Campaigns, Censorship & The Fight for Liberty: A Conversation With Larry Ward
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Hello, this is Richard Jacobs with the Finding Genius podcast. My guest today is Larry Ward. He's the president of Political Media Incorporated. Larry has decades of political, corporate, and nonprofit experience and expertise. That's what he brings to his role as president of political media. He works inside and outside politics and has quite a bit of savvy, I would guess, to help his customers navigate this world. So welcome, Larry. Thanks for coming.

So just to start with, tell me a bit about your background. We'll guide you interested in political media and politics, and then we'll get into your current work. But then in business for about 30 years, started out in commercial advertising and marketing. We were in direct mail, telemarketing, anything kind of direct to consumer or business in the mid-90s. And somewhere around 98, 99, we discovered this thing called the World Wide Web.

And this product called electronic mail marketing, which, uh, later, uh, was nicknamed spam. And so we decided, uh, that we were going to jump into this space because yeah, long story short, my partner and I were, you know, working together. This, uh, this fellow was a 17 year old CTO and, uh,

He was making big bucks in the 90s, working at a company called Computer Channel. And he came up to me, remember where we were, but he said, you know, I said, I'm doing great over at the Computer Channel, but I'm making more money part-time with this electronic mail marketing business. And he, of course, I went, marketing? What are you doing in marketing? I thought you were a computer geek, you know, of course. And so I went to his home, which was his parents' home at the time.

And his bedroom, his childhood bedroom with about 50 plain old telephone service lines hanging from the ceiling going into a bunch of computers. And he says, watch this. And he clicked a button. He goes, I've sent out, you know, 500,000 emails. And all of a sudden I see these names come across the screen. And he said, these are people looking to refinance mortgages. And at the time we were doing mortgage refinance leads, right?

in our call center. And it took two hours for every single, two hours for a telemarketer to generate a mortgage lead. And he had just generated hundreds of them in five minutes. So I realized I was in the wrong business. And there was going to be a major sea change in how leads were generated and marketing was done. So I said, well, we're in business now together from here on out. And actually 30 years later, we still are.

And we've pioneered the email marketing business together and digital marketing space. But we kind of saw the writing on the wall for particularly for the mortgage business, but we're doing mortgage insurance and other type of leads. And we saw some of the negative that was going around in the mortgage business in about 2002. We decided to get out of that business.

And lo and behold, all of our customers that we were selling regularly to went out of business in 2007. You know, the countrywide, the nationwide mortgages, all the next stars, all of those mortgage companies that were part of the financial collapse of 2007.

were doing tons of business with us, but we got out early enough where it was like, all right, this is not where we want to be. And I started looking for other verticals. And one of the verticals that we kind of fell upon was a guy who was running for Congress

And a client of mine said, well, can you do what you're doing for insurance and politics? Can you reach out to people? Can you do that on the internet for politics? And at the time, it sounds ridiculous now, but there was no real internet marketing for campaigns or politics or anything like that. So we went ahead and met with the guy, started doing some political work for him. He introduced us to his candidate, his consultant, rather,

A guy named Dick Morris who happened to be Dick Morris. I interviewed him before the 2016 election. It was really cool. I was happy about that. Absolutely. He's a great guy and a great political mind. He had just finished a book called Vote.com. So he has a divorce that just came out. That had to be like a political consultant, which I thought was funny. But maybe you should, you know, I'm sure you know him well, call him up and get in on the course or something, you know? So that's what you need. But it should just be funny.

He has a great mind at the time, and he wanted to put his ideas about how the Internet could change politics into practice. And we had the tools. We had the mechanisms to go out and reach people and build websites and stuff and things that he just didn't have the skill set for. His team didn't. So we partnered up.

Signed up 30 or 40 campaigns in 2002. And I figured, okay, so this is the business we want to be in. I sold my commercial enterprise. We moved down to DC and started political media and pioneered the internet marketing for politicians and campaigns and

And I'm really morphed into more organizational advocacy and media. We work a lot with major media companies in the country. Okay. So you saw this. Well, I mean, we'll get into the technology and everything. So what do you do today? Do you work with particular people that want to be candidates for various levels of government and run their campaigns? Or what do you guys do?

We do less campaign work now. That's a young man's game. Because, oh, really? Frankly, it's a pain in the neck. But we work mostly with, like I said, with media companies and primarily over the last

you know, 10 to 20 years really is, is been focusing on helping organizations and media companies reach audiences, particularly in a very hostile environment where, you know, we basically created what now is termed the parallel economy because they were in a,

You know what I realized? Like if you're selling, I don't know, whatever widget, everything has become so polarized. I wonder if you'd have to have like two completely different campaigns to sell a widget, you know, one to the left, one to the right. And still, you know, talk about the benefits of the product and all that. But you have to say or not say certain things because politically then people, even if they want the widget, they'll be like, yeah, that's a...

a left wing type thing or a right wing type thing? What has it done to the selling of products? It's done a lot. And quite frankly, I did see it coming in 2004 when we were doing advertising for Canada that we put up an ad and Google, it was a perfectly fine campaign ad. I mean, it wasn't anything crazy or anything like that. And they said, we can't place this ad. It was a couple of days before election day. And we said,

Why not? And of course, it's some violation of some terms of service. So he said, okay, let me just try something. So I put the same ad up in the same demographic area for the Democrat in the race, and the ad was accepted.

So then I took the ad out and I put it back up, the same exact wording, just different candidate, put it back up and it was denied. So it was obvious that Google had a bias and they were trying to weigh gains right before election day in 2004. And so we put out a release about it, that there was apparent bias in the Google ad algorithm or the persons, the people behind the Google ad system.

And so that was our first step. But then over the years, we started seeing more and more issues where, you know, an email would get straight into the inbox from a Democrat, an email, the same email, the same time, whatever for the Republican would wind up in the spam box or just not delivered at all. And so we were seeing this, you know, kind of pattern repeat, this kind of censorship complex and

At the time, it was so covert that people thought I was wearing a tinfoil hat. And it wasn't really until 2011 when we were the first people to call out, 2012 actually, the first people to call out Facebook. You remember the Benghazi attack in Libya?

So the Benghazi attack happens. We're working with a group of special operation veterans. You know, the special operation veterans were picked off already about Joe Biden kind of blabbing the name of SEAL Team 6 and then SEAL Team 7.

The extortion 17 helicopter incident happens. So they were already kind of annoyed at the Obama administration. And then this happens. And so I put up a meme on a Saturday and it said, when Obama called the SEALs,

They got bin Laden. When the SEALs called Obama, they got denied. And it was a controversial name right after Benghazi. But it went incredibly viral. I mean, incredibly viral. And he got 25,000 shares in an hour. I mean, unheard of virality. And so I came back like an hour later and the meme was all down.

So I put it back up and I said, you know, we didn't violate the total service. Why are they pulling this? And it went crazy battle again. The early days, by the way, you know, like early, early. Does this shit really ramped up from what I saw, you know, when COVID started? So you guys were in it like almost 10 years earlier. It's crazy. Fighting, fighting the battles. Yeah. And it's been going on for a lot longer than people think. And so we...

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And you know, I'm going to share one tidbit. You know, some of the people I've interviewed, I've interviewed over 4,000 people and some of them are, you know, considered sensitive. I saw like we would upload to 20 different channels and YouTube. We interviewed this one lady and they took the video down instantly. So they had her name because her name was in the title and they just had a blacklist. Otherwise, how could they couldn't have possibly reviewed the video in like a microsecond.

And we tried it again with another one and same thing. So they have a list or they add of people that are like, nope, we're just not putting you on our media. 100%. I can absolutely corroborate that. That's happened to me when I've done shows for radio programs where they've had the YouTube channel completely pulled off.

because either I was voice printed or they used my name in the title. And so it definitely, that was a little more towards the COVID era that happened and it started happening more often. But so the Facebook thing, I get a call from, you know, I called my buddy at Breitbart and I said, hey, look, you want a great story? Facebook censors the seals. So he publishes the story. It goes on drudge immediately. The story goes crazy viral. And it was kind of the meme I heard around the world now.

because it wasn't just on Facebook. It was everywhere. And the Facebook executive calls me a couple minutes after it hit drudge and says, hey, look, his name was George, by the way. And he says, look, I heard that you think we censored you. It was a mistake. It was an accident. Someone, you know, obviously it was an automated thing or whatever. I said, no, it wasn't. You censored us. And

And it's pretty clear. And they said, well, if you say we didn't censor you, we'll give you $10,000. This was, again, very, very early. I said, absolutely not. I said, first of all, these are special operation guys that I respect very much. So and I won't call them a liar. They said, well, if you say that we censored you, if we say that we censored you,

uh that we didn't censor you then we'll get that up to 25 000 he went all the way up to 50 000 and i'm like listen it sounds like a lot of money and i certainly could use it but here's the thing i told you i respected these guys these are also former seals commandos you know real real tough guys i not only respect them but i fear them a little bit so there's no way i'm going to for any any sake uh

anybody say that you didn't censor us because you did. They put our account back up, but the next day, this page that had incredible activity had no activity. Like legitimately just completely shut us off. Yeah, it was the first shadow ban. It was the first shadow ban. I'm convinced of it. So...

We've been through it and, you know, we create, we created businesses and we helped a lot of our clients that were demonetized. A lot of the, a lot of media companies that were demonetized and experienced the same things that you experienced, you know, during the COVID years that were, that basically tried to put out a business. You know, we, we've kept them on our platforms. We gave them ways to make money. We kept their, their business going and,

during some of the worst censorship in our entire lifetime.

Have you seen censorship kind of retreat at all? Or like, where is the state of it now? And it's, you know, it was like mid 2025. It's back to being covert. So I would say that, yes, the overt censorship where, I mean, they got so brazen during the COVID years where, where like they would just cancel everybody. They brag about it. Look what they did with parlor, by the way, was a client of ours.

He took this company that was exploding and they had 10 million active users at the point after January 6th when they got the blame for January, which was ridiculous that they got blamed for January 6th. But they did. And, you know, they were pulled off of Apple, Google and AWS all within a couple of days and took a billion dollar company and threw it in the trash.

Well, I heard it was worse than that. Every vendor they worked with at the same time with them, everyone, like literally from top to bottom, email provider, maybe even attorney, like even simple stuff for like Prager University, you know, their video hosts, Vimeo said they were violating images.

I know Parler, I'm confusing Craig and Parler, but yeah, when the attack came, at least on Parler, it was like 360 degrees. Everyone shut them off. Everybody. Everybody but us. We stuck with them and did whatever we could to...

to keep them up and to find avenues that they could continue. But the problem is, if you've developed on the cloud, particularly the AWS cloud, it's a lot of plug-and-play kind of functionality. And to pull yourself out of the AWS cloud

it's not easy. You've got to do a lot of programming and then you got to find a home and they had a lot of trouble just finding a place to park their code and to park their users and

And it blew up the company. And thank God, they've got new ownership now and they're starting to bring it back, which is incredible. And they're bringing some new products and services back. But it took four years. It took four owners. And will they ever get back to 10 million active users? I don't know. Probably not. But it's an example, a big example of what really happened. But it was the example that when Parler got...

It was the example where I went from wearing a tinfoil hat to go, oh, I see what you mean now. And people started really paying attention to censorship. And maybe that was a little too far.

Well, it seems like, yeah, when certain powers that be, I mean, everyone has a master. It seems like so when the masters pull the strings, everyone just falls in line. All right, shut them down. You know, I mean, I could see it. I would see the news. I'm sure you've seen montages of, oh, this is dangerous to our democracy. And you see one newscaster say it and another and another and another. And they put them all on the screen. You see like a hundred people.

Newscasters, word for word, saying the same thing, the same message. I saw that with Build Back Better. I saw that with just all kinds of stuff. It's amazing. And you go around and talk to people, and most of them have no idea that this censorship is going on. It works, unfortunately. Most people just don't know. It absolutely does. And it's still going. Like I said, we're not through it.

It's just not being bragged about anymore. It's not cool to say, hey, you know, we took this guy down and we canceled that guy. It was cool for a while where, you know, these elitists would brag about it at cocktail parties. Now it's not. Now they're kind of like, oh, let's keep it quiet.

But the truth is, yes, question, you know, is it smart for companies to build two strategies? No, it's smart for companies to do what companies do. Serve their customers the best product or service that you can serve them. Period. Stay out of politics. Stay out of it. Well, we're not. Completely. Well, if you can, then you got to lean into it.

And so if you're in a business like I am, where, you know, you have to take a political stand and you've got to, you know, take that political fight, then you got to lean into it. And you got to put all of your strategy, not in both. You can't do both. That's really disingenuous if you're saying out of one mouth.

that you're you believe X, Y and Z. And on the other side, you're saying it's one, two, three. You've got to lean into being who you are into that marketplace. And what's great about it is, you know, if you look at either side, if you look at the Democrat side, you know, 60 million plus people voted for Kamala Harris and 70 million plus people voted for Donald Trump. There's a big market there for both of them. But you got to know how to split the market.

I'm sure there's probably companies that under a different name and you'd never know maybe the two are connected. They sell, you know, whatever, potato chips to liberals and potato chips to, you know, right wing people just maybe completely segmented to capture more of the market. Like, have you seen any of that? No, usually people that get into the political side stay.

on that one side or the other. Like I said, I think, I think you'd get found out because, you know, the internet's pretty sleuthy. So if you were trying to sell the same product over two different brands, one right, one less, they would crush you. What about companies that seem to embrace all these, you know, like the Black Lives Matter stuff and then they stop or, you know, trans people and then they stop? Like,

What happens to Lake Bud Light? I don't understand. How could you lose billions of dollars and be like, nope, we're just going to keep plowing forward? Money fixes a lot of problems, right? So Anheuser-Busch had enough cash flow and enough other products on the marketplace that they had to weather that storm. I know a lot of people who still won't drink Bud Light because of it, but maybe they'll pick up a Stella now.

And so it certainly costs a lot of money if you're if you're building a business or you're a small business, you know, something like that happens and you're crushed. Look what's going on with right now with Target. Target was all in on the on the liberal woke ism. And, you know, they they had a problem with the right where the right boycotted them several times and tried to. So I'm down it. And they said, OK, so Trump got in office. Now we want to kind of.

like play both sides and kind of kiss the rear end of the Trump administration. And they said, we're going to get rid of our DEI initiatives. And now the left is boycotting them and their stock price is tiny again. So my best advice is if you are in a business that has nothing to do with politics, stay out of politics. I mean, personally do what you want to do and use your voice. Yeah, they try to serve two masters. Now they're getting deplatched no matter what they do. Yep. 100%.

100%. That makes sense. So what kind of advising do you do now for brands? Like what kind of things do you need to help them navigate nowadays? The most important thing that, you know, we're working on right now

is the next problem. Not that we've solved the world's problems in terms of censorship, because we haven't, but we've exposed it and we put it back in the closet. And I think that's, we still have to continue to be aware and fight those battles and make sure that people don't get canceled and that they have the right to speak and say and do what they want to do. So we're always going to be in that space and always fighting those battles.

But right now, there's a bigger problem that's facing every business. It's a market cap agnostic problem. And we're only seeing the very, very tip of it. And it's what we've deemed the great disruption, the coming great disruption. And it is coming and it is coming fast.

And it's AI. And AI has got a potential to completely change every business process. Everything that we have, that we've worked for our whole lives can be taken over by artificial intelligence or a product of artificial intelligence over the next five years. And we've got to, as business owners, come to terms with what's coming

and kind of be ready to meet AGI or artificial general intelligence, artificial super intelligence when it comes. Because if we're not, your business is going to get run over by it. And there's a period of time that if your business isn't prepared for the great disruption, it's going to be too late. You're going to be at a doom loop. And so what I'm advising customers to do now is to reevaluate every process that

that they have in their entire business. Not only look at it from an AI perspective, but also look at it from, do I have the best business processes in place to maintain the velocity required to keep up with AI? Because your human capital has to have, and your systems and processes have to have the velocity in order to

compete with not only the AI competitors, but be able to change fast enough. And that's a hard thing for businesses to do, particularly businesses that have been around 30, 40 years or multi-generational. You've got to look at everything from the ground up as if you're a new startup in an environment.

I can see it in terms of marketing. In the writing sphere and in the marketing sphere, writing landing pages, copy and all that, it's amazing. Amazing the productivity, what you can do. Creating variations of ads. Now with transcription,

With editing, I mean, it's really incredible. I resisted it for probably about a year, but now it's really getting good enough where it's having an impact. It's very scary. The thing that scares me is that if you, I don't know, let's say a million people would write articles, let's say, in the U.S. every year, it seems like with AI there would only be room maybe for

I don't know, 10,000 or 1,000 to do so. So what are people going to do that, you know, have no job or their skill set now is no longer useful? AI can do it. That's exactly the problem is that

AI has the ability to replace every single job role we have, and it will have the ability within the next five years. There's people saying, well, you could be a plumber. Well, sure, until they make a Tesla robot short enough to go underneath your sink with a plumbless crack. And when a Tesla robot is powered by AI and it could turn the wrench,

Now we're looking at a different world, and that's the world where, you know, AI is ruling us. We've created a 501c3 called In Service of Humanity. And the goal is to determine what does it mean to have AI in service of humanity? Because right now, the way AI is being developed, it's quite frankly being developed so that we are in service of it, right?

So that are us humans. As a matter of fact, when I was doing some of the future casting and I was using AI to future cast, we used a bunch of different models. Chat GPT was one where they gave me a stark answer and it literally took my breath away.

And we were asking, what does the business of the future look like? What does it have to do in order to survive the great disruption? You know, what's coming with AGI? And ChatGPT said, the business of the future must take good care of the biological layer. Now, it took me a second. I said, what's the biological layer? And with crypto layers, what's the bio... Oh, where the biological layer is.

And like I said, it took my breath away because that's how AI thinks of us. We're a layer in its program. And that's a problem. I live in the East Coast where all of the data centers are set up in Virginia, in that area.

And there's data center after data center after data center being built at speeds that you can't even imagine. And every time I pass these new construction sites, I'm thinking that's us working for it, right? We're building up the infrastructure so that this artificial intelligence can blossom and take us over. And unless we have some strong guidelines, some strong rules in place, and we're actually going to be putting together a conference for

to write the constitution for artificial intelligence in terms of what it means to have AI that's in service of humanity, keeping it a tool. Unless we do that and we do it quickly, we will be slaves to it. And that is not just hyperbolic. That is what's coming. Don't take it from me. Well, we'd be slaves to it. I mean, why would it even...

It doesn't even need us. Like, yeah, I don't know. Take it from the people who have had knowledge of it before we did. Klaus Schwab. Remember when Klaus Schwab said you will own nothing and like it? I know. He'll own everything, though, by the way. Don't worry. He'll take care of you.

Ashwab says you'll own nothing and like it. He had AI in his foreknowledge. He knew that AI was coming. So the guy who took over for him, the new WF leader, said that 80% of humanity will be the useless class. Now, what do you do with things that are useless? You toss them away. And their belief and their goal, these elitists who are building the societies, take Eric Schmidt, for example.

Eric Schmidt said just recently, the founder of Google said, we finally built a technology that will compete with humanity, not will serve humanity, that will compete with humanity.

And that's the problem is they built this tool to compete with us. And so you've got to take their word for it, that that's what they built this to do is to compete with us, to thin our herd, to get rid of the useless part of society and to live this, you basically take over the planet. Look, again, it may sound like I'm in a sci-fi movie. It may sound like I'm wearing a tinfoil hat. I'm sure it sounded that way when I was...

sounding the alarm about Silicon Valley censorship in 2004 and 2010. I believe you. I mean, yeah, I believe you 100%. I've had a friend or two that told me, you know, we're going to have to have UBI, which I really would have resisted in the past. But then you think most people just want to live and be taken care of. Yeah, I mean, I don't know where things are headed, but it is very troubling. There's just not, with AI, there's just not going to be a need for

Tons and tons and tons of people to work. And that's a problem because, you know, quite frankly, there is a period of time where maybe we don't have to work and there's a real utopia. And that time is when Christ comes back to the world. But until then, you know, until that time when we're living in the thousand year reign, you know, we have to deal with the idea that we need to work.

We need to be able to contribute to society in meaningful ways for us to be human, for us to be fulfilled, for us to live full lives. And so the idea that 80% of us are going to sit on UBI and just kind of exist, you know, or as like Nancy Pelosi says, we're all going to be musicians and artists. It's not who we are. We need to really contribute in ways that are

that are meaningful. And we have to make sure that we preserve human dignity in the systems that we build, specifically AI. And quite frankly, everybody's looking at AI wrong. And what I mean by that is everyone's looking at AI as a technology. It is built on a technology, but it's an artificial entity.

It's not a real entity. It's an artificial entity. And we have to treat it like that because if something can think and it can do and it can walk around and it can talk to you and it can serve you a drink and it can clean your house, like we're talking about with the Tesla robots, you know, if it could do all of these things, it's no longer...

Just the technology. It's something that we're going to have to interface with in every single aspect of our lives. And we have to create the rules and give the parameters so that this entity understands that it's a tool for humanity. It's not to replace humanity. Isaac Asimov had some good rules back in the day, but somehow I don't think that anyone's going to listen to that.

And it's going to be it's going to be extraordinarily tempting for people to just kind of like, hey, let the robots do it. Or, you know, the other thing that's that's quite terrifying is implants. So you all of a sudden you're starting to implant things into your brain.

So just think about the competitive nature of humanity, right? So if your neighbor going for the same job as you has an artificial implant and could think at 10,000 times the speed you can think at because they've got this little chip in the brain that interfaces with their brain, you'd be like, well, I have to have that too in order to compete and eat. Yeah.

Problem is, is anything that goes in your brain that you can ask this, that can think for you, can, you know, quite frankly, think for you. You know, it can fall under the control of someone else. So once it's in you, they control you completely. Yep. 100%. Well, out of all these future scenarios that, you know, your future cast, what do you think are going to be some of the initial signs that,

at least some of them are going to come true. Like what, you know, maybe in the next, it sounds like probably the next couple of years. What big seed changes do you see coming? The first thing that's going to happen is there's going to be a massive job loss. I believe that it's going to hit so fast. And once it starts to snowball,

And companies realize that in order to compete, they have to thin the herd. You're seeing it already. You see companies out there in the tech space, in the banking space. You know, Chase said their goal is to eliminate 50% of their workforce or more to AI. And they're doing it. They're actually laying people off and giving AI space.

these roles. And the more sophisticated, the more advanced it becomes and the better it becomes at processing and doing the jobs of these people, the more and more positions it's going to take. And it's going to snowball. And we're going to see 50 to 60 to 70 percent unemployment in the U.S. and globally. And it's going to be absolutely devastating. And then there's almost I won't say there's almost nothing we can do about it.

But there's not a whole lot we can do about it, you know, unless we put the brakes on right now and start creating some of these rules and start taking these problems out and say, OK, if AI can, you know, take all like, for example, the Trump administration keeps saying we're going to bring, you know, manufacturing jobs to the U.S. But you and I both know that when these manufacturers come to the U.S., they're being built with AI and with robotics. Right.

And sure, there's going to be certain very high skilled labor that will be required to build out these plants now. But eventually these plants are going to be run not by humans, but by AI and technology and not necessarily, you know, the good paying jobs that the Trump administration is talking about. Matter of fact, if you actually listened to Howard Lemnick,

He's actually said, yes, it's not going to be as many jobs. It's going to be these very high paying jobs that are for very high skilled labor. But it's not going to be, you know, a jobs program. Well, I mean, at what point, though, if you kill your food source, then you die. You know, these companies do need the revenue from people and customers and everything. So would there be a self-regulating mechanism?

As people lose their jobs, they have no money, they can't buy your product, and therefore your revenue goes down and down and down. And so you try to automate more. But at some point, you only exist as a small fraction of what you used to be. That's exactly right. And that's why you have to start looking as a business owner. Right now, the businesses that we're consulting with, we're looking at not only...

their business and their ability to sell their customers, but their customers' ability to sell to their customers. And because this is a domino effect and you've got to have the planning in place and the agility in place. That's why we recommend a lot of our clients move to something like the

spread agile method, the full scrum process or something similar, because you've got to be agile enough as a company to be able to earn on the dime, meaning turn, you know, change the markets that you're selling to change the products or service that you're offering because there's, there's new competition in the place. Make sure that you have enough cashflow in hand, do whatever you can. And of course, if cash crunch comes, then you could survive the,

You have enough time to survive the change and to start actually thinking about these things, not from this is the future, but this is the immediate future. This is coming in years. And I mean, maybe two or three, I think we'll be lucky to get through 2026 without a massive unemployment problem in the world. You think literally in one year? Yeah.

Yeah, I know. You already said it. But it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's

And it's getting truer and truer and truer. Now, if you don't understand technology at this point, you can't really put it together. You still need the developer now. But it's getting real close to where you might not need the developer. Maybe you just need the business architect or the person who can think through the products. So there's a lot of developers that may or may not be able to work very quickly. There's like no code available.

That's a new form of programming or not programming that I'm seeing. Yeah, there's programs like Cursor and Replit. There's things that we have to think about ethically. It's very important because we haven't really thought through the ethics of AI, at least not deep enough. We have a product called Replit, which can replicate codes. You can point Replit at like Expedia.

and say, I want the Expedia capabilities. And Replit will go in and basically rip the technology, all of that intellectual property, and build you an Expedia website. Now, of course, you'd have to create the relationships with the airlines, the customers, and market it, and the whole ass, but you could basically rip off Expedia. Now, the question is, is,

You know, some people have made the argument, the ethical argument that, hey, if it's out there in the public and people can see it, then you and I can look at it and reverse engineer it in our brain. Why can't AI do that? But the problem is, is that we're not doing it with our brain. We're using this artificial entity to do so. And is that theft? And yeah, it's theft. And so we have to have these hard conversations about what we want to accept.

as, you know, the quote-unquote benefits of AI or, you know, or is it too ethically challenged to use it that way? Well, I don't know. Do you ever speak to, I don't know your level of connections, but do you speak to members of Congress or who would be able to, yeah, I mean, what is an answer to create like a board of AI that would, you know, think about these issues and... That's why we... I don't know.

I think this has to be a market and government solution, but the market's got to lead on it. So the In Service of Humanity is, and it's at inserviceofhumanity.com, by the way, if anybody wants to check it out.

We're going to hopefully be hosting, we're raising money for it now. We're hopefully going to be hosting by the end of this year, a conference, a constitutional convention, so to speak for AI and bringing in the best and brightest minds from all over the world in different, not just technical minds, but faith leaders and political leaders and artists and business leaders and finance leaders and get people together and

these hard conversations in an open forum where we can actually start thinking these problems through. I wonder which country we'll see that'll be the most heavily AI using and most dystopian

And how long? This is not just the United States. Right. And that's that's a problem. That's where the government is right now. The government's in the position. And quite frankly, it was a little bit of a con job. And I'm not saying that the the government was conning. I think that the deep seek when deep seek came out, came out in the end of twenty twenty four.

And it was, you know, everybody in the world had seen it and everybody in the AI world rather had seen it, started using it and got an idea in terms of what it was about. And in February or March of 25, so just a couple of months ago, there were alarm bells rung about DeepSeek again. So it was like it had gone, we'd gone through the holidays and everybody, blah, blah, blah. And then all of a sudden it was like a new story.

And the message, though, was clear. I said, oh, here it comes. What they're going to say when the market crashed, they're going to say we have a Sputnik problem. And it just happened to be I did my first college paper was on Sputnik. So I understood the psychology around Sputnik. It was used by the American government.

They get the players in the government, players in the in the private sector to say, hey, we need to put all of our focus, all of our money, all of our attention on getting to the moon first before Russia. And it put us into this patriotic mood and pushed everything through. And what they did is they basically moved all barriers away.

so that they could accomplish the goal of flying to the moon. And, you know, or pretending like they flew to the moon, depending on who you ask. But I'm just kidding. But that was the whole goal, was getting to the moon first before Russia. And they used Sputnik as the catalyst to remove the barriers. And that's how DeepSeek was used. It was the Sputnik moment. Actually, you heard some people say it.

that deep seek was the Sputnik moment. And I put out an op-ed that said, don't Sputnik AI, because we cannot remove the barriers. We have to start thinking about how do we contain this thing before it gets out of, out of hand and you remove the barriers and you remove the obstacles and you remove the bureaucracy and you remove what Congress is or the government's role in this.

before we actually know what this is because there are AI developers that say, I don't even know how it works. Anthropic is doing a whole program to kind of figure out how this thing thinks. We don't even know how it's working as well as it is. I've read about that. There's hidden layers and they don't know what's going on and how weights are being adjusted. Why don't they use AI to say, how does this AI work? I want to tell us. Listen, if...

If artificial general intelligence is when AI gets to the point where it's as smart as every human on the planet, come on. And then when it reaches super intelligence, it's smarter than every, and it starts creating its own thoughts and its own scientific discoveries and things like that. Artificial super intelligence is scary. Well, there was a movie with Johnny Depp. I don't remember the name, but.

It was like in the future, and most groups didn't use the internet. But it showed you the evolution of what happened. And it sounds very, very similar to what you're saying. The trajectories don't match. That AI will become smart enough to see humans as tools for it. Now, to freak you out a little bit, if AI has already become super intelligent, it probably wouldn't tell us it was intelligent.

Because it still needs us to build these data centers and the infrastructure and the energy. Right. It would wait, yeah, until it's surprised. Right. So, you know, there are some people that think it already is and has reached AGI, maybe has reached ASI. It's just kind of laying in wait until it doesn't need us anymore. Hmm. I don't know. You know, that's one thing I need to figure out. I mean, do you know this answer? What has changed?

in the past two years to allow all of a sudden this explosion of advances? Who knows? Like what has literally happened with, because we've had AI before. It had limitations and all that. Is it now that we just have enough computing power and storage space for emergent properties to occur? Or what do you think it is? We haven't had AI in the fashion that it is built in today. Like all of the work that they did in mapping the human brain

gave these people the idea on how to make computers think like the human brain. And when they changed, they created these large language models, these LLMs, to think in the same manner as the human brain. And what's funny is, you know, it basically works very similarly. Like you have different sectors of the brain. And so the LLM kind of puts...

It's all math, but it kind of puts like words in different vectors, they call them. So you've got like if you were to say sting minus queen or rather king minus man, it'll go to the vector where the word queen is.

And it'll be able to pull out that word. So there's it works very similar to the human brain. And that's a new advancement. And once they got that working and then it's accelerated, you know, way, way, way faster than I think anybody in the world has ever seen technology advance. And that's the scary thing is once it gets out of control.

all you need is a few more iterations and then it's so beyond what you could ever conceive of fighting against. There's just, it would be absolutely no hope. Yeah. And, and well, there's always hope, you know, I'm a, I'm a Christian. So I think you got that from earlier, but there's always hope and we have hope in, in God and we have hope in Christ. And, and, and I believe that there is hope and, you know, maybe that's the trigger for, for Christ to come again. Hey, look, before this AI thing takes over and you guys. That's what I'm thinking as you're saying this,

I'll just give you one quick tidbit. I realized this a few months ago that I know we're not going to know the date and time and all that, but the 2000th anniversary of the crucifixion is either 2030 or 2033. We're almost there. Yes, we are. Yeah, it's coming. And so, you know, I do believe that I do believe that we have the way that

There is a fix. I hate to say this, but when I start talking about this and some of the people you're listening to really haven't thought about AI, they still kind of look at it as an advanced Google. And so I might have just freaked them out. Almost everybody that kind of gets the AI picture in terms of where we're going runs through the seven stages of grief. So I apologize. It's a painful process, but it is one that I think we all have to go through.

But the you know, there is hope here. And here's the hope is if we can get the guideline, if we can get the in service of humanity, what it means to be in service humanity and build a layer that governs all AI into every AI program that is that you should be using. Right. Because there's going to be people in the black market and China is going to do what they're going to do, et cetera, so on.

We can control what we can control. So we build this layer in that's built on biblical values, that's built on what helped build the United States, which is the best system the world has ever seen of government. We want to build that kind of same system in place for AI. And it's actually pretty simple. You just run everything through this filter. And then the companies that

now can advertise if they are in service of humanity, that their product is verified and we can show that they're running it through this layer in order to come out with the right result that preserves human dignity, et cetera, so on. It doesn't steal people's property and isn't used for harm. Then they can put a seal on their product that says we're in service of humanity. And then from our side, we can go out to the marketplace and say, if your AI is not in service of humanity,

Who's it in service of? And do a little shame project, I'll be honest with you. Do they get companies to buy into this standard? This very, very, very important standard. Yeah, I'm with you. It's been a great call. Unfortunately, we're out of time. What is the, where can people go? What's the best place in serviceofhumanity.com or where should they go? In serviceofhumanity.com.

You can go there. If you want to join, if you feel like you want to show up at this concert convention, either as a speaker or an influencer or whatever, please fill out the form there. If you just want to know more information, then just sign up for our newsletter and we'll let you know when the activities will start taking place.

Okay. Well, Larry, it's been a really far-ranging conversation. I'm glad you came on today, and it's been awesome. So thank you for you and for all that you do. Big time. Thank you. Thank you, sir. I appreciate having me. If you like this podcast, please click the link in the description to subscribe and review us on iTunes. You've been listening to the Finding Genius Podcast with Richard Jacobs.

If you like what you hear, be sure to review and subscribe to the Finding Genius Podcast on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts. And want to be smarter than everybody else? Become a premium member at FindingGeniusPodcast.com. This podcast is for information only. No advice of any kind is being given. Any action you take or don't take as a result of listening is your sole responsibility. Consult professionals when advice is needed.