#73. Jenny Chen: Checklist For Love
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What's up, everybody? Welcome back to The Honest Drink. I'm Justin. Today is basically a Valentine's Day episode. And I'm fully aware that we're about a month late, but it's never too late to talk about love, is it? So in this one, we talk to our guest about what women want in a lover. We talk about the messiness of dating and getting into relationships. We talk about lust, marriage, true love. And perhaps most importantly, we talk about how if you're guided by some sort of

perfect checklist of what you're looking for in a boyfriend, girlfriend, husband, or wife. It can be deceiving, a waste of your time, and might cause you to miss opportunities to find someone you really like. Now, our returning guest is the owner of the Strike Muay Thai Kickboxing Gym in Shanghai. She is also the host of the Jenny and Ji Cooking Show. She also has her own new channel about lifestyle, travel, and language.

She's strong, she's independent, she's honest, and we almost have a fun time talking to her. This episode is hosted by Howie, Eric, and myself, so without further ado, please give it up for the one and only Jenny Chen. ♪♪♪

Hello! Are you speaking Italian? No! The beginning should just be us already clapping for ourselves. Yay! Just like applauding ourselves. Okay. Glenn Fittick, Project XX. Cheers! Cheers! Why is it XX? That's good. It is nice.

It's XX because this is a limited edition experimental series. Yeah, it's like an experiment that Glenn Fiddick did. Anyway, welcome back, Jenny. I'm very happy to be here again. I'm waiting for this moment about 10 months. 10 months. I am counting. Hey, you can come back anytime you want. You don't have to wait 10 months. No, I made

The first episode we did with you was very well received. That was a great episode. Yeah, a lot of people like it. Thank you. What have you been doing recently? Oh, I've been really busy recently. What have you been doing? Thinking about my life. Okay, I just started to open my own channel about cooking, Chinese food, and also just do the gym business.

Stupid gym business? Still? 还是很烦恼吗? 对啊,真的很多事情。 什么事情呢? 就经常有很多问题啊。 像比如说,对你最烦恼的问题是什么呢? 开一个 gym。 我觉得最烦恼的问题就是,你不能让每个人都开心。 就是你不能做到让每个人都开心。 那这个是做任何事都是有这个问题的。 Yeah, I know. 对。

Life lesson number one. That's true. So that's why I started something new. And I also just because, you know, two days ago was my birthday. Oh, happy birthday. You didn't even invite us. Because you guys are busy. Oh, shut up. You guys are busy. No, but this is true, I think.

It's because my birthday is actually pretty boring. It's just a dinner. I think you guys will get bored, but it's good because I know I'm going to be here very soon. So that's why. Okay, sure. Nice save. You'll come on the show to promote your channel, but we don't get to go to your birthday. I get it. I get it for me, but these two. That's just grill her this entire episode. So February 26th. Next year.

February 26th Yes 双鱼座 Yes Wow Okay 双鱼座 是双鱼座吗 Yes What did you do for Valentine's Day this year?

Oh, I didn't do anything. Of course. Okay. Seven. No, I listened to the episode. So I wasn't. Oh, yeah. Hold on. You're in a relationship now. Yes, I am. Last time you were on our show, you were single. I was single. Now you're in a relationship. Yes. And you didn't do anything for Valentine's Day? No, because. How dare you? No, no, because he has this restaurant business. So he have to be there when the holidays. But.

But I was there giving him a company. But we celebrate the next day. So I did, but it's not the... He has a restaurant. So the restaurant comes first before you. Yeah. I mean, which I 100% support. What kind of restaurant? Italian. Oh, okay. Surprise, surprise. So are you guys still doing that channel together? Yeah.

Eventually, not just me. I think he did the channel with me because he wanted to get me. Oh, so now that he's in a relationship with you. Yeah. You guys were hosting this channel before, right? Yes, we were like kind of business partner and we just worked together. What was it called again? Jenny and G? Yes. And it was a cooking show. Yes. And then you think he did this channel just to get you.

into a relationship with him? - I think 90%. - That's awesome, that's awesome, props to him. - But I tell him that thank you for doing this. I mean, if I'm the girl like me, I need this. - Hey, I give that a lot of props because that's being proactive and creative, right? - Yeah. - Well, look at the optics of this, right? I think I saw a couple of the, he's a handsome guy by the way, right?

Not my type. I told him, oh, you got surprised, right? Because he wasn't my type and I didn't know who I want. Yeah, it's the 面子 thing. Like no one, like no one, no Chinese girl will ever admit that like, oh, like we're their type. It's like, oh, 看了就不讨厌, that's it, right? Yeah, they only say that. But let's look at the optics of this. So like handsome Italian guy, you know, pretty Chinese girl, do a cooking show. Like, I mean, it's obvious what the guy's head's at. Yeah.

Like, it's so obvious. Like, if you were Italian and you had a pretty girl and you were trying to do a show together, unless you didn't like girls, pretty much you know the M.O. Especially for, you know... Well, okay. First of all, I just want to ask you a question. Well, not just you, Eric, but also Jenny here. So, basically...

What Eric just said, I think... I'm being an asshole. No, it's good. I like it. I think what Eric just said is, at least to us guys, is pretty obvious. But to a lot of girls, I feel like they always ask these questions like, how could that be? No way. It's purely for business or whatever, for your situation. They're like very naive. Very naive about it. But then we're like, are you kidding me? It's obvious. But do you think they're pretending to be naive? Like, 装傻?

I don't know. I think I wasn't know. But lately I found out. Because, you know, okay, so one year ago, I received some flowers. Before I do this show with him and I barely know him. And some secret guy sent me flowers with a card.

and I didn't know who. And then after I be with him, and he tell me it was him. Oh, so you had a secret admirer before. Yeah, I mean, right? Okay. That's a big plan. That's a little borderline stalker-ish. Big plan. But the thing is, like, every Italian chef or guy in China right now is like, fuck you, honest Drake. You're fucking on my group. Giving away all the secrets. Fuck you, Justin. I hate you. Fuck you, and fuck you, Eric. No, but actually... Whoa there, Eric. Nah. Whoa. Whoa.

He's always the one about like, let's not generalize, you know, let's not, let's not do it. You know, being very PC. Yeah.

And then sometimes he just breaks through. I like that. I love Italian people. I have a lot of good Italian friends. Good, good. But they all like Chinese girls. Yeah, it's true. Wait, so you guys don't do the show anymore? We don't. But actually, it's because we're both busy now. But actually, I was half-joking. Busy with each other. And no, we live together. Come on. Oh, is this where we're going? And then just... How do you say...

i think i think uh of course it wasn't 100 like he just want to get me and we have a show it's also because he think i'm a professional woman you know what i mean well you are yeah so i was i was very happy to do that but now i gotta continue to do the chinese food by myself but i'd love to do this with him again is he a by the way is he a great i mean is he a good chef

For me, it is. He is. It is. I'm sure he's a great chef. Because I watched a couple of segments. He's from Rome. Yeah. What's the name of his restaurant? Pochilino. Here in Shanghai. Oh, that's near your house. You know? Yeah, I've eaten there before. Is it good? It's across the street from my house. Is it good? It's not bad. Okay. When you've been there...

When last time you've been there? Okay. Now the food is way better. We should have dinner there sometime. Yeah, check it out. I've never had it before. Well, Ann went there and she liked the food. Okay. It's not bad. That's good. That's good. Okay. So while you're telling me all this, I'm thinking, because I'm trying to put myself in his shoes, right? And I'm thinking, okay, if I was single and I'm trying to woo a girl and I kind of went through all these kind of elaborate...

to kind of set it up, right? And like kind of increase my chances of spending time with her. Especially given today's culture, right? Well, at least in the Western culture right now, I would be a little bit worried about like, okay, how is she going to take it? Because from my angle, I'm doing all this. I think it's really romantic. I think it's romantic that I would go through

Through the lengths of trying to set up a video channel, a TV show, just to woo a girl and spend time with her, be a secret admirer, send her flowers. It's romantic. I think it's romantic, right? But you never know how the girl is going to take it. And different girls are going to take it different ways. And some girls might kind of be like, oh, creep, you know? Yeah. So you never know with that kind of stuff. It's a gamble. True, true.

Any thoughts about that? It really depends because I think there's also some guys try to do the same, but I was really aggressive because if you're not interested in this guy, you will be like, yes, like, are you perv or something? That's the key, right? That's the point. And I happen to say, okay, how we guys be together is I go to him in the end.

Okay, so what does that mean? So he did the whole thing. Yes. Like he set up the show or you did that, but he did not actually, he did not show any of the... Yes, never. He never made the first move.

So he kind of played it low-key. Super low-key. So he wasn't creepy. So he didn't show any of those signs. So he wasn't super obvious about it, right? Like, he's still like... Only he was respectful. Okay. But I can feel he loved me so much. I can feel. So that's why I was like, okay, I'll just... But there's one day the things just changed. The situation totally changed.

I was just, I was start to like, I have to see him. If I don't see him, my body is burning. It's my first time in my life happened to me like this. Body is burning with passion? Passion and the things that I really have to talk to him. You know, you guys know I'm always alone. Like I love to enjoy my time alone.

you know, just to be alone by myself all the time for so many years. But this time is just different. And I have to see him, I have to talk to him like every day.

Now you're the psycho. No, I'm kidding. Now you're the creep. I am the creep. You're the creep. So how did you, okay. Let's remind our listeners, for a lot of them who don't remember or didn't listen to the first episode, let's give some context here because you're saying you were really alone for a long time. You were single for how many years again? Seven. You were a single girl in Shanghai for seven years, right? Crazy. You're a young girl. You're a beautiful girl.

to be single here and kind of like just fend off all like the suitors is for seven years in Shanghai. And you were approached. It wasn't like no one approached you, right? That's got to be, yeah, you have to be actively fending people off, right? The problem is I'm telling you it's just those guys during the seven years. Yes, there's many guys and also some I liked it. I liked them, okay? But the problem is just, I'm sorry, right?

the problem is i think i don't feel the real love i don't feel they really love me but if you don't give people a chance how do you know that's true like i have the list of what kind of perfect man i want

All the lists, right? You have an actual list? I have like a... Everybody's got a list. Like an actual list? Like a physical list? In your mind. Also on my phone. Before I... On my phone. Really, I did... I bet Eric has in this notes. That's Eric's level, yeah. I'm writing it down. That's Eric's level of like sociopathy. Okay. Yes, but in the end, which is totally different. It's totally different.

Wait, so was that the first time you felt like, oh, there's something there, you had feelings for this person? I'm telling you, that's really strange. First eye, we ran into each other in the restaurant and I was eating and so they joined us. There's one second, I look at him, one second, something like, like the... 中文有没有说法? It's like the love at first sight kind of thing. 那个...

电流啊 电流 这是你第一次跟他见面的时候吗 Like electricity 应该如果准确来讲是第二次 OK 对 Electricity 你就有感觉 there's something there One 发电 发电 Two second Because I look at him And I was like No way Like no way Do you believe in love at first sight though? Do you guys believe in love at first sight? I never

No, I believe lust in first sight. Yeah. Not love at first sight. Yeah. So you don't believe in love at first sight? I don't. So what was it that you were feeling then, Jenny? Maybe it's lust. I'm the perv here, remember? Wait, what's lust in Chinese? I'm curious. Lust 应该就是... 哎哟,我中文不太好。 什么中文不太好? 你是不敢说是吗? 不是,我真的不知道怎么翻译。 Lust 就是...

你来反映。 是关于性的啦,就是关于那个就是身体,生理上的。 Lust 就是你想做爱嘛。 Oh,这个就... Let's sort of 简单,right? Let's just sort of 直接一点,right? Let's not dance around the issue here. Lust 就是想做爱嘛,right? Let's get to the point. Maybe, maybe. 就是你看到一个人,然后呢,你身体的反应是很激烈的。 我基本是没有这种情况的。 就是真的是没有这种情况,但是那一秒应该是的。

哈瑞是 like 我经常有 你经常有

男生很正常啦。 Let's go back to, not back, let's fast forward. How did you make the first move? Because you said you made the first move. I was really struggling. How do you say? I didn't want to because the single life was perfect. Okay, can I ask one question? Because I'm 不停地在那边打歌。 你说,你说。 你能听到吗? 可以,可以。 听不到啊。 I don't know why I eat too much, sorry. 没问题啊。

但是還好啦,沒有什麼。 You ate too much of the Italian food. No, I had a... It doesn't matter. Can we just cheers first? We're supposed to keep this short. We're being childish. 這個是... We're still trying to work on our partnership with Disney, so come on, guys. 可是你怎麼... How did you make the first move?

Okay, single life was amazing. So much freedom. 然後呢 What about single life do you love? Did you love? Freedom. No, because here's the thing. Like I feel for... Obviously 我也不知道 I don't know. Okay, but I'm guessing. 很多 local 的女生 就是 Chinese women here, young women

They might not, you know, I don't know. Do you think there's more and more young Chinese women that want to be single rather than to have to be in a relationship? I think it's because there's no woman in the world want to be single. This is what I really feel. But you did. Well, at least you say you did. I lied to myself.

- Okay, you lied to yourself. - Let's be honest here, right? - Of course, it's because I feel there's nobody really love me. That's why I've been single for so long. And I want someone who has able to understand me, but there's no one can really understand me. They cannot read me. I don't want to explain because if you meet the right person, you don't have to explain. - So deep down inside, you were not happy being single, even though you say it was perfect.

To be honest, I said perfect because I was happy too. I was happy because for me, I got nothing to lose. I'm just enjoying my life. And I was still young. So for me, I'm okay to be single in that age, you know. Okay. What about making the first move? Do you think more and more Chinese women are having the confidence to

Or more willing to make the first move to chase a man? I think a lot of girls doing that. Yeah? Mm-hmm. You see that? Like around you? Like your friends? I think so, yeah. Okay. I mean, why not? I know. I told you last time, remember? I said I did that before, so. I just feel like it's 比较少见。 Here. 可能就是你遇到女生男狗吧? 不一定,不一定。

日暴 I mean, but Justin, you haven't had, you know, like, you've been out of the game for about 30 years? I'm generalizing, but I'm just like, I'm guessing based off of like, you know, my previous experiences. But also it's like, I mean, 不是有个说法嘛,就是看你是从哪里来的, right? Like, for example, maybe it's like 东北人, they're more like, 这里是上海人嘛,对的。 我觉得跟地域其实还好,没有太多关系耶。

I think the times have really changed. Because when you were like, oh, there's a saying, right? And from the last show, you know, things have changed dramatically. Because you guys talked about like being an ABC in China and then like local guys, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Just from that conversation, like things have changed dramatically. And then when you mentioned the saying, all of a sudden this really old saying popped up in my head. It's really silly. It's like, 哪人不坏呢? Right?

Bly. Right? But that's like, now you say that and it's like, it feels so dated. It feels like it was from 10 years ago. Things have totally, we've just been out of the game. I've been out of the game for five years. You guys have been out. You counted? Five years. Yeah, yeah. I've been, I'm at,

I met my fiance in 2016, so almost five years. It's only been five years? Yeah, five years. And then you guys are even longer. So we can't really speak to it. She's been in the game up until 10 months ago or less. So she has more up-to-date view. But based on our conversations about how women perceive men from different countries and different places, that's a massive shift. So you have to imagine that this piece also changed as well. Kind of.

Well, let's talk about this. Let's in the spirit of kind of being a little more general, right? What do you think women in general are looking for in a man? What's on your list? Huh? Yeah. I'm telling you. Women want... This is the paid segment, by the way, for all you guys. We're going to have to... Okay. Women want, I think, probably everything from a man.

Everything. Everything is like, okay, so the perfect guy for a woman, okay, he got, you know, have a stable job, make money and pay everything and healthy, right? And also, even he's busy, he has to always spend time with you, like all the time. Yeah. You know? Carry your purse.

This for me, no. Thank you. And, you know, have sex every day. Every day? I think so. I think in general, no. Every day? Yeah, otherwise they complain. They complain? Yeah, I mean, in general. Boy, times have changed. 不可能的。 I think 我觉得是的。 Of course. 但是你觉得你代表所有,大部分的吗?

I'm not talking about myself. I'm talking about in general. Oh, you're not talking about in general. So this is what you hear from other girls? 怎么可能每一天啊? Okay, but how do you know? I think so. 怎么可能? 不要自己骗自己啦。 每一天你这样子不是很快就 like lose interest? See? This is a... So also...

Of course, that's a given. So where do you get that data point from, Jenny? Like, if it's not, we're not going to talk about you personally, because I think that's a very personal matter. But let's say that you've collected information from your friends or people you know. Like, how solid is that information? Like, every girl you know, they want, you know. Yeah, I don't know how true that is. Every day? Like, where do you get that information from? Who do you get it from? You can't back it up. My English.

secretly she's the one she's the one you're talking about you but I'm telling you in general girls really want this they just won't tell you they don't leave leave in the comments yeah we're gonna see we're gonna see the comments after this episode they don't want to stress you you know what I mean

So you just said that women want it. I'm just being honest here. At first you said, no guys, you don't want them to complain. But now you said it's for girls. For girls too. Do you think that applies to most women or just some women? I think maybe half-half.

I mean, I'm just, how do you say, 一個比喻。 不說一定 exactly so, but... 大部分還是什麼? Of course, 大部分。 你覺得大部分? Yeah, 不然的話愛會沒有吧? 愛跟性... 肯定是有關係的。 我覺得沒有性就沒有愛。 What? Of course. Ah, think about it. Interesting.

You can say it. No, because we always keep mixing up like the confusing the idea of lust and love. Right? A lot of times, you know, in let's say when talking with guy friends, right? You know, sometimes we'll chat and you'll have a friend who'll be like, oh, I love her. She's so amazing. She's so beautiful. They're saying that facetiously and jokingly. Yeah, but at the same time,

How many times have you had friends will go be like, dude, I'll do anything for that girl because she's so hot. You know what I mean? But do you think they truly mean that or just a saying? You know what guys say? I don't know. Okay. I don't know. I have certain people in my mind right now. I don't know. I think in the end of the day, the guy, the look of a woman is not the most important, of course. It's not. It's something about...

what's inside of her. - Yeah, you're talking from a female though right now. Okay, let's go back to the women's list though. So where does looks rank on the list? So you had, they have to be financially competent, provide, spend time with you, have sex with you every day, you know, whatever, blah, blah, blah, healthy. So how, where does appearance and being like good looking fall on the list? - I'm telling you, this, I also thought about it.

It's not about physically how he looks like. It's about the smell. Okay, you're so weird. Your list is so weird right now. Smile. No. No, the smell. Yes. Yes, I think so. It is. So you like guys who wear cologne? No, it's not about the perfume. No, it's the pheromones. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I wonder what pheromones is in Chinese. Okay, have you ever met a girl that... How do you know? You can't smell the pheromones. Like, you can't consciously smell it. But, okay, think about this. Have you ever met a woman that she's not... Like a natural smell. Her look is not your type. Okay, but you just feel so lost. You know what I mean? That's never happened to me. No, no, not to say. Really? Yeah, like, that's never happened to me. What about you? What is this?

信息表 信息数 我觉得 Maybe 信息数 Maybe you want to say 荷尔蒙吧 Okay 我来回答吧 Yeah Yes Like It's not like How someone looks doesn't 100% correlate to how much do you want them physically Yeah You can want someone physically but Maybe it's like Oh there's just something about her I can't really put my finger on it Yeah

I mean, to reply to you from me, yeah, I've met people in my past where maybe they were physically, in generally speaking, it's like, okay, it's okay. You know, just like a 还好吧, you know, not a 传统的美女 or whatever, but something about them.

you know but i thought i don't think it's just only about like pheromones or something like that i think it's just like overall like the aura that they bring out you know the way they sit the way they talk the way that's the cheats is that yeah in the last episode right their swagger this i think it's combination of that yeah it's hard to quantify well i think looks i think subconsciously there's a lot that goes into someone's appearance that we just don't

consciously recognize or want to necessarily give credit to or admit. Because everyone wants to be like, oh, looks aren't everything, looks aren't everything. We're better than that, right? But at the end of the day, like your looks are not, won't be the final deciding factor in terms of a long-term relationship, right?

But it will help you superficially get your foot in the door in the very first place. Right? Like if you approach somebody, whether you're a girl or a guy, and 你的样子就长得像他们喜欢的样子的话,

Right. Like it's so much easier for you to start a conversation or get to know them or or get their phone number, whatever it is. It's so much easier to get that foot in the door. And now what you do after that is will less and less depend on your looks and more depend on everything else that you mentioned. But that foot in the door in the first place, I think, is heavily because you don't know anything about a person. All you can do and judge is how they look.

At first. And that's a big, that goes a long way. I don't agree that goes a long way. Maybe it's just work in the beginning. No, no, I'm saying that goes a long way in the beginning. Like the beginning kind of foot in the door is a crucial step. Because if you don't pass that step, then forget about all the 后面的事情, you know? Because there is no other stuff if you can't get your foot in the door in the first place. It's like the 基本门槛. Yeah. But I think I want to add on to that. It's like, because...

I think you need to separate one is do they look 不管是男生女生, 多么帅啊, 多么美。 Right? It's just like, I think you need to at least 过一个关, like Eric just said, which is 能看下去。 You know what I mean? At the very least. It doesn't mean that they have to be 那么帅,那么美。 Why I say this is because my boyfriend wasn't my type at all. But...

It goes really good, no? 你的 type 是什么意思? He's not your type 你什么意思呢? What did you think your type was? It's maybe Asian 他不是亚洲人 He's not, he's Italian He's a foreigner Yeah I was surprised, no? I never thought about it You never dated a foreigner before? No Half, I don't know

I don't count that. It's like three Asian guys. We're just stumped. It's like you asked, did we ever have a moment with a guest where we just didn't know what to say? We're just kind of like... No. But I'm trying to say is the look doesn't really matter if...

You just, you don't, you never know. I think I understand. Maybe, let me paraphrase what you're saying. So basically, I mean, like they can't be like, 不能是丑八怪,对吧? 那不行啊。 But like looks will, it won't guarantee you anything. It could eliminate you, but it's not going to guarantee you anything. But it could eliminate you.

Right? So it's just one condition in there. It can make it easier. Yeah. And I want to clarify what I said. I don't mean looks as in you have to be super classically good looking. I don't think that matters as much. What I'm saying is every person has kind of like...

what they're looking for, their style, you know? So even if you're not looking, there's a lot of people out there that like, you're not good looking in the sense that like, maybe classically, we think you're good looking, right? But there's gonna be a bunch of people out there that kind of like the way you look, right? As long as you can pair up with somebody in terms of your appearance, 这个就是我喜欢的样子。 Even though 他不是一个帅的那种帅哥, like, you know, 明星啊,或者怎么样。

But he's like, 他就是我的菜。 He's like my type. 萝卜青菜各有所爱。 Yeah, exactly. What I'm trying to say is when you meet the right guy, when you meet the, let's say, a person that you truly love, you just never know how, what he or she looks like. Yeah, but I mean, if we talk like that, I think it's a little, it's not so controversial and it's,

You know, I think what we were saying before when we were being very specific is very controversial. It's like, I don't like this, I don't like that. But I have to tell you what I said, what women want from men. What I said, it's just, I'm talking about a dream. It's not reality. It was a dream that the women dream about those men. Who gave you that dream? Like, who gave women that dream? Yeah, where are you getting all this from? Myself. Okay.

No, I mean... Movies. But this is a real topic. Where did this dream come from? You know, this standard, the one you just described, for me, is like, from a girl's perspective, what should the most perfect guy look like? So like, where does that come from? Even what we find attractive, like how are we conditioned to feel what's attractive? Why do I ask this? Because guys, generalizing, guys are very... It's like, it's a very physical reaction to a lot of things. You know what I mean? Like biological reactions.

But like a lot of things you're saying were not biological. Well, it could be maybe if you really break it down. But you know what I mean? I understand. But this is what it is. I mean, that was what I wanted. You know what I mean? Because I deserve it. You know what I mean? You didn't want to settle. I think I deserve it. I don't know. Every girl want a perfect man. Every man maybe want a perfect woman if they could.

But do you think that's dangerous or that's unhealthy necessarily to have this perfect standard based off of all these criteria? It's like a checkbox. And then so every person you're meeting, you're kind of checking off a list instead of just maybe realizing maybe there's other great attributes about this person that you're not realizing because you're so focused on your own list. You're not even paying attention to other things that this person might

can bring. See, this is why I want to say it's just because this is my own experience. I was the kind of a girl living that kind of a dream that I want to kind of the guy like that. But how I really become so happy and so real about myself is when I throw away this list. Yes, I don't look at the list. I just follow my feelings. And I think that

I think it doesn't matter if he's, you know, if he's perfect. I mean, but this guy truly make me so happy and I never be so happy like this. You know what I mean? So you realized that what you really wanted was different than what you had on your list. Totally different. Yeah. Do you think that that had any, what impact or relationship do you think that had on the seven years that you didn't have a serious relationship, like this list, this concept?

Actually, it's also about myself. It's like because I never be real to any of them. Because I was so scared to be myself. I want to hide my, you know, chuedian. One day, they looked down at me. So I have to pretend I'm tough. And I am tough, but I don't have to be like that, you know. But I have to pretend that I'm kind of perfect. I try to be perfect.

So I wasn't happy for so many years. So now it's a time to be real. Interesting what you just said. It's like you try to be perfect. Yeah. And yet you're also projecting that perfect man in front of you that you're looking for. So it's like what you look into yourself is actually...

And your fear about yourself, about not being perfect, you project that onto the man and you're like, oh, I got to find a perfect man. Yeah. Do you know why I try to be perfect? Because I have to, I was thinking this way. I think, okay, I have to be prepared until I meet this perfect man. So I, at that time, I'm going to be a perfect woman so I can have... 我想问个东西, I want to ask something. It's still based off of this idea. Mm-hmm.

You can take from your list or not. Just react. Okay, I'm going to ask you a question. If you can name one thing that 你最讨厌的 Like a characteristic from a guy that you can't stand. A pet peeve. 最讨厌的一个点 Yeah, what would you say? 不忠诚 You know, cheating. This is the must-know thing.

But I think that's obvious. Yeah, but what about characteristic? Like a personality trait? 这不是讨厌不讨厌的问题,对吧? 就说不忠诚这个就是仁者方面的问题。 就说什么东西不讨厌,比如说吃饭,然后就... Like whatever, right? 有没有什么,就是什么方面的问题。 好,这很细节耶。 Yeah, it could be anything, it could be anything, or like... And I'll tell you why I'm asking that. Well, good question, I never thought about this. 你肯定有个画面出来了,你肯定有个东西。 我还真没有耶,我说实话。 就是有个东西就是你觉得... 就会有点...

Okay, let me, like, let's... Okay, so, okay. It's also because it's like he always checking out other women. Is that move? It's a move. Checking out other women. Yeah, I mean... Oh, 眼睛就在飄來飄去。 欸,就很色嘛,這種就很...很...很 ill. Okay. But this is like, like, that's a lot of guys. Like, that's just natural. Like, look but don't touch, right? That...

That makes sense. I cannot. That makes sense. Do women check out other guys all the time? No, they do, but they don't let you know. They totally do. Are you kidding? I'm sure they do, right? I don't.

i'm always observing okay i have to be honest i don't is because there's no one i think i can you know i don't know okay but also because i'm in relationship so different no can we say it's fair is it fair to say that we feel like women check out other guys just as much as men check out other girls no no way i don't i really guys are just guys guys are like dogs like literally like just like

Very honest. Right? That's just how we're wired. The smell, you see? Sorry, the pronunciation. Smell. When? So, okay. Let's ask the same question in a different way, right? No, but you were on like a thing. You were asking her for a reason. Let me ask the same question in a different way because we want to get to the answer before he reveals his grand theory. Yeah, okay. So, have you ever...

Yeah, it is a little strong. You'll get used to it. This is like the least strong. We'll give you some cavalon and then you'll know what strong means. Thank you. So I'm sure you've been on some dates that didn't turn into a relationship, right? So...

was there something that turned you off when you went on a date with some, for all the people who failed with you that you thought in the beginning, cause you're, right? Like you said, so you go and approach them. You're like, Oh, let's hang out. You hang out. And then something's like, it's a good way to put it. Right. What is the thing? It's not about looking around, obviously. Wow.

There's one time... There's one time... Okay, there's one time... Okay, I think he was joking, but there's one time I turned off because of that. After the dinner, he said, Are you not gonna share the bill? Oh my god, immediately turn off, you know? I can see that. Like, if I was a girl, that would turn me off too. But actually, he was... Of course, the...

So they wanted to go AA? I think he was just testing me.

I'm not going to go A anyways. Okay, so think about like... So let's talk strategy now, right? Because we are all in very happy, committed relationships. All of us now. So we're kind of like brainstorming on behalf of people. And we have a lot of young listeners, right? Yeah. So we're kind of helping people understand if you want to meet the right person, don't fuck things up so that you get to a point where it could have gone well and then you fucked it up in the very beginning because in the beginning, it's very... So if you're a dude...

Think about your key message in the date. Why would you joke? It's not even a funny joke. If you have a great joke, an awesome moment where you have a good joke, and there's a lot of risk but good reward, but if you take that joke, you get no reward out of it. It's not funny. So even if you joke, it's a stupid thing to do. It's not going to get you anywhere with the girl. I agree. It's a terrible joke. But I know ABCs, right? Local guys will never do this.

But ABCs, I've known some that have done that as a test. Just like what you're saying. They've actually tested. It wasn't a joke to them. They were totally willing to pay the bill, except they wanted to test the girl to see if she would even offer. Yes, yes.

You know, to split the bill just to kind of see because, you know, there's a whole stereotype and stigma of, you know, like, you know, Chinese girls being gold diggers or just girls being gold diggers in general. Old school thinking. Exactly. The times have changed. Women now in China are smart, intelligent, financially secure. For sure. We don't need to say that. We're no one saying they're not. It's just stupid. Well, how long ago was this, though? Two years ago. Yeah. See, this guy. So guys don't do that.

So, yeah, but some people were doing that as a test, which brings up the whole question of like, because you brought up one thing on the very top of your list, if I'm not mistaken, maybe one of the first things you mentioned on your list was this person needs to be able to financially provide for you, right? Like, so like, obviously... No, no, that's not what she said. She said, good job doesn't mean provide for her. She runs her own business. She probably makes more money than the dude. She said, have a good job, stable career. Doesn't mean...

Provide for her. Provide for her. That's old school thinking. Okay, so then why stable job and career? Because I have the... If not about the money. Okay, I think you guys both make sense, okay? Politician. Politician. I'm not trying to make a point. I'm just making observations. We like to argue. No, there's nothing to argue here. I'm not making a point. I'm just making an observation. No, that's fine.

我觉得所有的女生吧,就是我个人的话,我觉得我还是有一点传统的。 I'm actually traditional. 你一直这样说,但是你明明不是的。 你怎么那么了解我? There's nothing traditional about you, and nothing you say is traditional. Is there not the possibility that you can be part of two different worlds, just like us, we're East and West. Can you be traditional and modern at the same time? 来来来,说吧,我看一下。

Just like, okay, after marriage, okay, after marriage, I think this guy should be, you know, take care of the woman. Okay, define take care, what does it mean? Just like pay everything. Take care. Pay everything, yeah. It's just like you said. To financially provide. I think, okay, so of course, as a woman like me, I would do also a lot of things for the house, for maybe children, for my husband, right? But...

I mean, most of the part, it's from men. I think that's why he must have a stable job. And because if I was a wife, I would do like maybe cooking, you know, take care of more about the house. But you're a career woman. So do you think you would really be happy just taking care of the house? I love the problem. I really love it. I mean, I love to be like kind of...

to prepare the food for the husband after a long day of work. So you like the traditional roles. You like the traditional gender roles. I love it. I think it's amazing. There's nothing wrong with that. 他现在的路线是被逼出来的。 不是啦,我是真的喜欢啦。 No, no, 我的意思就是你做一个 entrepreneur, 做很多事情是逼出来的。 对。 Because you don't have the 机会 to really like

fall into that role. So you're like, okay, well, I'm not going to like just be that way myself. So I'm going to be entrepreneurial. I'm going to be strong and blah, blah, blah. But then, 你一到你见到一个人, 适合的人, 那你就会退步了。 你就会, 也不是说退步, 就是,

Go back to the way you really want to be. Right? Can you say it? Can I say that? Yes. Or is it maybe grass is greener on the other side kind of syndrome? Where because your daily life, you're not kind of like, you don't really, haven't really experienced those traditional gender roles because you've always had to be a very independent woman.

very entrepreneurial. So you're always experiencing that. So to you, grass is greener on the side when you do get into a relationship, you're like, you know what? I want that more traditional gender role. I want to be like the housewife cooking because that's not what I get to do normally. But if let's say situations were different and you were a girl that you weren't so business minded, you weren't so motivated to, or not motivated, but you didn't really have the opportunity to get out there and start your own businesses, run your own companies,

and you were all day kind of already in the house and blah blah blah, you might think differently. You might think, well, you know what? I want to have that freedom to get out there and do my own things and not be kind of stuck in the house and cleaning and whatever it is, right? Yes. So maybe it's the kind of grass is greener on the other side syndrome. Yes, but for me, I'd love to do that. It's just, I think it's fine.

I mean, it's nice. I get it. I've heard that before. So do you do it now? You're too busy. Do you do it now? I do. I do. For example, if... You cook for a chef?

Yeah, I do Chinese food. But he cannot make Chinese food, right? So the most enjoying in the house is after if he... Because the restaurant is a really, really tough job. So after a long day, he got home, I would ask him like one hour ago. Like, you tell me before one hour. So I prepare everything and I just watch him to eat. And I think it's happiness. It's a really good thing.

What's Chef G's favorite dish that you make? 红烧肉。 Damn! Can we be friends with Chef G? Because we want to come over. Of course, of course. Like, Chef G, please, we love Italian people. You're awesome. 我想聊一个话题, based on this. It's like, because personally, I have thought about this. You know, coming from a Western upbringing, 嗯。

thinking about what what is the ideal life as a male in a relationship marriage what do i want from a female etc right yeah um and then living in china all these years um i've i've personally i've

thought about both sides. One of, for example, from a woman's side, I want them to be independent, strong, hardworking, you know, all that stuff, you know, have independent thinking out there doing their thing and I support them. Or the other side is, okay, well, I support them, but they're more on the housewife style, you know, take care of the home and stuff like that and kind of baby me a little bit and, you know, and like all that stuff. And I just thought about it because at first it was very one-sided. It was very like, well, I could never accept a woman like that.

like a housewife type because that's like that they have no ambition. There's no passion. Like how could I ever be with anybody like that? Right.

But then, I don't know, I started thinking about it and I think it really comes back to the whole to each their own because there are women that are very happy to be that way. And who am I to push my agenda on them to make them be passionate or chase these dreams or whatever? Maybe they don't really care that much about it. Maybe their dream is to have that beautiful home and take care of the family and raise kids.

kids and feel that they're needed. You know what I mean? And they have that strong role in the family, right? I think as a real man, right? I think a real man find out the beauty of a housewife. This wife, they will think she's sexy, she's smart because she's just taking care of the family and which is most important thing in our life.

Right? So I think as a woman, also for a man, why I said a stable job, because everything costs. This is a reality. And also like we need...

This man always support us, as you said. It's like you can be a housewife, but you can also have your career. And your man can stay always next to you to helping you to, you know, help you to achieve your dreams. So I think this is the good partner. This is breaking through, I think, a lot of unconscious bias. So, you know, we grow up.

And, you know, we watch movies. We're exposed to a lot of the same culture. You're a little bit younger, so you've been exposed to a lot of Western media. So we have these ideas in our head, like your perfect list. What you really found, though, from your own experience is that

that perfect list didn't really represent what you really wanted. You thought you wanted that, but what you really need was something a little bit different. And so we have these really cookie cutter black and white, like you're a housewife, you're a career woman, all this stuff. And then now there's a movement that says, okay, you know, we can't think of people that way. Like you're, you know, like women can do this and women can do this. Right. And we've created all of these sort of artificial superficial kind of distinctions. The reality is we should break all that down.

What men want, right? We've gotten, we talked about women. We can go back to that. What men want is a woman that is ambitious, right? That is, you know, trying to learn new things and trying to grow. And if that place is at the home where they're, you know, always thinking of new ways to make the home better, then they will gain our respect and we will love them more, right? What

I think the housewife things get associated with is like the in guide. Cause yeah, it's like a negative thing in guide. And then it's just a very low menial role. Yeah. No. Like if you're at home and making the home, cause I'm not good at that kind of stuff.

But I tell you, it's so important. It's so important that you have someone that can innovate around the home and make it better because that's like a big part of your life. And people who can do that have that incredible creativity and skill. And it doesn't preclude you from being a career woman. And so we like to think of these roles differently.

And then have all these conversations about these preconceived roles. The reality is that we're human beings. We're malleable, flexible human beings. We can take on different roles. But if there's a woman that, if I've had a difficult day, right, and it can make something for me, great. Like in our household, like I work in a company that has a great cafeteria. So most of the time, I actually buy all the food

I shouldn't be saying this because now everyone knows. But anyways, so I buy my dinner at the cafeteria too because the food is really good. It's healthy. And then because I know that she's also working and she's probably not going to be able to make dinner. But on the weekends when she does, I really appreciate it. There's no in-guy, but I appreciate it. And so when she makes that great steak or whatever it is, I'm like, okay, you're awesome because you're,

really, you know, pursuing your career. And when you do have time, you can make something, right? Whereas the old me would have been like, oh, why don't you cook for me every day? Right? But that, there's no, you know, it's, yeah, anyways, I'll let you comment. No, I'm listening. No, no, no, please comment though. I think that's what I wanted to say. I just want to add one more thing before you comment. It's just that I think that it's, because in the West, it's a bit frowned upon, that way of thinking, a little bit like the whole like, oh, um,

the whole like women should be at home or now it is it used to be the social norm yeah yeah it's now it is it's like no it's frowned everywhere I frown we all frown on that traditional like that's all you can do times have changed but like there was a time not too long ago that that was completely accepted but what I'm trying to say is that there's nothing wrong with a woman wanting that like

Like striving to be the ultimate housewife. But see, okay, so I agree with you and I also want to bring a subtle distinction. I don't think women are like, I want to be like a housewife and only a housewife. I think they're thinking in terms of these are the things I want to do to make a better family. And so we're treating it as a job. It's not a fucking job, right? No one wants the job of being a housewife. But you might say, okay, I want to make the house really beautiful.

Or I want to maybe cook for the family from time to time. There's specific things and tasks and activities that want to be done, but no one wants to be pigeonholed like that is who you are. Well, yeah, let's reel this in a little bit, though, because I think we're letting this kind of idea get a little bit out of hand. I don't think anyone was ever thinking that it was bad for a woman to want to fit into a traditional, the quote-unquote traditional kind of...

gender role, right? Of being a housewife. The stigma to it was that it shouldn't be the male kind of expecting that from the woman or forcing the woman to fit into that mold. If she wants to do something else, you know, you should maybe support her in that and not kind of force her to be a housewife. But if she wanted to be a housewife, that was never frowned upon in terms of, oh, you want to be a housewife? That's not the distinction I was making.

The distinction I was making was that I think we should think of it even in more subtle terms. I don't think that anyone wants to be, you know, put a hat on that says you're A or you're B or you're C. And I think that's the distinction. We've traditionally characterized you're either A or you're either B. And we put this hat on you and say that defines who you are. What we're saying is we're all human beings and there's certain things that we like to do. And we're

There are actually a lot of house things that women would like guys to do. There are certain things that I do at home. Maybe I wash the dishes, and that's my expectation. I'm saying break down all these barriers. There are certain things at home that we all can do. But putting a label on it is, I think, the next. First of all, let's not say that you need to eat something. But I think the second step is break down the label.

We can all have a career and we can all play our role at home. There are certain things that I do at home. I go wash the dishes. I mean, there are certain things that might be traditionally considered what the woman would do, but the expectation is that I do it. But then there's a lot of things like ordering the food. I don't order any of the food. The fridge is always stocked, right? So I think we just want to break things down so that we don't have any kind of preconception of who would want to do what.

you know this did you something yeah let's hear from jenny so actually i was also thinking about some things like i wanted to be a traditional i want to be um you know take care of the family but the reality actually is pretty difficult because um because you know the working time or you know

My working time, sometimes I couldn't let it happen like every single day, which is I wanted. But, you know, sometimes also physically your body will feel tired and you just be lazy. It will happen. But I think I just trying the best to make it like this. You do what you can. But I think you make a point is like if the guy forcing a woman to do this, everything will totally change.

It's not good. And the woman will lose the passion to doing these things. You know, like this whole conversation, actually, I'm going to virtue signal a little bit. What do you think I was doing the whole time? I'm just kidding. This whole conversation is actually making me feel a lot better about myself. And the reason is because I've never subscribed to this whole having a preordained list or predetermined list of who my ideal partner was going to be.

And for the longest time, because you guys or my friends around me would almost ask me, "Oh, what would your perfect girl be?" We would almost go through these exercises, these mental exercises, just chit-chat, guys talking amongst guys. "Oh, who's your perfect girl?" Before I got married, "Who would you want to marry? Who's your perfect wife?" And everyone seemed almost to have a very clear, articulated list. Like, "Oh, boom, boom, boom, A, B, C, D."

And I never had a list. And because I never agreed with the idea of having a predetermined list. I'm like, there's so many different people out there with so many different personalities, so many different traits, right?

Who am I to be like, oh, this is exactly what I want. How do I know? Like you get out there and you expose yourself to more and more people and you learn more and more things. The more you realize, the more you kind of interact, the more you realize there's so many great things out there that people can have and attributes people have that you never even thought of before. So I was always thought of like, how can you even have a list? And I almost thought that that was something wrong with me.

So I almost thought of it as a negative thing until today because everyone else seemed to have a list and except me. So I thought that like, oh, are my standards just so low that I don't even have a list? You know, like I got self-conscious about that because I was like, oh, maybe I just don't have standards. Like everyone seems- Because Justin used to say that he could walk and that's enough.

But it's a good thing. It's healthy. No, but I have said that in a joking fashion. But I said it facetiously in the sense that like, look, I'm not here to like prejudge people or like predetermine what I want.

I want to find out what I want. What you want should almost be a learning process. It should almost be exploring what you want. Let's look at the list. Do I not have enough standards? So you're a wife. Okay. Beautiful. Check. Right. Good career. Check. Like very sweet. Check. Like articulate in multiple languages. Check. Like cool to hang out with for your friends. Check. Okay, dude. Okay.

Yeah, but that was never a thought. There was never things I thought about. Yeah, you know? These were never things. I never had a checklist. When I met somebody, I never went down a checklist. Oh, do they meet these criteria? I have an unconscious. I mean, I have a new term I'm going to coin. It's called the unconscious checklist by Justin. Can I ask you guys one question? Yeah, you can. You think everyone has a checklist? They just don't know it? Yes, of course.

I would argue on that. If you ended up with some trash, then yeah. But like, I mean, come on. Okay, so I'm going to ask... That doesn't prove anything. Okay, I'm not going to air it out. I'm just curious. Would you... Okay, so you date... Okay, let's think. Now you're dating a girl, right? And she's a nice girl and you pretty like her. But would you change your mind to...

Would you change your mind... How do you say? 你就用中文吧。 When you find out... Okay. 等一下哦。 Alright, okay.

嗯。

对,就是但是他其实是个好的人,但是他的 behavior 是那样,那你会,你没有去了解他之前,你还没有了解他,但是他 behavior 是那样,那你会不会,就是说,就是 change your mind?

Well, I don't know about... Let's each answer that. You go first. Maybe you said that she's often drunk. I mean, that's probably something I would be worried about for sure. Yeah. But her career, her job, what job she has, what career she does has never been on my list and I've never cared. I've always told, you know, my wife today, like, she can quit her job now. I wouldn't care.

I would still love her. And the job she has now, by the way, when I met her, she didn't have. She was just an intern. She wasn't anything really at that point in terms of career-wise. So a woman's kind of profession and job and status in the professional realm has never, ever, I've never cared about. Never cared about. And her education, I care about even less.

I've always but I've always been like that like I've never cared for the educational system in terms of judging people by oh you graduated from this school so you must be good you must be better you must be smarter I've never cared for that kind of shit so I've never looked for that in a partner and I've never cared I've I only found out where she went to school after we've been dating for like years like I never even cared to ask where she graduated that's never registered for me Justin um

I find what you just shared, I mean, pretty admirable. I like the way you articulate that. I do feel from all the years we've known each other that you're a really great judge for character. And, you know, it sounds like the way you judge people is not based on these superficial things because you could have a degree from a great school and still be a shit person. And so you're, you know, I think what you're saying is that you have standards, but they're not conventional standards.

And I would have to guess that the reason that, you know, your wife has a good career and

you know, solid education, all these things as a reflection of her character. And you were judging where, you know, your standard was based on the character and these kinds of things kind of flowed from that. I mean, my standard is based off of my actual interactions over a duration of time with a person and not a checklist where I'm like, oh, did you do this, this and this? And they just be like, okay, no. Okay. Then I'm off onto the next person. Like my standards, it's not that I don't have standards. I think you're right in terms of the idea that it's impossible not to have some sort of standard.

Innately, we're all built with standards, whether we realize them or not.

My point is my standards are flexible in the sense that I judge a person after interacting with them for a period of time and getting to know the person and not some sort of surface level checklist where I'm like checking off boxes, you know? I totally, a hundred percent agree. That's all I'm saying. Yeah. And I mean, you know, your choice of friends obviously shows your great judgment. Except I failed with you. Yeah. Clearly. Yeah. You know, interactions over a duration of time. Yeah.

Half of which we don't remember. So I think one of the things I want to add to that is... Cheers. See you never. We have a long history. You guys are really... Because last time was like more peace. Eric and I have a complicated history. But we love each other. Yeah, we do. We do. This guy's awesome. Yeah, so one thing I want to add to what Justin was saying was like...

I'm not going to say from personally, but I think in general, everybody has different standards, right? And also it depends on your upbringing, depends on your economical status, depends on, you know, I guess a lot of variables in terms of determining if you can accept a person's background based off of a certain checklist, right? Because there are certain, I know people that literally do work off that checklist, right?

And without that checklist, you can't even have the dinner with me until you hit that checklist. It's like the basic 门槛. Yeah, it's like a 门槛. And what Justin was saying and what Eric was also adding on to, you can't have a checklist because that checklist is not so black and white. Just like you can graduate from Harvard, right? And because maybe your 门槛 is I need somebody that has really high education.

But they could be a fucking asshole. You know, a dick. That was me.

That was on my list. Or like, 哦,他必须要年薪一百万,两百万, whatever it is, right? But that same guy is cheating every other day, you know, sleeping with many different people. You know what I mean? You know, 必须要帅成像 whatever 演员, right? But that guy doesn't know how to take care of anything in his life. 我随便说啊, you know what I mean? 所以你不可能有一个 checklist,其实。 我真实已经给大家,

做过这个实验了 怎么做 就是我有按照我的那个 checklist 去做 就是说去择偶啊 去城市 约会的时候吗 去 dating yeah 然后但是那个人其实是非常不适合你的 就是其实根本跟你

就它不能够给你带来那个快乐 就是我觉得很多人自己骗自己 You know 它们都自己骗自己嘛 就是觉得 ok so actually 很多人碰到一个男生的时候 或者是女生就很 perfect for them 然后他们就会容忍一切其他的 他的一些 cheating 也好 他的那个

對他的精神的折磨,他們都會... 他就被接受。 接受,就接受啊。 Turn the other cheek to his other flaws. 自己也閉著眼。 Only because he checked off 他們覺得他們想要的 list. 所以他們很多其他的缺點,他們就 ignore. 然後他們就很痛苦,其實很痛苦。 那我問你啊,就是 maybe 痛苦。

Maybe 有些人是 OK 无所谓啊 你知道吗 因为那些人是只在乎别人对他们的看法 因为别人说起来 他男朋友是哪里哪里学校的 赚多少钱的 帅不帅的 但是你不觉得到最后 Everybody is different Everybody has different standards Everybody has different 追求 所以你不可能有一个方式 概括 everybody 不可能的 Right

Everyone has different priorities. And sometimes we don't know what our priorities really are until you live them day to day. A relationship is a day to day thing.

Right. It's an everyday thing. And so there are things that you think you might want in your head, but can you live with those day to day? And I think that's a mistake people make. And that's why divorce and all these things happen, because everything gets checked off in the beginning. But when you have to be with this person and then you really understand what it's like to be day to day with them married, then you realize what's really important. So sometimes it's a second or the third marriage that people really figure it out. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, that's so true. That's true. 99%, I think. If there's one advice, right? And obviously, who am I to give advice? But if there's one thing that I'm thankful that I did before I got married was that I actually lived with my girlfriend for several years before we got married.

So like, you know, a lot of people get these in Western culture in America, it's called shotgun marriages, right? Where they meet for like two months and then they get married after like the second month, right? It's like, it's crazy, right? And, you know, sometimes they work out and fingers crossed, you know, wish them luck.

But like for me, what I'm so thankful that I did was that I lived with my girlfriend and eventually fiance. We lived together for like at least six years, if not more. And I'm not saying you have to go that long. We just went really long. But I lived for her for like several years together every day before we got married. And so by the time I married her,

I didn't have any doubt. I wasn't like, oh man, what if she turns into this like whole different person or blah, blah, blah. Like I knew exactly what I was buying. Right. It's like, it's like test driving a car before you buy a car. It's like, you have to drive it for a while. Like you gotta know, you gotta know, you gotta know exactly what you're getting. Because to Eric's point, we check things on a surface and just like on a date you put up like, or on an interview, on a job interview, you put up your best facade, you put up your best front.

But that's just the front. Like, we need to know, like, the person you are on a day-to-day basis. And oftentimes, there's a lot of things that we're hiding or we're lying about or that we're just not admitting. And you can't hide those things living together for six years with somebody. You just can't. Justin, so it's interesting what you say, and I feel you, right? Now, the audience, I'm guessing, right?

is going to be polarized on this one. So every guy that's listening to the show and be like, yeah, man, you held out for six years. Oh shit. Yeah. I was like, fuck you. He's like, that's my hero. Right. And then every girl listening is like, you dragged your feet for six years. Like what? So somebody else in an iron, because I think a lot of women, they know women's instincts are just, I think in general, better than men. Like if they, a lot of studies show this, right? Like women are very like instinctive. They have to protect their,

the family, like all this stuff. So I think most women, they know, like when they go into it, they spend a short amount of time and they know they're just like, they're, you know, and guys like they go through this long, long, long process. And then you have this sort of,

I'm going to say something controversial here. Okay. Since when? But I don't think it's necessary they know, but I think that women face a different social pressure than men do. So women face a social pressure of not only aging and biological time and having to get married earlier, right? They face a lot of pressure. So they are always incentivized and pressured to get married earlier.

earlier than let's say men are, right? And that's just a social pressure in society. That's just the reality of things. I'm not saying it's right. But what I'm saying is that like what I just said about like my advice goes just as much for men

that it does to women like i would give women that same advice because to women out there you got to know what you're getting yourself into too it's a two-way street like you got to know what you're buying because the guy like you don't know until you actually live with this guy yeah for a while and really get to know him and then have all his ugly sides come out and if you can accept all the ugliness that comes out then you know you have someone you really love yeah of course a lot of

Ugly signs. But I think if you really love this person, you think it's also a good thing of him. It's a special thing of him. But that's the difference. That's the difference. It's the word you just used. If you think you love him. Yeah, that's great. You can think you love somebody, but you just think you love them. You have to know you love them. No, I mean, if you really love him, them. If you really love them.

But that's the fucked up thing with love is like love because like often that's why there's puppy love, there's love at first sight. When I was younger and you know I dated earlier girlfriends, I could have sworn I was head over heels about a girl so in love there was nothing you could say to me at that point in time that would convince me otherwise, right? So that's the fucked up and crazy thing about love is that when you feel you are in love,

There's nothing that can tell you different. There's nothing that can convince your mind otherwise. And you're actually probably not thinking clearly enough, right? And you're so like just wrapped up in it that you just don't see the bigger picture sometimes. And there's no one that can tell you different. So it's the difference between feeling love and knowing love.

you're in love, you know? And that's the evil thing. Well, not evil thing, but that's the tricky thing about love is every time you are in love, whether it works out or whether it becomes, or it's real or not, you feel you know you are in love. Like to you, it's a fact at that point. It's like, it's absolute fact. But then oftentimes, at least throughout my life, I could have told you several times before that I was in love. I was in love. I was in love. Looking back on it now with what I have with my current wife,

I can look back on those times and be like, well, no, that wasn't love. Like, I just thought that at the time. It's a maturity, actually, I think, to begin to even understand, like, what is the definition of love? Because that's like an age-old question. Like, what does love mean? Right? Like, just like I was saying, you're asking, like, love at first sight. And I'm saying, no, it's lust at first sight. Right? Or puppy love. We know the early stages of love. Love never first sight, I feel.

No, but what I'm saying is that there's a lot of definitions for love, right? And then people always have their own belief of what love is. And there is no official definition of love. It only can be defined by what you experience and what you believe in. Yeah.

No one can tell you what love is. No one can tell you. You can only tell yourself. Like, for example, if I'm going to use myself as an example, like I was always searching for that ideal idea of what love is. And that would have meant that I'm eternally always feeling positive and happy in a relationship. And the person makes me feel good. And I can make that person feel good. And there's that attraction. And the sexual connection is great. And when we're together, we're having fun. Right?

So to me, I was like, well, that must be love. Right. But then I realized that because I've been in long-term relationships that that goes away. Like all different things, like all the different facets of a relationship, like these specific particulars, they go away. Right. Or they transform to different meanings. Right.

And so one thing that I realized is that made me realize that I love my wife is that it's constant changing and I'm in it. Like I'm okay with changing. You know what I mean? And I'm okay with that person changing. And as long as like we're constantly changing, maybe that's love. You know, because we're constantly giving. You know what I mean? We're giving to each other to make sure that we're growing. Right? So like...

Maybe that's what it means, at least for me. Yeah. Like you threw the list out the window. Yeah, my list is gone. Yeah. Because just like what she said, my wife did not hit all the numbers that I was expecting, you know, but that's okay. It's okay. You know? Totally okay. What do you think, Jenny? I think love is a really complicated thing. Yeah. Yeah. I think I still have a lot to learn.

To be honest. So do we all. Everyone does. Yeah, but you know, what I know it's about now, in this moment, what I have, what we have, and I just try my best to leaving it to love. Well, so when I'm thinking about this from maybe like a female's perspective, right? One thing that I've learned is that men are very sure about a lot of things, but we're frequently wrong.

And when I've taken the time to talk to females in my life,

my significant other, my mom, you know, et cetera, I learned so much. And I realized that we're, we're probably more sort of self-assured than women are. And they're a little bit more, you know, maybe willing to kind of question their own beliefs. And so when I've taken the time to understand them, I realized like, God, like I have a lot of shit that I think, but I'm totally wrong. And so when it comes to love and all these things, I realized that I probably don't really know what I'm talking about because I get the other perspective. I'm like, damn, that really makes sense. Right. Like talking to,

other people and i think everyone has to go through their process a little bit so like you went through this process so think about it like your wife is the same person like theoretically you didn't have to go through the six years it wasn't like those six years that you know like you weren't like giving her tests every day and then like making sure she's still really the same person

but you needed to go through your process. She might not have needed that. Like when I think about my significant other, it's like, okay, I had to go through my process. But one thing that made me sure that she was the right one was because she was willing to let me go through my process. But I think she already knew like upfront because she could see my flaws very, very clearly because when you meet someone like me, all you see is flaws in the beginning and then there's might be like

It's quite obvious. Yeah, like one or two good things. But basically, it's like this guy, his name is Flaw, you know, like defect. I still haven't found any gaming attribute about him. We did a whole, we did, so by the way, we did episodes on strengths and weaknesses and, you know, my segment on strengths lasted about 10 seconds, you know, there was not much. Oh, come on. And then we did like four shows on my weaknesses. Let's go away from this stuff. But,

So I think there's this process piece. One little nuance I wanted to hit on was that like you were talking about like, okay, well, you know, women, they're under the marriage pressure. And so, you know, they just make decisions. But think of it this way. If you're under marriage pressure, the stakes are higher. So they have to make quicker decisions. So they actually have to be better. They don't have six years. So you took six years, but maybe you could have done it in six months if you had really...

had that pressure then you could have decided okay if she's the one or not the one right because that thing that you learned in those six years is really you didn't need six years yeah well true but you only know that in hindsight exactly because i got lucky with her right like had it been let's say another girl and you know after a few months i realized whoa this girl is like a complete monster

then we'd be saying a different story. I just got lucky. I happened to get lucky. But the six years is very arbitrary. And so people listening to that, they're like, well, why was it six years? Why was it whatever, two years? But one quick thing is that

I want to go back to the way you judge, like look at people, right? And I think there's a lot to learn from it. I think that number one is that how you judge character. So we have limited time on the earth. We have limited energy. And there's a lot of things that we want to do to make the world better, to make our lives better, to make our families better. We don't have time to hang out with people who,

that are not going to be helpful for us. And so the filter that we use to judge character, whether it's our wives or girl, you know, like, like, you know, our friends, like all this stuff, it should be the same filter, right? It shouldn't be a checklist. It shouldn't be like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, right? We should be judging people based on their character. So when I kind of reflect on what I was looking at, yeah, like my parents are like from a very early age, they indoctrinated me about checklists and,

Why? Because the time they grew up in China, they didn't have time to give you an interview. Like it was like life or fucking death and wartime fucking Asia. And so it was basically, it's like, okay, who is this person? They had to quickly size them up. So the way my parents and particularly my mom size people up was based on their backgrounds. Like what school do you went to? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And so there is a value for checklist. Doctors use checklist because you have to- It's like a shortcut. Yes, it's a shortcut. It's actually human nature. Yes, it's human nature. And it's like, because when you're on the Savannah in Africa 10,000 years ago and your life depended on, is that a tiger? Is that a friend?

Or is that something that's going to eat you? You can't be like, hey, let me spend six years finding out if you're a tiger. It's like I don't have time to listen to the whole story. Just give me the bullet points. And that's the checklist. So there's value of checklists. But then on the other hand, checklists can be misused and used in bad ways. So for me, it was kind of like that was a learning process. But if you live your whole life through checklists, you might never find the right person because you eliminate everyone.

And so for me, I really agree with you. It's sort of like you have to look at people's trajectory. And then going back to your question, so I am a little bit, like my whole family, I admit we're like shili because we use those checklists, right? Oh, you're, oh, you're not a famous university, blah, blah, blah, right? That's like- What is shili in English? It means you're like- Shili in- Practical? No, um-

失离 means like you look down on people that don't have a certain level of like snobby. Oh, snobby. Oh, okay. Right? And I realized that, okay, like that's how I am. And you guys know me. You've met my family and stuff like that. We're super snobbish. They were super nice to us. I didn't get that at all. Well, that's because afterwards they're like, oh, that Justin, his family is pretty good. They had their checklists. We met their checklists. He made his own studio. He invited friends. This person can make people.

哈威尔做导演肯定是有领导能力。 They met all the checklists. 哦,他们个子也不错啊,面相啊,气质啊都不错, 这个两个人家庭还都不错的。 So I use those checklists. That's why I was asking you like, did you care about the background? Because I think also it's because the parents. 那肯定是父母,父母影响很大的。 Yes.

很多男生有问过这种问题的,他们也会说另外一个女生有一个很好的教育,然后家庭很好,就是会这样说,然后我觉得这个真的是很重要吗? 因为我刚才说了,很多人会考虑到,

我们两个有没有匹配 从家庭匹配 因为比如说你结婚 你肯定不只是我跟你 对吗 是我们两个 family 是一起的 Right 我觉得以后就不会这样了 新的 generation 就不会 为什么 因为父母就是我们这样的人啊

你真的觉得吗? I think so. Yeah, I think it will start changing over time, generation to generation, right? Yes. 因为比如说我们已经有这样子的想法, 那我们下面生小孩子, 那我们给他们传下来的想法也会, you know, more along these lines, right? But it needs time. Yeah, it's like generation after generation, that's time, that's time. Yeah.

So it's hard. It's hard to get past your own background, you know, and like I felt like I was a very checklist kind of person and that's why it took me so long to, you know, find someone. But I think you can't, you know, base all your decisions on checklists. And you also have to look at trajectory. Think about stocks. Do you buy a stock when it's like the highest point it's ever been? No, you buy low, you sell high. And so in a lot of ways, it's like when you look at people, you're

you want to find, you know, because if you want to find, if you want to find like a billionaire's daughter, if you want to find a billionaire's daughter, I mean, it's like, my parents would always say, excuse my, it's like, because my parents would be like, wow, wow. Oh, you parents will definitely hate me, I think. But,

only one way to find out I don't know because because it's like this this is the reality I mean no matter like how awesome you really are but if you don't have the background education just it's pretty hard you know

Well, I don't know. I don't know if that's what we were saying. I mean, I don't really care because, you know. Well, what Eric was saying is true. It's like, you know, you try to spend enough time with a person and interact enough with the person that you can try to get a feel for their trajectory. And whatever their trajectory is, if it's something that, you know, you're looking for and that you kind of want to go along on that same path, then that person's for you. You know what I mean? It's not this preordained perfect list thing.

you know, so many think that there is, you know, like throw, throw the list out. And then just to clarify, it means that if you aim too high, because she knows what it means. When you aim too high, you got to look, take a piss, right? Because that's not going to give you the best reflection of yourself. What Sapa...

少胖要糙到精神 means like, know who the fuck you are, dude. So you're going high, you're aiming high, take a fucking piss, look at your reflection, what are you? 但是反过来... That's what my parents, you know, my parents belittled me all the time. Yeah, but like, I also, I've also heard...

Maybe you guys heard it in the past. That's so harsh, isn't it? Is that harsh? That's not harsh. That's not harsh. I mean, you're spitting fact, though. I mean, it's true. No, I mean, were my parents harsh? Yeah, it's like, take an appearance and be like, what do you look like? Yeah, well, we've all known. Anyone that's listened to this podcast for a while knows that your upbringing, your parents were very harsh on you. And, you know, you can look at it both ways and see the good and the bad that came from that. But what were you about to say? No, that's fine.

Don't pout. I'm not pouting. I'm saying it's fine. She's going to say something. I just want to ask you a question. So what if you fall in love with someone that the type that your parents would definitely not allow you to date, but you really, really want to be with her? What would you do? Okay. That's a great question. So I thought that was a dilemma before. I really thought that was a dilemma. But what I realized was that most...

I love my parents and... It's okay. They're not going to listen to this. No, they do. They listen to every episode. Hi. No, they're like... Oh, that'll turn them around. My mom loves the show. She's really proud of me. She loves my friends. Thinks we're doing a great thing. The only criticism, she's like, hey, yeah, your relatives also listen to it and they notice that you say the F word a lot. 你们不要说这么多脏话。

That's the only thing my mom says. But I think what I realized over time, and again, it takes time, right? Like six years, whatever, 12, 18. But everyone has their sort of process. It's that I realized that they shaped me and who I am. And when I was younger, I really rebelled. I was like, God, you ruined my life. Everything you taught me was wrong. And I, you know, all my struggles in life was because you guys didn't raise me correctly. And,

And what I realized is that like, you know, every set of parents are just doing the best they can. Like they sacrifice their whole life just to make sure that my brother and I would have the best possible life, but they didn't know everything. They're not psychologists. They're not doctors. They tried their best. They did more good than bad. Of course, I think we turned out all okay. And then life is a journey to kind of like figure out yourself a little bit and you have to do that on your own. But what I realized was they shaped me so significantly that I,

Um, the person that I will end up with that I am ending up with is someone I think they would, they would accept because they shape my values and how I look at the world. And so it's unlikely that I would bring home someone that they wouldn't maybe accept. Now their acceptance is not the condition of me being with this particular person, but I think they're so influential because my parents were very, I think very, um,

deep in my psyche is that like what they wanted. And I think it's the right thing, the right type of person. If I brought home someone that I really truly loved, they would also accept her. And that's what the end result is over a long period of time. So it's not about them accepting or not accepting. It's that they created me. And so in some way that represents their vision. Now, is she perfect? Are there things that they're not happy with? Yeah, of course.

I wouldn't want her to be like a perfect representation because it's also a reflection of my vision of what I want. Yeah. Good answer. I think, and I think, I think a lot of the takeaway from this is at least that I'm getting is that like, look, whether we're talking about love and life and you can say that life and love are intertangled and

That's just part of the experience, right? And lust, of course. For Howie, especially. But it's all about trial and error. It's all about experiencing and trial and error. And I would think that even Jenny, you would agree that we probably shouldn't do what you did, which was kind of be single for seven years because you were too afraid of falling in love or showing yourself or being yourself or getting hurt or whatever it was.

I think you would even agree that girls today or guys today shouldn't, probably shouldn't do that. And it's all about go out there, be bold, experience other things, experience new things, try, fail, get up again, fail again, try again, and keep going. You know what I mean? It's all about trial and error and experiencing things. And through that process itself,

you will learn more and more. And that process is the journey. I mean, that's corny and cliche, but it's so true. It's like, it's like, it's this constant learning. It's the same idea with entrepreneurism, right? You start a business, you fail, you get up, you learn from why you failed, you continue on and you fail again. And you continue on, continue on until you get more and more successful and hone into that success rate. Right. Same deal with the relationships, right?

You failed. Okay. Why did they fail? Is it because of you? Is it because of them? You know? Okay. Then you, you start to realize what you really like. You start to realize that maybe things that you need to work on, you know, et cetera, as you get closer and closer and hone in on that person, um,

Don't be afraid to fail. And I love how we're talking about this now because it's like we're kind of coming full circle from a like subtle art of not giving a fuck about like the fear of failure, right? And we were talking about that from a life and more so from like a professional angle, career angle, but it applies to love. It applies to relationships. Like don't be afraid to put yourself out there and fail with a relationship. Like don't. Like we should be engaging in more relationships, I feel. Okay, let's hear it from...

Yeah, I'm okay now, but before I think, how do you say, yeah, you have to be brave on anything. So now I'm good. Before was, oh my God, it's really terrible. I feel so many times, not just about relationship, everything. In my 20s. Yeah, but anyway, it's a good, you've got to where you are now.

Yeah, I learn from mistakes all the time. But were you like, did you have this fear? Like you say you were single for seven years and you said that it was because of a fear. Was it because of the fear of like failing in a relationship or getting heartbroken or you know, what was it? Both of that. Of course. And you know, because as a woman, if you get older and older, you get harder. The things become more difficult.

And that's the reality. I know there's a lady, she's really beautiful, smart, she got a stable job, everything, right? But she's just also like no confidence because the guy she's seeing like with another woman, which has, you know, maybe more successful. But I mean, come on.

like you guys said, who care about a woman that has a, you know, decent job. Well, it's just everybody's different. Yeah, it's true. But maybe, some other guy from down the block is not like that. It's true. This, we get into this checklist thing, right? So, um, one guy that, Justin, you introduced us to the part, you know, Dax, the new Joe Rogan, you know, I think he said something, um,

on his show. He's just a good podcast. So you don't have to say he's the new Joe Rogan. No one ever said he's the new Joe Rogan. They can be two, two existing entities at the same time. It's an ongoing inside joke on this podcast, right? Because we're always searching for the next Joe Rogan. True, true. We found him in China, of course, already on Shimalaya. But he said like, it's not about, you know, finding the best person.

That's not ever going to happen. It's about building the best relationship, you know? And I think it's so true because we think of it as like an end point, like, okay, you go find someone and that's it. Right. But it's actually the interaction you have. The actual relationship is not the person, like what you see on their resume. It's actually like what you've done together. It's a constant resume. The resume, eventually the Harvard, the whatever, that's going to get old. But what you did with this person last week, um,

is actually going to make you happy. And so it's about building that relationship and learning from one, one another, et cetera. Right. But, you know, kind of going back to your, your situation, first of all, we're absolutely ecstatic about,

that you found someone because when I was listening to the podcast and I was like, Oh no, how could you know? But, um, but she knew. And then, you know, I was like, and like, you know, I talked to how I'm like, Oh, you're such a cool person. So smart. And I saw the photos. I'm like, Oh, so beautiful. So beautiful. I'm like, wow. But like, my question is, um,

like not to be specific with your relationship with this amazing Chef G, but just in general, like after going through everything, like what are your expectations for relationships now? Like, what do you expect? You mean for now? Yeah. In general.

wow it's really difficult actually I'm pretty happy for everything now I don't really want more I don't feel I want more really gotta go there no but is that is that the is that the natural next step is that something you're thinking about is that something you're you're kind of wanting I I I

Put so much care in positioning the question in a very soft way. And then you're just like, okay. It's like, no. Just hammer that shit. First, we're just together for like 10 months, right? And this eye was kind of like you. Because I want to spend more time, more years to know a person. Because it's just like this. I think it's better. And then I think marriage is never... For me, it's never...

never very very never that important for me marriage because i think if people that he really loved me and we can just be together forever without the paper because i know actually

There's a couple, they're together for like more than 20 years together. They never get married, but they are together every day. It's like this. So I don't, for marriage, for me, a wedding, those fancy wedding for me, I never really cares. I just care about, you know, if he's truly love me or he's loyal. But I want to, I really want to adopt a children. Oh, you want to adopt? Yeah.

Good for you. I really want to. Hell yeah. I, I, I, yeah. Why do you, why adoption versus maybe having your own? Because I don't want to change my body.

Oh, okay. So here I thought you were being like noble for like your just reasons. You're like, I just want to change my body. I want to keep a good figure. No, I'm kidding. No, but still, it doesn't, you know, whatever your reasons are, adopting is a great thing to do. No, no. It's also actually because I think the world is already so crowded. Yeah. There's so many kids that need to be adopted. Next time someone asks you that, start with the second answer. Come on. I'm...

It's the honest drink. Come on, it's the honest drink. Yeah, it's true. But also because the body. 但是呢, 更多是因为 我觉得世界真的已经很急了。 对。 然后我觉得, you know, everybody suffering so much. Oh my God. I feel like it's a jail on us. That's great. Did you change the way you think? Because like...

I don't know. 我以前 20 多岁的时候, 我觉得我肯定要生自己小孩子。 But like, 就是现在的情况来说, 我觉得的确是, The world is way overpopulated. You don't know what the future is going to bring. It's not exactly the most stable like world or society that we're living in right now. So what does it mean?

Right? 就是而且再加上刚才说了嘛 There's a lot of kids out there that don't have families. Yes. You know? 很可怜啊。 所以其实这种想法我觉得因为我朋友里面在美国很多朋友也是这样想的。 对啊。 但是中国...

I'd be very curious to see what the adoption rate in China is. Because I feel it's like a cultural thing. If you want, I can ask for you too because I know some people from a church. Yeah, I'd be very curious about that. I know there's a person, she adopted like five children

five children and she also have another five children by her own like they really have 10 children and i talked to this woman many years ago and i was like wow this uh this kind of my dream life but that was too much 10 10 kids for me too much super noble i mean so i mean one friend so i won't mention the name just you know for confidentiality but um but you guys would know this friend

tell you after the show was one of seven or eight adopted into a household in the U S from Southeast Asia. Um, this friend is, um, I mean an awesome person, like one of the coolest person, people you can meet, um,

It's true, right? Like, I mean, you're taking someone from unfortunate circumstances and then you're applying the benefits that you've had from your upbringing. We obviously are in the top 1% or whatever of the world in terms of the benefits and, you know, the circumstances we've had. And then you take someone that doesn't have that same privilege and

And then you're helping that person. You know, I mean, it's difficult because you always want to have your own DNA and all this stuff. And there's all this legacy stuff. But if you really want to make an impact on the world, I haven't really thought about this before. Like, this is really the first time I've thought about this is that you take someone who's not in the best circumstances who might have a shit life.

Because they don't have their parents and all this stuff. Who knows what would happen? There's a lot of bad stuff in the world, we all know. And then you say, you know what? I'm going to do my best to give this person a better opportunity. Better than, at least financially, what they would have experienced. That's noble, I think.

Of course, of course. Okay, I think also because my childhood, you know, and I think I haven't learned a lot from my parents because I was in boarding school when I was two years old. I told you last time. So two years old, I was in a boarding school. So that's why I feel like I want to be a better parent. My parents are awesome, but I think I could do better.

传统来说,你 save a soul 你管那么多干嘛呀,又不是自己人。

不是这样讲吗? We're all connected. I'm just saying 传统来说啊。 We're all connected. Everything that we do impacts everyone else. Because my stepfather, my stepfather raised me when I was two years old and he don't have any children because of me. So for me, blood is nothing and DNA is nothing. That's why for me, if I have my own children, it's not important.

Blood is nothing, DNA is nothing, but love is. But love is. Love is. That's so true. Cheers. Cheers to that. Love that. That's a great ending right there. Love transcends all, right? 我很想问一个问题。 你问。 我真的不好意思,我今天一直在打歌, 我觉得我声音好,我打歌声音有被录进去。 我根本都没听到。 Okay 啊。 可以删掉我们这段。 你不提到,我根本就没注意到。 你现在告诉大家,他就知道了。 It's okay. 其实都不知道的。 我故意 creepy 一下的。 没有,没有。

Anyway, love transcends all. That was beautiful. Jenny, thank you so much for coming back. Thank you for having me here. You are so real as a person. Yeah. Thank you. We're so analytical and we think these things, but you're real. It's just like, okay, this is it. This is real. I think we could do better.

Wait, wait, wait. What does that mean? You mean this podcast or you mean like your relationship? No, I mean everything. I think we could be more real, more honest, more open to ourselves. I think actually today we talk a lot and everything was good. But

I think we have a lot of more thoughts stuck inside us that we didn't share. That's why we'll have you back. And we'll talk more. Part three. And that is also why this podcast is called The Honest Drink. It's precisely what you just said. We all need to be more honest. Just with ourselves, we need to be more honest. We need to be more honest with what we're thinking, how we're feeling, and how we're being affected, and how we're affecting other people.

That's plain and simple. And the world we live in, we need to be more honest about it. And talk it out. Don't be afraid to feel. Don't be afraid to experience. Don't be afraid to say. And don't be afraid to love. Yes. Have you ever watched Friends or The Simpsons? Friends, the show? Friends, of course. There were 10 seasons of Friends. I watched all of them. And there were 236 episodes. So we look forward to 234 more.

Okay, yeah, I was wondering where you were going. Yeah, I know. It was kind of like a curveball right there. It was like... Okay. Anyway. Lots to talk about. Jenny, one more time. Let's cheers. Thank you. Thanks for coming back. All right. All right, guys. That was good. That was Jenny. I'm Justin. And I'm Howie. I'm Eric. Love you guys. Peace. Be good. Be well. Bye. Bye. See you. See you. See you.

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