cover of episode How Gusto built a $9.5 billion company by identifying a burning problem

How Gusto built a $9.5 billion company by identifying a burning problem

2025/7/1
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Tomer London: 我认为Gusto的创立源于我想做一些有用的事情,但这个过程并非一帆风顺。我经历了无数失败的想法,进行了数百次的客户访谈,并进行了数不清的迭代,最终才确定薪资是需要解决的问题。在早期,我亲自引导每一位客户,接听每一个支持电话,通过这些直接的互动,我深刻地了解了客户的情感反应,这帮助我们构建了一个真正受人喜爱的产品。我父亲的经历也深深影响了我,他告诉我创业非常艰难,但也激发了我为小企业主构建更好工具的愿望。我年轻时为父亲的服装店开发库存管理软件,这激发了我对软件的兴趣,也让我坚信自己有能力从一个大的想法开始,即使不完全清楚如何实现。在斯坦福攻读博士学位期间,我受到了史蒂夫·乔布斯毕业演讲和谷歌创始人故事的启发,这让我更加渴望构建能让人们快乐的产品。我意识到,成功需要做对很多事情,避免很多错误,并且需要一些运气。多次创业经历可以帮助避免重复犯错,并提供做正确事情的捷径。重要的是,我们需要一个能够同舟共济、自信且谦逊的团队,能够承认错误。在之前的公司,我没有注重招聘具有谦逊品质的人,而是过于关注原始智力和技能。我认为产品市场契合应该像拉绳子一样,有积极的张力,而不是像推绳子一样费力。重要的是客户对产品的强烈情感反应,无论是积极的还是消极的,而不是礼貌的客套话。创业者需要培养不怕被拒绝的厚脸皮,因为学习往往来自于被拒绝。重要的是寻找情感共鸣和紧迫感,希望客户第二天就发邮件询问何时可以使用产品。通过Yelp页面给企业打电话,每天尝试不同的推销方式,利用每次机会学习。专注于服务中小企业,因为大型平台对Gusto的解决方案兴趣不大,感觉像在推绳子。Gusto很幸运,在2012年开始,当时小企业和人们开始信任互联网处理财务。从仅在加利福尼亚州为受薪员工提供工资单开始,然后逐步扩展到其他州和类型的员工。在工资单之后,Gusto的第二个产品是福利,因为福利对客户来说是一个巨大的问题。我希望我们能更快地关注更广泛的合规性领域,不仅包括工资单和福利合规性,还包括如何保持整个公司的合规性。从父亲那里学到了长期导向,不仅仅是交易,而是一种关系。

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Tomer London is the co-founder and Chief Product Officer at Gusto, the payroll and people platform used by over 400,000 businesses. He grew up helping run his dad’s clothing store in Israel — an experience that sparked his mission to build better tools for small business owners. After moving to the US for a PhD at Stanford, he met his co-founders and started Gusto.

In today’s episode, we discuss:

  • Reinventing payroll without any prior experience

  • Why you should hire for humility, not just talent

  • Gusto’s scrappy customer research: cold calling from a walk-in closet

  • Why founders should embrace customer rejection

  • Why “emotional urgency” matters more than polite feedback

  • The weekly co-founder ritual that built trust

  • How Gusto expanded from payroll to a multi-product platform

  • Building products customers actually love

  • And so much more

Referenced:

Where to find Tomer:

Where to find Brett:

Where to find First Round Capital:

Timestamps:

(00:00) How a childhood around SMBs shaped Tomer’s founder mindset

(03:24) The three things that led to the creation of Gusto

(07:17) Hiring for humility, not just talent

(09:28) The tug-of-war test for product-market fit

(11:58) Why founders should actively seek rejection

(15:34) Gusto’s scrappy customer research: cold calling from a walk-in closet

(17:45) Betting on SMBs – and ignoring investor advice

(20:44) “It’s not an MVP, it’s something that wows people”

(24:09) Serving SMBs vs. startups

(28:36) How to find the right co-founders

(31:09) The weekly co-founder ritual that built trust

(35:02) Reinventing payroll without any prior experience

(38:49) Gusto’s “start small” GTM playbook

(42:16) The big opportunity Gusto wishes they tackled sooner

(43:58) How switching costs became Gusto’s moat

(47:25) The two lucky breaks that gave Gusto an edge

(51:56) What Tomer learned about customers from his dad’s clothing store