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cover of episode Inside Gong: How teams work with design partners, their pod structure, autonomy, trust, and more | Eilon Reshef (co-founder and CPO)

Inside Gong: How teams work with design partners, their pod structure, autonomy, trust, and more | Eilon Reshef (co-founder and CPO)

2025/1/2
logo of podcast Lenny's Podcast: Product | Growth | Career

Lenny's Podcast: Product | Growth | Career

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E
Eilon Reshef
L
Lenny Rachitsky
曾任Airbnb产品领袖,Localmind联合创始人和CEO,著名产品管理博客和播客作者。
Topics
@Eilon Reshef : Gong公司采用独特的pod模式,每个pod由产品经理、UX设计师和工程师组成,负责特定产品的开发和迭代。这种模式在公司扩张后被复制,提高了团队效率和产品成功率。 每个pod都与多个设计伙伴紧密合作,通常每个pod会与12到24个设计伙伴协作。这种合作方式极大地提高了产品与客户需求的匹配度,确保了产品的实用性和市场竞争力。 Gong公司非常重视团队的自主性和信任,赋予团队成员充分的决策权,鼓励他们根据自身判断和客户反馈来进行产品开发。这种工作方式提高了团队的积极性和创造力,也降低了产品开发的风险。 Gong公司提倡快速决策,即使信息不完全,也鼓励团队快速做出决策,并根据结果进行调整。这种决策机制提高了团队的效率和适应性,尤其是在快速变化的市场环境中。 Gong公司在AI应用方面积累了丰富的经验,认为企业不应该对AI技术抱有不切实际的期望。虽然LLM等技术具有巨大的潜力,但企业仍然需要拥有AI领域的专业知识,才能有效地利用这些技术,并确保AI模型的准确性和可靠性。 Gong公司在学习新技术方面采用“螺旋式学习法”,通过与不同的人交流,逐渐深入理解复杂的概念。这种学习方法提高了学习效率,并确保了学习成果的可靠性。 Gong公司在确定目标客户群体时,采取了非常聚焦的策略,最初只针对特定类型的客户,以实现快速增长和口碑传播。 在产品开发过程中,Gong公司也经历过一些失败,例如最初没有选择合适的目标客户群体。这些失败为Gong公司提供了宝贵的经验教训,帮助他们不断改进和完善产品开发流程。 @Lenny Rachitsky : 本期访谈主要围绕Gong公司的独特工作模式展开,包括其pod模式、与设计伙伴的合作方式、团队自主性和信任文化、快速决策机制以及AI应用等方面。 Gong公司的产品在B2B领域非常普及且备受好评,这在业界非常罕见。 访谈中,Eilon Reshef分享了Gong公司成功的秘诀,包括其独特的团队合作模式、自主信任的文化以及快速决策机制。 访谈还探讨了Gong公司在AI领域的经验和教训,以及如何平衡客户反馈和产品愿景。 访谈最后,Eilon Reshef分享了他个人的学习方法——螺旋式学习法,以及Gong公司在确定目标客户群体和处理失败案例方面的经验。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

What is Gong's pod model and how does it organize product teams?

Gong's pod model organizes product teams into cross-functional units, each consisting of a product manager, a user experience designer, fractional writers, fractional analysts, and 5-7 engineers led by an engineering team leader. This structure allows pods to operate autonomously, focusing on specific outcomes like building new products or features, such as the forecasting tool they developed.

How does Gong work with design partners in their product development process?

Gong works closely with design partners, often involving 6-12 or even up to 24 partners per pod. These partners provide real-time feedback on half-built features, allowing Gong to iterate quickly and ensure the product meets customer needs. This approach has led to a near 100% success rate in feature adoption.

Why does Gong prioritize autonomy and trust within their product teams?

Gong prioritizes autonomy and trust because it allows team members to bring their unique perspectives and creativity to the table, leading to better results. Eilon Reshef believes that giving teams the freedom to make decisions fosters motivation and long-term engagement, ultimately resulting in higher-quality products.

What is the 'spiral method' for learning complex topics quickly?

The 'spiral method' involves starting with a basic understanding of a topic and then spiraling deeper by talking to multiple experts. As you gather insights from different sources, the new information decreases until you reach a point of convergence, indicating a solid understanding of the topic. This method helps in quickly mastering complex subjects.

Why did Gong focus on a narrow initial customer profile (ICP) when starting out?

Gong focused on a narrow ICP to create a 'small pond' where customers could influence each other, leading to viral adoption. By targeting specific criteria like U.S.-based companies selling software over video conferencing, Gong was able to build a strong foothold in a niche market before expanding.

What lessons has Gong learned from being early in AI development?

Gong learned that while LLMs (Large Language Models) are powerful, they don't solve everything. Expertise in AI and machine learning is still essential for building specialized models, such as deal prediction systems. Gong emphasizes the importance of measuring progress and iterating quickly to improve AI capabilities.

How does Gong balance customer feedback with their product vision?

Gong encourages product managers to interpret customer feedback rather than blindly implementing requests. They assess whether a feature is a 'must-have' or unique to one customer. This approach ensures that products are broadly applicable while still addressing specific customer needs.

What is the role of a 'research coordinator' in Gong's product development process?

A research coordinator at Gong handles the logistics of setting up meetings with design partners. They work with product managers to identify target markets and customer profiles, then reach out to potential partners and schedule meetings, streamlining the process for the product team.

What is Eilon Reshef's approach to making quick decisions, even for big one-way door decisions?

Eilon Reshef believes in making decisions quickly, even when the choice isn't clear-cut. He argues that many decisions are 51-49 in favor of one option, and delaying doesn't significantly improve the outcome. This approach reduces overthinking and keeps the team moving forward efficiently.

What is the significance of Gong's 95% feature adoption rate?

Gong's 95% feature adoption rate highlights the effectiveness of their design partner approach. By working closely with customers during development, Gong ensures that the features they build are highly relevant and valuable, leading to widespread usage across their customer base.

Chapters
This chapter explores Gong's unique pod model for organizing product teams and its unconventional approach to working with design partners. It highlights the high success rate of this model in building features that are widely adopted by users and the importance of close collaboration between pods and design partners.
  • Gong uses a pod model, which is a cross-functional product team structure.
  • Each pod works with 5-24 design partners.
  • They aim for nearly 100% feature adoption rate.
  • Success is attributed to close collaboration and customer feedback.

Shownotes Transcript

Eilon Reshef is the co-founder and chief product officer at Gong, one of the most ubiquitous B2B products in the world. In our conversation, we discuss:

• Gong’s unique approach to working with design partners

• Their unique pod model

• Why Eilon makes big decisions quickly

• Lessons learned from being early in AI

• The power of extreme focus

• His “spiral method” for learning complex topics quickly

• How to maintain quality while optimizing for speed

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Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-gong-eilon-reshef

Where to find Eilon Reshef:• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eilonreshef

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Eilon’s background

(04:20) The pod model

(06:33) Working with design partners

(09:13) Finding and coordinating design partners

(13:12) Balancing customer feedback and vision

(15:10) Gong's 95% feature adoption

(17:05) The importance of autonomy and trust

(23:30) How to implement this unique way of working

(27:15) Speed and decision-making

(31:47) Early AI adoption and lessons learned

(35:50) Building effective AI teams

(38:16) The spiral method for learning

(41:36) Narrowing down the initial customer profile

(44:24) Failure corner

(46:35) Lightning round

Referenced:

• Gong: https://www.gong.io

• Cisco: https://www.cisco.com/

• How Gong builds product: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-gong-builds-product

• What is Montessori education?: https://amshq.org/About-Montessori/What-Is-Montessori

• Isaac Asimov: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Asimov

• Amit Bendov on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amitbendov/

• Lessons from scaling Spotify: The science of product, taking risky bets, and how AI is already impacting the future of music | Gustav Söderström (Co-President, CPO, and CTO at Spotify): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/lessons-from-scaling-spotify-the

• Nvidia: https://www.nvidia.com

• Figma: https://www.figma.com

• The Spiral Method: https://www.gong.io/blog/using-the-spiral-method/

• Webex: https://www.webex.com/

• L’Oréal: https://www.lorealparisusa.com/

• American Express: https://www.americanexpress.com/

Slow Horses on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/slow-horses/umc.cmc.2szz3fdt71tl1ulnbp8utgq5o

• Dishwasher basket: https://www.amazon.com/Munchkin-High-Capacity-Dishwasher-Basket/dp/B07ZPMYKKS/

• What most people miss about marketing | Rory Sutherland (Vice Chairman of Ogilvy UK, author): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/what-most-people-miss-about-marketing

• Occam’s razor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

• Hanlon’s razor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor

• Sabich: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabich#Ingredients_and_description

• Careers at Gong: https://www.gong.io/careers

Recommended books:

• Marty Cagan’s books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Marty-Cagan/author/B00J21JTNM

• “The Machine That Won the War”: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18402398-the-machine-that-won-the-war

Crossing the Chasm: Marketing and Selling Disruptive Products to Mainstream Customers: https://www.amazon.com/Crossing-Chasm-3rd-Disruptive-Mainstream/dp/0062292986

The Ideal Executive: https://www.amazon.com/Ideal-Executive-Ichak-Kalderon-Adizes/dp/0937120030/

Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking when Stakes Are High: https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-Conversations-Tools-Talking-Stakes/dp/1260474186/

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

We're sunsetting PodQuest on 2025-07-28. Thank you for your support!

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