than 20 for one gift um because most people get paid every two weeks okay so if it's a budgetary thing you'll your cash flow is is on the up every two weeks and also i'll give you a secret their birthday christmas same day every year buy them a present earlier

Get their Christmas present in summer. Follow the Mike story. You know what I mean? Get that birthday present three months earlier. Then don't wait to buy them both at the same time because then that's more of a budget string. Another question from Eve. Is it expected to give a larger tip or a special holiday tip slash gift to service providers like mail carriers, hairdressers, restaurant service, hairdressers, I think was the word I was trying to say, and it doesn't matter, etc.?

This is something that Emily Post talks about. If it is someone who routinely services you, then yes. So if you see your hairdresser every two weeks, yes, you should give them a Christmas present if that's what you're doing. I'm not saying you have to. I'm saying if that's what you want to do.

If it is occurring to you, should I do this? Yes. The answer is yes if they service you often enough. Postal carriers, they deliver packages every day. If you're ordering from Amazon, like we do. Yes.

And now it's just a matter of catching them before they run away after our doorbell rings. So what's... In this circumstance, say we're talking like mail carriers, hairdressers, garbage people, which always makes it sound like it's a judgment call. Sanitation workers. Thank you. Garbage people. When we're talking about what...

You know, I know we were just talking about like presents that show, you know, that what, well, you don't know these people. What do you get them? Is gift cards and money okay here? I do believe so. Yes. Um, especially things that are, uh, something very useful, you know, like, uh, like a Starbucks gift card or, um, I wouldn't go and say that you wanted to give them a specific store gift card, but we love Amazon. Yeah.

I think Amazon is a great gift card to give people because they can pick out from millions of stores what it is exactly they like. So you're not quite giving them an errand to go do, and that's the best kind of gift cards.

As far as money goes, do you think, is there a set limit? Or is it like what your gut tells you how much you can afford, thought that counts, talk to your neighbors? Those are all really great suggestions. I would suggest that you keep it to a single denomination bill. So $10, $20, something like that so that there's not the...

the chance of money spilling out everywhere from a card or something. I also imagine in this day and age, if a sanitation worker, if you hand them anything...

You're probably doing more than 10% of people in the world. You know what I mean? Like, I don't think people think to do this anymore. So don't get yourself caught up in, is this enough? I think that that's a great way to stop yourself from doing something nice. This is from Sam. And I think this really is a problem of the modern Amazon age.

I have some gifts ordered that may not make it by Christmas. Is it okay to print out a card with an explanation of what they will receive or let them know that their gift is in the mail? Absolutely. This is something that sometimes in modern society just can't be helped.

Things run out. They go out of stock. They get stuck at FedEx centers and things like that. So if it's not going to make it there by Christmas, I think it's completely acceptable to let them know ahead of time they're going to be getting it.

And that, you know, it's still from you. It's just going to be delayed a day or two. Yeah. And it doesn't stop them from being able to use it. Yeah. Two days later, I think. But I think that that's better than the alternative, which is to not tell them. And then, like, it seems like you didn't get them anything. Yeah.

This question comes from Angela on Twitter. What do I do if there are too many people, mainly other people's children, that are on my list? Do I cut people out or go cheap? I think that there are more options than cutting people out and going cheap. I think that there is a certain amount of...

of leeway where you can use time as a gift. So if there is a lot of children, you can use, I'm going to take you on a play date this month type thing. Or I mean, for their parents, if you say, I will offer free babysitting for one night, you know, things like that. So there's

Those are not cheap because your time is worth money. But those are ways to help spread out that, I don't want to say burden, but help spread the load a little more than just going cheaper or cutting people out. And there's also always like,

I mean, like kids love candy candy. Like you can make like peppermint bark and you can make cookies and you can make. And, you know, if you're not a bakey person like but you can buy in bulk and then like make little gift bags to give them. You know what I mean? Like. But again, that's a gift of your time. Basically, your time either making those those treats or assembling a bag of treats. That's your time that you're giving to people. Yeah.

But and I and I don't think that's cheap. Like this is once again, the thought that counts. There is not a set amount. There's not a price that at which point someone will feel like you appreciate them. It's not like if you do $19 and 99 cents, they know you don't love them. Like it's not about that. It's like, OK, what's something they'll like? And if they like candy, if they like, you know, you can give a little kid like, you know, coupon book. Go for one free hangout with Aunt Teresa, like that kind of thing.

And like, I would have thought that was awesome if one of my, you know, cool aunts and uncles had given that stuff to me. This is from Renium on Twitter. When is it okay for a couple to start giving one gift from both of us? Well, certainly if you're married, I think. Or two.

Extended period together committed. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to backpedal from all of that. So married for sure. Extended. Committed together or engaged for sure. But I mean, there are people who have been together for like 20 years who aren't married. Right. So I would say if you are in a permanent couple...

A permanent relationship, yes, for sure. I think that if it is a situation where you pool your money in the way of living together, yes, that can be from both of you pooling your money. Certainly, if you share a bank account, absolutely, it can be from both of you because let's face it, you don't put your name on your dollars. What's funny about this is as you're describing it, I'm actually picturing...

Like an almost an uncanny valley of this, because say you've been dating the person like two weeks and Todd comes over for Christmas and

I think it's okay to put Todd's name on a present. Cause like, you've only been dating this person for like, you know, let's say two months, three months, something where it's not weird for them to come over for Christmas. Right. But then after like a year, maybe Todd knows them well enough that Todd should get their own, but then jump forward to like two years. And now it's okay to put from both of us again. I don't know. It's a weird, you know, because I, when you put it that way, it does kind of turn into an uncanny Valley. Um,

I think the real answer is I can't envision a scenario in which I would be upset that I got a present. Because I actually think the other is true. Like, I think it would be weird if, like...

For example, our friends Bob and Amanda, right? They're not, like, engaged. They're not married. They're not – but, like, if we went over to their house to hang out on Christmas and Bob handed us a present that just said, from Bob, while Amanda was sitting there, it would be weird. Like, I think that it's perfectly fine. I don't – we're all, you know, adults, and I don't think that anybody –

who expects two presents from two people who came together. If you come in the same car, you can put from both of us. How about that? I like that. That's perfect. Or, I mean, even if you didn't come in the same car, if you're coming together... Are you a unit? Are you a unit? If you're a unit...

Any denomination of unit. If you're a unit, totally cool. If it would be weird to see you two separately at an event like this, you get to put for both of us because then you can't. Like, man, we already started putting Bebe on our Christmas presents and she didn't help at all. Not one bit. She didn't pick anything out. She hasn't raised any money. In fact, it was almost harder to hold her while we were on our computers. Let's see.

This is from Jordan. I'm broke but crafty. Are homemade gifts from an adult really acceptable if they are at least useful? Yes. The end. The end. Because a gift is a gift. They're useful. You made it. And maybe even more so. I've especially hit a point of having... Teresa and I have now moved...

Oh, what? Like five times in the last three years. And so we've really had to take stock of like the material goods and possessions that we have in our home. And there's stuff like I would rather have a handmade, for example, blanket than going to the store and buying one. You know what I mean? Like knowing every time I look at a blanket that was a gift from a friend would be more special to me than, oh, I got that for 10 bucks at Target. Right. Well, you know, speaking of which, um,

I went through things like our kitchen towels because you always seem to end up with a lot of kitchen towels, hostess gifts, and holiday towels and things like that. The ones that I kept were the ones that people gave me and made for me. Like my friend Maggie made me some lovely kitchen towels on her sewing machine and I kept those for sure. I got rid of the ones that we got at the dollar store. Yeah. Um...

This is from Julie, and I want to bring this up. I know I already mentioned gift cards, but it's a much bigger topic, so I wanted to actually touch on it. And it's from Julie. Are gift cards good for people you know really well, or do they come off as too impersonal, even if they like the story? This is going to have to be something that Travis and I agree to disagree on. No, I think you'd be surprised. Well, by the look on your face.

I say yes. I was making a sheepish look. Oh, I say yes. I say that gift cards are always a great gift, even if you do know the person. Because there is definitely something satisfying to me to know that the person who I gave a gift card to went out and got exactly what they wanted. Okay.

I understand conventionally that you are correct. I agree with you. I only know that me personally, and really this stems from the type of kid that I was in

I had then and still have now, but to a lesser extent because I'm an adult and I'm responsible and I'm awesome and stuff. There's problems with expectation versus reality for events like Christmas. Okay. Where I wanted it to be magical. When we went to Disney World, I wanted it to be magical. I didn't want to stop and take a break. I was a bit of a brat when it came to that. But part of it was ADD and one-track mind and that kind of thing. But...

For me, personally, no. But I do recognize that for most people, the experience of, thank you, I'd rather just go buy clothes myself. Thank you, I'd rather just, like,

Most people feel that way. I had this big conversation with Brent in college because when Brent went home for Christmas, he would come back with a stack, like a playing card set of gift cards. And I was like, oh man, bummer. And he was like, why? I have now money. People gave me plastic money that I can use when I need it, where I need it, for things I need. And it wasn't just this explosion of like craftsmanship

that like now I have to lug around in my life. And I was like, oh, well, you know, when you put it that way, like it is a good point. That idea of like a lot of this is like maybe people don't need these things, but they make a list because like they want, they know you want to get, I think of like our wedding, for example, is like when we made a gift registry for our wedding, we did it because we knew there would be people in our life who would feel weird just giving us money.

But what we really needed was money. So like I get it. I just know that me personally, I don't like getting gift cards at Christmas. So let's make a kind of summation. The question asker said even if you know the person really well, right? Yeah.

Well, if you know them really well, you'll know whether or not they are like me and Brent or they're like Travis. Yeah. I would say anyone who's known me for more than six months has heard me talk about gift cards as presents. This is from Kaylin on Twitter. Is there a way I can ask what someone wants without sounding lazy? Am I just bad at thinking of presents?

I think that there is a way you can ask. You can say to the point of, I'd really like to get something for you that you need, that you wouldn't get for yourself. So please let me know if there is something like that and I can purchase that for you or something to that effect where you make it about, I would like to do this for you.

How can please help me help you? Yeah, I think it's also fine to say like ideas like I don't need specifics. But are you looking for new clothes this year? Are you in need of, you know, are you looking for new movies, new video games? What do you what what kind of like what genre of thing do you need more of in your life? If that's what you're worried about. But I think that there's nothing wrong with a list.

You know, and you can go off list too, but like, especially if it's the kind of person who's like, here's my list. These are the things I want. I don't need anything else, which I know those people too. You know, I think it's fine to ask. I mean, in speaking in generalities, we, the, the culture is we ask kids to make lists for Santa. Yeah. That's the culture of our times. So, yeah.

I don't think that asking for a list is bad manners. We got two more questions, and I'm going to reverse them so that we end on the other one. This is from Eli. Yeah, you didn't need to know that. That's a structural thing in my head. This is from Eli. What level of relationship should I get presents for? Obviously immediate family, but what about extended family and friends? If there is going to be a holiday event where you expect presents will be exchanged...

I think personally you should get stuff for them because I like to be included in the gift exchange. So you should get presents for those friends and those relatives. And then after that, I think that it's about... See, here's my thing. I talked about gifting the last episode. And if you think of that person often enough...

To buy them a gift, you should buy them a gift. Here's the reality. The reality of it is there's two answers to this.

Because one is you should get gifts for the people you want to get gifts for. And you should get gifts for the people you feel obligated to get gifts for. Like you might have an aunt that like you don't want to get a gift for. But you know she's going to be at your family Christmas. And you know she's going to get you something. So you get her a present. And you might have a friend who you know like you don't normally exchange presents for. But you thought of something for them. That was perfect. That was perfect. Perfect.

So you should get that for them. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like that. But I think that you should never feel obligated to get a present for someone you're not obligated to get a present for. And you shouldn't not get gifts for someone just because you couldn't think of something. You know what I mean? Well, because like I said, a gift is not a wage or a reward. Right.

It's something that you give to someone because you want to give it to them. Or because you have to. Because that does happen. Well, I love my family. I want to give them gifts. That doesn't mean that I like everybody in my family all the time and that they deserve to have gifts because...

There are times when I feel like some of them don't. Love, love, love. Kisses, kisses, kisses. But I love them, so I do want to give them gifts. They don't deserve it sometimes.

But I give it to them because I love them. I understand what you're saying. Gifts are not something you give because someone earns them. Exactly. Even if earning them is by proxy. But I also do get this, Eli, because I often have this feeling of like, I love my friends. I should get them things. And it's like, okay, wait, hold on. That's just, that's knee-jerk reaction. Really sit and think about it like,

What do I give my friends on a daily basis that shows them that I love them? And is that a thing that needs to happen in the holiday season? You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.

And gift of time. I'm going to keep reiterating that because spending time opening up your home, having a get together or when you're out together, maybe having the round be on you or, you know, thinking of something special to do with them, taking like going to have mani pedis together, things like that. Gift of time is also important and appreciated. OK, so this last question is from Blake and I, Blake, I want you to know I

- Super relate to this. I love that you asked this. - He put his NPR voice on for you. - I do, I love it. I'm super awkward about giving/receiving presents. What's appropriate when I give or receive a gift? And the reason I love this, just to speak from my own personal feelings in this, this was a thing I used to, I remember having this discussion with my dad when I was like 12 or 13. And that was, if I put a present on a list,

And then got that present. It was really hard for me to act surprised. And so I attempted to talk to my dad and say, hey, even if I don't go crazy, it'll be hard for me to act surprised. I appreciate it. Thank you for that. And my dad's response was, okay, you should act enthusiastic. We got you a present. So like maybe muster up the ability to act enthusiastic about your excitement for getting that present. I was like, ah, message received. You got it.

So here are some tips and tricks for you. First of all, say thank you and be sincere about it. Because even if you expected it, they gave it to you. Say thank you. And then even if you don't like it, recognize that they put forth the effort to get you a gift and it was caring of them to do so. It's the thought that counts. And then even if you don't like it,

The next sentence, and I'm putting this together like my thank you notes. The next sentence should be something about the gift that you like. Okay? Not that you don't like, obviously. Even if you don't like the gift. Something that you like about it. Even if, like, that sweater that we talked about is not the right size. Oh, it's so warm. Oh, so fuzzy. So soft. Thank you. I just love, I love Angora yarn. This is lovely. Okay.

And then, you know, you can go and exchange things later or whatever and all that other kind of stuff. But don't ask for gifts receipts right away if it's not included in the package that everything was given in. Wait.

Until later, and I'm not talking like later that day. I'm talking like call that person up and say, I love the sweater that you gave me. I tried it on and you know what? It doesn't fit. So can I have a receipt so I can exchange it for...

Something that does fit. And I think that also holds true for the... I have before given presents to people where I wasn't sure if it was the right thing I was giving them. And the inclination when you do that is to ask the person as they open the box, like, is that right? Do you like it? Did I get the right thing? And you're really putting the person on the spot with that. I think it's okay to let that moment pass and maybe later in the day be like...

Hey, just real quick. I wasn't sure if that was the right size when I got it. If I was wrong, here's the receipt. By all means, feel free to go get yourself the right one. And then if someone gives you a gift card or money, it's a really nice idea to explain how you might use it.

So to react to that, you would be like, oh, thanks, Dad. This gift card will come in really handy when I need to buy books for school this year. Thanks, I really appreciate it. Something like that. So those are a couple of tips and tricks about how to respond when people give you gifts. Yeah. In general...

A little bit of a mask never hurts with that kind of thing. You know, get good at going, oh, wow. You know, we're like, hey. And also, I've gotten gifts before where I did not immediately recognize what the gift is. And it's perfectly fine. I'm like, huh, what? Oh, like, that's fine. But, you know, that idea of like, well, it's not perfect, but I can exchange it later. That's not a thing you ever want to say right after you open a box, you know? Yes. Because part...

Part of... Here's the little secret. Here's a little tip from Teresa to me. Wait, wait. Me and Teresa to you. There it is. A gift we can give you. Part of the gift that you give people during the holidays is you opening the present. Yes. People get presents for people because they want to see them happy. They want to make them happy. And so part of the gift that you give somebody...

Is your reaction to opening the present. Your reaction to receiving the present. Your appreciation for it.

And so just like you would do if like somebody gave you a candle that you didn't like, like I just think it's important to be gracious. Absolutely. Without being fake, you know, without like, oh my God, this is the greatest candle I've ever gotten. Like I don't think that's necessary. But even if you say, oh wow, thank you so much for thinking of me. Oh, I really...

I really appreciate this. Yeah. You don't have to appreciate the gift, but you can appreciate the fact that they got you a gift. Exactly. Um,

So I think that's going to do it for us. And you know what? Thank you all for listening. You checking in is a gift that you give us every week, and we very much appreciate it. You telling other people about the show is an even better gift because then the community continues to grow, and a gift that you give is a better gift. There's something in there. I'm going to work on that. I'm going to figure that out. But if you wouldn't mind telling other people about the show. Or going to iTunes and reviewing and rating.com.

That would be a great gift for us too. Um, and you know what? You can also just like go on Twitter every week. We, uh, put out a tweet, you know, a tweet announcing the show. You can just hit retweet on that or go on Facebook and be like, Oh my God, the show is so good. You gotta check it out. Um, like I said, next week we're going to put up our live episode about Victorian Christmas. And then I believe the 30th, January, uh, December 30th, we'll probably take that week off since we'll be traveling. Um, but then we'll be back the first week in January. Um,

Go check out all the other amazing shows on MaximumFun.org. There's a ton of great shows on there. I want to, though, say something about a non-MaxFun show. Griffin and Rachel...

my, I, you know, our brother and sister-in-law, um, do a show called Rose buddies. That is just like my top three favorite podcasts of all time. Normally they discuss, they discuss the bachelor and the bachelorette. Um, but they, um, you know, there are no new bachelor and bachelorettes right now. So, um,

They, for a while, were discussing The Canadian Bachelorette, which was great. But since they had Henry, their last two episodes were about Tara's House, which is my new favorite reality show that I was introduced to by Griffin and Rachel. It's on Netflix.

It is a schmanners experience, you guys. Like, watch. It's... Okay. Quick rundown. It is like Japanese real world except no manufactured drama. They don't have, like, confessionals where people talk. All of the stakes are very real human stakes without having anything manufactured to the point of anxiety. And it's just watching people interact with each other. And it is, like...

And sometimes they interact really well and they communicate honestly and nicely. And sometimes they do not. And it's like a Schmanners field guide. It's wonderful. Terrace, T-E-R-R-A-C-E, Terrace House on Netflix. But also Griffin and Rachel just put out an episode talking about how they met and their relationship and how that formed. And it was just great.

darling. It was very sweet. It was very sweet and touching. I highly recommend it. Rose buddies. Check that out. I want to say thank you as always to Brent Brental floss black for our, um, intro and outro music. That's available as a ringtone. Go and seek that out.

and also to Kayla M. Wassil for our beautiful banner and thumbnail art and to Emily Post. Thank you very much, Emily. You're my girl. I just want to say we've received a lot of wonderful, very lovely Christmas cards and holiday cards from people. They've sent them to our P.O. box. If you are interested in sending us anything, do not feel obligated to. You can go to McElroyShows.com and under the contact tab below,

We are the Midwest HQ. I think that's going to do it for us. Join us again next week. No RSVP required. You've been listening to Schmanners. Manners. Schmanners. Get it? MaximumFun.org Comedy and culture. Artist owned. Listener supported.