300 · Patrick Petersson - We Should Not Die as Traders
01:27:33 Share

Chat with Traders is sponsored by Plus 500. Ever thought about dipping your toes into futures trading but felt lost in all the jargon? I get it. Trading can seem overwhelming at first. But here's the thing. With Plus 500's futures platform, you don't need to be a financial expert to get started. With Plus 500, you can access a wide range of markets. S&P 500, NASDAQ, Bitcoin, natural gas, forex, metals,

That's right, Ian. And if you don't want to risk even a penny, plus $500.

offers an unlimited risk-free demo account packed with real charts and tools to help you practice and build confidence before jumping in with real money. With over 20 years of experience and over 30 million global customers, Plus 500 is your trusted gateway to the futures market. Visit us.plus500.com to learn more.

Thank you.

You get access to up to $260,000 of buying power. You keep up to 80% of your profits while the firm covers the risk. It's the perfect way to trade big without risking your own funds. Are you ready to become a funded trader? Join Trade the Pool.

Trading in the financial markets involves a risk of loss. Podcast episodes and other content produced by Chat with Traders are for informational or educational purposes only and do not constitute trading or investment recommendations or advice. So how often do you encounter traders who say learn a lesson in a particular market regime, like a particular type of market?

And then time goes by and then they forget that or they ignore the lessons that they learned in the past. Like for example, during the COVID time when we had that huge drop and the VIX goes up and they learn all about volatility. And then some years later, things calm down. And how frequent have you found where traders forget the lessons they've learned in the past or discount them and think, well, maybe this time it's different?

Really good question. I think everyone is guilty. Me also. We can...

Really? How so? Because we can take lessons every single day from the market and we find something where we exactly know, oh, stupid, why I'm doing this. So I give you some example from my trading. Markets, speculation, and risk. This is the Chat with Traders podcast.

And we meet again on Chat with Traders, episode 300. Nice big round number. We should not die as traders. Hey, what's that all about? Well, guess what? You'll find out.

This is Tessa, your co-host, and I'm really thrilled about introducing today's episode because this guest is special to us. We first discovered him in our own online Chat with Traders community about two years ago when it was open, two years after first appearing on episode 260. If you missed it, you can listen to it. This intuitive price action news-based scalper trader who breathes in

And out the market is back. Yep. It's Patrick Peterson with that unmistakable voice. And he's back to chat with my co-host Ian. In a refreshingly blunt conversation, we get to catch up with Patrick and see what he's up to these days. Patrick shares in a very real way,

practical real-life trading topics and issues that traders are facing today, including the psychological and practical challenges of trading, the role community and engagement plays into one's trading development. And, you know, coming out from isolation into collaboration in his own trading evolution, he shares a lot about the importance of

community and also his thoughts on current issues like the sharp divide between traders risking their own capital and those cycling through prop firm challenges. And he talks about also how there's no shortage of tools, but there are shortages, real shortages of real honest guidance for traders and so much more. Also, don't miss my little catch up with Patrick towards the end.

All right, let's get straight to it. Ladies and gentlemen, we're so thrilled to welcome back Patrick Peterson, originally from Germany. Hello, everyone. This is your host, Ian Cox, here at Chat with Traders. And about two years ago, in episode 260, I had the pleasure of interviewing Patrick Peterson.

an intuitive news-based market action trader who took money given to him by his parents with the purpose of buying a car, but instead took that money and started secretly trading after opening his first trading account on his 18th birthday. Patrick, welcome back to Chat with Traders. Yeah, welcome, Ian. It's an honor for me to be here. And yeah, thank you for having me here.

Fantastic. Yeah. So when I last interviewed you in 2023, if we could go back to that time and if you could give us kind of a historical update on what you've been doing and learning since then. Wow. So it may be two years, but it feels like 20 years. So there's so much going on and everything is starting with the Shed for Traders community. Everyone knows it.

So we were making the decision after one year that we closed this. There were some good reasons for this. Then the life after. So I found a new community. It's the MentorQ community. And now I'm being a business partner for MentorQ. And I'd be honored to be in the community, to be the mentor, to develop also products for traders.

to give all my experience there. So that's basically what was happened the last two years. But behind the scenes, there's so much more going on. Yeah. And so prior to being involved with the chat with traders community, did you have much experience interacting with other traders in other communities in the past? Or had you been kind of more go it alone and just

trade by yourself and not have that. No, I'm only a lonely wolf. So I'm a lonely one. But since I was joining the Shetfield Traders community, everything was changed. As I told to Tessa, I think everyone knows the story. I can tell this again. So I was nervous speaking to some Asian people. This was not normal for me.

or to have friendship with, let's say, black people. So black people are now my best friends. So this was something what was happening in the Shed With Traders community. So to be open for the worldwide. So we're having friends in Australia. We're having friends in Africa. We're having friends in Brazil. We're having friends in Canada. I was Meet Steve, by the way, in the Shed With Traders community. He was also on your broadcast.

Big shout out to him. And also, this is something what was life changing for me. And I can tell everyone who's listening to the broadcast, go in some community, find something where you can find your second home. Having good friends around you will support you as trader, will challenge you as trader, will become accountability to you, will help you to grow.

So be strong as a team. And this was something when I was learning Shedwith Traders community. I was never be a team player, but since Shedwith Traders, I am. What was it like being in a community and transitioning to a team player? Tell us what did you experience with either what you heard or read from the other team members and then what you suggested as well to them? It's about the problems for traders have, I think.

Every trader has some problem. There's no trader outside who's perfect. Everyone has something who he struggles with. And basically... Even you? Yeah. And everyone, Ian, I can tell you, you're struggling with the same stuff when I'm struggling, but on a different way.

And the cool stuff in the community is I become the experience from you and you become the experience for me. I see your view of this problem and you get my view on this problem. And that's the opportunity where we can grow together as a trader. And this was something what was so, so helpful. And in the moment where I was understanding this, sharing knowledge,

My experience with the people, I get feedback from the people. They say, hey, that's amazing what you're doing. I'm struggling with this. I'm struggling with this. And then I was thinking like, hey, I'm struggling with the same, but on a different way. And again, that's something what is so powerful in a community. But to be really honest,

I'd be a little bit pissed off. So I'd be a straight shooter, as everyone knows in the episode 260. I'd be really pissed off. If you're looking into the community world, there's so many bullshit going on. So many people posting only his porn P&Ls. They're saying, hey, I was making 4,000 US dollars. I'm making 5,000 US dollars. They're putting on some shards and all this stuff.

But this is not really what's helping the people. So I can tell you, I have now a five-year son and I teach him to trading. And he's asking me every time, hey, daddy, why?

Why are you going long? Why are you doing this? Why, why, why, why? And for him, I must explain this to him that he understands this with his five-year mind. And this is something that I'm missing in the community world and also from all experienced traders because there's so much bullshit going on. I'll give you one example of what really triggered me the last few weeks.

When we're getting the terrorist news, the VIX goes really crazy to the upside. As everyone knows, everyone was speaking about, hey, the VIX is going crazy. There's so much volatility around.

But no one, but maybe there was some people. Also, I'm guilty also. No one was there and teach the people, maybe the new ones or people who are not so experienced with this. Hey, what is this meaning? What is this meaning for your trading? What is this meaning for your risk management? What is this meaning for your position sites? What is this meaning for your take profits? What is this meaning basically for your trading approach?

No one is talking about this. Everyone is talking about the mathematical, the trading perspective, but no one is helping the traders outside.

I can tell you there are not so many people outside who are understanding the Wix, how everything works. And they don't need the mathematical. The only thing what they need is, hey, if the Wix goes to this, be careful, then you can do like this, you can do like this. Give them some really handoff, like as I teach this to my five-year son, hey, I told my son, the Wix is now basically on 50%.

We were not trading. Our only setup is we're waiting that the VIX comes down because if the VIX comes down, we can make so much profit and we will not be involved in the volatility. And we're waiting carefully. Be patient. And then I teach them how to be risk management, what we should do. We're going only little, tiny, small size because this little, tiny, small size is making us so much big profits.

And this is something where I was missing outside that people teaching other people what they should do. And in a really simple approach, I don't know in the marketing world,

There's something what people saying always, there's some approach and they saying, hey, basically, if you cannot sell this product in simple words to your grandma, then that's bullshit. And it's the same in trading. If we cannot teach a five-year son or our grandma about the VIX, what they should do, then it's bullshit. And this is something where we should be all people

thinking about to make trading a little bit easier to understand outside for the people. And basically, now you're trying to be basically for our kids outside and for the young people. There are so many young people who are getting distracted in the social world.

They have no really fun anymore. They're playing, I don't know, computer games or they're doing bullshit, basically. But we have now the opportunity to go to the young people and teach them trading, teach them how they can become maybe in 10, 20, 30 years financial free in a really simple approach and teach them like this, that they really like this, that they enjoy this.

That's a feeling fun to trade. That's a thinking like, hey, man, that's exactly what I want. This is what I can do and bring them from the streets, bring them from the hood. Don't teach them how to sell any bullshit on the streets. Teach them how they can make money on legal rate in the market. Teach them this really simple.

And then we can save so many lives. We can make so many people in the future financially independent. And this is something what I was learning also through the community, because people liking the simple approach.

So what is it about the VIX? I mean, a high VIX means there's high volatility. And don't traders thrive on high volatility opportunities? I mean, isn't having a high VIX actually good for opportunities? Okay, I would make this as simple as possible because

I don't want to explain the risk. I'm not good in this. I know the terminology, but I'm not good in this, to be really honest. But the really good example is if you was trading on the high weeks for a few weeks when we get the terrorist on the Trump, everything was going on. Everyone knows it. If you was trading the ES,

Basically, you have the feeling you're trading the NQ. Your P&L was running very crazy to the upside and to the downside. That's basically high volatility. If you're trading normally, like, for example, two ES contracts and...

The P&L is not rising so fast to the upside or to the downside. But with high volatility, you can have huge moves to the upside and to the downside. Looking to the downside, risk always first. So you can lose so much money. And if you don't know it, what you should do in doing high volatility, that's badass and you lose so much money and time.

And basically, if I was trading the NQ, I'm trading mostly the NQ. I was feeling like I'm trading the Bitcoin. Like the numbers going crazy to the upside and to the downside. So what I should be doing, I should be now reducing my exposure, thinking about no more trading the futures, maybe trading now the ETFs because I save capital. I save exposure. I'm not going so much in the drawdown or down.

take back from the market and come back when the volatility comes down. So basically, this is something that happens in high volatility in simple terms. Because on my side, where I be, I know so many people taking so many losses, so many blow-ups during the last few weeks.

Because there was no experience with this. And this is something what I mean, basically. This is why I'm also guilty. Not teaching them, hey, if you see something like this, be very careful. This is meaning you can make good money, but you can lose very fast. And this is no more fun. This is really like trading now, not your size, what you're doing normally. Take it a little bit step back.

Look, this is what I mean. Teach them this basically. What does this really mean? We can now go into the mathematical stuff, what is the risk and why everything is changing. But this is not what the people are helping.

Wouldn't many traders just come back and say, oh, well, whether it's low volatility or high volatility, as long as you have your stop losses in, it should be the same, right? I mean, why does it matter? I'm protected with my stop loss order, right? Stupid. Stupid. For example, okay, so in high volatility, you have your normal stop loss.

Let's say normally if you your stop loss will be hit in if you'll be wrong in 10 minutes, 15 minutes, depend on your trading style. But on high volatility, it can be hit in one minute.

And there's the question, do you trade in your normal style with your risk approach and you get hit in one minute very fast? And if you was hitting first time, then you will go again. You will hit again. You will go in again. And then the mind comes into play. What is the mind telling you? You say, no, that's impossible. What's going on? And you're taking bigger size because you weren't taking your losers back. And then, boom, it's happened. You blow up.

I see. So are you saying that during periods of high volatility, when a trader gets stopped out easily and quickly, that there can easily be the tendency for them to maybe want to revenge trade to get back to recoup their losses? Yes. So I was observing on the NQ during the high volatility period.

Then one candle have an average one minute or two minute timeframe from 100 points. That's crazy. So basically you're putting the trigger and you can imitate in very good profits or you're losing. So that's something what is really bad. So if you're trading your normal size, that's why it would be better to teach the new ones. Hey, if you see the VIXs on level like this,

Take care of your risk management. Don't trade your normal position size. If you're trading normally the ES, let's say two contracts, go into MES or go into the ETFs or take a step back and wait maybe one week before everything becomes calm. Because the risk is too big. You can battle on this, but there's a high chance that you're taking stupid losses.

Mm-hmm. But wouldn't some technicians, people who just follow the charts, argue, well, that's not a problem. I mean, whether it's high volatility or low volatility, you can read everything in the chart and, you know, I'll get close to the bottom and I'll buy there and go long. What's there to worry about? We could just follow your indicators, right? Yeah. So the only thing where you should be worried about is the average candle.

So let's say, so the normal average true range, if we're speaking about the ATR, let's talk about the ES on the five minute would be between five and 10. So nothing is big, nothing is crazy, everything is fine. But now we have an average true range of 50 points.

or 60 points. That's crazy. That means your risk level is now 10x. It's possible that you can make 10x more profits, but it's also possible that you can make 10x faster losing. And if you're not aware of this, if you don't know it because you have not experienced something like this, think about what happened on Corona or when we're getting the financial crisis, how fast everything was going.

It was really fast. If you were not acting fast enough, you were in trouble. And that's something that we were seeing in the last few days. Everything becomes normal, but the few days, it was really crazy. And so many people losing money and so many people

Having now going back to work was before maybe full-time traders. They have now to go into work because they're losing so much money. Yes. Have you met any people like that? I was talking to some people. They was really surprised about this.

Chat with Traders is sponsored by Plus500. Trading futures might sound complicated, but here's the thing. Everyone starts somewhere. Plus500 Futures could be your first step. With Plus500's powerful platform, you can access a wide range of markets. S&P 500, NASDAQ, Bitcoin, natural gas, forex, metals, crypto, and more all in one place.

The platform is simple, intuitive, and mobile-friendly, so you can trade from anywhere, anytime. Open your account with Plus 500 and start trading with as little as $100. You don't want to risk even a penny. I understand. Plus 500 offers an unlimited...

risk-free demo account packed with real charts and tools to help you practice and build confidence before jumping in with real money. With over 20 years of experience and over 30 million global customers, Plus 500 is your trusted gateway to the futures market. Visit us.plus500.com to learn more. Trading in futures involves the risk of loss and is not suitable for everyone. Not all applicants will qualify.

Hey, I got a great update from Trade the Pool. Now it's even easier to get funded. As you know, Trade the Pool built a unique program to evaluate stock traders like yourself and provide you with the company's funds to trade with. It's real shares and you no longer need to worry about the PDT rule. But that's not all. Trade the Pool has introduced a new tier with

$20,000 in buying power, making it easier to pass the evaluation and speeding up the process of getting funded much faster. You don't want to miss this opportunity.

This episode is brought to you by WorldID. Ever missed out on concert tickets because of bots? WorldID is a digital identity that anonymously proves you are a unique human online. It's like a priority lane for humans in the age of AI. You can easily and privately prove you are a human online and access things only humans should, like event tickets, dating apps, financial services, and video games. Join millions of humans across more than 160 countries and get your free WorldID by visiting world.org.

Because what the people are doing is maybe they're not looking to the VIX. So if you're trading the ES, you have not side by side your ES chart and the VIX chart and see what's going on on the VIX. So you're not possible not be aware or you listen to something on X or on YouTube or on CNBC, whatever. And they're speaking about the VIX, but they're speaking this in so much

How complicated stuff that people not follow this. They say, ah, let's talk. Are they talking about this? Who cares about? Whoa, whoa, whoa. It's really important for you to know it. Because if CNBC would say to the people, take care of, there must be a better risk management for you. You can lose faster money. They will not do this. Why? There's some reason why they don't do it.

And that's something where we all be guilty to not teach the people in simple stuff what is the meaning behind. What is the meaning when the VIX goes crazy to 50 or 60 or 70? What's the meaning? And also, if you see people talking about trading strategies, they're making this so hard, complicated that you cannot follow this. So basically...

When we're talking about some trading strategy and what people want to see, hey, when I should be go short, when I should be go long, when I should be getting out of the market. And they want this in a really simple approach, like a five-year-old son or an 80-year-old grandma. They want only know, hey, when I should be pulling my trigger short, long, and when I should be getting out of the market.

That's what the people want. Like telling them, hey, if you see A, then you can go long. If you see B, then you can go short. If you see C, be neutral.

And then have backtest data where you can say, okay, this is based on backtest data. Most of the time, if A is coming up, it's a good opportunity to go long and I explain you why. And this is something what I'm doing also. So that's something what I miss. And this is also what I'm teaching when I be live on YouTube for MentorQ about options data and all this stuff. I simplify everything that everyone can follow this. It's

For me, the options work. I'm not understanding the options work, but I know how I can leverage based on the options data. This doesn't mean that I must be understand options, but I know exactly how you can use this as futures trading or as a stock trader, not as an options trader. Options trading is completely different. So that's something what I mean. Give them really simple approach, help the people outside. And that's the big goal I think everyone should do.

Why do you think it is that the financial media, when they talk about the high VIX, why don't they teach traders and their listeners on, oh, we make sure you do this and don't do that. Here's what the high VIX means and and position sizing and all that. I mean, you would think it would be simple enough for them to explain this. Right. Why do you think they don't share that?

Okay, the other question. So because I don't want to bring Shetford Traders into trouble. We can also speak about the casino. When we go to Las Vegas, why the casino owners don't tell us if he was making some good profits, go away and not play again. Why they don't teach us this? Because at the end, they will win. They were making his money no matter what.

and now come back to CNBC, why they should do this. So who supports CNBC? Look into who is the owner from CNBC, who supports CNBC? Did they have some interest in teaching you what you should do when they make their money? So basically, there's no interest.

Uh-huh. So the traders who say got hurt recently, just within the last number of weeks with a high volatility, in your experience, are the vast majority of these traders pretty new traders that weren't around during the COVID crash that also had high volatility? It's mixed. So they are new traders. They are experienced traders. People will forget.

And most of the time, I think it's also lack of education. So did the people doing really his homework, let's say invest something into become educated. So let's say read something. We can make it really simple. So every trader outside can make it so simple as possible. If I'm not understand something what other people saying, you can use Chetchy PT.

You can say, you put in what they're talking about, give them only some topic and then say to ChatGPT, hey, ChatGPT, please explain this to me in a simple and easy language. And then, hey, give me some example who's maybe not training so that I can understand this better. And then they give you some storytelling information. And then you say, oh, now I'm understanding this. Why no one was teaching me like this? So simple.

Why there must be everything coded that no one is understanding. And that's something what I'm thinking like education, it's the part of you. But for us who have maybe communities or who I say a little bit influencers or who have some products, product owners or prop firms, think about why you're making your product not a little bit easier. Why you're not explain a little bit more

Why you not simplify your trading approach that everyone can follow this? And if I can say something, I can shout out something. And this is SMB Capital. SMB Capital and Bella, you know Bella. He was many times here.

They make this also really simple for the people to understand trading strategies, what they're using on the trading desk. And this is something when I talk to people, hey, where you was learning trading? Yeah, I was watching YouTube. And if they're talking about S&P Capital, everyone knows S&P Capital. And why? Because they explain it so easy that everyone can understand this.

And that's something what we all have to follow. And that's so crazy. Why we don't do this? Because people won't sell online courses. People won't sell overpriced products. People won't sell mentorships.

And then you're buying the online course and you're thinking bullshit. They're talking bullshit because they don't know something. So basically. So go into that more. I mean, to give them a potential benefit of the doubt, couldn't we say, well, heck, I mean, how do we really know that what they're peddling is bullshit? Like what is it that they communicate to?

is nonsense. And how would a viewer know the difference between a channel that is communicating true facts and those who are total exaggerations? Really simple. Really simple. So before you buying some online course, buying some mentorship, ask the people for a verified track record.

where they trade his own money, not prop for money where they have certificates or other accounts. No, I want to see that they're trading his own capital. And then that they're doing this for minimum five years. So because why I'm asking for five years?

Because then I see how they're reacting on bad times. Everyone can post, hey, I have a Ferrari. I have a, I don't know, whatever car. I have this, I have this. But this is something what I don't want to see. I want to see how you was reacting on bad times when you wasn't drawn on from 10%, 20%. What you was doing, what was your approach? And also I want to see...

that what you're teaching me, that you're doing this on your own end. Not like, hey, I'm teaching you this, but I give a shit about this. I don't do this. So tell us, what's wrong with having a verified track record from a prop firm? What is the difference, say, trading with a prop firm versus trading on your own? So basically, I will never bullshit any prop firm. Never. But...

What I really don't like is people asking about mentorship, if people are asking about online courses. So you know it also, Ian. So you can buy a challenge for, I don't know, $50. You get an account from 100K for futures and maybe you will lose the first challenge. Correct? So that's maybe possible the first step. You lose.

And then you take again the challenge, you lose. So basically now you're having losing time. And then you're getting a funded account. You lose your funded account. And then maybe you have to start the challenge again and again and again. And it takes you maybe, I don't know, two months, three months, four months, five months to the first payout. And then they're showing you, hey, I have now the certificate.

I'd be a good trader. No, Shem. If you would do this, what you're doing on the prop firms, on your real account, you will be broke because you get maybe $10,000 payout, but you was losing before $30,000. Because on all the accounts, what you're blowing up. So basically, you're not an even trader. You're losing trade. And that's why I want to see that's a trading his own capital.

because you were never doing some bullshit like this with your own capital. So are you saying that by trading your own capital, you will be more careful or you'll do something, your habits will be different than you will be with a prop firm? Oh yeah, please explain. Yeah, 100%. I can give you an example. Yes. There's some really good friend of me and Tessa knows him also.

I will not name him. It would be unfair. But let's talk about some person. So this person was invested for, I don't know, one year or the last year or the last two years, over $50,000 in challenges for programs. Activation fees, challenges. And he was blowing up.

I don't care. Let's say minimum 50 times or 60 times. He was losing an immense amount of money. So on the prop film, so on the

trading simulation. He was losing big amounts, but he gained experience. I know he gained experience. And now he after two years, he's profitable and he has regular payouts like 3000, 5000, 10,000. Now he got it. Nothing is wrong with this. But if you want doing this on your own private account and I want to see your track record from the last five years,

And I would see that you're losing before maybe 1 million. And don't get me wrong. And now you're getting a payout from, I don't know, 20,000, 30,000 US dollars. I will not take you seriously. Because you're in debt for, I don't know, it's a big debt. So you're not break even. And this is something what I don't like. But this doesn't mean that they're not experienced.

But for me, they don't qualify for mentorship or buy or selling courses. So that's why I like, for example, Bella from SMB Capital or the other crews from SMB Capital. So they're dealing with real investor capital, with real money. They're doing this every single day.

and they have strong rules, they cannot do this. So and if they having a verified track record, yes, they have a verified track record. And this is a big difference if you're trading with real money on real market condition, and that's really real money or you're trading for a prop account where 90% of the time where you're trading with simulation, it's not real money, it's you trading a trade simulator.

And you will tell me you was making money on a trading simulator, but you have to go into the real market, put on real money, put on your money and tell me that you're making no money. Or maybe if you have not money, maybe some family, like looking to my story, I was using family money. I go all in. So basically I was not battling on some trading simulator. I was directly going in the market, no matter what.

And that's putting real money in the market. And that's something what is completely different. You know, why does it matter? I mean, as long as you're earning money, whether it's on your own account or in the prop firm account, isn't it just, I mean, it's just another different way of making money, right? I mean, if, if,

You have a chance to, say, trade with a prop firm money and you get to use their money. So, hey, at least I'm not really risking much of my own money and I get this extra kind of leverage, so to speak. Isn't that kind of a positive thing? And wouldn't the prop firms actually want you to do well? And so if you fail, say, the first challenge or something, they'd have all this education and help you out so that you can improve. Don't they want you to be successful?

Oh, that's a good question. I think we have to make a really difference between a real prop desk. A real prop desk for me is like SMB Capital, for example. There are also other ones or educational firms. So basically, they are not real prop desks. They are only education companies. And if you will be asked them, hey, you are a real prop desk, they will say, no, we are educational.

So we're helping you to grow experience without risking your money. Go into the fine prints. You will see it. And the question what you're asking me is, let me rephrase the question. So if we have some problem on our heart. Yeah. So there's some doctor. He was never making any operation. He was only simulators.

on roboters and everything like this for 10 years. And he's very successful with this. And then you have the other doctor who's maybe 10 years operation on real human. Who will trust more? The guy who was making this robots or on the humans? I think the answer is the guy who making the operation on humans, correct? And it's the same with this. It's exactly the same.

Is that because there's the quality of putting your own money on the line? Does it make you learn faster? Because psychology, I imagine psychology is a huge part of this, right? So we have also to think about this. So people on the prop firms, if they get funded, if they're getting the payouts, like say they're getting the payout from $10,000 US dollars,

How often do they get the 10,000 consistently? Did they get consistency, the 10,000 month by month by month? No, mostly not. With the same account number. Don't get me wrong. So basically, they get one payout. If they're lucky, they get the next. If they're really super good, they're getting the next payout. And then, boom, they have a blowout.

and they will lose that account and they will restart again, starting the challenge, going through the same process and again. So you will not do this on your real account. You are not doing so risky approach. You can do risky approach if you be really experienced, if you have enough capital, if you have enough profits. So using the profits what you make and invest this. But this is something I cannot take it seriously.

They are really experienced. Don't get me wrong. And they are really good traders. But it makes a huge difference to be a real trader or a prop from a trader or an educational trader who came from the trading simulation. And there was also some interview where I was learning from someone else. He was saying, okay, if you're working on a real prop desk,

So you become maybe a really professional trader in two years if you're working full time with us because we're teaching you all what you need. We're helping you. We have the education. We have the mentors around you and you sitting right and left there sits some experienced trader around you. You're sitting on a real trading floor. That's completely different. But if you're sitting home, you're getting maybe no education. You're getting a little community.

And maybe there's some live stream where other traders are talking about something. How you can grow like some real prop trader in two years as a professional? That's impossible. You need four or five years. But what the most guys are doing, they have two payouts, three payouts. Then they're using the certificate and selling courses. And new traders falling into the trap, buying the courses.

And they develop bad habits. That's stupid. We should protect the people for this. Don't get me wrong. Really, don't get me wrong. Sometimes I'm also guilty on my end. Sometimes I'm not teaching really good. I can't teach this much better. I know it. But I'm thinking I make a really good job to simplify everything.

And that's something what I think is the key. Simplify trading for everyone. If you be in prop trader, all right. If you be coming from some educational firm and you're trading on SIM accounts,

Why not going into the communities and teach them how you become successful, what you're observing and looking for other people's feedback and grow as a trader and enjoy it. And then maybe if you're having enough profits from the prop firms, why are you not using your money and put this in a real money account and trade with the real money account for, I don't know, six months, one year, and then you can say, hey, I'm the best.

I don't need any more of this. And people saying, boy, I should get back from the prop firms. Why not? Because you have a profit split. You give back 10% or 20% from your profits. Why you should do this?

If you're a good trader with so good payouts, you can fund your own account and you can trade without rules from other ones. You can write all anytime and you have no profit share anymore. If you're making every month 100k, there's no reason anymore for this. That's my opinion.

Yeah. Um, in our first interview a couple of years ago, um, you described yourself as an intuitive style of trader. And I'm just curious, how have you been able to, uh, teach the people that you've, uh, traders that you've interacted with? How do you teach them to trade? Is your style of trading difficult to teach and have you, has your style, uh,

been modified over the years as you've interacted with others? You know, because some people are scalpers, some are day traders, some are, you know, swing traders. How do you teach them? Okay, that's a really good question. So most of the time, my teaching is more like sharing my experience. So if people coming to me, and by the way, I never taking any money from them,

If I'm doing mentorship, I'm doing this for free. That's something what I'm doing. The only thing what I'm asking for is for a donation.

So basically, if you say, okay, you want mentorship, I will say, okay, I give you my time, but that I know that you take it seriously. I want that you donate, I don't know, 400 West to some social project. And if you don't have this, then we can make a deal. So I don't want this. I don't need it. But I'm not doing this mentorship anymore. But this was something what I was doing in the past.

But when I'm teaching them and my trading approach is not teachable for other people, 100%, but people coming to

Why is that? Why is it not teachable? Oh, because, well, I'm really instinctible. So if I see something, boom, I take it. And if people come into me and they have struggle, then we're talking about this. I let the people explain, okay, why he was going into the trade, what was going on, what you were seeing on your shot, and what trading setup you like and all this stuff. I ask them many, many questions.

And then I get the feeling about this, like the same feeling about the market. I get first a feeling about the person who trades because there's a big difference if someone is an engineer or someone is a sales guy because they have different mindset. They're thinking on a different way. So that's something what I want figuring out first. Who's the person? Where are they coming from?

What is their business? Because they have different mindsets. They're thinking completely in a different way. And then teaching them what I see based on my experience. If I would view what I was doing and why this makes maybe sense based on my point of view with my experience. And then let's connect the dots together.

Because I'm not a teacher. I'm not a coach. I'm not teaching you how to make the goods. I guide you. That's the difference. I will guide you. I will make maybe visible what you're not seeing.

And that's the big difference. I will not teach you how to trade. I want that you let me know what you're doing at the moment, what is good, what is bad. And then with my experience, I will guide you. I will show you maybe something what you was not seeing or what could be possible, the missing puzzle for you that you can make in the next step as a trader.

That's basically what I'm doing. This is what I'm understanding about mentorship. Don't teach them something. Help them, guide them with your experience. And that's it. Uh-huh. Can you share with us some examples of the challenges that the traders, different types of traders have shared with you and how you guided them? Okay.

Let's talk about really simple about two different people. So one people is they say, hey, I'm losing always in the morning and it's so hard to bring back my losers over the day. Okay. So what was happened? Why are you losing all the morning? Let's talk about this. So then maybe you have nine to five job. You'll be stressed.

So, and I don't know, something was happened on your side. What was happened with you? Why are you taking the losses? What was trigger you? What was trigger you to go into the market? So that's something what we have to find out first. What was trigger you to go into the market? Do you was seeing something on the chart? Do you have a trading plan? By the way, do you have a trading plan? Was this your A plus setup? Was there something wrong?

that was reasonable for you to go into the market? Or was this, hey, I have to trade. Now I'm coming back from my job. I sit there after five minutes, boom, and I will pull the trigger because I want financial free. Stupid. So that's now how it works. So then I can guide them and can say, hey, so first we have to work on your timeframe.

Is the morning the right time frame for you? So let's talk about it. He's a European person. He has a 9 to 5 job. After the job, he came to the market. It's American time. It's not European morning. Different times. And he comes back. Is this the right time frame for you to trade? Because you're telling me every morning you're taking losses. So why should we not change maybe the time frame for you? Why not...

After you're coming back from the job, going first into the gym, reading some book, taking some meditation, doing some other stuff, I'm down.

And then with a clear mind, taking maybe 15 minutes, read the news, see what's going on on the chart, wait a little bit, define some really good trading strategy, risk management, what you will follow, and define what you want to see on the chart before you're triggering something.

and then execute based on this. So that's sometimes a really big mind shift for the people because they're never thinking about this. Hey, it's the wrong timeframe. Or I was triggered because of my job. My boss was stressed me out. My wife stressed me out. My kids stressed me out. I'm stressed because I have to make some money.

That's something where people, where we're often dealing with. Find out first the triggers. Find out, is this the real timeframe? Third, do you trading really your A-plus setups? You follow your trading rules. For people, it's so hard to be disciplined and follow the rules. And then, why? Why? Why is that? It's really hard. Why is this?

So I think it's because they have a lack of discipline in this real life and how you can be having discipline in the market if you have no discipline in your daily life. And then now, why some people taking drugs? Why some people taking alcohol? Why some people not wake up when

at 6:00 AM and they already, why some people not taking cold showers? Because it's healthy. Why are people not eating healthy foods? Why are they drinking Coke, Cola? Why are they drinking? I don't know, whatever. Why are people eating sugar? People know everything. Why you should do this? Why you should not do this? They say they don't care about this. They give a shit about this. And now you came with the mindset in the market.

And now ask me why do people are not disciplined? I don't know. Well, so how often do you encounter traders who say, learn a lesson in a particular market regime, like a particular type of market, and then, you know,

And then time goes by and then they forget that or they ignore the lessons that they learned in the past. Like for example, during the COVID time when we had that huge drop and the VIX goes up and they learn all about volatility. And then some years later, things calm down. And how frequent have you found where traders forget the lessons they've learned in the past or discount them and think, well, maybe this time it's different?

Really good question. I think everyone is guilty. Me also. We can take lessons every single day from the market. And we find something where we exactly know, oh, stupid, why I'm doing this.

So I give you some example from my trading. So I was talking to my people, "Hey, I'm not taking any more and take profit. I have only the hard stop loss, but no more and take profit." Because why? When I haven't taken profit and I get a really good candle, news candle based on Donald Trump, based on terrorist news, the market can go crazy and we can go crazy to the upside.

and I will not be the stupid one who haven't take profit there and I'm getting out of the market and I missed the whole Cannibal to the upside. That's completely stupid and this is something where I have no more take profits there because there's always opportunity every single day in the market that this could be happened and why I'm be guilty. So yesterday

Stupid enough, I was making and take profit. I don't know why I was making and take profit. And then we get in a news scandal and boom, I missed the take profit because my take profit was hitting there. So it was completely stupid. Well, it sounded like then you made money on the trade, but not nearly as much as you could have because of your conservative nature. The only thing was why I wasn't following my own rules.

So I know it exactly. So what you were saying, hey, people maybe was learning the lessons through COVID and they know it, but they're not following this anymore. And this is why I think people never request or they should do it and asking every trading session what I was learning today. What was my biggest lesson for today? How I can become 1% better next day. Atomic habits.

building habits that you can become a much better trader. And we should ask ourselves this any single day. What was my biggest lesson? How I can improve for next day? What is my goal for tomorrow? What I want to see for myself tomorrow? How I should be performed? And if I was making money, I don't care about this anymore. But for me, it's pissed me really off that I'm not following my rule because I know exactly that I wasn't following this.

Uh-huh. So is it then a good idea then to have daily reminders and daily review of our strategy, our discipline, because it is so easy to forget or let it slide? Personally, I think review every single day, take out the big lesson,

Write this down and for everything, rule what you was not following, take extreme ownership. Ask yourself, hey, why I was not following this? So without bullshitting you, like be objective. Okay, because something like this was happened, something like this was happened, something like this was happened. Okay. And then how you can improve the next time that this will be not happen again.

All right, so my kids are noisy in the background. Okay, what I have to do the next time, make sure that my kids having some fun and I can trade and they will not interrupt me. So, and then I make sure that this will be not happened again. So taking extreme ownership for everything, what you're doing in trading and there's the book, Extreme Ownership. I can give this as really advice, friendly advice, reading the book, Extreme Ownership, reading the book, Atomic Habits,

And do this every single day. And then you will grow automatically as a trader. If you follow this, what is in the book, you will grow as a trader automatically. And it saves you, I don't know, $5,000, $10,000 for mentorship sessions.

Well, what about for the traders who say that, well, I was following my rule, but I discovered through the trading process during the day that my rule is actually not very good. And I can learn on the fly and adjust it because I'm always looking to improve my rules. And that's why I didn't follow my old rules.

rules because they didn't look good at the time. And I'm creating a new rule that's even better, right? Perfect. You can now ask yourself, okay, why is this better? So not talking about always about the bad things, talking about the good stuff. Hey, why I was doing this, what I was seeing, because this is sharpening your focus for the next time. If you'll be good to know exactly why you were seeing something.

And then if this happened again the next time, "Ah, yeah, I know. This was the last time. Now I can maybe possibly doing the same and I can change my strategy or something like this." Also ask yourself, "Okay, what I was seeing, what was triggering me, that I was changing now my trading strategy and it was good, by the way. And how I can use this experience, what I was growing now,

for the next time. And then you can develop also some risk management strategy. Okay, if I see something like this in the future and I know exactly that this what I was learning today should be now taking place, I will do it. So you have a new rule basically. So you can develop something completely new for you. You can grow as a trader. That's what I mean. Become every day 1% better as a trader.

But do you follow this? You really doing this become 1% better? People talking to me how I can become 1% better as a trader. On my P&L? On my money? No, on your experience. Because there's every day some lessons in the market or the lessons on your trades. Find the lessons looking and searching for the golden nuggets. Write this down and prove about this. That's your experience where you grow.

And if you don't build experience, how you can grow as a trader. I will share this with you. There was one story when someone was telling to me, he was going into... Now let's give the cashier some little bullshit. So a woman, he was 20 years and she's a cashier for a big supermarket. And the guy was going into the supermarket and

I was going now in the supermarket every single day to buy something there for 20 years. And the woman is working also there. And she's now 40. And she's not doing something else as doing the cashier job. Boom, tick, tick, tick. 20 US dollars, tick, tick, tick. 30 US dollars, tick, tick, tick. She is dying because she's never improved on his business career. She makes the same job twice.

All the day, she's dying. And this is something what we as traders should not doing. We should not die. We should be improved. We should not making the mistake like what the cashier is doing. It's not about, sorry, I'm not bullshitting cashiers, but it's only an example.

But they're dying. And this is something we as traders should not do. We should not die. So if we're doing every single day all the same stuff, we're dying. We need some new stuff to grow. We need some new lessons to grow. And we don't want to be the lesson. What is the biggest lesson for traders? And they wake up and they say, oh, what the fuck is going on?

Ian, tell me, when they're taking this big loss, they say, oh, what's going on? Why am I taking this huge loss? And then they wake up and they grow as a trader because now they're looking into the trades. What has happened? Why am I taking the losses?

But why are you not doing this every single day? Asking you what has happened today? How can I take some lessons about this? How can I become tomorrow better? That's the single stuff. We should not die as traders. We should be becoming light for other traders to be teaching us our experience. Hey, that you can say to other traders, hey, I was going through this

volatility and I was learning something like this. And here are my notes. And then you can ask the other people, hey, do you have the same experience? You was getting the same experience like me? And if yes, what you was learning, what you was observing, and then you talk together and you see the crazy, you have the same experience, you have a different view on this, I have a different view on this, and now we can change our mind and we can grow again.

That's when we're not dying, when we grow as a trader. And that's the part where people are missing. Then we come back to the communities. But in the communities, there's sometimes some big shit that people posting only the P&L, the charts, the trade, what they take. But there's nothing interactive that they can say, hey, I was taking this experience today. I will share this with you. That's my lessons for today. If have someone else the same experience and if yes,

what they were learning and maybe you will share this with me.

Excuse the last interruption here. This is Tessa. We hope you're enjoying this episode so far. If you love the podcast, please give Chat with Traders the best review you can on whatever platform you're listening from. This will help us to keep the episodes coming. Also, if you haven't subscribed to our email list, please hop on to chatwithtraders.com and click on subscribe so we can keep you posted of information that may be of importance. Thank you. Now back to the chat with our guest.

Would you be able to share a story, an example of someone that you've mentored who became successful? Yeah. Please do. From the Shedwith Traders community. We have really good traders in the Shedwith Traders community, but also Tessa knows and you also, Ian, many traders giving up. Why are they giving up?

because it's the timeframe, because it's the wrong time at the moment. They don't give so much time. And then there are other traders. It's only a handful of traders. And I have three traders.

who was going through all the stupid ups and downs in the market and they are now really successful. The one guy who I tell you was investing the 30, 50K in the platform world and taking now every single day some payouts.

from the pro firms. He was someone who I was making accountability sessions with him. We starting and meeting us together in the Shedwith Traders community. He was meeting us every single Monday. He was speaking, okay, what he was learning. He was always talking about what he was learning this week, how you can become better and how we can improve and how I can become accountability for next week. What's your goals? He was talking about this every single week.

And after the Shared with Traders community, we were always in contact. I was mentoring him. I was giving him everything what I'm seeing. He was talking to me what he's seeing. And this is one of the best examples. He goes through so hard times. I love him. It's crazy. And now he's taking every single day some pills. And there's also some other guys.

He was giving me feedback today in the live trading room. He says, hey, I have the last few weeks, really bad days. And he was showing his bank account statement. And then he say, hey, now I having few good weeks because of you guys. Because first we teach them patience. Don't get triggered from the market. Trade only when you see something. This is your A plus setup.

So we request them. So in the live training session, of course, you can look over our shoulders, how we trade, but I'm not the guy who is the clown who will teach you how I'm training. No, this is something where I don't want. You can go to YouTube. There are so many live training sessions. I want more giving you guidance and say, hey, I see this and let's talk about what you see. You get open mind and you can talk to me.

And you say, hey, I've seen this. What do you think about? Oh, nice. Okay, I see this. And then, hey, remind the people, hey, be patient. You have not to go into the market if you don't see it. It's good. And if you're taking losses, take a walk to remind the people because people need this. They need a reminder. They need sugar. And they need the pressure. That's what I like.

A couple of years ago, when I asked you about your future goals, what would you like to do? And you mentioned back then that you would love to become a big hedge fund manager and move to the US. And as the time has evolved, tell us how have your desires and plans changed over the last number of years? That's pretty good. So right away, I get my green card for America.

So that's really great. I'm really honored about this. I was working so many years to get this. Now I get this. Yeah, so that's basically my open door for investor capital. Why I want the Green Cat? Because to have access to much more capital, to get the next step into becoming a really good hedge fund.

I need capital. But you don't get this if you're not getting the U.S. citizenship or you don't live in the U.S. So there's no trust in people from Europe or otherwise. So they don't like it. And also, there are some rules in America. So you have to follow the rules. And also, you get more access to some licenses, basically from the SEC or something like this. What you don't get if you're not an American citizen or you don't have the green card.

So that's the next step. But where I'm most proud of it, and this is what I was telling you when we were meeting us together, it's like how the money is working for you. So the cash flow, that's something where I'm really proud of. So I have not to work anymore because I have my cash flow. Money is working for me. And that's something what I think traders are missing.

Because let's talk about this a little bit, maybe for two minutes or something like this. So if you be an experienced trader or maybe you've been into it and you have a really good payout, let's say from the problems that we was talking about, you get 10,000, 20,000. Don't invest this in lifestyle. Don't do this. Don't do this. Don't buy new cars. Don't buy this in commerce. Let the money work for you. What I mean, maybe think about...

buying some flats. We have so many refugees all over the world. They need apartments. And if you're an owner from an apartment, and for example, you're supporting some refugee, you don't get paid from the refugee, but you get paid from the government. That's secure money. So basically, you get every single month money from the government because there's living some refugees.

So cashflow, you let the money work for you. Buying an apartment, you rent this to the government or you rent this to some other one. And maybe you're starting with one apartment, but at the end you get 100 apartments. And then you get every single month, $1,000 for each apartment. Boom, boom, boom. And it's guaranteed for maybe 10 years. Hmm.

Are you doing this yourself? Oh, okay. And where? Where is this located? These flats with the refugees? I have some flats in Germany. I have flats in Spain. So...

And also there's some other businesses. So if you have apartments, some other businesses like also apartments, maybe their rent is only for a few hours. I will not go in deeper in this, but you can make good money. So you're not involved in this business, but you can make good money. So you're giving them something.

Or you're using this money to invest in some startup companies. So maybe there's some tech company where you really like having a good trading idea. Invest the money there. Give them and then let the money work for you and you get paid back. Of course, there's sometimes risk. Everything has some risk. Nothing is risk-free in life. But this is something...

where you have also no more pressure to get in the market because you get paid every single month like 10,000, 20,000, 30,000, 40,000, 50,000, 60,000, only from the cash flow what you get. And then you get this every single month without trading. And then you can say, okay, now I'm using the cash flow, what I was earned, and fund a next trading account. I'm trading now with the 60,000 what I earned today because I don't need it anymore.

And then let's have fun. So to wrap things up, what are you, anything that you're kind of looking forward to? Are you still, are you still mentoring? I have the mentor queue community. We have the pro community where we live trade every single day together with the people. I'm hosting this. That's at the moment what I'm doing mentorship. I will not doing this anymore.

Because one reason, as you know, I have two kids. So they become now more active. My son is now five years. He will be coming in summer six years. He needs more time for me. And I will not miss the time to see my kids growing. Because I mentor some people. This is something I don't want. Because my family first and then the other people. And also the big mentorship, what I can give is my son.

So other people like professional soccer players, basketball players, like Kobe Bryant. So the daddy from Kobe Bryant, what he was doing with his son, he was teaching him basketball because he was a former NBA player. And Kobe Bryant becomes also an NBA player. And this is something what I'm doing. I'm teaching now my son how to make money in the market. That's basically the mentorship, one-to-one mentorship what I give at the moment. It's to my son.

And this is why I was talking before, I get so pissed off because people don't make it so simple and explain it in a simple and easy way that other people understand this. And we have a big chance for making the world better. If we're making the trading and lessons, what we learned and simplify this really, really on an easy way,

That's amazing. Then so many people can learn from this. And I'm 100% sure, as I said before, we have the opportunity, every single trader, to take out some people, young kids from the street, from all the shit what's going on on the hoods, and bring them into the market. Fantastic, Patrick. Thank you very much for coming on Chat with Traders. You're welcome. Every time.

Thank you. How can our listeners reach you? Oh, okay. So I'm, as I said, you can find me on the MentorQ. Go to mentorq.com and there you will find me. And yeah, check it out. Fantastic. Fantastic. Thanks for coming on the show. Hey, thanks for still sticking around. Here's my little chat with Patrick.

Honestly, I really, we, Ian and I, but especially me, I really miss you. I miss you and Steve and you were in the live trading room and you were a driving force in the Chat with Traders community. And I hope someday that we can, you know, reopen that and have that back.

But it was so great because I learned, even though I trade so differently from you, I was re-watching some of the videos that you produced in the live trading room. And I was like, oh my, I learned so much from the mindset point of view. And it really made a difference in my trading in the past year. The performance may not show it yet, but the things that go behind it, the discipline and all that, it takes time. It just really takes time.

I really think that trading is a game of discipline more than anything else. And that's where I'm at. And I would say that you are my first like unofficial mentor just by, you know, being in the community. So thank you.

Yeah, thank you also. So it was me and my world. So the Shattered Traders community. And now you're in another community making another great impact. So now that's my world. I followed you and so I followed you to where you are with MentorQ now. So I'm part of that community too and I see the impact that you have there. So that's so awesome.

And I also want to make a comment about you teaching your son to trade. And he's only five years old. That's just so amazing. What a gift. And I want you to promise me that we will be the first ones to interview your son. No one else. It's more than yes, I think. Yeah. So, but, but I teach, I teach him also the mindset. So it's so, so important. So, because now he came to school, I teach him, Hey,

You know, don't listen to your teachers. That's bullshit. Because if you listen to me and you will become a really great trader, you can earn the school. You can pay the teachers. And with this mindset, you should go to the school. Hey, you know, my daddy tells me I can buy the school. I can pay you. So...

That's something also the mindset from the young kids. So it's so different. And if you're looking to all the professional athletes, how they're teaching his kids, they're teaching the same. They know exactly, hey, on one point, I will be like my dad. I will become the next Lionel Messi. I will become the next Michael Jordan. And I know it. And that's something what I'm doing.

You always give examples of like the, you know, the sports analogy with the pro athletes. And it's like, wow, it is so true. You know, remember, we have some Olympic weightlifter woman. We was interview her in the Shed with Traders community. And she was laughing because she said, why are you interviewing me? And then she was saying, yeah, that's completely right. Because at the end, it's the same mindset.

And she goes also through something where all traders go in truth. And I think you should not learn from traders about the mindset. You should learn from the athletes because they're teaching you a complete different view. And that's something what I'm doing. I do remember you talking about golfing as an example. Golf, yeah. Yeah, a great sport. Yeah.

Wow. And yes, so I, we will really love to interview your son. He doesn't have to be all grown up. He can be just, you know, in a few years, just for him to share a little bit from a little kid's point of view. It's just so awesome. And then you also, you and Steve also inspired me to start Trading Futures. So that's what I'm.

Getting into I'm still doing options. Don't get me wrong. I didn't. That's my main bread and butter. But I feel it's important to kind of like also find other markets to trade in. And so I'm dabbling into futures and I am using a prop firm for that. It's good.

So don't get me wrong. What I was talking in the interview, it has nothing wrong. So the only thing what I mean is completely wrong is if you be getting your first payout or the second payout and you're trying to teach people how to trade. That's stupid. You should not do this.

Because at the end, you're not a break-even trader. Yeah, I totally get what you were saying with Ian about, because you were talking more from an educator point of view. Those that you see a lot that have been educating, they use that term,

you know, that the payouts, they got a few payouts and they're like, okay, now I'm a certified, you know, I can teach now. And that's what you're saying is the problem. Yeah, go the next step. Use your payouts, fund your own capital and go in the market with your real account, get experience then, and then you will be able to

to teach something. And if you would be listening to Lance Brinstein, he would 100% agree with this. He is talking the same what I'm talking about. Right, right. And plus, you can't rely on the prop firms forever because who knows, they could be gone. I mean, how long is that going to last? We don't know, right? You can't rely on that as your forever business.

Yeah. And so I just want to say thank you. I'm so happy to see you. Miss you. Miss the members in our community at the time. Miss you and Steve. Yeah. So it's great to have you back on the show. Yeah. And I hope everyone could take out some golden nuggets from what I was talking about and maybe reflect on this. Maybe you would not be angry with

with most of the part, but maybe it gives you something where you can think about. You always have a different way of saying things. And that's why I think it's going to be so interesting. You always have a different way of expressing your views. And it's always so interesting, Patrick. Yeah, because the only thing what I want is...

People can hate me. People can love me. I give a shit about this. But if I be the person that you get so hard pissed off, then I know exactly something in your mind will be changed.

Yeah. And then I know, I know I got you. And now maybe I save you for some bullshit in the future. Or you rethink because you get so pissed. You rethink on the way to the work. Or if you're going to sleep, you think about why he's talking about this. That's pissed me off. But you think about what I'm talking to you. And then I'll be in your mind. And that's something what I want. Yeah. Yeah.

I give a shit about if you like this or not, but if I be on your mind and maybe I can change maybe some little tiny milli-percents on your thinking about trading, then I'm taking a really nice job. Agreed, agreed. Oh, by the way, the title. Are you okay with us titling it something? If you don't like it, that's okay, because I heard you say it. Quote, you said...

We should not die as traders. Perfect. Brief the market in and out and we should not die as a trader. Yeah, because when you said that, I was like, oh my God, bingo. That's our title.

Yeah, and Ian was shocked. His face was crazy. What is he talking about? I know. I was like, I love it. But it's really like this. So go into the cashiers, go into the room, and you will see the same cashier in five years. They will not grow as people. They're dying. Yeah. It's simple like this. We could have another topic on this, but some people are okay with that. Yeah, but that's nature. If you're not growing, you're dying. You're dying.

Yeah, so maybe the woman on the cashier desk is now 60 in years, but I would tell she's maybe only 21 because after 21, she was not growing, she's dying. I may be only 30 and not 42 because 10 years I was dying.

Patrick, help me not to die as a traitor. Oh, man, that's crazy. I think people will listen to this. Yeah, I love that title. Well, thank you for approving that. Have a great night and we'll be in touch. Thank you for doing this. Bye-bye.

You've reached the end of this episode of Chat with Traders. But rest assured, there are more episodes loaded with real market insight and zero hype on the way soon. So to stay updated with each great new release, subscribe to the podcast on iTunes. And we'd love it if you'd leave a rating and review. We'll catch you next time on Chat with Traders.